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D.L. Hughley Breaks The News
Legalize Marijuana?; Bowling vs. Basketball
Aired March 28, 2009 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(APPLAUSE)
D.L.HUGHLEY, CNN HOST: Energetic. All energetic. You guys are wonderful. Great, great.
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HUGHLEY: Well, oh, please.
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HUGHLEY: Well...
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HUGHLEY: Well...
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HUGHLEY: Well, you know what? That's it. The show's over. You all used all the time clapping.
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HUGHLEY: I'm glad you guys came. Thank you for coming out. We have -- we have a wonderful show for you. We have a lot of surprises. First, I went to San Francisco to talk to people about legalizing pot in California. They are trying to legalize pot. Then I'll speak with a guy who is against legalizing pot. And I'm going to ask him, are you crazy?
And since our last -- this is our last show, we're going to look back at some of our favorite guests and comedy pieces, like when I went to the Sarah Palin rally with -- let me tell you, I had a lot of fun. They didn't have any hair product for me. I was like -- we have electricity and tape. That's what we have for you.
And, of course, President Obama. He was on "Jay Leno" last week. A little controversy. We have that?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I've been practicing bowling.
JAY LENO, HOST, "THE TONIGHT SHOW WITH JAY LENO": Really? Really? OBAMA: I bowl a 129.
(LAUGHTER and APPLAUSE)
OBAMA: Yes, I have.
LENO: Oh, no, that's very good. Yes. That's very good, Mr. President.
OBAMA: It was like Special Olympics or something.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUGHLEY: You know the line Special Olympics got everybody upset. People got all worked up. They really were mad. And you know, people get mad about stuff, like in the movie "Tropic Thunder," they used the word retard. Remember that? They tried to organize a rally and boycott the movie. I thought if you can organize a rally and boycott, he wasn't talking to you. You know what I mean?
(LAUGHTER)
HUGHLEY: And then Obama was on "60 Minutes" and he raised some more eyebrows.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OBAMA: The only thing less popular than putting money in the banks is putting money in the auto industry.
STEVE KROFT, HOST, "60 MINUTES": You're sitting here. And you're -- you are laughing about some of these problems. Are people going to look at this and say, "I mean, he's sitting there just making jokes about money." How do you deal with -- I mean, explain the -- your mood and your laughter.
OBAMA: Yes, I mean, there's got to be...
KROFT: Are you punch-drunk?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUGHLEY: You ever had a situation so bad you had to laugh? Like you look at your signal -- ha, ha, ha, ha. I cannot live off this.
(LAUGHTER)
HUGHLEY: Well, you don't know that because you ain't in college or school yet. But when you are. You know what's so amazing? A couple of weeks ago, people were upset with him because he was so dour about the economy and they were like, oh, he's bringing us down. And now, they're sick because he's laughing. I just don't understand it.
Well, you know, of course, everybody is experiencing budget crisis. My home state in California is having big budget troubles. And some of us suggested that they legalize marijuana, and not just for medicinal, but for recreation. And so what I did was, I booked a ticket immediately to California to find out what was going on. Take a look at this.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
HUGHLEY (voice over): The economy is in crisis and nothing the government does seems to work. But Assemblyman Tom Ammiano has a bold, new plan for California.
ASSEMBLYMAN TOM AMMIANO, CALIFORNIA: We know that the marijuana industry probably nets in California alone $14 billion, and we think we need to capture some of that income.
HUGHLEY: I hit San Francisco's famous Haight-Ashbury neighborhood to find out what people think of the idea of legalizing and taxing marijuana.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think that's a good idea.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think that's awesome.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think that's fantastic.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: People use it anyway.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's already out of control anyway. Why not legalize it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Who doesn't smoke weed?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We need something to get our economy out of the toilet.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But I don't want them to tax it. You think I want it taxed? I'm paying it as it is, man. (INAUDIBLE) I need a discount.
HUGHLEY: I spoke to Bruce Mirken of the Marijuana Policy Project, a group which seeks to legalize and regulate marijuana. He underlines how this proposition can help California's economy.
BRUCE MIRKEN, SPOKESMAN, MARIJUANA POLICY PROJECT: We know that this is a huge industry. We know that every year about 15 million Americans tell government survey takers that they used marijuana in the last month. That's a huge market. That's more people in this country than will buy a new car or truck this year or bought one last year. And this huge market right now is completely untaxed and it doesn't make any sense.
HUGHLEY (on camera): But it does have a bit of an image problem. It does. I mean, you know, the classic image of marijuana. All kinds of (INAUDIBLE). The people who smoke weed on video or like your Cheech and Chong mentality.
MIRKEN: You know, when you think about people who have acknowledged having smoke marijuana, we're talking about the last three presidents of the United States, the mayor of New York City, the governor of California. There's somebody -- a friend of mine recently said, "Marijuana seems to be a gateway drug to becoming president."
HUGHLEY (voice over): However, (INAUDIBLE) marijuana isn't allowed in California, but this know marijuana is, and I visited Oakland's Harborside Health Center, with names like white rhino, purple cotton candy and kush. If you're looking for a type of weed, they got it.
(on camera): Now, this is like the Baskin-Robbins of (INAUDIBLE). I mean, you've got 31 different flavors, right?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have more than 31 different flavors.
HUGHLEY: You have more than 31?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We provide -- we pride ourselves on providing a full selection, or we try to provide a full range of strengths and a full range of different forms of the medicine so every patient can get what works best for them.
HUGHLEY: And here at Harborside, unlike most of America, business is booming.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We blossomed, as they say, from very small, from four counters to eight counters, double in size. Plus many staff.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The recession hasn't quite hit us.
HUGHLEY: No?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We've been doing pretty good.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: During times of economic stress, people turn to things that help relieve the stress and this is a great stress reliever.
HUGHLEY: The state of California does receive some funds from the sale of marijuana?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They receive over $100,000 a month from this facility alone.
HUGHLEY: This is better than a casino, man.
(voice over): And the employees at Harborside are always helpful.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I love working here. It's the greatest place ever.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is definitely something I'm extremely cautious about. I know that played in .
HUGHLEY (on camera): How much does it cost to super size? UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: To super size?
HUGHLEY: This is the first place I've ever been with a line for people waiting for them where they weren't mad and angry. This is the most mellow line I've ever seen. And you guys should work for the DMV.
(voice over): Here, they even have the cannabis equivalent of a (INAUDIBLE).
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Then the color is nice and even and purple throughout the whole thing. You can see the leaves have all been trimmed off of it, so.
HUGHLEY (on camera): Nice and dry.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Dry crumbs. Our general rule is we want the stem to snap so the stem has a distinctive snap to it, but not to be so dry that if you rub it, that the shape would start to come off.
HUGHLEY: So, you're the kind of Ernest and Julio Gallo of can. Serve no bud before it's time.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes. We consider ourselves cannasaurus (ph).
HUGHLEY (voice over): People who are against the marijuana think it's a front for addicts to get their fix. But we met a lot of people with serious ailments.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I have carpal tunnel in both hands.
HUGHLEY: Carpal tunnel in both hands.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I've been HIV-positive for 26 years.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It helps with the medication that I have to take and the nausea that cause this once I take the medication.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It helps me with my eating habits and it relaxes me.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It helps my pain. It also helps the uptightness a little bit.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's wonderful.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don't want to see no one go to jail for this.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HUGHLEY: Next, we're talking about more pot. Is it a gateway enemy topic?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) HUGHLEY: My next guest is the president of the National Narcotics Officers Association Coalition. Please welcome Ronald Brooks.
How are you doing, Mr. Brooks?
RONALD BROOKS, PRESIDENT, NARCOTICS OFFICERS ASSN. COALITION: I'm doing fine, D.L. Thanks for having me.
HUGHLEY: So, we are a heavily medicated country. Drugs, painkillers, coffee. Why should -- why should marijuana be different?
BROOKS: You know, marijuana should -- I'm not saying that it should be different, but what we should realize is that we got tremendous problem with our two legal drugs, alcohol and tobacco. We all know people who have lost their lives to chronic disease associated with tobacco use. We all know people who have lost their families and their livelihoods and their health due to alcoholism. And so, I think our point is, why would we want to legalize something else that's a powerful and addicting drug that creates health and other public safety issues?
HUGHLEY: OK. But alcohol is obviously more destructive than marijuana, wouldn't we agree on that?
BROOKS: No. You know, I'm not sure that I would agree on that. I mean, if you look at the stats of the kids 12 to 18 that are in drug and alcohol treatment, 65 percent are in there for marijuana. We know that marijuana...
HUGHLEY: Wait. 65 percent and alcohol at the same time, right?
BROOKS: No.
HUGHLEY: Not just marijuana? Is this right?
BROOKS: Yes. Just marijuana. And if we look at it, we know the kids that suffer from depression, it triggers suicidal thoughts and more depressive thoughts. We know the kids that suffer from attention deficit issues, ADHD and ADD, that it triggers those incidents. We know that it triggers schizophrenia. We know that it reduces immune systems.
HUGHLEY: Wait, wait. And under the influence of prescription drugs, too, right? Here's the thing, that almost every symptom that you described -- that described to me, I'm high now...
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HUGHLEY: ...is on the bottle of prescription medication or on the bottle of alcohol. They're the same symptoms. And so, I would wonder how you would differentiate between what is alcohol related and what is specifically marijuana related. Not that I'm arguing. Well, I'm arguing.
BROOKS: You are arguing. But that's a great question. But the fact is that in places where we have studied these issues and marijuana is tougher to detect for state troopers on the highway. A lot of drugs are. Alcohol is a little easier to detect.
HUGHLEY: Right.
BROOKS: We're just opening another door of intoxication.
HUGHLEY: But, listen, I wouldn't want a pilot or a bus driver or a police officer under the influence of cough medicine either. I really wouldn't. I wouldn't want them under the influence of any number of things. And I'm not suggesting that everybody be able to just access it just at will. I think that it should be under the same restrictions as alcohol.
BROOKS: Well, I think really the science is, though, I mean, if you look at a lot of the studies, including the Institute of Medicine Study, you know, marijuana is addictive and it is dangerous. We have a hard time controlling alcohol. Why would we want to open another door? And if we look at the kind of ravage that happens on our nation's college campuses by binge drinking and alcoholism, teen and young adult alcoholism, why do we want to open another door to another addicting and powerful drug?
HUGHLEY: OK.
BROOKS: I mean, we're talking about marijuana now that, you know, in the '60s and '70s had a THC content of a percent or a percent-and-a-half, and now can run as high as the, you know, low 20s.
HUGHLEY: Let me ask you something. What about the argument that it could potentially help the economy?
BROOKS: Well, you know, we know that 15 million people use it, but we also know that teen use of marijuana is down to one of its all- time lows. So it's not like the use has crept up...
HUGHLEY: Because (INAUDIBLE) answer the survey.
BROOKS: Yes. And so, you know, the issue is then, we may gain some tax money, but what happens for all of the people that go into drug treatment, for all of the people that go into the court systems, for the people that develop chronic health disease because of marijuana and other drugs that it may lead to. Not with every person that uses it, but we certainly know there's a gateway potential for this drug.
HUGHLEY: There's a judge, a retired Orange County Supreme -- Superior Court Justice James Gray. He says that by decriminalizing marijuana in terms of -- and seizing to arrest and prosecute and imprison nonviolent offenders, the state could save a billion dollars. He's estimating a billion dollars.
There's also certain studies that show the Netherlands, which, you know, which obviously has legalized marijuana, that 42 percent of Americans have admitted they used -- that they've used marijuana. Only 20 percent of the residents of the Netherlands admitted that they use marijuana. So even where it's available, people just aren't using it like that.
BROOKA: Yes. If you go to the Netherlands and see people in the ash or pot cafes, they're sitting around watching cartoons and eating Twinkies. It's a sad situation.
HUGHLEY: It's like you're following me around.
BROOKS: I mean, this -- you know, it's easy for us all to make light of marijuana.
HUGHLEY: Right.
BROOKS: But I can tell you, you know, it's our members, we represent 70,000 cops around the country. It's our members that have to go tell parents, "Hey, I'm sorry your kid died of a drug overdose." Not going to die of a marijuana overdose, but if it leads to other drugs, "Hey, I'm sorry that your kid was killed in a traffic vehicle accident that was related to drugs, maybe marijuana." "I'm sorry your kid was caught on a street corner."
You know, even if you buy the legalization argument, if you don't make it 100 percent available, 100 percent cheap and 100 percent pure, there's always going to be a black market. We've seen that with tobacco. We have seen it with alcohol. And we will continue to have abuse...
HUGHLEY: But even with alcohol. Certainly, people will buy black market alcohol because of pricing or cigarettes because of pricing. But, obviously, this is a drug that's going to be around, that people are going to have access to. Why wouldn't the government at least seek to regulate it to some degree?
Because we see that decriminalize or making it criminal hasn't work. The war on drugs hasn't worked and particularly with this particular drug, it hasn't worked. There are more people in jail for non-violent drug-related offenses. The -- obviously, the usage isn't abating. So, the fight that we're having is not effective. So, why continue to have...
BROOKS: Well, you know, I don't think the science and the stats show that, though. I mean, I really think that if you look at all of the stats published by ONDCP...
HUGHLEY: Right.
BROOKS: ...teen drug use is way down. The only place for teen drug use is up is the use of pharmaceuticals.
HUGHLEY: But that's still drug use.
BROOKS: Yes.
HUGHLEY: I mean, that's still drug use.
BROOKS: I mean, if we're talking about the issue of marijuana, marijuana use is down and we made great strides on this. Great strides with cocaine and meth, ecstasy and marijuana. You know, we have made significant impact. If we look at people that are in jail, only 16 percent of the total United States prison population is in jail for a drug offense. Of that, only 3 percent are in jail for marijuana, only 1 percent are in jail for marijuana possession.
And I can tell you from experience that, that 1 percent was somebody that got caught dealing weed or having weed possessed for sale and then got that plea bargain down. I mean, I think we're really opening the door that while it's fun to have this debate, we're going to lose kids. It's going to increase health care costs and public safety costs and it's really a bad, you know, public policy decision.
HUGHLEY: You actually think that -- this is not to be facetious, you actually think that legalizing marijuana -- and I'm not -- certainly, children shouldn't have access to any number of things. That wouldn't be the argument anyway. But a responsible adult, you're trying to say that he instead of having a glass of wine, he couldn't come home like even if his back were hurting --
(LAUGHTER)
HUGHLEY: And a responsible adult in the privacy of his own home shouldn't be able to have access to marijuana?
BROOKS: Yes.
HUGHLEY: Well, we agree to disagree. Thank you, man.
BROOKS: Thank you. Bye, bye.
HUGHLEY: Thank you, Ronald. Thank you for being on the show.
Next, we'll see how close I got to Sarah Palin.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HUGHLEY: Last fall in the heat of the presidential campaign, I went to North Carolina to hear Sarah Palin speak and see what the fuss was all about.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
HUGHLEY (on camera): We are here for the Sarah Palin rally now. I normally would like to go someplace called a rally, particularly in the South. But, You know, I'm here, because Sarah is running for vice president. And she has galvanized an entire base. So we are coming to see what's got everybody so excited.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Rally towels! Rally towels!
HUGHLEY (voice-over): As I approached the venue, I could see the crowd was very diverse. White people, white people with mustaches and white women with visors. I learned that Palin supporters, although not the best spellers...
(on camera): Where's the A at?
(voice-over): ...they're doggone committed to their candidate.
(on camera): What did she say to you that made you be able to connect with her in such a way?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Honestly I like her because she -- she can get down on my level a bit easier.
HUGHLEY: She gets down on your level? We are in trouble.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We need a person, a leader, that's a Christian.
HUGHLEY: Didn't we just -- but we just had a leader that was a Christian.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, we need more and more.
HUGHLEY: So we've got to keep doing it?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
HUGHLEY: So how many do we need before we finally go, maybe we can get the best guy?
What did she say that has drawn you here?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, I work here, anyway, so. We're like you.
GOV. SARAH PALIN (R), VICE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: This is not a man who sees America as you and I do. HUGHLEY: How do you think Sarah Palin sees America?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think she sees America as Alaska.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She's a hunter.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She's a fantastic supporter of clean coal.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And she has really connected with the base well.
HUGHLEY: What is the base? How would you describe the base?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The base would be...
HUGHLEY: Would I be the base?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hah! I forgot the question.
HUGHLEY: How do you think Obama sees America?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm not too sure.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, Obama's probably a non-Christian.
HUGHLEY: His America looks more what?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, OK. Black.
HUGHLEY: They put the Obama supporters on time-out. You are a dangerous group. You're a dangerous group with your reading and your education. Your equal rights and your hope.
(voice-over): Governor Palin arrived and electrified the crowd.
PALIN: I'm here to ask you, are you ready to help us carry this state to victory?
(CHEERS AND APPLAUSE)
HUGHLEY: Now the polls are saying she might not prevail this time. But there's always next time.
(on camera): But when I look forward to 2012, what do you think of her having a black running mate?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Who? Palin?
HUGHLEY: Say for instance Sarah Palin and McCain doesn't work. What do you think of her having a black running mate?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Um. Well.
HUGHLEY: Would you consider somebody that was an outsider?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It depends on who her running mate is.
HUGHLEY: What do you think of me for vice president with Sarah Palin 2012?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don't know who you are.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don't know who Hughley is.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don't know you.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think I know who you are.
HUGHLEY (voice-over): I was getting some resistance.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'll pass.
HUGHLEY: But I knew my platform would change hearts and minds.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you believe in cutting taxes?
HUGHLEY (on camera): Absolutely.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You would cut our taxes?
HUGHLEY: Absolutely.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Abortion?
HUGHLEY: I would never have one.
(voice-over): We look different with Sarah. But if you dig deeper, you can see we have a lot of similarities.
(on camera): I come from small-town America. It's Compton, California. That's a small town, too. Compton. It's far away from DC, too.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: True.
HUGHLEY: She likes guns, I like guns.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I love guns.
HUGHLEY: I own guns. Sarah Palin ran the state police in Alaska. I've run from the state police in Los Angeles.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She has a record.
HUGHLEY: I have a record.
(voice-over): Now that people knew me, they were getting hyped about our chances in 2012.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think you guys would rock.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'll back you.
HUGHLEY (on camera): You're my brother.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You got it.
HUGHLEY: Will you wear my button -- Palin-Hughley 2012. Palin- Hughley 2012. Act like you mean it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Palin-Hughley 2012!
HUGHLEY: Yes!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Palin-Hughley, 2012.
HUGHLEY: Come on, give it to me. Palin-Hughley 2012. Palin- Hughley 2012.
CROWD: USA! USA! USA! USA!
HUGHLEY (voice-over): What a day. Everyone had a great time at the Sarah Palin rally. And even learned something.
(on camera): Did you learn anything?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I did. HUGHLEY: What did you learn?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I learned that America is a great place.
HUGHLEY: You didn't know that before you came to the rally?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I did. But it just reinfirmed it.
HUGHLEY: Ah. It reinfirmed it for me, too.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HUGHLEY: And when the election was over, it was time to reflect on the friends we made. And where would they go next?
(VIDEO CLIP)
Next, we look back on my talk with Jesse Jackson Jr. back from his hometown Illinois.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, everyone. Don Lemon here at the CNN world headquarters. We'll get back to "D.L. Hughley Breaks the News" in just a moment. But first, we want to look at your headlines. Extreme weather all across the country today in the upper Midwest. The historic flooding around the Red River. Fargo and other communities are holding their collective breath that the levees don't give out.
Let's go a little bit farther south now. Springtime in the Great Plains buried beneath all of that two feet of snow. What a mess. At least two people dead. And out east, tornadoes tear up parts of North Carolina. More twisters could be on the way.
We have all of your weather, all of the news coming up right at the top of the hour in about 30 minutes.
I'm Don Lemon. I'll see you back here at 11:00 p.m. Eastern. Now back to D.L. HUGHLEY BREAKS THE NEWS. But first, a break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
D.L. HUGHLEY, CNN HOST: Well, after President Obama's election, African-Americans were buzzing about what the first black president would mean for us. I had a personal conversation with Congressman Jesse Jackson Jr. about it. Here it is.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HUGHLEY: At the same time I was elated. And, you know, I was excited. I still see some things that need, you know, our attention. Like in California, there was a bill to protect animals that we're going to consume. They had to be housed humanely and treated more humanely before we consumed them. And it occurred to me that if young black men were animal of some type, they would be an endangered species and they would be protected more so than they are now.
Last year in Philadelphia, 345 black men murdered. Newark, 101, in Chicago, 418. Why do we seem to care more about animals than we do human beings? I've never understood that.
REP. JESSE L. JACKSON, JR. (D), ILLINOIS: You know, D.L., I don't have the answer to that. But let me tell you what I do believe in an Obama presidency. I believe many of our young men, because we have a symbol in the White House of dignity and honor, are going to be challenged psychologically in some profound ways. I mean, I think we're now going to enter a period, I hope, of respect, where we talk to each other, where we try to work out our problems; where some of our young men can pull up their pants and assume greater responsibility for the babies that they make.
When we have a beautiful symbol like Michelle Obama in the White House, I hope that young women in our community will look up to Michelle Obama and say, wow, here's a family that treated each other with respect, that are treating the American people with respect. I think we're entering into a new era of caring. And I think Barack Obama and Michelle Obama are going to bring about that kind of civility and that kind of relationship in our community, because every time we step out of our homes now, we represent the president of the United States of America. You are an ambassador for this nation.
HUGHLEY: You are absolutely right. You're absolutely right. So what do you think the future of civil rights is in this country?
JACKSON: Well, there is a transition in our community from the profound and prophetic leadership of the church to the elected and accountable. Barack Obama has engaged the American people in a way that forces the American people now to pay attention to every word that is uttered out of the mouth of every politician. We are engaged now. And it will be President Obama's responsibility and obligation in order to move his agenda through the Congress for all Americans to keep voters engaged. That's really what this process has now become.
HUGHLEY: Man, you are an amazing young cat, man. Give it up to Jesse Jackson, Jr. Thanks, man.
(APPLAUSE)
JACKSON: Thanks, D.L.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUGHLEY: After the inauguration, I was going by ESPN's Stephen A. Smith and political critic Michaela Angela Davis to talk more about the impact President Obama is already having.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HUGHLEY: I was on a train and I was coming -- we were coming from the inauguration, these two kids were acting up on the train.
STEVEN A. SMITH, ESPN: You got a train. Congratulations on that. I had to drive. But go ahead.
HUGHLEY: It was rough.
But a lady ran up to her kids and said, you stop that, you ain't never going to see Sasha and Malia acting like that. And those kids straightened right up. And to me, we know that images are very powerful. Like after "The Cosby Show", black enrollment, black college enrollment went up, black homeowner went up. They saw something, they aspired to it. I think this is it, on a whole another level, on a global level, which is that same thing. When you have an example, hey, don't act like this. This is how you are supposed to act.
MICHAELA ANGELA DAVIS, SPECIAL CORRESPONDENT, TVONE: The Obamas are real. They're not characters, you know.
HUGHLEY: Exactly. Right.
DAVIS: And I remember seeing, I can't remember what the event was, but one of the little girls was just shifting in her seat a little bit. And Michelle shot her a look. And she -- y'all know that look. You know when you're in church and the fact that that look now becomes something all American families can be like, you know.
HUGHLEY: Yes, but you have to be able to pull that off.
DAVIS: And Michelle can do that.
HUGHLEY: Yes, I'm saying.
DAVIS: But it was one look and that girl's curls fell into place and she, you know, sat down.
HUGHLEY: Do you know what was funny, do you remember when they were walking in together, it was right after the election, Obama was with the young one, Sasha is the name?
DAVIS: Yes.
HUGHLEY: And the mother was with Malia. And I don't care -- that little girl knew that was daddy's little girl, I could see look at her, she know -- she didn't give a damn who was around, I'm walking with my daddy, I don't care what you think.
DAVIS: To see a young black girl be somebody's princess again, you know, not somebody's B or H or be, you know, having bottles popped on them. He's holding her hand with dignity, too. And so there's a whole lot of little girls, we're not going to have to have that conversation with them. That's saying it for us.
HUGHLEY: What is the message that you will give your children? That will resonate. I was there and this is the lesson you took away?
SMITH: It is history. You can be what you want to be if work hard enough, if you strive for it, and more importantly, you don't look for shortcuts. This was an educated man. This is a family man. This is a man with discipline and morals and values. Those things take precedent over everything else.
People can try and break you. They can knock you down, but they can't stop you, whether you go over them, or around them, or right through them. If you are determined, focused and your mind is in the right place and your heart is in the right place, you can make it happen.
HUGHLEY: What about you?
(APPLAUSE)
DAVIS: I have a daughter. I have a daughter who just entered college, and you know, she's fly and she's smart. And I think -- I'm a big Michelle fan, like Michelle --
HUGHLEY: No?
DAVIS: Yes. Because, you know -- and here's why. Michelle has created herself. She hasn't let the fashion industry tell her what to do. She hasn't let white male patriarchy tell her what to do. She is feminine, beautiful, smart, sharp, fly, in charge, healthy, you know? And is a mother.
(CROSSTALK)
HUGHLEY: And I hear she can make a sandwich, too. That's important, you got to do all that, too.
DAVIS: But we can stop doing that as women, and that also Barack gives her the space be that. That's what made me vote. I said that any man that can marry that woman can rule the free world. Because he's -- you know, he's comfortable with himself. She's not arm candy.
SMITH: But he's comfortable, where actually she is arm candy, too. She's a lot more.
DAVIS: She's not arm candy.
SMITH: No, I'm saying she's a beautiful black woman, is what I'm trying to say.
DAVIS: And he's hot.
SMITH: Exactly.
DAVIS: So, it's good.
(LAUGHTER)
SMITH: What I'm saying, though ,is that the deal is --
HUGHLEY: I felt a little friction right there.
SMITH: Not at all.
(CROSSTALK) DAVIS: He is. He is a fine president.
HUGHLEY: This is almost turning into Jerry Springer.
SMITH: I'm just saying --
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUGHLEY: Next up, politicians say the darnedest things on this show. Next we're going to remind you.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HUGHLEY: Well, one of my favorite figures over the last several months has been former Illinois Governor Rod Blagojevich. I just loved his fighting spirit. So when I spoke to him in January, I asked him why was he in New York when his impeachment trial was going on back in Illinois.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HUGHLEY: Now, of course your impeachment proceedings are happening, and you were in New York, and you've done a lot of the shows. Wouldn't you have been better served going to, you know, the impeachment hearings and actually kind of reminding them of things you've done, and how well you served Illinois?
ROD BLAGOJEVICH, FORMER ILLINOIS GOVERNOR: If they were real ordinary people who were going to give me a fair hearing, I'd love to stand on my record and talk about the things we got done for people. Every senior citizen takes the bus and public transportation, subways, trains for free. No state does that. I did that around the legislature. That's among one of the things they like to say I did that I shouldn't have done. They're trying to impeach me for some of these things.
But here's the problem with the process. It's just a flat-out -- flat-out violation of basic constitutional rights.
HUGHLEY: When did Illinois turn into Guantanamo Bay? When did that happen?
BLAGOJEVICH: About a week or two ago when they had these rules put out. And we've tried real hard to get them to change them. We've asked just give me a chance to bring my witnesses in and let's have every one of those taped conversations on the telephone, every one, let's have them all heard right down there.
HUGHLEY: But some of them it's difficult to explain the context. Like some of them, I listened to them, and I've got to be absolutely honest with you, I really dig your fighting spirit and this is probably no great endorsement, but none of them sounded criminal to me.
BLAGOJEVICH: Right. HUGHLEY: They sounded political. They are the process that is involved in politics where it gets a little dirty. A lot of times, people want a steak, nobody wants to see the cow get butchered and they got to see how it got butchered and I think there's perhaps a little bit of that.
BLAGOJEVICH: Well, if you want a good steak, then the cow has to get butchered because otherwise, you couldn't get the steak. Unfortunately, that's how the political process works, and unfortunately, that's how the government works through a legislative process. But we're not telling people stuff that most people don't probably understand anyway.
The question is, are you trying to do these things to help people or are you trying to have personal benefit and personal gain and when...
HUGHLEY: But some of the tapes do sound like, there is a benefit of -- a definite advantage in it for you personally. It does sound that way.
BLAGOJEVICH: Well, when you take it one little conversation out of context, you know, you don't hear the full story, anybody can make anything look a certain way. That's why I want the whole story told, and I'd like every one of those tapes get considered. You throw out ideas. Sometimes they're good and sometimes they're stupid, and sometimes you can't do them. And that's why you have lawyers and other people to tell them, you can't do that. And where has it happened in America that you can't have conversations like that with your staff and throw out ideas and test things that you ultimately realize you don't do and can't do and...
HUGHLEY: Were you aware that you were being taped? Were you aware at all?
BLAGOJEVICH: No.
HUGHLEY: So in retrospect, if you were aware that you were being taped, would you have had some of those same conversations?
BLAGOJEVICH: Obviously, based on what I know now, if I was aware I was going to be taped, right after the election, I'd have gone away for a couple of months.
LEMON: Right. What are you going to be if you're not a politician and not fighting for people's rights? What do you do?
BLAGOJEVICH: Mm-hmm. Well, I'm not going to hold elected office, if this happens, which I think is going to happen soon. But does it mean I'm going to give up fighting for the causes and the stuff that I care about? I'm not going to give up on my future if I'm no longer governor. You know, life's a marathon.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Well, my next interview was with newly-elected RNC chairman Michael Steele. I have to say, this guy surprised me. I didn't think he was such a loose cannon, but I am happy he was.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HUGHLEY: We are back with RNC Chairman Michael Steele. And joining us, this man actually needs no introduction. He is a hip-hop legend. Please give it up for Chuck D.
Thank you for joining us this evening.
CHUCK D, HIP HOP ARTIST: Thank you.
HUGHLEY: You were in the back. You listened. You heard me talking to Michael Steele.
CHUCK D: It was so exciting, just eloquence across TV.
HUGHLEY: Yes. And he's an eloquent man. I don't know that I necessarily agree with him, but I can honestly say I've never heard -- never heard the Republican agenda articulated so accessibly.
CHUCK D: About time.
HUGHLEY: Yes, right.
You know what we do, we talk like we're talking now. You have your view. I have mine. We don't need incendiary rhetoric.
MICHAEL STEELE, RNC CHAIRMAN: Exactly.
HUGHLEY: Like Rush Limbaugh, who is the de facto leader of the Republican Party.
STEELE: No, he's not.
HUGHLEY: Well, I'll tell you what...
STEELE: I'm the de facto leader of the Republican Party.
HUGHLEY: Then you know what? Then I can appreciate that. But no one will actually cry down some of the things he says. Like when he comes out and says that he wants the president to fail. I understand he wants liberalism to fail. Like, I get that it's not about the man. But it is still about the idea that he would rather have an idea fail so his idea can move to the forefront. And that would succeed. And that to me is destructive.
(CROSSTALK)
STEELE: D.L., how is that any different than what was said about George Bush during his presidency?
(CROSSTALK)
HUGHLEY: You're absolutely -- let me say something. You're absolutely right. STEELE: So let's put it into context here. Let's put it into context here. Rush Limbaugh is an entertainer. Rush Limbaugh, his whole thing is entertainment. Yes, it's incendiary. Yes, it's ugly.
CHUCK D: You do get a sense that he would say anything.
HUGHLEY: He influences the party. And I tell you what, you're the first Republican I have talked to, and I have talked to a lot, and said he's not the leader of his party. They would never -- I have never heard anybody say that on any show. We get past a lot of things when three men who are all from different kinds of background, who all have different ideological views, look and go, you know what, I can respect that in you or I can not respect.
You know what, I don't have any preconceived notions. I thought you were a bright guy then, I think even brighter than I did before. But I just think that your -- the brand you're selling ain't for us. It's just not. I ain't been sold, baby! I'm just saying.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUGHLEY: Well, it seems like my interview with Michael Steele caused a little stir.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Rush versus the RNC, conservative lightning rod Rush Limbaugh trades heated words with the new leader of the Republican National Committee.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST: The battle under way right now between the new chairman of the Republican Party Michael Steele and the radio talk show host Rush Limbaugh.
CHRIS MATTHEWS, MSNBC HOST: Republican National Party Chairman Michael Steele says in an interview with a guy named Hugly (ph)...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Incendiary and ugly.
ARIANNA HUFFINGTON, HUFFINGTONPOST.COM: Did I say ugly message?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Not surprisingly, Limbaugh isn't happy.
RUSH LIMBAUGH, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: I hope the RNC chairman will realize he's not a talking head pundit.
LARRY KING, CNN HOST: Rush is a personality. He is enjoying this.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Battle lines are drawn.
ROLAND MARTIN, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Michael Steele punked out.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How sad is the Republican Party right now?
DAVID GERGEN, FORMER PRESIDENTIAL ADVISER: That was one of the dumbest things I have seen a party chairman do in a while.
CHUCK TODD, NBC NEWS ANALYST: They're afraid to offend him.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's a fight that no doubt the White House and the president enjoy.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUGHLEY: Well, next, we examine President Obama's bowling phobia.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HUGHLEY: Well, so far the biggest controversy of Obama's presidency has been the joke he made about the special Olympics, when he was talking about his own bowling skills. Well, weeks ago we, predicted this controversy when we did this hard-hitting piece on Obama's plan to get rid of the White House bowling alley.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
RICHARD NIXON, 37TH PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: In all of the decisions I have made in my public life, I have always tried to do what was best for the nation.
HUGHLEY (voice-over): In 1969, President Richard Nixon did the unthinkable. He built a bowling alley in the White House. Shockwaves from this controversial move are still being felt today.
But Barack Obama wants to bring change to America and the White House.
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I'm going to tear up the bowling alley in the White House. We are putting up a basketball court.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
HUGHLEY: Will he follow through on his bold campaign promise? I went to Venice Beach to talk to some serious basketball players.
"SUPERFLY": And they call me "Superfly."
"CRUCIAL": What's up south, this is "Crucial."
"THE INFAMOUS EASTWOOD": They call me "The Infamous Eastwood."
HUGHLEY: And I went to a bowling alley to talk to some serious bowlers.
"ALAN ALDERMAN": They call me "Alan Alderman."
(LAUGHTER)
"MANNY ESPINA": They call me "Manny Espina."
"ANNETTE AKA 'MOM'": They call me "Annette," but most of the people call me "Mom" because I bake chocolate chip cookies for them.
HUGHLEY: Where do these people stand on this hot button issue?
(on camera): One of the things he wants to do is to take the bowling alleys out of the White House and he's going to put basketball courts in there. What do you think about that?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Basketball courts?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: As both a bowling businessman and a fan, I am against it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Obama, don't take the bowling alley out, please. Leave it in.
"ALDERMAN": Keep the bowling alley the way it is.
HUGHLEY: One of the things he discusses tearing out the bowling alley in the White House and putting in basketball courts.
"MOM": I can understand that. Have you seen him bowl?
(LAUGHTER)
HUGHLEY: He's going to rip out the bowling alley and put basketball courts in the White House. What do you think of that?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think it's -- give him so due. I mean, not too many out there bowling.
HUGHLEY: Yes, yes, but then he's going to have brothers like you all showing up, "I got next."
(LAUGHTER)
HUGHLEY: I'm here with one of my favorite NBA players, Baron Davis. How are you doing, Baron?
BARON DAVIS, NBA PLAYER: I'm good.
HUGHLEY: We are here at the Clippers training facility. So do you think that Obama should take out the bowling alley?
DAVIS: I have no problems with that. Sign me up.
HUGHLEY: You think he should do it?
DAVIS: I'll help do the construction.
(LAUGHTER)
HUGHLEY: What makes bowling exciting?
"ESPINA": I like to see the pins explode when you throw the ball.
HUGHLEY: The pins explode? That's it?
"ESPINA": I get a kick out of that.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: With basketball, that's what brings people together, with bowling, you know, you can do that by yourself, midnight, stuff like that.
HUGHLEY: Gatorade is the official drink of the NBA. What is the official drink of bowling?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Apple martini.
(LAUGHTER)
HUGHLEY: Ain't no bowler going to drink apple martini, that's you.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Apple martini.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It would be either Miller or Bud.
HUGHLEY: All right. So beer.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's (INAUDIBLE).
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The official drink for bowlers here is beer.
HUGHLEY: Beer, of course, that's everywhere.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: But for me, it's an apple martini.
(LAUGHTER)
HUGHLEY: You have been watching too much "Sex and the City," that's what you've been doing.
"EASTWOOD": See, they don't got to put in as much work as a basketball player.
HUGHLEY: So you think basketball players are better athletes than bowlers?
"CRUCIAL": But, of course, but, of course, we're active. We're way more active.
HUGHLEY: What do bowlers do better than basketball players?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What do bowlers do better than basketball players?
(LAUGHTER)
"ESPINA": They have it easier because the ball is lighter than ours.
HUGHLEY: Right, because that ball -- what is it?
"ESPINA": Our ball is 16 pounds.
HUGHLEY: Oh yes, that ball is a 16 ounces.
"EASTWOOD": I would have to disagree because if you keep shooting that same ball a hundred times to get as good as I am, and these guys right here, then it will get heavy itself.
"CRUCIAL": A hell of a lot heavier than their balls.
(LAUGHTER)
"SUPERFLY": I don't really like to get in other people's balls.
(LAUGHTER)
HUGHLEY: Who is the Baron Davis of the Professional Bowels Association?
DAVIS: I don't know anybody.
HUGHLEY: Anybody like you or you don't know?
DAVIS: I don't any professional bowlers.
(LAUGHTER)
HUGHLEY (voice-over): If Obama gets rid of the lanes, bowling, a noble sport that has been around since the beginning of time, may be in trouble.
What can bowling do to save itself?
(on camera): The NBA, their slogan is "where amazing happens." What will a great slogan be for bowling?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: "Where drunk and over 60 happens."
(LAUGHTER)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: "Bowl when you're old."
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: "Three strikes, you're out."
HUGHLEY: That's California.
(LAUGHTER)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: "Apple martini!"
(LAUGHTER)
"MOM": "Grab your balls and go bowling."
(LAUGHTER) "MOM": What's wrong with that?
HUGHLEY: Nothing is wrong.
(LAUGHTER)
HUGHLEY: Thank you very much.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HUGHLEY: Next, I want to get the last word in. I mean, really the last word. And then this couch is going on eBay.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HUGHLEY: Well, it is time for one more thing. First of all, I want to thank you. This is our final show for the run. We're going to go on and do other things here, you know. But this is the final show for this one. I want to thank you all if you watched this show, and I want to thank you even if you didn't, because it made us better. I want to thank my staff. They were exceptional. And I want to say this, out of all of the networks I have ever worked for -- and there have been many -- this is the one I'm with right now.
(LAUGHTER)
Thank you all. I'll see you on the other side.
(APPLAUSE)
