Return to Transcripts main page
Erin Burnett Outfront
Snowden To CNN: Return To U.S. "Not Possible"; Report: NSA Spying Program Illegal; Police: Girl Kills Sister, Felt "Unappreciated"; Real-Life "Goodfellas" Arrested In Mob Bust; Bieber Busted for DUI, Resisting Arrest
Aired January 23, 2014 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: Next, is Edward Snowden coming home? The Obama administration says there is a way, but will the NSA leaker play along? Hear what he told our very own Jake Tapper.
Plus, what was it that set Richard Sherman off during the NFC championship game? We have the audio of what he said during the game.
Justin Bieber busted for drag racing and DUI. Is he the new thug on the block? Let's go OUTFRONT.
Good evening, everyone. Thanks for joining us. I'm Don Lemon in for Erin Burnett. Tonight breaking news, Edward Snowden tells our very own Jake Tapper he will not return to the U.S. because it's not possible for him to have a fair trial. That's after the Attorney General Eric Holder said the U.S. is willing to discuss Snowden's return to the country, if he pleads guilty first.
CNN's Jake Tapper had an exchange with Snowden today and joins me now live from Washington. Jake, what did he have to say?
JAKE TAPPER, CNN CHIEF WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Well, what I wanted to know was because the attorney general had suggested earlier in the day that if Snowden pleaded guilty, the government would be willing to talk to his attorneys about figuring out how to bring him back to the U.S.
I wondered how much that was something that Snowden would entertain. I asked him to respond to that and I asked him under what conditions would he return. He wrote back to me in this online chat he was having, returning to the U.S., I think, is the best resolution for the government, the public and myself.
But it's unfortunately not possible in the face of current whistle blower protection laws, which through a failure in law did not cover national security contractors like me. His larger argument being that he was doing something in the public good and the law that he is being prosecuted under is more than 100 years old and nothing written in for somebody like him.
Unless, of course, the Congress were to act and change the law, he doesn't think he'll be coming back to the United States any time soon. So, not possible is what he said -- Don.
LEMON: All right, so, the obvious question. What are the chances, Jake, the White House gives any ground on this issue?
TAPPER: I think when it comes to clemency or a pardon that is off the table, in terms of some sort of negotiation, I think it's possible, but not very likely! In order for Snowden to have a public trial, the government would have to be willing to allow a lot of things that they don't want to talk about be discussed in open court.
So, I find it very unlikely, although, you never know. It's still unclear how much more Snowden has in terms of documents. Maybe at some point they would rather have control over the documents and they would rather exchange some punishment for him no longer releasing any more, but, we'll see. Generally speaking, I don't think it's possible for them to change.
LEMON: Jake Tapper reporting from Washington. Jake, thank you very much.
Another blow to the Obama administration spying program, an independent oversight board today concluded the NSA's ball collection of data is illegal and should end. What could be more damaging? The board also said that the agency's bulk phone data collection program has been largely useless in thwarting terrorism. Tom Foreman has all the details for you.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Illegal, ineffective and unnecessary, that is essentially what the five-member privacy and civil liberties oversight board said about the National Security Agency's collection of phone data from millions of Americans. Jim Dempsey, a member of the government-appointed board voted for the blistering report.
JIM DEMPSEY, PRIVACY AND CIVIL LIBERTIES OVERSIGHT BOARD: We have never once found evidence of a plot. Never once identified an unknown terrorist plotting is attacks on the homeland or anywhere else. One time we found a guy who was raising money for the El-Shabaab terrorist group, which is a serious crime --
FOREMAN (on camera): That is it?
DEMPSEY: A, that's it. B, the FBI was probably circling around had him already and would have come across him anyhow.
FOREMAN (voice-over): Ever since Edward Snowden leaked information about the NSA program, the White House has been on defence calling it a critical tool for tracking terrorists.
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: We cannot unilaterally disarm our intelligence agencies.
FOREMAN: For the most part, courts have so far supported the administration, but the report says the program infringes on basic privacy and is wide open to abuse by agencies seeking to spy on Americans for other reasons. The ink was hardly dry before the White House hit back again. JAY CARNEY, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: We simply disagree with the board's analysis on the legality of the program.
FOREMAN: Even two members of the board issuing the report do not agree with it. Rachel Brand says the vast collection of numbers with no names attached is hardly fertile ground for a fictional government fishing trip.
RACHEL BRAND, PRIVACY AND CIVIL LIBERTIES OVERSIGHT BOARD: So in light of that and how difficult it is for the government to look at the data, once it's collected, I think the intrusion on privacy and trust is small.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
FOREMAN: This committee has no real power, but this report, nonetheless, has created uproar here in D.C., Don. If only because it provides more ammunition for those who do have real power and who really want to see this program shut down.
LEMON: Tom Foreman, thank you very much.
Joining me now, Jesselyn Radack is a legal adviser to former NSA contractor, Edward Snowden, and Jeffrey Toobin is CNN's senior legal analyst. Jeff to you first, the board said it identified only one instance in which the program helped authorities identify a terrorist in the last seven years. But the board also said officials would have found the suspect even without the NSA program. Did the board make the right call here in saying the program should be shut down?
JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: Well, we have a real division of feeling on this among the people who have looked at it. Two judges have evaluated the program. One said it's constitutional. One said it's unconstitutional. This board broke 3 to 2 in favour of an unconstitutional ruling. It's obviously a legally close question, but you know, three branches of government have approved this in the past, the executive, the Congress and the judiciary.
LEMON: It's hard to keep tabs on. It's like. You mean the program? The program and exactly what's going on is it constitutional? Not constitutional?
TOOBIN: It's obviously, very much up in the air. Plus, you have President Obama saying he wants to change it in some profound way moving the data to some third party. But that hasn't been done yet. It hasn't been specified where he wants to put the data. A lot of moving targets here.
LEMON: Jesselyn, should the Obama administration listen to the board?
JESSELYN RADACK, LEGAL ADVISOR TO FORMER NSA CONTRACTOR EDWARD SNOWDEN: I think they should. In fact, I don't think this is a close question. I differ with Mr. Toobin on this. A federal judge found it's likely unconstitutional. The president's own White House internal review panel found that it was ineffective and, also, broke the law, and had caught no terrorists or thwarted any terrorist plans. Also, now today, the privacy and civil liberties oversight board, again, reached the same conclusion. That this program was illegal and had not stopped any terrorists plots. We have one judge, who differs, but the balance is clearly on the side of the revelations Mr. Snowden made and the president even agrees with Mr. Snowden that mass surveillance does violate people's privacy. He said that in his speech.
LEMON: I have a question for you. Let's just say that it did thwart a terrorist attack. Might we be sitting here going thank goodness for that program? Because it hasn't caught one --
TOOBIN: In fairness to, you know, the opposing side, you know, the fact that it hasn't caught one, at least according to some of the people who looked at it is a fact is against it. But, you know, the question remains, you know, how are we going to monitor the would-be terrorists in a world where terrorists use G-mail, terrorists use text messages. This is not a fictional threat. This is an actual threat that we face and the NSA's response seems to me a reasonable one.
LEMON: Let me remind you of something. We heard Jake Tapper say just a couple minutes ago reporting he was in an online forum today and he said returning to the United States, I think it is best resolution for the government, the public and myself, but it's unfortunately not possible in the face of current whistle blower protection laws, which through a failure in law, did not cover national security contractors like myself. He's talking about his exchange with Edward Snowden today. Should he return to the U.S. to face trial?
TOOBIN: Yes, he should. He broke the law and should be tried. The thing that is so odd about this statement is that even if contractors were covered by whistle blower protections, they're not allowed to give it away and simply give it to journalists and then go to China and then go to Russia. They're supposed to go through certain channels. So, even if the law covered him, that would not be a protection for what he did.
LEMON: Same question to you, should he return to the U.S.? Better question, do you see a point in the future where Snowden does return to the U.S.?
RADACK: Yes, if he is pardoned or granted amnesty, which is requested by the future deputy director of the NSA and editorial boards of the "New York Times" and "Guardian" and by tech industry giants who all suggested amnesty or pardoned. He would be tried under the espionage act, which has no whistle blower defense, no public policy defense and, in fact, a 1917 law meant to go after spies, not whistle blowers.
As for the channel's argument, Mr. Toobin knows full well that another NSA employee, Thomas Drake, did go through every conceivable proper channel, his boss, the inspector general, both Houses of Congress and not only did he get no re-dress he ended up being prosecuted for espionage. So, no, Mr. Snowden would not come back to be tried under a law, which would provide only a show trial and not allow him a defense. TOOBIN: Well, certainly, this seems to be an option for negotiation that might go on to what he might plead to if he comes back. I understand why he wouldn't want to plead in violation to the espionage act. But the Justice Department's opening the door to some sort of lesser plea but --
RADACK: They know how to contact me.
LEMON: Well, Mr. Toobin and Ms. Radack, thank you very much. We appreciate you joining us tonight.
Still to come, a shocking story out of Illinois, an 11-year-old girl stabbed 40 times. That's right, 11-year-old girl stabbed 40 times. Police first thought it was an intruder, but now believe it was the girl's own sister.
Plus, one of the most famous heists in American history, how the feds finally caught up with these good fellows.
And Bieber busted, was it too late or just in time?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: Tonight our look at kids in crisis, police say a 14-year-old girl grabbed a kitchen knife and went into her 11-year-old half- sister's bedroom and stabbed her 40 times, ultimately killing her. It is a shocking story, but what's even more disturbing when she finally confessed to police, she said it was because her sister wasn't appreciative enough of her. Ted Rowlands has the story.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
TED ROWLANDS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): A small bouquet of flowers sits outside the front door of the townhouse where police say an 11-year-old girl was stabbed more than 30 times by her 14-year-old sister. A story so awful it's left many people in the Chicago suburb of Mundelein in shock.
MAYOR STEVE LENTZ, MUNDELEIN, ILLINOIS: Please pray for us. This is quite a tragedy. Just pray for the family.
ROWLANDS: According to prosecutors, the 14-year-old initially lied calling 911 saying an intruder attacked her sister and fled, but when questioned by police, her story changed. Authorities say she confessed to using a kitchen knife to stab her sister to dead in bed Tuesday morning. The 14-year-old allegedly told investigators she was angry that her little sister didn't appreciate that she had been taking care of her including cooking her meals. Prosecutors say the teen showered to wash off the blood and then called police. At this point, the 14-year-old is being treated as a juvenile, but that may change.
MICHAEL NERHEIM, LAKE COUNTY STATES ATTORNEY: We will continue to gather the reports, gather the information and in the relatively near future, we will make a determination in terms of whether we are going to ask to seek to have this case transferred to adult court. ROWLANDS: It's unclear to what extent the 14-year-old had to care for her little sister. Their mother is a single parent who worked a lot, according to neighbors we talked to.
MATTHEW MCCOY, NEIGHBOR: They seemed like a loving family. The kids were always playing together. I never saw any signs of fighting or yelling or screaming. I would see them every Sunday going to church.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ROWLANDS: And the Illinois Department of Children and Family Services has launched an investigation to see exactly what conditions these children were living in. Don, according to "Chicago Tribune" reporter who was at a juvenile hearing yesterday, the 14-year-old was stoic until prosecutors started to describe the murder to the judge. At that point she broke down. Just a horrible, horrible story.
LEMON: It certainly is. Thank you, Ted Rowlands. Appreciate that.
We're going to delve in a little bit deeper tonight with clinical psychologist, Dr. Jeff Gardere. He is an assistant professor at Torum Medical School. So, she kills her sister, takes a shower, washes the blood off, calls police and then makes up a story about an intruder. What does this tell you about the mind of the young girl?
DR. JEFF GARDERE, CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: Well, evidently, she was thinking about this. And as a matter of fact, she said, Don, that she thought about it for 15 minutes before this thing happened. We see some premeditation, but she was too calm and too cold it seems after this happened to be able to tell these lies to be able to try to cover up the murder scene.
LEMON: Its premeditation and then a cover up, right. That doesn't bode well for her. The teen, they said that neighbors said that they seem to be very close. The sister and the teen, so, what is going on here, what is happening here?
GARDERE: Perhaps they were very close. I believe that, but it seems this young woman is emotionally disturbed. This isn't something that happens in a vacuum and they really should have some sort of a mental health evaluation, which I'm sure will happen. But she could have been rageful, not just at her sister, but as you're saying here, probably at the mother because it seems like the mother may not be around enough and this young, 14-year-old girl, had to do a lot of the work in the home.
LEMON: Before we talk about the parents a little bit more, what about a personality disorder in this particular case?
GARDERE: And this is, of course, haven't examined her, but this is what I'm thinking of because there's the emotional disconnect to stab your sister so many times, of course, or even stab your sister. Secondly, the rage, and then, of course, what we're talking about, covering up the murder scene. These things, again, don't happen in a vacuum. I'm sure as we get more of the back story, we'll find out that this may have been an emerging personality disorder. A lot of it here, no impulse control.
LEMON: A 14-year-old taking care of a child, maybe a lesson to parents.
GARDERE: No pun intended but super overkill here, which says that she was the wrong person to have this happen to as far as acting out in this way.
LEMON: Thank you, Doctor.
GARDERE: Thank you.
LEMON: Still to come, it's like something out of a mob movie because it was, 36 years later, police finally make arrests in the good fellas heist.
Plus we know what Richard Sherman said after the game. Now we're hearing what he said during the game.
The craziest video you'll ever see all day today, a car slides over two people and mow somehow they survive.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: Tonight, a break in a nearly four-decade old robbery case, one of the largest in U.S. history. In an early morning raid the FBI arrested five members of a crime family allegedly behind the massive Lufthansa heist at Kennedy Airport here in New York 36 years ago. A band of robbers stole about $5 million in cash and nearly $1 million in jewelry from a Lufthansa jet. The story has been immortalized in Martin Scorsese's mob classic "Goodfellas."
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Nobody knows for sure just how much was taken in the daring predawn raid at the Lufthansa terminal at the airport. Port authority police say $4 million. The city cops say $5 million. From the scene of the heist at JFK, it looks like a big one may be the biggest this town has ever seen.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: One of my favorite movies ever. Joining me now is Murray Weiss. He is a criminal justice editor at dnainfo.com. This is an infamous case in American criminal history, but it happened back in 1978. Why did it take so long to get to the bottom of this?
MURRAY WEISS, CRIMINAL JUSTICE EDITOR, DNAINFO.COM: Well, the short version is that in recent years the FBI has got themselves some new informants in the crime family and they turned on their fellow members and started wearing wiretaps. On the taps, actually, they have Vincent discussing the Lufthansa case and his role in it and discussions about a murder committed in 1969. That murder involved Jimmy "The Gent" Burke who was played by Bob Dinaro in the movie. Last summer the FBI started digging in the house and found some of his remains. That's what led, fundamentally, to this indictment. LEMON: Organized crimes like that anymore or has it changed since the "Goodfellas" days?
WEISS: Armored car heists and gambling and all the traditional things are still there. But the wild times of organized crime of that era are gone. The control over all the construction trades, the labor union, teamsters and every yard of concrete that was poured in New York the government got attacks on. The government has driven the mob stranglehold out of unions and industry away, but still here and very powerful.
LEMON: From 1978 until now, 2014, they're just figuring it out. Thank you, Murray Weiss. We appreciate it.
WEISS: Pleasure.
LEMON: Still to come, new details about Justin Bieber. What the pop singer told police he was doing right before being arrested.
And then George Zimmerman isn't done with the art world yet. His last piece sold for more than $100,000. Will his new painting go for more?
Breaking news, whiteout conditions cause a massive and deadly pileup on an Indiana highway.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: Welcome back to the second half of OUTFRONT. First breaking news, a deadly pileup in Indiana, state police just told us that three people are now dead from a massive crash on I-94, 35 miles west of South Bend. One person also has life threatening injuries. Whiteout conditions may have been a factor. Heavy to moderate snow has been falling and has reduced visibility.
As you can see, several semi-trucks are involved. State police say the interstate is impassable at this time. Traffic is being diverted in the area and we are going to keep you updated on the developments as we get them here in CNN.
A fire has destroyed an apartment complex for the elderly in a small Quebec town. Three people are dead and 30 others are missing. The fire was still burning several hours after it started. A witness told CBC News he could hear screams coming from inside, but what's left of the building has been too hot and too dangerous to search. Officials say weather conditions have made the situation more difficult. Earlier windchills made it feel like it was 20 below zero.
Since he was acquitted, George Zimmerman said he has turned to painting to express his emotions and experiences. In a new piece, he mocks Angela Cory, the prosecutor who charged him with the murder of Trayvon Martin. Zimmerman depicts her with her fingers pinched and a caption that reads, "I have this much respect for the American judicial system. Angie C." It was inspired by the photo of Cory take when she announced the charges.
Last month, the former neighborhood watchman sold a painting of an American flag for more than $100,000.
Shocking video that may be disturbing for some to watch, but we promise you, this story has a good ending. A 5-year-old boy and his grandmother were walking down a street in Brazil when a car ahead of them was hit head on by another vehicle, forcing it to plow right on to them and over them as you can see right here.
The boy's head seemed to get caught under the tire and miraculously pops right up to check on his grandmother. Can you believe that?
Happy to say both are OK. They both left the hospital with only minor injuries. Wow.
Two thumbs up for that little tike as he was doing there in the video.
OK, let's move on. Tonight's money and power, life in the fast lane came to a screeching halt for Justin Bieber today. The 19-year-old pop star was arrested for drag racing and driving under the influence in Miami Beach this morning.
According to police, the arresting officer immediately smelled a, quote, "odor of alcohol and saw blood shot eyes" when he pulled Bieber over in a yellow Lamborghini.
Bieber allegedly dropped several F-bombs during the incident, saying, why the F are you doing this? And, what the F did I do?
So, now he knows what it really feels like.
Appearing before a Florida judge, Bieber charged with DUI, resisting arrest and driving with an expired license. He was then released on a $2,500 bond and met by his fans who waited to catch a glimpse of the wannabe bad boy.
Really?
Joining me now is Jim Moret, the chief correspondent for "Inside Edition", and Katrina Szish, she is, entertainment journalist and former child star. Barry Williams joins us, better known as Greg Brady. And actor Corey Feldman is on the phone.
How are you guys doing tonight.
First, I'll ask you this, Jim, really, a yellow Lamborghini. If that's not a cry for help, what is?
JIM MORET, INSIDE EDITION: What else are you going to rent in Florida? His friend was renting a Ferrari.
Did you see when he waved to his friends? It really reminded me of Michael Jackson at that molestation trial at Santa Maria when he did that same stunt. Except, he danced for his fans.
Look, I don't know. I'm not shocked. We have been covering Bieber every week it seems for the past several months. LEMON: Yes. You know, Bieber reportedly admitted to drinking before his arrest, smoking marijuana, taking prescription drugs, right? So, when police searched him he said, "I don't have no F'ing weapons. Why do you have to search me? What the F is this about?"
Is this Justin Bieber solidifying his image as a bad boy, do you think, Katrina?
KATRINA SZISH, ENTERTAINMENT JOURNALIST: I think, absolutely. I mean, he has been, as you pointed out, a wannabe bad boy for so long. He has been trying to break that bubble gum pop star bubble.
And I think he's officially done it. He has been hanging out with the wrong crowd and now his first arrest ever he might have gotten some sort of street cred. But we'll see what it has to do for his career.
LEMON: To get credibility you need to be arrested? And people are actually calling him a thug. Is this what you need to do to get some credibility?
SZISH: It's unfortunate, but you think of someone like Miley Cyrus. You almost have to shock in order to get people to pay attention to you.
LEMON: All right, I understand what you're saying, but at least Miley is not getting arrested and not becoming a thugette, whatever you want to call it.
SZISH: Yes, right, not yet. I'm just kidding. But there has been a lot of pot smoking allegations with Miley Cyrus. This is the kind of thing where you're trying to break that good girl or wannabe bad boy image. And you do it, you have to do something edgy.
COREY FELDMAN, ACTOR (via telephone): Can I jump in here?
LEMON: Corey is in traffic, so we know he's not speeding because he can't make it to the studio.
But, Corey, y wrote a book about the perils of childhood stardom, right?
FELDMAN: Yes, it's called "Coreyography", it's a best seller on the shelves now, and I think kind of exemplifies everything we're talking about here today.
But I just want to say this part because I have been that guy. I have been through it. I was 18 turning 19 when I was arrested in Los Angeles and I can tell you this much. He is not thinking any of those things. I can tell you that right now.
He's not trying to be a bad boy. He's out there trying to prove himself. He's literally, being a kid growing up and going through growing up issues which we all deal with, which is change of identity, trying to see where you're at with puberty, if girls like you, what you're doing in the world, where you're going to end up as an adult. All that stuff that we all go through, that's what this kid is going through.
LEMON: I don't know -- Corey, I'm not sure that I buy that. I think that this may be some orchestrated event by him. I think it could be some sort of branding thing where he's trying --
FELDMAN: No way, no way.
LEMON: I think he's trying to become the next, what is his name, Eight-Mile, Eminem and trying to become the next like thug, white thug rapper.
FELDMAN: Totally disagree. I'm sorry, but I've got to disagree with you. I think he's a kid and he's making kid mistakes and we all do them. And the only difference is, when you're a celebrity, it's under a spotlight and everybody is looking at it.
LEMON: But, Barry, Cory is saying this is a kid with kid mistakes. Allegedly his dad was there with him. His mom wrote a book about him. He is 19 years old. His parents can still control him, ala, what's her name? Britney Spears and getting control of his estate.
If his parents are out there, they're just as bad as he is, by allowing him to do this.
BARRY WILLIAMS, CHILD STAR: Well, I don't know, I don't know what their involvement exactly was with that. I don't know if they're agreeing with it or not reigning him in. But a big difference between trying to change your image and trying to become a, quote, "bad boy" -- if that's what he's trying to do and doing it with the shocking action, than breaking the law or putting people in danger. If he's drag racing, he's on public streets and then he's putting other people in danger. You don't need to break the law in order to sort of get your cred.
LEMON: I want Jim to get in. Katrina, I'll let you respond to this.
Just last week, police searched his California mansion after his neighbor accused of attacking the homes with egg, right? It was like $20,000 to $40,000 worth of damage. A friend of Bieber's was arrested for having drugs in the house. The popular Web site "The Root" is calling Justin Bieber a teen thug. Teen thug Justin Bieber arrested in Miami.
Do you agree with this?
MORET: I think that's the image. Look, look at the stories about Justin Bieber in the last few months. One neighbor alleged that he spit on him. Another neighbor said he's racing up and down his neighborhood at 100 miles per hour in his own Ferrari. Another said he threw eggs at his house.
He's doing thuggish behavior trying to get attention. Just last few days he was reportedly at a nightclub and he had $75,000 in $1 bills at a strip club. You know, that's the image he's trying to portray for whatever reason. But to us it looks like he's spiraling out of control. I understand what Corey Feldman is saying, but I think this young kid has a lot of money, a lot of enablers and he's going down fast.
LEMON: Yes.
FELDMAN: Exactly. That's what it is about. This is beyond his control. This is not manipulated. This is not --
LEMON: No, no, no, Corey. That's not right. How's -- it's not beyond his control.
He's 19 years old. We keep calling a kid. He is 19-year-old young man.
What do you mean it is beyond his control? He has more and you're saying this is normal teen? I disagree with you that this is normal teen action. This is not normal teen actions. Most normal teenagers are not in a club -- hang one, Corey -- most normal teenagers are not in a club with $75,000. They're not taking a Lamborghini and running it down the street. The parents are not involved in this. They're not egging their neighbors' homes. They do that when they're 12 years old.
Go ahead, Corey.
FELDMAN: No, no, not that he's a teen -- he's not your average teenager. He's a guy with millions of dollars. He is a guy that can drive a Ferrari. He's a guy that got access to $75,000. Normal kids don't have that.
LEMON: That's not an excuse, though, Cory.
FELDMAN: But, emotionally, he's probably coming from a messed up family and lee doesn't get the love that he needs and nobody is sitting him down and saying, you have to pull your life together. He has a bunch of yes men around him.
LEMON: Sound like you're making excuses for him. Katrina, am I right?
SZISH: Well, yes, I think it does some like -- there are some excuses being made. But the point is, if this is a kid, obviously, who has millions of dollars, 19-year-old, he has family around him and enablers as we said.
But, also, I do think there is something about being a celebrity where you just think, nobody is going to say no to me. You can speak to this, but reportedly earlier in my Miami, he had gotten a police escort. He and his entourage got a police escort going back and forth to strip clubs.
So, one night, you're kind of given exceptions and the next night you're being searched. I think maybe that could be confusing to someone who we're calling a kid. Not like he should be doing this in the first place or allowed to do this in the first place. He is in a unique situation that most of us cannot relate to.
LEMON: So, what should happen to him, Corey? What should people around him be doing?
FELDMAN: I think right now he needs to get a new support team around him. He needs to get some people when are in the AA world who are sober, who've got their lives together, who are going to guide him and help him by saying, no, by saying you can't have the Lamborghini to drive around because you just got a DUI. You can't have $75,000 cash. You're going to be put in an allowance and you need to go to a rehab.
Those are things he needs to do right now. He needs to get his life focused and get his life in order and stop trying to be the bad boy, if that's what it is. I honestly don't believe that.
LEMON: OK. So, Barry, listen, if you look at the mug shots. You know, he's smiling. But if you look at Justin Bieber eyes, he doesn't appear to be happy. It seemed to be a sad clown, if you look at the mug shots.
WIILLIAMS: I think he's in a stage in his life where he feels invincible and he wants to test all the rules and push all the limits. And he has the wherewithal to do it. I think he will find out as many former child stars have come to find out that the law has way of slapping you aback in the face that is a true wake-up call.
The games are over. If you're not doing, if you're not trying to change your image without hurting people and without breaking the law, and you're running a huge, huge risk with the rest of your life.
LEMON: Yes. Jim Moret, how often have you and I talked about this with other child stars with Chris Brown, with Michael Jackson even, with Whitney Houston. You see the behavior spiraling out of control. We talk about it and it becomes the news.
Everyone wants to watch it and then all of a sudden you go, this person is no longer with us or this person is in jail for a long time and we saw it coming, but what did we do? What did the people around them do?
MORET: Don, I have been a lawyer for over 30 years, a reporter for over 25. I never thought I would take legal reporting and it'd be an industry like it is now, where we're talking about celebrities in particular, getting into trouble over and over. And people around them knowing that something bad is about to happen and no one is saying anything. Except those of us on the sidelines saying, look what's about to happen and nobody listens.
LEMON: Yes. You know what, Barry, I have been wanting to do this since I was a kid, to have you on a television show, in the boxes like this and then look up and then over at everyone. And figure out. Here's the story --
(LAUGHTER)
LEMON: You got to love it. You're a good sport, Greg Brady. Thank you, Barry.
Thank you, Jim. Thank you, Katrina. And thank you, Corey.
Corey, no speeding. Get to your destination safe and sound.
FELDMAN: No, no, my destination was there. So, I guess I can go home now. But don't forget to watch my new live talk show next Tuesday and I'll be talking all about this issue.
LEMON: What is your book, again, Corey?
FELDMAN: "Coreyography." Thank you.
LEMON: Thank you, Corey. I appreciated the conversation.
All right, guys. Have a good one.
Still to come, more on Bieber's trouble, believe it or not. Jeanne Moos looks at some of the strangest reactions to the Bieber's bust.
And the sports world still raging about Richard Sherman's post-game rant. But what did the Seahawks cornerback say during the game? New audio and we'll play it for you, next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: We always look forward to top of the hour, 8:00 p.m. Eastern. That's when Anderson comes on.
What do you have for us, Anderson?
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: Yes. Hey, Don.
I have tonight on the program, we have breaking news in the story that we've been following. A young man mysteriously found dead. Authorities say he died from a drug overdose but his family believes he was murdered. Now, because of Deb Feyerick's reporting, there could be a major turn in this case. We'll tell you what it is.
Also, the latest on a brain dead mother in Texas. Her family wants her taken off life support. The hospital is refusing because she's pregnant. A hearing is scheduled for tomorrow. Tonight, we have new details and the judge who will hear the case. Plus, who will pay for her medical care. We'll take a look at that.
And new details in a murder mystery in southern California. A young woman killed along with her fiance's brother. Her fiance is missing, leading to look into reports of a love triangle. Tonight, a break in the case that raises even more questions.
Those stories and tonight's "Ridiculist," a lot more at the top of hour -- Don.
LEMON: All right. See you soon. Thank you, Anderson.
Tonight, we're hearing for the very first time what was said in the moments before Richard Sherman went off on his opponent Michael Crabtree in one of the most famous post-game rants in history. Here's the exchange just seconds after Sherman deflected a pass to help win the game for his Seattle Seahawks.
(VIDEO CLIP PLAYS)
LEMON: Sherman says it was a shove to the face that sparked the outburst. I saw that the other night, though. But Denver Broncos quarterback Peyton Manning decided not to comment on the exchange this afternoon.
But NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell told "CBS This Morning" he was not a fan.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ROGER GOODELL, NFL COMMISSIONER: He is such a great, young man. He is extremely well-spoken and does great things off the field and great player on the field. I want him to present himself in the best possible way and make sure that he is reflecting on himself and his family in a positive way and he took a little bit away from the team. That's what he said yesterday and I think that was a very interesting comment and I think that's fair.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Yes, I disagree with that.
I am joined now by sports commentator Lewis Johnson and comedian and co-host and talk show host, Sheryl Underwood.
You're looking good tonight, girl.
But my first, my first question is going to go to Lewis.
You said that Sherman should have managed the moment better after seeing this video. Did you change your opinion of that?
LEWIS JOHNSON, SPORTS COMMENTATOR: I think we caught him still in that moment of really sportsmanship rage, which is where he has to be to be able to compete on that field. And, you know, they have the ten-minute cooling down period in the locker room for a reason, so guys can relax and get themselves together, then allow the media to come in. But if you're one of those stars that makes the big play, he wasn't really ready to articulate and explain what the play was all about and he got caught in that ugly moment.
I mean, it was great to hear the energy and the excitement. And, listen, Don, I hold the microphone all the time and get so tired of cliches, but --
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: I hate for people to pretend something that they are not.
JOHNSON: Right. (CROSSTALK)
LEMON: That is who he is. And, stop trying to train away the authenticity. Train away who people are. That's what people love.
Roger Goodell could say whatever he wants, about, oh, well -- who cares about that? That is who that guy is. And if you saw the guy push him, he should have, he got him. He's like I got the mike and I won. So, the hell with you.
I think he was right on.
Sheryl Underwood, I'm sorry, I'm going off and I'm acting like Sherman out here.
But listen the word "thug" has been thrown around a lot. I started talking about the word thug before this even happened with that little baby in Omaha last week or the week before we started talking about this word, we examined it.
But has this word "thug" become just a convenient code word when some don't want to use the N-word? I want you to listen to this and then I'll get your reaction.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RICHARD SHERMAN, NFL PLAYER: It seems like it's the accepted way of calling about n word nowadays. What's the definition of a thug" really? You know, can a guy on the football field just talking to people -- you know, maybe talking loudly and talk like I'm not supposed. But I'm not -- you know, there's a hockey game where they didn't even play hockey. They just threw the puck aside and started fighting. I saw that and I said oh, man, I'm the thug? What's going on here? Geez!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Sheryl, what is it?
SHERYL UNDERWOOD, COMEDIAN: Well, I can tell you that I totally agree with what Sherman has to say. You know, incognito, crazy as a who, who for cocoa puffs, but nobody called him a thug when he said very derogatory things.
Here's a young man on the field. If he says hell of a game and extends his hand and get hit in the hand all that passion and aggression -- well, I'd like to see anytime bedroom because I love passion and aggression.
(LAUGHTER)
UNDERWOOD: I don't think that this young man has done anything wrong. Here is a Stanford graduate with a degree in communications. Two- parent home, mother and a father, Compton is a great place to live.
Just because he's black, you want to call him a thug? Which you might as well call him the N-word. But this boy going to take it all the way to the bank. He's smart. He's what sports is all about.
JOHNSON: Sheryl, I love you but this is where I disagree. I don't think the word "thug" and the N-word are as closely connected as you think they are. For me the word "thug" goes back to gangsters and killers of that nature, whether it'd be back in the old days or modern day Compton if you want to say where he's from.
(CROSSTALK)
JOHNSON: Bieber was called a thug at the top of the show. So, I don't think --
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: Hang on. There's a method to your madness.
JOHNSON: This young man is not a thug.
LEMON: Because maybe it's because the hip-hop community has co-opted that word now. And they want to be called thugs.
UNDERWOOD: That's about it, Don.
LEMON: But usually, you don't call white kids thugs. You say they're troubled, right? You don't call them thugs.
UNDERWOOD: That's right.
LEMON: You don't call hockey players thugs.
UNDERWOOD: That's right.
LEMON: You don't call John McEnroe a thug.
UNDERWOOD: That's right.
LEMON: You say, oh, my God, he's passionate. So, there is -- I don't think it is a racial term usually. But I think in this particular context, that's what people are in essence calling him.
UNDERWOOD: That's right.
LEMON: I want you to listen to this. Let's listen. Tomorrow, I'm going to be on "The Wendy Williams Show." We taped part of the segment today. I want to play a little bit of it and see what you guys think.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WENDY WILLIAMS, HOST, "THE WENDY WILLIAMS SHOW": I don't think the word "thug" is the new word for an N-word. If you're going to call somebody the N-word, you're just going to call it, especially, you know, when you can be an Internet gangster and say what you want.
LEMON: I've got to jump in here. I think for him, he is absolutely right. I think that's what people are calling him. JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HLN ANCHOR: It is a code word. It is a code word. The word "thug" was used hundreds of times after he had his little outburst and those were used by commentators directed at him. He didn't hit anybody, didn't kick anybody in the you-know-what.
SIGGY FLICKER, RELATIONSHIP EXPERT: I as a white woman do not affiliate the word "thug" with the N-word.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: So, Sheryl, you see 50 percent of the panel disagreed with what we said.
UNDERWOOD: Well, let me tell you something. I agree with what Sherman is saying. And I think what everybody's mad about is this young man could articulate himself one way on the field and one way off the field. All football players, I've dated enough football players to know -- I've been having sex with football players before pads and helmets. So, I know how football players are.
This young man is right. You called him a thug because you couldn't call him the N-word.
LEMON: Lewis --
JOHNSON: Sheryl, you are truly cuckoo for cocoa puffs.
(LAUGHTER)
JOHNSON: I'll just say this -- if you guys are correct and what athletes have to be prepared not to feed that monster, allow somebody else to call them a thug by handling themselves on the air. That comes with training.
UNDERWOOD: Wait a minute, why are you holding this man to a different standard? Why are you holding this man to a different standard?
JOHNSON: We all know the playing field is not fair. That's not new. That's not new. You got to operate under the situation you're in that's the deal, Sheryl.
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: Sheryl, I got to go. Cal State North Ridge, 7:00 p.m. when are you going to be there?
UNDERWOOD: Saturday, tomorrow, Saturday night, Cal State North Ridge. Everybody invited.
LEMON: See you there. Thank you, Beau. Appreciate it.
Still to come, how media covered the Justin Bieber bust. Jeanne Moos is next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: Fame, fortune and an army of fans. Yet, Justin Bieber's life has become a real drag. And the media certainly took notice.
Here's Jeanne Moos.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JEANNE MOOS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): In his orange jail jumpsuit, Justin Bieber faced the music. And we don't mean his own.
(MUSIC)
WHOOPI GOLDBERG, TV HOST: Baby, this is the biggest mistake you could make.
MOOS: At 19, his first mug shot. Anchors alternated between analyzing his expression.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He's smiling from ear to ear.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, I wouldn't be smiling if I were you, young Justin Drew Bieber.
MOOS: And analyzing his hair.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Look at that hair. I mean really.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: His hair looks spectacular.
MOOS: Reminiscent of young Frank Sinatra when he was arrested for adultery in 1938.
One joker tweeted, "The Justin Bieber mug shots are in and they're incredible."
The press wanted more than a mug shot. Photographers clung desperately to police station gates.
They rested their cameras on their heads, got yelled at by police.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hey. Get off the frigging car!
MOOS: They peered through jail house chain link fencing.
And when Bieber was freed they finally got a decent shot when he momentarily perched of ton of an SUV.
Remind you of anyone?
Say, Michael Jackson waving after pleading not guilty to charges of child molestation?
Bieber sped off, leaving photographers in his dust.
(on camera): And then there's the minor matter of how to refer to the pop star.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. We have to talk about Biebs. UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Police say the Biebs friends.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But he was apparently with the Biebs this morning.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. Bieber, you are charged with the following.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What's going on with Justin?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So, I would say Justin Timberlake, if he decides --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Bieber.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Justin Bieber. Please. I apologize Timberlake.
MOOS (voice-over): Online jokes like this circulated, caption photo of Justin Bieber being arrested. The arrest and mug shot will have the impersonators mugging. From "SNL" to Jimmy Fallon.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm Justin Bieber and I'm going to reflect for a minute in if that's cool with you.
MOOS: But will the real Justin Bieber reflect on his downward spiral? While we obsess about his hair or PhotoShop his makeup? At least his mug shot didn't look like Nick Nolte's.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What kind of volumizer that Justin Bieber uses in his hair. Because a lot of us go through great lengths to try to get that sort of height.
MOOS: Height? Seems like a new low.
Jeanne Moos, CNN, New York.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
LEMON: Poor Biebs.
"AC360" starts right now.
