Return to Transcripts main page
Erin Burnett Outfront
Secret Service Scandal; Etan Patz Cold Case; Legalizing Marijuana
Aired April 20, 2012 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ERIN BURNETT, HOST: We have breaking news tonight. Just moments ago, more Secret Service agents resigned over the prostitution scandal. And we know more about some of the men. And George Zimmerman walking on bail and he spoke out today. We speak to one of his friends and it is 4:20 somewhere. Let's go OUTFRONT.
Well, good evening, everyone. I'm Erin Burnett, and OUTFRONT tonight, we have breaking news. CNN just learning three more Secret Service agents have resigned tonight in the wake of a prostitution scandal that rocked the agency. The Secret Service also announced an additional employee is now under investigation, this employee on administrative leave tonight. His security clearance has been suspended.
Now, the total so far six Secret Service members have lost their jobs because of allegations they brought prostitutes back to their hotel rooms in Cartagena, Colombia while on official business with the president of the United States. We're also learning that the number of military members under investigation in the case has now grown from 10 to 11. Now this is interesting. It's all branches here.
We've got six from the Army, two from the Marine Corps, two from the Navy, and one from the Air Force. Just a short time ago, we learned that the embattled director of the Secret Service Mark Sullivan actually briefed the president today in person on his investigation, which overall is expanding to include interviews with every Secret Service member on the trip, hotel staff, and the alleged prostitutes. It will also include a look at what happened in this Hilton hotel where agents also stayed during the trip in addition to the Caribe, which as you may recall, was where the Secret Service agents allegedly liaised (ph) with the prostitutes.
Meanwhile new details are coming out tonight about the two Secret Service supervisors who have been identified in the case. Now both left the agency earlier this week and we want to tell you what we know about them. David Chaney bragged on his Facebook page as you see him there about protecting Sarah Palin during the 2008 campaign. In a photo posted in January 2009, Chaney is standing behind Palin wearing dark glasses and what appears to be a wedding ring. Under the photo Chaney wrote quote, "I was really checking her out if you know what I mean."
Chaney has been with the agency since 1987. He's the son of a former Secret Service agent. He's married and has an adopted son according to his posting on Reunion.com. He was on the vice presidential detail for Al Gore and Dick Cheney. Now Greg Stokes is the second Secret Service member who has been identified in the case. He supervised the Canine Training Unit at the Secret Service Training Center outside of Washington. Court documents indicate Greg Stokes was involved in a divorce case from 2003 to 2005.
His former wife was also a Secret Service employee. Well, the question tonight is how many more heads will roll at the Secret Service? And will the White House be able to remain above the fray? Fran Townsend is our national security contributor. She has been reporting on this case, talking to everyone involved. And Fran, it's good to see you tonight. What are your sources telling you about the latest developments tonight?
FRANCES FRAGOS TOWNSEND, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY CONTRIBUTOR: You know, Erin, the most interesting thing about this is we've both identified one additional service, Secret Service member from the Cartagena trip who has been implicated and one has been cleared. One has been cleared of misconduct and is now going to face administrative process.
You know it's interesting. I think what you take from that is they're being very aggressive. They're going to go where the facts lead them. The sort of things you'd want to know, you'd want to be confident about. And it's today that Director Sullivan was actually received in the Oval Office and briefed the president of the United States on the conduct of the investigation. That meeting is important for two reasons.
One it signals that the president has got confidence in Director Sullivan and the investigation he's conducting. And two, it's really important for morale. You know Erin, there are lots of men and women who serve in the Secret Service honorably and well with courage and they need to know that they're still respected by the president. And the receiving of Director Sullivan is just the kind of signal they were looking for.
BURNETT: Are you surprised, Fran, that -- I mean at least as far as we know here at CNN, this is the first meeting directly between Director Sullivan and the president. Are you surprised given what's happened that it took this long?
TOWNSEND: I am, Erin. Because you know, these are people who are really very much in the president's space every hour of every day. And they protect him and his family. There's constant interaction between the president and the head of his personal detail. And so I am a little surprised. Although I expect the kinds of things you don't see are not reported is the sort of interaction that the president would've had with his personal detail giving them encouragement and support.
BURNETT: Right.
TOWNSEND: But I do think -- I do think it's important that this meeting took place. I'm sorry it didn't happen a little sooner but I think it is important. BURNETT: And do you expect the president to continue to try to keep his distance from the case? I think you raise an interesting point. Part of the reason I'm sure he would want to do that is because of personal relationships that Americans don't see that he does have with his detail and I'm sure a lot of those relationships are frankly rather are personal.
TOWNSEND: That's right. Look, I think that what you'll find is the president can get briefed by Director Sullivan on the status of the investigation, what personnel actions have been taken without getting immersed in the actual details of the case against each person. You don't want the president down at that level of detail. But he doesn't have to be to meet with Director Sullivan and get briefed.
BURNETT: So Fran, one thing that, you know, there are a lot of people that serve in all of these institutions. So to your point, the vast majority of them incredibly professional and probably, you know, embarrassed and humiliated by what they're hearing a few of their colleagues did. But yet, when we look at what's happening in the military, as I said, broad based (ph) Army, Marine Corps, Navy, U.S. Air Force, Secret Service. I mean that's a little scary, isn't it that this was -- and it wasn't like these guys were so embarrassed they kept it in a little club. I mean a lot of these -- this is pretty broad.
TOWNSEND: No, Erin, you're absolutely right. The interesting thing about the Army unit that's been implicated is that this was what they call their AOR, their area of responsibility, so the -- at least as far as the Army members go, they had been in Cartagena. They've trained there before. They're familiar with their surroundings.
One wonders if -- because remember what we know of the facts here, the agents, the Secret Service agents weren't on the ground less than 12 hours before they were out in this bar and they had found these prostitutes. One has to wonder somebody had to be pretty familiar with Cartagena and where you could procure these services and we know that that Army unit was in their area of responsibility.
BURNETT: And so do you think it's going to turn out that a lot of these guys, Secret Service, Army that ended up being friends across lines or just that it was such a sort of a clubby atmosphere that people felt that they could go do something like this with a guy they didn't know. And I'm sort getting at this because I'm wondering, you know you would think people would think that you know somebody you don't know says oh let's go hang out at this bar with prostitutes that I don't know, you wouldn't trust the guy, maybe he would turn you in. I mean it seems to kind of have cultural implications here.
TOWNSEND: That's right, although I will tell you, you know you've heard -- we've heard reports of these wheels-up (ph) parties. I think what you find when you travel with the president, there's an advance team that goes in, there are folks -- it's very intense when the president is on the ground. The president leaves and these people are in a tight environment. They only have each other to socialize with, and so -- BURNETT: Yes.
TOWNSEND: -- you know there's this sense of camaraderie that builds up. And so there is a relationship of trust across branches of service between everybody, the White House staff, the press, and the military and Secret Service.
BURNETT: That's true. On those planes, we all have to sit very closely together in the back. All right, Fran. Thank you very much. Appreciate it.
And new developments in one of the most famous disappearances in history, police a step closer today to finding the original child that appeared on the side of a milk carton.
And two airlines about to merge; will the deal get done? Will they actually make money for once off a deal like that? And the ultimate high holiday today. It is sort of a religious thing for some people and we checked out the numbers, assembled a panel of experts. Is it time to legalize it?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BURNETT: Developments in the case of missing 6-year-old Etan Patz, investigators have been searching the basement of a carpenter who lived near the missing boy when he disappeared in 1979. Today his lawyer said he denies any involvement in Etan Patz's disappearance, but after 33 years, Etan's parents still live in the same apartment. They didn't change their phone number. They didn't move. They didn't give up hope about their boy.
Etan who was 6 disappeared on the morning of May 25th 1979 right after leaving his parent's apartment 113 Prince Street (ph). The first time he was allowed to walk to the school bus stop alone. Etan's case has been a catalyst in the search for missing children. He transformed it in this country. He was one of the first faces to appear on the side of a milk carton. Erin Runnion is no stranger to this kind of tragedy. Her daughter was brutally murdered about 24 hours after she disappeared just playing on her bike right outside her home in her small neighborhood. Earlier I asked Erin about never losing hope.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ERIN RUNNION, MOTHER OF MURDERED GIRL SAMANTHA RUNNION: In the years since Samantha's abduction, I have come to know a lot of families of children who have been missing for a long time. And many of them keep the child's room the same 20 years later and they don't move because if there is -- I know Colleen Nick (ph) keeps the porch light on for Morgan in case some day she comes home and it's been 17 years for her, so you never lose hope.
BURNETT: We were talking last night with a woman who covered this story for decades, written a book about it and said the family's gotten used to these sort of false hopes and that they don't want to get their hopes up this time. What do you think that feels like? I know that your situation was resolved in a horrific way rather quickly. But do you think that they still get that hope or that feeling in their stomach every time when there's a call?
RUNNION: Well, I think that this sounds like one of the most promising leads that they've had in a very long time. But I do know, again, I don't know the Patz family personally, but I know lots of other families. And every time a lead comes in, you can't help but -- your stomach, you know, is in a bind and you're anxious and waiting and you're cautiously optimistic every time. And I can only imagine what that does over 30 year's time.
BURNETT: You had the -- you had to look at the man who killed your daughter and look at him in the face. Do you think that this -- that Etan's parents at this point would want to be able to do that? Was that something that you are -- glad is not the right word -- but that you are -- you're glad happened?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It was important, important.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes?
RUNNION: Absolutely. And I'm sure that every interview I've seen with Mr. Patz, for sure, they would want that. The victim impact statement that you get to make after the culmination of the trial, it's important for victims' families and surviving family members to be able to voice and tell the perpetrator what they did, what they did and how it will never end for the surviving family members. So I do -- I hope and pray that they get that day in court.
BURNETT: You had that day and then you also have gone on to make this a cause, the Joyful Child Foundation. You also when Samantha died, you forced the state of California to begin the Amber Alert program. So you've been a part of making a difference to try to help families find their children, to help these stories end in happier ways. But how much further do we have to go because we do still hear about these stories much more often than we should.
RUNNION: Absolutely. You know, we have a long way to go. We've made great progress in the 30 plus years. You know back -- believe it or not 30 plus years ago the rate of child abductions in America was about the same, 58,000 non-family related abductions every year and about 115 of those cases are cases like ours where it's a complete stranger and the child is not recovered alive. But the difference is, for the last 10 years since the initiation of the Amber Alert nationwide and increased awareness and communities, the recovery rate of those children has been consistently over 90 percent whereas 30 plus years ago it was actually under 70 percent.
So we are making strides, but what we need to do is really focus on the children and that's why I called our foundation the Joyful Child because ultimately that's what we want to preserve. That's what we want to protect is the joy of our children and their right to a joyful childhood. And I think so often we focus on reactive measures rather than being proactive. As parents, you know, it's a topic that we don't want to think about. We don't want to believe that it's possible, but by doing that we actually leave our children more vulnerable to predators and not safer. So coming up proactively with safety plans, role-playing, what could you do if this happened? If you were in this situation, you were lost, you couldn't find me, where could you go, all of those sorts of things. You know it's basic safety education has to become more ingrained and more part of our public education system frankly.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BURNETT: So three major unions in American Airlines say they'd support a potential merger with U.S. Airways. Now U.S. Airways hasn't actually officially made an offer for American, but getting union support is crucial. You can't do a deal without it so this matters. American Airlines' parent company AMR filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy in November and in a letter to employees, U.S. Airways CEO Doug Parker said we've got a possible merger with American. He said quote "It would be a unique opportunity that we should not ignore."
And that brings me to our number tonight, one, that's the number of times Mr. Parker has used the phrase "unique opportunity". It was when U.S. Airways tried to acquire Delta Airlines back in 2006. In a letter to the Delta CEO then Mr. Parker wrote "this is a unique opportunity to create an airline that is even better positioned to thrive long into the future." Well American (INAUDIBLE). Delta Airlines was under bankruptcy protection like American is now. The company turned down the deal, ultimately a smart move.
Delta got itself out of bankruptcy, acquired Northwest Airlines. American meantime has rebuffed merger talks for now. But an analyst that we spoke to today says American ultimately will do the deal. All those frequent fliers out there, what do you think? American U.S. Airways, do you love it or you loathe it? Going to bag your miles and move over to Delta or United.
All right, still OUTFRONT is it time to legalize it? We crunched the numbers and actually pretty incredible what we found when you look at the cost of enforcing a marijuana ban. And thousands gather to protest military rule in Egypt today. We're going to go live to Tahrir Square.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BURNETT: So it's 21 minutes past the hour on 4/20 so some of you are already you know leaning back, lighting up. Where are my pot glasses? I forgot them today. Jessica laughed. I forgot my glasses. All right marijuana use is illegal in most states. Sixteen states allow medical marijuana use. Studies show though that the relaxing laws could mean big money for the government. So here are some of the numbers.
Nationwide $7.7 billion a year to enforce the prohibition of marijuana, which includes police on the streets, court costs, putting convicted users and sellers in jail, now state and federal governments could expect to rake in between two and $6 billion a year in revenue if marijuana was legal and taxable according to analysis by a Harvard professor. Now this means if you do the math state governments alone are looking at as much as $14 billion a year if pot were legal. Reihan Salam and Michael Waldman join me now; Reihan columnist for "The Daily" and co-author of "Grand New Party"; Michael the head speechwriter under President Clinton, who didn't inhale.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did not inhale.
BURNETT: Well, so, I mean --
(CROSSTALK)
BURNETT: I'm sorry. Sometimes things just come straight from my brain to my mouth. All right but we are talking about real money here. Why not start -- we have obviously 16 states I believe have already legalized medical marijuana, so why not?
MICHAEL WALDMAN, BRENNAN CENTER FOR JUSTICE, NYU: You know, it's a really interesting question. I mean I think there's no question that with demographic changes and everything else the country is evolving in this direction. A lot of people are concerned about the social costs of having a big liquor company or tobacco company pushing a new narcotic, but there are massive social costs to the war on drugs as it's been fought especially when it comes to sort of racial issues.
In New York City, an African-American man is seven times more likely to be arrested for marijuana possession than a white man the same age even though public health authorities will tell us that the rate of marijuana use is higher among whites. It is -- there's a cost in prisons, in lifetime felony convictions that is even greater in some ways than what those statistics were.
BURNETT: Reihan, 50 percent of Americans now say they favor legalization of marijuana, which is at I believe a record high. But you say that even if we wanted to, if we wanted to do it, as I think sort of what Michael is going towards, it wouldn't work.
REIHAN SALAM, COLUMNIST, "THE DAILY": I think decriminalization is a reasonable way to go forward. But I think the problem is, I think what we really need is legalization without commercialization. I think that's part of what Michael was getting at before. When you commercialize the consumption of marijuana, you're likely to see a dramatic increase in consumption. No matter what we do if we decriminalize, it's going to become more widely available. And that's not in itself a disaster.
BURNETT: You think more people would smoke pot? I mean I don't know --
SALAM: Absolutely --
BURNETT: I don't know anybody who wants to smoke pot --
SALAM: Absolutely --
BURNETT: -- or would think about it who doesn't do it because of the law --
SALAM: Absolutely because basically it would just get radically cheaper. For example, cocaine despite prohibition has become dramatically cheaper over the last 10 years and consumption has gone up as a result. Now I do think that Michael is absolutely right. People should not be going to jail.
BURNETT: Right.
SALAM: It's incredibly costly and also the human cost for those families is incredibly high. But I am concerned that if it becomes exactly the kind of thing that we market aggressively that would have ugly consequences, as well. So I think that it's all about threading the needle --
(CROSSTALK)
BURNETT: I mean you know it might make some people angry, but I would think that most people would agree you don't want a whole lot more people doing it and doing it all the time. That's not --
WALDMAN: Doing any drug --
BURNETT: Any drug --
WALDMAN: -- narcotic, alcohol --
BURNETT: Whether you want to call it addictive or not.
SALAM: I actually will say that I think marijuana is actually better than alcohol in a lot of ways and I think that actually --
BURNETT: Interesting.
SALAM: -- one strategy I would pursue is let's get rid of the minimum drinking age. That's an issue I would love to see political candidates get behind because that way younger people learn how to use alcohol. But I do think that there's --
BURNETT: Right --
(CROSSTALK)
BURNETT: -- binge drinking as soon as they get to college --
SALAM: Absolutely -- absolutely --
BURNETT: These horrible stories you always hear about --
(CROSSTALK)
SALAM: But there is a huge double standard about marijuana versus alcohol that I think is very, very foolish --
BURNETT: Interesting point.
WALDMAN: With the 21-year-old drinking age, you have an entire generation of 100 percent (INAUDIBLE) learning to disrespect the law and that's a problem in and of itself, too. SALAM: Absolutely.
BURNETT: You probably had a fake ID when you were in college, right?
(LAUGHTER)
WALDMAN: You know, it was a different era.
BURNETT: Listen to him. He won't even admit it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No --
BURNETT: He wouldn't even walk into that one. I had a sister who luckily looked a whole lot like me.
(CROSSTALK)
BURNETT: We'll leave it at that. All right thanks very much to both of you. Appreciate it.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BURNETT: Still OUTFRONT, Zimmerman released.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Zimmerman makes this self-serving apology in court.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I am sorry for the loss of your son.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why today?
BURNETT: Deadly crash.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Severe thunderstorms could have been a factor -- more than 120 people all of them feared dead.
BURNETT: All this OUTFRONT in our second half.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BURNETT: We start the second half of our show with stories we care about, where we focus on our own reporting, do the work and find the "OutFront 5".
And first tonight breaking news on the Secret Service, we've learned tonight three more Secret Service agents have resigned in the wake of the prostitution scandal. A total of six Secret Service members now losing their jobs because of allegations they brought prostitutes back to their rooms while on assignment with the president.
We're also learning that the number of military service members under investigation is now 11. Additional person was put under investigation today. Six from the Army, two of the Marine Corps, two of the Navy, and one from the U.S. Air Force. Number two: a disturbing story out of India. A 26-year-old Bollywood actress kidnapped and beheaded by two other actors. Meenakshi Thapar was kidnapped by a man and his girlfriend after hearing her brag about her family's wealth. The two tried to extort the equivalent of $28,000 from her family, and when she only gave them $1,000, they killed her.
The couple was caught with Thapar's SIM card from her cell phone and confessed to the absolutely horrific murder.
Number three, we're continuing to follow the story of the mysterious death of British businessman Neil Heywood, Bo Xilai was forced out of his top communist party job, his wife arrested in connection with his Mr. Heywood's death.
CNN's Stan Grant got an inside look at the Chinese hotel where Heywood died. In the hotel room, there was exposed wiring on the lamp and dead bugs, but almost fittingly the art on the wall is a puzzle. A nearby villa is filled with drab furniture and dirty walls. There are still a heavy police presence as investigators continue to work on the case of what happened the night he died and whether poison was forced down his throat.
Number four, French presidential candidates making their final pitch ahead of Sunday's election. There are 10 running. It's the first round of votes that's going to help narrow the field down, but it's important to note here that socialist candidate Francois Hollande is leading current President Nicholas Sarkozy in the polls. The general election is in June.
The big issue there, same as here, the economy. France has a 10 percent unemployment rate.
Well, it has been 260 days since the U.S. lost its top credit rating, what are we doing to get it back? Today, a decent day for stocks, trying to help, Dow and S&P higher, NASDAQ lower -- thanks to Apple which actually closed down about 2.5 percent.
We have some new developments tonight in the death of Trayvon Martin. George Zimmerman who, of course, says he shot and killed the Florida teen in self-defense, that was back in February, is going to be released on a $150,000 bond. In a surprising move, Zimmerman took the stand today during a bond hearing and apologized to the family of Trayvon Martin.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE ZIMMERMAN, DEFENDANT: I wanted to say I am sorry for the loss of your son. I did not know how old he was. I thought he was a little bit younger than I am. And I did not know if he was armed or not.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Ben Crump, an attorney for Martin's family said the family was devastated by the news of the bail and questioned the timing of the apology you just heard from George Zimmerman.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BENJAMIN CRUMP, ATTY FOR MARTIN FAMILY: Why today? When he made all those statements to the police, why not show remorse there? If he was sincerely apologetic for killing this unarmed child?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: We're going to hear from a friend of George Zimmerman's in a moment about why he said that. But his wife and parents testified on his behalf today saying he wasn't a flight risk nor a danger to the community. He is likely to remain in jail for a few more days.
He'll be wearing an electronic monitor when he's released. He'll have to check in every three days.
Paul Callan is a former homicide prosecutor and legal analyst here. Janet Johnson is a criminal defense attorney in Florida.
Paul, let me start with you. Hearing George Zimmerman speak today the first time America has heard his voice. How unusual is it for the defendant to take the stand in a bond hearing?
PAUL CALLAN, CNN LEGAL CONTRIBUTOR: I can't emphasize enough how highly unusual this is. I've been doing cases for over 25 years and a lot of murder cases in that time. I've never ever seen the defendant take the stand at this stage. Sometimes they take the stand at trial.
And to show you why it's so dangerous -- in the brief testimony, he said a couple of things that may come back to haunt him. He said -- he made a mistake about how old Trayvon Martin was and most importantly he said I didn't know if he was armed or not. Now, he'd be much better of at trial saying I thought he was armed, he might have been armed, but now he's saying I didn't know. So I think it's dangerous to put him on the stand.
But O'Mara was trying to humanize him and I think he did succeed in that. It was a good press.
BURNETT: You would have thought, Janet, given what Paul just said about opening yourself up, wouldn't O'Mara have gone through with George Zimmerman, what to say, what not to say.
I mean, I understand he could've made a mistake off script. But if you're going to say something, those seem like pretty basic things, Paul just said, not to say this early.
JANET JOHNSON, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, I disagree a little bit because the family's been asking for an apology and he actually tried to meet with the family yesterday. They did not want to meet with him.
So I think this was the first forum he had to do it. But the mistake saying, you know, I thought he was a little younger than I am and I think on the 911, you know, he says maybe late teens. That's a significant slip. But I think what he actually said was he didn't know, you know, that he wasn't armed.
And at this point, it turns out he wasn't armed. Obviously that was a mistake. And I think that's what he was trying to say.
I thought he was armed and that's what stand your ground allowed me to do, thinking he was armed and maybe he's going to kill me.
BURNETT: Paul, investigator testified that the evidence heard today was not consistent with Zimmerman's account. So I want to hear what he said under cross-examination from O'Mara today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARK O'MARA, GEORGE ZIMMERMAN'S ATTORNEY: Do you have any evidence to contradict or that conflicts with his contention given before he knew any of the evidence that would conflict with the fact that he stated I walked back to my car? Walk towards the car?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No.
O'MARA: Any evidence that conflicts -- any eyewitnesses, anything that conflicts with the contention that Mr. Martin assaulted first?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: As to who threw the first blow? No.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Well, is that a problem?
CALLAN: Oh, this is a major problem for the prosecution.
BURNETT: Who was first? This is huge.
CALLAN: Well, it's absolutely huge, because if Trayvon Martin started it. If he was the initial aggressor, then self-defense may be appropriate. We still have to see what the facts are.
But what's really unusual here is he calls a police witness, the one witness who was involved in the probable cause affidavit, that affidavit that everyone's been critical of and he basically tears him apart and shows there's no basis for some of the conclusions that were in the affidavit.
So I think he really, really damaged the prosecutor's case in this little bit of cross-examination.
BURNETT: And, Janet, this does appear to go to the heart of everything when people have conversation. Well, if George Zimmerman started this, he does not have a defense. But if they're not clear on that at this point, it does seem that it would really hurt the prosecution.
JOHNSON: Oh, it's devastating because preponderance of the evidence is the first standard that's going to be applied. And if a judge thinks it's more likely than not that it was Martin that started this altercation, then the whole thing's going to be thrown out. And right now on record, the detective says we have nothing that contradicts it.
And that detective, by the way, wasn't subpoenaed by Mr. O'Mara, he just happened to be there at Angela Corey's request. So, it's a huge coup for Mark O'Mara today.
BURNETT: He said he wasn't ready to testify.
CALLAN: He wasn't ready to testify. And we find out also that, you know, the woman friend of Trayvon Martin who they based everything on was interviewed for the first time I think five weeks post- incident. So there are a lot of real questions that get raised in this bond hearing and they were developed today.
BURNETT: Now, as I indicated, the Zimmerman family testified. His wife testified and defended him, standing by him, as well as his parents.
His father -- since we showed this video to you. I know a lot of viewers may remember seeing the surveillance video, the original surveillance video, Paul, you and I were talking about it that night, a lot of people said, well, did George Zimmerman look like he was injured? Obviously, he'd already been to a medic at that point. It was hard to tell what it meant.
But Zimmerman's father talked about the injuries his son sustained today and here's what he said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
O'MARA: What did George's head look like when you saw him the day after?
ROBERT ZIMMERMAN, SR., GEORGE ZIMMERMAN'S FATHER: Well, his face was swollen quite a bit. He had a protective cover over his nose. His lip was swollen and cut. And there were two vertical gashes on the back of his head.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Now, Paul, we didn't see that in the video, but that video was hard to see. So I don't want to imply that's where you can get the be all and end all answer. But, you know, what do you make of this?
CALLAN: You know, the video we saw when he was handcuffed going into the precinct didn't show a lot, but he had been treated, of course, at the scene and so it's possible that the stuff was apparent later on.
But this is important because if his nose was broken and he had gashes in the back of his head, that corroborates his story that he was rather viciously attacked. So -- but I want to see medical records. Why aren't we seeing medical records? The father's testimony, of course, the father's going to be on his side.
BURNETT: And, Janet, it seems this is easy to figure out an answer to. There are medical records.
JOHNSON: Right. Right. And apparently, there's a question about whether the defense has them and Angela Corey hasn't actually subpoenaed them. But, you know, they don't need to prove it beyond a reasonable doubt, the defense. They just need some evidence.
And here's the father saying, I saw it. If they can't contradict it, that again, it was a bad day for Angela Corey and Bernie de la Rionda. They have nothing to contradict that as far as we can tell.
BURNETT: All right. Well, thanks very much to both of you. We appreciate it.
Well, we wanted to know more about what George Zimmerman's demeanor might reveal about the state of his mind, because you -- like all of us -- were probably watching him intently to figure out what his face showed and his body weight and everything else.
So we bring in Patti Wood now, a language expert.
Patty, I appreciate you taking the time.
I want to show again the video of George Zimmerman when he walked into the court. You know, he's got that kind of -- looks like rope here around his arms and his waist. He's handcuffed.
What do you see here about -- what does this tell you about this man?
PATTI WOOD, BODY LANGUAGE EXPERT: Well, I think it's important to realize that under stress, arms want to come up to fight or defend, so when you restrain arms with handcuffs, it makes you feel more vulnerable. So it brings up anger and fear more strongly.
So, when we're seeing some of the posture, sort of imperious posture, with his chin jutted forward which to me shows anger. There is something underneath that also causes that.
BURNETT: All right. After he apologized to the Martin family and we had just played that for our viewers a couple of moments ago, the prosecutor then interrogated him. I wanted to play a little bit of that because I know there's something in there you heard or saw you wanted to talk about. So, here it is.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PROSECUTOR: After you committed this crime and you spoke to the police, did you ever make that statement to the police, sir? That you were sorry for what you'd done or their loss?
ZIMMERMAN: No, sir.
PROSECUTOR: You never stated that, did you? ZIMMERMAN: I don't remember what I said. I believe I did say that.
PROSECUTOR: You told that to the police?
ZIMMERMAN: In one of the statements I said that I felt sorry for the family.
PROSECUTOR: You did?
ZIMMERMAN: Yes, sir.
PROSECUTOR: So that would be recorded? Because all of those conversations were recorded, right?
ZIMMERMAN: Yes, sir.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: What do you see or hear there, Patti?
WOOD: Well, under this line of questioning, you see quite a few micro facial cues. Of course, I went through it with stop motion, as well. So, you see asymmetrical cues, you see grimaces on the side of his face, you definitely see a lot of glaring, eyes coming down in focus towards the prosecutor, as well.
So though he seems on the surface very pulled together and restrained, underneath there was a lot of anger responses to that prosecutor's line of questioning.
BURNETT: George Zimmerman's father called in to give testimony. We played that when he talked about the gashes on the back of his son's head. George Zimmerman listened to that. What did you see as he listened?
WOOD: Well, this was the only time during the testimony where we see him in pain. Again, it's micro-facial response. When he's listening to his father's voice, he actually brings his head down, he crunches his face together as if he's been struck. As if he's been hit when he hears his father testify.
You can tell in this particular case, again, only time during the testimony he's in great pain.
BURNETT: I wanted to say because that's sort of -- I mean, a layperson, me, sees in this, sort of pain and sadness. A lot of times you watch -- I remember looking at the Casey Anthony, just a lack of response. These faces of people who are in court where there's absolutely no reaction at all.
You see a human being here.
WOOD: Yes. In this case, yes. And note under stress the first response to stress is freezing in place. We call it deer in the headlights for a reason. We freeze to know what to do next. BURNETT: All right. Well, thank you very much, Patti. Appreciate your time.
WOOD: My pleasure.
BURNETT: Well, George Zimmerman as we said got the money for bail. It was $150,000, which means he had to come up with $15,000, and apparently he has. We're going to talk to one of his friends who knows where he got that money.
And thousands protest military rule in Egypt. Egypt is still very much in crisis, significant issue for this country.
We'll be back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BURNETT: We're back with our "Outer Circle" -- where we reach out to our sources around the world on this Friday.
First to Egypt where a familiar scene unfortunately unfolded in Cairo today. Thousands gathering this time to protest against the military rule. It's just a month before the first presidential election since the revolution.
Ian Lee is in Cairo and I asked him what the protesters want this time.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
IAN LEE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Erin, today was an important day in Egypt. The protests in Tahrir Square made for strange bedfellows. This is the first time we've seen the Muslim Brotherhood and liberal groups join forces in the square since the revolution. They directed their anger toward the ruling supreme council of the armed forces
While, there was a common foe, there really wasn't a common theme. Liberals are angry over what they perceive as SCAF's meddling in the writing of the constitution and overall rule. The Muslim Brotherhood and Islamists are angry over the exclusion of their candidates, Khairat al-Shater and Abu Ismail, in next month's presidential election, where political analysts say has now become a true horse race between former secretary general of the Arab League, Amr Moussa, and former member of the Muslim Brotherhood, Abdul Moniem Abul Fotouh, who is perceived as a moderate -- Erin.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: All right. Thanks very much to Ian Lee there in Cairo.
And now, we go to Pakistan. Officials say there are no survivors after a plane crashed today more than 100 people were onboard. It crashed just five miles from the airport in Islamabad. Reza Sayah is there and I asked him why this plane crashed.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) REZA SAYAH, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Erin, aviation officials say severe thunderstorms could have been a factor in this plane going down. But they say they're not going to reach conclusions until they complete their investigation. More than 120 people onboard this Boeing 737. All of them feared dead, the plane taking off from Karachi, crash landing roughly five miles outside of the airport here in Islamabad.
Throughout the night, the grim recovery efforts, the first pictures from the crash site showing mangled and twisted debris, as well as personal belongings like cell phones and passports.
Another twist to the tragedy, this aircraft belonged to Bhoja Airlines, a company that went out of business in 2001. Recently restarted operations, its Web site says its inaugural flight from Karachi to Islamabad would be April 20th. Of course, today is April 20th -- Erin.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: All right.
Well, a judge's decision to let 28-year-old George Zimmerman out of jail until his second-degree murder trial was welcome news to his friends and family, including Frank Taaffe, who told me just before the show what it was like to see Zimmerman for the first time since his arrest. He was there today at the bond hearing.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
FRANK TAAFFE, GEORGE ZIMMERMAN'S NEIGHBOR: George looked pretty tired. He looked like he'd been through a hell of an ordeal. But he looked like he's going to persevere and forge ahead with a positive attitude, to know that he's innocent, just like I know he's innocent. And everything is coming to fruition now. We're having a lot of neighbors come forward with photos and sharing their stories with me as to the proclamation of his innocence.
I sat behind the Martin family today.
BURNETT: Yes.
TAAFFE: I was two rows behind them. I was observing them when George was delivering his sympathy or his condolences to the family. I felt that George was being very sympathetic and he was being very sincere contrary to what the other team wants to believe.
BURNETT: And let me just -- let me just interrupt you there because I want to ask you a question about that. Trayvon Martin's family has said that, you know, George Zimmerman had what? More than 50 days he could have said I am so sorry. I feel -- I am brokenhearted about what happened but he didn't do so. It appears to be, you know, sort of motivated about -- it's all motivated by a desire to be free.
TAAFFE: No, Erin. No, it wasn't contrived. It was sincere. And he stated to the prosecutor as to the reasoning why. And it was because he was told to have no communication with the family. And he abided by the wishes of his past counsel and his present counsel up until today.
And, you know, he emoted his sympathy and condolences in a very sincere and concise manner.
BURNETT: Now, Frank, he's going to be released on $150,000 bond. He has to put $15,000 up for that. Do you have any idea as to whether he'll be able to get that money? From where? Do you have any sense?
TAAFFE: I believe that the moneys have already been collected.
BURNETT: Do you know from whom?
TAAFFE: Well, you know, we have the Web sites that were set up. I personally set one up for him several weeks ago. It was justiceforgeorge.com. And then last week, last Monday when George called me priority his arrest, he started therealgeorgezimmerman.com Web site.
And what we've done so there's no dilution is that I got together with his webmaster, his webmaster and we conjoined both of them together where they're both linked up. And whatever donations that I had collected up to that point were going to be funneled and channeled into his main Web site. So collectively we're continuing the donation process.
As for the exact amount today, I cannot tell you because I relinquished all of my responsibilities in that Web site to George's webmaster.
BURNETT: How much did you have from your justiceforgeorge.com, the site you started when you handed it over?
TAAFFE: It was between $300 and $600 I had taken into account prior to him setting his up. Of course, mine was, you know, bare bones and didn't have the thrust as this new one that George started.
BURNETT: But your understanding is that combining the two from what they've raised, that he would have enough for the bail?
TAAFFE: I would -- this is just me talking.
BURNETT: Right.
TAAFFE: I do believe that they have the moneys collected right now.
BURNETT: And are you concerned for his safety when he goes out on bail? Obviously, I know he's got to check in every few days. His wife had to vouch for him, his parents as well. Do you know where he would go to be safe, or not?
TAAFFE: No. I don't know where he would go to be safe. I know where he won't be and that's Twin Lakes. We can be assured of that. But moreover, not to make folly of the information, on a more serious note -- yes, I am very concerned for his safety. But, you know, we can't live our lives under a rock all the time.
BURNETT: All right. Frank, thanks very much. Good to talk to you, sir.
TAAFFE: Thank you, Erin. Glad to be here.
BURNETT: Let's check in with Anderson Cooper with a look on what's coming up on "A.C. 360" on this Friday.
Hello, Anderson.
ANDERSON COOPER, HOST, "A.C. 360": Hey, Erin. We're keeping them honest tonight on "360".
George Zimmerman apologizing, as you mentioned, to the family of Trayvon Martin in court today for the loss of their son. It was a very dramatic moment that had the prosecution question Zimmerman's timing and motivation. You're going to see and hear the other big moments from the bond hearing and we're going to speak with a legal panel about what many say was a very strong day for the defense.
Mark Geragos joins us for that. We're keeping them honest. We'll also talk to Trayvon Martin's attorney.
Also tonight, Syria. Is this what a cease-fire looks like? This is Homs today. At least 57 people died there today. That's almost 10 times the number of U.N. observers on the ground who are supposedly monitoring the alleged ceasefire. We'll speak with professor Fouad Ajami, recently back from the border of Syria and Turkey.
Those stories, also tonight's "Ridiculist" at the top of the hour ,Erin.
BURNETT: All right. Anderson, looking forward to seeing all of that in just a few moments.
And now, a story. In 1983, Mitt Romney and his family drove 12 hours from Boston to Ontario, Canada, with their dog Seamus in a carrier on top of the car. You've probably heard this story, right? And in the past, this sort of thing would have been a blip on the political radar. But, you know, politics aren't what they used to be. And, you know, gosh, isn't this sad for us looking for the way they've used to be?
This is suddenly become a big issue for this campaign. The Democrats held up the story as an example of just how cold and uncaring Mitt Romney really is.
And so, the Republicans dug up a story in President Obama's own book about the time he ate dog meat as a 6-year-old living in Indonesia.
OK. The press got hold of the two stories and declared the start of the doggy wars. Seriously. Doggy wars -- which led to a group of Democratic senators find out a Romney amendment to a serious pet merchant bill. And Senator John McCain making a joke about the president on Twitter yesterday. He said, I'd never gone on a trip with a dog on my roof and I've never eaten a dog.
But I was a little kid, you know, I used to crawl around on the floor pretended to be a cat. I actually remembered I used to getting all, you know, pat over for meow mix. I bet some of you might admit you did that, too.
But I would hate to think that if I ran for public office, given all of the serious things I would hope we'll be talking about that my experimentation with meow mix which by the way really wasn't bad. And it's strange, actually, I still remember the taste. It would become the issue of the campaign. Seriously.
All right. Still OUTFRONT, I'm going on a trip next week. I'm going to tell you about it.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BURNETT: All right. We're going OUTFRONT to talk to the prime minister of Israel. Please Twitter us. Let me know what you think, questions you want asked. What you want to hear from him. We go OUTFRONT, we'll see you overseas next week.
Anderson starts now.
