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Erin Burnett Outfront

Waiting For Underwater Drone To Emerge; Cell Phone Tower Detected Co-Pilot's Phone; More Than 100 Dead From Ebola Outbreak

Aired April 14, 2014 - 19:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST: Next, an underwater drone about to rise to the surface. Will it have pictures of the missing plane? We're going to hear directly from the man leading the American search effort.

Plus, a cell tower in Malaysia detected the co-pilot's cell phone searching for service before the flight vanished. What does that mean was happening inside the cockpit?

And a white supremacist accused of murdering three people outside Jewish centers in Kansas. An emotional tribute to the victims. Let's go OUTFRONT.

Good evening, everyone. I'm Erin Burnett. OUTFRONT tonight, two major developments in the disappearance of Malaysia Airlines Flight 370. First, as search planes take off at this hour, we are entering a crucial new phase in the search for the 777. An American underwater drone known as the Bluefin is right now more than 14,000 feet below the surface. It's been down there for about 12 hours mapping a small section of the South Indian Ocean. It's going to be starting to rise to the surface in another few hours.

The question is, what will we see when it rises? Investigators also awaiting test results from an oil slick. The slick was detected Sunday night about 3.4 miles downwind from where the possible black box pings were detected and they are checking that oil to see if it was linked to the plane. That also could be a huge breakthrough. In a moment, we're going to speak live to Captain Mark Matthews, who's leading the American recovery effort.

And another significant development though. That cell phone tower in Penang, Malaysia, this is where the co-pilot's cell phone was detected. Now, here's the crucial thing as you can see from the map, the signal picked up after the plane turned off course and well after radar communications were disabled.

Pamela Brown is OUTFRONT. Pamela, what are your sources telling you about this cell phone contact, I guess, is the best way to describe it?

PAMELA BROWN, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, well, Erin, I'm learning from my sources that essentially data was shared by the Malaysians with U.S. investigators a while ago indicating that the cell phone belonging to the first officer of Flight 370 was not turned off and it should have been. In fact, according to this data, the phone was on about half an hour after communication systems in the plane mysteriously shut off.

Now, this data is from a cell tower about 250 miles from where the plane turned around in Penang, Malaysia and it suggests that his was the only phone on the plane that was turned on. And aviation experts say it's standard operating procedure, Erin, for crews to turn off their phones, so it's highly unusual for the phone to be on in the cockpit, and there's no evidence at this point that the first officer tried to make a call.

We know investigators have been looking at phone records from the first officer, the captain, and the passengers, and, again, no evidence suggesting that any phone calls were made, so just because there was a detection, doesn't mean that a phone call was made. But this does refocus attention on the cockpit, Erin. What it doesn't tell us, however, who was alive, who was dead?

The phone could have made connection, but we don't know if he was alive or what was going on inside the cockpit. Also important to reiterate here, Erin, that this was information shared by Malaysian authorities with U.S. officials and highlights difficulty in covering the story, there are several agencies involved and we don't know how reliable this data is.

BURNETT: All right, well, Pamela, thank you very much. Obviously, significant details there. We're going to talk to a technology expert later in the show to see if they would have known the difference between a phone left on or a phone that got turned on or a phone that tried to make a call, crucial, crucial distinctions.

Well, search crews right now are focusing really the search under water. After almost a week with no new signal from what could be one of the plane's black boxes, the U.S. Navy's underwater drone, the Bluefin 21, is now underneath the water about three miles down a very small section of the South Indian Ocean. It has never been explored before. It's down there right now taking pictures trying to figure out what is there.

It took two hours just to get down there and it's mapping 15 square miles. That takes 16 hours. Then, it takes two hours to go back to the surface, and then four hours for crews to download the data. Painstaking is, perhaps, too soft of a word to describe the process.

Captain Mark Matthews is OUTFRONT tonight live in Perth, Australia where he has been overseeing the American recovery effort. Good to talk to you, sir. Really appreciate it. How high are your hopes right now for this Bluefin and the chances of finding the plane?

CAPTAIN MARK MATTHEWS, U.S. NAVY: Well, in an operation like this, you always need to maintain a positive attitude, and that can be difficult sometimes. That said, we need to, you know, kind of temper our enthusiasm here. This is a normal progression of events, you reach a point and after conducting towed pinger locator searches, then transition to the underwater portion. You know, we have no certainty or no probability that we're going to find detections on this first mission that the Bluefin is conducting, however, we are sweeping the area where we have the strongest indications that debris might be found. So time will tell what we see in that area.

BURNETT: So, captain, how would you feel if there was some sort of picture of the plane or debris, would you be utterly shocked to have found it?

MATTHEWS: That would be, you know, kind of a world first for one of these operations to come to completion that quickly. It would just be phenomenal if that were to happen.

BURNETT: And, Captain, as you were talking, I was getting the headline, which you probably are aware, spent six hours on the bottom, it's now back on the surface, the data is being extracted. So how long will it take for you to know what it saw down there?

MATTHEWS: It will take a few hours to go through that data, you know, technicians download that information from the vehicle. They then go through it using a computer, and what they are looking at is side scan sonar images. It's kind of analogous to taking a pregnant wife in for an ultrasound. The doctor is certainly better at reading what he's looking at than you or I would be sitting down looking at the screen, but that's what they are looking for, to see if there's any debris or items down there that would be characteristic of an aircraft debris field.

BURNETT: And how strange is it to you that there has been no debris seen on the surface? If the plane is down there, does it add up to you the fact that you haven't seen any debris on the surface?

MATTHEWS: You can explain it either way you want to, right, currently we're at day 39, so it's been 39 days since the aircraft was lost. This is a rough part of the ocean. Cyclone has passed through in the interim, so it would not be surprising to me if all the debris has been, you know, really scattered or, you know, has sunk, but, you know, compare to Air France Flight 447, it was day six after the loss of the aircraft they found the floating debris. I don't know if at day 39 that debris would have been floating.

BURNETT: Right now I know you're also in the process of analyzing a sample from that oil slick, I believe about three and a half miles downwind of where the black box pings, at least at this point seem to be detected. Do you know whether that oil is related to the crash? And I guess to the point about debris, would it shock you it was so nearby if that's the case?

MATTHEWS: For the oil, it would not shock me if we do have a good location on the aircraft debris field. It would not shock me to learn that oil came from lubricating fluid in the engine or control fluid in the aircraft's control systems. However, you know, that's why we're analyzing that sample, to see what kind of petroleum product it is, and if it is related.

BURNETT: All right, so you're still in the process of confirming that, right?

MATTHEWS: It's more we're analyzing rather than confirming. We have no idea what kind of petroleum product it is. It would be certainly one explanation if it came from the aircraft and if the debris field is located where we suspect it is. However, you know, it's not a certain indication, and there are certainly other explanations for why an oil sheen would be on the surface of the ocean.

BURNETT: And Captain Matthews, I just want to make sure we understand because the Bluefin-21, as we have been reporting, would be down there for up to 16 hours and then would take two hours to rise back to the surface. Obviously, the reporting we have right now is it spent six hours on the bottom and it's now already back on the surface. Can you tell us as to why? Is that what you had planned originally, did something go wrong, or how come the numbers don't seem to be the same?

MATTHEWS: Sure, I can explain that. There's certain abort criteria that the vehicle has as its executing its mission, if there's certain conditions that occur, it stops and it comes to the surface to communicate better to the team that's assigning its missions. And in this case, the vehicle's programmed to fly 30 meters over the floor of the ocean to get a good mapping of what's beneath and to the sides, and the chart we have for the area showed that water depth to be between the 4,200 and 4,400-meter depth.

It actually, as it was contouring itself to the bottom, 30 meters above, it went to 4,500 meters and once it hit that max depth, it said this is deeper than I'm programmed to be, so it aborted the mission to basically interface with the crew so they could refine the tasking.

BURNETT: So is the area now, I guess, it's deeper than you thought?

MATTHEWS: It happened in the very far corner of the area it's searching, so they are just shifting the search box a little bit away from that deep water and proceeding with the search.

BURNETT: And a question for you on the black boxes. There's been a constant reference, you know, Commander Marks referred to it as a pinger. Angus Houston has referred to "a pinger." Obviously, there were two black boxes on the plane, but the use of "a pinger" is very purposeful. Are you confident you're going to find both recorders or at this point, is it safe to say you'd only picked up signal from one?

MATTHEWS: It's very difficult to differentiate, you know, we can look at the signals that we received. We're not certain it came from an underwater locator beacon, the pinger, but it's certainly a manmade signal and we have no explanation for anything else to be down there. It's difficult to distinguish one pinger from the next if they are operating at the same frequency, so it's something that we look for.

You know, really we need to find one, and that's why there's two underwater locator beacons, typically two means one when you're in this kind of search business, because you can rely on the redundancy to give you at least one signal. In the Air France case, neither of the underwater locator beacons were operable for that wreckage.

BURNETT: All right, well, Captain Matthews, thank you very much. We really appreciate you are taking the time this morning as it is in Perth. You heard the breaking news from the captain, the drone right now that was supposed to be down for another four hours had to abort its mission today. It's already back on the surface with data being analyzed. The reason it had to abort its mission is the water ended up being deeper there than they thought. Beyond specifications of that drone. Obviously, significant development.

And OUTFRONT next is the maker of the Bluefin-21, the man in charge of that drone. What happened today, what can that drone actually get the job done and find the plane?

Plus, how low was the plane flying in order for the co-pilot's cell phone to connect to the cell tower? That obviously could be the single most crucial piece of information we've had in a long time. And another round of mixed message from the Malaysian government, this time about what happened inside the cockpit.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BURNETT: Breaking news in the search for Malaysian airlines flight 370.

Just moments ago, an underwater drone return to the surface of the Indian Ocean after its first attempt to locate the missing aircraft. It is called the Bluefin-21. It could be the searchers' best hope for finding the plane. But the ocean floor beneath the search area is completely unchartered. That's why it had to abort its mission and come up early today. It ended up all of the sudden being a lot deeper than they thought it was going to be and deeper than the Bluefin is able to technically operate.

Tom Foreman is OUTFRONT.

And Tom, we just heard the ocean floor was deeper than anticipated. They had no idea. This is just, I suppose, the tip of the proverbial iceberg in terms of the challenges here.

TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, it is, Erin. We talk about this something that you can just rush out there and do. As if it's no big deal. But this area of water out here, that there is about 1,400 miles away from Perth here, this area is known for being rough water, it's uncharted water, it's deep water. It's all sorts of things that make this difficult.

You know you have to operate this from a platform, a ship on the seas here. It's known for having storms out there. In the right conditions, simply launching and retrieving the Bluefin is a big job. It is not something you do lightly. And then once you go beneath the water, then you are going to do everything you're talking about.

Look. We draw out here and it looks simple, about three miles plus the biggest point, one and half over here. They think maybe this is somewhere down here around the two, two and a half, three-mile layer. They don't really know, but down here the pressure is unbelievably immense. It's just above freezing. It's pitch dark. And any communication between this robot down here and the ship has to travel through all this water and all the acoustic anomalies.

This is a huge and complicated task, Erin. Don't let the pictures fool you. Don't let the talk fool you. Getting this done for any piece of equipment is a huge and difficult job, especially when you don't know what the land is like.

BURNETT: All right, Tom, thank you very much.

And Tom talking about the immense pressure, you know. Someone described it to me the other day as the equivalent of putting a Cadillac escalade on one of your fingernails. That's the pressure at that depth.

Joining me now is David Kelly, president and CEO of Bluefin robotics, which is of course manufactures the underwater drone being used in the search and Bud Vincent, ocean engineer with the University of Rhode Island, a retired diver with the U.S. Navy.

Both of you, obviously, in the center of this.

But David, let me just start with you. We, obviously, just got the news just a moment ago breaking on this program from captain Matthews, in-charge of the U.S. search, saying the Bluefin had to abort its mission and come up early because it ended up it was deeper. It was deeper than they thought by about 330-so-odd feet. Does that concern you at all?

DAVID KELLY, PRESIDENT, CEO, BLUEFIN ROBOTICS: Well, frankly, Erin, although it's disappointing the mission ended early, it's not uncommon. We've operated these vehicles around the globe. It's not unusual to get into areas where the charts aren't accurate or you lack information. And the vehicles are designed to be conservative. There are safeties in them. There are checks in them so if they get into situations where the water is deeper than they thought or deeper than they have been programmed to operate, they will come back to the surface. The important thing is to keep the equipment moving and operational.

BURNETT: Bud, do you think it's going to work, the Bluefin will find, well, if there is a plane down there, be able to find it?

BUD VINCENT, OCEAN ENGINEER: If it's within the sonar detection range, I'm sure it will find it.

BURNETT: You think it will.

All right, now what about this issue of silt? I want to ask you this, but also ask this to David. Because, you know, we've been hearing, at least, what they do know about the surface at this point which is just incredibly large amount of silt, you know, hundreds and hundreds of years, perhaps, at the bottom that could be enough to cover, say, a plane. I mean, no one knows, but it could be. Would we be able to see it then?

VINCENT: It will be more difficult. When you have a silty bottom, any debris that sinks to the bottom will probably sink into the silt and instead of hitting what we call proud of the bottom so it's more easily detected and imaged with the side scan sonar, it could sink into the silt, no longer be visible and lee a depression or a hole. And then it's more difficult when you're analyzing the sonar imagery data to try and identify that as a possible debris field.

BURNETT: David, are you worried about silt as perhaps a bigger issue, even than depth?

KELLY: Well, as Bud points out, silt brings its own unique challenges, but we have operated these vehicles and their sensor pay loads on silty bottoms, on sandy bottoms, rocky bottoms. You will get different sonar returns at the tune the system slightly differently. It's a challenging environment.

BURNETT: David, do you have any other sense of what could have caused the issue today? I mean, they, obviously, captain Matthews was explaining to me, they programmed the Bluefin to fly about 30 meters above the ocean floor and then when it suddenly realized the ocean floor dropped down, it had to abort. But obviously, coming up significantly earlier than it was supposed to. Are you aware of any other possible issues there might have been?

KELLY: We have limited communications with the people operating the boat. But, you know, his scenario is quite plausible and happens quite often. The vehicle has a variety of limits that it monitors, one is the maximum depth that it's programmed to go to, which may be shallower than its maximum operating range, depending where you're operating. And then it does fly a certain height above the bottom to enable the sonars to image the bottom.

BURNETT: Bud, if this doesn't work, what's the next step? Is there a next step? Is there something else?

VINCENT: I think one of the things you could do is bring in a deep tow side scan sonar, potentially one with a lower frequency. My understanding is the system installed right now is operating somewhere above 100 kilohertz. There are 60 kilohertz systems and 30 kilohertz systems available that would allow you to search a much wider area in a shorter amount of time, which, of course, is something that you want to do when you're doing a wide area search.

Now, those systems are generally deep tow systems because they are going to be larger and may not be capable of being installed on an AUV like the Bluefin-21. The other option is bring more Bluefin-21 AUVs out so you get six of them operating in tandem, again, trying to increase the area coverage rate.

BURNETT: All right, thanks very much to both of you. Appreciate your time.

And still to come, new details about the motive. The copilot's cell phone is now in focus, so how long was the plane flying over for a cell tower to pick it up, and was he making a call or not? We're going to try to get a real answer to that question based on the technology.

Plus, doctors working to contain a deadly outbreak of Ebola. We are on the front lines. Dr. Sanjay Gupta at ground zero for the outbreak with an exclusive live report OUTFRONT.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BURNETT: Breaking news in the search for Malaysia airlines flight 370. Just moments ago, we were told the Bluefin-21, the underwater drone that was one of the searchers best hopes for finding the plane aborted the first mission, returned to the surface of the Indian Ocean hours earlier than expected because all of a sudden it turned out deeper there than they thought. We're learning new details tonight also about the copilot of flight 370 and his cell phone.

So here's what we know. A U.S. official is telling CNN the Farid Abdul Hamid's cell phone was on and made contact with the cell tower in Penang. So you see the route, right? It goes up straight, that's the projected route to Beijing, turns, and that, as you can see through the Penang cell phone tower is where it's searching for service. That's about 250 miles away from where the plane's transponder last sent a signal. So yes, 250 miles away from all communications system and that plane being turned off course.

Now, the officials says the phone was searching for service. But here 's what's really bizarre. Of the 238 people onboard that plane, apparently, only the copilot's phone pinged the tower. No other phone was detected.

I want to emphasize, that's what we know at this moment. Things change in this investigation.

I want to bring in our technology analyst Brett Larson though.

So, let's just start with the first question, we've all been on a plane and left our cell phone on. And in fact, I've been able to randomly make a call on like the California at almost cruising altitude. So my question to you is can you tell anything about the altitude which that plane was flying by this headline?

BRETT LARSON, CNN TECHNOLOGY ANALYST: When you look at the map of where that cell tower is, it actually makes more sense it was picked up there, because the cell towers that they place along the coasts and also in our country the cell towers in the middle of the country where people are spread out more, their signals tend to go farther. They are designs to go further so they have to put in less cell towers.

Usually, you need to be within about a mile of a cell tower, so about 5,000, 6,000 feet. I have had the same experience of being, you know, almost at altitude or coming down from altitude when you're coming in to land about 10,000 feet and have my cell phone have perfect signal, which is, again, entirely possible, cell phone signals, they leave the towers. They go up. They are high frequency radio transmission that tend to go towards the sky.

BURNETT: So probably 5,000 feet, because we just don't know the duration under of which they detected the signal. If it was quick, it could have been higher, I supposed.

LARSON: Absolutely.

BURNETT: But if it was longer, it would imply to been lower. LARSON: Right. And also, there is, you know, when a cell phone connects to a tower, several different things are happening. It is not could a hence, he was making a call. It can also just be as simple as saying, I'm here, and the cell tower is saying, I got you, I don't have enough signal for you, though.

BURNETT: So here's my question then. Obviously, this comes to questions of motive on what is going on, right? He either left his phone on, it goes in the range of this tower and picks it up, or he gets in the range of the tower and he turns it on, and three, some combination of the other two, but he makes a call. Can the cell phone company tell you which of those three it was?

LARSON: They can and they can't. They can if they go back to the airport and they say the last known handshake with his cell phone was at this time and the flight took off at this time, which would indicate going this fast taking off, you know, that's probably about the time he took off and when we lost connection to his phone.

BURNETT: Right.

LARSON: The other thing, if his phone was just left on, it would have hit another cell tower somewhere else, potentially, because they did fly over the entire country in that one route that we suspect they went on. There's multiple cell towers there that they could have hit at that time, so it's -- we need one more piece of information to give that a solid answer.

BURNETT: And we should emphasize to our viewers, from our reports and other reports on this topic over the last few days, you know, one tower has not ruled out whether it contacted other towers or not. And that obviously, this could be one of the most important developments in this story.

OUTFRONT next, though, the mixed messages from the Malaysian government. They have change their story again about what happened in the cockpit.

And three people dead after a white supremacist opened fire in a Jewish community center in Kansas. The man who interviewed the alleged shooter before the attack is OUTFRONT tonight.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BURNETT: Breaking news in the search for Malaysia Airlines Flight 370. Just moments ago, an underwater drone aborted its first mission, going back to the surface early after trying to locate the missing aircraft. This comes as we're learning new details about the copilot's cell phone and a possible final communication.

According to officials, a cell tower near Penang, Malaysia, detected the copilot's cell phone was on. At the same time, the plane went missing with 239 people onboard. I should emphasize, missing from radar. It was already 250 miles off course at that time and all its communications systems had been turned off. Nic Robertson is in Kuala Lumpur. And, Nic, you've been getting asking Malaysia officials about the cell phone signal and I know you've been getting conflicting answers, so what can you tell us tonight?

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, this is another one of those things that seems to give us where Malaysian officials have given us conflicting, or at least non-convincing answers. We asked the defense minister, who's the acting transport minister, the Malaysian face, if you will, of the investigation here, about that connection to the cell phone tower, was a cell phone call made was the question. This is what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HISHAMMUDDIN HUSSEIN, MALAYSIAN ACTING TRANSPORTATION MINISTER: As far as I know, no, but like I said, that would be in the realm of the police, and the international agencies. And when the time comes, that will be revealed, but I do not want to speculate on that at the moment.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ROBERTSON: Now, you might just notice there he rubs the back of his ear during that statement. Some analysts will tell you that means he is less than convinced in what he's saying, but it's just an indication that getting facts from officials here is often very, very hard, straightforward questions don't do the trick. One thing this connection with the cell phone tower may add additional information, the flight and locate -- the altitude and location of Flight 370. It -- we were told radar information said that it was about 4,000 to 5,000 feet above sea level, 80 miles away from the location of the cell phone tower that picked up this cell phone. So clearly it does seem there is more to learn about the altitude of the aircraft as it passed over the Malaysian peninsula, Erin.

BURNETT: All right. Nic Robertson, thank you very much.

I want to bring in our aviation analysts Les Abend and Jeff Wise, along with ABC "World News" aviation analyst, John Nance.

All right. Thanks to all of you.

John, what do you -- what do you make of this? I mean, obviously, this is after the transponder is turned off, after the ACARS turned off, after the plane is well off course, and they are saying it's just the copilot's cell phone that picked up the tower, I just simply do not understand that. There's 238 other phones on that plane, at least.

But what do you make of this?

JOHN NANCE, ABC WORLD NEWS: It's tantalizing. That's about all we can say right now because there's so much we don't know, we don't know whether or not the phone was on from takeoff and left it on, usually that's not the case because you don't want to run the battery out. We don't know if he was trying to make the call or just a handshake connection.

And also, and I really think, it's rather puzzling that nobody else on the airplane with cell phones and probably all of them have them, made such a connection. So I really don't know what to make of this, other than to this point we probably have to be cautious.

BURNETT: Right. I mean, it seems -- it seems that would be the bottom line, we clearly don't have all the facts, because if it was you're flying really low and a phone already turned on established connection with a cell phone tower, it would be more than one cell phone on that plane, whether the people who had the cell phones were dead or alive is not the point, there would be more than one connection.

So, we clearly don't know all the data here?

LES ABEND, CNN AVIATION ANALYST: You and I have been skeptical about this from the beginning. Yes, we don't know if the cell phone was turned off prior to departure, whether it was left on, like we talked about.

And 80 miles out, I mean, that's a lot. Even -- some of us had got some signals where we miraculously got some cell phone calls out at high altitudes, but I went through this on a trip, this scenario, with the copilots that I flew with. We went through every aspect of it and this puts the copilot maybe outside of the door if we're going to go to the nefarious route, then what, he's the only survivor because he's the only cell phone to activate, or he's in the cockpit -- just doesn't make a lot of sense.

BURNETT: Well, here's a question, John, and all of you are pilots, but at 5,000 feet, in the dark flying over the Malaysia peninsula, this is a red eye, would the passengers have known they were at 5,000 feet, i.e., would they have any sense -- I mean, if it was a very gradual turn and gradual dissent or they were told there was traffic, is there a possibility they wouldn't have known anything was wrong and hence wouldn't have been trying to communicate with people?

NANCE: It's unlikely that they would have been completely aware and what the altitude is, but they have been aware that something was going on because of the air popping that would have been going on, even if the cabin had not been raised --

BURNETT: All right. That's an interesting point, Jeff. So, what do you think when you all this adds up says? Again, we don't know yet whether the phone was on or turned on or that he was trying to communicate. That, obviously, within those answers, lies a lot. But we don't know.

WISE: Tells us a lot about the nature of the investigation that this fact must have been known for a long time.

I mean, for weeks, we've been hearing, nope, there was no communication between the passengers and cell phone towers on the ground, and now all of a sudden, this thing pops up? It's strange that we're hearing about this now, I think, but it does seem to comport with the idea that we were hearing last week that the plane descended to 4,000 or 5,000 feet. I mean, that at least would seem to jive --

BURNETT: Which is important, Les, because we've been told so many things about the altitudes of this plane, up to 45,000, down to 23,000, down 5,000, altitudes all over the map. This would seem to say that at least some of that is true.

ABEND: If, indeed, it was down there. Of course, there's a good possibility it could have picked up a cell phone signal, but what is -- it still doesn't -- it just adds more mystery to the riddle. What did -- what was the copilot attempting to do? Was it just on?

WISE: Doesn't tell us. Doesn't narrow down the range of possibilities.

ABEND: No, I think it adds to the mystery, it really does.

BURNETT: What do you think, John, does it narrow down anything to you?

NANCE: I don't think so. Again, I think it's tantalizing, but you could go in about so many different directions with this in terms of if this, then that, if that then this. Putting on my fiction writers, I could go all over the map with it and still not come to any conclusion.

BURNETT: I mean, I guess the bottom line question, will we ever know what happened in that cockpit if we do not find the flight -- sorry, the cockpit voice recorder? Even if you find the flight data recorder and you find the planes, which at this point are big ifs. I assume that happens, you don't have a voice recorder.

ABEND: I think we might have a good idea with the digital flight data recorder on the script that might have been transpiring during that whole process.

BURNETT: But you wouldn't know if it was the pilot or copilot, would you?

ABEND: It would be difficult, but I think it may be known who was manipulating controls at that particular -- even with the digital flight data recorder. I'm not a forensic expert with that, but I think it's possible.

BURNETT: John, do you agree with that, we'd be able to ascertain who?

NANCE: I think we've got a pretty good chance. But let me make this point, the Malaysian authorities said they vetted all, what, 229 people not part of the crew and the crew other than the pilots and they couldn't be responsible.

I don't buy that. I don't buy that. We had two people on with fake passports, how many other people might we have had on there who really don't know, and don't know whether or not one of them was a pilot? I mean, so everything is still out in the open.

The problem is, neither the captain or first officer really had a profile that leads us to believe they would have done this, and yet they had the expertise.

BURNETT: Yes. All right. Thanks very much to all three of you, as the mystery deepens.

Still to come, a deadly outbreak of Ebola. Doctors are raising against time to contain the virus, to try to prevent a worldwide spread.

CNN's Sanjay Gupta is live from guinea, which is ground zero, with an exclusive live report OUTFRONT.

And three people dead after a white supremacist allegedly opens fire on two Jewish communities in Kansas. Tonight, we'll hear from a man who interviewed the accused before the attack.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BURNETT: New details tonight in the tragic murder of three people at a Jewish community center and assisted living facility outside of Kansas City. Investors are calling it a hate crime after an alleged gunman opened fire yesterday afternoon at two Jewish facilities on the eve of Passover. The murderer shouting "Heil Hitler" from a police car after he was arrested. He has a long and hateful history of anti- Semitism.

According to the Southern Poverty Law Center, he was the founder and former leader of the Carolina Knights of the Ku Klux Klan and the White Patriot Party.

Ed Lavandera is OUTFRONT tonight in Overland Park, Kansas, with more on the story.

Ed, you know, I was watching to the woman speak, who was both a daughter and a mother of two of the people killed, the boy and his grandfather. It was pretty incredible to watch.

ED LAVANDERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Incredibly powerful. I was there this afternoon when she spoke, and it's really powerful and painful to really juxtapose the hate-filled background of the suspect in this case with what these three victims were essentially doing, which was the loving things that families do every day across the world. You have 53-year-old Terry LaManno who was coming to an assisted living facility to visit her own mother. This is a woman who worked with visually impaired children for the last eight years, a mother in her own right. She was supposed to be celebrating her 25th wedding anniversary tomorrow.

Then you have a grandfather bringing his grandson to a singing competition. Grandfather there, to root on 14-year-old Reat Underwood. Reat's mother attended a vigil last night in Kansas City and went because she heard a lot of her son's friends had showed up there and that's why she wanted to go, to be a part of that. But she spoke with us earlier today about her father and her son that she lost so tragically yesterday.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MINDY LOSEN, FATHER & SON WERE KILLED IN SHOOTING: As I pulled up, I saw that he was lying on the ground, and my first thought was he had a heart attack, you know, just lying there. But very quickly I realized that it wasn't that, and I knew that my dad was in heaven within seconds.

WILL CORPORAN, FATHER & NEPWER WERE KILLED IN SHOOTING: You know, no one believes this will happen to you, to your family. I know that my dad would have given anything if it could have just been him. He'd have stood up and just said, take me.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LAVANDERA: A lot of people reaching out to those family members today. The suspect in this case, charges have not been filed against him yet. He could face state murder charges, as well as federal hate crime charges, and those charges could start coming as early as tomorrow -- Erin.

BURNETT: All right. Ed, thank you very much.

And the shooter has been identified as 73-year-old Frazier Glenn Cross is his name. And I want to bring in David Pakman. He interviewed him on his radio show and joins me now.

That's why we want to -- let me just ask you the question -- why did you decide to interview this man? He has been known as having a hateful and violent past.

DAVID PAKMAN, INTERVIEWED ALLEGED KILLER: Well, at the time he was running for Senate in Missouri, he had an incredibly racist anti- Jewish ad that was running in Missouri. It seemed like this was someone who must have an incredible story that explains how they came to have these beliefs, how does someone get to this point, extremism is something we talked about on my program quite a bit. And whether it's religious extremism, homophobia, racism, et cetera, I'm interested in what's the source of that.

BURNETT: And he had all of those things, and, obviously, his hate was directed at Jews. You're Jewish, and this came up, and I want to just play the exchange between you and he.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PAKMAN: How can I get in on this power? I'm Jewish, I feel completely powerless. Who can I talk to, where can I go, where are the meetings? I would love to get in on that power myself.

FRAZIER GLENN CROSS, ALLEGED SHOOTING SUSPECT: Well, you were born with it. All the big Jews discriminate in favor of other Jews. That's why there's so many Jews in the mass media, for example. PAKMAN: But why --

CROSS: Why there are so many Jews in the federal government.

PAKMAN: But I'm powerless. Where can I --

CROSS: You're not powerless. You're not powerless. You got your own damn radio show, you're on 70 radio stations. You call that powerless?

PAKMAN: Believe me, I have no power.

CROSS: Yes, right. That's what Howard Stern said. He's a Jew liar just like you are.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BURNETT: Were you ever concerned for your own safety. This person was implicated in another murder of a liberal Jewish radio host.

PAKMAN: Liberal Jewish radio host in 1984. He only served three years with that.

Yes. You know, with all of these extremists, I think they are all on the edge of rhetoric becoming real world violence. So, a lot of people asked me if there was any sign he was ready to go further. We had evidence from 1984 he had gone further but at the time, there was nothing to make him stand out from the other extremists.

BURNETT: I mean, you interviewed a lot of people because you focus on this issue of extremism. Where did he rank? Was he someone that was off the charts or no?

PAKMAN: He was certainly near the top when it comes to how angry he was. Many times, I'll interview homophobes, extreme religious zealots, et cetera.

And while the rhetoric is incredibly hateful, towards me, they're very nice. So, typically, they want to help people. Many times, he wants to save people.

He told me in no uncertain term that even though I never met him, even though I never said specific to him or wronged him, merely because I was Jewish he didn't like me. That was actually an outlier.

BURNETT: And here's -- you asked him do you hate me because I'm Jewish. Here's what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CROSS: I hate all Jews.

PAKMAN: OK.

CROSS: And I'll tell you why. For me to say out of one corner of my mouth I didn't hate all Jews and then out of the other corner of my mouth and say that Jews caused deliberate murders of over 300 million of my people alone --

PAKMAN: Right. OK.

CROSS: Of course, I hate you. You earned my hate. I hate all Jews.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BURNETT: It's incredible when you hear that and you look at this person who only served as you say three years in jail for vetting a murder of somebody at this person was actually out and able to do what he just did.

PAKMAN: It is incredible. And I think it's really easy when you sit behind a mic microphone, when you're behind the camera, you get a little bit insulated or desensitized both to graphic and violent images, but also to extremism. And I think this happens to anybody who interviews people that are so far in the political spectrum to one side.

And this is incredibly unfortunate and it instantly brings you back and it reminds you that just because you're behind the microphone doesn't mean these people aren't real.

BURNETT: Well, that -- it's incredible that those things were being said and this person was still out living a normal life and as you say interviewed a lot of people who like that. So maybe it's a wake up call.

Thank you very much, David. We appreciate it.

PAKMAN: Thank you.

BURNETT: OUTFRONT next, a story that only CNN can tell a deadly untreatable time of Ebola virus is now in outbreak. Doctors are desperately trying to contain it. Dr. Sanjay Gupta is on the scene. Literally, the Ebola, you'll see it in a cooler. That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BURNETT: Tonight, doctors in West Africa struggling to stop an outbreak of the deadly and untreatable Ebola virus. It's spreading fast. In a moment, we're going to go like to Conakry, Guinea where our Dr. Sanjay Gupta is standing by. First, though, his exclusive report.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): A simple blue box, potentially carrying one of the most dangerous pathogens in the world on its way to be tested. In less than four hours, we'll find occupant whether it contains the Ebola virus. The fate of three patients depends on what's inside. Simply getting the blood samples is a life threatening job.

One of these workers told us he has a 9-month-old baby at home. They will do everything they can to protect themselves -- three pairs of gloves, boots, layer after layer of gowns. They go in to see the patients. Every single inch of their body covered, impermeable suits, nothing in, nothing out.

You see, even a drop of the Ebola virus that gets in a break in your skin can infect you and we all have breaks in our skin.

(on camera): This is painstaking detail and process you have to go through to be able to interact with these patients with Ebola. This is a close as we can get. They are decontaminating themselves but they've taken the blood samples and put them in this blue ice chest over here and it's highly suspicious that contains Ebola.

(voice-over): WHO lab technicians suit up next. They've just been hand-delivered the blue boxes. Now, it's their job to test the samples to the deadly virus. They're going to have the results two hours from now.

But a few years ago, being able to test for Ebola on its own turf was impossible. Precious blood samples had to be taken out of remote forested areas in central Africa and flown to the CDC in Atlanta or the WHO in Geneva. Pilots would sometimes refuse to fly the dangerous pathogens and if they did, it could take days or weeks to get the results.

Eight p.m., we get the call.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So two of these are positive.

GUTFELD: So, two of the three patients now have confirmed Ebola.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

GUPTA: You know, one thing I want to point out, Erin, is that there's what's known as an incubation period. What that means is between the time someone's exposed and the time they develop symptoms that can be anywhere from two to 21 days. Here's the issue. We're in the Conakry. It's a capital city with an international airport. You have patients who have been expose to Ebola, could they possibly get on an international flight and fly around the world.

It's a real concern. It's not likely to happen but it's a real concern. I'm here at the medicine, the Doctor Without borders camp where they have isolation wards. That's one of their concerns and that's what they are trying to prevent, Erin.

BURNETT: Quickly before we go, how are you staying healthy, making sure that it couldn't incubate in you?

GUPTA: Yes, you know, look, it makes you nervous covering a story like this. No question. But it's worth pointing out Ebola is not an airborne virus. I mean, I'm here just outside of these isolation wards. Don't need to wear a mask because this isn't something that's in the air. Just be very careful not to come in contact with it. We'll talk more specifically how to do that tomorrow night, Erin.

BURNETT: All right. Thank you. We're looking very much forward to that. Thanks very much to Dr. Sanjay Gupta for that brave reporting.

Anderson starts now.