Return to Transcripts main page
Erin Burnett Outfront
Super Committee Deadline; Keystone XL Pipeline; GOP Candidates
Aired November 10, 2011 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ERIN BURNETT, HOST: Thanks, John. We're on the "Front Line" at Penn State. Joe Paterno out as head coach, will more victims come forward?
And a new poll shows Mitt Romney tied with Barack Obama in those key swing states. But it is Herman Cain who is the one who keeps cashing in.
And the "Bottom Line" of the super committee, they're in charge of axing at least $1.2 trillion from America's deficit, but will they stop bickering and get the job done? Our jobs could all depend on it.
Let's go OUTFRONT.
I'm Erin Burnett. OUTFRONT tonight countdown to the super committee, the group of 12 charged with axing $1.2 trillion from America's deficit. And tonight it looks like they are still very far apart. Last night, we brought you frankly what was a breakthrough. The architect of the Republican plan on the committee told us he would support an increase in tax revenues on some of the wealthiest Americans. But today the top Democrat said Toomey's plan didn't go far enough.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. PATTY MURRAY (D), WASHINGTON: We came to the table to begin with and every day have said that for us it's extremely important. This -- whatever we end up with at the end of the day is balanced and fair and has revenue -- real revenue on the table.
REP. JEB HENSARLING (R), TEXAS: We still haven't seen from the Democrats is a plan that deals with our structural debt crisis that actually solves the problem.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: This bickering is pretty sad because $1.2 trillion frankly is not very much and it means this issue is going to come back really soon again. So can the super committee step it up? They have 13 days to be super heroes and (INAUDIBLE). Tonight, we go to the front lines with our "Strike Team" and that's the group of 20 entrepreneurs, CEOs and investors that I picked to advise us on the economy.
They were the first to call on this show that we would not fall back into recession when conventional wisdom across the country this fall was that a double-dip was in full swing. Well the "Strike Team" was right and so we're going to go to them on the super committee tonight.
Dave Roberts is the team. He's the CEO of the Carlisle Companies. It is a manufacturing company with more than 7,000 employees in 30 states across the country. Dave, good to see you again and I wanted just to ask you, as a CEO who is considering hiring, which I know you are --
DAVE ROBERTS, CEO, CARLISLE COMPANIES: Right.
BURNETT: -- whether the super committee is important to you.
ROBERTS: Well I think long term it is, Erin. I think initially if they don't reach agreement in 13 days, it's not going to have a dramatic impact on what happens on our business. But I think long term it will. I think what we'll see immediately is a downgrade of the -- of the U.S. credit rating. And you downgrade the credit rating, obviously, a number things start to happen.
For instance, borrowing gets more expensive. And I think even more importantly is the value of the dollar drops, making it more difficult for us to buy commodities at a price that's reasonable. So we're going to end up raising prices because our raw materials are going to go up which will frankly you know just cause people or consumers to be spending more money for what they're buying.
BURNETT: Which is important. This downgrade issue is an important one. So when you think about hiring, what is holding you back right now? When you look at what we just heard, which is two members of the super committee, well, sort of complaining about the other ones.
ROBERTS: Well, I think folks are still very cautious out there. I mean, other CEOs that I talked to or I think everyone is still concerned about the future. We're looking at very short -- or small growth, probably two to three percent next year, GDP growth. And frankly, that's not enough for us to continue to go out and hiring people. I think there's one element that the, you know the media's forgotten in this, is that, you know our sales -- I look at our sales this year, it's up 25 percent.
BURNETT: Yes.
ROBERTS: Half of that is acquired growth. The other half is organic growth. But half of that is actually price increase. So we need volume in manufacturing to go out and hire people. Our volumes are actually lower today than they were in 2008 and until volumes come back and the consumer continues to buy at rates greater than they are today, we're not going to have a need for people.
Now technical people are different. We've always needed engineers and we will continue to look for engineers. But in our factories, until we get volume back, we're not going to have to hire people. BURNETT: All right. Well Dave, thank you very much, and good to see you again.
ROBERTS: You're welcome. Thanks, Erin.
BURNETT: All right, let's bring in Peter Boockvar for now, managing director at Miller Tabak and John Avlon, contributor and senior columnist for "Newsweek" and "Daily Beast". All right, thanks to both of you and we appreciate it.
Peter, do you think the super committee understands what really is at stake? When someone like Dave Roberts lays out, we could get a downgrade. Borrowing costs could go up. I would have to raise prices even more for regular Americans trying to buy what I make?
PETER BOOCKVAR, MANAGING DIRECTOR, MILLER TABAK & CO.: Well I think the S&P downgrade of the U.S. credit rating from AAA was a slap in the face and bluntly it was an utter embarrassment for this country. So I hope from a market perspective and from a D.C. perspective that it did create a sense of urgency that they know that everyone is now watching them. Time is up. And it's time to bring results to satisfy the rating agencies, to satisfy the bond market, and to satisfy corporate CEOs that have been paralyzed by what's going on in Washington.
BURNETT: Do they get it?
JOHN AVLON, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: They better. If they don't get it now, they're not going to get it. Look, the clock's ticking, 13 days, as you said. They have the (INAUDIBLE) downgrade breathing down their back and they've got another number too, nine percent, the historic low approval rating for Congress, so they better get it right now. The thing is they just can't seem to get it together. The big question is are they going to go just across the mark for 1.2 or are they going to go big to four?
BURNETT: And I want to follow up with you on that, but first, Peter, this whole issue of 1.2. I mean can you put this in context? Because you know in this country we throw around 100 billion, 200 billion, $1 trillion as if it's nothing. But 1.2 trillion really isn't very much, is it?
BOOCKVAR: It's nonsense. We have a $15 trillion nominal GDP economy. It's less than one percent per -- if you take the 1.2 over 10 years, 120 billion versus a $15 trillion economy. Plus the unfunded liabilities of this country is 50 to $100 trillion worth of --
BURNETT: All the debt that we have, the Social Security --
BOOCKVAR: Exactly, so 1.2 trillion is a fly and it's a waste of time. The markets know that. So while it's very important to Washington and maybe it will satisfy the rating agencies, the markets know that unless you face Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security this is just a waste of time --
BURNETT: You go big -- you go big, five trillion-plus.
BOOCKVAR: The market's going to force Washington to go big, at some point over the next couple of years.
AVLON: Here's the good news.
BURNETT: And being forced is going to be bad.
AVLON: Force will be bad and you know and an automatic cut will be terrible as well, politically and practically. Here's the good news. You've got a gang of 140 now, 140 members of Congress --
BURNETT: Yes.
AVLON: -- encouraging the super committee to go big, to go for that $4 trillion number. And the fact that Pat Toomey last night was willing to accept revenue increases from the former president of the club for growth, that's a big deal.
BURNETT: Yes.
AVLON: That's a step in the right direction.
BURNETT: I thought that was a huge deal and he said -- and he point blank (INAUDIBLE) when you say new revenue does that mean the wealthiest Americans will end up paying more in the new world than in the old world, yes, that's what he said.
AVLON: That's it. I mean even though he's proposing a rate cut for the top rate he's still proposing new revenue. That is a concession. That is a step in the right direction towards a deal.
BURNETT: Right.
AVLON: And that's the kind of spirit you're going to need with real purpose behind it.
BURNETT: Downgrade, how quickly would it come, do you think?
BOOCKVAR: Oh it can come within days if there's no deal after the cutoff in November.
BURNETT: All right. Well thanks very much to both of you.
BOOCKVAR: Thank you.
BURNETT: Hopefully they're watching, hopefully they will step up and be super heroes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
BURNETT: OK. Still OUTFRONT, the State Department announces they're looking for plans for an oil pipeline running from Alberta, Canada, to Texas. They said hey, no deal. Well we're going to talk about what really went down there. This is important. And Mitt Romney stacks up well with President Obama, but Herman Cain is the one raising all the cold, hard cash. That is the fact still. And 24-year-old Wilson Ramos (ph), a rising star with the Washington Nationals was kidnapped last night in Venezuela. Who took him and why?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BURNETT: The number tonight, 826,000. That is how many country music albums has been sold in New York City year-to-date, making it the number one place in the nation for country music sales according to Nielsen. Now the data is a little bit misleading. Country music is popular here but maybe not as much as you'd think because New York City does not have a country music station.
Actually that bothers me all the time. It has more to do with the city's large population. The truth is it only accounted for five percent of the city's music sale. (INAUDIBLE) literally go south I can say. You know you got to go 50, 60 miles before you get a really great country station. It's a problem.
OK, major decision today at the crossroads of energy and the environment. The State Department announced it's going to study the route of a planned pipeline running from Canada to the Texas Gulf Coast. It's called the Keystone XL oil pipeline and it would have crossed a critical aquifer over Nebraska. Environmental groups did not like that. They wanted to block the project.
The people that liked it though say it will cost jobs. And today John Boehner said it would cost 20,000 jobs to not have it be built as planned, so politics are paramount. CNN's foreign affairs correspondent Jill Dougherty joins us at the White House with more. And this is a big foreign affairs issue because you're talking about perhaps the biggest oil reserves in the world in Canada going through the U.S. and down to the Gulf Coast.
JILL DOUGHERTY, CNN FOREIGN AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Yes and you know the argument for it really would be, look if we can get oil from Canada or from other parts, let's say Mexico, this could make a big difference. You could basically kiss the Middle East good-bye. And so -- and the jobs argument certainly is big too. But environmental groups are really furious about this.
And now the president puts off this decision, which technically will be made by Secretary of State Hillary Clinton because it's an international borders issue. It puts it off until 2013. And if that rings a bell, that is because it's after the election. So there's quite a political context, although the White House would say that this is not a political decision.
BURNETT: Interesting, and what's your take on it? I mean it is -- it does seem rather interesting, the time line where they're going to make the decision.
DOUGHERTY: It does, but I think it's really a very, very difficult decision to make because the people who really hate the pipeline and really want to kill it are the president's liberal supporters, people who support the environment groups. They had -- it's a very big -- I would say a very successful media operation. In fact last week, you had thousands of people circling the White House against it.
But you also have big oil and you also have people who support jobs, who are saying, look, you could get 20,000 jobs online almost immediately or at least the beginning of next year and that is crucial too. So it's not a decision that would be easy for the president to make either way.
BURNETT: Kick the can down the road I guess. All right, Jill Dougherty, thank you very much. Appreciate it.
And now let's talk about the politics of that and well some other pretty amazing political things that are happening today like Herman Cain's money machine. Paul Begala joins us, political contributor here, senior political analyst David Gergen and contributor David Frum. OK, good to have all of you with us. We appreciate it. David Gergen, it's interesting how a big decision like this gets put off until after the election.
DAVID GERGEN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: I -- there may be reasons of substance that they need further study --
BURNETT: Yes.
GERGEN: -- but nobody in Washington believes that. It looks purely political. The president had to choose between the environmental bloc that really didn't want this, he wants their votes, and labor unions, you know, who want the jobs. And he got caught in the middle. But let me just add one other element to it.
(CROSSTALK)
GERGEN: Because it's more than just American politics. I've been up there in Canada a couple of times in the last six or eight weeks. This is really important to U.S./Canadian relations. And what they're telling me there, business community saying we thought you were going to do this. We've started investing. We've made a lot of reliance on you doing this.
And by you putting it off, let's just make clear to you as Americans, we've always seen you as our partner for oil and gas. We intended to sell you our oil and gas. If you're going to screw around with this, we've got an alternative; we're going to sell it to China.
BURNETT: Yes and they sure can do that, right? Ship right into Vancouver and take it away.
GERGEN: Exactly.
BURNETT: Paul Begala, what's your take on this? And then I want to bring you in, David Frum, on Herman Cain.
PAUL BEGALA, CNN POLITICAL CONTRIBUTOR: Well first kicking the can has a long and distinguished tradition for American presidents --
BURNETT: Yes, for both parties.
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: Abraham Lincoln, a Republican, delayed announcing the Emancipation Proclamation until his Union generals gave him some battlefield victories, so this is hardly -- it's a big deal. David is right. But it's hardly Emancipation Proclamation and the politics of this very, very difficult. You know the (INAUDIBLE) which goes from west Texas to Wyoming, it's 174,000 square miles. This goes right through the heart of it.
The Republican governor of Nebraska which -- under which sits a huge part of that aquifer, he opposes this. So it's not just a Democrat, Republican thing. It's a very difficult environmental, economic, international relations and political decision. So I'd rather they get it right than get it right away.
BURNETT: And obviously some of the others, western governors, Republicans, do tend to be much more pro environment than you might expect on party lines.
BEGALA: It's about water.
BURNETT: (CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: It's about cool, clear water like that old country song. I'm glad to hear you're a country fan.
BURNETT: I do. I do, but I just have to say it's lucky you couldn't see David Gergen's face when you made the comment about the Emancipation Proclamation.
GERGEN: He took it back. He said actually it's not quite the Emancipation Proclamation, to Paul's credit.
BURNETT: Then he (INAUDIBLE). He was a little bit more relieved. All right, David Frum, I want to get you in on this issue of Herman Cain. So the whole situation continues and yet $9 million in the past 10 days. It is phenomenal in terms of fund-raising. Will it last in terms of polls?
DAVID FRUM, FORMER SPEECHWRITER FOR GEORGE W. BUSH: Well, Herman Cain is not going to be the Republican nominee and he's not even going to be the Republican front runner for very much longer. But he is a real phenomenon and he -- Rick Perry in a way cemented that last night by taking away the last other plausible place that Tea Party supporters could go.
So if you want not Mitt, you're sort of stuck with Herman Cain for as long as that balloon takes to deflate. And he's going to raise a lot of money off the perception of victim-hood which is very unfortunate because he's now running for the chief -- the victim in chief spot that was recently vacated by Sarah Palin. BURNETT: David Gergen, David Gergen, what is your take on this? And also, what's your take on Rick Perry who, OK, he stumbled last night. It was stomach churning and honestly as I said last night I felt badly for him. It was just a human moment. But then he went and did the morning shows this morning, tried to make a joke of it, tried to make light. Not enough.
GERGEN: My feeling is that Mitt Romney is one of the luckiest guys around to run against this field. I mean he's had two guys who basically sort of almost imploded in front of him. And we'll have to wait and see. I think David Frum is right that Herman Cain is going to stay in. He is a motivational speaker and he does have a lot of support. But what was interesting, these Quinnipiac polls that came out were the three battleground states --
BURNETT: Yes.
GERGEN: -- Romney runs much better than Cain in Pennsylvania and in Ohio against the president.
BURNETT: Yes.
GERGEN: They are neck and neck against the president. But against Herman Cain, Obama's ahead by 10 points in each state. Republicans are going to pay attention to things like that.
BURNETT: Paul, what's going to happen here though because let's just assume there is a scenario sort of like the way things are now, economy, still pretty terrible. But you get job growth every month. That's tepid. But the unemployment rate stays where it is or just ticks down a little bit. In that scenario, does Barack Obama end up winning? I mean Mitt Romney right now even with the economy where it is has it only within the margin of error and in some states right above the president and some right below.
BEGALA: Right, that's the million dollar question. Every time I look at the economy, I think Obama can't win. Every time I look at the Republicans, I think he can't lose and so one of those two is going to have to give. And it's anybody's guess, Erin. And no one has ever even tried to run for re-election with unemployment this high since FDR and he was a special case and it was 70 years ago. So it's really an extraordinary time for this president. And as lucky as Mitt Romney is -- and I think David Gergen is right -- I think Barack Obama's feeling pretty fortunate right now too to have a comparatively weak field in the Republican Party.
BURNETT: What would you do right now if the election was today, what's your bet?
GERGEN: My bet right now is that Obama would win the squeaker. I think it's sort of a pretty even field, but I also think as time goes on the powers of the incumbency, as Paul and David both know from their experiences, are very, very important in a race like this. And beyond that the Electoral College, it works in the president's favor.
We'll have to wait and see. Does that mean he can lose it? Yes, he can absolutely lose it. And Mitt Romney is going to be a better campaigner as time goes on. He showed a little humor last night. We haven't seen much of that before.
BURNETT: He had some humor?
GERGEN: Yes.
(CROSSTALK)
GERGEN: If he unbends some and he starts to connect emotionally, he's going to be a much stronger candidate.
BURNETT: You know I don't know if we have video of him and we probably don't so I don't mean to (INAUDIBLE) in the back, but David Frum, you know what else Mitt Romney had last night, he had kind of messy hair. Did you notice that? You know like it wasn't the perfect Ken doll look. He didn't look perfect, which I thought was maybe on purpose, it was a good thing.
FRUM: He looked like a working class hero from a 1930's movie, one of those guys, with a fantastic jaw line and the kind of disheveled hair. I think --
BURNETT: The trench coat.
FRUM: My guess is that was focus grouped.
BURNETT: With the spiky hair. I mean it did look like it had some hair gel in it that actually got it where it was. All right, well gentlemen thanks to all three of you. Really appreciate your taking the time as always. We'll keep watching your hair, Mitt.
OK, still OUTFRONT the latest on the Penn State sex scandal, Joe Paterno out as head coach. The president now out as well. We talk about what it means for the football program at the school, the state, and we're going to talk to a man who played professional hockey, was abused by his coach more than 300 times. He's going to come OUTFRONT tonight and talk about why he finally came out, why it took him so long.
And its ninth outer circle a day after the earthquake in Turkey, 25 people have been rescued and there is something funny going on at the National Toy Hall of Fame -- seriously.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BURNETT: So, we cover a lot of serious stories on this show but this one is more seriously. The National Toy Hall of Fame is located in Rochester, New York. So every year they take nominations from the public and then they induct classic toys from a list of 12 finalists. So this year, here's what happened. At the ceremony today, they inducted three toys into the Hall of Fame -- Hot Wheels, totally appropriate, the Doll House, OK, and the blanket. OK, the blanket is an odd choice, right, because it's not a toy.
Well at least I don't know in the traditional sense of the world. So we looked to see which toys it beat out to be enshrined on this special list. Dungeons and Dragons got passed over, Jenga (ph) Puppets, and that's when we noticed something disturbing. The blanket was not even on the list of the finalists. It was a total cheater. Seriously, Toy Hall of Fame, you thought you could just sneak a rogue toy not even on the list and then it's a winner?
Maybe it's because it's a blanket but we smell cover-up. And it turns out this isn't the first time the Toy Hall of Fame has tried this. They actually did the same thing with the cardboard box in 2005 and the stick in 2008. OK, so look our show is not anti-blanket and not -- and certainly not anti-toy. But we're not saying the blanket shouldn't be included in the Hall of Fame. Actually, yes, I am, it shouldn't be. We just think it should be voted fairly -- seriously.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Still OUTFRONT the "OutFront 5" -- the next to fall?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He walks into the locker room and he sees a man in his 50's raping a little boy and he does nothing about it.
BURNETT: Turkey's earthquake.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Rescue workers have been working on getting people out of the rubble.
BURNETT: A rebel with a cause.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We've found that's an incredibly powerful way for people to engage each other.
BURNETT: All this OUTFRONT in our second half.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BURNETT: We start the second half of our show with stories we care about. We focus on our own reporting, do the work and find the "OutFront 5".
Up first, countdown to super committee. Earlier tonight Peter Boockvar, managing director of Miller Tabak said he hopes everyone in Washington has gotten the message. The super committee's work is crucial to restoring confidence in the economy. Here he is.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PETER BOOCKVAR, MANAGING DIRECTOR, MILLER TABAK & CO: The S&P downgrade of the U.S. credit rating from AAA was a slap in the face and bluntly it was an utter embarrassment for this country. So, I hope from a market perspective and from a D.C. perspective that it did create a sense of urgency, that they know that everyone is now watching them, time is up, and it's time to bring results to satisfy the rating agencies, to satisfy the bond market, and to satisfy corporate CEOs that have been paralyzed by what's going on in Washington.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Well, number two, the U.S. federal budget deficit narrowed to $90.5 billion in October. Though that number was better than expected, the government had to pay a few bills in late September because October 1st fell on a Saturday. So, there were technical reasons, but this is important. Tax receipts from individuals and companies were higher than expected in the month. And the budget deficit, it has shrunk a little bit. It is still huge.
Number three: OUTFRONT has learned Secretary of Defense Leon Panetta promised an independent review of mishandled war dead at Dover Air Force Base. It comes after we told you Monday the human remains were lost at the base. "The Washington Post" has reported that some remains were dumped into landfills without their families knowing. In addition to the external review, Panetta asked Air Force Secretary Mike Donley to also investigate.
Number four: the number of people filing for unemployment benefits fell last week by 10,000 to 390,000. That's a level we haven't seen since April. And it's a big deal. And we wanted to explain it to you.
The four-week moving average, because this number comes out every week, came in at 400,000. That's real important, because anything below 400,000 means hiring, above means probably not hiring. So, we're teetering right on the edge of real job growth.
Well, it has been 97 days since the U.S. lost its top credit rating. What are we doing to get it back?
Well, by the way, we want to welcome two new members to the AA- plus club. Isle of Man and Guernsey both lost their AAA ratings today. Well, what's interesting about that, they're both tax havens -- would be the fairway to describe those places. Companies like to stash their cash there.
OK. Governor Tom Corbett stepped out in front of the Penn State sex abuse case tonight and he urged the community to have a sense of civility and patience.
Now, thousands of students stormed the campus last night in the protest of the firing of legendary head coach Joe Paterno. Penn State University's Graham Spanier was also fired after the two were linked to former assistant coach Jerry Sandusky.
Sandusky was charged with sexual abusing eight boys over 15 years, many from his own charity, the Second Mile.
And the fallout continues to affect anyone who knew anything at anytime about it.
Massachusetts Attorney General Martha Coakley knows a lot about child sex abuse. She's prosecuted hundreds of cases, including those involving the clergy. And she's OUTFRONT with us tonight. Thanks so much for being with us, Martha. I really appreciate your taking the time and making the effort to come on.
And I just want to get your overall sense of this. Were you shocked when you heard this story, and when you looked at a time line which goes back to at least the early '90s when this started?
MARTHA COAKLEY, MASSACHUSETTS ATTORNEY GENERAL: I had a chance to look at some of the grand jury report. Having done this work for a long time, in some ways, I'm not shocked. And yet, it still, when you read, it is horrifying to realize, even in 2002, that this was going on, and it was unreported.
BURNETT: And does this happen a lot? I mean, I'm curious. I followed the whole Catholic priest sex scandal very closely. I was raised Catholic and had a lot of curiosity about that.
Did you see similar things happen there? Where there just appeared to be a cover-up that was shocking for a regular citizen to even comprehend?
COAKLEY: Well, sure. We saw that in Boston and Massachusetts with decades really of priests who were -- abuses, were moved around to parish to parish. In some instances, there were confidentiality agreements signed.
And when it finally became apparent in early 2000, 2001, we are still dealing with the effects of that. Of course, we had an institutional sense that they didn't have to report under the law at the time. They were exempt in Massachusetts. They did not report.
And as a result of which, kids weren't kept safe. I've done child abuse for a long time. The only way we really keep kids safe from a predator like this, someone who has a sexual predilection for kids -- and these were young boys. These weren't 15, 16.
BURNETT: No.
COAKLEY: They were 10, 11 years old. Unless it is reported by people who see it, we are not going to stop these people.
BURNETT: What is your belief, given that you have investigated these sorts of cases and prosecuted them, of how many more boys there may be? Obviously, eight have come forward so far.
But when I look at the time line and you see that this happened since the early '90s, Second Mile, though, which is -- was started long before that and -- he joined -- Mr. Sandusky joined Penn State back in 1969. I would imagine that this isn't something that just starts at some point in your life.
COAKLEY: No, and I think we found that it is why rehabilitation is very difficult for people who do have a sexual predilection for children. We have to assume that this was a guy who had authority, who had access -- who started his own not-for-profit so he could have availability of a particular vulnerable population of kids, maybe from a broken home, who looked up to him.
And someone like that, frankly could have hundreds of victims in that period of time.
BURNETT: Hundreds of victims.
COAKLEY: Yes, I think that's right.
BURNETT: And does it surprise you? What is your sense of -- what do you think of Joe Paterno? All right? He was fired. The president of Penn state was fired.
Joe Paterno, allegedly, according to the -- not even allegedly, admits to being told about this back in the early '90s -- I'm sorry in 2002. In the late '90s, apparently he knew, but it's unclear. But in 2002, he acknowledges being told specifics of graphic sex acts that happened and he did not pursue it in full.
What could explain that?
COAKLEY: Well, first of all, he did -- look, on one -- on one set of facts here, he did report to the athletic director, whether rightfully or wrongfully, he assumes his job is done. Of course, under most state statutes, you are required to make sure that it is reported and that something happens.
But we're looking back now with hindsight over a period of time. He was not charged by Pennsylvania authorities. Although others were who had an obligation to report.
Whether there was a legal obligation or not, you would hope that whenever it came to someone's attention, again, this is in 2000, we know, even then, a lot more about predator behavior, about the risks that kids face in circumstances like this. You would have hoped that something would have happened and would have been reported. It was not.
BURNETT: When you dealt directly with some of these priests that you dealt with in the clergy cases in Boston and you dealt with the people who worked around them, the people who knew or who looked the other way, did anyone ever explain to you why they looked the other way? Why they knew or saw something awful, like in this case, someone seeing a 10-year-old boy subjected -- and I'm sorry to any children watching, anal intercourse by a grown man, how someone would look the other way?
COAKLEY: First of all, I think that people who are not prepared to see things like this either on a one time or over a period of time, literally do not see it. They do not focus it in a way. They're in denial.
I always say, you know, we never want to think that the parish priests or the coach or the uncle is someone who's abusing our kid. It's too difficult to deal with.
And keep, again, in mind that even in the 1980s and '90s, we were still getting educated about the ways of sexual predators. I think people did not see it.
BURNETT: All right. Well, thank you very much. We appreciate your taking the time again, Martha.
COAKLEY: Thank you.
BURNETT: OK. So, what really happens in these situations? And no one likes to think about it.
But now that the whole country is thinking about it, we wanted to talk to Sheldon Kennedy. He knows the fear and horror that comes with being the victim. He was sexually molested by his hockey coach for five years starting when he was 14 years old. He went on to play professionally in the NHL. He came forward with his story in 1986.
And he is OUTFRONT tonight and he has dedicated a lot of his life to trying to make sure that this doesn't happen to other people.
Sheldon, were you surprised when you heard this story not just that it happened but that it had been happening for so long with so many people looking the other way?
SHELDON KENNEDY, FORMER NHL PLAYER: I wasn't surprised. I had been working in this field for 14 years. And I've seen a lot of institutionalization of these issues. And that's what happens.
And I just -- you know, I think it's one of those things where -- it's a platform for change to happen. It's sad that it has to happen this way. But I think that this is -- it's pole-vaulted this issue into the society, saying, you know what? Enough's enough and we need change.
BURNETT: When you went through this, you went through it for a long time. And then by your own admission, it was something that scarred you, it affected you, it impacted your -- at one point, alcohol and drug abuse.
What made you finally decide to come forward? And when you were being abused, why didn't you come forward?
KENNEDY: Well, I think that's the most difficult question out there that is asked around these sexual abuse issues. Why I didn't say anything. And why didn't he say anything.
I think that for myself, I need to come out because I saw a ton of trusted adults, people who were in the leadership position, around the coach that was abusing me and other people not doing anything about it. And I needed to file a complaint to the RCMP because I was close to ending my own life.
So, that's where it took me. I think that the fears and the shame and the guilt that come with sexual abuse are huge. I think that we really underestimate the damage that these issues and these victims have when they are abused.
We do a lot of work in Canada. And we see our prison systems full of child abuse victims. And it becomes a huge tax on our society. So, the after-effect is absolutely enormous.
BURNETT: There were a lot of people in this case that looked the other way, whether it was Joe Paterno who, as we said, back in 2002, was given this incredibly graphic description by a graduate student and there were obviously others as well, janitors, people who worked for the team who saw it, and I'm sure many others.
Does it surprise you and can you understand why they do not go further? Is there any part of you that sympathizes with Joe Paterno or do you think he is paying the price he should pay for his silence?
KENNEDY: Well, I think that sometimes learning experiences in life are tough ones. But I believe that looking at Joe Paterno's situation at Penn State, he was the ultimate person at Penn State. If he took that to the authorities, I'm sure the authorities would turn around and ask Joe Paterno what he needs to do.
So I think that Penn State made a statement that this is something that's not going to be tolerated in our school by firing him and the president. And I believe, you know, that was the right decision. I mean, you know, Joe Paterno, he needed to do the right thing and he didn't. And sometimes there's a consequence when that happens.
BURNETT: How common do you think this is?
I don't know if you heard Martha Coakley who was involved in prosecuting the Catholic priest abuse cases up in Boston. She was saying she wouldn't be surprised if it ended up there were hundreds boys that could have been affected in this particular case. Obviously, we know of eight who have come forward.
But do you think that this is common place in professional sports and in high-level college athletics? Or what is your sense after being a victim and now someone who deals with it from an advocacy position?
KENNEDY: Well, what we see, Erin, is that, you know, no institution is exempt from this happening where there's children involved. It's not just sports. It's everywhere.
And the FBI studies show that usually the average pedophile affects over 100 kids before they're caught, if they're ever caught. And a child has to tell seven adults in their life before anybody takes action.
So, to me, we need to focus on the adults that surround these situations and give them the tools to know what to do, because we can't just trust that the organizations that we're putting our children into are going to do the right thing.
BURNETT: Seven adults before something happens.
Thank you very much. We appreciate you taking the time to talk to us and to try to make a difference.
KENNEDY: Thank you very much, Erin. I appreciate it.
BURNETT: All right. Now, let's check in with Anderson Cooper.
Anderson, what's on "A.C. 360" tonight?
ANDERSON COOPER, HOST, "A.C. 360": We got breaking news on the program tonight.
The lawyer for former Penn State assistant Jerry Sandusky tells CNN's Jason Carroll how he feels about his role in bringing down coaching legend Joe Paterno. Jason also asked about the alleged sexual abuse for at least eight kids, his reaction to the very detailed and graphic grand jury indictment from 1998. We'll have that. We'll speak with Jason.
And a Pennsylvania state lawmaker who's pushing for legislation to prevent this type of incident from happening again.
We'll also look deeper into this charity called Second Mile. It's the nonprofit accused molester Jerry Sandusky started. Investigators say he may have used to groom kids he would later abuse.
Also, the very raw politics. Republican presidential candidate Rick Perry as he tries to recover from last night's oops moment. Our panel John King, Candy Crowley, David Gergen, lay out if the campaign can be salvaged and how it's going to affect the overall race.
Those stories and a Major League ball player kidnapped at gunpoint in front of his family. We'll have the latest on that, his possible whereabouts and tonight's "Ridiculist" all at the top of the hour, Erin.
BURNETT: All right. Anderson, thank you very much. We appreciate it.
And talking about that catcher for the Washington Nationals, Wilson Ramos. He was kidnapped last night in Venezuela. It is a pretty terrifying place down there. We're going to find out who took him.
And Turkey hit with the second earthquake in a month. Rescuers doing everything they can to find survivors. We're going to go there in just a moment.
And Academy Award-nominated actor Edward Norton comes OUTFRONT.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BURNETT: We do this same thing every night, our "Outer Circle". We reach out to our sources around the world.
And tonight, we begin in Turkey. Emergency crews have saved 25 people at least trapped in the rubble of the 5.7 magnitude quake, which rocked the city of Van.
Gul Tuysuz is there. And, Gul, how are the rescue efforts going tonight?
GUL TUYSUZ: Erin, I just spoke to a search and rescue team leader. He said he and his crew were here just 10 days ago when the big earthquake hit. They had left behind a skeleton crew but came back when 25 more buildings collapsed after an earthquake hit here.
Again, you'll see behind me, there are several different crews working here tonight. They're working in eight-hour shifts. They say that the cold does not bother them. But expect snowfall could prolong rescue efforts -- Erin.
BURNETT: Gul, thank you.
And now to Greece where the country has a new interim prime minister. A step in the right direction.
He's scheduled to be sworn in tomorrow.
Diana has been covering this for us in Athens.
Diana, who is Lucas Papademos?
DIANA MAGNAY, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Erin, it's a brave man who will take on this job. The country's deep in debt. The economy is shrinking. And the people are angry.
And the only way the country can get the money that it needs to stay afloat is through more savage cuts to jobs, pensions and salaries.
If you thought it would take a Harvard professor to sort this one out, then you'd be right. Lucas Papademos only flew in from the United States on Monday and now he's Greece's next prime minister. He helped steer Greece into the euro 10 years ago. Now, he's got to make sure it stays there -- Erin.
BURNETT: All right. Diana, thank you very much.
Well, Major League Baseball helping authorities find one of its own tonight. This is sort of a bizarre story.
But here it is -- 24-year-old Wilson Ramos is catcher and rising star with the Washington Nationals. He was kidnapped last night in Venezuela.
Ramos was in his home country and playing in its winter league during the MLB off-season. The team spokesman said he was abducted by four men at gunpoint.
Joining us now is security expert Daniel Karson.
Daniel, thanks for being with us.
So, four men at gun pint. Who could these people be? DANIEL KARSON, CHAIRMAN OF THE AMERICAS, KROLL ASSOCIATES: They could be anybody in the kidnap and ransom business. They could be a loosely affiliated group. They could even be associated with an official agency. They can be police.
BURNETT: Official?
KARSON: Acting unofficially, of course.
But Venezuela is a country that is very unstable right now, and this would not be totally out of possibility.
BURNETT: So, how do this situation. I mean, I know there have been -- I mean, ransom and kidnapping is not, as you say, uncommon in Venezuela. So, what do these guys want? I mean, are they going to try and get ransom and get him back? Or is this a life or death situation possibly?
KARSON: If this is a straight kidnapping for ransom, what they want is money, and if it's done according to the book, they will -- there will be an arrangement where they accept the ransom or the ransom will be paid. And again, if it's according to the book, they'll release him.
BURNETT: Bags of cash kind of ransom?
KARSON: Bags of cash kind of ransom.
BURNETT: What are the chances that he'll be found, and how long do these things usually drag out?
KARSON: It's impossible to tell. These can last anywhere from a couple of days to as much as a few years depending upon the circumstances. Kidnapping and ransom is an actual industry with, quote-unquote, "rules" that are applied to the kidnapping.
BURNETT: They follow them even in the -- I mean, that they are rules, and if they're in there you play by them.
KARSON: They used to until the kidnapping and ransom business kind of came apart when Somalian pirates began stealing ships and people, and drug gangs begin kidnapping of victims.
But you could reliably accept that in a kidnapping someone -- there was a going rate. You'd pay the going rate. You'd demand proof of life, a picture or a live conversation.
BURNETT: Right.
KARSON: And then you'd make the arrangement. And the victim was delivered presumably safe and sound. But we don't know yet who these people are or why they kidnapped Wilson, whether they did it for political reasons or personal reasons or just for money.
BURNETT: So what is the cost usually for security of these places? By the way, I would imagine that he had some security. I mean, he's from there. He's well aware.
But what does it cost to get security?
KARSON: Security is not a very expensive outlay. To obtain bodyguard service for somebody who is high net worth, it can be anywhere from a few hundred dollars a day to a few thousand dollars a day. And for somebody who's high net worth, that's not a lot of money.
BURNETT: And then you just got to trust your bodyguards.
KARSON: You have to trust your bodyguards. You have to do the background investigation and make sure that you can trust your bodyguards.
BURNETT: All right. Well, thank you very much. I appreciate you explaining all this. And we'll hope that Mr. Ramos is found safe and sound.
KARSON: Well, OUTFRONT next, Academy Award-nominated actor Edward Norton comes OUTFRONT.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BURNETT: And now, my interview with Edward Norton.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BURNETT: Two-time Oscar nominee Edward Norton helped raise money for the Maasai Wilderness Conservation Fund. During the New York City marathon, he had a team of runners. Two years ago, he set up a Web site to make donating to causing like this easier. It's called Crowdrise, and Edward Norton joins us now.
Great to see you, Edward. Thank you so much for coming and talking about this.
EDWARD NORTON, ACTOR, PHILANTROPIST: Thanks. Glad to be here.
BURENTT: We were, you know, talking recently about how even in the tough economy you're still seeing so many people give a lot of money.
Tell me about Crowdrise and exactly how it's supposed to work.
NORTON: Well, I think you're right. I think it's a wonderful truth of American society, is that on a person-to-person basis, we're an incredibly generous culture people. There is a strong culture of giving back.
And one of the things that's really evolved in the last couple decades in the United States as a very potent form of fund-raising is peer-to-peer or crowd source fund-raising where people are using tools on the Internet and social networking and things like that to reach out to each other and say, you know, this is what I'm doing. This is what I care about. Will you back me? And that -- we've found that that's an incredibly powerful way for people to engage each other and support causes.
BURNETT: So, people can say, OK, I like this cause. I mean, you said, and I want to make sure I have these numbers right. You have more than 500 charities have signed up. You have 1.6 million people somehow become involved.
NORTON: Oh, yes. No, I mean, on Crowdrise we have people using it individually. We have organizations using it.
With Crowdrise, what we wanted to do was, you know, there are -- there are places like Facebook where you define your life by who your friends are and socializing. Twitter is kind of -- this is my life based on what I'm doing right now.
We wanted to create a platform where you can track your long-term charitable life, where you could set up projects, raise funds for things you care about, reach out to friends and family. But then when it's over, instead of it just disappearing like other sites, you know, you get to stay there and see over time.
BURNETT: So, you can see kind of your return on donation, right?
NORTON: Yes. And also if you run the marathon this month but then you support your brother's -- the program your brother is involved with the next month, you can see the cumulative impact of what you do.
BURNETT: But how does your math work in terms of how much of my donation goes to the cost?
NORTON: You know, one of the dirty secrets of fundraising is that it costs money to raise money. And when you go, well all go to rubber chicken dinners or galas and they say we've raised $1 million tonight. But the truth is it often costs 50 percent of what you raised to produce the event.
BURNETT: Right.
NORTON: So, some forms of fund-raising, many of the forms of fundraising that we're most familiar with are actually very, very inefficient in terms of the cost, you know, mailings and things like that.
So, one of the great things about web-based, crowd-sourced sort of friend-to-friend fund-raising is that it's an incredibly cost- efficient way of fund-raising. The charities get much, much more of the donations than it does in other traditional forms of fundraising.
BURNETT: And in terms of your day job, acting, anything you can tell us about what you're working on right now? You're still doing it?
NORTON: Let's see. I did a film with Wes Anderson, who is one of my favorite filmmakers. He made films like "Rushmore" and "Royal Tenenbaums" and the "Fantastic Mr. Fox," and then we're making the next Bourne film now.
BURNETT: All right. That will be very exciting. We'll look forward for that.
All right. Wonderful. OK. We'll talk to you soon. Thanks so much.
NORTON: Yes. Great to see you. Thanks for your time.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BURNETT: All right. Thanks so much for watching.
"ANDERSON COOPER 360" starts right now.
