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Dr. Drew
Brad Pitt and Angelina Jolie End 12-Year Relationship; Jim Carrey Sued in Wrongful Death of Ex-Girlfriend; Unarmed Black Man Shot and Killed by Police. Aired 7-8p ET
Aired September 20, 2016 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[19:00:00] (START VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s the divorce that is shocking the world, Angelina Jolie has filed for divorce from Brad Pitt.
BRAD PITT, ACTOR: It was something we thought we`d do for the kids and the family, but certainly walked away with a -- it means something. it`s not
just a piece of paper.
ANGELINA JOLIE, ACTRESS: He`s my family. He`s not -- he`s not just a lover and a partner. Which he is, wonderfully, but he`s my family now. We have
history, and we -- we -- we know, we work hard to make -- to make it great. We don`t kind of relax about it and take each other for granted. So, like
everybody, we, you know, we -- we have our challenges, but we -- but we`re fighting to -- to make it great.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DREW PINSKY, HLN HOST: It`s actually sad when you look at that -- that footage. Divorce, well, it`s the pits. Brad and Angelina are splitting up
after two years of marriage and 12 years together.
Joining me to discuss, Sam Schacher, host of "Pop Trigger" on Hulu.com; Sara Azari, criminal defense attorney; Stacy Kaiser, psychotherapist; and
Jennifer Peros, senior news editor Entertainment Tonight. Jennifer, did anybody have any signs that something like this was coming?
JENNIFER PEROS, SENIOR NEWS EDITOR, ENTERTAINMENT TONIGHT: No, we didn`t. I mean, I`m not going to lie, sitting at my phone earlier this morning and I
saw that announcement come out and was completely shocked. I mean, there had been a couple of rumors on a few tabloid covers earlier this year that
they could be facing divorce, that they were splitting.
But nobody actually had credible information that it was actually happening. So when the news broke this morning, you know, not even 48 hours
after the Emmy`s, we were all really surprised.
PINSKY: Jennifer, is there a story here yet to be told? Do we know what led to the ultimate divorce? it doesn`t happen, you know, for no reason.
PEROS: Well, that`s what we`re trying to piece together right now, you know. Sources tell us over at E.T. that Angelina had made the decision last
week to file for divorce. Now, we`re not sure exactly when Brad had heard that she was filing.
We`re trying to figure that out right now, but just based on his statement, you know, just the first couple of words where he says, I`m deeply
saddened, it definitely was a little bit of an indication or clue that he really had no idea that this was coming.
PINSKY: I don`t buy it.
PEROS: Sources right now are telling us -- sources right now are telling us that they actually had a lot of differences in how to parent their
children. You know, Brad is one -- he is more the disciplinarian. He`s strict. He liked the kids to be on schedule and be organized in school all
the time.
And Angelina kind of had more of a free form lay back parenting style. So, from what we`re hearing right now, that`s the main thing that split them
up, but I definitely do think there is something that we are going to learn more in the coming days.
PINSKY: Yeah, because, you know, sort of different philosophies of parenting didn`t customarily lead to divorce in short order. It`s only been
a couple of years they`ve been married. TMZ reports this now that Angelina is unhappy with Brad`s smoking pot and drinking alcohol.
She reportedly also felt that he was dangerous -- had some sort of dangerous outbursts around her kids. Sam, you told me in the make-up booth
that all that was dismissed now or is it untrue? What are we hearing?
SAM SCHACHER, HOST OF POP TRIGGER: Well, we`re hearing that Brad Pitt`s camp is denying that, saying that he does not have an alcohol problem, he
does not have a marijuana problem, he certainly is not a danger to his children. However, Dr. Drew, I do think something set this all off.
PINSKY: Yeah.
SCHACHER: I mean, you think Thursday is when she separated from Brad Pitt. Friday is when she met with her lawyer. Monday is when she finally filed
the divorce papers. So, something had to happen. Something had to give. And from her side, TMZ is being very adamant about this, they are saying that
she has said that she thinks that Brad Pitt is dangerous to the kids.
And let`s look at her manager. Her manager put out a statement that Angelina Jolie is going to do anything to protect her children. That`s not
a cryptic statement, Dr. Drew. That`s pretty blatant, and it`s underscoring exactly what TMZ has said.
PINSKY: So again, Stacy, we don`t know these people. We`re trying to read between the lines. But people don`t just wake up in the morning and go,
this is over. It builds over a long period of time.
STACY KAISER, PSYCHOTHERAPIST: A hundred percent agree. I mean, I don`t think he was completely surprised. He may have been surprised in the moment
that she did it, but they clearly had a history of problems. They`ve definitely had issues, and there probably was something that made her reach
a breaking point this week.
PINSKY: Now, Brad Pitt said this in 2013. He was talking about his marriage to Jennifer Aniston. He said, quote, I was so intent on trying to find a
movie about an interesting life, but I wasn`t living an interesting life myself. I think that my marriage had something to do with it, trying to
pretend the marriage was something that it wasn`t.
PINSKY: Sam, you.
SCHACHER: Ouch.
PINSKY: Well, it`s cold-blooded.
SCHACHER: I mean, ouch. If my husband said that about me, ouch.
PINSKY: Right. You had told me that the Jennifer Aniston camp is sort of rejoicing today strangely?
[19:05:00] SCHACHER: This is -- yes, this is so weird. What we`re seeing on social media is this bizarre reaction. So, yeah, you have one side that is
rejoicing, saying that this is karma for Jennifer Aniston and those cheating allegations back in 2004, 2005. And then you have the other side
that is really mourning this breakup as if it was their own breakup. Yes, it`s sad, it`s a divorce, six kids are involved.
But the people on social media that are -- are -- are acting like that this is the end all be all because they think -- some people actually think that
Jennifer or the Brad Pitt and Angelina Jolie is -- is almost like this, you know, relationship goals, this -- this unattainable idealistic idea of what
love should be.
But news flash just because they are celebrity and they`re beautiful, it doesn`t mean that they had it all. It doesn`t mean that the relationship
was flawless and was perfect. Clearly it wasn`t.
PINSKY: Clearly. And Sara, I think that when Angelina is talking about the kids and Sam is telling us that she has doubled down on keeping him away
from the kids, we are looking at a battle royal to come over custody, there`s going to be psychologists and teams of attorneys. And this is going
to be a melt down, it`s going to be terrible.
SARA AZARI, ATTORNEY: And, you know, remember that she`s asking that Brad Pitt only have visitation. That`s a lot to ask for. She`s gonna have to
prove that he actually was a danger to these kids, that he had these outbursts. She`s going to have to bring in witnesses.
Those kids are gonna get dragged into court. They`re gonna have to testify about what their father did or said. It`s really for me, it`s very sad to
see the kids get dragged into this. That`s why I don`t practice family law.
PINSKY: It is sad. Let`s be clear. This is a -- these are two human beings, these are six kids, other human -- they are responsible for six other
lives. This is a melt down for everyone involved. This is going to be a very painful thing.
I, however, did see this coming. I`ll show you back in 2010, I predicted -- well, the press reported as a nuclear eruption. Listen, I said -- I saw
then, I just saw the personality and substance issues that these two had been dealing with. And Stacy, bear with me on this, we had that -- we had
that long history with Angelina Jolie.
Let me show you a quote. She says, quote, I`ve done just about every drug possible. Coke, heroin, ecstasy, LSD, everything. The worst effect, for me,
was pot. She says, I gave them up long ago. Well, if she was abusing drugs, recklessly and not a drug addict, okay, but if she was addicted and using
opiates, man, that`s a bad sign. And.
AZARI: But, Dr. Drew, what if she`s sober? People that are addicts -- I mean, I know that.
PINSKY: I don`t see any evidence of sobriety. That`s the point. I don`t see her -- I don`t hear about -- You know, I`ve sort of involved with all that.
I`ve not heard of her showing up at meetings or whatever. But she may be in remission of one type or another. That`s not the issue.
The issue is, that these guys had a lot of liabilities, Stacy, back me up on this, going into their relationship and the way they solve those
liabilities was piling children on top as a -- as sort of a glue they thought would help keep those instabilities secure. People do that kind of
thing and it ends up just adding dynamite to the breakup.
KAISER: A 100 percent. You know, when we look at relationships, what we look is past relationship history, and these two have both had significant
failures in that area. We know that people who have addiction in their past, if they`re not working a program, often get into other addictions or
they have some behavioral or emotional issues that can come into play, and that may have happened here.
And then also, let`s not forget that these two are in the limelight and even though I think they`ve tried to be private in some ways, that kind of
celebrity pressure where people are watching you, and you`re under the microscope, can impact your marriage.
PINSKY: Yeah, previous behavior predicts future behavior, particularly in relationships and I just remember poor Voight -- Jon Voight begging people.
Jennifer, I hope you remember this. He was begging to the T.V. cameras. My daughter is so ill, please help her. I mean, we got to try to pull that
footage. It was really -- I hope she did -- she had some kind of treatment since then. I hope she stays with it.
But, again, all that history suggests trouble in the present. And we`ll keep this going. I`ll talk to Jennifer about this when we get back from the
break. Later on, Jim Carrey is being sued in the overdose death of his girlfriend. We`re back after this.
[19:10:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(START VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They are perhaps the most famous couple in the world, but today, Angelina Jolie filing for divorce from Bradd Pitt.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why? Why now? Why so quickly? And certainly a lot of people are scratching their heads as whether this was very sudden.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They could file because she was going to be in town and had time to deal with it. She could have filed because he said something
that irritated her. What I think is that she`s got a really good lawyer.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s a bit of a shock. Those who know them know how devoted they are to their family and, you know, while they are not like
typical married people, because they`re movie stars, it takes a lot to break up a marriage and a family like this.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They have more to lose by a big, public, nasty divorce than the court`s going to do with their money.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: The breakup of the Hollywood power couple, Brad Pitt, Angelina Jolie, they are ending their 12-year relationship. Back with Sam, Sara,
Stacy, and Jennifer. Now, they fell in love on the set of "Mr. and Mrs. Smith" in 2004.
Brad Pitt at that time was still married to Jennifer Aniston. Angelina Jolie said she wanted to actually show the movie to her kids because,
quote, not a lot of people get to see a movie where their parents fell in love. Who is saying that? Sam? Go ahead, Sam, react.
SCHACHER: That`s like a dagger in the heart for someone that`s married to that person. I mean, I understand that love can happen in many different
places, even when someone`s married. However, Jennifer Aniston did not want to hear that. Let me tell you that.
PINSKY: Jennifer, did Jennifer Aniston responded at all today? Was there anything from her people or herself?
PEROS: No, she hasn`t responded. You know, I don`t think she`s going to. I mean, Jennifer is at a different stage of her life. She`s happily married
now. She is at the height of her career. I don`t think we`re going to be seeing a statement from her any time soon, nor should we.
PINSKY: Stacy, I think we will, and I predict she`ll express sorrow. This is a sad situation. You know, Jennifer`s a compassionate person and she`ll
say this is really a sad chapter.
KAISER: That`s what I`m hoping. I mean, I do believe she`s moved on, but she knows him, she may still care about him, them, their kids, their
families, and I think any time a family breaks up, it`s sad.
[19:15:00] PINSKY: Yeah. It is sad. And I -- and do you understand, Stacy, help me unravel, I`m having trouble expressing, perhaps, why I get this
feeling this is going to be a cantankerous divorce.
I just -- it just -- there`s a lot of instability at the beginning, previous relationships have been unstable, there have been abandonment
issues and when somebody has abandonment issues and somebody leaves, it tends to evoke very intense emotions. We have lots of kids involved, again,
intense emotions, not likely something that`s going to go quietly.
KAISER: Yes, yes, yes, and the fact that she has now gone forward and said she wants full custody is an emotional trauma for him. Because he has
basically been publicly labeled as somebody that she doesn`t want her kids around after she`s walked around saying, we`re family oriented, he`s a
great father, he loves our kids. So, if nothing else, that`s going to make for a contentious divorce.
PINSKY: And Jennifer, don`t you think if he really were -- I mean, maybe he was an absent dad or something, but if he were really not a good dad, don`t
you think we would have heard something before this?
PEROS: That`s the thing. Something would have come out, here and there, you know, even now, once the news breaks, people around them start talking
after, you know, the cat gets out of the bag, but we haven`t heard anything.
I mean, anyone that I know that`s close to them or who has witnessed them at events with their children, everybody says, you know, Brad is always
been a very loving father to those six children. So, I think if something did dramatic happen, we definitely would have heard something by now.
PINSKY: Sam, you seem like you have your finger on the pulse too, and I wonder, you know, there`s all these allegations of alcohol and pot, this
history of substances with Angelina. Do substances, do you get a sense, play a role here somewhere? It`s hard for me to believe that it doesn`t,
because often, when there`s a crisis, things like that tend to be a part of the crisis.
SCHACHER: Well, like I said earlier, Dr. Drew, I think it`s very strategic of her manager to say that Angelina Jolie filed this divorce to protect her
children. So, that, to me, speaks to danger, right? So, what`s dangerous in this situation?
Then you hear all these inside sources coming out, saying that alcohol was an issue, that -- that he had anger -- anger problems, that was an issue,
and weed. So, it`s starting to add up, and again, you know, to be fair, this is only coming from Angelina Jolie`s side. However -- and I think Sara
mentioned earlier, for her to go after sole custody, sole physical custody, is also really telling.
PINSKY: And -- and we`ve got some, you know, how many of these kids were adopted? So we have kids.
SCHACHER: Three.
PINSKY: Three of them were adopted and now they`re going to go into a broken family. Stacy, again, that, you know, I hope they have resources for
those kids, because these are going to be significant psychological injuries.
KAISER: I do worry about it because there is early childhood trauma in being an orphan or having an early adoption and we don`t necessarily know
all the details of what happened before they went into their lives. And secondly, the fact that this divorce is being made public, so they can go
online and literally look at what people are saying about their parents, and it will live on there for perpetuity.
So, I`m hoping that both of them seek counseling for their kids and that these kids get a lot of support, because this is going to be a difficult
road.
AZARI: But I also have to question whether it`s really about him and his response to the kids. I think people pawn their kids in divorces, and they
usually use the kids as whatever reason that they need, whatever cause that they need to establish in a court of law.
PINSKY: Sara.
AZARI: Yeah?
PINSKY: They do or the attorneys coach them to do that?
AZARI: Well, they first go to the attorneys and express their desires and their goals and the attorneys then help them get, you know, get to those
goals and I think -- I think here, it could very well be something that`s set off Angelina Jolie, that she`s the one that has a problem with
something that Brad Pitt has done or is doing.
PINSKY: Yeah.
AZARI: . and she`s using the kids because it`s a lot easier to, you know, to do that.
PINSKY: It`s not -- it`s easier, it`s possible, it`s a -- it`s the ultimate weapon.
AZARI: Absolutely.
PINSKY: . and it`s so damaging to the kids. And I did a documentary called "Divorce Corp" where I got into the details of how problematic the family
law system is. You want to learn about that, watch that and you`ll get a sense of where this is going. Thank you, panel. I appreciate it.
Next up, Jim Carrey is fighting back against a wrongful death lawsuit involving the drug overdose death of his ex. And later, an unarmed black
man shot and killed by police. The offers` attorney say there is more to the story. We`ll try to get it after this.
[19:20:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(START VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Comedian Jim Carrey being sued by his late girlfriend`s estranged husband.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Court documents show Carrey has been sued for allegedly obtaining drugs under a false name for his ex who died of an overdose last
year.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The coroner`s office found four pill bottles next to her bed, three of them prescribed in a name of a man turned out to be an alias
of Jim Carrey at the pharmacy. And that`s legal in California to do that.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Reports at the time said Carrey and the woman had an on again, off again relationship, and had been broken up again just days
before her death.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Carrey denies any wrong doing and he says he would not tolerate, quote, a heartless attempt to exploit me or the woman I loved.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: As you hear there, Jim Carrey has been sued in the wrongful death of his ex-girlfriend, Cathriona White. The lawsuit filed by White`s
husband, I guess, ex-husband, alleged the actor supplied prescription medication that contributed to a fatal overdose.
Jim Carrey responds, quote, what a terrible shame. It would be easy for me to get in a back room with this man`s lawyer and make this go away. But
there are some moments in life when you have to stand up and defend your honor against the evil in this world.
Back with Sara and Stacy, and joining us, Areva Martin, attorney, and Dylan Howard, Radar Online editorial director. Dylan, can you give us the latest
on this?
DYLAN HOWARD, RADAR ONLINE EDITORIAL DIRECTOR: Well, Dr. Drew, Jim Carrey, as you said, is fighting back against these allegations. Not only is this a
tragic story, it`s also a very sordid one. At the very epicenter of this story is the fact that there is, indeed, a love triangle. In one corner,
you have Jim Carrey, who allegedly was with Cathriona White at the time of her death. And in the other, you have her estranged husband.
Now, what`s crucial to this case will be whether or not that relationship with her husband was, indeed, active at the time. Quite frankly, it wasn`t.
Sources very close to Jim Carrey indicate to me that he was in a loving relationship with Cathriona White at the time of her suicide.
But regardless of the sordid nature of the relationship, the very big question that looms large over this case is the prescription drugs issue,
and the lawsuit filed by Mark Burton. He alleges that Jim Carrey obtained a number of prescription drugs under the pseudonym Arthur King, which,
according to Mark Burton, says, he gave them to White, quote, despite the fact that he knew fully well that she was ill equipped to ingest and manage
the highly addictive prescription drugs.
Now, what I can tell you is that when she was found by the Los Angeles County Coroner`s Department, she was found with a lethal cocktail of
prescription pills, including propranolol, Zolpidem, oxycodone, and oxymorphine. Some of those drugs in the lawsuit, it`s alleged, were
obtained under the pseudonym Arthur King.
PINSKY: Yeah, Dylan, that`s Ambien and Percocet for people that are more familiar with those names. And again, as I have screening at these cameras
for many years now, why physicians would ever prescribe an opiate and a benzodiazepine is so mysterious to me. So battling.
But, Dylan, the thing that`s baffling to me is this -- this habit or this practice of allowing celebrities to get things like prescriptions under
pseudonyms. We saw this with friends. We are seeing it now here. How is that able to go on and on? It`s seems like it`s business. It`s some sort of
standard practice and it is so unethical.
HOWARD: Not only is it unethical, but it`s also I indicative of what seems to be going on inside Hollywood among the elite. As you mentioned, Prince
obtaining prescription drugs under pseudonyms. Not only that, Michael Jackson, but of course this has been dating back decades. True to Liz
Taylor who had a deadly dose of prescription pills at one point during her health struggles.
PINSKY: Let`s go back to Marilyn Monroe. That`s really where we`re talking about, that`s how far back it goes. But my question, Sara, is it legal? If
it`s legal, why is it legal?
AZARI: Well, it is -- so, to use an alias is absolutely legal, but there`s a couple problems, not only like you said it`s unethical and whoever the
physician is going to get his license yanked by the California Medical Board.
PINSKY: But if it`s not illegal, why?
AZARI: No, because -- because there`s another issue. When you`re dealing with these drugs that are highly abused like Percocet, like Ambien, the DEA
and other regulatory agencies have a way through the system where the information about the drugs has to be entered so that we know what doctor
prescribed them, what pharmacies are filling the prescriptions, so that we can prevent people from doctor shopping.
PINSKY: But, Sara.
AZARI: . and pharmacy hopping.
PINSKY: But, Sara, isn`t that why it is unethical and should be illegal?
AZARI: That`s exactly why there`s a problem with this. It`s not that using an alias -- because using an alias protects somebody`s privacy. If the
person has AIDS and takes HIV medication or, you know, some other medication and they don`t want the public to know that they have that
particular ailment, well, it`s okay to use an alias. The problem is the nature of these drugs.
PINSKY: Well, that for sure, and Areva, you seemed surprised when I told you it was legal, and I would argue that the system should be good enough
to maintain the confidentiality if you`re taking any medication that you don`t want anybody to know about.
AREVA MARTIN, ATTORNEY: I think that`s a huge problem, Dr. Drew, with the concept that you can get drugs under an assumed name, and I think this case
is a good example of the problem here. What happened in a case like this?
Clearly the ex-husband`s going to have some issues with foreseeability and causation, but we don`t know enough to know whether Jim Carrey, in fact,
did know that his ex-girlfriend had a problem with addictive drugs, if she was depressed, if she was prone to take these drugs, and if he did know
that, what level of responsibility did he have not to -- or to make sure that she didn`t get access to them.
So there are lots of facts that I don`t know, but I applaud this ex-husband for at least moving forward because the only way we`re going to put an end
to these situations that we keep seeing around these illegal drugs is if we continue to push in the legal system.
PINSKY: Dylan, were you trying to get in here with something?
HOWARD: Well, this is not a case about Jim Carrey allegedly getting drugs under a pseudonym. This is about whether or not those drugs were supplied
to the tragic woman who ultimately took her life and whether he knew about that. That is a crime in itself.
PINSKY: I agree. I agree. I think -- well, I`m gonna tell you where it belongs. And Stacy, maybe you have a comment about this, but I think the
responsibility goes back to the prescribing physician. That`s the person who needs to know who he or she is prescribing to and what their
liabilities are.
This is -- people are dying more frequently of that combination of medication than they are of almost any other cause of death in this
country, particularly young people.
AZARI: But I also -- I also.
[19:30:00] PINSKY: Wait, wait. I want Stacy.
KAISER: Yeah, 100 percent, that is what`s happening. And what a lot of people don`t realize because they`re using drugs that they get from other
people, I see this all the time, is that they end up taking an upper and then they take a downer and that combination is deadly.
I do think that the responsibility is in the hands of the physicians. I think there are not enough laws and what not in order to regulate what`s
going on, but I also think that the public, as, you know, they`re not educated. I have people on a regular basis, if I say I`m stressed out, they
open their purses and say, do you want a valium?
PINSKY: Wow.
KAISER: And I think that`s something that people need to know should not be done, is not safe.
PINSKY: What`s wrong with our culture? But go ahead, Sara, it is where you come in.
AZARI: Yeah, you know, I disagree with Areva a little bit, because looking at Jim Carrey`s liability, we`re assuming that, number one, he knew about
her history and her addiction and her suicidal tendencies, etc. But secondly, you know, having had personal and professional experience with
addiction and addicts, you know, I have to say that she could -- she could have very well have taken these from his home.
In fact, there was a text message where he inquired about where these pills were. So, I -- I`m a little skeptical about whether he actually furnished
these with the knowledge of her history or that somehow she took them because with addiction comes lying, cheating, and stealing.
PINSKY: I just want to say, I completely agree with you, Sara. Of course that`s the nature of the disease. And again, I think Jim Carrey`s sort of a
part of the collateral damage but -- but allegedly responsible (ph).
MARTIN: I just want to say, clearly, we don`t have enough facts, Sara, at this point to know whether there`s liability or not. I think what the ex-
husband is saying is that there are some suspicious things that happened around this young woman`s death and we need to find out what those things
are.
We do need to find out if he provided the drugs or if she took them on her own, what knowledge he had about any addictive behavior she might have had
prior to her taking the drugs. So, I agree with you. We`re not in a position right now to say he is liable for her death. But I think there`s
enough there to move forward with the lawsuit to see if there is any liability.
PINSKY: Well, the question is, and Dylan, I`ll let you talk to this in a minute, whether or not this is just a money grab. Later, outrage over the
the death of an unarmed black man again at the hands of a white police officer. Did it have to happen? What`s going to happen next? We`ll talk
about it after this.
[19:35:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(START VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Actor Jim Carrey is speaking out against a lawsuit that accuses him of contributing to the death of his ex-girlfriend.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The estranged husband alleges that Jim Carrey gave her prescription medication that ultimately led to her death. Jim Carrey using
a fake name?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s legal in California for a doctor to give a celebrity a prescription using an alias. They believe that she took them
from his home. She had access to his place at least up until a few days earlier when they broke up.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Jim Carrey being sued, his ex-girlfriend`s husband alleges the actor provided transcription medication that contributed to White`s fatal
overdose. Back with Sara, Stacy, Areva, Dylan, Sam Schacher with me as well.
Now, according to the lawsuit, Carrey had the ability to monitor surveillance camera at the home where this woman stayed, White. Her husband
claimed Carrey`s assistants noted that White, the woman, had not moved from the home for more than 24 hours and after learning this, neither the
assistant nor did Carrey alerted authorities.
But Areva, ability to monitor a home does not make him responsible for this woman. We did not what was going on.
MARTIN: Absolutely. There are just too many things that we don`t know about this action, Dr. Drew. But what we are learning, I think, causes us to take
a step back and ask appropriate questions as to how this young woman, who from all accounts, didn`t have any medical problems, why is she with these
very toxic drugs? How did she get them? And who should be held accountable?
So, I think before we, you know, bash the ex-husband, before we bash his lawyer, we have to note that oftentimes, it`s these civil suits that allow
us to get to so many of the answers that we have questions for.
PINSKY: And Sam, I brought you in here because you had something to say about the nature of the marriage to the husband who has issued this
lawsuit.
SAM SCHACHER, HOST OF POP TRIGGER: Right. Well, first of all, I agree, we shouldn`t be bashing anybody, but inadvertently, we are kind of bashing Jim
Carrey. I do think that something doesn`t pass the smell test here, Dr. Drew.
Looking at the marriage, this isn`t a traditional marriage, Jim Carrey`s girlfriend, estranged wife, she was married to him, strictly for a green
card, okay, so they weren`t in love. They didn`t live in the same place. They didn`t even live in the same state.
And as far as her not leaving the house for 24 hours, sometimes I don`t leave the house for 24 hours. And also, I have to mention this. Jim Carrey
did know of her condition. Jim Carrey has talked about that. You know, he.
PINSKY: Talked about her addiction?
SCHACHER: . yes. Yeah, her depression, her addiction. He himself has been very open and very candid about his struggle with depression. And he has
also, according to his attorney, they claim that she took those medications. So, this could very well be a shake down. Let`s remember that
too. I think you said it right, Dr. Drew, that he could be collateral damage too.
PINSKY: Yeah, so Dylan, based on what Sam just said, do you have any corroboration for all that? The whole thing feels like a money grab to me.
What do you say?
HOWARD: Well, Sam`s spot on. Indeed, I can tell you tonight, Dr. Drew, that there is indeed a crucial piece of evidence that will be brought forward as
part of this. These are hours of secretly recorded conversations between the woman and one of her closest friends.
And it plays to both sides for Jim Carrey. On one hand, in that tape that I personally have witnessed and watched, she is saying that, quote, her
marriage to this gentleman is a marriage of convenience. Yet at the same time, she`s also talking about a past suicide attempt in which, quote, she
took over 200 painkillers and slept for days.
That raises the question, was Jim Carrey aware that she had access to the pills, and if so, did he do anything to prevent it before she ultimately
took her life?
[19:40:00] PINSKY: Yeah, well, but I mean, how -- Stacy, let`s talk about the responsibility. I mean, you know, my patients always remind me I`m
super codependent, I blame everybody, and the patients always say, you know, the addict kind of knows what they`re doing. And if she stole these
pills from him, to some extent, she needs to be responsible for her own condition.
KAISER: Yeah. A 100 percent. If you want to kill yourself and you really want to kill yourself, you find a way to do that. And based on the fact
that you guys were just talking about where there was this past thing where she just slept through, you know, the experience, and she didn`t die, she
may have decided that if she was going to do it again, she was going to do it, quote, unquote, right this time.
PINSKY: Or she just wanted to get high. She may just be an addict doing her thing. It happens all the time.
KAISER: A 100 percent, but I don`t hold Jim Carrey responsible for any of this. And I do want to bring up the depression factor because even though
he did know that she was depressed, oftentimes depressed people have cycles where they`re upbeat, they`re feeling good, and so a layperson will think,
oh, they`re fine, they`re not depressed anymore, even though clinically, that is still going on with them.
PINSKY: And Dylan, there was some -- some claims made by the ex-husband that Jim Carrey had offered to pay for this woman`s funeral and that they
were doing it just to paint him as a good guy and he was a pallbearer in the funeral, you can see the pictures, but then he didn`t come through with
those payments. Anything about that?
HOWARD: It`s a claim that`s been denied by people close to Jim Carrey. Indeed in that video that I spoke about, Dr. Drew, sorry, indeed, in a
suicide note that I`m aware of, she begged Jim Carrey to take care of the funeral expenses for her family in her native Ireland.
Sources close to Jim Carrey indicate to me that he very much was a man of his word when it came to that. That`s being disputed by the ex-husband, who
says not only did he cover up her alleged suicide, he also reneged on those promises.
PINSKY: All right. So, we`re all pretty much looking at Jim Carrey as more collateral damage than anything else here. Even if there is some
responsibility, I don`t think it reaches the level of legal liability. Thank you, panel. And Dylan, I want to say thank you. We`re wrapping up our
show in a couple of days and you`ve been a great contributor over the years. I enjoyed working with you. I just want to say thank you for joining
us tonight.
HOWARD: Well, Dr. Drew, this might be the rest -- the last week for you, but I must say, it`s not going to be the last that we see of you because
the conversation and debate that you`ve brought to the table over the last couple of years has been incredibly important. And as I say, this is not
goodbye, this is see you later because I`m very sure that we will see your talents again shortly.
PINSKY: Thank you so much, Dylan. I appreciate that very much. Next up, another shooting of an unarmed black man by a police officer. Why did she
open fire? We`ll talk about it after this.
[19:45:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(START VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: New video just released of a deadly police shooting in Tulsa, Oklahoma, and it is upsetting to watch, to say the least.
(SIRENS)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: On Friday, September 16th, Terence Crutcher was shot and killed by police. Officers responded to a car that was left in the
middle of the road. A woman called, saying a man was running from the vehicle. Crutcher had his hands in the air as he walked back to the car.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Officers say he reached into the driver`s side window. One officer used his stun gun, and another fired a shot.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Terence Crutcher was unarmed. There were no weapons in his SUV. Betty Jo Shelby was the officer who shot and killed him. She has been put
on paid administrative leave. Back with Areva, joining us Eric Guster, civil rights and trial attorney; via Skype, John Cardillo, former NYPD
officer; and Ana Cabrera, CNN correspondent, near the Tulsa Police Department live. Ana, I understand there`s a protest building there now.
ANA CABRERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Right now, you can see a large group gathering behind me. These are folks from the community, community
activists, church leaders, community leaders who are all calling for justice in this case. They want to see the officer who fired the fatal shot
arrested.
Now, those calls coming after police released some video, police video from a police dash cam as well as police helicopter video, which shows the
moments before 40-year-old Terence Crutcher was shot and killed by officer Betty Shelby.
Now, what we see in the video is that Terence Crutcher has his hands up as he`s walking back toward his SUV that is stopped in the middle of a
roadway. You see it`s starting to get dark, and as she`s approaching him, she has her gun drawn and you see several other officers arrive on the
scene.
They end up, in between the dash cam video and Terence Crutcher, so you don`t actually see what he is doing at the moment that those fatal shot --
the fatal shot is fired. There`s also the helicopter video, which gives us a different perspective, and you can see that when he gets to the vehicle,
Crutcher appears to maybe put one of his hands down.
It`s not clear exactly where he puts that hand, and that could prove crucial in this investigation. Again t the helicopter is circling around.
You don`t see, in that shot either, exactly what happens right when she fires a fatal shot.
But I did have a chance to talk to her attorney, who tells me that what you don`t see in the video is that he apparently, according to Shelby, reached
into the vehicle, and this is after he had refused to obey several commands to keep his hands out of his pockets, several commands to stop walking back
towards his vehicle.
And so she had a perceived threat here and feared he was perhaps reaching for a weapon, and that`s why her attorney says she fired.
PINSKY: And Ana, I want to dispose of this other -- it`s sort of at the level of rumor at this point, although the Tulsa world is reporting that
the police found PCP in this gentleman`s vehicle. Have you heard anything about that?
[19:50:00] CABRERA: At this time, that is an unconfirmed report. There are rumors. As you know, this is an ongoing investigation. We have the local
criminal investigation going on into whether or not the use of force was justified. There is also an investigation by the Department of Justice and
Civil Rights Division, looking into whether any civil rights were violated for Terence Crutcher in this case.
They opened their investigation after that video came out and was released by the public. They saw enough there to question her actions. We don`t know
whether any other substances were involved in this situation. We can tell that you the officer according to her attorney had some training in drug
detection, has worked on the narcotics.
She was under the understanding and perception that perhaps Crutcher has something in his system because he was not responding to her questions,
asking if he needed help. We`ll have to wait for the toxicology report to come out to know whether or not that`s the case.
PINSKY: Right. Thank you, Ana. Areva, this is the script that you predicted that they`re following, right?
MARTIN: Yeah, Dr. Drew. We`ve seen so many of these cases. We can almost, you know, describe what`s going to happen by the numbers. There is going to
be a protest which we see. There is going to be a call for in this case, the Justice Department stepping in doing an investigation. The police
places the officer on paid administrative leave. The police say there is an investigation pending. Activists are outraged.
And I don`t know how we ever break through on this issue if we keep doing the same things the same way. We have a man with his hands up in the video,
undisputed, that he appears to be following the commands of the police officer, not posing a threat to anyone.
And even if he is a threat, and we know we are going to hear that from the police, we`re already hearing it from the attorney, there has to be a way
to deal with the situation that doesn`t end with someone life being taken and then after the fact they have to script this that they felt like there
was some danger to him. This is really just becoming overwhelming for the African-American community and for Americans in general.
PINSKY: John, let me speak with you in a second. But I want to hear if Eric agrees on what Areva just said. Eric?
ERIC GUSTER, CIVIL RIGHTS AND TRIAL ATTORNEY: Yes, I totally agree with what Areva just said. The African-American community, we are so tired of
what happens so much. Just like this. We have this man who.
PINSKY: What do we do? What needs to be done? What do we do?
GUSTER: There is a thing called escalation of force that we must use, that the police officer must use. Why were tasers not deployed? There were
several officers right there by him that could have tased him multiple times in order to subdue him if he was a threat.
There was no evidence of a gun. There was no evidence of a weapon. And this officer seemed to overreact. And we see this time and time again where
African-American men are considered threats just because they`re black. And that is a perception and perception as we know is reality.
PINSKY: All right. We got to go for a break. We`ll be right back. We got much more on this.
[19:55:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(START VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have investigations and emotions across the board after an unarmed African-American man is shot and killed by a white police
officer.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Betty Jo, where are you at? No, he`s got his hands up there for her now. Mike, I`m going to hit the recorder. This guy is still
walking and following commands.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Time for taser, I think.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I got a feeling that`s about to happen.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That looks like a bad dude, too, could be on something.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think he may have just been tasered.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Shots fired.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Terence Crutcher, a 40-year-old father of four shot and killed by a white female officer after his SUV broke down. Crutcher was unarmed. The
officer`s attorney alleged he was not following commands and she ultimately feared for her life. Back with Areva, Eric, and John. And, John, today you
tweeted that this was perhaps suicide by cop. Why do you said that?
JOHN CARDILLO, FORMER NYPD OFFICER: Well, I mean, you got to look at the totality of circumstances without emotion. What we also now know is that he
had a past criminal history. And this is relevant because Tulsa area law enforcement sources told me the officers would have been notified that he
had past arrests for resisting armed, convictions for drug trafficking, and arrested for shooting with intent to kill.
And in that area when police officers run a license plate, from what I was told, the vehicle was registered to Terrance Crutcher, they would have been
informed of that. So, now, they have an erratic acting suspect with a history of arrest for violent behavior, armed resisting, not complying,
dropping his arm. It was either heavily -- it was either heavily induced or.
PINSKY: Let me have Areva response. Go ahead, Areva.
MARTIN: I just -- we were watching and listening. Someone in the helicopter said he was following commands. So, John, that seems to be totally
inconsistent with your statement.
CARDILLO: Hold on, but, Areva, it only matters -- hold on. It only matters what he did at the moment immediately preceding being shot. At that point
he dropped his hands.
PINSKY: Let me -- Eric got a look. His hands up. Go ahead, Eric. Go ahead.
GUSTER: This guy just said that it`s suicide by cop. Then he said he wasn`t following commands. That was the most ridiculous statement I`ve ever heard.
We have man whose hands are up. Yes, you are, for this cop who actually murdered someone.
(CROSSTALK)
GUSTER: His hands were up. His hands were up. Why didn`t they use an escalation of force. That is the problem. Police officers just like you do
not believe in using escalation of force when it comes the African-American men. That`s a problem.
(CROSSTALK)
CARDILLO: How much training do you have as a police officer?
GUSTER: I sue cops so I have training in what cops are supposed to do.
PINSKY: Okay, John.
(CROSSTALK)
GUSTER: You asked me with training. I`m telling you.
PINSKY: Hey, guys. John, I`m used to suicide -- when my patients attempt suicide by cops, they rush the police. They come after them. They do.
MARTIN: They don`t put their hands up in the air.
PINSKY: They do but they come forward. They go forward when they`re ready.
CARDILLO: If this guy was under the influence of heavy drugs, he may not have had presence of mind. That was one theory. Also before the PCP
narrative started. But he did wrap his hand and that is very relevant.
[20:00:00] PINSKY: All right. We got to leave it there unfortunately. Thank you all, panel. It`s a great job. Thank you all for watching. Nancy Grace
is up next.
END
