Return to Transcripts main page
Erin Burnett Outfront
Bluefin-21 On Third Attempt After Aborted Missions
Aired April 16, 2014 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST: Next, new questions tonight about why the Navy's best hope for finding the plane has turned up nothing. Is the search in jeopardy?
Plus, tragedy at sea. A ship full of teenagers on a high school trip sinks, 300 are missing tonight. Why were they told not to move as the boat sank?
And first on CNN, new video of al Qaeda leaders meeting out in the open. Why a new policy of the president may have prevented a drone strike taking out those terrorists. Let's go OUTFRONT.
Good evening, everyone. I'm Erin Burnett. OUTFRONT tonight, the search for Flight 370 in jeopardy. The Bluefin underwater drone hunting at this instant after two attempts now were cut short. Why isn't it working? The Bluefin, which is supposed to stay in the water for 20 hours a dive was raised after only 11 hours this morning. Official says a piece of the Bluefin's equipment was low on oil. How can that happen?
Also, major delays, it's been three days since we heard about an oil slick in the search zone. Only now is the oil finally arriving at a lab in Western Australia for testing.
Michael Holmes begins our coverage in Perth tonight. Michael, the air search just resuming at this hour where you are. But obviously more than 40 days in now, no debris proven to be from the plane. When are we expecting the next update from the Bluefin?
MICHAEL HOLMES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, we're expecting an update any hour, really. It's normally in this hour, in fact, Erin, that we get the update from the search headquarters. As for the Bluefin itself, we'll probably hear about that once it is up and they start downloading the data. This is, as you said, the third mission for Bluefin. We've heard of no difficulties so far as opposed to the first two missions.
Both of which were cut short by some technical difficulties. The first one was actually because of a software fail-safe that is in the Bluefin saying that when you get to 4500 meters, two and a half miles down there, come up. You're too deep. Well, they tweaked that software. So that's not going to happen again. It can go deeper now.
The second one was a bit of a problem with some oil pressure in one of the -- again, fail-safe things that protects the electronics. They got it up. They got it fixed, down again. The key on both of those previous missions is that they did get data off and it showed nothing. So that's a bit of a concern, obviously.
But this was always going to be a long process. You mentioned the air and sea search. It is continuing. We were told three days ago now that they were going to wind that down this week. But every day those planes have been going out. And the ships are still out there. Even though they haven't found anything.
And the oil that you mentioned, that has taken a while. You got to remember that this is 1600 kilometers, a thousand miles offshore. What they did is they sent a ship out to that area. They flew a helicopter with the oil sample to the ship. The ship got closer to shore. The helicopter brought it ashore. It's being examined. We're hoping to hear in the next three hours or so what that oil is, and if it's related to the missing jet -- Erin.
BURNETT: All right, well, thank you very much, Michael. As we said reporting live from Perth. And I'm actually looking at my Blackberry right now, waiting to see when that alert does come in. It usually does come at this time. We may get an update on exactly what the Bluefin found. So we'll keep our eye on that.
In the meantime, Richard Quest joins me along with our aviation analysts, Arthur Rosenberg and Jeff Wise. Let's talk about the seat of the search. Richard, let's talk about this oil slick. From your reporting, what are they going to be able to ascertain? Let's say it tests positive for it is jet fuel there are lots of reasons jet fuel might be around. It's unclear. Will they be able to tell it comes from this plane?
RICHARD QUEST, CNN AVIATION CORRESPONDENT: Well, first of all, the jet fuel question is a particularly interesting one because if the plane flew to endurance, the tanks were empty. The thing left the sky because it ran out of jet fuel.
BURNETT: So there wouldn't be enough to have a noticeable slick 40 days later is what you're saying?
QUEST: It's an interesting question whether or not that would be jet fuel. Jet fuel also is not thick. It's very light. It creates a sheen on the top of the water and that's what they were talking about when they found it. That it wasn't some thick oil. Angus Houston specifically saying he did not believe it was from ships. However, there are other parts of the machinery that does have oil, more traditional oil.
BURNETT: I guess my question is let's say it test positive and there are other reasons you might have random fuel slicks around. So could they tell, well, this fuel pump filled up this jet, and therefore we can back into this is fuel from this flight?
QUEST: They will get very close.
BURNETT: OK. QUEST: There is not a -- they're going back to look at the origin and the source. Of course, it's all gone now, but they will be able to. You would not expect to find JP-4 in the middle of the ocean in such quite a way.
ARTHUR ROSENBERG, CNN AVIATION ANALYST: I would add to that, I think the entire world is looking for something, something that is indicative of a jet airplane.
BURNETT: Yes. Because no one can understand why there is no debris. Let's be honest. Even the experts who try to explain it away are a bit confounded.
ROSENBERG: It's inexplicable. If it turns out that this is JP-4 --
BURNETT: Which is a certain kind of jet fuel here.
ROSENBERG: Which is jet fuel, then I think that's a very important clue in establishing that, yes, a jet airplane went down in that area.
BURNETT: All right, so that would be crucial. Jeff, what about this issue of the Bluefin? Two technical glitches. So far we don't know of one today. It may come up and we get more time that it was down on the bottom. Why do they only have one Bluefin searching? Granted, they're $5 million each, but if you're doing a project like this, why don't you have all the Bluefins in the world hunting around?
JEFF WISE, CNN AVIATION ANALYST: When they searched for Air France 447, they had three similar types of AUVs at work. There are many of these things. There are dozens of different kinds of AUVs that are made. It's a question of what is available. The resources -- listen, if it was deemed imperative to have a dozen of these things scouring the bottom, you can be sure that there would be a dozen scouring.
BURNETT: How is it not deemed imperative at this point given the whole world is watching? Given these families do not know?
ROSENBERG: To me, this smacks of playing in a World Series game with half the team on the field. Maybe you're going to win. Maybe you're not going to win. They're in the World Series now of the greatest airplane mystery investigation ever.
BURNETT: And one puny little Bluefin sailing around, Richard.
QUEST: Hang on, hang on. Let's just have a moment of reason here, Arthur. First of all -- it's not got problems.
ROSENBERG: It's a rehab. It's reconditioned.
QUEST: But it's not got problems. It worked perfect. It got to 4,500 meters. If they had five weeks to get a Bluefin and get it out this. In the Air France example, they had several to find where they could get them to contract for them, to get them to the slot. So I have no doubt that God forbid this goes on, next year we will have more resources. But at the moment, it was all that was available. Houston pretty much said that. BURNETT: And these things, everyone knew they cost $5 million. They're used for scientific research. They're not just sitting around, all right, Arthur, they're not just sitting around. They're being used.
ROSENBERG: But there are other less expensive vehicles that can do the same thing like a towed side-scanning sonar equipment and there are hundreds of these around the world. Clearly, they have to be towed behind a ship. They're lowered down on a cable. And if you use them, they have the added benefit of giving you information real-time. With this device, the Bluefin, it's two hours down. They call it going down the elevator, 16 hours at the bottom --
BURNETT: That's like a mine shaft.
ROSENBERG: Two hours up and then four hours on the ship downloading the information.
BURNETT: Is it possible they're only using one Bluefin because they have more information than they're releasing and they actually know --
QUEST: I don't think so. I think what we're look at here is something that was -- a plan. Remember, the "Ocean Shield" set sail several weeks ago to get into the area.
BURNETT: Yes.
QUEST: You're looking at a plan that was put together in a great hurry to get what you could in the position that you could at the time that you could. And now, of course, there is more time for people to start looking and seeing what needs to be done with a bit more reflection of time. But everything that you're looking at out there at the moment was done fast.
BURNETT: All right, well, there is the state -- now they're touching each other.
WISE: It should be enough. The Bluefin should be enough. The area is not that big where. The four pings are found is only about 12 miles square that should be the work of a few days, maybe a work to search the core area. We've been hearing about an area the size of Chicago. So they're going to look at a broader area than that, but the real key core --
BURNETT: All right, well, that of course is the where is the plane and whether the search is in jeopardy, but now why is it there? OUTFRONT next, investigators focusing on that co-pilot phone. We're going to talk about -- now when they touch, it will be with a fist.
Plus, scanning the ocean floor. We have a live demonstration of exactly how that looks and why it's so difficult because remember, it is pitch dark down there.
And breaking news tonight. A ship carrying hundreds of teenagers on a school trip sinks in the middle of the ocean, a giant ship. Nearly 300 still missing. They were told not to move. We're live at the scene.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BURNETT: Breaking news, we have just learned the release just came in. The Bluefin-21 has completed its first full mission in the search area. Obviously a significant headline. It has now searched 35 square miles, according to the statement that I have right here. In addition, the oil sample they say has arrived in Perth and is in the midst of detailed testing and analysis. Yet those results are not available at this time.
Bluefin completing its first full mission. What did it see? Did it see the plane? That is under analysis now. As we await that headline, we get to the question of why the plane was there. Tonight, the co-pilot's mobile phone key in the investigation into Flight 370's disappearance.
Officials tell CNN there are new questions about the 27-year-old's phone. The Malaysian government investigating whether his phone connected with other towers along the flight path. We reported there was one tower, but obviously there is a whole lot more towers. Did it hit others? If not, had he just turned it on for some reason? And why was the co-pilot's phone detected? Pamela Brown is OUTFRONT. Pamela, what are you learning tonight?
PAMELA BROWN, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Erin, sources are trying to put this piece of information about the co-pilot's cell phone into context and figure out what it means. Technology experts we've been speaking to say if his phone connected with that one cell tower near Penang, as you mentioned, it should it have connected with other nearby cell towers.
And experts also saying it must have been flying well below cruising altitude in order for the phone to make connection with the tower. Also, Erin, we know from a recent survey, about 30 percent of people forget to turn their phones off when flying. So, if any passengers had their phones on, assuming they did and not in airplane mode, they too should have pinged that cell tower. And of course, one of the biggest questions this all raises was this going on from the beginning of the flight or was this turned on right before it hit that cell tower which is about half an hour after the plane's communication systems is seriously shutoff.
But with all these information, I just want to make it clear here, Erin, that sources are saying there is no indication that any phone calls were made. So even though if the copilot's phone did connect with that cell tower and he tried to make a phone call for help, which we just don't know what the situation was, that call wouldn't have necessarily gone through. You have to think how fast that plane was going.
And also to put it in the context, this is information handed over from the Malaysians to U.S. officials. It's just one very tiny piece of the puzzle. Hard to know what it means without more information.
BURNETT: Absolutely, Pamela. And of course, Pamela doing great reporting there. And that the big question is they tells us a little bit, then it changes, or they tell you more. I mean, there is one thing we know. They know a lot more than this one little piece about this phone.
Richard Quest and Arthur Rosenberg are with us.
Now Arthur, even given that, given that we know there is a lot we don't know and that is a small piece of this, this you say is not coincidence the copilot's cell phone was on.
ARTHUR ROSENBERG, CNN AVIATION ANALYST: Right. And to get to that point, I say that you have to look at this new crumb of information. The Malaysians have been trickling out these crumbs. Some are good crumbs. They lead to the cheese. The other ones aren't so good.
But you have to look at this in the context of what we know. So what do we know? You start at 1:07. ACARS makes the last report. Twelve minutes, we have the now famous communication, "good night Malaysia 370." Two minutes later, the plane becomes invisible makes the left turn, heads for a beeline across the Malay Peninsula. And now, we find out that there is a handshake between the copilot's cell phone and a cell tower over Penang. And what's so in to that, that the communication, that formal communication attributed to the captain means the copilot's flying. So just let's extend it out over 30 minutes.
(CROSSTALK)
BURNETT: What they had said, good night Malaysia 370. They said that was the pilot. The analysis now, they're saying is the pilot. Earlier it was copilot. You're saying because it was the pilot, the copilot was flying the plane, hence wouldn't have been on his phone.
ROSENBERG: Exactly. And the first thing they do, when they pull back from the gate, they have a final checklist. Ladies and gentlemen, turn them off. It's also true for the cockpit crew. So, I believe that contact, that handshake, no talking, the handshake between the cell phone and the tower not a coincidence. Very significant.
BURNETT: What do you think, Richard? Especially given the fact that they leaked out this little teeny piece of information. Which if it were irrelevant from the other analysis, you wouldn't think they would do.
RICHARD QUEST, CNN AVIATION CORRESPONDENT: We don't know. You have added plus one plus one and you have come up with half a dozen. We don't know the significance. I know pilots that have left their phones on in the cockpit. You know that too.
BURNETT: But wouldn't they say it hit other cell phone towers? Why this only one? Why this bizarre leak?
QUEST: It's a leak. It's another leak. And the same sense that you -- they haven't said wrongly so, I believe, they should have said by now, who was actually saying good night Malaysia 370. We've never had the official wording on that. BURNETT: That's right.
QUEST: Which is why I caution, I am very suspect about this phone, this handshake of the copilot's phone. Because we also don't know because we haven't been told or it hasn't been looked into, were other passengers' phones handshake? We don't know.
BURNETT: OK, here is the thing. By definition, they were, if his was. I'm just saying by definition they were. Everyone on this plane had a cell phone. A lot of people had two. And by definition, they were not all turned off. So if they flew by a tower and his picked up, somebody else's was. Just doing deductive logic here.
QUEST: All right, that's very good. And by accident flying back from London yesterday I left my blackberry on for a short while and sure enough, it kept, e-mails came in.
ROSENBERG: And the FAA has done studies that 30 percent of the people on any flight.
BURNETT: There is no question. Everybody watching knows that.
ROSENBERG: Not intentionally --
QUEST: Which is exactly against your own argument.
ROSENBERG: No, no. No.
QUEST: Of course it is.
ROSENBERG: But that is looking at facts, like you love to do, in isolation. And I am looking at this as a factual continuum.
QUEST: It adds up to the answer you want to receive, Arthur.
ROSENBERG: No.
QUEST: You've got the conclusion in your own mind and you're making the facts fit that solution.
ROSENBERG: I think the facts fit a plausible scenario of significance, beginning at 1:07, including that cell phone hit with that Penang tower.
BURNETT: We'll hit pause there. All I can say is it's bizarre they would only leak this little thing. And U.S. officials are just confirming the one thing. Do U.S. officials know more or they are not being told more? Something stinks.
We're standing by for the results from the latest underwater search. I can tell you the breaking news that we have right now is that the Bluefin did complete its first day. We have just learned that, so far searching 35 square miles. We have a live demonstration of what it's like to scan the ocean floor next.
And a story first reported here on CNN. Video of Al-Qaeda's top leaders. They boldly met out in the open. Was there a reason? Did they know there had been a change in policy in Washington that would prevent a U.S. drone from taking them out?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BURNETT: Breaking news in the search for Malaysia flight 370. The Bluefin-21 underwater drone, we can confirm has now completed its first full underwater search mission. That is significant.
And all in, we are just finding out it has searched approximately 35 square miles in total. The air search today continuing. They're searching another 16,000 miles by air. And they say they are planning for the Bluefin's next mission. What it saw underwater, we're waiting for the analysis of whether it saw the plane.
Two earlier missions were cut short due to technical problems. This is the first time they've had all of that full 16 hours of footage.
Stephanie Elam is off the coast of Santa Barbara, California with a demonstration of what it might be seeing, how it is scanning the ocean floor.
And Stephanie, I mean, they're using this AUV in the Indian Ocean. It's obviously had a lot of challenges so far. How difficult is it to operator? We talk about it taking pictures there are really pictures with sonar, right?
STEPHANIE ELAM, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Exactly. It's like images that we're looking at here. It's listening for the images in a way. Erin, and that's why we brought you back out here to the Santa Barbara harbor, so we can show you how this technology works.
I want to introduce you to James Coleman. He is the senior Hydrographer with Teledyne Reson.
And James, these conditions are difficult, aren't they?
JAMES COLEMAN, HYDROGRAPHER, TELEDYNE RESON: They are indeed. And it's not really just difficult for the sonar, it's difficult for the entire operation. You got to get -- because of that massive depth you have you to get the sonar way down deep, which means you have navigation issue, communication issues and just vehicle control issues in diving that far.
ELAM: So, in a quick synopsis here, how does sonar work?
COLEMAN: Right. So, this is an example of the type of sonar. This is a multi-beam sonar. It is 7125. They're using side-scan sonar right now. Also, operate in a fundamental principle of emitting sound out. As that sound bounces off of the sea floor, they receive it and then they build an image of what is on the sea floor using that sonar.
ELAM: And so, that's how they get it.
Now, they're using sonar that is made by your company. It's a different kind. But can you show on what's this mapping looks like when they get that image back? Can we go inside and look at that, so we get an idea of how they are able to collect these data and what they do with it.
COLEMAN: Right. So first of all, they're building a -- we've already seen this mow the lawn pattern. And that's what we've been doing here today. So, we have a grid pattern here. The boat is over here. We've been mowing along and slowly building up a map of different things that are on the sea floor using the sonar.
This is what the mission planning they have done on the AUV. But the data itself, this is what side-scan sonar data looks like. It's looking out from the sensor to the side. The sound goes through the water column, hits the sea floor and moves out. As it moves out, it's building up an image of what is on the sea floor. At the moment there is nothing particularly down there. But as things show up, we'll see an image of what is on the sea floor.
ELAM: And so, Erin, as they get that image, it's a slow process that they go through and they build up this map of what is down there. But they can get an idea if there is any kind of debris, the basic shape of the bottom of the sea as well. A place that many people just had no idea to comprehend how deep it is, Erin.
BURNETT: I mean, it is incredible. You know, someone said to me, you know, it's like the pressure of a Cadillac escalade on your fingernail, Stephanie, down there. But I mean, they don't know what is down there, right? They don't know whether there is valley, whether there is mountains, although I think, they're hopeful that there aren't. There could be hundreds of feet of silt. I mean, how hard does that make it when you have absolutely no clue what is there?
ELAM: Right. Well, and I guess that's a good question for James. Like how do you know? How do we have any idea what is down there?
COLEMAN: At the moment, they only have very general information that is derived from various sources. They don't really have detailed survey information. So, they're not going off a good map. They just have a general estimate of what the depth. And they're going to learn based on the first missions. They're going to get an idea of what's down there now and then re-plan, how they do their second missions. And just as they go, based on what they learned from the first missions.
ELAM: So basically, Erin, they're flying blindly because no one really knows what it is like down there. And that's what is making this search even more difficult.
BURNETT: All right, Stephanie, thank you very much.
And OUTFRONT next, another desperate search is under way, underwater. This one is off the coast of South Carolina. Nearly 300 people, many of them children, hundreds of children are missing. A ferry just suddenly sank. They were told not to move.
And you saw here on CNN first video of Al-Qaeda's top leaders meeting out in the open without a care. Tonight, American intelligence officials are analyzing the video, frame by frame, trying to determine what the terrorist group could be planning.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) * BURNETt: Breaking news: A desperate search under way for nearly 300 people after a ferry just suddenly sank, a huge ferry. Many of the missing are teachers and students. Search and rescue teams have been working around the clock for the past 24 hours, desperately seeking survivors. At least 164 people have been rescued, and at least according to one report, at least six people confirmed dead. But as we said, hundreds are missing.
The ship was on its way to a resort island off the southwest coast of Korea when it ran into trouble.
Our Paula Hancocks is OUTFRONT tonight in Jindo with the latest.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): People screamed in the ship. They tilted and stuff fell down. Even people came sliding down.
PAULA HANCOCKS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (via telephone): Chaos inside a South Korean ship as it sank off the country's southeast coast. Onboard, more than 450 people, including 325 high school students on a class trip. As the ship began to take on water and capsize --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Don't move. If you move, it's more dangerous. Don't move.
HANCOCKS: -- passengers claim they were told to stay put.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translator): I was keeping still without making any movements. There was an announcement that we should not move.
HANCOCKS: Cell phone video believed to be taken from inside the ferry shows people wearing life jackets and waiting. It's thought that many of those who did survive are the ones who disobeyed the crew's orders.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): So, I was staying put. But suddenly the water came up to my face. So I think it was a narrow escape from dying.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): So kids were forced to stay put. So, only some of those who moved survived.
HANCOCKS: Dozens of boats and helicopters rushed to the sinking ship. Dramatic video shows passengers clinging to the vessel, waiting to be hoisted to safety, others jumping into the chilly water.
Authorities sent divers into the water to make their way into rooms, searching for survivors.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translator): Kids were screaming out of terror, shouting for help.
HANCOCKS: Back on land, a heartbreaking scene as relatives of those missing gather at a harbor in Jindo.
One mother sharing a text message from her son who was on board the ferry, quote, "There are few people on the ship, can't see a thing, it's totally dark. We are not dead yet, so please send along this message."
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BURNETT: Paula, I know there are reports the father of one of the students on board say there are people still alive in the boat 24 hours later. What can you tell us about that?
HANCOCKS: Well, Erin, we know there is a mother that we saw just about 10 hours ago now. And we saw a text message that she showed us. It was from her son who was on board that passenger ship. He had texted his elder brother who sent it on to the mother, saying we are still alive. It is in darkness. We cannot call. We have no phone connection, no Internet connection.
And it came at about 10:00 at night. So that was about 13 hours after the first signal that the ship was in trouble. The problem is there is a possibility that this was just a delayed text message, a very cruel twist of fate for this mother.
But it's not certain at this point. It did give other parents hope, and they did hope that there was potentially an air pocket. They are trying to grasp any straw that they can. It's almost 24 hours now after the ship first had its distress signal.
And coast guards are saying that you can only survive in these waters for about two hours. But parents here are refusing to give up hope -- Erin.
BURNETT: Paula, thank you very much.
And Paula mentioned the water there, 50 to 55 degrees. We're going to be joined by a former commander in the coast guard to talk about how long someone could survive in that water.
Now, though, a navy ship is standing by this the area, an American Navy ship ready to assist.
OUTFRONT now, Lieutenant Arlo Abrahamson. He's a spokesman for the U.S. Navy in South Korea, joins me now on the phone.
What can you tell us, Lieutenant, about the rescue effort right now?
LT. ARLO ABRAHAMSON, U.S. NAVY (via telephone): Well, thank you, Erin. Thank you for having me.
First, I wanted to express our thoughts for those passengers that passed away and also the missing passengers on the ferry. This is a terrible tragedy, and our hearts go out to those families.
BURNETT: And is this at this point a rescue effort? I mean, do you think there are possibly still children alive?
ABRAHAMSON: Well, Erin, what I can tell you is from the U.S. Navy's standpoint, we have the USS Bonhomme Richard, which is an amphibious assault ship, and that ship has about 3,000 sailors and marines on board the USS Bonhomme Richard. We have the MV-22 Osprey, which is a marine aircraft, as well as the MH-60 helicopters, which are capable of search and rescue.
We also have small boats, and we have divers aboard that could be potentially used if requested by the Republic of Korea, navy and coast guard.
I will tell you at this time that the USS Bonhomme Richard has just launched a couple of helicopters to support in the search-and- rescue operations as of right now.
BURNETT: And, Lieutenant, you heard, you know, some of the parents are desperately hoping that, you know, a text message was not delayed, that it did just come through, that there could be an air pocket in there, that there could be some of these children alive. Is that a scenario you're still operating under that scenario, that there could be an air pocket, or is that beyond the scope of reality?
ABRAHAMSON: Well, I think collectively, we -- as the search and rescue team, never give up hope. It's also important to point out that the South Korean government, as you would expect, has the lead in this operation.
And from our perspective, they've been doing a great job. They responded very quickly after the sinking occurred, and they have been working tirelessly on the operation.
Our U.S. Navy officials have been in constant contact with the on-scene commander for the Korean government. And we will continue to work closely with the Republic of Korea and will provide our capabilities as requested.
BURNETT: All right. Thank you very much, Lieutenant Arlo Abrahamson, as we said, with the U.S. Navy in South Korea.
I want to bring in Admiral Thad Allen now, former commander of the U.S. Coast Guard.
Admiral, good to have you with us.
ADM. THAD ALLEN (RET), FORMER COAST GUARD COMMANDER: Hey, Erin.
BURNETT: I want to talk about the water temperatures. You heard our Paula Hancocks. She's there with the families. The temperatures of that water, between 50 and 55 degrees.
If there are passengers still alive, they would have been in the ocean now for about 24 hours. Could there be survivors? ALLEN: Well, in the water, it's highly problematic. The ability to survive in those kind of temperatures in hours, not days. If they are in the water, I think we have a considerable problem. There is probably not anybody that is still alive.
I think the real issue is, is there anybody inside the ship, trapped in an air pocket?
BURNETT: So, do you think this possibility that there could be air pockets? Again, these are hundreds of children. That they could be alive in an air pocket?
ALLEN: Well, it's hard to tell. You need to know how the ship flooded as it rolled over. It listed to port. It was there for a while. And the ship slowly flooded from the top down after it had been flood by some catastrophic event from below deck.
So, it's really difficult to tell what compartments were flooded, which ones aren't. There certainly was enough flooding to make the ship capsized. So, it's going to be very difficult to determine where an air pocket might be.
BURNETT: And passengers saying it was foggy outside. It started to tilt. There was a loud bangs. This all happened incredibly quickly, within just a couple of hours.
What would cause a ship like this? I mean, this is a huge ship. I mean, you look at it. It looks like some sort of a cruise liner. There were hundreds of people on board it. What would cause it to go down so quickly?
ALLEN: Well, Erin, ships are constructed in compartments so that the ship is flooded in one particular area, the rest of the ship maintains buoyancy. There is a reserve amount of buoyancy available. So, if you flood a compartment, the ship can still stay afloat.
I think the indications on this particular incident, are there was a catastrophic flooding, an event that probably impacted more than one compartment that allowed the ship to lose buoyancy, roll over on its side, and then down flooding through the open areas on the top. And that's probably what caused the final capsizing.
BURNETT: I mean, when we look at these pictures -- I mean, some people watching if you can still see the ship, doesn't there has to be people that are alive somewhere? But I mean, I guess, just explain for us how difficult it would be for someone to be able to climb up or to just resist the pull of gravity in the water that's in the lower part of the ship.
ALLEN: Once the accesses to the ship are underwater, everything is reverse, down is up, and up is down. It's hard to orient yourself to know which way to go. It's very, very problematic. It's same problem you have if an aircraft is put upside down and put in water. Our helicopter pilots go through egress training. But it's so disoriented that it's really hard to explain. The second problem is the amount of current where they have the confluence of different waters around those straits, make it very difficult to put divers down safely dive in those conditions.
BURNETT: I want to read before we go, another text message. A parent says that he received from a child on board the ferry. It says "I know there is a rescue operation under way. If it is possible, get out of your room." And the student replies, "No, dad, the ship is tilted and I can't get out. No one is in the hallway."
It sort of gives you goose bumps to hear that. Where was the crew? I mean, aren't they trained for this?
ALLEN: Well, most crews are trained to evacuate the passengers, and they're drilled and exercised in those particular maneuvers.
It's hard to say happened because there was such confusion there is not a lot of clarity on the events that took place before the vessel rolled over. It's a very tragic event, and your heart goes out to these folks. But it's very difficult to try and understand until they're able to get inside the ship and try and ascertain exactly what the source of the flooding was.
BURNETT: All right. Thank you very much, Admiral.
ALLEN: Thank you.
BURNETT: And OUTFRONT next: a story that first broke on CNN. New video of al Qaeda's top leaders meeting out in the open. How President Obama's policy could have prevented America from taking them out.
And breaking news: the president sending a new message just moments ago to Russian President Vladimir Putin.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BURNETT: First on CNN, U.S. intelligence officials tonight poring over the video you first saw broadcast by CNN of a major meeting by al Qaeda leaders. Experts are analyzing every single frame of this video tonight, going through faces, every single face, every single approach.
Barbara Starr reports from the Pentagon.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): U.S. intelligence experts have examined every frame of the video showing nearly 100 al Qaeda fighters meeting in Yemen. They're trying to figure out if they're missing any signs of plotting for an attack against the U.S.
CNN was the first to broadcast this. The intelligence community trying to identify blurred faces and asking if they are being sent to attack the U.S. Analysts are also looking at the flashy white truck leading the convoy. Who had the money to pay for it? The expensive camera, even paying attention to the fruit juice being served.
None of the suspected terrorists appear worried about a U.S. drone strike. The rarely seen al Qaeda leader Nasir al Wuhayshi takes time to great fighters who recently broke out of jail. It's a sunny day with a dark shadow.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's quite an extraordinary event. The leadership taking a big risk in doing this. They clearly felt that for propaganda purposes, it was worth taking the risk. They wanted to get the message across there are groups still in business.
STARR: U.S. officials tell CNN each image is a piece of intelligence about the group the U.S. calls the most dangerous al Qaeda affiliate.
Most worrisome, on the right, Nasir al-Wuhayshi, the leader of al Qaeda in Yemen, and number two, for al-Qaeda, worldwide. He was a personal aide to Osama bin Laden. In the video, he vows to attack the U.S. On the left, Ibrahim al Rubaish, a former Guantanamo Bay detainee, now the group's main theologian.
The U.S. believes the video was shot in March, just weeks after the U.S. government warned airlines to watch for terrorists attempting to hide explosives in shoes.
MARIE HARF, STATE DEPARTMENT DEPUTY SPOKESWOMAN: They have tried to build explosives that can get around security. We have been concerned about that for many years now.
STARR: The chairman of the House Intelligence Committee telling Wolf Blitzer the group has gone underground in their communications, even as plotting has increased.
REP. MIKE ROGERS (R-MI), INTELLIGENCE COMMITTEE CHAIRMAN: The more they can get away with plotting, planning, organizing, as you saw there, finance, all the things they would need to do to strike a Western target, they're going through that process, including, by the way, bringing in very sophisticated people to devise new devices that would try to get around security protocols at airports and other places.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BURNETT: Barbara, this is pretty incredible, I guess the question is did U.S. officials know about this meeting? I mean, is there any reason they would have known about it and had a drone and killed all of the leaders when they were in the same place?
STARR: Well, you know, Erin, this is a big question right now. If they were going to strike this meeting with a drone, they would have had to have demonstrated that everybody on that videotape is an imminent threat to the United States. Otherwise, they couldn't have struck. But what U.S. intelligence officials will not say is whether they even knew the meeting was taking place, and if they did -- did they have anything nearby, did they have anything that even could have struck Wuhayshi as he was coming and going from the meeting? There's just not a lot they're going to tell us about that part of it.
BURNETT: I mean, the real question would be, gosh, how with all of this information they would not have known. Thanks, Barbara.
And now, I want to go to the breaking news in Ukraine.
President Obama speaking a short time ago to CBS News about the crisis, saying he believes American sanctions against Russia are working.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: What you have already seen is the Russian economy weaker, capital fleeing out of Russia. You know, Mr. Putin's decisions are not just bad for Ukraine, over the long term, they're going to be bad for Russia.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Nick Paton Walsh is OUTFRONT tonight in Donetsk, where the chaos is unfolding.
I mean, Nick, you've been watching exactly what's happening on the ground, incredible intelligence about that. Who's winning the standpoint tonight?
NICK PATON WALSH, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Certainly, the pro-Russian protesters, backed up with militants, some of the very well-equipped at this point. And Kiev says that basically Russian special services. That's denied by Moscow. They definitely got the momentum.
We've seen today, Ukrainian troops trying to move their armor around, running into local residents, who in one instance seems to help the pro-Russian militants to take over. A convoy of this Ukrainian army, which then paraded in one of the towns they have come effectively to power in using the Russian flag. I'm talking about tank and driving it around, making it very clear they were the main power in that particular area.
And in another place, too, the Ukraine army we saw came into the village, fired shots in the air and crashed into a car. That made the locals so angry, they surrounded the APCs and effectively they had to use a local police chief to negotiate the situation where they give up their firing pins and weapons just to be allowed out of the village.
So, when the Ukrainians are trying to move around, they're really struggling to have any impact at all, Erin.
BURNETT: Nick, incredible when you talk about what is happening on the ground. I mean, what's the feeling in terms of whether these are skirmishes or whether this is the edge of a full-blown war?
WALSH: Well, what's happening here is a concerted, very consistent and very organized effort by these protesters with these mysterious armed men, who nobody knows who they are, but they seem to know what they're doing to take over large areas of Donetsk. And the government is not really fighting back at all, as we've just been saying.
The concern is, is this part of a broader move to call a referendum? Quite possibly to then declare this area a part of Russia or independent from Ukraine? Quite possibly.
Do the Russians across the border intervene? Well, each time there's violence, each time there's tensions, there's a huge concern that NATO said today, those 40,000 Russian troops, just miles from where I am here, are in the state of high readiness.
There is significant bloodshed here and Moscow's media has been making a lot of noise about instance. They haven't actually been as bloody as they've been suggesting. If there is that kind of bloodshed, then yes, we could see a much more troubling conflict. Frankly, Ukraine's army, as we've been saying, really aren't ready for it -- Erin.
BURNETT: All right. Thanks very much to you, Nick.
And now, we have some breaking news just crossing on the search for Malaysia Airlines Flight 370. We've just gotten new data from the U.S. Navy. It shows the actual depth of the mission where the Bluefin underwater drone was initially forced to abort its search mission. They are now saying it was 100 meters deeper than previously thought. Obviously, the Bluefin-21, they thought it couldn't operate that deep, but they're now saying that it can and they're going to be able to reprogram it.
So, that is a significant headline and this tonight, at this moment, confirming the underwater search is happening in the area where the second ping was detected. They only heard this ping for 13 minutes. They're saying it is the single most promising ping that they detected because of its, quote-unquote, "quality". And they say that is where they are focusing the search tonight.
All right. We're going to be right back in just a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BURNETT: Ford Mustang on top of the empire state building. How did it get there?
For the answer we turn to the one and only Jeanne Moos.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JEANNE MOOS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Down there on the street is where cars are supposed to be. Not up here, 86 floors above New York City, on top of the Empire State Building. The out of place 2015 Ford Mustang had tourists wondering.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: First this was, how in the name of God did they get it up there?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Maybe by helicopter.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Helicopter or something.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I thought they would bring it up the helicopter.
MELANIE BANKER, BRAND MANAGER, FORD MUSTANG: It basically rode the elevator, just like you and I did.
MOOS: Not just you and I. We would have to be chopped up into pieces. The Mustang was cut up into smaller pieces, small enough to fit in the Empire State Building elevator.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We only had an elevator that's 36 inches wide.
MOOS: They actually built a mock elevator back at the Ford shop to make sure everything would fit.
This wasn't the first time the Ford Mustang rode these elevators. Back in 1965, the then newly introduced Mustang made the same trip, and was photographed on the Observatory.
This latest elevation of the Mustang was meant to celebrate its 50th anniversary. The weather, though, didn't cooperate.
Snowflakes were flying as assemble the Mustang high above Manhattan. It had to be done overnight when the observation deck was closed and the car had to be put together in a six-hour window. Here is the process sped up.
Despite the weather, they met their deadline.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: 1965 also.
MOOS: Ford was not actually first to raise a car to new heights. Maybe they got the idea from Chevy.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Chevrolet, 1964.
MOOS: They did use a helicopter to lift car and model atop this sandstone tower in Utah.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Chevrolet stands alone.
MOOS: Though windy conditions prevented the chopper from retrieving them on time and the model had to huddle in the Chevy for a few extra hours. Ford's executive chairman wasn't exactly huddling at the wheel on top of the Empire State. But don't expect them to drive off.
REPORTER: Can you drive it around here?
BANKER: If you put in an engine, you could drive it around here.
MOOS: The Chevy didn't have an engine either. I would take a herd of wild Mustangs to pull this car. The one that mattered here was the one running the elevators.
Jeanne Moos, CNN, New York.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BURNETT: There is so much effort put in, it's amazing.
I got to say, can you imagine driving a car at that height? I'd be absolutely terrified.
All right. Thanks so much as always for watching. We'll see you back here same time, same place tomorrow night.
"ANDERSON COOPER 360", though, starts right now.
