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Dr. Drew
NFL`s Colin Kaepernick`s Anthem Protest; New Trial Granted Because a Juror Was a Felon; Woman Calls Police Saying that Chris Brown Pointed Weapon at Her; Anthony Weiner Under Investigation by Administration for Children Services
Aired September 01, 2016 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(START VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: San Francisco quarterback Colin Kaepernick is behind a controversial moment in a football season that hasn`t even kicked off yet.
The 28-year-old chose not to participate in the national anthem at the start of a preseason game Friday.
This photo captures players and staff standing as jersey no. 7 sat silently on the sideline. Kaepernick says he was protesting systemic racism. He
later told nfl.com, I am not going to stand up to show pride in a flag for a country that oppresses black people and people of color.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DREW PINSKY, DR. DREW ON CALL SHOW HOST: Just hours away, will the San Francisco 49ers quarterback, Colin Kaepernick, sit or stand during the
national anthem tonight? Take a look at this.
(START VIDEO CLIP)
COLIN KAEPERNICK, SAN FRANCISCO 49ERS QUARTERBACK PLAYER: I will continue to sit. I am going to continue to stand with the people who are being
oppressed. To me, this is something that has to change, and when there`s significant change and I feel like that flag represents what it supposed
to present and this country is representing people the way it`s supposed to, I`ll stand.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Joining me, Mark Eiglarsh, attorney, Spirit, psychotherapist, Jessie Jane Duff, Gunnery Sergeant United States Marines, retired. The
49ers are in San Diego where it is coincidentally salute to the military night at the stadium. CNN reporter, Paul Vercammen, is at the game. Paul,
what is the reaction down there?
PAUL VERCAMMEN, CNN REPORTER: Well, Drew, right now, it is sort of muted because the game has not started, but never will so many eyes be on one
player for a preseason game before the game even begins. To give you a sense of what things are like there, I`m going to talk to Jose and I`m also
going to talk to Jimmy. Jose, you think that tonight you want to see Kaepernick stand, why?
JOSE: I want to see him, you know what, in the game day, because you know what, he represent a lot of the sports, and you know, in the field, he`s
supposed to have respect for the children and military people. I definitely believe that, you know what, and I think that what he thinks to
the people, and that`s really nonsense, and I condemn that one.
VERCAMMEN: Okay. We`re going to get another opinion. Jimmy, ex-marine. You, of course, fought for the flag. Your thoughts on Kaepernick. Should he
stand?
JIMMY, EX-MARINE: I think he should do what he`s doing. Reason being, I was in marine corp and also a police officer, and during that time as a police
officer, on my day off, I got stopped, pulled over, and was harassed until I showed my badge. You know, why do you tell me? Like, dude, this is
America, why do I have to acquiesce like this?
So he has a platform. That`s what he wants to use. More power to him. Me, myself, I stand because it was ingrained in me when I was in the military.
I tear up every time I hear the star spangled banner, so he has the right because we fought for him to have that right.
VERCAMMEN: I thank you so much for your insights, Jimmy and Jose. Get back to your tailgating. One more thing about all this you must understand and
Jimmy was talking about this being a policeman.
Colin Kaepernick also had been wearing some socks that portrayed police as pigs and he came out on Instagram and said, look, I have two uncles and
friends who are police. What I`m condemning is people policemen who put other officers at risk because of their violent behavior.
That`s what Kaepernick came out on Instagram and said today. Highly anticipated as I said, pregame national anthem. Back to you, Drew.
PINSKY: All right, Paul. Thank you. Great report. Now, former senior airman, Brian Kolfage, I believe it is, lost both legs and arm during the
Iraq war in 2004. He put a recent Facebook post directed at Colin Kaepernick. It`s receive more than 50,000 shares. We`ve got an audio
recreation. This has been edited for time. Take a listen.
(START VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Next time I hear the national anthem, I`ll be sure to stand for both of us since you feel that you`ve been oppressed. We live in
America, the land where no one is truly oppressed.
If you want to see the real meaning of oppressed, I suggest you enlist in the military and travel abroad to the middle east where women are beaten
and killed in honor if they are raped, where 6-year-old girls are forced to marry men in their 60s. You know nothing of what oppression is.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Jessie, your reaction to this controversy?
[19:05:00] JESSIE JANE DUFF, GUNNERY SERGEANT UNITED STATES MARINES, RET: I`m just -- I just think that Kaepernick is a buffoon. I mean, he has the
right to sit, obviously, the NFL has set a precedence now that they -- they don`t seem to want to enforce that he should be about the team. There is no
"I" in team.
So, let`s go back to basics here. He is representing the San Francisco 49ers. Okay. He has the right to sit. But when I`m at work, I cannot hold a
protest without being escorted off the premises. What it boils down to is freedom of speech is all within the freedom of off your post.
He is on duty when he is giving these press conferences, he`s doing it within the realm of being with the San Francisco 49ers. That`s his job. His
job is to go there, play football, and do what he is supposed to do.
He knew he was gonna have to stand for the national anthem all these years when he went to the NFL and now, he`s got this full outrage. Where was his
outrage when he was a starting quarterback for the 49ers that led him to the Super Bowl. Where was it then?
PINSKY: Yeah. And not only that Jessie, but all during the last year, you know, a lot of action going on in our country, he did not seem to be
participating in any meaningful way. We don`t know. He might have had some feelings about it.
But, Mark, Jessie brings up really an important point, which is, yes, the military personnel fought for his right for the first amendment, but that
doesn`t mean that the 49ers or the NFL shouldn`t step in and use a little muscle as an employer.
MARK EIGLARSH, ATTORNEY: You know, they shouldn`t, Drew. Because you don`t lose your first amendment rights merely because you`re playing football.
Here`s what people need to understand. I`m addressing those who think this is outrageous and offensive.
By the way, those who feel that way, you`re right. Those people who think that it`s not offensive and outrageous, you`re right too. You know why?
Because you have your freedom of speech. We have our freedom of speech because our military fights for it...
PINSKY: Wait, Mark, Mark, Mark...
EIGLARSH: ... it`s not just for the speech making you warm and fuzzy. No, let me finish, Drew. This is important.
PINSKY: I don`t disagree with you. Finish, go ahead.
EIGLARSH: Fight for what is right.
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: You have right as an employer to require your employees to behave within the bounds of a culture of your -- of your employment, right? And if
the NFL, if they`re gonna stand for -- if they`re gonna stand for something that have a military night at the stadium, shouldn`t they put some teeth
behind that in their employees? I`m just saying. Or should they say...
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: Go ahead.
EIGLARSH: What they are saying is our military, we thank you for giving us the right to free speech, which doesn`t just mean the warm and fuzzy kind.
It`s the kind that we all find outrageous and offensive. And that means get ready that our military fights for our rights including Kaepernick`s right
to sit during the national anthem.
PINSKY: I agree with you 100 percent.
DUFF: Nobody is disagreeing with that, but he`s at work. Okay, so let`s be real here. If I go have a sit-down protest at my work and I make a
statement about let`s say pro-life or pro-choice, I`m not moving out of the seat until this country chances it`s stance on this, I`m gonna be escorted
off the premise because I`m on my...
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: Hold it, guys. Hold it. Don`t make me turn your microphones off. Don`t make me do it. Spirit, I want you in here. Spirit, he`s my concern. I
agree with both -- I agree with mark that when you`re outrage or you`re supportive, that`s good. That`s what the country is built on. My problem is
I don`t really understand what he wants? What does Kaepernick want? He`s not made a stand or statement.
EIGLARSH: Awareness.
PINSKY: About what? Bad cops? What does he want? I have no idea. Spirit, help me.
SPIRIT, PSYCHOTHERAPIST: Well, what he wants is change, Dr. Drew.
PINSKY: What? Of what? What needs to be changed?
SPIRIT: Listen, I don`t think that he did this -- hear me, he didn`t do this for all of America to say something about him. What he said was on
that night, he was fed up. He could not identify with what the national anthem represented, and so he did not choose to stand and honor the words
that were there.
PINSKY: Fine. And then he got on camera and said things have got to change. What? I just want to know. I`d like to know. Maybe he`s got something
constructive.
SPIRIT: It is hard as a person of color to stand up and pledge allegiance. He was not talking about the flag. If you read the entire national anthem,
all of them, not just the first stanza, but all of them, the lost stanzas that you don`t even talk about...
PINSKY: Yeah.
SPIRIT: ... you will see that it was not created for people of color. In fact, it disrespects people of color...
DUFF: Oh, it does not.
SPIRIT: What he is saying here -- Yes, it does. Look at the third stanza specifically.
DUFF: Oh, please.
SPIRIT: You can say, oh. Do you know what it is?
PINSKY: Spirit, given this country -- hold on. Given that this country`s had a problematic...
SPIRIT: You can`t quote it, can you?
PINSKY: Did have a difficult -- not strong enough language. We have a history that we are not proud of, that therefore, what, we will never be
able to stand up for the flag in this country, ever?
SPIRIT: No, no, that`s not it. That`s not what he`s saying. What he`s saying is we live in a country that says if you want change, then do
something to effect it...
PINSKY: All right.
SPIRIT: ... he is using his profession and he is using his...
EIGLARSH: Drew...
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: I have to stop. The conversation will go on. Later on, Chris Brown`s new song dropped today after he went public with a rant about his
harassment. Back after this.
[19:10:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(START VIDEO CLIP)
KAEPERNICK: I have great respect for men and women who fought for this country, family and friends fought for this country, and they fight for
freedom, they fight for the people, they fight for liberty and justice for everyone, and that`s not happening.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: That is San Francisco quarterback, Colin Kaepernick, who says he will continue to sit during the national anthem tonight. Back with Mark
Eighlarsh, speaktomark.com, Spirit, and Jessie.
Kaepernick was adopted by a white couple when he was a baby. His biological father is black, his biological mother is, I believe, is white. Her name is
Heidi Russo. She is white and she tweeted, quote, there`s ways to make change without disrespecting and bringing change to the very country and
family who afforded you so many blessings.
She backed up today and tweeted in a follow-up, I`d like to be clear on the issue, I absolutely support Colin standing up for what he believes in,
racism is alive and well in America. Spirit, she`s walking both sides of the street there, isn`t she?
SPIRIT: Yeah. I mean, and so some of it she can relate to, and some of it she can`t, and that`s just like most of us in America. We`re never all
going to agree. And so we have to decide where we place our line. And that`s what it all comes down to and what he`s doing tonight.
[19:15:00] PINSKY: Spirit, is he wanting -- is he responding to the shooting of an unarmed black man and sort of reaction to that over the last
year, and so why he did not say something sooner, and why articulating that clearly? I`m frustrated by that.
SPIRIT: Well, you know, I think it`s broader than that, Dr. Drew. I think what he said is not just black people, but people of color. And what is
happening is people are getting tired. Everyone is reaching a boiling point, if you will.
You have had many people who have said let me remain silent on this and focus on doing my job, but there comes a point where your job goes out the
window because you are human first, and you have empathy for what is happening with people that look like you.
PINSKY: All right. Mark, go ahead, you have something to say here.
EIGLARSH: The issue is not could he do it another way, is it not genuine? He could say, our flag stands for the Kardashians, and I will not do
anything -- I will not stand until they are off the air.
That`s outrageous, but you know what? It`s his right to be outrageous. That ensures that our rights are here when we say something that somebody
doesn`t agree with.
PINSKY: But, Jessie, I`m not sure that`s the issue, though, is it?
DUFF: No, no. The issue is this...
EIGLARSH: It is for Jessie who took exception with what he said.
DUFF: No, it`s not.
EIGLARSH: It if for Jessie.
DUFF: No, you don`t know what my opinion is, so let me clarify very quickly here for you. The -- don`t speak on my behalf. The fact is, he is a right
to do what he wants, absolutely, but he`s at work and the NFL or the 49ers at that point decide that he`s become a distraction to the team and there`s
anything in his clause that clarifies that, he can be -- whatever is in his contract, I`m not sure what`s in those NFL contracts, but I know in the
NBA...
(CROSSTALK)
DUFF: ... let me finish. In the NBA, they are required to stand and in the...
SPIRIT: No, they are not. But encouraged. There`s a different. They are encouraged.
EIGLARSH: The ratings are gonna be...
DUFF: Let me clarify -- let me clarify. Both of you, I did not interrupt either of you. So show some respect also to me.
SPIRIT: You interrupted me.
PINSKY: One at a time. I`m turning everyone`s microphones off. I`m turning everyone`s microphones off because I can`t hear you talking over each
other because people turn the channel when you talk over each other. So let`s do it one at a time. Spirit, do you have something to say? Then I
will go to Jessie.
SPIRIT: Yeah.
PINSKY: Go ahead.
SPIRIT: At the end of the day, the NFL does not require their players to stand. They encourage them. And each individual team in this league has
come out throughout this week and taken their own stance on this. And so what I want to say is, you know, we have to be respectful across the board.
We can`t ask for respect in one area and then snicker or be dismissive to other people`s positions in another area. I think it`s just not only
blasphemy but just outright outrageous for you to mirror one argument on one side and then act like you don`t understand the opposing argument.
PINSKY: Okay, Jessie. Jessie, your response.
DUFF: Okay. Absolutely. He`s disrespecting people with his comments, and yet we`re being told we need to respect his opinion. I`m sorry. If people
are offended by what he says, that is also their right. You can`t have it both ways here.
And the reality is in the third verse of the national anthem that you`re clarifying, that is no longer in there, was the talking about the core of
colonial marine...
SPIRIT: That`s no longer in there? It`s still there.
DUFF: ... that are British. That were British -- that were British black -- they were British black marines and they were talking about killing the
enemy. It was not in reference to slaves. That is the history of the national anthem.
SPIRIT: That is so not true.
DUFF: It is true.
SPIRIT: That`s so not true.
DUFF: Read your history.
SPIRIT: It`s our history, thank you.
PINSKY: Hang on. Mark, go ahead.
EIGLARSH: Okay. I respectfully disagree with Jessie who I did not interrupt at that point.
PINSKY: Thank you.
EIGLARSH: He`s not disrespecting anyone. He`s doing something. It is people`s reaction to what he`s doing that dictates how they are going to
feel. It`s on them. That`s what makes this country great.
PINSKY: Now, NBC analyst and former NFL player, Rodney Harrison, addressed this controversy in sports talk 790 in Houston. Let`s take a listen to
that.
(START VIDEO CLIP)
RODNEY HARRISON, FORMER NFL PLAYER, NBC ANALYST: I`ll tell you this, I`m a black man and you know, Colin Kaepernick -- he`s not black, okay? He cannot
understand what I say and what other young black men and black people face or people of color face on an every single basis.
And if he really wants to make change, sitting his butt down on the bench - - that`s not gonna change. That`s gonna get people very upset. He has to understand that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: And Spirit, he went on to suggest that Kaepernick used part of his ll million dollar salary to maybe start supporting black causes and where
he has been all this last year? I mean, it`s a pretty -- that`s the kinds of questions I have about this. It`s not about, for me, not about his right
to do this, it`s about what -- where`s he been? Why now? Why really putting teeth into this? There`s a lot of questions for him.
SPIRIT: Where`s he been? He`s been where every other American citizen has been. Let me say this, he does not have to speak for all black people or
all people of color. I think this is one of the biggest problems that we have in America.
We find one person of color, and think that they have to speak for their entire group. So when this man says that he is not black or he can`t
understand any of those things, he doesn`t have the right to tell somebody else what they are or what their experiences are or how they identify.
What he can say is as a black man, he does not speak for me, and that would be true in the same way he does not speak for this young man either.
[19:20:00] PINSKY: Okay. Is anybody got a burning last thoughts? Mark, you look a little bit like there`s something to say there. Go ahead.
EIGHLARSH: Just, well, to minimize the hate mail, let`s make it clear, I don`t know that I would advocate if he asked me, this is what you should
do, but I stick up for his right to do it.
PINSKY: All right. We are gonna leave it there. I think we all agree on that. No one is disagreeing with somebody`s right.
DUFF: He can do it.
PINSKY: Yeah.
EIGLARSH: Your viewers are. A lot of your viewers are.
PINSKY: That`s because they hate you, Mark. They hate you personally. There`s a lot of hate mail coming.
(LAUGHTER)
PINSKY: We love you, Mark. Thank you, guys. Next up, a convicted murderer wins a new trial because a felon was on the jury. And later, Chris Brown
cannot stop talking. See his latest social media rant about his arrest. Back after this.
[19:25:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(START VIDEO CLIP)
SHAYNA HUBERS, JAILED FOR MURDER: I shot him probably six times. His glasses were still on. He was twitching some more. I shot him a couple more
times just to make sure he was dead.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Shayna shot Ryan six times and called her mother before getting help for him.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Shayna Hubers to spend the next 40 years of her life in prison.
HUBERS: Threw me on the ground, I don`t have any serious injuries, but I could have had.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What I think happened in that apartment was a little more than cold-blooded murder.
HUBERS: I really loved him. It`s really messed up and we had to get into a physical fight, and that this had to happen.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Now a second chance for a convicted murder. Shayna Hubers will get a new trial because a felon was on the jury. Back with Mark and Spirit.
Joining us, Stacey Honowitz, a Florida prosecutor. Mark, they don`t run a criminal check of the jurors before the trial runs? That`s a waste of money
and time.
EIGLARSH: Well, you`re supposed to. Unfortunately, it did not happen, and so as a citizen who doesn`t love murder, I`m very disappointed with this.
As a trial attorney who is in court every day, I applaud the appellate court for having the courage to clearly let someone who is guilty go, but
to ensure that whenever we go to trial, our rights are protected. The system has to work fairly, and in this case, it did not.
PINSKY: Stacy, you agree with that?
STACEY HONOWITZ, FLORIDA PROSECUTOR: Yeah. I mean, honestly, Mark knows that the judge and the lawyers always ask the question, do you have any
prior convictions? Do you have any arrests? You hope, you pray that the jurors are gonna be honest with you, and we find in a lot of cases, that,
in fact, they don`t tell the truth.
So in this case, the appellate court, has to do what they did because this person was a convicted felon, and either lied to the court or just never
told the court that he was a convicted felon.
PINSKY: Now, the medial dubbed this woman the so called nose job killer because of what she said during her interrogation. I`ll play it for you.
(START VIDEO CLIP)
HUBERS: I couldn`t stand to watch him twitch. And one of our last conversations that we had that was good was that he wants my best friend,
who is a dentist, to do his veneers, and wants to get a nose job. Just that kind of person. And I shot him right there. I gave him his nose job he
wanted.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINKSY: Spirit, that is such bizarre, distorted thinking. I don`t know where that came from, do you?
SPIRIT: I was sitting here, I never seen that clip before, just totally in awe, Dr. Drew. This is beyond bizarre for me.
PINSKY: Yeah. This is a super duper sick woman. Now, Mark, what`s the defense going to do differently? There`s no new evidence. There`s no new
witnesses. There`s tapes like that out there. Why not just throw in the towel or negotiate something?
EIGLARSH: Well, Drew, lucky for you, I have an inside source, so I know. They are going to hire an expert that they didn`t have before, David
Copperfield, to make that video disappear.
(LAUGHTER)
PINSKY: Listen, there`s more, though. There`s more. Stacey, 11 days before she shot her boyfriend, Shayna sent this text to her friend. When I go to
the shooting range with Ryan tonight, I want to turn around, shoot and kill him, and play like it`s an accident. Stacey, as a prosecutor, come on now.
HONOWITZ: Listen, this is -- I mean, this is, like, you know, a prosecutor`s dream case when you have text messages like that. I mean, when
you think about it and people, if they did not follow this, really her behavior almost mimics that of Jodi Arias, the things that she was doing
during her interrogation, she was dancing, almost -- almost identical to the things that she was doing.
And like I said, this is a prosecutor`s case, clearly as Mark said, there`s going to have to be some kind of magic going on in order for her not to be
convicted a second time.
PINSKY: Okay, Mr. Defense Attorney, you`re call upon to make the magic and you can`t call David Copperfield.
EIGLARSH: Okay. I`ll answer the question for real. What I`ll do is I explain to my client, it`s not hypothetical. You were convicted. You looked
out. You got a technicality because that guy, he did not remember that he was a convicted felon. He decided this based upon the evidence.
They found you guilty. We have an opportunity to put on some knee pads, get down on the hands and knees and beg the prosecutor and hopefully they are
fair as Stacey Honowitz, and I say that in quotations, and they will give us maybe a lot less time and a decent plea bargain that we can live with.
PINSKY: But, Spirit, what are we sending back out on the streets here? Again, we don`t know, we have not looked at her, but, you know, there`s got
to be borderline rage, there`s got to be all these weird distortions. This is somebody that can become, given the right impulses, given the right
inputs, horribly dangerous.
SPIRIT: She already is horribly dangerous.
PINSKY: She is.
SPIRIT: I mean, what words would I not throw out here, Dr. Drew? Sociopathic, psychotic. I mean, keep her off the streets.
PINSKY: Yeah, well, but I want to get in the weeds a little bit because Stacey brought up our friend, Jodi Arias. We all through conversations
analyzed that in that case, we decided she had sociopathy or psychopathy maybe, and borderline qualities which, you know, both those things together
seem to be going on here with this lady.
So, let`s keep the conversation going. And later, I got something to tell you about. But I got some analysis of the Anthony Weiner and his sexting
problems. I`ll get into that. We`ll be back after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(START VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Shayna Hubers` 911 call to police shortly after she shot and killed Ryan Poston.
HUBERS: I cooked, I cleaned, I made the bed, I did the laundry, I ran errands.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Said she was going to claim insanity, but then she said she was too smart because she has an IQ of Einstein, and so she`s
going to plea for the wife battered syndrome.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Shayna Hubers claimed she shot her boyfriend in self-defense. Jury did not buy it. They gave her 40 years. Now, the conviction`s been tossed
out because one of the jurors, well, he forgot that he was a felon, and he also couldn`t read, so his girlfriend filled out the paperwork, and it`s
all based on what the potential jurors report. Nobody checked his background.
I`m back with Mark, Spirit, and Stacey. So, Mark, I guess my question, I`ll ask Stacey the same question after you answer, should defense attorney
allow her to take a stand this time? Would that make a difference?
EIGLARSH: Well, it just depends. I can`t say that without speaking with her, seeing what her testimony would be, but, you know what, I think she
almost has to. I think in a case of self-defense, your future hinges upon your ability to look them in the eyes and say, I was in fear. And they
either will believe you or not.
PINSKY: I`m gonna put Jodi, Jodi on the stand. After all, we watched her for days and days and days, did that make a difference for Jodi Arias, you
think, in a positive way?
EIGLARSH: I don`t think so. I thought she was horrible. I couldn`t wait for her to get off the stand and have her convicted. But, you know, that`s Jodi
Arias. This is a different girl. I don`t think it`s gonna make a difference, but she just has to do it.
And you know what? One thing I got to say, she may get convicted again. Our job as defense lawyers is to do the best possible job we can for our
client, and then let the jurors do the rest.
PINSKY: Stacey, she may get convicted again. I mean, she`s got to be convicted again, right?
HONOWITZ: She better. You know, as trial lawyers, we never make predictions, Mark knows that. You could think you have a locked case, then
you`re surprised about what happened, but I think in this case, it`s a pretty sure bet that she will. You know, a prosecutor likes when defendants
take the stand.
PINSKY: Why?
HONOWITZ: In this case because they have an opportunity to cross examine. You know, when a police officer sometimes just talking to them -- they are
not cross examining them, they just want to get the story, and so we have the opportunity to catch them in a potential lie.
And in this case, because her behavior is so odd and the things that she said in text messages and what she did and she said that she has to take
two tests, and no concern when she was arrested. This, again, is something that a prosecutor can really work with.
And, as I said earlier, I think it`s gonna take more than David Copperfield to try to get her acquitted in this case.
PINSKY: And, again, we`ve only been reviewing some of the evidence. They reviewed more than 50,000 texts. There were 20,000 plus Facebook chats. The
prosecution revealed that for every 50 texts she would send the man she shot, he would respond with one. So, Spirit, that`s stalking behavior,
right?
SPIRIT: Oh, absolutely. I mean, this was probably a relationship that she was having in her head more than anything, Dr. Drew, and she just decided
now I want to be done. It is just horrible that we`re wasting taxpayer dollars and the idea that she might get off is mortifying.
PINSKY: Yeah. In jail, she started seeing a psychologist. He testified for the defense, but it`s interesting what he said. I`m not sure the defense
benefited from this. Take a look.
(START VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She would vacillate between being very emotional and tearful and then she would become very subdued and almost flat. What she
reported there was some sexual trauma in her childhood. She had a history of alcohol abuse, prescription medication abuse. I offered the diagnosis of
post-traumatic stress disorder.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: So, Spirit, there for the defense, addiction, sexual trauma, PTSD, flipping and flopping. He talked about a sort of characteristic borderline
feature. But I don`t want anybody with borderline disorder to be, you know, affected by this woman because that`s not all this is. This is on top of
that...
SPIRIT: Oh, no.
PINSKY: Sociopathy, high IQ, this is somebody who is a dangerous mix.
SPIRIT: Very much so. I mean, this is a dangerous cocktail, Dr. Drew, and if he was the defense, basically, what he was saying is, listen, I still
have an ethical obligation here to tell you exactly what is happening with this young lady.
So what he said were there were multiple diagnoses with substance abuse. We have some co-morbid issues here. Keep her safe by keeping everybody else
safe too.
PINSKY: Right. I guess he`s trying to create some sympathy for her, but, you know, yes, she`s mentally ill, but she`s mentally ill plus. That`s the
problem, Mark.
EIGLARSH: It`s also to explain away some of the bizarre behavior. I`ll call an expert like this not necessarily to negate their guilt, but to explain
away some bizarre behavior and give a reason for the jurors to think, well, maybe it`s not because of guilt, but it`s because of something else.
PINSKY: And, Stacey, one more bit of evidence. The man she shot was set to go on a date with Ms. Ohio the night he was killed. So, there you go.
Another piece of evidence stacked up that you as a prosecute can use.
SPIRIT: Jealousy.
HONOWITZ: Yeah, really, when you think about it, look at the correlation between this and Arias. It was the same type of thing. She was guilted, she
was obsessed with him, she stalked him. He had a new girlfriend. It`s the same situation here.
PINSKY: Yup.
HONOWITZ: There`s so much evidence in this case. There`s motive. You have everything tied up in a nice neat package for another conviction.
PINSKY: Right. Humans have patterns. I really think this is an exact mirror image of Jodi Arias. I really do. The fact that he really was done and
going out with another woman, that was it. That`s when she actually crashed.
HONOWITZ: Over the edge, yeah.
PINSKY: Next up, Chris Brown, he`s at it. He`s taking a case public to social media after his arrest this week. We`ll be back after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(START VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All girls are crazy for Chris Brown.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The LAPD said a woman did call police for help prompting the law enforcement a response. Baylee Curran tells TMZ she is
the one who called 911, saying during a party at his house, Brown pointed a weapon at her.
BAYLEE CURRAN, CALLED 911, SAYING BROWN POINTED WEAPON AT HER: He pulled out a gun and he said, get the F out of here and threatened me with it.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: As police presence grew, the singer posted videos on Instagram.
CHRIS BROWN, SINGER: Barricaded myself in my house. Have you seen my house?
MARK GERAGOS, CHRIS BROWN`S ATTORNEY: My client`s position is that we`re cooperating. There`s no truth to it, and we`re going to let it play out.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He`s gonna be booked for assault with a deadly weapon.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: He is accused of threatening a woman with a gun like she suggested, but that`s not slows down Chris Brown. Take a look on what he posted on
Instagram.
(START VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: Yo. All this (beep) going on, man, I`m just trying to keep and turn the cheek.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: He released a new song called "What Would You Do" less than 24 hours after he is arrested. He is accused, as I said, of threatening a
woman with a gun. Back with Mark, Spirit, and joining us, Jasmine Simpkins, reporter for hiphollywood.com. Now, Mark, I actually spoke to Mark today,
and, you know, he felt like this woman had so many holes in her story. She didn`t go to the emergency room when she ran out of there after someone
threatened her with a gun. She didn`t run to an attorney. She run to TMZ, right? I mean, the...
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: And Mark, the police went into the house. They searched. They looked for gun. They looked for drugs. They looked for some piece of
jewelry at issue or something. No evidence, no nothing.
EIGLARSH: Yeah. Listen, the trial`s not about the truth. I told you that. It`s about, you know, what the evidence can show, and if -- this may have
happened or may not have happened. The absence of her going to the emergency room, just said earlier, why would she go there?
But there`s not a gun that or a murder weapon -- again, he could have gotten rid of it, but there`s no corroboration to it, things that are
inconsistent. That will prove to be difficult for the prosecution who has to prove this case beyond a reasonable doubt, not just maybe a probably.
PINSKY: And, Jasmine, my understanding is there`s allegations that somebody filed a a report against her for doing something similar, is that right?
JASMINE SIMPKINS, REPORTER FOR HIPHOLLYWOOD.COM: Actually, there`s several reports against this woman. More information is coming out about this
woman. So back in 2013 at the Plaza Hotel in New York City, it was not in Los Angeles.
Police are investigating actually an incident there where she took a girl`s purse, a woman`s purse, an expensive bag, rather, a Louis Vuitton bad, and
inside the woman had cash, it`s 200 dollars. So, the police are investigating her for this crime, and that was two years ago.
There`s also a man, Safari, whose her friend, whose claiming that she stole a Rolex watch from him a year ago and he has not spoken to her since. So,
there are reports coming out of this woman, actually the shady past and some theft involved and some other things that are coming out about her.
PINSKY: And Spirit, you know, I mean, it`s an interesting case in point on the heels of a domestic violence, and I think he was convicted, right?
Chris Brown conviction. Really...
SPIRIT: He said he`s done. He`s off probation and all of that stuff.
PINSKY: Not only that, but allegedly he`s really been working hard on this, but...
SPIRIT: He has.
PINSKY: ... but people that commit domestic violence have to work very hard. It does tend to reoccur. What do you do with that?
SPIRIT: You know, the thing is here, Dr. Drew, I`m sorry, but when I look at her, she does not strike me as someone who is a victim of what she has
alleged. Everything about her body language suggests to me, mistruth all the way around.
I look at him and I feel sorry for him because he`s not going to get a fair shake here. It doesn`t matter what actually happened here. Everybody is
already going to have their opinion.
EIGLARSH: Spirit...
SPIRIT: Gun surfaces or never does.
PINSKY: I think he will get a fair shake. Mark, it`s not likely the D.A. is really gonna make much of this, right? There`s no there there.
EIGLARSH: Well, we don`t know, and we don`t know what we don`t know, and they don`t know what they have completely just yet, but if it is just her
testimony without corroboration, a bus load of nuns to say they saw it, I doubt it`s gonna go anywhere.
PINSKY: That`s right.
EIGLARSH: Where he will arguably get hurt again is in the court of public opinion, but after what he did to Rihanna, I was going to say allegedly,
but after he did that, apparently, it did not hurt his credibility. So, you know, his career is still there. I don`t think it`s gonna hurt him much.
PINSKY: And this woman he accused, Baylee Curran, is feeling the wrath of Brown`s fans. Here`s what she told ABC.
(START VIDEO CLIP)
CURRAN: I thought he was going to shoot me. Took the gun out like this, put it in my face, and said get the (beep) out. I was getting a lot of hate
mail from the fans. Very, very hurtful, saying, kill yourself, you`re a snitch, you`re a snake.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Jasmine, anything else we know about Baylee? I`m gonna feel bad that she`s getting attacked. You know, the new world we live in, where moms
just attack people through social media.
SIMPKINS: Yeah, definitely. Chris has a very, very aggressive set of fans. Team Breezy, they love him. Sleeping Dogs (ph) come out in support for him,
Ray J, so a lot of -- a lot of 50 Cents even. You even have celebrities who are saying, you know, let this man live. Let him make music and can we just
stop with the unwarranted allegations.
This girl, also, one thing that also came out is that her crown, she was -- she was given the crown of Miss California, 2016. They`ve stripped her of
her crown two months ago. Some nude pictures surfaced that was shown to the Miss California people.
The director then reached out to Baylee, asked her about those photos, she denied that it was her in the photo. From there, she proceeded to missed
several appearances. They asked her and actually let her know that they would be taking back the crown. That she no longer be Miss California.
PINSKY: Mark, Geragos was also very complimentary to the LAPD for how they handle this. They actually -- one of the whole thing they escalated --
there was a lot of resources directed to his house and Geragos felt that was sort of a waste. But they contacted him. They let him go deal with his
client. And really nothing happened as a result, which is again, LAPD should be commended for not letting this break down into something worse.
EIGLARSH: Well, perhaps Geragos should communicate that with his client who apparently is not fond and has the right to not be fond of the police, if
that`s how he feels. What concerned me the most is how angry Chris Brown is. We know that anger is one letter shy of danger. I would like to see him
a little bit more happy, joyous, and free. He has a lot of reasons to be happy.
PINSKY: He does. That agitation I agree with you can look scary at times. Next up, Anthony Weiner, people are wondering what he was thinking when he
allegedly sexted a woman with his own child in the picture. Back after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(START VIDEO CLIP)
ANTHONY WEINER, POLITICIAN AND FORMER CONGRESSMAN: Today, I am announcing my resignation from congress.
HUMA ABEDIN, POLITICAL STAFFER, WEINER`S WIFE: Anthony has made some horrible mistakes both before he resigned from congress and after.
WEINER: I`m glad these things are behind us. I know that this was a very public thing that we had happen to us.
ABEDIN: I love him. I have forgiven him. I believe in him.
WEINER: Maybe it would be -- maybe an easier answer to say, well, I`ve got some addiction or I was, you know, abused as a child or something else.
It`s none of those things. It was simply a blind spot.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: That`s what we called denial. Anthony Weiner is reportedly being investigated by the Administration for Children Services after allegedly
sending a lewd photo of himself lying next to his young son.
The State of New York will determine whether his parenting is satisfactory. But, that`s certainly appropriate for them to do that investigation. But
the fact that his son got brought into this behavior is my concern. Now, the question here is, is this just a man in an unhappy marriage who is
acting out online or is this a sexual addiction?
We`re talking about addiction as a consequence of work or school, finance, relationship, health or legal status. He certainly had consequences in all
of those areas. But sill you could say, well, maybe it`s just an unhappy marriage.
But when you have a child getting wrapped into this, that to me is a threshold issue. That`s something when even he when his denial begins to
come down is gonna be mortified. That`s clearly loss of control. Spirit, you agree with me or do you feel something different going on here?
SPIRIT: Oh, no, I agree 110 percent. And so when he had that denial happening back in 2013, Dr. Drew, I`d love to go back and use all of that,
if he were my client and we were sitting on a couch together to go back and say now how do you feel about that now that it has deteriorated
deteriorated to this point. Tell me if you still feel the same way.
PINSKY: Mark, what?
EIGLARSH: I thoroughly disagree with both of you. Thoroughly. Okay. His acts of self-sabotage which I am not a fan of costs his congressional seat,
his mayoral bid, his reputation, and his wife. But where I draw the line is on his kid. You think that his child was abused, neglected or endangered?
PINSKY: No. That`s not what I said. What I said is the child is getting socked into these behaviors. That the behaviors are disregard for the
safety of the child and that`s like, forget sexual...
EIGLARSH: What do you mean? The kid is sleeping. Drew, the kid is sleeping. How is he being brought into this?
PINSKY: He`s lying there while he`s sexting that nasty picture.
SPIRIT: How far you are in your addiction. It speaks to that.
PINSKY: That`s right.
SPIRIT: It speaks to that.
PINSKY: Put anything else in there.
SPIRIT: He was in denial.
PINSKY: Yeah. He was taking pills or doing something else while he was taking care of his child. It`s the same kind of a phenomenon. That`s why,
to me, it suggests...
EIGLARSH: I disagree.
PINSKY: We don`t know him.
EIGLARSH: You think -- you think that his taking pictures, which I`m not fan of and it`s irresponsible and cost him all those things we talked
about, is the same in terms of putting his child in jeopardy as taking pills or alcohol?
PINSKY: It gets there. It`s going there is what I`m saying, Mark, and we have crossed that threshold. Spirit you agree with that?
SPIRIT: Yeah. It just says how far out of control he is.
PINSKY: And the other thing, you noticed also he doesn`t experience shame also when he`s up there at that podium.
SPIRIT: Not at all.
PINSKY: He will, unfortunately. I got to go, Mark. Mark, I got to go.
EIGLARSH: If the kid is seeing his Weiner. Okay.
PINSKY: He may have opened his eyes and see what the woman texted him as well. We`ll see you next time. Nancy Grace is up next.
END
