Return to Transcripts main page
Erin Burnett Outfront
Protesters Slam Arizona's "Religious Freedom" Bill; Interview with Ted Nugent
Aired February 24, 2014 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST: Next, breaking news, hundreds of angry protesters gathering outside the Arizona governor's office, they say the state is allowing discrimination against gays in the name of God.
Plus, a new battle in the war on the 1 percent, tonight, billionaire, John Paul Dejori, one of the richest men in America fighting back.
And Ted Nugent backed out of an interview with me last week, and tonight he's OUTFRONT live and I'll ask him why he called the president a subhuman mongrel. Let's go OUTFRONT.
Good evening, everyone. I'm Erin Burnett. We begin this Monday with breaking news, anger in Arizona tonight, protesters massing outside the state capitol. Will businesses be allowed to deny service to gays in the name of God?
You're looking at a live picture of protesters claiming the bill now sitting on the governor's desk, Jan Brewer, waiting for her signature. They say a state-sponsored discrimination. The anger is swinging some lawmakers.
Today, three state senators who had voted for the bill are now urging Brewer to veto it. So far Brewer has refused to comment on the bill's fate. Miguel Marquez has been following the story. He is there in Arizona tonight and what is it like there tonight, Miguel?
MIGUEL MARQUEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, at this point it's a little less (inaudible) than it was on Friday. This crowd only about 40 to 50 strong at the moment, but I will say that it brought in a number a number of people who are here.
There are rabbis and priests here. There are people from the straight community here to support this. But on both sides of this issue, there are very, very seriously held beliefs.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MARQUEZ (voice-over): Maia Arenson runs Christian Business Networking.
MAIA ARENSON, CHRISTIAN BUSINESS NETWORKING: Basically we serve Christian business owners.
MARQUEZ: Arenson says the bill is necessary to protect all religions. ARENSON: I want for everyone's values to be able to be respected, whether they are Christian, Muslim, Jewish, whatever that may be.
MARQUEZ: But heated debate and protest across the state has centered on whether the bill would limit services, particularly wedding services to same sex couples. It is a test of religious rights and values versus individual and basic human rights. Tough questions for the deeply religious who see a society in conflict.
(on camera): Do you have gay members or gay Christians --
ARENSON: I don't know. I don't necessary -- I don't really address that within Christian Business Networking, whether someone is gay or not gay.
MARQUEZ: Right. But would they be welcome in the network if they work?
ARENSON: Would they be welcome in the network? Give me just a second to think about that. I'm sorry.
MARQUEZ (voice-over): Hard to answer, she says because for her this is not a gays versus religion issue.
ARENSON: We want to be able to find a way, hopefully through something like this bill to be able to have it where everyone is respected for their religion, their faith.
MARQUEZ: But many here say the bill has brought unnecessary controversy.
(on camera): The rest of the country tends to think of Arizona as the crazy state. What does this situation say about it?
TODD SANDERS, CEO, PHOENIX CHAMBER OF COMMERCE: I think it says we are really not the crazy state. When I hear people talking about boycotting Arizona or maybe not coming here, I would say think twice because there are a lot of people here, the majority, who believe that we need to be an open and welcoming state for everyone.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MARQUEZ: Now, that bill is on Governor Brewer's desk. She is in Washington right now. She's expected back here in Arizona tomorrow. She's expected then to meet with legislators and business leaders on Wednesday. And it is expected on Thursday or Friday that she will make a decision on this bill.
The crowd here will only grow throughout the week. On Wednesday, they are planning an overnight vigil or presence here at the state capitol. And they promise to be here every single day until she decides -- Erin.
BURNETT: Thank you very much, Miguel. Obviously, it will be a crucial week there. There are a lot of other states who are looking at the same kind of legislation. OUTFRONT tonight, Doug Napier, a lawyer for the organization that has testified in favor of the bill for the Arizona State Legislature and Mel Robbins, a defense attorney, radio talk show host.
All right, good to have you both with us. Doug, let me start with you, I know, you were talking about this on Friday, why you believe this bill makes sense, but obviously some of those key supporters are holding tonight, three state senators who backed the bill, supported it, are now saying they made a mistake. Do you think it could be a mistake?
DOUG NAPIER, SENIOR LEGAL COUNSEL, ALLIANCE DEFENDING FREEDOM: Not at all. What's at stake here is whether Arizona is going to be a safe place for people of faith. This is a common sense bill that balances religious liberties with compelling state interests.
And the question is whether Governor Brewer is going to sacrifice religious liberty in the state of Arizona because of a lot of misinformation and intimidation and fear that's been put out there that is simply not going to happen with this bill.
I can cite you a lot of examples where people of faith have been persecuted and discriminated against because of their religious beliefs. Nobody can cite examples on the other side that have happened since this bill has been on the books since 1999.
BURNETT: So if I'm a business owner and I believe, according to my religion, for example, that I don't want to serve homosexuals and I want to not let them in my restaurant, you're saying that if I am forced to serve them, I'm the one being discriminated against?
NAPIER: No. I'm saying that if you look at the bill, if you look at the bill that Arizona passed, if you can cite to me any provision in there that gives a person a right to simply turn away service from a restaurant, then I'll oppose the bill, but that's not what the bill is about.
What this bill is about is a very narrowly tailored bill to protect people's religious freedoms. This is a human dignity bill, a human rights bill. It's an anti-discrimination bill so people of faith have a safe place in Arizona. That's all it is.
BURNETT: Human rights, human dignity, Mel, is that what this bill is about?
MEL ROBBINS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I try not to laugh. The words you're using, persecution, safe, anti-discrimination, it's a joke. First of all, the bill -- the bill that we're discussing right now is not the bill that was in place since 1999 because your language expands it to individuals.
It expands it to -- no, it does not. It expands it. Here's the thing, I can make this very, very simple. When you're talking about the right to discriminate, which is what this bill is basically all about, the right for somebody to discriminate based on their religious belief, there are three types of discrimination that you need to understand.
The first one is personal discrimination, which is constitutionally protected, by the way. I personally have the right to discriminate in my choices around my personal life. I can discriminate against certain men who aren't Methodist, for example, because I don't want to marry a Methodist. That's constitutionally protected discrimination.
Second form is private association. If Maia, who is the woman who was in that clip when she was asked, would you let a gay Christian business owner in because there are a lot of open and affirming Christian churches in this country, and she was like -- I need a minute because she's going to discriminate. I'm not done.
Private associations like the boy scouts who are brave enough to say, we don't want gay male scout leaders in our organization, the Supreme Court has upheld their right to discriminate. This is why your bill is wrong.
The third, you do not have a right to public discrimination. You open up a business. You are making a public accommodation to the public. You're not serving god, you're serving pizza. You're making flowers. You're serving up photographs. You do not have the right to discriminate in this country, end of story.
BURNETT: I mean, Doug, back to the question of the slippery slope, though, right? Once you say you're going to not allow someone in for reason x, then all of a sudden reasons A through Z open up.
NAPIER: Again, that's the misinformation. This bill balances the rights of religious freedom against a compelling state interest. All the examples that you cited don't fall into that.
ROBBINS: How is this protecting your religious freedom?
NAPIER: Because if you think somebody should come into your studio to tell you exactly what message you should convey from your microphone? Of course not, there's a first amendment right to freedom of press. There's also a first amendment right to freedom of religion.
ROBBINS: That's not the same example. That's not the same example.
NAPIER: It is.
ROBBINS: No, it's not.
NAPIER: You think an artist should have to paint a picture depicting if you have a Muslim artist that they have to paint a picture --
BURNETT: Hold on. Let Doug finish.
NAPIER: If you have a Muslim artist and you say I want you to paint a graphic that discredits Islam or something like that, they wouldn't have to do that. If you've got a photographer that's got to use their creative and expressive talent to convey a message contrary to their belief, they shouldn't have to do that. We had a photographer that refused to photograph our president because they didn't agree with our organization's message. Under California law we could have sued her. We didn't because we defend her right.
BURNETT: Isn't that different than a restaurant? We went through the civil rights in the south, but I guess that is a question here is whether rights for gays --
NAPIER: Like I said, show me where restaurants can refuse rights to anybody.
ROBBINS: It is not written in black and white, which is smart of you, because if you had written it out specifically --
NAPIER: If you had done a better job of reading between the lines like everybody else --
ROBBINS: What you do is you gave somebody a pre-emptive right to have a full-proof defense if they are sued for discriminating and denying somebody a public accommodation in a business, and if they win under this law, you get your attorney's fees covered.
So you have written a law that gives somebody, when they cloak themselves in their religion and they do it from a -- a subjective point of view because it's whether or not you think your religion --
NAPIER: You know, this is the problem, when you sacrifice religious liberty on the altar on the tolerance mentality. This is what you end up with. Christians are marginalized, people of faith are marginalized, and if you don't go along with the politically correct crowd, you are punished and you are saying you can't do business in Arizona.
The governor needs to sign this bill, send a message to the rest of the nation that we're open for business for people of all faiths, and that we will defend people's right to express their religion in the way that suits their conscience that has a balance and a protection and a safeguard in the statute that doesn't let them do whatever they want to. That's what this bill does. It's common sense. It needs to be passed.
BURNETT: Thanks to both of you. Of course, we want you feedback. We use the word alter tolerance, do you think that gives you the right to exclude certain people? By the way, we should note in terms of business response to this, Apple, AT&T and the NFL, which is about to host Super Bowl near Phoenix have all come out against this bill.
OUTFRONT next, the war on the 1 percent. One of the country's richest man is OUTFRONT.
Plus Ted Nugent canceled on me last week, but tonight he is here. He is live. Why did he call the president a subhuman mongrel?
And Paula Deen's has her comeback, but is her latest apology enough? (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PAULA DEEN, CELEBRITY CHEF: If anybody did not hear me apologize, I want to apologize.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BURNETT: Battle royale, tempers flaring in Washington today over the minimum wage debate.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOV. BOBBY JINDAL (R), LOUISIANA: I think there are things we can do instead of waving the white flag of surrender, instead of declaring this economy to be a minimum wage economy, I think our economy, think America can do better.
GOV. DANNIEL MALLOY (D), CONNECTICUT: Wait a few seconds, until a few moments ago we were going down a pretty cooperative road. I don't know what the heck was a reference to white flag when it comes to people making $404 a week. I mean, that's the most insane statement I've ever heard, quite frankly. So let's be very clear that we've had a great meeting, and we didn't go down that road. And it just started again. And we didn't start it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Of course, that was the Republican versus Democratic governor. The question is, are we waving the white flag of surrender or not?
OUTFRONT tonight, a man who knows a lot about running companies. He spoke them from scratch, billionaire John Paul Dejoria, co-founder and chairman of John Paul Mitchell systems and spirit.
John Paul, you just saw a pretty childish exchange between two governors. My question to you is which one of them is right?
JOHN PAUL DEJORIA, CO-FOUNDER AND CHAIRMAN, JOHN PAUL MITCHELL SYSTEM: Well, I love you out there. And you have to realize that neither one of them is right. I can represent the 99 percenters and the one percenters. I have worked constantly since I was 11-years-old. I have worked for sub-minute mum wage, I have worked for minimum wage and on my own got my minimum wage raised.
What they have to realize is this. You have to work together. You can't separate, we, the people. In other words, you want to make $10, $12, $15 an hour, you should, but the way you do it is you work with the person paying you and say this. I want to contribute more. I want to contribute so much that I'm worth paying $10, $12, $15 to. I'm going to help raise your bottom line. I'm going to contribute more. Let's do this together. That's the answer, not pitting one against the other. That's silly. That's not America. That's stupid! BURNETT: So you're saying, you know, don't regulate it and just say on the national level, raise the minimum wage. That's not the way to do it.
DEJORIA: No. What I'm saying is, why don't you come out to say let's make it, $12, $15, anything you want, but let's have those that work, because I did it when working for minimum wage.
BURNETT: On the individual level you're saying, discuss with your employer.
DEJORIA: On the individual level, work together so you can work with your company to be able to make more money but being worthy of doing that so everyone makes more money. Otherwise, everyone's got to raise their prices, we go to inflation, and it's not the best answer. It's become more effective.
That's why Paul Mitchell has their business here in the United States. All of our white goods are made here. We work with people to be more efficient. We don't have to go overseas. We make America work.
BURNETT: So look, there's been a lot of discussion about this minimum wage being just one battle, right? In the overall conversation in this country, about the one percent and about income equality. (INAUDIBLE), others have talked about income and inequality. I got Simpsons, one of the wealthiest people in the country. You know him, the real estate investor. Tom Perkins, adventure capital list, and they are just among the few who have weighed in on this. And I wanted to play it for, Chris Christie and Joe Biden, and see which one of them you agree with when it comes to solving the problem of inequality. Here they are.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOE BIDEN, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The middle class has been clobbered. You know, they talk about the fact that we shouldn't be talking about income inequality. I think it would be a sin if we didn't talk about income inequality.
GOV. CHRIS CHRISTIE (R), NEW JERSEY: You want income equality? That's mediocrity. Everybody can have an equal mediocre salary. That's what we can afford. Or do you want the opportunity for greatness?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: All right. You're in the one percent, J.P., as obvious, right? Everyone knows that. You're a billionaire. Which one of the men has the more accurate story line?
DEJORIA: Sorry to laugh again, neither one. There's one award given every year, it's the only award and it's the Supreme Court of the United States. It's called the Horatio Alger award. Oprah Winfrey got it. I got it. several others got it. OK?
What it is about is the American way where in America you can start out with a lot of adversity, make it to the top one percent, make the American dream come true on your own, but along the way, share it with other people. They are missing it. They are splitting every -- I don't agree with either one.
I agree with the American way is, whatever you're making, work with your employer, show them how to do things better, how you can become more efficient and in the end you all make more money. That's the American way. Not saying you must pay me this amount of money. Work together so we can all make more money. I want everyone to make more than $10 an hour, more than that, but you have to work with the people who do it.
BURNETT: Right. So, I mean, the way it is being discussed to do that right now are, let's talk one, raising the minimum wage to the federal level, which you're saying no, you don't agree with doing it that way. The other is where raising taxes and raising taxes in particular on the top one percent. The president has talked about it. It a major a major push in the cities across the country, including the New York. The mayor was just elected on the byline, a tail of the two cities, rich and poor.
Is that the way to do it? The wealthy pay more taxes right now, the one percent pay more taxes to fund the 99?
DEJORIA: I'm a member of group, which we'll talk about later called the Giving Pledge, but to kind of zero in on something right now, when God created this planet, he created an oyster. And he said, oyster, I'm going to give you the perfect environment. A free house to live in, a shell. and I'm going to put you at the bottom of the ocean to protect you from your enemies. If you are hungry, open your mouth, food rushes in.
Free house, free clothing, free food, free everything, but oyster, you are not going far. Then the good Lord created an eagle and said eagle, you are a different type of species. If you want to build a house, go build it on a top of a mountain or on top of a tree. If you want to eat, go fly around to find your food. Raise your young that way.
The eagle flies through miles of wind, rain, sleet and snow to feed its young. The eagle misses 95 percent of its time, the prey only succeeds five percent of the time. But the eagle can go anywhere it wants. The eagle and not the oyster is the emblem of America. They are missing the point. We're a land of eagles, not oysters.
BURNETT: So in other words, don't hand things out, you work. That's what you're saying.
DEJORIA: Yes! It works. You work together to make this happen, my God, you work together. There are several of us that are in the top one percent that are called the Giving Pledge. It's Warren Buffett, myself, Bill Gates, so many other wonderful Americans in the top one percent.
We have all pledged to give 50 percent of all of our money to help make the world a better place to live through charities that we're involved in. So you keep on hitting that one percent, but realize there's a lot of them that are making the world different because they are the one percent.
And isn't it true that isn't the American dream to be the one percent or the 25 percent of the top 50 percent? You take that away and you take away America and what we stand for.
We're a great country. I'm all about working together achieving the end result, not picking one against the other to make different rules. Why can't we have a president, a society, both sides by the way, saying this, how do we find ways to work together to become more productive? The way this other guy has to do it and make the American dream happen. Let's make that happen. That's the way to do it.
BURNETT: All right, John Paul, thank you very much. Always great to talk to you.
And please, everyone, we relish your feedback.
DEJORIA: America still works.
BURNETT: On what John Paul had to say about the one percent. Please share with us.
Still to come, eight months after n word forced off the air, Paula Deen plotting her comeback, but will America forgive her?
And Ted Nugent is here live. Did he apologize for calling the president a subhuman mongrel?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BURNETT: Paula Deen is trying to stage a major comeback. The celebrity chef has avoided the public eye since admitting to using the n-word. Yesterday though, at the sound speech, (INAUDIBLE), she was given a warm reception and she took a moment to address the controversy.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PAULA DEEN, CELEBRITY CHEF: I have heard on more than one occasion, so that's why it is important to me to say this to you all. That I never apologized. So if anybody did not hear me apologize, I want to apologize to those that did not hear me.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Steve Adubato is the branding expert. Steve, can she pull this off?
STEVE ADUBATO, BRANDING EXPERT: Well, first thing, Erin, she never actually apologizes for what she did, what she said, and that's the first thing when it comes to apologies. You have to be specific. Yes, she did apologize, but she didn't just use the n-word, she also discussed slavery and the irony of that is she said that her great grandfather owned slaves but she said they were really workers. And he was so upset when he lost his workers that his life was destroyed and that people don't really understand that back in the day that black people at the time were part of the family, her family.
Listen, I think Paula Deen is probably a really nice person. But when she opens her mouth, Erin, and talks about race and she talks about slavery, it's dangerous. And further on in that clip, I don't know if you get a chance to show it, she also says she has a joke she want to tell and doesn't tell it. Let me tell you, the reason she doesn't tell jokes is because I don't know what's in Paula Deen's mind, but the jokes she tells border on potentially racist and dangerous for most of us who think a certain way, which is that you don't insult people. I think Paula Deen is a nice person who is dangerous when she is unscripted.
BURNETT: Let me play that where she said that so everyone can see the look on her face, because I think that goes a long way to showing what you're saying. Here she is.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DEEN: It's so good to be here. I don't even have a joke, not one that I can tell you. I would so love to tell you all my favorite one about a little bally.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No. I'm familiar with your jokes.
BURNETT: And -- yes.
ADUBATO: Listen. I don't know what he says about a little boy. Listen. And I'm not the most pc person in the world, but I'll tell you this, Erin. The reason people around her are freaking out is because she's trying to rebuild her brand. She's trying to come back from the n-word. She is trying to come back from losing, check this out, sears, k-mart, Target, Home Depot, QVC, Walmart. You don't come back from that and say, I've got a joke for you, it's about a little boy. Because to a lot of people who know Paula Deen, they are worried that boy to her may mean potentially an African-American kid that she may mean by boy.
And by the way, the rest of you don't understand because when I say boy, I don't mean anything bad. She may not. But to most people, Erin, that's just wrong. And I think that someone who grew up the way Paula Deen does or did just doesn't understand how that offends folks. And the people around her, Erin, I was watching that clip, they were yelling out, you don't have to apologize for anything.
BURNETT: About to all this people.
ADUBATO: Well, I tell you what. Her loyal fans, the ones she has, maybe you don't, but for most folks, you have to apologize. If you want to build your brand beyond that niche audience, you do have to apologize because things that were said were so unbelievably offensive.
BURNETT: All right. Well, Steve Adubato, thank you very much.
And of course, we want to remind you an international investor firm has put $75,000 into Paula Deen's comeback.
Still to come, a week after Ted Nugent decided not to be on the show, he joins us tonight. Was he really sorry about calling the president a subhuman mongrel?
And later, we hear from the pilot who was left bleeding after this happened.
(VIDEO CLIP PLAYS)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BURNETT: Ted Nugent is finally here. Last week, he was booked on the show and we wanted to ask him about his now infamous comment calling President Obama a, quote, "subhuman mongrel."
As you know, Nugent canceled on us but we still wanted to do this interview because here's why Ted Nugent's words have gotten attention. He's politically vocal and influential. His support is seen as a big win for many GOP candidates, even those running for president.
Here's what Mitt Romney's son tweeted during the 2012 election. Quote, "Ted Nugent endorsed my dad today. Ted Nugent? How cool is that? He joins Kid Rock as great Detroit musicians on Team Mitt."
Nugent attended last year's State of Union Address of Texas Republican Congressman Steve Stockman. He's appeared with many big named Republicans. He performed at Texas Governor Rick Perry's inauguration in 2007.
He was on the board of the NRA, a position voted on by some of the organization's members, which are more than 4 million Americans.
He's delivered speeches at the NRA annual conventions and, of course, all of you know him as the rocker Ted Nugent.
He's now OUTFRONT.
And, Ted, look, it's great to have you with us.
I want to get straight to this question of whether you apologized or not, right? So, you were on Ben Ferguson's radio show and, first, you explicitly said, I'll quote you, "I do apologize, not necessarily to president." People got upset on Twitter, said that wasn't a real apology. Ben asked you again, he said, "Specifically, are you apologizing to the president of the United States?," you said yes. A lot of people still say you didn't apologize.
Did you mean it?
TED NUGENT, MUSICIAN: Erin, can you see me?
BURNETT: I see you, Ted.
NUGENT: All right. I can't see you, so I'm at a great disadvantage because I glow and I know you do, too.
Erin, come on, you've got this English language down really well. I bet you understand that the question is, do you apologize and I answer yes. You don't really have to ask that question again, do you?
BURNETT: Well, I just wanted to know because a lot of people felt that the first opportunity when you said, well, not necessarily to the president, but you know a lot of people picked up on that. So I wanted to give you the opportunity to say that you really did mean it.
But I want to ask you because this is the question a lot of people have. I read your Twitter feed today, and you told me on Twitter @ErinBurnett, you said, hey, you better have "The View" tape ready, and I thought, what is "The View" tape?
And I found it, Ted. Here's what this is -- this is when President Obama used the word mongrel in the summer of 2010. I wanted to play what he said about mongrel and what you said. Here goes.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIPS)
NUGENT: I have obviously failed to galvanize prod and not shamed enough Americans to be ever vigilant not to let a Chicago communist-raised, communist-educated, communist-nurtured subhuman mongrel like the ACORN community organizer gangster Barack Hussein Obama to weasel his way into the top office of authority in the United States of America.
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: In the interesting thing about the African-American experience in this country is that we are sort of a mongrel of people. We are all kind mixed up. Now, that's actually true for white America as well, but we just know more about it.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
OBAMA: And so I'm less interested in how we label ourselves. I'm more interested in how we treat each other. And if we're treating each other right, then I can be African-American, I can be multiracial, I can be, you name it, what matters is am I showing people respect, am I caring for other people?
(APPLAUSE)
(END VIDEO CLIPS)
BURNETT: So what do you think, Ted?
NUGENT: Well, number one, thank you, Erin, for playing that tape as I requested. And I appreciate you monitoring my Twitter account.
I think you know what I think. I think the president is intentionally disassembling the greatest quality of life in the history of the world. I believe that he is creating class warfare intentionally to get Americans to draw this line in the sand where I have never seen such political discourse in all my life.
And yes, I do apologize for being part of that political discourse because greater men than myself have advised me that that kind of street language in a volatile interview as you played earlier is not appropriate when trying to get some upgrade here in America. But I cannot put in adequate terms the condemnation I feel and so many Americans feel that this president's fundamental transformation of this country is indeed the destruction of the American dream of being compensated based on being the best you can be.
The concept of social justice and economic equality is truly bizarro. The president's a bad man. I want to make sure that Americans are encouraged to be the best that they can be, not to be compensated for not even trying. I really believe history will show I've been right and the president and CNN was wrong.
BURNETT: So I want to -- I want to understand, because a lot of people want to understand, and look, I understand you're saying now I want to elevate the discussion. I think a lot of people are going to say, that's great, if you started to do that.
But I want to understand why you used the word "mongrel" when you did, OK? Because obviously we looked around, I looked it up in the dictionary, I'm sure you have at this point as well, the definition is a dog of mixed or undetermined breed, and the only use of the word "mongrel" that I could find in common talk, because you're talking about street talk, was actually the Aryan Nation membership form where you have to affirm, quote, "I'm an employed white and Christian. I concur the Aryan Nations is only Aryans of Anglo-Saxon, Germanic, Nordic, Basque, Lombard Celtic and Slavic origin. I agree with Aryan Nation's biblical exclusion of Jews, Negroes, Mexicans or Orientals and mongrels."
That's the only place I could find that word. Did you mean that way?
NUGENT: Boy, you learn (AUDIO GAP) today. No, I've never heard that reference before. I'll tell you, I've been a cop in Lake County, Michigan, since 1982 thereabout. I conduct federal raids with the DEA and ATF and U.S. Marshals and the FBI and Texas Rangers and heroes of law enforcements.
And we are re-arresting fugitive felons let out of their cages after murdering and raping and molesting children, carjacking. And we keep going after these guys.
The adrenaline is something like you will never experience, I hope you never have to experience it, but when we are done with these kinds of raids, we get together and our hearts are broken that we have to face these monsters. We call them mongrels. We call bad people who are destroying our neighborhoods mongrels.
I knew of no racial reference. I think the president is absolutely correct. Whites, blacks, Hispanics, yellow, red, we are all mongrels basically because we are mixed breeds. I concur with that, so I learned something there and I learned something from your research into history.
But for anyone to claim that I'm a racist or it had racist overtones is the typical crap that the propaganda ministry and the media, particularly most of your cohorts there, even though I got Piers Morgan's ass thrown out and I'll do the same with Don Lemon and Wolf Blitzer when I can.
BURNETT: All right. Don't -- do me a favor, don't talk about my colleagues that way. I respect them both greatly.
NUGENT: But you might be able to stay on because I appreciate that.
BURNETT: But let me --
NUGENT: I just -- I just did. They don't deserve the respect. But you go ahead.
BURNETT: All right. Let me -- let me ask you about something else you said about the president since you said there was nothing racial about it. I'm hoping you can explain a certain word here in that same conversation that I played for you where you used subhuman mongrel, you also said this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NUGENT: A lot of people call that inflammatory speech. I would call it inflammatory speech when it's your job to protect Americans and then you look into the television camera and say, what difference does it make that I failed in my job to provide security and we have four dead Americans? What difference does that make? Not to a chimpanzee or to Hillary Clinton, I guess it doesn't matter.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Chimpanzee?
NUGENT: Yes, Erin, I appreciate you playing that.
Do you really think that I referenced any race as a primate? I call my buddies in my band chimpanzees when they miss a guitar lick.
Come on. Give me a break on that. I referenced no racial overtones there whatsoever. I was referencing people who would look in the camera with four dead Americans in Benghazi and refuse to be accountable and say, what difference does it make? You've either got to be a punk, a liar, grossly dishonest, dangerously anti-American, or some kind of animal to agree with that kind of stuff.
So, insert the word dog or mongrel or chimpanzee, I have nothing against any race. In fact, my whole life is dedicated to my black heroes, my black musical heroes, and you know that. I have not a racist bone in my body.
That's the Saul Alinsky propaganda ministry running amuck like your goofball friend Paul Begala who claims that I'm a has-been. I just celebrated my 50th greatest tour. Fifty years, number one --
BURNETT: Ted, I know one thing --
NUGENT: -- guitar player in Detroit last year. I'm a black guitar player from Detroit. Get over it.
BURNETT: All I know is if I call up the president, a black president a chimpanzee, I would and should be fired, because it is a racist thing to say.
NUGENT: I didn't call the president -- I never called the president a chimpanzee.
(CROSSTALK)
BURNETT: Not to a chimpanzee or to Hillary Clinton. Who's the chimpanzee?
NUGENT: You think I hesitate -- people who support that it doesn't matter four Americans are dead.
BURNETT: People who looked into the television camera and said -- I mean, the people you're referring to. Well, I will leave it to the viewer to decide whether that was a direct reference to the president or not, but we're going to take a brief break and come back with Ted Nugent.
NUGENT: I would, because tonight, we have some good viewers.
BURNETT: We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BURNETT: All right. We are back again with Ted Nugent.
Ted, I wanted to ask you something that obviously is personal to me as well, and that is that this isn't just about the president, in terms of the things that you say and how you say them and the tone that you have for your base people. Women in particular, here are some words you used to describe Hillary Clinton. I obviously can't say them in this program. But they include the toxic C-word, worthless bitch and two-bit whore. These are all things you used to describe her.
And my issue is, whether you agree with her politics or not, there are people who listen to you and care deeply about what you say. How can they not be offended by terms like that?
NUGENT: Well, Erin, I have a very important advisory board. And as a new mother yourself, is your son your first child?
BURNETT: He is my first child.
NUGENT: Well, I congratulate you on that. I have nine wonderful kids, 11 grandkids, and they are constantly telling me over the years, "Dad, honey, quit calling people names!" So I'm stopping calling people names. You know, I'm on stage, you ever see a good Richard Pryor, you are not allowed to mention Richard Pryor's greatest albums on your CNN. We are not allowed to use the titles of Richard Pryor's albums because of political correctness.
(CROSSTALK)
BURNETT: So, are you saying, Ted, that --
NUGENT: I have unlimited irreverence and outrage on stage.
BURNETT: Are you going to say that you're never going to call people names again?
NUGENT: Live on ERIN BURNETT OUTFRONT, CNN, Ted Nugent, remember the Alamo, February 24, 2014, I'm not going to call people names anymore.
However, I have a little escape clause here, because when I'm on stage singing "Wang Dang Sweet Poontang", would you give me permission to go overboard occasion? Please tell me you will.
BURNETT: I think that to me, I mean, I know you are trying to make slightly light of this, but to me, these things are not light at all --
(CROSSTALK)
NUGENT: No, I'm not making light, these are very serious. I agree.
BURNETT: This is a horrible thing to do.
NUGENT: You're right. My children, my brothers, my sister and my wonderful wife Shemane have told me that over and over. And I think at the tender age of 65, I think you're absolutely correct. Instead of using terms like "subhuman mongrel", I'm going to get right to the meat of the matter, where our president is a liar, he lies about, you can keep your doctor, period, over and over again. He lies about Benghazi. He's lying about the IRS.
So, I won't call names anymore. I'm going to get right down to the nitty-gritty and identify the criminal behavior by the people abusing power in the United States government. So, I take your advice to heart, Erin.
BURNETT: And when you talk about things like these things with women. I mean, is this something that -- do you --
NUGENT: These things with women, what's the things with women?
BURNETT: When you use the toxic C-word, because I think the problem that I have with it and a lot of people have with it, is that you wouldn't say those things unless you thought those things. They aren't things people just say off the cuff --
NUGENT: Not true.
BURNETT: -- or say because they aren't thinking. People don't say those things unless they think those things about people. And that is a fact, Ted.
NUGENT: No, I don't think it is a fact. I take a lot of my cues from Bill Maher, you know, your left wing poster boy who used the same word to describe the great Sarah Palin. So, I think learning from that --
BURNETT: Well, it wasn't all right when he did it either.
NUGENT: No, you're right, it wasn't right. I think that was about seven years ago I said that on stage. It was during some of the most egregious violations and abuse of power and corruption that people like Hillary Clinton are responsible for. What she did in Benghazi, she should be in jail right now, along with Eric gun-running Holder, and a whole bunch of the crooks in our government.
So, I won't call them names, but I will try to better identify what is not a Ted Nugent thing. There's a huge swath of America and you're correct --
BURNETT: Ted, is this because you're afraid? I mean --
NUGENT: -- we need to have, we need to have civil --
(CROSSTALK)
BURNETT: Are you afraid, though, that people like Rick Perry, people like Rand Paul who tweeted out when you make the comment about "subhuman mongrel" --
NUGENT: Yes, yes.
BURNETT: -- and demanded an apology as he should have.
NUGENT: Yes, absolutely.
BURNETT: Those people came to you and said, we're not going to campaign with you anymore, we're not going to do things with you anymore, if you don't stop this? Is that what it took?
NUGENT: No, they didn't say that. They didn't say that at all. I don't -- you will not find that quote. So, be very careful, Erin Burnett, that you don't make things up like your cohorts.
BURNETT: Well, I know you said you didn't want to upset these men better than you and you were referring to people like Rick Perry and Greg Abbott.
NUGENT: But they never gave me directions like that. They never gave me directions. What I did is whether it's my wonderful wife, my brother Jeff and John or Kathy (ph), my great kids or someone like you, Erin, and people around me, they think I'll be more effective if I back off that Detroit street fighter rock 'n' roll stage rhetoric.
I'm here to tell you I'm going to do that, because I do respect people like Governor Rick Perry and the great Greg Abbott and Rand Paul and Ted Cruz. Because I represent a lot of the same people they do, believe it or not, I think I owe it to those great Americans to be more civil when I represent them.
So, I'm here on CNN -- on CNN, mind you, and I will be doing that more lately, coming up.
BURNETT: All right. So, when you tweeted today to Rand Paul, because Rand Paul demanded you apologize, said that your derogatory description of President Obama is offenisive and has not place in politics. You should apologize.
Once you saw the president used the word "mongrel" on "The View", you tweeted back at Rand Paul, "Hey, @RandPaul, let me know when you're ready to admit your blunder?" You're backing off that tweet?
NUGENT: No, I don't think that's uncivil by any stretch. I'm telling Rand Paul he should be careful not to take snapshots of an occurrence or incident or individual. He should pay attention to the big picture.
I consider Rand Paul a great American, and I feel terrible that I pissed him like that. But I got to tell you, when you speak the truth and represent very heart broken Americans -- you know, Erin, let me summarize like this. I hate that I have to be talking about this stuff. I want to respect my government and my president. I want to respect the office, but they have to deserve that respect.
And there is a culture war going on. I wish we didn't have to do this, but I think we do have to do this.
BURNETT: That's the problem a lot of people have, though.
NUGENT: I want to thank you and CNN for allowing me on the program to make my statement.
BURNETT: I will say that and you have made it. But I will say, you know, this president was fairly and democratically elected. He is the president of the United States. And like him or not, you must respect the office as an American who wants peace and security. That is my personal view, whether he's a Democrat or a Republican in office.
Ted, thank you very much. Appreciate seeing you again.
NUGENT: Thank you, Erin. God bless you and your kids and your husband.
BURNETT: Thank you, sir.
And still to come, a pilot survives a head on collision with a bird. Jeanne Moos with her special report, next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BURNETT: Here's Jeanne Moos.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JEANNE MOOS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Have you ever been startled by a bird flying into your window?
Now, imagine you're 1,000 feet up in the sky cruising on auto pilot.
The first thing pilot Rob Weber did was call mayday. He didn't know what hit him.
ROB WEBER, PILOT: All of a sudden, the windshield just exploded.
MOOS: Watch the impact at 170 miles per hour in slow motion.
WEBER: It was a slap in the face.
MOOS: Yes. Well, how do you think it felt to the bird?
And yes, that is an Angry Bird t-shirt Rob was wearing, one of his grandson's favorite games.
Rob was less than four minutes away from Paige Field Airport in Ft. Myers, Florida. He ducked down to get out of the wind. Part of the windshield hit his head. When he ran his hand over it, it came back bloodied.
He kept thinking about a line he heard as a student pilot. No matter what happens --
WEBER: Just fly the frickin plane.
MOOS: So he did.
Bird strikes are not unusual. Having one captured on camera is.
Just this past December, a Cessna, that had just taken off from an Illinois airport got goosed. Pilot and passenger managed to land without injury, to them at least.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That is not our blood.
MOOS: When Rob landed there was a fire truck waiting and compliments from the control tower.
CONTROL TOWER: You check in so calm.
MOOS: And a fellow pilot.
PILOT: Good flying.
MOOS: True, Rob will never be celebrated. Like Captain Sully Sullenberger, who lost power when both his engines ingested geese and he had to ditch in the Hudson, no one is going to hold up Rob's picture and sign saying "Rob, you rock".
Rob never lost engine power and instead of a 177 souls, he saved his own butt.
His relief was audible when he cut the engine.
As for our unfortunate, not so fine feathered friend --
(on camera): May the bird rest in peace, make that pieces.
(voice-over): Most of it never made it into the plane. But you see the foot in the cockpit.
WEBER: You also can see the foot going flying through the cabin go right past my head.
MOOS: Some of Rob's buddies suggest he wear it as a voodoo necklace, while another friend refers to Rob as Gorbachev. Mr. Gorbachev, tear down his wind shield.
Jeanne Moos, CNN, New York.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BURNETT: Anderson starts now.
