Return to Transcripts main page

Erin Burnett Outfront

Dozens Dead In Spanish Train Crash; House Rejects Measure To Limit NSA Powers; White House Takes Action Against Egypt For Morsy Ouster; Weiner Ignores Calls to Drop Out

Aired July 24, 2013 - 19:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

ERIN BURNETT, CNN ANCHOR: OUTFRONT next, breaking news. A deadly train crash in Spain tonight. Right now, Reuters reporting 45 people are dead, hundreds injured, and we have more from the fallout of yesterday's Anthony Weiner's press conference. We now tonight can confirm for you the identity of the woman that he recently was sending lewd messages to.

And the royal baby finally gets a name. We are going to tell you why they chose this moniker. Let's go OUTFRONT.

Good evening. I'm Erin Burnett. I want to begin tonight with the breaking news OUTFRONT, the deadly train crash tonight in Spain. Shocking this is just a high speed train. People on their way to Madrid, as many as 45 people at this moment are dead. The number keeps changing. It was a high speed train that derailed in Northwest Spain. Now the numbers of the dead that we have are according to Reuters citing officials in the state of Galicia.

Railway officials say the train derailed on a curve as it was approaching a station in the city of Santiago De Compostela, which is about 400 miles outside of Madrid. More than 200 passengers were on board. Pictures of the scene showed at least one train car snapped in two. One other one of the trains cars on fire. It is a fluid and tense situation.

Some of the pictures we've seen have been absolutely horrific with bodies just literally strewn outside that train tonight some covered with make shift blankets or sweaters. I want to get to Al Goodman who is in Spain with the story tonight. Al, what can you tell us?

AL GOODMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Erin, this train accident is how it is being described by officials at this point with no early indications of terrorism is what we are being told by a senior aide to the prime minister occurred on a Madrid train that was bound for a region in the northwest of Spain about a six-hour train ride. The accident happened about near the end, about five hours into it as the train was coming into a station at the town of Santiago De Compostela.

It came off the tracks, many of the cars if not all of the cars came off the tracks, 218 passengers aboard the train, a crew of at least five or six. They don't know exactly what happened, but certainly there are many dead and dozens injured -- Erin. BURNETT: All right, thanks very much to Al Goodman there reporting live tonight from Spain. As we get information we are going to share that with you. A frightening story because it is something that could happen absolutely anywhere. People on their way home on a high speed train who have died tonight.

We have other breaking news that I want to get straight to because in Washington the House has just this moment barely voted down a controversial bill that would have severely curved the NSA's controversial surveillance program. The bill lost by a vote of 205 to 217. What it would done was effectively end the blanket surveillance programs exposed by NSA's leaker, Edward Snowden.

In the lead up to tonight's vote the bill was strongly opposed by the White House, America's top intelligence officials and congressional leaders on both sides of the aisle. It would have been very unclear if that view would prevail.

CNN Pentagon correspondent Barbara Starr is OUTFRONT. So Barbara, obviously, this was a very close vote. It didn't go the way some people thought it would. A lot of people were against this amendment. What do you make of the vote tonight?

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, I think, Erin, good evening. It is clear that this is a very important vote because support for the administration's position to maintain these programs as the status quo appears to be quite shaky. Deep partisan divides on Capitol Hill now about what to do about these surveillance programs, how and if to change them, concerns around the basic question. Your personal privacy if you have a telephone versus keeping the country safe and national security -- Erin.

BURNETT: So if the amendment, what exactly would have changed here? If you say we can't have blanket surveillance, would anything have changed?

STARR: Yes, it would have. I think it gives us an indication where Congress is going and what Congress does want to change. Let's look at some of the details of this amendment, three key things. It would have only allowed for collection of phone records of someone that was involved at target or related to a government investigation. No more random collection of everybody's phone records. It would have ended that blanket collection effort.

And the third really important point is the FISA Court, the secret government court, all of their decisions would have been secret. Some of that if this would have passed would have been made available to Congress. You begin to see here the shape of this fundamental debate, a really important debate that unveiled itself tonight on Capitol Hill. The debate between personal privacy in this country and the government's right to snoop -- Erin.

BURNETT: Barbara Starr, thank you very much. Tonight in Washington the White House sending a huge message and one that a lot of you wondered if they ever would send. Now the Obama administration taking its first direct action against Egypt's military for the ouster, which many call a coup, of President Mohammed Morsy.

The Pentagon now says it is going to delay the delivery of four F-16 fighter jets to Egypt. This was part of a deal made back in 2009 to send a total of 20 F-16s to the country. The White House also said though that today's decision isn't going to affect the $1.5 billion in aid that America sends to Egypt annually.

Jessica Yellin is at the White House tonight. Jessica, obviously Morsy's ouster was three weeks ago. This administration has been very quiet in terms of taking action. It's chosen not do so why now?

JESSICA YELLIN, CNN CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, in part because they have been unhappy with the pace of transition to civilian rule and also, Erin, because they don't like the treatment of the opposition, which they think is continuing and they are increasingly unhappy with what they are seeing on the street.

They also decided now they just want to send a warning. This is a signal that things could get worse if they don't see some improvement quickly. They decided not to actually cut off aid and not to cancel the F-16 delivery all together, but just send a warning that that could come down the line. The basic message is that the U.S. does have leverage and that the Egyptians do not have a free hand, that the U.S. is willing to do the ultimate if the picture doesn't improve with the military.

BURNETT: So no F-16s but still sending $1.5 billion of aid. That sounds like trying to have your cake and eat it, too. Doesn't the White House have to choose?

YELLIN: No. They don't feel that they have to choose. This is essentially a warning to the Egyptians that the U.S. is still invested in having leverage there by having aid. They believe the aid brings stability, but the U.S. is not willing to let the military do whatever it chooses without consequences.

The other thing I'd point is, part of the Egyptians foreign military assistance deal with the U.S. they are required to send the lion's share of their foreign aid package here with U.S. defense contractors. If the U.S. decided and the White House decided to cancel those contracts all together, it would have a boomerang effect if not on the entire U.S. economy certainly with U.S. defense contractors who are counting on the money and invested a lot of it.

So members of Congress certainly and no doubt the White House have taken that into account before they think about canceling major contracts that a lot of U.S. jobs are relying on -- Erin.

BURNETT: All right, thank you very much, Jessica Yellin.

Still to come, Ariel Castro today was back in court, the man who held three women captive allegedly for more than a decade may cut a deal. Those women may also have to testify. They are next.

Plus the latest in the Anthony Weiner saga, the identity of his latest online paramour although one hesitates to use that word if you actually read the lewd messages that he was sending her.

And then the pope visits Brazil. Why authorities raised security to the highest possible level?

And the week after the "Rolling Stone" controversial cover when the terror suspect Dzhokhar Tsarnaev was put on the cover looking like a rock star, the magazine sales are reportedly surging.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BURNETT: Our second story, OUTFRONT, Castro returns to court for the second time in as many weeks. The Cleveland kidnapping suspect appeared before a judge today shackled and dressed in an orange prison jump suit. As you see his head was down. His eyes were closed. His attorneys told the court that they are discussing possible plea deals. That's crucial because this could go to trial next week.

His demeanor was similar last week when we showed you Ariel Castro at that time he pleaded not guilty to a 977-count indictment for allegedly holding Michele Knight, Amanda Berry and Gina Dejesus captive for nearly a decade.

OUTFRONT, Dr. Jeff Gardere, a clinical psychologist and Patty Wood, a body language expert. All right, I appreciate both of you taking the time. And Dr. Gardere, I want to start with you because we have heard from these three women. We have heard their voices. We have seen them. They say they are making progress in their recovery. I want to play again from all of you a little bit of each of what they have had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

AMANDA BERRY, HELD CAPTIVE FOR 10 YEARS: First and foremost, I want everyone to know how happy I am to be home with my family and my friends. It has been unbelievable. I am getting stronger each day and having my privacy has helped immensely.

MICHELLE KNIGHT, HELD CAPTIVE FOR 10 YEARS: I just want everyone to know I am doing just fine.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BURNETT: It's always hard to watch when you see that Michele Knight clip. Castro could face the death penalty if this goes to trial and obviously they are talking about a plea, which everybody has to hope will happen because if there is no plea that would mean that these women could be required to testify. What will be the impact of that on them?

JEFF GARDERE, CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: Well, certainly they would be re-traumatized over and over and over again. One of the things I do see and something we have talked about, they are showing some real strength. These women who are committed to the very long road to recovery and I would think they are having to -- if they have to go to a trial on this, we hope that they don't, but if they have to that would play into some of that recovery. Yes, more trauma, but also making them stronger in facing the world and facing this monster.

BURNETT: Because they would have to see him.

GARDERE: They would have to see him.

BURNETT: He would be in the courtroom when they were testifying.

GARDERE: They would have to relive this. We know they have PTSD and the major thing about post traumatic stress is trying to avoid the stimuli that set off a lot of the depression and anxiety. Now they will have to take it head on. What doesn't kill you makes you stronger.

BURNETT: Now Patty, let me ask you. We know as Jeff is talking about the women here that have suffered such unimaginable pain and suffering, I want to show you a side by side video of Ariel Castro from today and from last week. Both of these times he was in court, last week it was a female judge. He didn't look up at all when she addressed him, refused to look up, and these are two different times. But I will say that on the time today the right-hand of the screen it was a male judge that addressed him and when the judge addressed Ariel Castro looked up. What do you make of that?

WOOD: It's quite interesting. Of course, it was his first time in court when he had the female judge, and she had to admonish him. And actually, his head was bowed in shame both times. But I do think there was definitely a relationship with that female judge and his shame. That head bow, the sloped a-framed shoulders all show shame, I'm embarrassed by this situation.

BURNETT: And Dr. Gardere, let's look at Castro's demeanor in court as Patty describes it. Head hung in shame. I mean, you know that's how she interprets it. And when you compare it to the demeanor of the three young women in the video. Now obviously, they released this video; they knew it was going to the public. I mean, they -- I can only imagine what it took for them to be prepared. But they looked at that camera, they tried to smile. They made direct eye - I mean, look at this. These are women who haven't seen anybody in ten years. And look at what direct contact they made and smiling. How do you contrast them with him?

GARDERE: They were there. They were in the moment. They showed tremendous courage. It was extremely painful, but they were dealing with that horror and processing it and verbalizing what it is that they went through and where they are going ask. And with Ariel Castro, what we are seeing -- I agree with our other expert -- head hung in shame.

But he is also consciously pushing himself to what I call a depersonalization. He does not want to be there, does not want to be in the moment. Trying to set a buffer between himself and the reality of the monstrous, murderous things he has done.

BURNETT: And Patty, what about that, though? People might look at this and some might say he is doing this because he is trying to pull an act. He is trying to somehow create sympathy. He's trying to look like he is ashamed but is not. So someone who looks at it that way, why do you think that is wrong?

WOOD: Well, I actually see several complex cues. You also saw eye clinching where he clinched the eyes closed. The judge actually said you need to look at me because he closed his eyes. You saw very interesting posture, what I call a firing squad posture where he backed his head up and then closed his eyes as the first judge was speaking to him, showing distinct fear, that freeze in place. You've heard of flight fright. It's actually freeze flight fight, (INAUDIBLE) faint response that showed fear.

And oddly, I train therapists and foster parents to look for particular signs of abuse in children. And strangely, he actually showed some of those very indicators that he had been abused. And perhaps because of that strong feeling, the response that he was giving to the female judge, perhaps by a female. It is very interesting.

BURNETT: Hm. All right. Well, thank you both very much. A lot to think about there.

Still to come, the family saved by George Zimmerman scheduled to hold a press conference. It was cancelled. George Zimmerman's lawyer explains why. And Jay-Z slams Zimmerman.

Plus, Will and Kate's baby finally gets a name and wow, what a name it is. Yeah.

And former George H.W. Bush, a man who carries that name with great pride and dignity shaves his head. We are going to tell you why.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BURNETT: Our third story OUTFRONT, Britain's newest monarch has a name. Went nameless for a little while, which is kind of an amazing and special thing, right, to not have a name? But now he does. Prince George Alexander Louis Cambridge. Yes, it can sound stuffy to a lot of people, but you're kind of stuck if you're in that family. I mean, you can't go with Finneas or I don't know, Anderson, or something cool like that. "The Daily Telegraph" noted the prince is destined to become part of a long line of British rulers with the same name including King George VI, who you probably know from the Academy Award-winning movie "The King's Speech."

OUTFRONT tonight, royal expert Victoria Arbiter. Actually lived in Kensington Palace when her father was press secretary to the queen. So, you've been there, done that. George obviously a long history. Some might say a stodgy name. But it is an important royal name.

VICTORIA ARBITER, ROYAL EXPERT: It is, and actually, it has a resurgence in England in terms of popularity. It is cool again. George, patron saint of England. You mentioned six King Georges. And so I think it was always going to be a no-brainer.

BURNETT: That is amazing it is cool again! Which I guess names that are classics cycle back through, right? All right, so he only has three names. Only has three names. George Alexander Louis. But apparently royalty usually has four. So how did he get away with three?

ARBITER: Royal males normally have four. I think this is William's whole bit in terms of modernizing the monarchy. Yes, it was surprising, sort of men have four, girls have three. And yet, I think this is his way of saying we are shaking things up, we're doing things our way, we're doing what works for us. Maybe they couldn't agree on a fourth name. So again, William is putting his own stamp on everything.

BURNETT: And we don't know what he is going to go by as a little boy, right? Whether it's George or Alex or Al or --

ARBITER: I think he will be George, I really do. Just because as I said, it has had this resurgence. It's popular again. And it just gets confusing. He is George.

BURNETT: (INAUDIBLE). Just put the one you're going to use on the front. But now, there doesn't seem to be a nod to the Middleton family. Maybe the fourth could've been some name Kate's family liked, no?

ARBITER: Maybe, no, but not in this case. There is no intended disrespect. But the future sovereign is the Windsor bloodline. And so, these are Windsor names. There are certainly references to family members, far-out family members, but they're all royal members. I think a second, potentially a third child will see lots of tributes to the Middletons. Just not on the future monarch.

BURNETT: All right, well, thank you very much, Victoria. Been great to talk to you this week.

ARBITER: Thank you.

All right, OUTFRONT next, the latest from the Carlos Danger sex scandal. I mean, they could have named him Danger. Prince Danger. Thank God they didn't. Did Anthony Weiner's press conference hurt or help his campaign today?

Plus, the IRS takes a close look at your expense reports. Now a watchdog is taking a close look at the IRS' expenses. And wow, what we found in there.

And a week after "Rolling Stone" put the terror suspect from the Boston bombings on its cover, a lot of retailers said we are not going to sell it, right? They boycotted. Well, guess what? Something stunning happened.

And tonight's Shout Out. A new look for former president George H.W. Bush. He looks great. Bush 41 is 89 years old. He just shaved his head to support Patrick, the two-year-old little boy you see him holding there. Patrick is being treated for leukemia and obviously is losing his hair. Now, here is what Bush looked like a little over a week ago when he was being honored at the White House, a full head of hair. Again, 89 years old and he chose to do this wonderful thing. Tonight's Shout Out goes to former President Bush and the members of his security detail. They all shaved their heads to bring awareness to this important cause.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BURNETT: And welcome back to the second half of OUTFRONT, where we start with stories where we focus on our reporting from the front lines. And I want to begin with the IRS tonight. The IRS is telling OUTFRONT that quote, "cutting costs is a top priority." Why are they telling us this? Well, because there was an embarrassing report that found IRS executives had extremely high travel expenses.

Let me just tell you what we mean when we say that. Inspector general report reveals five executives who work for the IRS traveled more than 200 days in fiscal year 2012 and indicated that they may have been living in other cities and actually commuting in and out of Washington. That's why this happened for their day-to-day job. Now, regular commuting on taxpayer's dime, that'd be pretty nice if you can get it, right? The IRS tells us new procedures have been put in place to stop allowing those executives, though, to routinely leave their home office and travel to another city to conduct their principal work. So, they are making effort at reform.

Well, the last Boston Marathon bombing survivor finally going home. After 100 days of intensive treatment, dozens of procedures, 34- year-old Marc Fucarile finally left Spaulding Rehabilitation Hospital today. He asked his fellow Bostonians not to forget him or the others who were injured on that day. In an interview here on CNN, Fucarile addressed the controversial "Rolling Stone" cover depicting that shaggy-haired Dzhokhar Tsarnaev, saying it was, quote, "poor judgment."

Sales of "Rolling Stone" meanwhile are reportedly up 20 percent since the issue hit or maybe I should say didn't hit news stands, given that many retailers. Ironic that all of the coverage actually seems to have caused sales to surge.

A manhunt is on tonight for a possible serial killer in Japan. Hundreds of police at this moment are looking for a 63-year-old man in connection with the murder of five people, all of them lived in a tiny remote village that had 16 people in it. So, he has killed a third of the people in this town if he did it. All five were killed by injuries to the head, all five them have their homes burned down.

Serial killers are incredibly rare in Japan. I was looking at this today. And we found that according to Radford University serial killer database, and there is a database Japan has only had 82 serial killers. You think that's a lot. In the United States of America, we have had 2,088 serial killers.

In San Francisco, a bicyclist has pleaded guilty to felony vehicular manslaughter, but he's not going to jail. Prosecutors alleged that Chris Buchery (ph) ran a red light, hit a pedestrian crossing the street. The 37-year-old is going to serve community service and three years probation, but this is important because it's the first conviction of its kind in the United States involving a bicyclist.

"Bicycling" magazine editor in chief Peter Flack (ph) says cyclists should be held accountable if they break the law. But he tells OUTFRONT there are concerns that cyclists are unfairly targeted by police. And in New York, it seems that can happen. More tickets given last year to cyclists riding on the sidewalks than reckless drivers.

It has been 718 days since the U.S. lost its top credit rating. What are we doing to get it back?

Well, five years after the recession President Obama today said America is fighting its way back but there is more work to do.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We're not there yet. We've got more work to do. Even though our businesses are creating new jobs that have broken record profits nearly all of the income gains of the past 10 years have continued to flow to the top 1 percent.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BURNETT: The president went on to say the average CEO has gotten a raise of nearly 40 percent since 2009 while the average American earns less than he or she did in 1999.

And our fourth story -- just in -- we have now learned the identity of the woman that Anthony Weiner, also known online as Carlos Danger, said he sent lewd images to after he resigned from Congress for sending lewd messages to women. Yes, the messages I have read are beyond lewd, graphic and crude. I think that's very fair to say.

An acquaintance of the woman identifies her as 23-year-old Sydney Elaine Leathers of Indiana. Now, this could complicate it because the person who told us about this woman, Lou Colagiovanni, is a blogger.

He told CNN he Leathers on a political Facebook page that he moderated back in 2010. Leathers confided in Colagiovanni about the Weiner sexting messages and the two then discussed making money off of the messages. When Leathers decided to take the messages elsewhere Colagiovanni says he decided to go public.

As for Weiner, even though all kinds of parts of him are public, he is staying in the race for New York City mayor, despite calls for him to drop out from two of the city's major newspapers, "The New York Times" and "The New York Daily News."

Dana Bash has been following the New York City mayoral hopeful all day from early this morning and here in New York.

And, Dana, Weiner just talked to reporters. What does he say?

DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: You know, he is trying to emphasize as we have heard him do all day and for the past 24 hours, he is not going anywhere. He is still in the race. But, of course, there still are lots of questions about what you just explained about the fact that he was still engaging in these rather graphic exchanges with somebody who he had never met in Indiana a year ago.

And what is maybe one of the more stunning things about that is about that time, he and his wife gave their first big interview to "People" magazine really that month where Huma, his wife, was talking about the fact that he really just focused on being a good father and a good husband.

And so, I asked him about how he squares that with the fact that he was engaging in this at that very time.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BASH: Congressman, can you square that with the interview that you and your wife gave to "People" magazine right before that saying this is over?

ANTHONY WEINER (D), NEW YORK MAYORAL CANDIDATE: Look, I think that a lot of people see this as the resignation was the end of the challenges my wife and I, my family faced, and it wasn't. It was part of something that need to get resolved and frankly, it hadn't been. It took some -- it took some work to get to that place.

So, it wasn't a function of a certain moment in time came and went. This was a continuum. These things are behind me now.

But I can certainly understand you're asking these questions. I think it's a fair question and people have to answer that question for themselves.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: That question, Erin, that I asked was, what do you say to people that say this is personal, but what should make us believe that you actually have the judgment to be mayor of New York City? He says fair question but he wouldn't answer. I tried many times to ask what his answer was to that question. Meanwhile, he has been doing a couple of public events, campaign events tonight, and he actually had one where I am down in Lower Manhattan.

He testified before a housing authority meeting. He certainly was rousing the crowd. It was kind of the congressman who I remember back on the House floor who would get people riled up. He certainly had people happy and clapping. But at the same time, at the very beginning when he took the microphone, there were a handful of women who stood up in the audience and turned their backs in silent protest.

BURNETT: That is pretty interesting -- as Dana said, she tried to ask him several times about the judgment question. Yesterday, that's when he ended his press conference and walked out, and wouldn't answer that question then either.

Well, you know, while we are talking about Anthony Weiner, a person that everyone is most obsessed with in this case when it comes to American politics is not Anthony Weiner, it's his wife, Huma Abedin. And she made it very clear yesterday in a way that no campaign wife ever has. She just didn't stand there, she talked. She said she's not going anywhere.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HUMA ABEDIN, WIFE OF ANTHONY WEINER: Anthony's made some horrible mistakes both before his resigned from Congress and after. I do very strongly believe that that is between us and our marriage.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BURNETT: But why did she make that decision? So many people want to know.

And Alina Cho spoke with some of the people who know Huma Abedin best.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ALINA CHO, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): When Huma Abedin spoke of her devotion of her husband Anthony Weiner Tuesday --

ABEDIN: I love him. I have forgiven him. I believe in him.

CHO: The public may have been surprised but not those who know her. Members of her inner circle say Huma was out there because she wanted to be. A good wife she is not.

Look no further than the September issue of "Harper's Bazaar", a revealing essay written in Huma Abedin's own words. She writes, "Yes, I'm out on the campaign trail. It's where I want to be, because the choice for me is simple. I love my husband and we both love this city."

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I was struck by how much I could feel her love for her husband and her clarity about why she believed in him.

CHO: One friend from the Clinton White House days who did not want to be identified says back when the sexting scandal first broke in 2011, she, meaning Huma, wanted him to keep his congressional seat, not resign.

And now, it is Huma who is out there aggressively raising money, this friend says, from people who won't take Anthony's calls.

WEINER: My wife is an enormous asset to the campaign. She is the not-so secret weapon of this campaign.

CHO (on camera): Thirty-six-year-old Huma began her career as a Clinton White House intern, eventually becoming Hillary Clinton's traveling chief of staff. The two are so close Hillary was overheard at Huma's wedding, saying, "I have one daughter but if I had a second daughter, it would be Huma."

(voice-over): But her marriage to Anthony Weiner almost didn't last. Another close friend who spoke to her just before she gave her remarks Tuesday says Huma found out about this latest transgression last fall, months before the public, and in the friend's words was furious and this close to walking out the door for a second time.

Now, she writes in "Bazaar", the scandal has made her husband a better man. "New Yorkers will have to decide for themselves whether to give him a second chance. I had to make that same decision. And I know in my heart I made the right one."

Because her friends agree, Huma Abedin is, above all, ambitious.

For OUTFRONT, Alina Cho, New York.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BURNETT: Above all, ambitious.

Let's bring in our contributors, Margaret Hoover, and John Avlon and "Mediaite's" Joe Concha.

Great to have all three of you with us.

Let me start with you, Margaret, just a quick reaction here. I don't want to put you on the spot as a woman. But as a woman, when you watch that, what do you think?

MARGARET HOOVER, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Look, I surprisingly, Erin, find myself sympathizing with the woman who has clearly made the choice to stand by her husband. I don't think she is a victim. I don't think she has Stockholm syndrome. She clearly made a choice back when he was going to run that she was going to stand by him. And she's --

BURNETT: She is not giving up.

HOOVER: She is not backing out. Maybe she is doubling down because she knew that this is -- look, these new sexting messages can't be worse than what he was doing years before, and he was doing a lot of them years before, even though they're awful.

JOHN AVLON, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Yes, they can and here's how -- they happen after he apologized to his constituency, to his city and to her. After he said that whole essay which is so eloquent and heartfelt occurred before she found out that he'd been continuing this behavior under her nose, in their apartment, after their child's birth. That is a fundamentally different set of facts and that should really make people's stomachs churn because it's just sleazy in the worse way.

BURNETT: Even if you say, look, this is your personal issue, someone who does that, what do they do professionally? I guess it raises the question. And, Joe, Rush Limbaugh weighed in this today on his radio show. I want to play what he said about Huma and get your reaction, and also, Margaret, to this. Here is Rush.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RUSH LIMBAUGH, TALK RADIO HOST: Her loyalty is to Hillary Clinton and her role model is Hillary Clinton. Door mats. Door mats with the promise of a payoff later down the road.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BURNETT: What do you think, Joe?

JOE CONCHA, MEDIAITE: I wouldn't use the word door mats, but I'd like to use an example of somebody else who went through something similar. I don't know if you guys remember Elin Nordegren. That's Mrs. -- the former Mrs. Tiger Woods. Tiger got caught texting some women and then revealed he was sleeping with half the waitress population of RVs (ph) in Florida, right?

What did she do? She didn't stick around to be humiliated not once but twice to John's point. She didn't go to Tiger's apology press conference to stand by her man and make a statement. No, she didn't do any of that.

You know what she did? She contacted a lawyer. She packed up the kids. She packed up herself.

She got a divorce. She got half and she went into seclusion without talking to the media, didn't do a tearful sit-down with Barbara Walters. She is the exact opposite of Mrs. Weiner, a woman who believes that Hillary Clinton's moral compass is something that should be admired.

AVLON: She also took an eight iron to his car, as I recall.

CONCHA: It was an eight iron, John.

BURNETT: Come on, get your facts right here, if you're going to weigh on that.

CONCHA: Hey, Margaret and Erin, let me ask you guys a questions, right? We all have something in common here and I think we all know what it is. All right?

Margaret, you are pregnant. Erin, you are pregnant. And guess what?

HOOVER: And, Joe, are you breaking biology?

CONCHA: No, she's not here --

BURNETT: Your wife, OK.

CONCHA: -- but my wife is pregnant, as well. OK, Margaret, let's say John was caught doing this. He is forced to resign from "The Daily Beast" and CNN --

AVLON: Very uncomfortable with this line of reasoning, but go on.

(CROSSTALK)

HOOVER: Look, of course, you have to -- maybe this is something your wife can understand. There is something about trying to keep your family together.

I can't say I'd be forgiving. And, look, you and I both know, your wife, I'm sure if she has any good judgment, wouldn't be forgiving either.

AVLON: They got (INAUDIBLE) iron.

HOOVER: Look it --

CONCHA: But, Margaret, a second time after you are pregnant and doing it while you are pregnant, it's one thing if you're not. If you are, I think that's a whole new level of perversion. And, Erin, I'll ask you the same thing. Would you do that if your husband did this twice after becoming pregnant?

BURNETT: Let's give Margaret a chance to finish answering it, because you're saying you would have done something.

(CROSSTALK)

HOOVER: What we just heard from Alina Cho is that she found out about this many months ago. She still decided to help him run for office. So, she already made a decision.

Look, this is -- look, you know, who are we to second guess why she made her decision? This is not about a payoff. She is not a doormat.

CONCHA: What would you do, though, Margaret?

BURNETT: You both agree that she is not a door mat. But let me ask you this question though, quickly before we go. What -- obviously, there is love involved, there's love involved. You can't judge anybody else on that, OK?

But what you can't say is what does she get out of this? You look at the Rush Limbaugh comment she is a promise of a payoff, as Alina Cho reported, a friends say she is very ambitious. She has gotten $150,000 in donations for him, 20 contributions over $5,000, right under $5,000, the maximum allowed.

She is the one with the contacts and the (INAUDIBLE) and everything else. She doesn't need him.

AVLON: That's right. Look, that is part of the tragedy here in why I think Stockholm syndrome could apply, because she is a strong, capable, independent woman. And the whole campaign is going isn't because she's been a character witness at a press conference, because she's been able to call in the favors to run a credible campaign. That is the secret of this.

The fact that with this new information is standing by him really does her a disservice let alone the family and the city of New York.

BURNETT: All right. Well, thanks very much to all three of you. We appreciate it.

This gets a lot of conversations going as you can see here -- thanks to all of you.

All right. I just want to update everyone on breaking news that we have. We can now report in that Spain train crash the number of dead has risen. Now, 56 people have been confirmed dead, according to "Reuters", an official said that on local television. As we said, more than 200 injured. And the number of dead has been rising. Horribly, that number is now 56.

Still to come on this program, the family George Zimmerman rescued a week ago is expected to speak to the media today and they then cancelled the appearance at the last minute. Zimmerman's lawyer who was involved in it explains why.

Plus, the latest from the pope's visit to Brazil and why authorities have put security tonight at the highest level.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BURNETT: We are back with tonight's "Outer Circle", where we reach out to sources around the world.

Tonight, I want to go to Brazil. The security level there for Pope Francis's visit raised to a higher level. Authorities raised the security level after followers mobbed his vehicle.

Shasta Darlington is there for us and I asked her what police are trying to do to protect the pope since he always wants to able to touch the people.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SHASTA DARLINGTON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Erin, Pope Francis is back on the move. Today, he visited the country's most important shrine dedicated to our Lady of Aparecida, also known as Black Mary. He had a message of optimism. He said Christians cannot afford to be pessimists. He also, of course, drove around in his open backed pope mobile with thousands of followers trying to reach to him and this on a day when Brazil raised the security level of this visit to high from medium.

Now, there isn't a whole lot they can do to rein in this pope, but they can put more people on the ground to try and secure him, Erin. (END VIDEO CLIP)

BURNETT: Thank you, Shasta.

And now, our fifth story OUTFRONT: can George Zimmerman redeem himself?

Since he was acquitted of murder, he has laid low, except for last Wednesday when he helped rescue a family from an overturned car. But that turned into a big imbroglio. The family was supposed to speak this afternoon at a press conference, which happened to be, happened to be the office of Zimmerman's attorneys but they cancelled that public appearance.

Just last hour, Zimmerman's attorney, Mark O'Mara, explained why.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARK O'MARA, GEORGE ZIMMERMAN'S ATTORNEY: The frustration I had that the family who really wanted to thank George for doing what he did publicly in talking to other people, family members and friends realize that in any way connecting yourself with George Zimmerman is right now very toxic.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BURNETT: Will Zimmerman remain toxic or can redeem himself?

OUTFRONT tonight, Michael Medved, Stephanie Miller and Dean Obeidallah.

OK, wonderful to have all of you.

Stephanie, can he redeem himself?

STEPHANIE MILLER, RADIO HOST: I don't know. So we're supposed to go it's OK you murdered an unarm teenager now? I am sorry, Erin, maybe I'm one to call B.S. on this story. So these people didn't show up? Is he someone that calls 911 relentlessly? Like, is he going to he calling for beer and cigarettes because he's lonely some day and they're just going to have to go George, please stop calling 911?

Like, I don't even really understand the story. I think that he killed an unarmed teenager, and he violated the neighborhood watch -- you know, it says it right there, you're not supported to get involved. Just call the police and don't do anything. He not only didn't flee a dangerous situation, he created the dangerous situation.

BURNETT: So he --

MILLER: So whatever else he just did, I don't really care.

BURNETT: All right. So not redeemable.

Dean? DEAN OBEIDALLAH, COMEDIAN: I think there is an assumption and I've questioned this. I don't think overwhelmingly Americans look at him as a horrible guy. He's not bin Laden, he's not Donald Trump, some of the horrible people that I don't like at all.

MICHAEL MEDVED, RADIO HOST: He's not Anthony Weiner.

OBEIDALLAH: A "Washington Post" poll yesterday, Medved, showed 51 percent of white people agree with the verdict, including 70 percent of white Republicans. So, it's a matter of time you see Zimmerman having a show on FOX like a Zimmerman report or something.

BURNETT: Wow.

OBEIDALLAH: You know what? He's not seen as a despicable person. They look at a guy who has a God-given right to self-defense. That's how 70 percent of white Republicans view him.

BURNETT: All right. Although I will say, when you say redeem, you want it to be more broad than that group.

But, Michael, let me ask you this, because, you know, Jay-Z, the rapper, close friend of the president, everybody knows who this guy is, one of the most powerful and influential people in the country, in culture. He posted an interview where he shared his thoughts about Zimmerman, he said some really harsh stuff that could influence people. I wanted to play it for you.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JAY-Z, MUSICIAN: This guy is not a professional to profile someone. Professionals are taught not to profile. A police officer --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Law enforcement.

JAY-Z: Professional law enforcement officer, and I'm taught not to profile. This guy is a novice. This guy is a (EXPLETIVE DELETED) mall cop.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BURNETT: That's a pretty awful thing to say for people who take a lot of pride in that job, Michael?

MEDVED: It is. And, look, George Zimmerman is 29 years old. He has a young family. What he needs is basically to lie low. I think his instincts are exactly right here. He didn't try to get public attention for the fact that he and a friend were driving by and they helped these people out of an overturned vehicle. It was just something he did.

What he really should do is not look like he's trying for redemption, lead normal life, let time work it's magic. The truth is, this is somebody accused of a serious crime.

BURNETT: Yes.

MEDVED: He was acquitted. Now, if you lead a normal life and become a solid citizen, don't write a book. That would be the biggest mistake he could possibly make because, first of all, it would invite a lawsuit to attach earnings and secondly, because then it would look like he was trying to pose some kind of hero.

BURNETT: To capitalize.

MEDVED: He needs to lead a normal life.

BURNETT: All right. Well, thanks very much to all of you and let us know what you think. Can he redeem himself in the eyes of everyone, including people like Jay-Z?

OUTFRONT next, the end of Jay Carney?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BURNETT: Every night, we like to take a look outside the day's top stories for what we call the OUTFRONT Outtake.

Tonight, it's the White House press briefing. A daily event which is suppose to deliver information to the media and I emphasize the word "suppose to", because the press doesn't think they are getting much information anymore.

Reed Charlin (ph) wrote in "The New Republic" complaining, it's become nothing more than a charade and it might be time to end the White House press briefing altogether.

I'm not sure I feel about that, because you know what? I will miss (ph) Jay Carney too much. Every day, the White House press secretary deflects reporter's questions like a hockey goalie. According to a Yahoo study, Carney has successfully deflected 10,000 questions since taking over as press secretary in 2011. That is 4,000 questions as year and to give you some context, that is twice as many as the NHL single season save record.

Jay Carney is the best goalie of all time. I hate to think the media's time is being wasted every day but it's a small price to pay to see deflections like this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REPORTER: Can you describe a little bit about the damage it's caused?

JAY CARNEY, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: I think I would refer you to statements by the director of national intelligence.

I would have to refer to the Department of Health and Human Services.

I would refer you to ODNI.

I would refer you to the Treasury Department.

I would refer you to Justice. I would refer you to Justice. I would refer you to the Justice Department. I would refer you to the Department of Justice. I would refer you to the Department of Justice and the FBI.

I would refer you to the FBI. I would refer you to the FBI. I would refer you to the FBI, Secret Service and the Capitol Police.

I would refer you to the Secret Service.

I'd refer to the E.U. I would refer you to the Chinese.

(END VIDEO CLIPS)

BURNETT: To the Chinese, Jay?

Thanks so much for watching. We'll see you back here tomorrow. "A.C. 360" starts now. Wolf Blitzer is in for Anderson.