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Erin Burnett Outfront
Budget Drifter Walks Alone; Papal Conclave Under Way; Interview with Rep. Peter King; From Pro Soccer to the Priesthood
Aired March 12, 2013 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ERIN BURNETT, CNN ANCHOR: OUTFRONT next, another battle between the president and Republicans, and this one part "Waynes World," part White Snake.
The conclave has begun. We are looking for the smoke signals. Yes, that's no joke. We are still looking at smoke as to who will be next pope.
And the man accused of murdering 12 people in a Colorado theatre was expected to plead insanity today. He showed up at court and we saw him for the first time in months. Let's go OUTFRONT.
Good evening, everyone. I'm Erin Burnett. OUTFRONT tonight, the budget drifter walks alone. During the presidential campaign, you know, we learned quite a bit about Republican vice presidential nominee, Paul Ryan's musical tastes.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REPRESENTATIVE PAUL RYAN (R), HOUSE BUDGET COMMITTEE CHAIRMAN: My play list starts with AC DC ends with Zeppelin.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Well, today we learned a little bit more about what falls in between, "w," as in White Snake.
He was walking alone again without any support from across the aisle for his budget proposal. When he introduced his latest economic blueprint, it sounded awfully familiar.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RYAN: We need to repeal and replace Obamacare with a better system, with a patient centered system.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: So now let's step into our time machine and head all the way back to March 20th, 2012. With apologies to Mike Myers --
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RYAN: We propose that we repeal the president's disastrous health care law.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: All right, so Paul Ryan walked the only road he's ever known, while the president is at least reaching out to his Republican foes with some very nice dinners and fancy wines.
Ryan's fellow Republican Congressman Peter King of New York, he serves on the House Financial Services Committee. Good to see you, sir.
REPRESENTATIVE PETER KING (R), NEW YORK: Erin, how are you?
BURNETT: President Obama obviously has been making a bit of an effort. Is Paul Ryan doing the same?
KING: Surely he is. I think first of all, putting a budget out there. Republicans have their marker there. The president is coming to meet with us tomorrow and I'm hopeful. This is not going to change overnight, but I think we can have a constructive dialogue and debate.
Hopefully the Democrats come out with their budget. The Senate Democrats will come up with their budget. The president will come out with his and all that has to be very positive. But especially the president coming tomorrow can be -- it can signal a new relationship.
Now there's more to politics, there's more to government than people disliking each other and getting together, but it is a good first step. To me, I'm satisfied the president is coming and I think he can be very helpful.
BURNETT: All right, so Paul Ryan -- I want to get to the bottom of this. He says he'll support $4.6 trillion in spending cuts the next ten years. But when I get to what he's going to do, I get a little confused. He's going to cut taxes for everyone and get two tax brackets above 10 and 25 percent. Those are his goals.
Then Medicare is going to change, going to become government subsidize private health care plan for people under 55. And it eliminates the federal Medicaid program and the states get lump sum grants. If you're cutting taxes by that much, it sounds like -- well, it sounds like you're cutting those other things dramatically, too.
KING: Well, again, Paul lays it out in there. To me, this is a very good blueprint to go forward on. I also support tax cuts. I do think that ultimately, tax cuts do generate more revenue. I come from the Jack Kemp School of the Republican Party, which does believe in tax cuts.
But again, this is our plan on the table. The president should come forward with his and we'll go forward from there. This is what this is about. This isn't divided government and if Paul realizes that, the Republican leadership realizes that, we're going with what we feel is our best case.
And he's asking the president to come forward with his. The fact that he's coming in tomorrow, we can go over some of those issues with him and it will be a good first step.
BURNETT: So he's coming in. You know, what's kind of amazing about that, some of your fellow Republicans just like you have said he's doing a good job. John McCain had dinner with the president, called his comments sincere. Lindsey graham was at the dinner, too, called it serious.
I want to play for you now what Senator Tom Coburn said about the president on Sunday on "Meet the Press."
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SENATOR TOM COBURN (R), OKLAHOMA: He is moving in the right direction. I'm proud of him for doing it and I think it's a great thing.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Now that's a Republican coming out and supporting the president. I mean, this sounds like it's more than just rhetoric. It's more than just a visit. I mean, do you agree that this is a significant move and outreach by the president?
KING: It is especially since he has not really reached out that much over the last several years. I'm not trying to condemn him here. This is a dramatic change by the president meeting with all the Republicans. I think the last time he did this was in 2009 when he was first elected, that first week or two that he was in office.
So I think it's significant. And it's not the be all and end all, but it's a positive step and he is the president of the United States. He's entitled to respect, entitled to presume that he's being sincere. He's entitled to that. I think it can be a good start.
Republicans want to show that we can govern in the Congress and get things done. And you have Paul Ryan's budget, you have the president's. So I'm much more optimistic than I was a month or so ago, having said that, it's still a long way to go. I've been in politics for a long time.
BURNETT: All right, but then this gets me to a poor part of Paul Ryan's budget, which doesn't seem to be even remotely close to compromise, that is that Obamacare is going to get repealed. Even Chris Wallace on Fox News was a little bit shocked by that. Here's the exchange on that.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHRIS WALLACE, FOX NEWS: Are you saying that as part of your budget, you would assume the repeal of Obamacare?
RYAN: Yes.
WALLACE: Well, that's not going to happen.
(END VIDEO CLIP) BURNETT: All right, he said it pretty firmly. That is the truth, Congressman. It's not going to happen.
KING: Well, the fact is -- it is opposition Obamacare, should be repealed. The president obviously wants Obamacare retained in total. When you get to the total, that's what negotiations are all about.
BURNETT: All right, but let me ask you this because this is interesting. Eight Republican governors have stopped fighting Obamacare altogether. They've accepted the president's Medicaid extension among them, New Jersey Governor Chris Christie, which is currently the frontrunner for the 2016 nomination, and Chris Christie spoke about this decision recently. Here he is.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOVERNOR CHRIS CHRISTIE (R), NEW JERSEY: I am no fan of the affordable care act. I think it's wrong for New Jersey and I think it's wrong for America. I fought against it and believe in the long run it will not achieve what it promises. However, it is now the law of the land.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: So I guess, forget the fact for a second that the political thing to say is maybe even worse than I was against it before I was for it, but the positions working 69 percent of New Jersey voters say he's handling it right. Isn't this proof that for your party, it's time to abandon the Obamacare bogeyman, let that one go?
KING: First of all, Chris Christie -- I have great respect for Chris Christie. I think he'd be a great president. He's representing New Jersey with what he feels is best for New Jersey. Paul Ryan has to represent the views of all the Republicans -- the majority of Republicans in Congress.
But again, I think once you get to the table and there's negotiations going on, you take it from there. Paul is bringing his position to the table. The president will bring his. Let's see where it's going to go. There's no need to concede anything up front.
BURNETT: All right, the final question, some interesting video we saw of you this week in the boxing ring. And you got to have -- you landed some pretty good shots. Here you are. You did land some really good shots. There we go, getting in the ring.
This is good and I'm impressed. You don't have any bruises or anything from this. When you got in there, though, and started fighting, who were you imagining punching? You know, that you deal with every day.
KING: Well, I would say maybe reporters. I'll leave it at that.
BURNETT: Maybe me. KING: No, not you, not you, Erin. No, seriously. There are a few people I had in mind. I was trying to stay alive. I wasn't really thinking of inflicting the damage, doing that I landed a few shots along the way.
BURNETT: Well, it looks pretty good there. Thanks so much. Appreciate it. Good to see you, Congressman.
KING: Thank you, Erin. Appreciate it.
BURNETT: All right, still OUTFRONT, Lance Armstrong says he is just like Bill Clinton.
And a ruling in the so called cannibal cop case has some legal analysts asking can you go to jail for what you fantasize about? There might be a jail overload if so.
As we get closer to a new pope, you're going to meet a professional athlete who decided to give it all up for a higher calling.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I found that there's a much greater way that I can use the game of soccer, to spread the gospel, to glorify him in everything that I do.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BURNETT: Our second story, OUTFRONT, black smoke rising. The first ballot has been taken inside the Sistine Chapel tonight. There is no new pope yet. So the start of the secret election got under way after the large wooden doors to the Sistine Chapel were closed, and then the cardinals took an oath of secrecy.
It is incredible. If you've been there as a tourist, you have the brief moments of what's going on in there. Thousands gathered in St. Peter's Square to watch the chimney from the chapel where the world will see its first indication of a new pope.
That's where Anderson Cooper is tonight. Anderson, obviously everyone's waiting to see the white smoke, the indication that they have a new pope. I know they have some smoke technology now, so hopefully we will see white or black, not just a shade of gray. But what did you see today?
ANDERSON COOPER, HOST, CNN'S "AC 360": Yes, it was very black smoke when it finally did billow out and there was a lot of it. So clearly, the kinks in past years, they've worked them out. It was very clear it was black smoke immediately.
It really was an extraordinary day, Erin. As you said, I mean, the pomp and the pageantry, the history on display, really impressive not just for the faithful, of course, but for anybody watching on television, or anyone who had the privilege of actually being in St. Peter's Square.
Thousands came out throughout the day, even though there was a driving rain. People just kind of wanted to be here, wanted to be part of the history, and as you said, a vote was taken, one single vote, and then we saw the black smoke, meaning no pope has been selected.
But sort of the politicking really begins after the vote is done, after they have had dinner, once the conclave is done for the day. And this evening, small groups, 115 cardinals will be meeting one with another discussing the results of this first vote.
They will at least now have a sense of who the frontrunners really are, what names are really in contention, and the different blocks are going to be talking with one another, figuring out how they're going to vote tomorrow, and where they take it from there.
BURNETT: Sort of amazing to watch and maybe in part because there has been no change over so many years. That that's what makes this incredible. I know you're doing a special tonight on "AC 360." What do you have?
COOPER: Yes. We'll obviously be covering all the day's developments. We'll be talking to John Allen, our Vatican analyst. Also a spokesperson for the Vatican, really trying to give you a sense of what it's like inside that conclave and what happens as soon as the conclave is over for the day.
Who the frontrunners may be and where things are. Really want to give you a sense of what it's like to be here now on this extraordinary day, and really what makes this different from what it was eight years ago.
And really any other time that we've seen this in our lifetime, is that a pope has not died, so there's a sense of joyfulness I think in the crowds here. There's not the same sort of somberness that we've seen in past years after the death of a pope.
BURNETT: All right, looking forward to seeing you in a few moments. Anderson Cooper will be live from Rome at the top of the hour. But as the world waits for a new pope to be elected, we decided to find out what America's next generations of priests are thinking about because after all, the future of the Catholic Church rests in their hands in so many ways.
So we actually went to one of the oldest seminaries in America. It's Mount St. Mary's and it's in Maryland. And it's where we found a young man who had the dream life, but gave it up to answer God's call.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BURNETT (voice-over): For 29-year-old Chase Hilgenbrinck, there is nothing more important than faith.
CHASE HILGENBRINCK, SEMINARIAN, MOUNT ST. MARY'S: There is no doubt in my mind that this is a call from God. BURNETT: A fifth year seminarian at Mount St. Mary's in Maryland, Chase is just a year away from becoming an ordained priest. But joining the priesthood wasn't always his dream.
HILGENBRINCK: The priesthood was -- never seemed to be something I wanted for myself. It wasn't popular. It didn't excite me.
BURNETT: Growing up in a typical Catholic family in Bloomington, Illinois, Chase had a passion for soccer. In high school, he played for the under 16 U.S. national team and he went on to play at Clemson University. That's before he moved to Chile to play in the pros.
HILGENBRINCK: I moved to South America, you know, thinking that, you know, professional soccer was everything that I wanted for my life.
BURNETT: But thousands of miles from friends and family, Chase suddenly found himself alone and looking to God.
HILGENBRINCK: And I remember at that time just hearing the silence in my heart. Be my priest. That's about the most uncomfortable thing that I can hear at this point. You know? That's not comfort. And what I want, you know, is to be comfortable doing -- you know, playing soccer and maybe a girlfriend and maybe a lot of friends and the limelight and the fame and the money that goes along with it.
BURNETT: His prayers were answered in 2006. He won a national championship in Chile and soon had everything he ever wanted.
HILGENBRINCK: I met a great Catholic girl. We started dating and ended up dating for a couple of years actually. Had all kinds of friends. And I was truly living the life that I dreamed of.
BURNETT: But it wasn't enough. Chase says something was still missing. Even though he seemed to have it all.
HILGENBRINCK: I'm 25 years old and there's got to be something more. I can't live thinking that I've already experienced everything that I wanted in my life. I knew at that time what it was. And I knew that I was called to the priesthood, although I didn't want to accept it.
BURNETT: Three months after signing a contract with major league soccer's New England Revolution, Chase walked away from the game of his dreams to join the seminary.
HILGENBRINCK: I found that there's a much greater way that I can use the game of soccer, and that's to spread the Gospel, to glorify him in everything that I do. Now I'm the chaplain of the Division One Men's Soccer team here on campus, that why I'm essentially doing more in the sport now than I ever have before.
BURNETT (on camera): You've probably heard about the decline in the number of priests. It's pretty stunning. Since 1965, the number of Catholic priests in America has fallen by nearly a third, but get this, according to one study, 58 percent of American Catholic boys between the ages of 13 and 18 have considered a vocation in the church, and as we saw, the seminary at Mount St. Mary's is full of young men like Chase Hilgenbrinck.
(Voice-over): That's despite the strict vow of celibacy that every priest has to take.
HILGENBRINCK: I've learned now that celibacy is not so much a sacrifice as it is just a new way to love. I'm called to love in the same way that Jesus Christ loved his people. That's a lot to live up to, but I'm ready for that challenge.
BURNETT: And as the world waits for a new Pope, so does soon-to- be father Chase Hilgenbrinck.
HILGENBRINCK: It's an exciting time for our church to see what, you know, God has in store for us in this next Pope.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BURNETT: Pretty amazing story.
OUTFRONT next, there's another manhunt under way for a suspect who may be targeting authorities for execution.
Plus, Facebook. Can it tell if you're stupid, or at the least tell your IQ? And a developing story ESPN making a major decision involving the X Games tonight.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BURNETT: And now an update to a story we brought you in January. According to a report on ESPN.com, two events at the X Games have been discontinued, including a snowmobile event. This is a different snowmobile competition than the one that took the life of snowmobiler Caleb Moore, who died after a crash at the X Games in Aspen.
That event is called the snowmobile freestyle and it's come under fire ever since his death when he was thrown from the -- from the snowmobile. You may remember these images. A report quotes an ESPN spokesman as saying the event was not dropped in response to what happened to Caleb and that the freestyle event is still under review.
The Moto X Best Trick competition has also been discontinued, though. So you're going to see a lot of rest there.
And now our third story OUTFRONT. A murder suspect surrounded. A 72-hour manhunt for suspected killer and ex-con Michael Boysen is now centered around this hotel in Lincoln City, Oregon, about 90 miles southwest of Portland. Now police right now are negotiating with Boysen, who allegedly killed his grandparents over the weekend on his first night home from prison.
Authorities say Boysen is extremely dangerous because they believe he has been stockpiling weapons.
Casey Wian is OUTFRONT with new information on the search.
What can you tell us, Casey?
CASEY WIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Erin, here's what we know. I just spoke with the police chief of Lincoln City, Oregon. And he said negotiations are continuing and that is obviously a good sign.
What happened is this -- the police got a tip from a worker, a clerk at this motel this morning. She was watching the morning news and saw a report about Michael Boysen and the manhunt and she recognized him as someone who had checked into that motel the night before last night.
What's really interesting here is he checked in under his own name and using his own driver's license, according to police. Of course, what they've been really worried about is they found in their investigation since these two murders occurred on either Friday night or Saturday morning, they found out that he had been searching the Internet looking for places to buy guns as far away as Nevada. He is a convicted felon, he's had several arrests and convictions involving drugs and robberies.
He can't buy a gun in a normal store, so he was looking at gun shows, police say, and that he had made threats to corrections officers, members of his own family. So they were very scared that they didn't know where he was for a long time. Now they know where he is, or at least they think they do and they're still negotiating, but no resolution yet -- Erin.
BURNETT: A lot of people are going to pay attention to that and the gun show loophole there that you mentioned. But what about the motive? They're saying he allegedly killed his grandparents over the weekend when he -- when he got out of prison.
Do they have any idea why?
WIAN: They don't have any idea about a motive, but one of the things they're looking into, he was supposed to go to rehab either today or tomorrow. He was released from prison on Friday. He has four of his previous convictions, involved robberies, involving OxyContin. So he's been a prescription drug addict and has had problems with that in the past. They were looking at that as a possible link to these horrific killings -- Erin.
BURNETT: All right. Thanks very much, Casey.
Still OUTFRONT, James Holmes was expected to enter a plea of not guilty by reason of insanity for the murder of 12 people at a movie theater. Today, though, his lawyers got cold feet and we got to see him, though, for the first time in months. We have that for you.
And a former cop going to jail partially for what he fantasized about doing to his wife.
And then this picture, why it is causing such an uproar?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BURNETT: Welcome back to the second half of OUTFRONT.
We start with stories we care about, where we focus on reporting from the front lines.
And so, we begin this -- the old adage "you can't buy happiness." But you sure can buy a seat in Congress. According to new findings by MapLight, which tracks money in Congress, it can be done. It just costs money.
According to a report, $1.7 million is the average to win a House seat, $10.5 million in the Senate.
Jennifer Duffy of the nonpartisan Cook Political Report says that spending is only going to go up. After all, the presidential candidates each spent more than a billion dollars in 2012, she says, and Senate races could be $50 million each.
Well, surveillance video of a drive-by shooting has been released by the Metropolitan Police Department in Washington. This shooting actually took place right near the capitol early on Monday morning.
We'll show this to you in slow motion. Police say 12 pedestrians were injured by a spray of bullets that came from at least one car. They're looking for two vehicles and calling it an assault with intent to kill. Police say a motive hasn't been identified because an investigation is still ongoing. The video is pretty incredible there.
Well, a Web site has posted what appears to be Social Security numbers and personal information belonging to a lot of important people in Washington and Hollywood. First lady Michelle Obama, Beyonce, and even the FBI director Robert Mueller. It's pretty shocking.
Now, it's not clear whether they were hacked or whether the information was pulled from public records, but we are told that the Secret Service and the FBI are investigating and cyber security expert, Colonel Cedric Leighton, tells us the U.S. needs to strengthen its data protection laws.
We all are painfully aware of the next war will likely include cyber attacks. And this country is not ready.
Well, a coincidence? Just a few moments ago, a modified 747 sharing parts with the 787 Dreamliner was forced to make an emergency landing in Seattle. It's worth mentioning because the FAA today approved the proposed fix for the battery problems that have led to fires and the groundings of this 787 Dreamliner.
Now, the parts don't even seem to be able to get off the ground. The potential fix includes a redesign that would minimize the odds of a battery short circuiting. The FAA, though, will only approve the redesign if Boeing can pass safety tests. Until then, that plane is sitting on the ground. Well, it's 586 days since the United States lost its top credit rating. What are we doing to get it back? Well, the president is wining and dining. We're going to give him credit. That will be today's check -- 586 is getting awfully high, people.
And our fourth story OUTFRONT: the accused Colorado mass shooter got arraigned. In a twist, lawyers for James Holmes say he actually wasn't ready to enter a plea, so a judge did it for him, issued the standard not guilty plea. Now, Holmes is accused of gunning down moviegoers at the screening of "The Dark Knight Rises" last year. Twelve people died in the incident, 58 were wounded.
Insanity was expected to be a major part of today's proceedings. He could have pled insanity and avoid jail. But Ted Rowlands tells us there's a good chance his lawyers could still pursue that defense. He's OUTFRONT with the story.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
TED ROWLANDS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): As James Holmes walked into the courtroom, shooting victim Marcus Weaver was watching his every move.
MARCUS WEAVER, SHOOTING VICTIM: According to what I saw and just being in that same courtroom as the person who committed one of the large massacres in U.S. history, I feel that he didn't seem out of touch.
ROWLANDS: Weaver doesn't believe James Holmes is insane. But there's a good possibility his lawyers will be pursuing an insanity defense. If they do, Colorado law requires that Holmes undergo extensive psychiatric testing, which could include not only a lie detector test but truth serum.
DR. MAX WACHTEL, FORENSIC PSYCHOLOGIST: The person will be given an I.V and given a little bit of the medicine and then just start asking him questions and they start talking.
ROWLANDS: Dr. Max Wachtel is a forensic psychologist. Truth serum he says can come in different forms, including sodium thiopental which is also used in executions, to calm a prisoner before a lethal injection. The problem, says Dr. Wachtel, is truth serum doesn't necessarily work.
WACHTEL: They could be lying. They could be hallucinating and talking about stuff that never happened. They could be making stuff up. All kinds of things can come out of a person's mouth when they're under the influence of a drug like that.
ROWLANDS: None of the experts we talked to seemed to remember truth serum actually being used to evaluate a prisoner. But Judge William Sylvester has approved the use of it on Holmes if he pleads insanity, along with a full mental evaluation of Holmes.
His lawyers are worried that could end up being used against him. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If they're seeking the death penalty, then anything he says can be used not only to convict him, but to kill him as well.
ROWLANDS: James Holmes' parents attended Tuesday's hearing but had nothing to say as they were leaving the courthouse.
(on camera): Prosecutors say they plan to announce whether or not they'll seek the death penalty against James Holmes at his next court appearance, which is scheduled for April 1st.
Ted Rowlands, CNN, Centennial, Colorado.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BURNETT: All right. Now to the infamous police officer known as the "cannibal cop". Gilberto Valle was convicted today in New York for plotting -- plotting -- to kidnap, rape, and cook women. Now, he never carried out his plot, but there was evidence that he took steps to make the cannibalism scheme a reality, including a document found on his wife's laptop called "abducting and cooking Kimberly, a blueprint."
The defense argued this is all just a sex fantasy and that he never would have carried it out.
Is Valle convicted for his thoughts? Or is the verdict, and a potential lifetime in jail, justified?
OUTFRONT tonight, criminal defense attorney Anne Bremner and former prosecutor Wendy Murphy.
Good to see both of you.
Obviously, the case itself extremely disturbing, but there are a lot of things when you think about what this could mean, in terms of precedence, that I want to get to.
Let me start with you, Anne, though. Is he being convicted for his thoughts? Are you surprised by this?
ANNE BREMNER, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Both. He's been convicted for his thoughts. And yes, I'm surprise.
And the thing is, it's like a penny for your thoughts. How about prison for your thoughts? And Shakespeare wrote about this in "Measure for Measure," complaining about the puritans punishing people for their thoughts. That's why in the U.S., we have the First Amendment. I mean, we have to have an act for a crime, actus reus. And we have to have intent, mens rea.
He only had -- he only had mens rea, he never had an act. I mean, you know, we can think all kinds of things in this world and in this country and it's OK if we don't commit a crime.
BURNETT: Let me tell you one of the defense attorneys, Julia Gatto, told reporters after the verdict. Here it is.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JULIA GATTO, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: This case involved thoughts that were unusual and bizarre and frankly very ugly. And we think that the jury just couldn't get past that and they never got to the law.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Is that partially true? I mean, she's saying look, this is ugly. No one's trying to say that what he did or thought about was in any way pleasant, but it was still just a thought.
BREMNER: Well --
(CROSSTALK)
BURNETT: Wendy, go ahead.
BREMNER: Wendy's got it.
WENDY MURPHY, FORMER PROSECUTOR: No. So here's the interesting thing. If the only thing the guy did was think bad thoughts, he wouldn't have been charged, OK? Because lots of people do fantasize. And I think, you know, when you mix sex into it, we think even bigger things about fantasy because lots of fantasizing on the Internet is sexual.
But what this guy did wrong -- and he knows exactly what he did and why he was convicted -- he went so far beyond fantasizing to naming 24 women that he was going to kill and cook, literally downloading personal and truthful information about actual women who he was planning to kidnap, kill, and cook. And he even went to the neighborhood of one of the victims after making an agreement with one of his co-conspirators to kill her and kidnap her for $5,000. That's a lot of overt acts.
And conspiracies -- look, the conspiracy rule of law doesn't require that the final act actually occurred. That's the point. We are allowed to criminalize, prosecute, and punish the plan. Why? Because we don't want to wait until the person is dead before we do something about it, obviously.
BURNETT: Anne, what about that point? You wouldn't want to take the risk. I mean, the document about his wife, abducting and cooking Kimberly, a blueprint. You wouldn't want to ever to take the risk before something getting to that point.
BREMNER: But that was all fantasy. Said it was fantasy. Said it with his friends, even his friend, Moody Blues I think in the U.K. -- I keep thinking of that line from Moody Blues song. You have to decide which is real and which is an illusion.
I mean, he said all along, "I'm kidding, this is just fantasy." And they go back and forth about this kind of imagine this, imagine that, imagine this blueprint, imagine this seeing person, Yes, yes, yes.
But they didn't do any act. Not one, overt act, which is required in federal court for conspiracy to convict him. And what he's convicted of (ph) obviously is a conspiracy. And the fact is he thought creepy, bad thoughts. But the act isn't there.
MURPHY: Anne, he went -- Anne, he looked up a woman's name and he went to her neighborhood after making a plan to kidnap her for $5,000.
And, look, let's change the facts a little bit. Let's say the guy pretended to be fantasizing about blowing up a plane. Then looked on the Internet to see when the planes might be arriving. Then he went to LaGuardia.
Would you honestly be debating --
BREMNER: That's different.
MURPHY: -- whether that guy should be prosecuted? Are you kidding me?
BREMNER: That's totally different. Going to the airport and going to LaGuardia --
MURPHY: That's what he did. No, it's not.
He went to the woman's neighborhood. Same thing.
BREMNER: That's a covert act.
MURPHY: That's an overt act -- at least, at least a very serious overt act. He did a lot of other things.
BURNETT: Covert, overt.
(CROSSTALK)
BURNETT: How much time should he get in jail, Wendy? He could get a lifetime.
MURPHY: Well, look, if they really believe that he was planning any of this stuff -- because this stuff does go on. The public doesn't like to think that women could be kidnapped and killed and that there's sadistic stuff going on out there. It is.
So, if that's real, if he was actually going to commit these crimes, he should get a lot of time behind bars. And, frankly, what I'd like to see is the NYPD do an investigation of the case files he handled. He was a cop for six years. He was investigating rape, sexual assault, domestic abuse.
I'm taking a guess here, but I'm thinking he wasn't treating those crimes with the right kind of seriousness. And I'd like to know.
BURNETT: All right. I will hit pause right there. We will keep on. There's going to be an appeal.
Well, OUTFRONT next, Lance Armstrong says he's Bill Clinton. Hmm. I wonder what Lloyd Benson would say to that? Why one of our guests says he's pedaling in the wrong direction.
What do you do if you're a sultan with a harem on a trip to the United States? Well, of course, you meet with President Obama and go shopping.
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BURNETT: President Obama had a busy day. It wasn't just wooing Republicans. He met with the sultan of Brunei, and during the meeting, the president said this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Tomorrow, he's going to have a day to take his family to New York. We're going to encourage him to do some shopping because we want to continue to strengthen the U.S. economy.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: So you thought that was a joke, right? No.
Which brings me to tonight's number: 24. That's the number of duck umbrellas the sultan of Brunei purchased during his last visit to New York City. According to Robert Blau (ph), the owner of the store, in 2010, on a whim, the sultan spent more than $500 on novelty umbrellas and over $20,000 on lizard skin handbags.
But you know what? That was nothing to him, because the sultan spends a lot more than that here in New York. He's worth more than $20 billion. He owns a fleet of more than 5,000 luxury cars and his own 747, which he actually flew himself to the United States.
Now, his family includes 12 children by three wives, lives in a 1,788-room palace. They also have homes in London, Los Angeles, New York, and Paris. It is a lifestyle that many of us will never experience, to state the obvious.
But Jillian Lauren has. The best selling author who spent time in the harem, yes, of the sultan's brother. She saw firsthand how they lived.
In December 2011, she came OUTFRONT.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JILLIAN LAUREN, AUTHOR, "SOME GIRLS: MY LIFE IN A HAREM": When I went to this supposed audition or casting, it was supposedly to go and entertain rich businessmen in Singapore for what at that time was a tremendous amount of money for me.
BURNETT: Twenty thousand dollars. LAUREN: Right, which was astronomical for two weeks worth of work. And when I got the job, they told me actually you're being invited to be the guest of the prince of Brunei and to attend these parties that he has every night. I said, where? I had never even heard of Brunei.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: A lot of people haven't heard much about Brunei. By the way, check out the book. There's also a scene about the guy that was with the president today.
Based on the per capita GDP of Brunei, it's the fifth richest country in the world, one spot above the United States of America, which explains the sultan of a country -- a country of 406,000 people, a country of 406,000, would get the face-to-face with President Obama.
And now to tonight's "Outer Circle" where we reach out to our sources around the world. Tonight, we go to Iran, where a photo of President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad hugging and consoling Hugo Chavez's grieving mother is upsetting to some of the country's clerics.
I asked our Reza Sayah if Ahmadinejad is feeling the heat.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REZA SAYAH, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Erin, he is feeling some heat. To most people, these images look like nothing more than a simple, comforting hug. But that's not how the members of the clerical establishment are seeing it. Iran, a country where strict interpretation of Islamic law says men and women can't touch if they're not related. One cleric calling this a sin, another saying Ahmadinejad was clowning around and failing to uphold the dignity of Iran.
This reaction really highlights a growing conflict in Iran between Ahmadinejad and his political enemies who say he overstepped his power during his two terms, became too big for Iran's good. Ahmadinejad not up for re-election in June, but he's hoping one of his aides will make a run.
This criticism doesn't bode well for his aide or Ahmadinejad's last few months in office -- Erin.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: All right. Thanks to Reza.
And now, our fifth story OUTFRONT: is Lance Armstrong Bill Clinton?
The disgraced cyclist says it's only a matter of time before the public forgives him, just like the public forgave Bill Clinton for the Monica Lewinsky affair. He tells "Texas Monthly" magazine in a new interview just published that, quote, "people will forgive and forget and remember the good stuff you did. Clinton did it. He loves to work, he loves people, he loves to hustle. He's a hero of mine. He's a tough guy, he's smart, surrounded himself with good people and 10 years later, he's president of the world. It can be done."
Yes. But can it be done for Lance?
OUTFRONT tonight, David Epstein, senior writer for "Sports Illustrated"; Stephanie Miller, liberal talk show radio host; and our contributor Reihan Salam.
All right, a pretty interesting one.
Stephanie, let me -- let me start with you. The Americans want to believe in redemption. You've got Michael Vick, right, of the dog thing playing in the NFL. Hugh Grant still acting in movies. We all remember that. I'm not going to talk about incident. Robert Downey Jr., Charlie Sheen. The list seems never ending.
Why can't we believe in lance?
STEPHANIE MILLER, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: Don't start with me on Michael Vick. I'm too big a dog lover, Erin.
But, you know, I think the key difference between Bill Clinton is I think 70 percent of the American people agreed with me that he shouldn't be impeached for his private life. His cheating, Erin, had nothing to do with his job. Whereas Lance's cheating has everything to do with his job and why people believed in him, were inspired by him and it all turned out to be a lie and it went on for many, many years.
BURNETT: All right. She raises an interesting point, David. There's cheating and then there's cheating. I mean, lot of people cheat in their personal lives, and professionally, people are still respected. President Clinton, it was a personal indiscretion.
Lance Armstrong cheated at a sport that was at the heart of who he is and vilified people who accused him.
The author of the article actually writes something that was interesting. "Clinton fared better in print and on the Internet, across the country and around the globe. Reviews of Lance's cold, careful performance had been universally scathing, he was a narcissist, a sociopath, a D-bag" and they did spell it out.
DAVID EPSTEIN, SPORTS ILLUSTRATED: You said it. Lance -- Bill Clinton, right, didn't -- his whole career wasn't fraudulent and he had this one sort of personal issue.
But it goes way beyond doping. If it was just doping, people probably would forgive Lance at some point or some segment of people would. But it's really this sort of human violence that came out. He's trying to ruin people personally and financially who he knew at the time were telling the truth and he is still not apologizing to fully and he's still lying, and he's still being investigated -- he's still got federal investigations. This is still getting worse, not better.
BURNETT: Reihan, what do you think? The president, President Clinton was one of the most popular politicians in the country. Now, he is -- approval ratings of 69 percent. Could Lance Armstrong be redeemed if the next Tour de France winner commits has a bigger offense?
I mean, people looked at President Clinton, they say part of the reason he became popular because George Bush came in, made people angry and then Clinton looked better.
REIHAN SALAM, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: I when you think about politicians, a lot of it is tribal. There are people who are going to be loyal to a Republican politician pretty much regardless of what he or she does, the same with the Democrat.
So, there's that tribal allegiance. It doesn't mean you are going to have a lot of support, but there's going to be some hard core of people who will keep identifying with you and will keep thinking that you have been cheated in some way.
Whereas the problem with Lance Armstrong is he doesn't have an obvious constituency. You don't have cyclists. You don't have cancer survivors. You don't have any group that's thinking we're going to stick with this guy no matter what.
And when you have that group that will stick with you no matter, you can leverage that loyalty in order to have that kind of recovery that David is describing.
BURNETT: Or you could be someone like Tiger Woods, I mean, the coverage of his personal life was just as big and lets so many people down. But he wins again, because it wasn't steroids, it wasn't cheating.
SALAM: He's a funny thing about Tiger Woods, he's a funny example because he's someone who, you would think he has the tribal loyalty of someone who belongs to his group. But one thing about Tiger Woods that he wanted to be seen as an individual. He called himself accadlination (ph), for example, without identifying primary as an African-American.
So, by virtue of doing that, he didn't necessarily have that intense loyalty from any group that sticks up for him despite of what he had done.
BURNETT: Stephanie, you know, this reminded us when we were talking about this today, and Lance saying he's like Bill Clinton, enlisting all these amazing things about Bill Clinton, you know, implying, oh, I'm like that, too or I could be like that. What about Rod Blagojevich reminded us? I mean, he put's Lance's comment to shame.
Let me just play what he had to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) ROD BLAGOJEVICH (D), FORMER ILLINOIS GOVERNOR: Then I thought about Mandela, Dr. King, Gandhi and tried to put perspective in all of this. If you're asking me, do I see myself like a modern day Frank Capra movie and I'm the Jimmy Stewart or Gary Cooper character, a guy ideologically, or idealistically trying to do what's right for people fighting a system, and then they push back -- yes, I see myself that way.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: I'm like that response the best.
MILLER: Wow.
BURNETT: But, Stephanie --
MILLER: I think the lesson, Erin, is people will forgive extramarital sex, but not delusions of grandeur of that degree. I mean, I also think with extramarital cheating, I think between Newt Gingrich, and John Edwards and Arnold Schwarzenegger. There's a new low bar, isn't there? Unless you are impregnating the housekeeper on the hospital bed next to your dying wife, people think it's not a big deal apparently anymore.
It's -- how bad does it have to be now, right?
BURNETT: All right. Thanks very much to all three of you.
And still OUTFRONT, how Facebook can tell -- and that means tell -- your I.Q.
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BURNETT: So, all week for CNN's "What Women Want" campaign, we have been talking and bringing you conversations of ideals for women and what they want out of life. But one company knows more about women than anybody else, Facebook. And that's not just because the author of "Lean In", Sheryl Sandberg, works there.
See, here is what happened. In 2009, the company introduced the like button. For the last few years, a lot of people have clicked what they like on brands, musicians, television shows, whatever it is. Click "like", the things you want in your life.
For most Facebook users, liking something online is a casual, unimportant thing, right? Yes, but it's not. This is like 1984. You think it takes a half second and then you move on. But not so.
The people of University of Cambridge have looked into this. A research team of the school analyzed the likes of more than 58,000 American Facebook users to see what they would find out about you. Well, you know what? They found out everything.
They say they can determine almost everything about you, including your gender, your ethnicity, your sexual orientation, just for starters. Yes, the more they know about you, the more they can target ads at you, selling your soul.
That's not all. They are able to determine user's religion, your political affiliation and your I.Q. Now, I.Q. is my favorite, because according to the study, the most intelligent people like these things -- science, thunderstorms, OUTFRONT -- oh, I mean "The Daily Show", "The Godfather", Morgan Freeman's voice, "To Kill a Mockingbird", Mozart and curly fries.
Curly fries -- I have a confession to make, I hate curly fries. When I go to Arby's and they give you the choice, curly fries or potato cakes? I always go with the potato cake. So, fine, you know, call me stupid.
Thank God I'm not on Facebook anyway.
"ANDERSON COOPER 360" from Rome starts right now.
