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Dr. Drew
Chaos at the "Dancing With the Stars" Premiere; The Infamous Cold Case of JonBenet Ramsey; 19-Year-Old Dr. Love Arrested for Fraud. Aired 7- 8p ET
Aired September 13, 2016 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[19:00:00] DREW PINSKY, DR. DREW ON CALL SHOW HOST: Chaos at the premier of ABC`s Dancing with the Stars. Protesters actually rushed the stage as
Olympic swimmer Ryan Lochte`s foxtrot was just being judged. Watch this.
(START VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I just adore you. Call me.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Excuse me, hey, back off. Excuse me. Excuse me. Excuse me. Off. Off.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We`ll take a break. We`ll get the rest of the judges comments.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is what was going on. This is ABC`s security video. You see security making a tackle on one of those guys.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Protesters come onto the stage and grabbed by security.
RYAN LOCHTE, SWIMMER, OLYMPIC MEDALIST: So many feelings are going through my head right now. A little hurt.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We want to publicize that this is a bad decision to have a liar become this size of a star.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There are plenty of exemplary athletes that Walt Disney company could have used.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Joining us, Areva Martin, attorney; John Leiberman, correspondent for The Howard Stern Show; Kate Aquillano, she is actually one of our
staffers, she was at the show, Dancing with the Stars, last night in the audience; and Sara Sidner, CNN correspondent. Sara, tell me what happened.
SARA SIDNER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Say you can see the video very clearly there that two protesters came in. Apparently, they had tickets. They were
able to get in to watch the show and they have the shirts underneath with the crossing out Lochte. Clearly, they had those made, just like done up
while sitting there.
And they went down, got very close to the stage, then got on to the stage. Now, according to them, because they have spoken there now out of jail but
they were tackled, you can see it there, tackled on stage, and then taken away.
There were four other protesters who are also there at the top, four women who also got led out. And what they`re protesting really they say is that
Lochte is a liar and that he shouldn`t be representing the U.S.
One of those protesters who was arrested and charged with the misdemeanor said he was in Rio at the time when Lochte was there and then when he left
and after the lying and after the whole incident, and he said that Brazilians became much more intolerant of Americans and he was really upset
about that.
So, that is one of the reasons why they were protesting. They said that the ABC should not or Walt Disney company should not have let him be one of the
athletes on the show. That he is no star, he`s a liar, and he misrepresented what he said, embarrasses America and Brazil.
PINSKY: I know. I think it`s sort of bizarre these people are rotten. They went all through all that trouble to protest somebody telling a non-truth.
Kate, you were there when this went out. What else did we not see that you saw while you`re there?
KATE AQUILLANO, WITNESSED "DWTS" ATTACK ON LOCHTE: Yeah, when we were in the audience, there`s so much production crew going in and out when those
two gentlemen walked out onto the dance floor, really like, what is this kind of thing?
And then the security came out and like Sara said tackled them but what the audience didn`t see is the four extra women that were also protesting in
the audience. Derek Huff, one of the pro-dancers spotted them and he ran over to them.
It was like get them out of here. And then you could really see how shocked the judges were. Cheryl looked really scared. Ryan was there, shook up. So,
everyone was kind of in shock.
PINSKY: John, they had to go through a lot of trouble to get so close. I mean, they were in the lower area which is really just for VIPs. They got
through some sort of screening procedure and it does sort of calling to question the security procedures there at "Dancing with the Stars."
JOHN LEIBERMAN, CORRESPONDENT FOR THE HOWARD STERN SHOW: Well, it does, Drew. And I`ll tell you this, I mean, police truly believe this was
premeditated in every sense of the word. They got those close passes by getting the passes a while ago.
They wore street clothes into the taping and at some point, all of these people, the group of five or six in total, went to the bathroom and changed
into the t-shirts that you saw. So, clearly this was premeditated on many different levels.
And as you said, they weren`t in the general admission section where, you know, where folks who had just the GA passes are, they snuck into the
section close to the stage to give them the access that they needed to pull this off.
PINSKY: Areva, does this strike you as bizarre as it does me. Ryan Lochte lied or he is a screwball. You got to rush a stage of a television show?
It`s so bizarre.
AREVA MARTIN, ATTORNEY: Yeah, Dr. Drew. I`m so shocked by this. Like you, I`ve been on so many sets and the security typically at a set of a taping
of a prime time show is so incredible. I can`t imagine that they were able to go into the restroom and changed into these protest-type shirts and then
be allowed back into the audience to take their seats.
So, this just looks like a massive failure on the part of the security and I`m certain that everyone is reviewing what happened during this taping and
it won`t happen again.
PINSKY: Wait, Sara may know something. Sara?
[19:05:00] SIDNER: I think what actually happened, that we are hearing from some of the producers is that they had it on, the shirts underneath the
clothes they had worn, and they took their tops off and they have the shirts on, so that maybe why security never really saw it because they went
through all the security, and then took off their outfits.
PINSKY: John?
LEIBERMAN: And the other thing, Drew, it`s not as if these guys had weapons, knives, guns, or anything. They weren`t bringing contraband into
the facility.
PINSKY: I mean, what are we going to protest next? It`s bizarre. Cameras caught up with Ryan immediately after the show and asked him about the
incident. Take a look.
(START VIDEO CLIP)
LOCHTE: At that moment, I was really heartbroken. My heart just sunk and I felt like someone just ripped it apart, but, you know, I just -- I had to
brush it off. I had realized that I came out here in front of millions and did something that I don`t know how to do. I don`t know how to dance. And I
gave it my all, and, you know, I`m glad that I did it and I`m glad that I`m here.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Weird way Sara, this guy does not disappoint. He is the same guy that claimed that a gun was put into his head, whatever, but came out on
stage, I feel like somebody ripped my heart apart.
SIDNER: Yeah, it`s a lot. To be fair, by the way, the crowd after all what happened, gave him a standing ovation and they were clapping for him. And I
think it did scare people so the protesters, you know, got the attention they wanted, but they did scare some of the folks there, might be a bit
over the top.
PINSKY: I like how one of the dancers ran out there, pushed out the remaining protesters. John, a lot of people are saying this guy shouldn`t
be on "Dancing with the Stars" after what he did in Rio, but, I mean, listen, the goal of the producers is to attract eyes to the show, mission
accomplished.
LEIBERMAN: Yeah, Drew. I mean, the name of the game on shows like that is ratings. So, of course, they would recruit somebody like him and you know
these types of shows have been used in the past to actually rehabilitate the reputations of many their contestants. So, I don`t think this was an
out of the ordinary choice at all.
PINSKY: Right, but Kate, let`s get to what`s important. How was his dancing?
(LAUGHTER)
AQUILLANO: I was surprised. It was better than expected.
PINSKY: And Areva, I heard people, little rumors flying around that this was maybe staged. Conspiracy theories. So many conspiracy theories in our
presidential campaign, and now it`s leaking into "Dancing with the Stars."
MARTIN: Yeah, I`ve been hearing that this is a publicity stunt by the network or by the producers of the show. I`m not buying any of that, Dr.
Drew. These shows cost a fortune to produce and they are, you know, monitored down to the second into the minutes.
So, I think these are just protesters that slipped through security, and I don`t think this will ever happen again on "Dancing with the Stars."
PINSKY: Hold on, John is a conspiracy theorist. Go ahead, John.
LEIBERMAN: No, no, no, Drew. But having worked on prime time T.V. shows, if this were staged, you would have seen a lot of better camera angle of those
guys coming up. It would have been well-produced.
PINSKY: By the way, Kate, they took your cameras away, right? Yet some people managed to maintained their cameras to get some footage down there.
AQUILLANO: Yes. Cell phones were not allowed inside but a lot of people had them. I don`t know how they snuck them in, but we got the footage now.
PINSKY: Does anybody else, Areva and I, Sara, you must feel the way Areva and I do, how bizarre this is, that somebody is -- how do you have the
motivation to go in there and make the t-shirts and go -- I`m so outraged that a young man lied about what he did or misrepresented what he did.
SIDNER: I agree with you.
PINSKY: . that I have to go and break the law, get arrested. I mean, aren`t there more important things going on in this country?
SIDNER: There are but to be fair, one of them said, he was in Brazil at time and he felt the anger towards him as an American in Brazil after
Lochte did what he did, which was lied about what happened and embarrassed two countries and the Olympic team and on and on and himself.
And so like you said, it took a lot of time. You had to make the shirts, you get everybody dressed in outfits, you had to buy the tickets.
PINSKY: There were five other people who as angry as you are, who had to go in to rush a T.V. show.
MARTIN: I hope these guys are prosecuted, Dr. Drew, because we need to send a really serious message that this kind of behavior won`t be tolerated.
Even though John said there weren`t any weapons or contraband, these could have been a more serious incident, someone could have been injured or
harmed.
So, I think these guys are going to face some hopefully serious criminal penalties for what they did.
SIDNER: And it was live. So, anything they did showed up.
MARTIN: Footage.
SIDNER: Right.
PINSKY: All right, next up, a murder mystery unsolved for two decades, of course of the JonBenet Ramsey`s mystery. Brother breaks his silence about
his little sister`s death. And later, so-called Dr. Love, the teen who claimed he is a physician, has been arrested yet again. Back after this.
[19:10:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(START VIDEO CLIP)
PATSY RAMSEY, MOTHER OF JONBENET RAMSEY: Police.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What`s going.
RAMSEY: 755, 15th Street.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What`s going on there, ma`am?
RAMSEY: We have a kidnapping. Hurry, please.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It is hard for many people to recall it now, but the murder of JonBenet Ramsey was a little more than a tragic local news story
that holiday season of 1996, until her parents appeared on CNN.
RAMSEY: Keep your baby close to you, there`s someone out there.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: John and Patsy Ramsey`s comments turned the story into a sensation led by those captivating pageant videos. A puzzle. How could a 6-
year-old girl be killed in a quiet neighborhood and no one see or hear a thing?
This year, attention once again turned to her brother, Burke, who was 9 years old and by all accounts, sleeping soundly in his room while her
sister`s skull was fractured and strangled nearby.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: It is one of the most infamous cold cases in American history, the murder of 6-year-old JonBenet Ramsey 20 years ago. Her brother, Burke, who
was 9 at the time and home speaking publicly about the case now for the first time. Watch this from CBS`s Dr. Phil.
(START VIDEO CLIP)
PHIL MCGRAW, DR. PHIL SHOW HOST: I think this was the last picture that was ever taken of her alive.
BURKE RAMSEY, JONBENET RAMSEY`S BROTHER: I don`t remember her hair being that long.
[19:15:00] MCGRAW: It`s hard to believe a short time later she would be dead.
RAMSEY: Yeah.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: I`m back with Areva and John, and joining us, Eric Guster, civil rights attorney and Casey Jordan, criminologist and host of "Wives with
Knives" on Investigation Discovery. John, take me back to December 1996 and what went down.
LEIBERMAN: Yeah, we covered this case extensively when I was in America`s Most Wanted, Drew, and so we have done a time line here for you. It started
Christmas day of `96, you know, the Ramsey family spent the night at a party and then they come back to their huge mansion in Boulder.
According to the Ramseys, JonBenet falls asleep in the car and her father, John, actually carried her up to her bedroom, and her mom tucks her in.
That`s the last time they say they saw her alive.
The mother then wakes up, Patsy, around 5:30 the next morning, and she walks down the spiral staircase from her third floor bedroom and she sees
three sheets of paper on the stairs.
It`s basically a ransom note that in essence says, we kidnapped your daughter, don`t call the police or we will kill her. We want 118,000
thousand dollars. Patsy, the mom, then calls 911, 20 minutes later, the cops arrived. For six hours, the Ramseys wait for the kidnappers promised
call and the police searched the house.
An officer then asked John Ramsey and his friend to search the home one more time. That`s when they discover JonBenet`s lifeless body on the bottom
floor of the home in the so-called wine room. The family basically from what I recall, used it as a junk room.
It was the first area that John and his friend searched. JonBenet was wrapped in a blanket. Her hands were tied. There was a piece of duct tape
across her mouth, and a cord around her neck. She had been strangled and suffered a skull fracture to the right side of her head, Drew.
PINSKY: Chilling. I want to show you more of Dr. Phil`s interview with Burke Ramsey, the brother, from CBS T.V. Take a look.
(START VIDEO CLIP)
MCGRAW: Do you remember waking up that morning?
RAMSEY: Yep. The first thing I remember is my mom bursting in my room really frantic, saying, oh my gosh, oh my gosh, oh my gosh. Running around
my room looking for JonBenet. At that point I was awake, she left, and I kind of hear her freaking out.
I just heard mom like going psycho.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you go down and see what was going on?
RAMSEY: No, I just stayed in bed.
(END VIDEO CLIP0
PINSKY: Casey, Burke has been a suspect. The fact that he stayed in bed, do you make anything of that?
CASEY JORDAN, CRIMINOLOGIST: I find it very hard to believe that his mother burst into the room frantic as he says, that she doesn`t haul him out of
bed and say, help us look for your sister, I have no idea where -- where she is.
And Burke apparently just stays in his room. He goes back to sleep or doesn`t care. He says, the light had to be off because the next thing he
knows a cop is coming with a flashlight, so the lights must have been off. So he clearly wasn`t alarmed. I have a very hard time believing that.
Unless he`s remembering it to his convenience. I think that at that age, age 9, a lot of memories can be implanted by parents, to self-preservation.
I think Burke has a memory of convenience. I think a lot more happens that he probably doesn`t remember.
PINSKY: And are you suggesting that it had something to do with him?
JORDAN: No, I never thought Burke was responsible for his sister`s death.
PINSKY: What do you think?
JORDAN: There`s three theories, Dr. Drew. It`s either the intruder theory, the Burke theory, or the parents theory, the Ramseys theory. And I`ve
always gone for option number three, but I think that only one person alive knows the answer to that, and Patsy is deceased. So, we will never solve
this case.
PINSKY: Now, here is more of the interview with the brother, Burke, by CBS`s Dr. Phil.
(START VIDEO CLIP)
MCGRAW: You never get up and say what is going on here?
RAMSEY: I guess I kind of like to avoid conflict or I`m -- I don`t know, I guess I just felt safer there.
MCGRAW: Were you curious?
RAMSEY: I`m not the worry type, I guess part of me doesn`t want to know what is going on.
MCGRAW: Critics would say, you weren`t curious because you already knew. You didn`t have to get up and check because you knew exactly what had
happened.
RAMSEY: I was scared I think.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Eric, what do you make of Dr. Phil`s point there?
ERIC GUSTER, CIVIL RIGHTS ATTORNEY: Dr. Phil`s interview was very interesting because this young man is kind of weird and Dr. Phil actually
acknowledged that. But as far as this murder case, someone in that family is guilty to this, Dr. Drew.
There is no other explanation except that. Just on -- just on one piece of evidence, the note. The note is enough to let us know that someone in that
house did it. Who breaks into a house? Use common sense here.
Who breaks into a house, writes a 2-1/2-page note, then murdered someone? That is something off a T.V. movie. It`s fantasy. That was derived off of
what this family did and they were trying to cover it up.
PINSKY: Areva, you agree?
[19:20:00] MARTIN: No, I absolutely disagree, Eric. The problem with your theory is there`s no motive here. You have a wealthy family, you have a
beautiful daughter, they were investigated ad nauseam by countless numbers of law enforcement personnel, and they never were able to link the family
to the death of JonBenet.
DNA tests cleared them in fact of the murder. So, to sit here now some, you know, decades later and say the family was responsible, there`s no evidence
of that, no one has ever been able to link this family to this little girl`s murder.
PINSKY: Eric, your response?
GUSTER: Just because.
PINSKY: Go ahead.
GUSTER: . just because they weren`t linked to the murder directly, Areva, doesn`t mean they`re not guilty, just like you know and I know. For
example, the DNA was inconclusive in reference to whose DNA this was.
Secondly, the note was written on the paper that the family had, and JonBenet`s mother was possibly the writer of the note. So, this case
clearly shows that somebody in the house had something to do with it. I don`t know which family member was. Somebody in the house did it.
PINSKY: I`m going to get more to that note. I`m going to get more to that note. Just a second. But before I do, Casey, you were nodding your head
vigorously, what do you want to say?
JORDAN: Just because we can`t prove it beyond a reasonable doubt doesn`t mean that people will not always be convinced simply by exclusion that the
parents are the most likely people who are responsible for the death of their daughter.
It looks like a cover-up. It always has. I find it fascinating that Burke talked about hitting the head of his sister with a golf club because she
had a comminuted fracture. And most people believe that`s how she died, not the strangulation, that the strangulation.
And you have to wonder if Burke is saying that almost as a red herring to make it look like the fractures in her skull were an accident that happened
earlier in the evening. I think that it is possible his father put him up to this.
MARTIN: Dr. Drew, this is a kind of speculation that`s been so unfair in this case.
PINSKY: You`re right. I got to break. We are going to keep speculating because next up, the brother says, I know people I think did it, no, I know
people think I did it, I beg your pardon. He thinks that other people think he did it. Why would he say that publicly?
And later, back in the slammer, the teen who says he is a doctor arrested again, again abusing an elderly individual. Back after this.
[19:25:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(START VIDEO CLIP)
JOHN BENNETT RAMSEY, JONBENET RAMSEY`S FATHER: We will find you, I have that as sole mission for the rest of my life.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mrs. Ramsey?
RAMSEY: Like-wise, the police and investigators have assured us that this is a case which can be solved. You may be eluding the authorities for a
time but God knows who you are and we will find you.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: One of the most mysterious pieces of evidence found in the death of JonBenet Ramsey is a three-page ransom note that Patsy Ramsey says she
found the morning JonBenet went missing. JonBenet`s brother, Burke, now 29 years of age, talked to Dr. Phil about that particular ransom note. Take a
look at this from CBS TV.
(START VIDEO CLIP)
MCGRAW: Do you know the theories that they set forth in saying that your mom killed JonBenet?
RAMSEY: I don`t know the details, but I know the ransom note, they think, the handwriting matched.
MCGRAW: Have you seen it, read it?
RAMSEY: I don`t think I`ve read the whole thing. I`ve definitely seen pictures of it.
MCGRAW: Did the handwriting look familiar to you at all?
RAMSEY: Honestly, looking at that, she will always bugged me about having good handwriting and she would make me rewrite stuff to try to get me a
good handwriting. I think it`s too sloppy.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Investigators say that note was written on a pad with a pen from the Ramsey home. They claim it must have been taken at least 16 minutes to
write that ransom note and the demand was for 118,000 dollars, the precise amount of John, the father`s, Christmas bonus.
Back with Areva, John, Eric, and Casey. Casey, let`s talk about the intruder theory. Did they look, I mean, who else would have known the
amount of the Christmas bonus and known their way around the house in the dark? Is there anyone else?
JORDAN: No. Which is why I don`t believe the intruder theory at all. And it`s absolutely correct. We`ve had many handwriting experts look at that
and believe that whoever wrote it, most agree it`s Patsy`s handwriting, I`ve definitely seen exemplars that matched the handwriting from Patsy.
They think that she started writing with her left hand to try to make it look like sloppy as possible. It is a staged ransom note and it is written
with a pen, a Sharpie from the home on a tablet in the kitchen, we never had intruders do something like that, especially when the child is already
dead.
Why write a ransom note? So, almost everybody agrees that the language really correlates to Patsy. We know that she suffered from uterine cancer.
There`s language that, you know, talks about your body will be scanned. The person misspells the word business, but puts an accent above word attache
and spell that correctly.
So, it`s write to what we called contraindicator, somebody whose trying to make it look like the note was written by somebody else.
PINSKY: John.
GUSTER: And Drew, from a very basic level, I mean, there were no signs of forced entry into the house. There were no footprints in the snow leading
up to the house. And the rope that was used to choke JonBenet was tightened with a paint brush from Patsy`s hobby kit.
So that would have been taken time to find and get and take out. But reality here is, and I think we can all agree, a major problem why this
case will never be solved most likely is because the crime scene was so compromised.
I mean, the father found the body and it was hours later, and it took the police 20 to 30 minutes to get there. I mean, this crime scene was so
severely compromised that we may never know definitively who killed JonBenet.
PINSKY: Areva, you agree with that?
[19:30:00] MARTIN: I just think it`s so unfair that to this very day, people continue to have all of these, you know, conspiracy theories, these
speculative theories about the family. Yes, some things may have happened in this case that are unusual, but doesn`t draw you to the conclusion or
lead you to the conclusion that the parents did it.
We still have yet to hear any motive. Why would this mother kill her daughter. Why there`s a 9-year-old son, her son, in the home asleep as
well? So, any theory about this mother not wanting her daughter maybe to experience cancer or any of these other wild theories, I think, are just so
unfair.
And Eric, to your point, the brother may be weird, but weird doesn`t make you a murder. So, I don`t think we can draw so many conclusions by his
unusual affect. I think a kid was traumatized having lived under the pressure for so many years of being basically called a murderer when
there`s no evidence that he committed a murder.
PINSKY: Eric, your response?
GUSTER: Yes, he may have been traumatized by trying to protect his mother because he realized that his mother probably killed his sister. And looking
at evidence, this is about evidence, Areva, this is about the family`s -- the note that was written on the paper using a pen that was in the house.
There were no footprints in the snow, no evidence of entry, the lights weren`t cut on. Someone within that house had to do this. And with criminal
cases I`ve handled and have investigated working with other lawyers, we know that when people were trying to set up an alibi, they do stupid things
like write ransom notes saying 118,000 dollars is how much you need to give us.
MARTIN: Where is the motive, Eric? What is the motive?
GUSTER: You know, mothers who kill their daughters don`t actually have motives, they are just nut cases, they don`t have to have a motive to kill
their own daughter.
PINSKY: John, go ahead.
LEIBERMAN: Here`s my question for the panel and for you, Drew. Why do you think Burke is speaking out now?
PINSKY: I -- I -- I have no idea except I know that there are a bunch of sort of exposes coming, maybe -- maybe Phil pursued him or something. I
don`t know.
MARTIN: It`s the anniversary of her death. It`s the 20th anniversary of her death. So, all of these stories that are being done.
PINSKY: Yeah.
MARTIN: . and the case -- they renewed interest in this case. People saw...
LEIBERMAN: What`s in it for him?
PINSKY: Probably.
JORDAN: But if I were a member of the family, I wouldn`t want to go on record saying anything. I would want her memory to just exists as it was
and not.
LEIBERMAN: Yes.
MARTIN: That`s fine for you, but that doesn`t make him a murderer because he chooses to speak.
PINSKY: And Casey -- and Casey.
GUSTER: Someone in the house is a murderer.
PINSKY: But Casey, it is going to be stirred up by these exposes that are coming. And so why, maybe he`s trying to stay ahead of it. But, Casey, real
quick before we got to break. What do you make of his affect? It is a little bizarre, right? He`s sort of constant smiling through the whole
thing, inappropriate.
JORDAN: He is very nervous, he is socially awkward. You know, Dr. Phil admits that straight up. He`s a pleaser. He`s trying very hard to please
his interviewer. And I don`t know why he waited until now. You don`t need an anniversary to come forward.
If you think everyone always thought you might be a suspect, I would as soon as I was 18 years old, I would have gone on the record saying, I did
not kill her and I don`t think my family did. Why wait until now? I think his father put him up to it.
PINSKY: I got some more to show you. And later, can Dr. Love so-called be diagnosed and treated? The fake teen doctor cannot stay out of trouble.
I`ll tell you about it after this.
[19:35:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(START VIDEO CLIP)
PATSY RAMSEY, JONBENET RAMSEY`S MOTHER: If you`re asking me if I knew some information that John Ramsey was responsible for killing my daughter,
honey, we wouldn`t be sitting here right now.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why?
RAMSEY: Because I would have knocked his block off a long time ago. He didn`t do it, I didn`t do it, Burke didn`t do it, we loved that child,
okay? We`re not involved. Read my lips.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: That police interrogation tape with Patsy Ramsey is from June 1998. Her daughter, JonBenet, found murdered in their home 18 months before that
interview.
Back with Areva, John, Eric, and Casey. Now, Boulder police asked John Ramsey to search for JonBenet after the initial attempts yielded tests no
clues. As John Leiberman told us, it was he who discovered the daughter`s body and here is what he told CBS T.V. Dr. Phil. Take a listen.
(START VIDEO CLIP)
PHIL MCGRAW, DR. PHIL SHOW HOST: Take me through the moment that your eyes fell on JonBenet`s face as she was lying there on the floor. Did you know
she was dead?
JOHN BENNETT RAMSEY, JONBENET RAMSEY`S FATHER: No, not at that point. I just had this rush of thank God I found her. I was just this overwhelming
sense of joy that I found my child, and hands were tied over her head, she had tape on her mouth, I immediately took the tape off, her eyes were
closed.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: He did carry her up the stairs. As you mentioned, John Lieberman, contaminated the whole scene. Evidence was completely, you know, it
eliminated as a result. I find it a little bizarre that when they did find out that she was not breathing, didn`t seem like John initiated even CPR at
least that I can see.
LEIBERMAN: No, I mean, the records don`t indicate anything about any sort of emergency medical assistance given to her at the scene, Drew.
PINSKY: According to the law enforcement, the Boulder police engaged in a crime scene search and preservation that was quote, worse than amateurish,
bordering on criminal. Eric, do you agree? Was this a -- the core issue that the scene was not handled properly?
GUSTER: There are several major issues, but the scene is the major one, is the biggest one, Dr. Drew. When you have a crime scene like this,
preservation is so important. Where are the footprints there. Where the DNA was? What members of the family fingerprints may have been at the scene
around that area. Where are the fibers from the rope that tied her hands? Where there fibers behind with the tape?
There are so many things that could have been done, that weren`t, which gives that big hold of reasonable doubt that Areva is talking about all
afternoon that this family members don`t deserve. I believe the evidence clearly showed that someone in the house did it and the police officers are
part of the reason that they got away with it.
[19:40:00] PINSKY: And Casey, you came in here with sort of an idea of what happened. In 2008, the Boulder district attorney said, they did some
specialized DNA testing that cleared all Ramsey family members of suspicion. So, whom do you think we are dealing with here? There was some
other identified there.
JORDAN: How convenient that they cleared the Ramseys after they have botched this entire thing for years, you know, it takes all the attention
of how they botched the investigation. The test DNA that they used, you had some unidentified DNA.
And basically, you got to understand, it could be the DNA of anybody. It could be a factory worker who sneezed while they were packaging those
underwear that she was wearing. She just put them on for the first time that day. They were Christmas gift. But the key is, you know, Areva, you
got to remember, I`m a defense attorney, so let`s agree.
John Ramsey will never be convicted, he is presumed innocent, but bottom line is you want a motive. And I can come up with a dozen scenarios of how
this could have happened in the family.
And I don`t think it was premeditated but I do think she was killed by one or the other of her parents, perhaps as an accident, perhaps as a peak of
rage, and understand that the pact between them to never tell the truth to cover it up completely sits with the criminologist in me.
We just see these things happen between family members and intimate. There`s nothing that supports the intruder theory.
PINSKY: Areva, last word.
MARTIN: But just like we could say a fit of rage, we could also say because she lost a pageant contest, we can come up with a thousand different
reasons, but none of them have been proven to be credible.
And it wasn`t just the Boulder law enforcement. This case got so much national attention. There were so many eyes on the evidence. There were so
many eyes on this case.
I just think that those parents or anyone in that house was responsible by now that would have been proven and the fact that it hasn`t, let this
family, the father and son, live in peace without this taint over their entire lives. Enough is enough.
JORDAN: They`re the ones talking to the media.
MARTIN: Enough is enough.
PINSKY: They are the ones, Casey, yeah. Eric, go ahead.
GUSTER: They went to Dr. Phil`s show themselves.
MARTIN: They didn`t go to Dr. Phil to say they did it.
GUSTER: They didn`t want to stay in peace. They were the ones who went and did it.
(CROSSOVER)
PINSKY: Last thing. One last thing.
GUSTER: If they wanted the case to go away, they should have just stayed at home.
PINSKY: Casey, why are you surprised on what Areva was saying? That`s what I expected her to say. It seemed to shock you, why?
JORDAN: No, it`s just that everything supports the fact that the family would have done it. I can envision a situation where Patsy found that John
was giving her daughter too much affection, make of that what you will, hypothetical that she discovered something and in the peak of rage, let me
tell you, mothers who think that there is too much liberties between their husbands and their daughters blame the daughters always.
PINSKY: But wouldn`t you -- wouldn`t you expect going forward, you know, just the way, you know, people that got exonerated for crimes that they did
eventually do more stuff. We haven`t heard anything from any of the parents doing anything. We got to leave it. We got to leave. We`re not going to
solve it tonight. It remained a cold case.
But there is one active case I want to get into. This is the so-called Dr. Love. He`s a teen who keeps claiming he is a physician. And now, he has
done something incredible. He just cannot stay out of trouble. We`ll get into that after this.
[19:45:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MALACHI LOVE-ROBINSON, ACCUSED TEEN, FAKE DOCTOR: I didn`t operate, I didn`t reach in someone`s uterus, you know, I didn`t snatch up a baby, I
didn`t do any of that.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: His Doximity profile says he`s a certified naturopathic doctor who performs counseling, marriage and family therapy,
and hospital administration. And resumeonindeed.com reveals Dr. Love- Robinson is an educational guru and health care professional with superior clinical skills including obstetrics and gynecology, pediatrics and
maternal health and child care.
LOVE-ROBINSON: So many physicians, they speak to me, and they`re just in awe. And it`s not because I`m a great person, not because I`m some miracle
from heaven sent. It`s just because I have a passion for helping people.
MARTIN: Here is this young man that in some ways is an entrepreneurial.
PINSKY: Areva, stop it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If this is one of my relatives that he will do doctor work on, I might be facing charges.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The more they get away with it, the more they began to have just a more grandiose opinion about themselves.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is young man has dissociated himself from reality.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Okay, Areva, here we go. The 19-year-old calls himself Dr. Love, in trouble again. Malachi Love-Robinson. Eric -- Eric wants to -- how about
you, Areva? We will get into it. He was already facing charges for practicing medicine without a license as well as stealing from unsuspected
elderly patients.
Now, he has been arrested again, accused of fraud trying to buy a luxury car with another elderly woman as cosigner using her credit card. Back with
Areva, John, Eric, and Casey. John, he went all the way to Virginia to buy a car with an elderly woman whom he called his godmother, explain how the
dealership caught on.
LEIBERMAN: Oh, my gosh, I mean, he consulted with a lawyer about the insanity defense but this plot that he tried to pull off to buy this Jaguar
was pretty well planned out. Walks in the car dealership. He put his real name on the credit application though.
So when they ran the credit application, they googled actually before they even ran the credit application, a couple of the car dealers, sales people,
googled his name and they found Dr. Love, that`s what at first raised their suspicions.
But, yeah, I mean, he basically tried to buy a 35,000 dollar car using an elderly woman`s name as a cosigner and social security number and the
woman.
[19:50:00] PINSKY: And -- and -- and had already bought on with her credit card a 1,200 dollar iPad and a cell phone and she knew nothing about those
transactions. So, Areva, are we still saying he is an entrepreneurial young man?
MARTIN: Okay, this is.
PINSKY: Put some empathy on elder abuse.
MARTIN: This is clearly a set-up and I know the entire panel will come after me.
(LAUGHTER)
MARTIN: Of course, Dr. Love is in trouble. Eric, he has committed a crime and he does need to be punished for the crimes.
LEIBERMAN: Allegedly. Allegedly.
MARTIN: Allegedly if he is misusing this elderly woman, I do want to see him punished, but I still think there`s something going on, Dr. Drew, with
Dr. Love that we`re not hearing about. We`re not getting the entire story.
PINSKY: Hold on. Let me put some of the whole story up. Put a full screen up there of all his arrests. Arrest, charge, release in March, more charges
added for fraud and larceny. Now this month again, fraud.
I mean, it just goes on every month. There is a really serious offense and always directed at the elderly. Eric, are you going to let this guy off
easy?
GUSTER: Heck no. Last time, I said, he need to go to jail. Areva was saying, oh, he`s a big entrepreneur. He needs to be in magazine or
something.
(LAUGHTER)
GUSTER: But this kid, one thing I can say about him, Dr. Drew, he has good taste in cars. He may be stupid but he has a one of a taste in vehicles but
you have to get it the right way. You have to go to school, go get your education, then get a real job and pay for it instead of scamming old
ladies.
PINSKY: Casey. We go to Casey because we got to get to what this is. I mean, this is sociopathy, right? Or even something worse or even brain
problem. He really does not understand the implications of what he`s doing.
JORDAN: Well, this man is the foster child for con artistry. He is smoother than a fresh jar of Skippy. And quite seriously, he is very similar to
Frank Abagnale, you remember, catch me if you can.
This is a guy who has done it, got caught, and keeps doing it. He is greedy. I have a real PHD. And I have a Volkswagen. I don`t know where he
thinks he gets a Lexus when he`s 19 years old. But he is convinced he deserves it.
LEIBERMAN: I disagree.
PINSKY: John, wait, wait. Wait, John, go ahead.
LEIBERMAN: I disagree that he is a smooth con artist. I mean, in many ways, he does a lot of stupid things. I mean, he was talking to the salespeople
about how he had just bought two iPad and a cell phone and sure enough, they pulled his credit report and they see the two iPad and the cell phone.
So, I mean.
PINSKY: But, John, he doesn`t believe, he doesn`t understand that anyone else would see a problem. He feels entitled in all of it and that the world
should be giving these things. That`s a brain problem. I got more to say about this. We`ll take a little break. We`ll be right back.
JORDAN: Okay.
[19:55:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(START VIDEO CLIP)
LOVE-ROBINSON: I requested to shadow some physicians. Next thing I know, cops are there. That`s all I know. I have no idea. This story was broadcast
everywhere, like I`m some insane maniac that`s just out here doing crazy things.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Remember, he set up a clinic, an entire clinic business that he set up around his medical practice. This guy`s so-called Dr. Love, Malachi
Love-Robinson, arrested again this time for attempting to fraudulently buy a luxury car.
Back with Areva, John, Eric, and Casey. Now, the last time he was arrested, we said treatment, not prison. Now, Casey, does this latest arrest change
our minds at all?
JORDAN: Oh, it was not the first time Dr. Love was in trouble, but I would have said prison the first time. Really, at this age, there is only one
language an 18-year-old, 19-year-old understands.
And the fact that he gets on television and really tries to manipulate the public and give this really smooth interview and say, you know, my
attorneys will plead not guilty for me, but understand my practice is different than my personal matters.
It is just a lot of noise where he says nothing. It`s All double talk. This man, we put everything in the narcissism basket. He is scary because he
self-brainwashed himself to actually believe he is not guilty of anything. He just moves states, he goes from Florida to Virginia, and he takes this
very distant relative, 86 years old, and cons her and has her ready to buy him a car.
I think if he wasn`t caught, he will do it again and again and again until he really is incarcerated. We need to do that to protect the public. I
don`t think he is going to learn anything.
PINSKY: Eric, I know Areva thinks this man will be put in charge of a major business operation but...
MARTIN: I didn`t think that. You are wrong.
(LAUGHTER)
PINSKY: But, Eric, let`s say -- let` say you had to defend this guy. What would you say?
GUSTER: If I will be defending him, I would get him a mental evaluation.
PINSKY: Yeah.
GUSTER: Something is clearly -- something appears to be wrong with him. That would be the first step. Because when you have someone like this who
is operating as a physician and doing those kinds of things, you get into health issues, privacy issues. You have a lot of laws that could have been
broken.
PINSKY: It`s dangerous.
GUSTER: Mental evaluation.
MARTIN: Can I just state for the record, Dr. Drew.
PINSKY: Yes, please.
MARTIN: . that at the time we were talking about this young man, I was concerned about putting him in a criminal justice system. Perhaps he could
be rehabilitated. Now do I agree that he probably needs to be punished because I don`t want to see him continue to escalate.
PINSKY: I don`t think we need another prisoner. But John, I got 15 seconds. Give me your last thoughts on this one.
LEIBERMAN: I mean, the guy is looking at 90 years behind bars. I don`t think he deserves 90 years. But you start adding up the charges and they`re
adding up quick.
PINSKY: And they were looking at an insanity defense, but this young man himself was not ready to take those sort of stuffs. Maybe they will look at
things or maybe like Eric said, they will get a psychiatric evaluation that will be clear that there is really a problem here. Thank you all for
watching. Thank you, panel. Great job. We`ll see you next time. Nancy Grace up next.
[20:00:00]
END
