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CNN Diplomatic License

Iraq, U.S. Enter Into War of Words

Aired August 31, 2002 - 04:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

RICHARD ROTH, HOST: If you're a political leader of a country, and did not express your opinion this week on U.S. interests in Iraq, there must be something wrong with you. Welcome to DIPLOMATIC LICENSE. I'm Richard Roth, overlooking the historic old city of Jerusalem on a two nation swing through the Middle East, including Jordan. Political leaders, perhaps emboldened by caution expressed by some members of the Republican Party about the Bush administration's desire for a regime change, came out of the woodwork this week. But first, to set the table, ignition, battle of the vice presidents.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DICK CHENEY, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Some have argued that to oppose Saddam Hussein would cause even greater troubles in that part of the world and interfere with the larger war against terror. I believe the opposite is true. Regime change in Iraq would bring about a number of benefits to the entire region.

TAHA YASSIN RAMADAN, IRAQI VICE PRESIDENT: To start with, we don't care about all the American threats because Iraq has, past and present, heard the threats. On the contrary, we are now safer and more secure because our people are unified and our position is very clear. And world opinion is increasingly refusing the domination and the oppression of the U.S.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ROTH: Iraq got a wave of backing this week from Arab and European nations.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MOHAMMAD KHATAMI, IRANIAN PRESIDENT (through translator): We are opposed to an attack on Iraq as the world of Islam, the Arab world and Europe. This is not because any of us favors Saddam's regime, but because of the consequences of such an attack. The American rulers should start listening to what the world has to say.

ADEL AL-JUBEIR, SAUDI FOREIGN POLICY ADVISER: There is no country in the world that I know of, that supports military action against Iraq at this time.

SHEIKH HAMAD BIN JASSIM AL-THANI, QATARI FOREIGN MINISTER (through translator): We are against any military action. We are always saying that this issue should be solved within the framework of the U.N. and in a diplomatic way. This is our stand in Qatar, and it will remain our logic in Qatar.

HOSNI MUBARAK, EGYPTIAN PRESIDENT (through translator): I said to the U.S. administration if you harm the Iraqi people while the Palestinians are still suffering, it would only fuel the anger of the Arabs. No leader in the Arab world would be able to stop people expressing anger at such a move.

JACQUES CHIRAC, FRENCH PRESIDENT (through translator): We can see a temptation for some to legitimize the use of unilateral and preventative force. This development is worrying, contrary to France's collective vision of security.

GERHARD SCHROEDER, GERMAN CHANCELLOR (through translator): Germany will not take part in the military intervention, not as long as I am in charge.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ROTH: Britain, the United States' biggest ally back in 1991, said it might be interested in giving Iraq a deadline to permit those weapons inspectors to return to the country, but otherwise refuse to publicly come out and support a military invasion of Iraq.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JACK STRAW, BRITISH FOREIGN SECRETARY: We don't rule out the possibility of military action. And neither in our view should anybody. And it's quite therefore prudent of the United States government not to rule out military action against the Saddam Hussein regime.

ROTH: Time now to check in with our DIPLOMATIC LICENSE correspondents following the action in Baghdad and the traveling summer White House in the United States. First, with CNN's James Martone in the Iraqi capital.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JAMES MARTONE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It's ongoing diplomacy here in Iraq, where almost everyone, from ordinary citizens to high ranking officials, say they think some sort of strike from the United States is probably unavoidable. Now the president of the country, Saddam Hussein, has said any attack by the U.S. would be as he put it, an attack on the entire Arab nation. The president said that his country has complied with U.N. weapons resolutions and that an attack would be unjustified. He says his country has no weapons of mass destruction.

Iraq says it has no more weapons of mass destruction such as chemical and biological weapons. To prove the point, international journalists are being taken to several sites here, suspected by the U.S. of housing banned weapons materials. So far, we haven't found any. The mounting calls by the Bush administration for action has sales down at this market, where mothers say they're buying less back to school items for their kids, preparing to save the money for perhaps difficult times ahead. Iraqi representatives are being sent abroad, including the country's foreign minister, and even vice president, to rally support in Iraq's standoff with Washington. An increasing number of countries, especially Muslim and Arab nations, say they would be greatly opposed to any U.S. attacks on Iraq. Even one time foes of Baghdad, like Iran and Syria, have voiced their opposition to any U.S. attacks on Iraq.

For DIPLOMATIC LICENSE, this is James Martone in Baghdad.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KELLY WALLACE, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well aware of growing criticism at home and abroad, Bush advisers are trying to stress that President Bush has not made any decisions about military action against Iraq. They say when he makes a decision, he will make the case to the American people, the U.S. Congress, and to skeptical U.S. allies.

In the meantime, Vice President Dick Cheney continues making the argument for preemptive action against Iraq. In his speech to Korean War veterans in Texas on Thursday, the vice president basically repeated word for word what he said earlier in the week. He said the world simply cannot wait for the day when Saddam Hussein acquires nuclear weapons. And he also said the international community could not rest, even if U.N. weapons inspectors are allowed one day back inside Iraq.

But a chief architect to the 1991 Gulf War against Iraq, former Secretary of State James Baker, is urging the Bush administration to go to the United Nations before pursuing any military action. Baker wrote in an opinion piece in "The New York Times" recently, "Seeking new authorization now is necessary, politically and practicallly, and will help build international support."

Now there is a discussion going on within the Bush administration about whether to seek a U.N. Security Council Resolution for an inspections regime inside Iraq, backed by force. This is a way to bolster the case for toppling Saddam Hussein, but one aide cautions the president is looking at many issues and absolutely has not made any decisions.

For DIPLOMATIC LICENSE, I'm Kelly Wallace in Little Rock, Arkansas.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ROTH: And what about where I am. Jordan, again, caught in the middle between the U.S. and Iraq, two places Jordan would like to stay friends with, as long as possible.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

(voice-over): The traditional Muslim call to prayer, religion in the air throughout the hills of Amman.

But also on display here, the secular life of Jordan. Capitalism with a tasty American influence. Jordanians may love the fried chicken, but feel any U.S. plot to attack Iraq is half baked.

MARWAN MUASHER, JORDANIAN FOREIGN MIN.: We are against the war, certainly. And we feel that we have enough at our hands to deal with regarding this situation in the West Bank. We do not need another war in the area.

ROTH: Jordanians have a lot to lose from a U.S. war on Iraq. These trucks are loaded with Jordan's lifeblood, oil from Iraq, the country's supplier since Jordan has no oil fields. Half of the oil is free. The rest, sold at discounted prices. Government officials say a supply cutoff would be disastrous to the country. But war would also result in a huge wave of refugees into Jordan.

But what annoys Arabs here is a sense that the U.S. has the wrong priority.

MUSTAFA HAMARNEH, CENTER FOR STRATEGIC STUDIES: What's happening in the United States is that these belligerent, gungho, Cold warriors now are in the front, making U.S. policy and determining U.S. actions in the Middle East.

ROTH: At the national office of the Fundamentalist Islamic Brotherhood, praise for the American people, but not their leaders and a warning.

HAMZA MANSOUR, PRES., ISLAMIC BROTHERHOOD: There is no peace if America hits Iraq. There is no peace. There will be struggle. It may be for long years.

ROTH: A touring U.S. diplomat got a warm reception in Amman. But to the frustration of most Arab governments, the Bush administration appears to believe Iraq can be a target while trying to make peace in the Middle East.

DAVID SATTERFIELD, DEP. U.S. ASST. SECY. OF STATE: I believe that Iraq, while a very serious issue, does not affect the fundamental questions at stake between Israelis and Palestinians.

ROTH: In a nationwide speech, the King of Jordan said he opposes a strike on Iraq, but added, "Baghdad must bear final responsibility for its decisions."

In the last Gulf War, Jordan sided with Iraq. And many Jordanian citizens believe their king should do the same now.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Our people should stick to our people. They should not go with Israel. They should not go with America. All the Arabs should stick together as one.

ROTH (on camera): Jordan's foreign minister was his country's ambassador to Washington for many years, which gives him some added perspective on the conflict. MARWAN MUASHER, JORDANIAN FOREIGN MIN.: I think, you know, the opposition to the war has been throughout the entire world, and not just the Arab region. And I think that the United States needs to listen to its Arab allies, not because of any support for, you know, the Iraqi regime, but because as I said, a war against Iraq is going to be harmful to the interests of the region.

ROTH: The current U.S. president's father built this grand coalition. This administration appears to say, "We don't need it." Are they wrong?

MUASHER: I think, as I said, an international consensus is important. And during the Gulf War, there was such a consensus by Arab states and by international community as well. And the international community is sounding the alarm bell that Washington needs to consult, before it takes action. And we believe it should do so.

ROTH: Do you feel Washington is listening enough to the Arab voice?

MUASHER: We have made our view very clear to the U.S. president and to the administration on the issue of Iraq. We still are unafraid to have differences on that point.

ROTH: Does Secretary of States Power listen to your voice and say, "Listen, I'm trying, but they don't want to listen, the hawks in the Bush administration?"

MUASHER: We've been talking to all people in the U.S. administration. I think there is a -- an internal debate in the United States itself about war on Iraq. And this does not extend necessarily to the State Department, Pentagon sort of rivalry. But there have been important Republicans counseling the need to -- for caution. People like Secretary Baker, people like Brent Scowcroft. And I think that it's a healthy debate and one that should take place. And I think that as allies of the United States, we owe it to the them to explain that this is a negative development for the region, and one that should not be taken without first giving every possible chance for diplomacy to succeed.

ROTH: Citizens of Jordan watched the trail of those scud missiles overhead on their way to Israel in 1991. Israel did not retaliate at that time. What about next time? More from Jerusalem and DIPLOMATIC LICENSE when we return.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ROTH: Back now in Jerusalem on our DIPLOMATIC LICENSE two country hop. With us now, a former ambassador to the United Nations, and now an adviser to Israeli prime minister Ariel Sharon. He's Dore Gold. Thank you very much for joining us.

DORE GOLD, SENIOR SHARON ADVISER: My pleasure.

ROTH: I was here in Israel in 1991, specifically in Tel Aviv. Several scud missiles were lobbed in by Iraq. You've heard earlier in our program various world leaders condemning the possibility of a U.S. assault. What's Israel's opinion on Saddam Hussein and his government and the U.S plotting?

GOLD: Well, Iraq has a very bad track record in this region. Israel was not only the -- a country that was struck by scud missiles, but back in '91, also Bahrain and Saudi Arabia. During the Iran-Iraq War, missiles rained in Tehran from Iraq, the same al Hussein 650 kilometer range rocket. And therefore, Iraq poses a problem for many states in this region, including Israel.

ROTH: In 1991, Israel then led by Prime Minister Shamir (ph), did not retaliate. What will Israel do now, if that's known?

GOLD: Well, that's probably a subject best addressed by the prime minister or the defense minister. And it's not something we really speak about. Israel knows how to defend itself. It actually has the only operational missile defense system in the world, ready to protect this country. And Israel will do what is necessary to defend its population.

ROTH: Is there a lot of planning, considering that Israel has a lot to worry about regarding Palestinian problems and other issues? Is there a lot of Iraq thinking and planning going on?

GOLD: Well, Israel has had a lot of experience with these issues. You know, the Egyptians were the first to use chemical weapons in combat in the Yemen War in the early 1960s. The Iraqis, of course, used chemical weapons against their own Kurdish population, against Iranian forces. So Israeli security people have had time to think about the threats of chemical and biological weapons. And they've prepared the country.

ROTH: What is the mood of the country? There have been chemical training exercises, and again the gas masks, similar to 1990 and other times in the last decade or so. Is there a different sense of -- not complacency, but we've been there, done that, we're ready? Or what's the sense?

GOLD: Well, I think everyone knows that 2002 is different from 1991. Iraq has been under U.N. inspection for many years, although since '98, it's been free of those inspections. Many of Iraq's weapons were destroyed during the decade of the 1990s. I think many Israelis are focused on the Palestinian threat and the possibility of the Palestinians will use catastrophic terrorism at one point in time.

ROTH: Arab countries last time were quite supportive of the U.S. effort. This time, a lot of opposition. What's wrong with what -- what do the leaders of France, Germany and elsewhere, what are they missing that Israel knows regarding Iraq?

GOLD: Well, I think all the countries in the region who have faced a threat of Iraq understand the dangers Saddam Hussein is a leader with a very bad reputation. And he not only possesses weapons of mass destruction, but has actually used them. And therefore, should he reach a nuclear capability or improved biological and chemical capabilities, that's a threat from many countries in this part of the world.

I think many people are used to the fact that the main threats to global security in the last century came from the European continent. Should only come from the Middle East, and therefore, people have to focus on this region much differently than they did before.

ROTH: In Jordan, they were telling me that this U.S. drive to get rid of Saddam Hussein is masterminded by the Israelis.

GOLD: Well, the problem, of course, of Iraq is not an Israeli issue. It's a problem with the entire United Nations Security Council. Iraq is violating Chapter 7 resolutions of the U.N. These are the most severe resolutions that exist in the U.N. system. And if Iraq can get away with violating its U.N. Security Council Resolution 687, a cease-fire resolution, from '91 and build weapons of mass destruction, it's not just a threat to Israel. It's a threat to the United Nations itself.

ROTH: Dore Gold, special adviser to Prime Minister Sharon. Thank you for being here on DIPLOMATIC LICENSE overlooking Jerusalem.

GOLD: My pleasure.

ROTH: This week, another former U.N. ambassador, Richard Holbrooke said the road to Baghdad leads to the United Nations Security Council. The Clinton administration envoy believes approval of a new resolution, or even just attempting one, would in the end, earn the Bush administration more support for an Iraq operation.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RICHARD HOLBROOKE, FMR. U.S. AMB. TO U.N.: It puts people who support their objective in an awkward position, to see them going about it without due consideration for the interests and concerns of our most important allies around the world, from Turkey, to Great Britain, to Saudi Arabia. We need to talk to them more. And we need to build up their support. And one of the key ways to do this, of course, is through the Security Council of the United Nations.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ROTH: With three permanent members of the U.N. Security Council coming out this week against a military invasion of Iraq, it's unclear the prospects for a new resolution. And in the past, the Bush administration and the Clinton administration has shown it doesn't need the U.N. to use military force. Holbrooke says any attempt will show the U.S. at least tried.

Coming up, two journalists from two nations on the Iraq climate in the Mideast when DIPLOMATIC LICENSE returns from Jerusalem.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

RANDA HABIB, AGENCE FRANCE PRESSE: ...sandwich between the Palestinian territory and Iraq. It can't be worse than that geographically. At the same time, it will have to choose between two of its main trade partners, which is the U.S. and whatever side Jordan would take, Jordan will have to count its losses. So obviously, it will stand by the U.S. because of the strategic relation that it has politically, economically, it's a trap.

ROTH: What about the mood of the people here?

HABIB: The people are scared, but angry at the same time. A lot of them think that this is unfair. What did Saddam Hussein do? This is what they say. But at the same time, the -- this population is 50 percent of Palestinian origin. And Saddam Hussein has made it a point in the past two years since the second uprising, Palestinian uprising, to champion this Palestinian cause, to help financially the families of suicide bombers, etcetera.

So they see him as the last of those nationalistic Arab leaders, who still talk like in the '50s against the U.S. and against Israel. And still, some people here in Jordan want that.

ROTH: Do the people of Jordan fully support their government's position on handling this crisis?

HABIB: Well, I don't think so. And I think that's why the government had been banning the demonstrations. But at the same time, the point that the government is making is that if they would listen to the people, or at least the ones among them who shout the loudest, which are the leftist and the Islamists, asking for the closure of the Israeli embassy and kicking out the Israeli ambassador, they say this would be a catastrophe for Jordan, because the best guarantee for Jordan, for its border, for its survival is to continue respecting this -- these treaties signed in '94.

ROTH: And now I'm back across the border in Israel. Here in Jerusalem for more of an international perspective on the Iraq crisis. Lorenzo Cremonesi joins me from Corriere della Sera. He's been here 16 years throughout, covering the Mideast. What do you think is the mood here as talk of war between the U.S. and Iraq continues?

LORENZO CREMONESI, CORRIERE DELLA SERA: Well, the mood obviously changed. The country was quite calm until three, four weeks ago. Lately, they are really talking on the possibility, more and more, of a war. And of course, they're talking about retaliation in much (UNINTELLIGIBLE) than 10 years ago. Ten years ago was almost obvious that Israel would have not acted. Today it's quite obvious that Israel will answer, will attack in case it will be bombed.

ROTH: Do the people here in Israel support their government when it comes to Iraq policy?

CREMONESI: I think, yes, absolutely, yes. There is a clear mood of revenge. It is clear reading editorials, talking to people that if Sharon will answer, and will (UNINTELLIGIBLE), it will be announcement with interest, (UNINTELLIGIBLE) interest. And I really don't think there will be a reaction if Sharon will attack back Iraq.

ROTH: As a reporter, do you have a sense of we've been here before, we've done this, it's a virtual replay? Is there anything different?

CREMONESI: Well, in a way, you are right. It's really (UNINTELLIGIBLE) expectation. Talk people -- people talking about what's going to happen, what will happen, what the Americans will do. There are some differences. For instance, it's clear that if no international coalition as 10 years ago. It's clear that the Arabs are not on the side of Israel as it happened 10 years ago. Israel still much more isolated in the region. And in a way, much closer to the Bush administration.

So there is the idea that it's Israel and America against the Arabs.

ROTH: Those reporters will be on the front lines in the Mideast, should another tussle erupt between Iraq and the United States. DIPLOMATIC LICENSE returns to New York next week, as September 11 nears and a specially timed U.N. General Assembly debate.

I'm Richard Roth for DIPLOMATIC LICENSE in Jerusalem. Thanks for watching.

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