Return to Transcripts main page

Erin Burnett Outfront

France's Carte Blanche; Out of Touch; Microsoft Tablet Announced

Aired June 18, 2012 - 19:00   ET


ERIN BURNETT, HOST: OUTFRONT next, where is the next battlefield in Europe? Not in Greece. No, not in Spain. The French elections over the weekend have a whole lot more effect on the American economy.

And Mitt Romney puts his foot in his mouth; President Obama hits the golf course in a sort of similar thing. But they both say they understand the American people. It doesn't add up.

And has the iPad killer finally arrived? A top secret event happening in our hour, let's go OUTFRONT.

And good evening, everyone. I'm Erin Burnett. OUTFRONT tonight, carte blanche. This man smiling with President Obama could save or sink Europe's economy and ours. Francois Hollande has just won free rein to do whatever he wants, while American headlines today went all in on Greece which, when all is said and done, was just another delay of inevitable default. The fate of Europe was decided in Paris.

France is the heart and the wallet of the EU because France isn't Greece, or even Spain. It is the EU. Second only to the almighty Germany in size. If either fall, the EU is done. And that's why the vote in Paris is the story today. Overnight, President Francois Hollande's Socialist Party got a voter mandate, winning an absolute majority in parliament. That's like controlling the House, the Senate and the presidency. And Hollande plans to use it.

He has promised French voters the moon. This really isn't everyone about taking a side on the spending versus austerity as a national policy debate because the reality of it is, is some of Hollande's promises are simply extreme. Like cutting the country's retirement age from 62 back to 60. That ties for the lowest in Europe, even though the French live longer than almost all other Europeans. Things like boosting the minimum wage when it's already an outlier. Right now the French minimum wage is $1,759 a month. That's compared to about 1,160 in the United States and yes everybody, they do work fewer hours in France and the new French president recently said this on TV.



(END VIDEO CLIP) BURNETT: Translation -- I do not like the rich. Hollande campaigned on a 75 percent tax rate on millionaires. Now hey some people might say I want to live in France. You know who wants to be number one? Work fewer hours, get paid more, retire early, that's the way a civilized country should be, maybe so except it doesn't add up. Someone has to pay for it.

The millionaire's tax when you add up all the 2,260 millionaires in France doesn't even put you in the ballpark. And the bean counters see the problem coming like an 18-wheeler. Last week, the credit ratings agency Egan-Jones slashed France's credit rating in large part because, quote, "Hollande will be under pressure to keep campaign promises."

And of course the tea fretting (ph) agency S&P downgraded France back in January. Now it's unclear if Hollande will break his promises. After all, there is plenty of room to still be on the side of spending without being as extreme. Hollande is in a tough spot though of his own making. Frankly it might make his personal life look like a walk in the park. He does have a -- well, to the American eyes a rather stereotypical French lifestyle.

This weekend, his current partner, the TV journalist Valerie Trierweiler lashed out at his former partner and the mother of his four children, Segolene Royal. Royal was running for parliament. Trierweiler tweeted out against her in what French media called a bombshell.

Hey, Hollande may end up thinking his personal menage a trois less stressful than keeping his economic promises. And as for President Obama, he might want to think before he does another smiling photo op with Hollande. His fate and reelection could be in this man's big spending hands. OUTFRONT tonight, a valued member of our "Strike Team", Bill Gross, founder and co-chief investment officer of PIMCO, Bill good to see you. I just was waiting all day to get my lovely menage a trois reference into the program tonight.


BURNETT: You were talking last week about France being where you were really focused as an investor who's looking at Europe and lending money to these governments. Do you think Francois Hollande will keep some of those more extreme promises he's made on cutting the retirement age?

GROSS: Well, I think that was vote-getting. You know you mentioned some of the extreme measures and that's typical of elections, is it not, in the U.S. as well? But you know I think clearly, Erin, this was an anti-austerity vote in France and it elevates the socialist pro-growth, higher deficit agenda as a model for Euro land. I mean Angela Merkel has been snubbed by the French by this election, which I suppose won't be the first or last time. But it's going to have consequences for Euro land fiscal policy for the foreseeable future and Hollande now begins to offer a different way forward in his terms and we're going to see what that agenda is. BURNETT: And you've talked about being worried about France and its fiscal balance. I know it's one of the few countries in Europe where you do have money. I mean you do have money still in France, right?

GROSS: Yes, we still have investments in France; typically they're 10-year yields or about 2.5 percent. They're not what they are in Italy, which are 5.5 percent or in Spain, which are 7.5 percent. But they're at 2.5 percent. And they could go either way, depending upon whether or not this growth agenda you know is successful.

BURNETT: But it's people like you and your investors -- you know a lot of Americans, we always talk about it -- I mean have money with PIMCO. You're going to make a decision on whether you are going to pay for some of Francois Hollande's promises. So what's your verdict? If you really see him going in the direction of a few of the things we said, the retirement age, the minimum wage, tax rates of 75 percent, would that be something that -- you know forget your own politics -- as an investor you'd put money in?

GROSS: I think those are extreme. I think what he's trying to do is favor labor as opposed to capital. Remember the (INAUDIBLE) and you know he's moving in that direction. To the extent that he moves only gradually, I think that's a positive. What France needs, what Euro land needs is growth. And to the extent that they can prevent a continuing recession, then the growth is going to be positive. But you know radical steps probably won't move in that direction. It will take too much towards labor and so moderation is the way forward for France and other countries, I believe.

BURNETT: Bill, if Hollande does go you know full-out, goes for his agenda and everything he promised, what's the risk to the United States? I mean if it becomes clear he's doing that, a break-up of the EU, not speculation about, oh, little Greece, will it cause it to break apart? But a break-up at the heart of Europe.

GROSS: Well I think the example, Erin, is in terms of the results. What we've seen in the UK for the past two years with Cameron is a very austered budget; the UK is in recession and moving perhaps in the opposite direction at the moment in terms of more fiscal spending. You know this is an experiment in France. Can they take Germany with them? Can they, in a sense, develop a new model for Euro land? We're going to see what you know investors want, what the U.S. you know desires in terms of a balance is a growth agenda that will permit investment that will permit you know capitalists to continue on in terms of their investment in France, such as PIMCO. And so we're just going to have to see. It's not a grand experiment. But it's certainly an experiment that's different from what we've seen over the past two years.

BURNETT: All right, well thanks very much to Bill Gross. I think we have to assume some of those promises may not be kept. But wow, if they are everyone things could -- things could really change coming into our election if Europe falling apart.

Well still OUTFRONT who's more out of touch with the American people, the guy who loves to golf or the guy who's never been to Wawa.

And the military in Egypt told (INAUDIBLE) despite this weekend's elections did you know that Egypt is the third biggest recipient of American aid, billions of dollars a year. Is it time for our country to put its money where its mouth is?

And new audio released from George Zimmerman's jailhouse calls tonight, we're going to play the conversation that some say he was having in code with his wife.


BURNETT: Our second story OUTFRONT something Mitt Romney said today in Pennsylvania caught our attention.


MITT ROMNEY (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Where do you get your hoagies here? Do you get them at Wa-Wa's (ph)? I went to a place today called Wa-Wa's (ph). Have you ever been to Wa-Wa's (ph), anybody been there? I was at Wa-Wa's (ph). I wanted to order a sandwich. You press the little touchtone keypad, all right, you just touch that and you don't, the sandwich comes (INAUDIBLE). You press this, touch this, touch this, go pay the cashier, there's your sandwich. It's amazing.


BURNETT: It is amazing, by the way. Anybody who lives in the mid-Atlantic knows that Wawa is amazing. It is called Wawa, not the Wa-Wa's (ph). Now look he's a Massachusetts guy. They don't have Wawa up there. It's a sad thing for them. But critics were quick to say it shows Romney is out of touch. But let's be honest. Romney and the president have both proven they are far from average Joes.


BARACK OBAMA (D-IL), PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The private sector is doing fine.

ROMNEY: Rick, I'll till you what, 10,000 bucks, $10,000 bet?

OBAMA: They get bitter and they cling to guns or religion or antipathy towards people who aren't like them.

ROMNEY: I drive a Mustang and a Chevy pickup truck. Ann drives a couple of Cadillacs.


BURNETT: And of course you know about the last election, remember that was that famous arugula salad at Whole Foods that President Obama enjoyed eating. John Avlon, Reihan Salam and Roland Martin are with me now.

Yes, I like looking at Reihan and Roland both with this look on their face like (INAUDIBLE). All right, Reihan, you're sitting next to me, so take it away. I've got to say, I mean I feel bad for the guy that he's deprived of a Wawa, singular. But I mean you know Wa- Wa's (ph)?

REIHAN SALAM, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Well, one thing about that video that's worth mentioning is that if you look at the unedited version of the video, what he is describing as amazing is not Wa-Wa's (ph), the fictional store that as we both know doesn't exist, but rather he's talking about private sector streamlining. That's the thing that's really amazing, so it's not actually this --

BURNETT: OK but that has been in Wawa for a while.


BURNETT: I mean --


BURNETT: I am a Wawa lover.

SALAM: Well, but he's talking about --


SALAM: -- the private sector.

ROLAND MARTIN, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: What the hell is a Wawa?

BURNETT: What do you mean? Roland, wait a minute --


MARTIN: I'm from Texas. What is a Wawa? Is that what a baby does when they're crying? Excuse me if I'm not feeling the Wawa.


BURNETT: All right. I'm going to preface this with you didn't know so that you (INAUDIBLE) but I believe it's a Native American term for some sort of a bird I think.



MARTIN: Have you ever heard of a Pompano's (ph)? We love them in Texas and Louisiana. OK, got you.

BURNETT: So, you're -- all right, so you're --


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So you're defending Mitt Romney.

(CROSSTALK) UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You're defending him.

MARTIN: No, what I'm saying is OK the dude is not from there. I got it. But here's the other deal. Fine, who's a regular person? President Obama, he lives in public housing. He rides public transportation, maybe he gets it. We go through this all of the time about being who's a regular person. Guess what? Both of these guys have got money. It's not like they're hanging out riding the metro, the subway or a bus every day. Of course they're not regular. I don't want a regular president.

JOHN AVLON, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Well, you know look --

BURNETT: Well, there's something to be said for that, right John --


AVLON: Look, I mean Roland's right to the extent that this is something that gets trot out every campaign cycle, the president's out of touch. When you live in the bubble of the presidency, of course the fact that you're --

BURNETT: Remember there was the Google.

AVLON: You're going to do the Google. You're going to, you know, and this cycle is complicated by the fact --


AVLON: -- that you've got a candidate running against the president who has a horse in the Olympics now in dressage. I mean it's an exaggerated version of an out-of-touch thing as well. But look these are gaffes on the campaign trail. This is something that goes back to George H.W. Bush with a scanner at the grocery store. It is -- these are innocent mistakes. But the real question is folks feeling they can relate to them. And that's what this all becomes is proxy war for. Are they authentic? Can they relate to me? Do they seem like real guys, the old beer (ph) test?

SALAM: I'll defend -- I'll defend the premise of politicians being out of touch in this broader way. But I'll say it a little bit differently. It's not so much about Romney or Obama. Whenever you get elected -- whenever you become president, you see a lot of folks abandon positions they'd held before, partly because you're surrounded by the national security state. You have a totally different idea regarding what is and is not appropriate --


SALAM: Think about the security that you're surrounded by constantly. You don't really have the ability to go out of it and to relate to people.

BURNETT: You don't (INAUDIBLE) the ability to just zip into Wawa in your pajamas on a Saturday morning -- (CROSSTALK)



MARTIN: That's what I'm saying.


MARTIN: Look, we could get so excited about this. Bottom line is we do not have regular candidates. They are not regular. Just like -- look it drives me crazy in the Beltway when everything is about if you didn't go to Harvard or Yale, somehow you didn't go to a top-quality school. All that plays into this whole nonsense. All I'm saying is fine, do this, Mitt Romney, get you some campaign staffers who know about the local joint. Give them you know an FAQ (ph), write it all down so you don't say, oh you can press a button and get a sandwich (INAUDIBLE) who they are, OK, who they are. Look, his wife said today we're not going to take foreign trips because we got a bunch -- we have several houses here, we can live there. That's not regular, having several houses. But it is what it is.

BURNETT: Right. That reminds me of John McCain's irregular moment with not knowing how many houses he had I believe --


MARTIN: Still kind of bad, not knowing how many cribs you have.

AVLON: And John Kerry who is going to be playing Romney in the debates came out today, he'll be standing in for Mitt Romney in Obama's debate --

BURNETT: Well he's a regular guy.

AVLON: Exactly. You know look we don't -- right now part of our politics is, is that we've got a bunch of really wealthy guys in the Senate, many of whom run for president. President Obama actually being a notable exception to that rule, someone who's become very successful but certainly you know did not start out on third base. But, look, you know the whole process of running for president is insulated. Most folks don't wake up with a security detail. So right from the get-go, you're starting off in a strange place.


SALAM: That's actually the fundamental reason why there are a lot of folks who believe that we want these unusual people to have less control and authority over our lives, right.


SALAM: I mean that's the kind of core (ph) of the idea because there's no way that you from Washington, D.C. no matter how noble or well-intentioned you are, can really understand the texture of life for people --


SALAM: -- who are in very different places.


SALAM: You're the president of a sprawling country of over 300 million people. You can't understand your Wawa from your Pompano's (ph) and if you can't even understand that --

MARTIN: Hey man it's called Papa Doe's (ph).

SALAM: -- how can you understand (INAUDIBLE) level?

BURNETT: Papa Doe's (ph) --


SALAM: There is also Papa Knows (ph) which is actually a secret establishment all over Texas that you might not know of.


MARTIN: You're right. I don't know Papa Knows (ph).

SALAM: You might have that Texas flavor all over.



AVLON: -- articulate it that way sounds really -- you've got the twang, no question about it.


SALAM: Working on it all day.


MARTIN: Wa, wa, wa, wa, wa (ph).


SALAM: Wa-Wa's (ph), Wa-Wa's (ph).


BURNETT: Oh, thanks to all of you. Hey look, we all agreed. Don't really, you know you want to have special -- exceptional people run for president, people who champion the best or what we can become, not people who champion something else --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Special is the right word.


BURNETT: I don't -- I hope you all heard Reihan. Still OUTFRONT the iPad has ruled the tablet world, but is an announcement tonight about to change that?

And a new heir apparent to the throne of Saudi Arabia that could destabilize one of the most powerful and influential countries in the world, the number one oil country on earth.


BURNETT: Mystery solved. Microsoft announcing literally just moments ago a tablet to compete with Apple called The Surface, so that's the name of the new tablet, it's called The Surface, like the surface of a table. Microsoft which is sort of the khaki pants of the tech world has had geeks the world over foaming at the retainer today after issuing an exclusive invitation to Hollywood's Milk Studios (ph). They said show up here.

Literally they didn't even tell them until this morning where to go, such a super secret product announcement. The mysterious event is getting under way at this very moment and it could be the first step in the company's attempt to transform from geek to chic. A la (ph) Ronald Miller (INAUDIBLE) chick flick "Can't Buy Me Love". The big question remains though will tonight's unveiling actually be enough to kill the iPad, which brings me to tonight's number, three million.

That's how many iPads Apple sold in the first three days after its launch which you may be shocked to hear was only in 2010. Can you imagine it was 2010? Two years ago. I mean the entire world has changed. Two years ago. Since then, rivals have released dozens of alternatives to try to catch Apple. No one has even come close. Microsoft, in fact, has been chasing the tablet dream for 12 years now.

Some people say it really was Bill Gates and Microsoft that came up with the whole idea of a tablet but of course Apple actually got the execution right. So will Microsoft finally deliver with "The Surface"? Tweet us, let us know. Will you try "The Surface" over an iPad? We really do want to know. This could be a game changer.

And OUTFRONT next, the U.S. gives billions in aid to Egypt every single year. But is that money being used to buy weapons to keep the people down?

And Jerry Sandusky under went psychological evaluation. Does he have histrionic personality disorder? Does that give him a defense? We have the answer.


BURNETT: Welcome back to the second half of OUTFRONT. We start with stories we care about where we focus on our own reporting from the front lines. Well first, former baseball star Roger Clemens found not guilty of lying to Congress about steroid use. An emotional Clemens wiped his eyes after a federal jury found him not guilty of all six counts in the case. The case centered around his 2008 testimony before a House committee where he said he had never used steroids or human growth hormone during his career. If Clemens had been convicted, the 49-year-old would have faced up to 10 years in prison.

Well Luka Magnotta, the man charged with a gruesome murder and dismemberment has been extradited to Canada. The 29-year-old had been in German custody after authorities found him in an Internet cafe in Berlin two weeks ago. Authorities say Magnotta videotaped himself just killing and dismembering a Chinese student. The victim's hands and feet were mailed to politicians and schools. Magnotta just arrived in Montreal and we are told he will appear in court tomorrow.

Well, meantime, the first day of talks over Iran's nuclear ambitions ended in Moscow. An Iranian called them constructive. The talks continue tomorrow but they could be the last time world powers meet with Iran before the new heart-hitting sanctions take effect at the end of the month.

World powers demand Iran stop enriching uranium to 20 percent. That obviously is closer to the 90 percent needed for a nuclear weapon.

At the G20 summit today, President Obama said there is still time for a diplomatic resolution, flying in the face of the Israeli President Simon Peres. He disagrees, telling CNN today, the time is running out for a diplomatic solution.

And Saudi Arabia has appointed Prince Salman as crown prince and heir parent to King Abdullah. Prince Salman is 76 years old. He replaces Crown Prince Nayef, the second crown prince to die in the past eight month. Abdullah is ill and he's thought to be 88 years old.

I wanted to emphasize the word "thought to be" because nobody knows the exact age of any of the current ruling generation. I've heard he could be over 90.

They are the sons of the first rulers of Saudi Arabia. There is no history here. There is no succession plan for the next generation. And that's a problem because the next generation comprises 7,000 princes. That would be a real civil war.

Obviously, people expect it will be peaceful. But the question is, will a religious hard-liner get power? Will the world's number one oil supplier remain stable?

I've asked leaders in other Middle Eastern countries and they don't know. It's an incredible vacuum and it will be the most important question facing the U.S. and the Middle East. In addition to controlling the oil markets, Saudi is the number one buyer of American weapons on Earth.

It has been 319 days since America lost its top credit rating. What are we doing to get it back? A new report out today shows the housing market is actually making a comeback. Sentiment from homebuilders was up in June to its highest level in five years. Now, it did vary across the country. But the most gains were in the West and the Midwest.

And now, our third story OUTFRONT: the Pentagon spoke out today on the chaos in Cairo. Spokesman George Little expressed deep concern and said Egypt's military should hand over full power to what he called a democratically elected civilian government.

The military meantime ignored it, tightening its grip on power today, announcing that it and not the president will decide if the country goes to war and that it and not the president will decide the military's budget. The military will name a group to write a new constitution. The office of president won't mean much in Egypt.

This comes as the Muslim Brotherhood candidate seems to have won the presidential vote this weekend, although the military candidate has not conceded.

The U.S. has a very big choice to make. Sure, America prefers the military in Egypt to the Muslim Brotherhood, just like for decades, the United States preferred Mubarak to democracy. That's just a fact.

But things are different now, and the U.S. has championed Egypt and its push for democracy. So, the U.S. must decide whether to put its money where its mouth is.

We give Egypt $2 billion a year in aid, two-thirds of that to the military, for a total of $43 billion in guns and tanks to Egypt in the past three decades. So, do we stop funding Egypt's military?

Jane Harman served nine terms in Congress. She was the chair of the House Subcommittee on Intelligence. She was also an election monitor on Egyptian during the first round of voting earlier this year. And she joins us now.

And, Jane, it's very good to see you.


BURNETT: What should the U.S. do? I mean, this seems to be a real moment of choice for the United States.

HARMAN: I agree. It's also a moment of choice for Egypt. I would say step one, take a deep breath and let these events unfold. First, let's find out who won the election. We're supposed to know that by Thursday. The Muslim Brotherhood candidate appears to have a lead. But let's let that play out.

I am, I have to say, stunned by these developments in the last several weeks since I was in Egypt and met with SCAF and other officials while I participated, observed the first presidential primary, I guess you could call it. BURNETT: And it seems, though, Jane, if we give a little bit of time, there is -- it is just a moment of choice, because obviously for so long, Egypt was not a democracy, it was a dictatorship. And the United States supported that dictator for a long time. It was in at least Congress after Congress, president after president, determined the United States' national interest was best to do so. To go now for the democratically-elected candidate, if indeed it is, a more radical Muslim Brotherhood candidate, sort of goes against U.S. interest but it might be the right thing to do.

HARMAN: Well, the U.S. position, it was announced while I was in Egypt a few weeks ago, is to recognize the winner of a fair and democratic election. I think that our government will do that.

How much power that person will have, at least at the moment, is totally unclear.

BURNETT: Jane, I'll never forget being there during the first -- coming to Tahrir Square, the beginnings of the revolution and how amazing it was. There was a moment of an 18-month-old girl and the soldiers -- who was coming with her parents to Tahrir Square -- the soldiers picked her up and put her on the tank for some pictures. And it showed at that time the military and the people -- the military supported the people.

But given how things are now, if the people vote for something else and the military doesn't move, the United States has this lever. We can say, look, these F-14s, these F-4s, these tanks, all of this stuff we've sent you, no. And if we say no, can't we force them to respect what the people said?

HARMAN: Well, we have some leverage. We haven't transferred the -- all of the $1.3 billion in military aid which the secretary of state has agreed to transfer this year. The way it worked this year was Congress passed an aid package with conditions.

BURNETT: One thing that stood out to me was a textbook approved by one of the men running, the former prime minister who now was running for president, on the military side -- textbook for current eighth-graders in Cairo said treason and treachery are key attributes of Jewish people. That's the current eight grade textbook in Egypt.

And then a top cleric speaking for the Muslim Brotherhood candidate introducing him had this to say about Jews --


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Our capital shall not be Cairo, Mecca, or Medina. It shall be Jerusalem, Allan willing. Our cry shall be: millions of martyrs march toward Jerusalem. Millions of martyrs march toward Jerusalem. Banish the sleep from the eyes of all Jews. Come on, you lovers of martyrdom, you are all Hamas.


HARMAN: Let's understand that election rhetoric is often heated and things have been said in this interminable election that I find enormously objectionable. I find those comments awful. But the textbooks and a lot of the television programs in Egypt have been objectionable for a long time, surely under the Mubarak administration. And one of the ways forward that would make the biggest difference in Egypt, both for the empowerment of girls and women and for the enlightenment of the civilization, would be to help support good schools that teach objective information to school kids.

And by the way, part of the U.S. aid package is not military. There's $250 million in civilian aid, which I would hope would go for a new textbook in Egypt's schools.

BURNETT: And now our fourth story OUTFRONT: a day after former Penn State football coach Jerry Sandusky was examined by the prosecution's psychologist, we're learning the defense will call a witness to testify that Sandusky suffers from, quote, "histrionic personality disorder," HPD.

The symptoms include acting or looking overly seductive, constantly seeking reassurance or approval, needing to be the center of attention, and believing that relationships are more intimate than they actually are.

So how will this play out in Sandusky's child sex abuse trial?

Dr. Michael Welner is a forensic psychiatrist and Paul Callan obviously is our legal contributor.

Good to have both of you.

Dr. Welner, first of all, we just went through the basic definition of histrionic personality disorder. This is something that -- I'd never heard of it before this case. But how common is it?

DR. MICHAEL WELNER, FORENSIC PSYCHIATRIST: Well, it's a condition that's diagnosed perhaps to 2 percent to 3 percent of the population. But the important point is the reason that it's diagnosed and estimated to be so low is the kinds of condition that cause someone to present to a psychologist. People don't present to a psychologist or a psychiatrist who have a history of pedophilia and sexual assault, and the problem is discovered to be histrionic personality disorder.

The reason this is incompatible with the Sandusky scenario is you put the graphic up about attention-seeking, it's a condition of shallow relationships. This is a person whose legacy is defined by the substance of his relationships, not their shallowness -- his substance as a coach, his substance as a father, his substance in a successful marriage, his substance leading a charity. It is incompatible with the shallowness of relationships of histrionic personality disorder.

Again, he's on trial for sexually assaulting in private, not for an attention-seeking sexual assault. So, his alleged crimes are all about what he has been doing privately, secretly, away from view, not calling attention to his sexual deviance. So, his life and history is incompatible with the diagnosis that's a bit of window dressing on love and romance to divert attention away from grooming behavior and how he relates to children to control them.

BURNETT: So, Paul Callan, you were saying, this is not -- it's not standard in Pennsylvania to allow this sort of testimony at all in a sex abuse case. But given what Dr. Welner is saying, you were skeptical of this defense to begin with. Are you more so now?

PAUL CALLAN, CNN LEGAL CONTRIBUTOR: I'm totally skeptical of it. This defense is so idiotic, I think the prosecutor thought of it because in Pennsylvania, you're not allowed to call a psychiatrist if you're a prosecutor to prove somebody is a child abuser. They, the defense, now put a psychiatrist on the stand that gives the prosecutor now the right to call a psychiatrist to examine Sandusky and say, he doesn't have HPD. He's a classic pedophile. This is classic grooming behavior.

So it's really shocking that they would even consider this level of risk and to open the door to this possible testimony.

BURNETT: Did you think, Paul, that the defense obviously started today. We've been told the jury is going to have this case by the end of the week. So, I have two questions in that. First of all, what did you think about how the defense did today?

CALLAN: Well, it was just sort of not much of a defense. I mean, they put a bunch of character witnesses on the stand who said basically, I know Jerry, he's a really nice guy. He has a good reputation in the community.

They were on and off the stand, most of them, in under 10 minutes. None of them -- a couple of them said, by the way, which I found to be interesting, that they were coaches or former coaches and that they had showered with little boys. However --


CALLAN: Yes, they actually said that. That they had had showers with little boys but said they never touched or hugged the little boys as Sandusky is alleged to have done.

BURNETT: Little boys like 3-year-old boys like your own child? That would be more normal --

CALLAN: I mean little boys playing sports.

BURNETT: Teenage boys?

CALLAN: Teenage boys, adolescent boys.

BURNETT: What planet is that normal? I don't understand.

WELNER: He's alleged to have done a lot more, and I think that's the point. Sex offenders engage in what's known as cognitive distortion, rationalize, intellectualize, justify, yes, sure, this is what we athletes do. If you can normalize something for public consumption, you speak to the natural human tendency to say, this man is an icon, I don't want to believe he could be this monstrous.

And that's what prosecutors, notwithstanding the strength of their case, have to confront. We don't want to believe that anyone could be this monstrous. And he's not only an icon, but he's an icon that everybody in that community gave a pass to.


CALLAN: If you're going to call a character witness, he's been with hundreds of kids in this Second Mile program. What I was struck by is why don't we see any grown-up kids coming forward saying, you know, he was my coach, he was a wonderful guy, I never had a problem with him --

BURNETT: None of those people are coming forward.

CALLAN: No, none of them took the stand. We only heard about these scattered people who said, Jerry's a great guy and by the way, once in a while, I shower with little boys myself.

BURNETT: I think that's the most bizarre thing I've heard. I mean, I have to go out there -- mentioned being to shower with teenage boys --

CALLAN: Anything can happen in a courtroom. But I'll tell you, this has been one strange defense, Erin, one very strange defense.

BURNETT: All right. Thanks very much to both of you. We'll see whether that histrionic personality disorder plays a role and, of course, whether Jerry Sandusky takes the stand. Again, as I said, the judge told the jury they should get this case by the end of the week.

And OUTFRONT next: the woman prosecuting George Zimmerman has a history of using evidence from jailhouse sources. So, will the calls made to Zimmerman's wife affect the case? We're going to play them for you.

And Roger Clemens found not guilty in the perjury trial. So, why did sports fans lose today? Coming up.


BURNETT: We're back with tonight's "Outer Circle" -- where we reach out to our sources around the world.

And we begin in Mexico where President Obama met with Russia's President Putin today on the sidelines of the G20 summit. It's actually their first meeting since Putin took office last month. This meeting comes as the U.S. and Russia are at odds over Syria. The U.S. has accused Russia of shipping weapons to the Syrian government.

Dan Lothian is at the G20 and I asked him if today's meeting helped at all in bridging the gap between the two men.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) DAN LOTHIAN, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Erin, President Obama and President Putin met for about two hours. President Obama saying it was a candid, thoughtful and thorough conversation.

But perhaps the best indication of how that meeting went, body language. Take a look at the videotape. Both of the leaders did not sit very close together, President Obama leaning over to President Putin, Putin appearing to lean away. No smiles.

At the very end of their remarks, they had a quick handshake, a half smile from Putin and a quick pat on the shoulder from President Obama.

Now, the two leaders did talk about there needing to be an end to the violence in Syria in order to prevent a civil war and that there needs to be a political solution. But no details on what that political solution will look like -- Erin.


BURNETT: All right. Thanks to Dan.

And now, let's check in with Anderson with a look at what's coming up on "A.C. 360" -- Anderson.

ANDERSON COOPER, HOST, "A.C. 360": Hey, Erin. We're keeping them honest tonight on the program.

The Latino vote could decide this election. Mitt Romney says the Democrats are pandering to get their votes but Romney won't answer the tough questions about his tough immigration policy now. We'll talk about that with Ari Fleischer and Maria Cardona.

Also, fighting the wildfires and the weather in Colorado. Look at these pictures. Nightmare conditions. You have high temperatures, low humidity, bad winds for more than 1,700 firefighters battling the blaze right now around the clock. We'll have the latest from the frontlines. We'll tell you where the blaze is headed and how emergency personnel hope to try to get a handle on it.

Also breaking news tonight, a tearful Roger Clemens after the baseball legend was found not guilty on all counts against him. CNN's legal analyst Jeffrey Toobin joins us to explain the ruling.

Those stories and the latest on the Sandusky trial, the defense has begun their case, also the "Ridiculist" at the top of the hour -- Erin.

BURNETT: All right. Thanks very much, Anderson. See you in a few.

And now our fifth story OUTFRONT: could George Zimmerman's loose lips in jail end up dooming his defense? Prosecutors say that newly released jailhouse calls between Zimmerman and his wife show the couple speaking in code, about plans to move tens of thousands of dollars between bank accounts.


GEORGE ZIMMERMAN: Call him and make sure that he does it every day. And that you transfer from mine to yours every day.

SHELLIE ZIMMERMAN: Transfer from mine to yours every day and set an alarm on my phone to remind me, within 24 hours. OK.


BURNETT: The state says those calls prove Zimmerman lied about previous claims that he was too broke to post bond. Zimmerman faces second degree murder charges in the shooting death of teenager Trayvon Martin.

OUTFRONT tonight: criminal defense attorney Janet Johnson and our legal analyst Marki NeJame.

Great to have both of you with us.

Janet, let me just ask, I know you know Angela Corey, the prosecutor here. And I know that she has a real record in not just these phone conversations that Zimmerman may have had, but other conversations he could be having in passing in jail with other inmates and bringing that into the courtroom.

Do you think she's going to be able to get all this into court?

JANET JOHNSON, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, even on the tape, we heard Mr. Zimmerman talking about conversations he's having with other inmates. We know he's pretty chatty, even though he's warned to make any statements on this recording. He's talking quite a bit. And that office who I practice for 18 years have a knack for getting jailhouse snitches.

If he made any statements to anywhere else in that jail they're going to want to jump on that case. And right now, he's sitting in jail probably talking to inmates, who are going to flip and testify against him. I would bet on that.

BURNETT: Wow, all right. So, Mark, is it possible, in the audio we just heard where George Zimmerman is talking obviously what appears to be in pretty bad code frankly, assuming that he's talking about what we think he is which is transferring money regularly into another account. Would he know that that was illegal, tampering?

MARK NEJAME, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Well, I agree with you. I think my 4-year-old and 6-year-old daughters speak in more sophisticated code than that. But the reality of it is that you have an issue about whether he knew that she was going to take the stand.

Remember the time line on this. We have those previous lawyers of Zimmerman who got off the case. O'Mara got on the case, apparently only met Zimmerman that morning or the night before. And then they were in court. So it wasn't even certain that she was going to be called as a witness.

So to suggest she was a witness at the time before there was a hearing or she was even designated as a witness is going to be a hard road for the prosecution to prove that he was doing any witness tampering. I do think that she's got a whole -- go ahead.

JOHNSON: Mark, I don't agree with that because I think witness tampering, all he has to do is engage in misleading conduct that is going to get somebody to potentially testify to something that is not true or to withhold information. I think she can -- I certainly think Angela will try to prove that. I think that that's probable cause.

NEJAME: Trying and doing are two entirely different things. The fact is that she's got a situation where they don't know that she was going to be called as a witness. And you've got all this money that was clearly moving back and forth. Everybody keeps forgetting, Zimmerman has a Fifth Amendment right. He did not have a legal obligation to say anything. He did not -- he was not the one that misled the court.

Now, he should have said something to his lawyer earlier. And when his lawyer found out about it, he brought it right before the court as he was ethically and properly bound to do. But Zimmerman had no requirement under the Fifth Amendment to say anything when somebody else was saying something during that hearing. People seem to forget that part of it.

BURNETT: One other quick thing before we go. I just want to play another conversation. George Zimmerman talking about a car picking him up from jail once he got bail. Here he is.


SHELLIE ZIMMERMAN: If the one we're going to drive in and then get the SUV, I don't know if they black out SUVs though --


SHELLIE ZIMMERMAN: Oh, OK. Because you could always lay down or something.

GEORGE ZIMMERMAN: Yes, exactly. Well, I have my hoodie.



BURNETT: I would say, Janet, it's unclear whether he was making some sort of hoodie joke about Trayvon or not.

JOHNSON: I think it's clear. I think Mrs. Zimmerman may be savvier and she tried to deflect it. But that was clearly a tasteless joke where he's -- you don't use the word hoodie by mistake. I think that was clear.

BURNETT: All right. Well, thank you very much to both of you. We appreciate it.

And OUTFRONT next, a verdict in the Roger Clemens perjury case. And it's actually a verdict on us. People who watch for it, the E- block, next.


BURNETT: Late today, Roger Clemens was found not guilty of lying to Congress during an investigation of steroid use during his nearly three decade career. The trial went on for 10 weeks at a cost of about $3 million to American taxpayers. That's right, we paid for it.

The track record on these high-profile cases is expensive ones. And verdicts that are overwhelmingly not guilty.

Take Lance Armstrong. The U.S. Anti-Doping Agency is now accusing him of doping, after the DOJ dropped a two-year criminal investigation and didn't even file charges. That cost us money.

The reality is actually pretty uncomfortable here. Supplement use, legal and otherwise, plague some professional sports. Hey, even horses dope. The latest way we found out is actually called milk shaking. As the trainer of the second to last Triple Crown winner told me, horses now are bred so much for speed that they're fragile. Allegations for doping for speed have tainted the industry. And what have they gotten for it?

Public hasn't gotten much. We haven't had a horse win the Triple Crown since 1978, before doping became as common a charge as it is today. And as for human sport stars, they dope because we, the people, for the most part, look the other way.

We want big hits in football, big sluggers in baseball, the biggest and best get paid the most. The problem is human beings can't do what fans want. It seems that only doped up human beings can deliver.

So until there's a zero tolerance policy in sports, we're always going to have players that try their luck. Some get away with it and get bigger and faster and stronger. And then that pressures others to compete and so more people cheat. It's a terrible and vicious cycle. But the blame is on fans as much as on athletes.

Thanks so much as always for watching. See you back here tomorrow.

"ANDERSON COOPER 360" starts right now.