Return to Transcripts main page
Erin Burnett Outfront
Protesters Fighting "Religious Protection" Bill; Jamie Sale: "Never Make Excuses"; Girl Scout Sells Cookies To Pot Patients; Nugent Apologizes for Obama Comment
Aired February 21, 2014 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST: Next, breaking news, growing protest in Arizona at this hour over a bill that some say legalizes discrimination against gays and lesbians. We are live in Phoenix tonight.
Ted Nugent has a message for President Obama, did he really apologize for calling him a subhuman mongrel?
The munchies, a girl scout sells cookies outside of a pot store, making big bucks. Let's go OUTFRONT.
Good evening, everyone. I'm Erin Burnett. OUTFRONT tonight, breaking news, banning gays from restaurants in Arizona at ground zero, for this is in Phoenix. You are looking at a live picture of protesters outside the state capital there.
The protest has been picking up steam in the past few minutes. People are furious that a state bill would allow business owners to use their religious beliefs to refuse service to gays and lesbians.
So if a photographer refused to take pictures of a same-sex wedding on his religious beliefs, the couple could not sue for discrimination, as an example. This bill has passed the state legislature. The next stop is the governor's desk.
And it's not just Arizona. Lawmakers there are not the only ones that want to pass this type of legislation. The so-called religious protection bills have been introduced in other states including Oregon, Ohio, Mississippi, Idaho, South Dakota, Kansas, Tennessee, and Oklahoma.
Miguel Marquez begins our coverage in Phoenix tonight. Miguel, you are on the ground. We are looking at some pictures there. What are you hearing from people?
MIGUEL MARQUEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, they are very upset. They put this thing together in just one day. It was about 300 people out here in front of the state capital. I want to swing around here so you can see the number of people here. They are chanting vote them out and veto.
They want Senate Bill 1062 vetoed. Now the governor has said that she will decide later on in the week once it's transmitted to her office. That's not expected to happen until Monday sometime in the afternoon.
At the same time down in Tucson, Arizona, there is a similar protest going on, a couple hundred, perhaps 300 people down in Tucson, and they are also at the governor's office there, and people in Tucson are also taking a bit of a light-hearted approach.
And one restaurant, they posted a sign saying, "We reserve the right to refuse service to legislators." There's a lot of anger and resentment here about the bill coming around, and they believe especially the lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender community feel it's targeted towards them.
That the thing they are concerned most about is that the provision that it would allow individuals in order they say to discriminate against other individuals based solely on their sexual orientation -- Erin.
BURNETT: All right, Miguel, I mean, obviously, a lot of people there and we have those aerial shots too to give people a sense of, you know, the outrage that there is out there. Obviously there are people that support it. It's at the governor's desk. The governor, Jan Brewer, said she hasn't decided whether she is going to sign the bill.
She says she is going to decide by next week. She did veto something similar last year. I mean, what do you think is going to happen here? Will this become the law of the state?
MARQUEZ: The veto that happened last year was during a broad swath of vetoes as she made over Medicare, a bigger fight there. It's likely that in the days ahead what you are going to see are the businesses here in Arizona. Don't forget the Super Bowl is here next year. Several businesses are already expressed their concern about this particular legislation that if it's signed here.
One business group in Phoenix said they've heard from four businesses already saying that if it's signed they will not relocate to Phoenix. And we heard in the group from not only from politicians, but business leaders as well saying this is going to be not only a black eye for the state of Arizona.
Like SB1070 was, the tough anti-immigration bill, but it will also affect them financially, that it's going to cause a lot of legal costs that the state could not otherwise afford and they are concerned about all that -- Erin.
BURNETT: All right, Miguel, thank you very much, reporting live there from Phoenix. Joining me now, Doug Napier, a lawyer with an organization that testified before members of the Arizona State Legislature, he supports the bill, and Paul Callan, a CNN legal analyst.
All right, Doug, let me start with you. I guess, the first thing to do would be to explain why you think it's right and fair that if -- let's just say a gay couple walks into a restaurant, and assume for a second that you are able to determine from how they act that they are gay, why it's OK to tell them they can't eat there? DOUG NAPIER, SENIOR LEGAL COUNSEL, ALLIANCE DEFENDING FREEDOM: Well, Erin, this nation has had a long-standing history of allowing people to freely live out their faith in private, in work and in business. This bill only does two things. It protects religious liberties.
In fact all those people that you showed, the protesters, if they are concerned about discrimination, they ought to be supporting this bill because it protects people of faith from discrimination. These restaurant examples do not apply. This bill has nothing to do with serving people in restaurants.
BURNETT: But I am trying to understand, because if you are trying to cite religion to be consistent, wouldn't you have to say you are a restaurant owner, right, and I walk in with a man, and you happen to know me and you know that the man that I am holding hands with that is not my husband. So you know I'm having an affair, aren't you required if you believe in the bible and the commandments to not serve me, too?
NAPIER: Absolutely not. That's not what this bill is about. This bill is about protecting people who want to freely live out their in faith in business and the government can't coerce them to violate their conscience as a condition of being in business.
This is like the Obamacare abortion pill mandate, cases that are out there right, where the majority of Americans say businesses shouldn't be forced to support a government program that violates their conscience.
That's why we are taking those cases to the Supreme Court. This was no different. This is the same law that Congress passed in 1993 and was signed into law by Bill Clinton, supported by the ACLU. It has been passed by 26 other states. This basic bill was passed by Arizona in 1999 substantially in the same form.
All this does is extend the definition from person to include corporations, because the Department of Justice and Eric Holder doesn't believe that corporations enjoy religious liberties, and it shows that in this bill it corrects the problem where if the government is not directly involved, a private person can't sue a Christian from living out their faith.
BURNETT: So Paul, will the court support this? That you say well, based on religion, I am not going to serve someone because they are gay or lesbian even though based on religion, I am OK if they are an adulterer. I mean, is that going to be, OK, or does that open a slippery slope to well, I don't want to serve black people?
PAUL CALLAN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Well, you know, I think you asked a great question and in fact, if this law had been on the books in 1964 when the civil rights law was passed eliminating segregation in the south. That law probably would have been held to be unconstitutional in Arizona, and you'd still have segregated restaurants and facilities throughout the state.
This law is it's a carefully crafted law to discriminate against gay people. This is like the stand your ground as to self defense in terms of gay discrimination. It will create a mindset that allows every individual in Arizona who doesn't like gay people to find a way to discriminate and think that they are going to be upheld in court under the guides of religious belief.
BURNETT: I mean, Doug, some people are going to say, look, you are using religion as a shield here. You are saying my religion can't serve gay people. Again, I know I keep bringing up this example, but there is a commandment against adultery, but you would be all right serving people who are adulterers. The inconsistency makes it look like religion is a shield to discriminate against gay people. Why am I wrong?
NAPIER: Because, one, if you read the bill, it doesn't protect any and every action that is under the guides of religion. In fact, the bill requires several things that have to be proven in order to have any protection under this bill. First of all, you have to prove that you have a sincerely held religious belief. You have to prove that it is a religious belief and so you have to cross those hurdles --
BURNETT: How do you prove that?
NAPIER: Well, that's the burden of the person on that end of it. You can point to religious tradition. I don't know of any religious tradition that kicks people out of restaurants for any reason. That's never happen. It's not going to happen and if it did happen under this bill then Paul is right. That part could not be upheld, but the bill is still sound --
CALLAN: Doug, is there a religion that kicks photographers out of wedding ceremonies where gay people are being married? Is that in the bible someplace? That's what we are told this law rose from, a photographer that didn't want to take pictures at a gay wedding? Now what provision of the bible of any religion talks about photographers at gay weddings if we are talking sincerely held religious beliefs?
NAPIER: You know, it's interesting, Paul, because the majority of the people really understand the facts of that case and you are talking about a lane photography in New Mexico, a case which we are handling. You are asking the photographer to go into a wedding, to create a story book, to use the expressive talents, and to be part of a ceremony that she didn't believe in. She said I will take their portraits. It has nothing to do --
CALLAN: How is that different than a caterer serving gay people in a restaurant?
NAPIER: Well, because it has nothing to do -- they are not being asked to use their expressive --
CALLAN: Creating food --
BURNETT: Let Doug finish.
NAPIER: No, they can't go out and say I endorse this ceremony that violates my religious views. Any more than a Jewish deli could be forced to cater a wedding and serve pork sandwiches. That's what I am talking about.
BURNETT: Once you say if my religious beliefs say that I don't have -- I have a problem with someone who is homosexual, and then you open the door to a religious belief -- there could be all kinds of things, right? Whether it's race or anything else, and how do you not have this open the door to that?
NAPIER: The thing that is so interesting about it is that I don't think most of the people are out there protesting actually read this bill because this law is on the books in Arizona. It has been on the books since 1999. This doesn't change any of the concerns.
What you have to do, as I was starting to say, you have to show that the religious belief is sincerely held and it's being burdened and you can burden somebody's religious beliefs if there's a compelling state interest. It moves the burden to the state to show that there's a compelling state interest and a purpose that rises above and justifies the burden of religion, and that the government has taken the least restrictive means to accomplish that.
This is a bill about protecting people from being discriminated, which we are finding more and more that people of faith are. So people that are against discrimination ought to be in favor of the bill and not against it.
BURNETT: All right, well, thanks very much to both of you. We appreciate it, pretty ardent defense and attack. Let us know what you think. We will continue to follow this, as we said, with the breaking news going on in Phoenix tonight and in the coming days.
Coming up, Ted Nugent finally responds to outrage over calling the president a subhuman mongrel. Is the firestorm over or did it get worse?
Plus, did Russia steal the gold or are the Americans whiners?
Another incident of blatant racism, an old myth, it's the second one this week. What is going on there?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BURNETT: Did Russia steal the gold? Well, that's the question a lot of people are asking after the results of last night's women's long program and figure skating. The reigning champion, Yuna Kim, skated a flawless routine, but she lost to 17-year-old Adelina Sonitkova.
Sonitkova had a minor slip-up, but she just happens to be from Russia, an upset by a Russian in Russia, well, that has some people calling foul. So were the judges wrong? Men's figure skating Olympic champion, Brian Boitano and Olympic Paris gold medalist winner, Jimmy Soleah are OUTFRONT.
We appreciate both of you being here. Jamie, you won silver at the salt lake games, and you got the gold medal six days later. And everybody was talking about it. Here is the question to you. Could yesterday's competition have been rigged or unfair? JAMIE SALE, 2002 OLYMPIC GOLD MEDALIST: Wow. Could you be more blunt about it? You know what? I guess we'll never know until somebody speaks, like they did in Salt Lake City, but it's very suspicious. We are all frustrated with this whole every time there's a scandal, there is Russians involved. You have two judges on the panel, and one is a judge that was suspended in 1998 for trying to fix the dance event, and one was the wife of the ice skating federation president. It so doesn't look good.
BURNETT: Brian, what do you think? Was it rigged?
BRIAN BOITANO, MEN'S FIGURE SKATING OLYMPIC CHAMPION: The key word is subjective, subjective, and subjective. We're in a judged sport. When you talk about the component levels of Kim, they are so high, that's the in between skating, the edge quality, the choreography, the sophistication of the way that they move, that definitely isn't here.
But Sonikova brought a technical game of spinning positions, and her jumping, passes, and all were really difficult. But she is not as good in the component, so it brings it here. This is the gray area.
Which ones worth more? Which one should have been awarded more? In my opinion, I got caught up in the moment, too. She was amazing, and at the moment I thought, wow, they are going to give it to her. And then the day after, I think, you know, I don't think that Kim should have been as close to her.
BURNETT: But as for another reason. Brian, it goes further than this. Ashley Wagner, who is also one of the skaters, of course, came in seventh and was fourth from the nationals. So by the way thanks to subjectivity, she got to go even though she would not have technically made the cut, right?
But she has been very vocal of the sports judging system, and after she came in seventh, she said, and I'll quote her, people don't want to watch a sport where you see people fall down, and somehow score above someone who goes clean, it's confusing and we need to make it clear for you. Does that come off a little bit has sour grapes?
BOITANO: I am a big fan of Wagner. I think Ashley's mistakes that she made in the program were not as noticeable to the public, but she had a lot of two foot landings and under rotation on some jumps so I think her scores at least for the free program were fair.
I think the ones that were not fair were for Paulina Edmonds, who ended up in ninth place. Her component scores and her technical scores were really -- I think they should have been at a high level. I think she is the one that got a lower standing than she should have.
BURNETT: Jamie, what do you make of this whole issue, Wagner being one example of it, but there has been a lot of examples of Americans making excuses for their performance, and as a Canadian you get to talk about the fact that you beat America twice in hockey today.
But you know, U.S. speed skaters blamed their suits, and Bode Miller blamed the position of the sun, and look, go ahead and criticize here if you want, but is Team USA making too many excuses?
SALE: Well, I always like to take the high road myself, but I think it's the best -- it's often the hardest one to take, but I think it's the smartest one to take. We were always told when we were skating never to make excuses and take responsibility for why you did not do well and take responsibility for why you did do well, and I don't like that, no.
BURNETT: Brian, do you think it comes off that way, that American athletes give this impression, when we don't win, we will blame it on somebody or something else?
BOITANO: I don't think all athletes do that. It's an individual. It doesn't matter where they come from. America, Canada, doesn't matter. I came from the same upbringing as Jamie did. If you have a problem, you keep it quiet and take responsibility for your actions.
If there is something that might change an outcome, if a costume doesn't feel right, then you have to change it. You take responsibility for yourself as an athlete, and that's why athletes are so mature in so many ways because they have to take responsibility of their situation.
BURNETT: All right, well, thanks very much to both of you. And Jamie, I just must acknowledge because we could hear your little baby back there, and maybe she will be the next figure skating champion.
SALE: Thank you.
BURNETT: All right, thanks to both of you. We appreciate it.
BOITANO: Thank you.
SALE: Thank you.
BURNETT: Coming up, Canada beats America twice. And President Obama loses an enormous bet.
And you probably never heard of these two things together or probably never thought you would, girl scouts and pot? We have a great story.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BURNETT: Madness in Colorado. Business is booming for the state's pot retailers, making a killing selling marijuana. The cash cows inspired many including one very creative, very smart, very enterprising Girl Scout. Kyung Lah has the story.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KYUNG LAH, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Pot and Girl Scout cookies. What sounds like a punch line to the joke was a business plan for the 13-year-old, Danielle Lay. She parked her thin mints and tag-alongs outside San Francisco medical marijuana dispensary, The Green Cross. Sales lit up. The dispensary says she burned through 117 boxes in just two hours.
HOLLI BERT, SPOKESPERSON, THE GREEN CROSS: This girl is smart. She is business savvy. She is monopolizing this new market, and taking advantage in a big way.
LAH: The young teen has become an internet darling. The "Daily Mail" calling her one smart cookie. One declaring her the smartest kid ever as Yahoo points out her sales are blazing. The dispensary which also sells a strain called girl scout cookies call the partnership a classic community effort, a local business supporting a storied American institution.
This may fly here in California, but ironically, not so much in Colorado, where recreational marijuana is legal. The Colorado Girl Scout Council tweeting about marijuana dispensaries, we don't feel they are an appropriate place for girls to be selling cookies.
But the headquarters, the Girl Scouts of the USA has a different take, saying the Girl Scout cookie program is girl run and local counsels make all decisions on how the cookie program is run. But what is important is what they don't say.
The national headquarters is not condemning the partnership. If the girl scouts are on board say marijuana advocates, the stigma must be going up in smoke.
BERT: People are becoming more open-minded and welcoming to the idea of medical cannabis. It sort of reflects the view of the country and the way we are moving forward.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BURNETT: Kyung, I am sorry. I just love that picture of that young girl. I give her a lot of credit. She is smart and she is enterprising. She is going to be a CEO one day. She is 13 years old. What does her mother say about, you know, setting up shop next to pot?
LAH: Yes, we're all going to be working for this girl. What her mom is thinking, this is really a chance to make this a teachable moment. It's unique parenting. She wanted to open up the lines of communication with her daughter to talk about drugs. It's confusing what is legal and not legal, but also to try and remove the sigma of medicinal marijuana, Erin.
They were actually going to go back to the pot shop this weekend, but they may not because of all of the media interests.
BURNETT: Like you said, we will be working for her one day, all of us. Thank you, Kyung.
Well, first, it was a noose, and now it's the "n" word. There's a big question about what is going on at ole miss.
And mounting pressure from Republicans for Ted Nugent to apologize for calling Barack Obama a subhuman mongrel, so did he?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TED NUGENT: I do apologize not necessarily to the president --
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BURNETT: Tonight, new developments in a story we have been following at the University of Mississippi. Police are pushing for criminal charges against three freshman males suspected of placing a noose on the campus statue of civil rights icon James Meredith. They also allegedly draped a flag with a Confederate emblem over the statue's head.
Officials haven't released any names, but we do know the fraternity Sigma Pi Epsilon expelled three students earlier today, that they say are responsible for desecrating the statue. Now, police are investigating another race related incident near campus. A day after the noose was found, a black student at Ole Miss said somebody threw alcohol at her from a car while yelling the "N" word. They don't know at this time if those two incidents are related.
But our Nick Valencia is on the ground there in Oxford, Mississippi, with the student's first national interview.
Nick, you spoke to Kiesha Reeves, the young girl that was harassed. Tell us what you found out.
NICK VALENCIA, CNN NATIONAL REPORTER: Erin, Kiesha Reeves says she is doing OK considering what happened to her. When we spoke to her, she said she heard of other black students here at Ole Miss that have encountered racism, but when it happened to her, she said she was shocked. She took us back to the scene of the incident and she told us what happened.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KIESHA REEVES, STUDENT AT OLE MISS: I was in my car looking for my charger, and when I heard it, I kind of popped my head up and that's when it all -- that's when he threw it out of a gray cup.
VALENCIA: What did you hear?
REEVES: It was (EXPLETIVE DELETED). It was (INAUDIBLE) sped off down the street.
VALENCIA: Do you think there's a culture of intolerance here at Ole Miss? Because when you hear something like this happened, it immediately people -- some people aren't surprised, a lot of people aren't surprised that it happened at Ole Miss. What do you think?
REEVES: I think that people are dealing with balancing the old Ole Miss with the new Ole Miss and what they're trying to become, balancing and dealing with what their parents sent them to school here because that's school they went to and they're dealing with the history being disrupted or dismantled and they really just are searching for that back, so they are dealing with change.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VALENCIA: Kiesha Reeves says despite what happened to her, she is not having any plans of transferring. In fact, up until now, she says her experience at college has been very rewarding and very fulfilling, and she thinks the University of Mississippi is one of the best universities in the nation, and we spoke with the chancellor and we had an honest and frank discussion about the culture on campus.
He said despite these incidents this past week, it's not indicative of what the current climate is here on campus. He acknowledges that history of intolerance here and how this university has been a lightning rod for race-related incidents over the last couple of decades. But he says that's not the way the university is now and they have gone above and beyond in recent years to try to have an honest conversation to change things here -- Erin.
BURNETT: All right. Nick, thank you very much. Reporting from the ground there. Of course, we will see what happens as we get more information about this slate of incidents.
Tonight, firebrand Ted Nugent caves to political pressure. Now, you probably heard by now, that Ted Nugent, the rocker, called President Obama a "subhuman mongrel." And that after that comment, Nugent appeared on the campaign trail this week with Greg Abbott, who is the leading Republican candidate for the governor of Texas.
Now, I'd put a white hot light on the part of the Republican base the GOP likes to count on but definitely doesn't want to showcase.
Here's some reaction from some top Republicans.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R), ARIZONA: It's a free country, but that kind of language really doesn't have anyplace in our political dialogue. It harms the Republican Party. I am sure it harmed that candidate there, and they should be obviously repudiated.
GOV. RICK PERRY (R), TEXAS: I do have a problem with that. That is an inappropriate thing to say.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: And last night, Senator Rand Paul tweeted this. Quote, "Ted Nugent's derogatory description of President Obama is offensive and has no place in politics. He should apologize."
I want to bring in Chris Kofinis, Democratic strategist, and Ben Ferguson, a CNN political contributor and conservative radio host.
Of course, Ben, it was on your show -- Nugent came on your show today. You asked him about this.
BEN FERGUSON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes. BURNETT: You asked him point black if he apologizes. Let me play for our viewers how he answered that question.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
FERGUSON: Did you cross the line by calling the president of the United States of America that, and if you saw Barack Obama would you apologize to him for saying that about him?
TED NUGENT, MUSICIAN: Yes, I would. I did cross the line. I do apologize. Not necessarily to the president, but on behalf of much better men than myself, like the best governor in America, Governor Rick Perry.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
BURNETT: So you are sitting there, Ben, to that answer and social media lights up saying, OK, that is not an apology. And so, you followed up and let me play that.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
FERGUSON: People are saying it was not a real apology. So, again, for the record, are you apologizing to the United States president, Barack Obama, for calling him a "subhuman mongrel"?
NUGENT: Yes.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
BURNETT: All right. So he did. But that was tough to get him to say it. That's not how he wanted to say it.
I mean, do you think, Ben, he is sorry or he was just pressured into saying so?
FERGUSON: No, I think he wanted to make sure that he didn't hurt anybody that he supports in the campaign trail.
We talked a little bit earlier before the interview for a second, and you could tell in his voice, he wishes he would not have used those words, as he put it, 40 days earlier. He also said to me that, you know, when you are saying something like he does, he doesn't like the president. That's obvious.
He is a rock star guy, take that into consideration and context here, and he is a guy that loves a camera and loves to give people the sound bite. And he said afterwards, I learned from political people around me and I learned this probably hurt people, and I am apologizing and will not use those words in the future, so from a rock star, as he put it to me, this is the first time he ever apologized for anything he's ever said in his career and he said a lot of things in his career.
So, for me, it was a different side of Ted Nugent. BURNETT: Interesting. Chris, what's your take? Because it sounds like from what Ben is describing, it was a tactical apology, because his words hurt people running for office, and not an apology because he didn't mean what he said?
CHRIS KOFINIS, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: I think it may have been the worst apology I heard anybody give. He didn't apologize. To be honest about it, you saw in the beginning what he said, not necessarily to the president, and then when Ben pushed him he said yes to the apology Ben articulated. He never said the words -- I apologize to the president of the United States.
At the end of the day this is not so much about Ted Nugent and people like him. It really is about Greg Abbott and politicians that surround themselves by individuals that are really this extreme and this radical in terms of the rhetoric in their language and then have a real difficulty disabusing themselves, of them or making it clear that they don't agree with it in condemning it.
You saw some Republicans come out very forthright. Senator Paul, Senator McCain, I think that was smart. But for whatever reason, Greg Abbott, still has not done that, I have a feeling it's going to continue to haunt him in his race for governor.
BURNETT: I mean -- go ahead, Ben.
FERGUSON: I think it's pretty clear that the Greg Abbott campaign, if they would have known this video is out there would not have had him come with him at this campaign stop.
(CROSSTALK)
FERGUSON: I've actually talked to campaign members. Hold on. I talked to people in the campaign. I've been dealing with this for about 48 hours with everybody who is involved, from Wendy Davis' people to Greg Abbott's people, to show and Ted Nugent today. So, I know a little bit about the history here.
They had talked to Nugent about coming to do this, specifically in a quick decision after Wendy Davis flip-flopped on guns. That's why it happened from what I have been told about it. They obviously did not know this quote was out there, and if they did, they probably would not have asked him to come. Obviously, now, they definitely would not have asked him to come and I think Ted Nugent today felt bad about that.
BURNETT: But let me ask you a question, Ben, because you know, he then -- Ted Nugent continued on your show, because you said, well, if you had the chance to talk to President Obama, what would you tell him right now? And he went off and called him a liar. He's called him a idiot before to our Deb Feyerick.
FERGUSON: Yes.
BURNETT: I mean, so Greg Abbott was totally fine going -- having a guy who called the president a liar and an idiot and a whole lot of other things. I mean, subhuman mongrel seems to be the line, but I mean, the tone of what Ted Nugent said is no different than what he said before.
FERGUSON: This is what Ted said today. He said the president of the United States of America walked out there when people died in Benghazi and he made up a fictitious story about a fake video and made up a story about why these protests happened on the anniversary of 9/11 to cover his rear in the reelection. He says that's lying, he says Susan Rice lied, the president lied, even Hillary Clinton lied.
So, that's when he talks about being a liar. He said I don't trust him on being stories like that, when Americans actually died serving this country, including an ambassador.
Put it in the context of that, and it's not like he is saying the governor is a liar, he is specifically talking about that incident and said I can't trust him --
BURNETT: He called him a gangster and idiot and a lot of other things.
FERGUSON: Sure, he is a rock star and his name is Ted Nugent and he is a crazy guy. I don't need to defend him on that.
KOFINIS: Wait a second. You diminish everything -- when you say he is a rock star, you're diminishing the role and significance he plays where he has been a surrogate for Republicans.
BURNETT: Yes, he is an influential, powerful guy with a lot of people in that party, and that's important. Right.
KOFINIS: And he is a surrogate for Greg Abbott, and it's not what the Abbott campaign knew 30 or 40 days ago when the statement was said, it's when it finally did come out, they did not come out and they yet have to come out, unless I'm mistaken, and make it clear it's an awful remark and it should be condemned, and they would not campaign with Ted Nugent again. They have not said that, have they, Ben?
BURNETT: Well, I do want to note that Ted Nugent, of course, was supposed to appear on this program on Wednesday night, as many of you know. He canceled couple of hours before the show, and he got some grief from that. Ben asked him about that and I want to play for you what he said about this program.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
NUGENT: There's nothing to be afraid of with Erin Burnett. She's a sweetheart. She's a reasonably professional journalist that doesn't take a hateful attitude.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
BURNETT: We re-scheduled Ted Nugent and I look forward to talk to him. FERGUSON: And, Erin, he wanted me to tell you, he cannot wait to spend time in your presence on Monday. That was his exact text to me earlier. He said, tell her I said congratulations on the new baby girl and her husband and I'm looking forward to Monday.
BURNETT: All right. Well, we will have that interview on Monday, and thanks to both of you.
Next, get out criminal. Death to the criminal. Protesters chanting on the streets of Kiev today. A live report from the chaos next.
And then, an OUTFRONT exclusive.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you remember when you learned that your father murdered Jeffrey Dahmer?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BURNETT: We are back with tonight's "Outer Circle". Right now, we go to Ukraine where a spiral of violence is killing people, scores of them, the battles on the streets of Kiev is being described as a proxy war between the U.S. and Russia's Vladimir Putin.
Today, President Obama and Putin spoke on the phone, agreeing a fragile deal that was struck in Ukraine is important to uphold.
Nick Paton Walsh is live in Kiev tonight.
Nick, there was another truce today. Obviously, there was a truce yesterday and it meant pretty much nothing. What are you seeing tonight?
NICK PATON WALSH, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: We are seeing a change in what is happening on the ground here, definitely, Erin. The key thing is the police has been around in the center here and they are nowhere to be seen, and not around key government buildings or parliament either.
There has, of course, the parliament passing laws here, one of them being the dismissal of the interior minister recently. There have been suggestions from the state department official and one leading MP here, that Viktor Yanukovych, the president, has in fact left the capitol towards the east of the country, maybe some say that's because he's looking to shore up his support over there.
But as seen down on the ground below me in the square, a real somber morning in the past few hours. There is black soot covering the floor, that tidied up the ruins and debris of the past few days worth of clashes, but today, they were looking at the bodies of the dead killed in the last 48 hours. Some have real concerns if they are going to stick to the terms of the deal here, the president's power could be weakened under it, but at the same time the protesters have to think about moving out in the next couple day and disarm by the end of tomorrow, and concerns whether or not the leaders who signed this deal can sell it to the crowd, and some were jeered when they got onstage and started to talk about it.
We have to see what happens in the days ahead -- Erin.
BURNETT: All right. Thank you very much to Nick -- live in Kiev.
Well, Jeffrey Dahmer was a horrific serial killer, and the man who killed Dahmer in prison was a convicted murderer himself. And that man had a son, a son who's been paying the price for his father's crimes his entire life. He is now speaking out for the first time to our Jean Casarez.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JEAN CASAREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Do you remember when you learned your father murdered Jeffrey Dahmer?
CHRIS SCARVER, SON OF JEFFREY DAHMER'S KILLER: Yes. It was about 10:00, I saw it on TV, and that's how I found out. So --
CASAREZ: So you suddenly see your father?
SCARVER: Yes, a big picture popped up, and I was just shocked at that point.
PERCY PITZER, CREATIVE CORRECTION ED. FOUNDATION: Fifty percent of the kids in juvenile detention have a parent incarcerated. And we're really trying to slow this down.
CASAREZ (voice-over): As a retired federal prison warden, Percy Pitzer has spent most of his life around prisoners, and now, he wants to help their children.
PITZER: It's a lot of pressure on a kid when a parent is incarcerated.
CASAREZ: His foundation helps the children of inmates get a college degree. One college recipient is the son of the man who murdered notorious serial killer, Jeffrey Dahmer, while in prison.
(on camera): Do you remember the first time that you heard the name Jeffrey Dahmer?
SCARVER: I heard it a lot growing up. That's all I heard. When I was younger, I didn't know what it meant obviously. But, you know, that name has been around me for my whole life. So --
CASAREZ (voice-over): Chris Scarver is senior at Bethany Lutheran College has lived with the secret his whole life but is finally ready to talk about it. He was born just after his father, also named Christopher Scarver, committed a murder that would land him in jail with Dahmer. It was the cold-blooded killing of a job trainer in Milwaukee.
SCARVER: For a long time, I believe he was going to come home, man, you know? I always kept that hope. After a while, you know, I just said, I don't know, it just hit me that maybe it won't happen, you know? And I got mad, and that turned into anger.
CASAREZ: And then his father committed another crime that ensured he would never be coming home. He bludgeoned Jeffrey Dahmer and another inmate to death in the prison gym.
(on camera): Do you ever think about if -- because there's still a question as to whether guards may have set up your father because he should not have been left alone with the other two men in prison.
SCARVER: No. I think about that all the time. It makes me wonder if he even did it.
CASAREZ (voice-over): Chris understands, however, his father pleaded no contest to the murders and is now serving three life terms in Colorado. But Chris said he also knows something else. His father saved his life from becoming one of those statistics.
SCARVER: I was actually starting to go down the wrong road. That's why I wrote him. I didn't know what to do. I needed some guidance. And I just told him everything that I was going through and how I felt about me and his relationship, all those built up years, all that pain that I had. I finally just let it go and just talked to him.
CASAREZ: And his father wrote right back with advice. "Tough times don't last. Tough people do. And you are the toughest kid I know."
Chris so credits his father with putting him back on the right road, he keeps a prison photo of his dad on his dorm room door.
SCARVER: I hit the door like this just to say, OK, this is what you're doing this for.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BURNETT: All right. And Jean's with me now.
Jean, so does Chris plan to visit his father?
CASAREZ: He hasn't seen him since he was a very little boy. And he really wants to go. His father is housed in Colorado and he has gotten the form to be put on his visitors' list. Chris is a senior. He is majoring in sociology and business. He wants to go into business. He wants to have his own business at one point.
And Creative Corrections Education Foundation is this scholarship foundation. It's really gaining steam. Corporations are jumping on board. Universities like the University of Wisconsin are coming on board, because the fact is, you've got to break the cycle.
And if a child has a parent in prison, that's the role model they have. They can go down that road. So, how do you break the cycle? Well, Percy Pitzer, the former federal warden, and that is why he's giving out scholarship just like this.
BURNETT: All right. Jean, thank you very much.
On tap next, President Obama loves beer. But he seems to love sharing beer, but not with one person. We'll explain.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BURNETT: And it's time for the OUTFRONT "Outtake".
Canada beat America again. Canada defeated the USA in men's ice hockey. Jamie Benn from Canada scoring the only goal of the game. America's record against Canada in the Olympics ever since NHL players were allowed to play is now one win, four losses. Ouch.
And this humiliation goes all the way to the top. President Obama personally lost a bet to Canada's prime minister Steven Harper. President Obama tweeted before the game, "@PMHarper and I bet on the men's and women's U.S.-Canada hockey games. Winner gets a case of beer for each game. Go Team USA."
Sorry, that's two cases for Harper because the U.S. women lost to Canada, too. And so, today, he demanded payment. Tweet, "Like I said, Team USA is good but we are winner. Barack Obama, I look forward to my two cases of beer."
But this wasn't just a casual between buddies. Here's the thing. For years we've been watching this situation. Canada's prime minister has done everything he can to get Barack Obama to pay attention to him.
But every time he's been rebuffed. The president's affections and body language turn to other leaders. The president his hand over his face as if President Harper isn't even in the room.
I mean, here's the president sharing a beer with British Prime Minister David Cameron. It was at the G-20 in Canada. There's still no Harper.
Pretty harsh considering President Obama really isn't picky when it comes to sharing beers. He loves beer diplomacy on the campaign trail and at the White House. The White House even brews its own honey ale. The president seems to like having a beer with almost anyone except Steven Harper. Heck, the last time the president lost a beer bet to Harper he had someone else deliver it. So will he eat humble pie this time and show up in person? I don't think so.
Coming up on Monday, one-on-one with Ted Nugent. He is my live guest. We have lots to talk to him about. First, he called the president a subhuman mongrel. He apologized, sort of. And why did he cancel on this show at the last minute last week? That's on Monday. We'll look forward to seeing you then. Have a wonderful weekend, everybody.
"AC360" starts right now.
