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Erin Burnett Outfront
Co-Pilot Did Not Reveal Suicidal Thoughts to Employer; U.S., Iran Working Through the Night on Nuke Deal; Protests Under Way Over Indiana's Religious Freedom. Aired 7-8:00p ET
Aired March 30, 2015 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[19:00:10] ERIN BURNETT, CNN ANCHOR: OUTFRONT next, breaking news in the investigation into Flight 9525. New information on what Andreas Lubitz revealed and did not reveal to his employers before the crash.
Plus, Lubitz's girlfriend opens up about his mental state and his promise to, quote, "do something that will change the system." That interview coming up.
And protesters at this hour storming the streets of Indiana marching against a law that they say allows businesses to discriminate against gays. Let's go OUTFRONT.
Good evening. I'm Erin Burnett and OUTFRONT tonight we begin with breaking news. We are learning more about the co-pilot of Flight 9525 hid his mental health issues from his employers. The source tells our panel tonight that and in a recent questionnaire, which asks specifically about suicidal thoughts, psychiatric disorders, whether you're taking any medication, Andreas Lubitz didn't reveal any information. This is crucial because prosecutors say Lubitz was treated for suicidal tendencies before he got his license to fly.
We are also learning tonight that just before the crash in which he murdered 149 people, Lubitz sought treatment for what he believed was a vision problem. That would have jeopardized his entire career with Lufthansa, that is a career that requires 20/20 vision.
But according to the prosecution, the vision problem with not actually physical it was in his head. And in this new and eerie footage, you see Lubitz as a teenager steering a glider over German countryside. At one point, he turns to the side, you see him smiling, full of joy at that moment. We are covering this story from all angles tonight.
Will Ripley is live in Dusseldorf with an in-depth look at Lubitz's past. Karl Penhaul is near the crash site in the French Alps. But we begin with Pamela Brown, she is also OUTFRONT live in Germany tonight. Pamela, what are you learning about these crucial questions that were asked of Lubitz and what he withheld?
PAMELA BROWN, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Erin, it's becoming increasingly clear that Andreas Lubitz went to great lengths to try to hide his mental health history from his employer at Lufthansa. In fact we just learned that just this past summer, that Lubitz had to fill out a questionnaire as part of a recertification exam that every pilot must go through every year. A few questions on this questionnaire. Do you have any vision problems? Are you taking any medications? Have you ever attempted suicide? Do you have any psychological psychiatric or neurological diseases? If anything that he put on there was a red flag, then the aviation doctor would have had to alert Lufthansa. Lufthansa said it didn't get any indication, nothing was brought to her attention that he had any issues. So, it's up to Lubitz to self-report his medical history, his mental health issues.
We learned that he went to an eye doctor for vision problems and it turned out, according to a source, this doctor diagnosed him with a psychosomatic order. But Erin, we don't know when that happened in relation to when he filled out this questionnaire, this past summer. But we do know from the prosecutor today, he was suicidal before he became a pilot and continued to seek psychotherapy treatment after that to the years leading up to the crash that happened just a few days ago -- Erin.
BURNETT: All right. Pamela, thank you very much, reporting live from Germany. That is deeply troubling when you think about someone who is suicidal before they even became a pilot and yet managed to get through the system.
Tonight, as investigators dig deeper into Andreas Lubitz's past, possible motives are starting to emerge and our Will Ripley is OUTFRONT with more.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
WILL RIPLEY, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Chilling video of Andreas Lubitz in a cockpit seven years ago as German investigators confirm severe psychological problems in his past, problems that threatened to ground his piloting career.
CHRISTOPH KUMPA, PROSECUTOR'S SPOKESMAN: Had, at that time, been in treatment of a psychotherapist because of what is documented as being suicidal.
RIPLEY: German prosecutors say there's no evidence that Lubitz was suicidal or acting aggressively in the days before flying Flight 9525 on a deadly coalition course with the French Alps. But Lubitz clearly had health problems. A European government official tells CNN, a doctor declared Lubitz unfit to work on the day of the crash. Impart, because he complained a vision problems. CNN has learned those problems were diagnosed as psychosomatic caused by his mental state.
KUMPA: We don't have any documentation that says that regarding his sight, that this is caused by an organic illness.
RIPLEY: Investigators are pouring over evidence, including medical records and prescription drugs seized from Lubitz's apartment. So far, they have not found any notes or conversations revealing a motive or plan to bring down a plane. German newspapers report Lubitz suffered severe subjective burned out syndrome, that stress caused by work-related trauma and severe depression.
DR. GERHARD FAHNENBRUCK, PSYCHOLOGIST, THE MAYDAY FOUNDATION: Pilots tend to hide these kinds of problems because they lose their job.
[19:05:27] RIPLEY: Pilot and psychologist Dr. Gerhard Fahnenbruck says he's not surprised the 27-year-old was hiding his condition from the airline as official suggests. He says, in Europe, pilots fear a mental illness diagnosis means losing their license permanently.
FAHNENBRUCK: Not only have the problem that they have the mental illness but they fear that they lose their job. That's a huge, huge difference.
RIPLEY (on camera): So that creates an incentive for pilots to keep this hidden?
FAHNENBRUCK: Yes.
RIPLEY (voice-over): But Lubitz couldn't hide his problems from everyone. His ex-girlfriend was quoted by German Newspaper Bild saying the 27-year-old was very troubled and had nightmares his plane was going down. Beneath the facade of a self-assured up and coming pilot, growing evidence of a disturbed young man hiding a dark secret.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
RIPLEY: Erin, as this investigation moves forward, there are going to be questions, questions about how someone with such a history of problems going back so many years was able to still get into the position where he was at the controls of an airplane responsible for the lives of 150 people. And there are also going to be questions about how pilots should be monitored. They had physical exams every year but there was no psychological evaluation required to self-report any mental health problems and yet a very real fear on the part of pilots certainly here in Europe, that if they were to self-report, they could be fired, they could lose their career or as a result of it have their license revoked permanently. So many questions as a result of this and so many families suffering tonight, also, as a result -- Erin.
BURNETT: All right. Will Ripley, thank you very much. And I want to bring in now our aviation correspondent Richard Quest, safety analyst David Soucie of course who's investigated crashes for the FAA for nearly two decades. And neuropsychiatrist Dr. Lawrence Tucker.
Dr. Tucker, let me begin with you. Because your area of expertise is now at the heart of this. Lubitz's doctor said that his vision problems were psychosomatic. In other words, to oversimplify it, it was in his head. It was a psychological problem, that's why he couldn't see, as opposed to a physical one. How is that possible?
DR. LAWRENCE TUCKER, NEUROPSYCHIATRIST: Well, when you have an anxiety disorder like it sounds like he had some obsessive compulsive personality issues, PTSD, had multiple traumas, he was very anxious. So anxiety and depression can present itself in a psychosomatic way where you get over focused with body sensations, everything from eyes, vision, bodily functions and even diarrhea and stomach issues. Another thought was that is if he's very anxious and he's going through some depression, does he have a problem sleeping and dehydration? That also can cause some visual issues as well.
BURNETT: All right. So, it's incredible. So, you can have a vision issue. Literally, you can't see even though it's in your head, even though it's not a real vision issue. I mean, I think it's pretty incredible and hard for many to understand. You know, David, the prosecutor says today as you just heard Pam report that Lubitz had suicidal tendencies even before he got his pilot's license. So, she just went to the questionnaire that he answered, right? Had yes or no answers. Obviously he wasn't being completely honest on that because it said he had a vision problems, you had suicidal thought or you on medication, but even before that when he took this break in his training, he had suicidal tendencies, how was he able to become a pilot for Lufthansa, which is one of the best airlines in the world?
DAVID SOUCIE, FORMER FAA SAFETY INSPECTOR: Erin, that is the question, no doubt about it. These are questions that have been asked before. We've gone through this when I was with the Federal Aviation Administration. This was a big question about how do we improve this? So, there were some discussions, some focus groups. It's really difficult to get some change in the regulations and FAR-57, which talks about medical certification for pilots, is very inept at this point. However, there's a segment in there, section in there that's really used, and that is that in order to have this certificate, the airmen must give the right and the permission for the FAA to dig into their personal records which overrides the HIPAA act.
BURNETT: So, Richard, does this going to change that? I mean, this is a guy who has suicidal tendencies, he's had anti-psychiatic medication. One reports that he had mountains of pills in his apartment, whether that's true or not, that's the description, he was taking shots. All these for psychiatric issue. I mean, this guy shouldn't have been a pilot.
RICHARD QUEST, CNN AVIATION CORRESPONDENT: Absolutely. I mean, of course he shouldn't have been. And the issue becomes, how did he fall through the stools? How did it get past the system?
BURNETT: Again and again.
QUEST: Exactly. It's not as simple as saying there should have been regular psychiatric psychological evaluations. Dr. Tucker would be able to tell us how he would have been able to pass them with flying colors. This man lied. That's how he did it.
BURNETT: Right.
QUEST: He fabricated it.
[19:10:11] BURNETT: And the problem is, someone who could possibly with mal intent is likely to lie anyway. People who self- report are the people who are not ever going to be in a position to do what he did.
QUEST: And you are looking at maybe some more psychological reporting.
BURNETT: Yes.
QUEST: You are looking a different infrastructure but don't be -- let's not cause a panic in a crisis. This is one case out of the --
BURNETT: Well, Robert Boyer from "Flying" magazine pointed out there's been more cases of pilot suicides and commercial jets than there has been hijacking --
QUEST: That's a nicely sophisticated point to make. You're still talking about three cases, three cases. Egypt air, silk and this and maybe the Mozambique one.
BURNETT: And maybe Malaysia, we don't know.
QUEST: And the fact is, if you start tinkering with the system, which you're going to have to do --
BURNETT: Of course.
QUEST: -- but look what happened with the cockpit door. You put the cockpit door --
BURNETT: You prevent someone from coming in and now this pilot couldn't come in. Yes. Every solution carries with it a repercussion.
QUEST: Exactly.
BURNETT: But Dr. Tucker, people are still trying to understand how it is that someone could have been this ill and have this much wrong with other people not knowing. So, another thing that we understand that Andreas Lubitz had his called, quote-unquote, "severe subjective burnout syndrome." I mean, what is that? That just sounds like something a lot of people would feel like they have. They are burned out and they are tired. Severe subjective burned out syndrome, what the heck is that?
TUCKER: It's kind of a form of PTSD. So you can imagine after being in the air so many times and someone who is anxious, again, if you look at some of the data that is coming out with how he apparently had some obsessive compulsive behavior --
BURNETT: Right.
TUCKER: All right? And some anxiety and then we have this depressive episode that seems to be somewhat -- these people are certainly prone to anxiety in general. So, think of an extreme stress disorder. And when you look at the gentleman that just spoke, you look at suicidal ideations, suicidal advance. I mean, over the last couple of years, they have been increasing just in the general population. 2010, there was about 40,000 and in to 2009, only about 30,000. So, in a general population, it has increase and unfortunately pilots -- well, I used to test these pilots and be part of FAA as far as evaluating these pilots trying to get back on treatment or get back into treatment or out of treatment and start flying. It's pretty regulated, pretty intense. Usually it takes years of psychotherapy to get them up and running if they can ever function again and fly. So, they are very strict in the United States.
BURNETT: All right. Well, we have new details about the last moments of Flight 9525. We're going to go minute by minute to what happened inside and outside of that cockpit. Our panel is back, next.
Plus, more from Lubitz's girlfriend, she had a very chilling account about his outburst and his violence, we're going to talk to the editor of the newspaper that spoke directly with her.
And who is the comedian taking over for Jon Stewart?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MAN: And my mom was like, oh, I don't care, I want a white man. And my dad was -- you know how the Swiss love chocolate. You know? So he was just --
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[19:17:07] BURNETT: Tonight, breaking news. The co-pilot of Flight 5925 did not disclose any mental health or physical problems in a recent employment questionnaire, that's according to a source speaking to our Pamela Brown.
We're also learning chilling new details about the final moments of that doomed flight. A German newspaper reporting what it says is part of the transcript from the cockpit voice recorder. And it is a horrific part, it sheds light on what the passengers and the captain were doing, while the co-pilot deliberately crashed that plane.
Tom Foreman is OUTFRONT.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): At the Barcelona Airport, Captain Patrick Sondheimer apologizes to passengers for a delay in takeoff saying maybe they can make it up in the air. Later he privately tells co-pilot Andreas Lubitz had despite a 20 minute delay in taking off, he had no chance to use the restroom in Spain. Lubitz says he can do so while the flight is under way. That information coming from a transcript of their conversation published by the German tabloid Bild. By 10:27, the plane is at cruising altitude, 38,000 feet. Lubitz tells the captain, you can go now. The captain's seat is believed to be heard pushing back and he tells Lubitz, you can take over.
Moments later, at 10:29, air traffic control notices the plane is descending and controllers try to contact the crew. No response. An alarm goes off in the cockpit warning about the sink rate of the aircraft. Then, banging is heard, people screaming, the captain pleading, "For God's sake, open the door." 10:35, the plane is dropped to 23,000 feet, loud metallic bangs begin as if someone in the cabin is trying to smash the cockpit open. A minute and a half later, another alarm. Terrain, pull up. The captain yells, "Open the damn door." 10:38, the plane is at 13,100 feet dropping perilously close to the tallest mountains. 10:40, just two minutes later, a noise roars through the cabin, possibly the right wing scraping a mountainside, say investigators. The screams grow louder, the recording ends.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
FOREMAN: And one of the most astonishing thing from this account of the recording is that through this entire process, even as he guides his plane to his doom, the co-pilot says not one word. They can hear him breathing the whole time on this transcript but he doesn't say anything to his captain, nothing to his crew and nothing to his passengers about what he has in mind and certainly not why -- Erin.
BURNETT: All right, Tom. Thank you. And I want to bring back our panel, David Soucie, Dr. Lawrence Tucker and Richard Quest, Dr. Lawrence Tucker.
David, let me start with you. So, before the captain left the cockpit, he had said, look, I need to go to the bathroom because the plane had taken off late. He needed to use the restroom, he did something that I'm curious about. He asked the co-pilot to prepare the landing and they went through the landing. That was only about a half an hour into an hour 40 minute flight. And he was literally just going to use the restroom and he was going to come right back. So, why would he have gone through the whole landing process before that? Would that in anyway possibly indicate maybe a lack of confidence in that co-pilot or would that be standard operating procedure?
SOUCIE: Well, it depends on when he did it during the flight, it could have been a training exercise, but more likely he was just doing his pre-flight check so that when his pre-landing check, so that when he came back into the cockpit he would be ready to go into the landing maneuvers. But there's something, Erin, that's very curious to me in this recording and they never mention this. But if that pilot had tried the code to get into the cockpit, there would be a 30-second buzzer and that 30-second buzzer would have gone off during which time the co-pilot would have had time to unlock the door. That buzzer, according to these accounts, never went off. So, does that tell us that the never attempted to get into the cockpit in the proper procedure?
BURNETT: So maybe he didn't know the code, he should have known it but he didn't know it?
SOUCIE: It's a possibility.
BURNETT: Go ahead. QUEST: No. No. Just to clarify on this, it could have been --
I think David, you were about to get to the other example. Or it could have been that the captain, I'm sorry that the co-pilot had pushed the lock switch.
BURNETT: To override the buzzer?
QUEST: Which inhibits the process.
BURNETT: Exactly.
QUEST: Or, and remember, Lufthansa's CEO said specifically they don't know the answer to that question.
BURNETT: And so the other thing that I'm curious about is, what was happening in that cockpit. At this point we understand there was just normal breathing, no accelerated breathing or anything like that and no talking. That could change. We don't know everything yet from that recording. But Dr. Tucker, we do know passengers were screaming in the background and we know that that was not just in the last minute or two, it was at least seven minutes. There are microphones in that cockpit. So for at least seven minutes while the captain is banging in the door, desperately trying to get in, there are human beings, a 149 of them are screaming. Lubitz is hearing all of this and he does nothing. Even his rate of breathing does not change. What causes someone to do that, someone to have whatever is wrong with him, to have no empathy for those 149 lives?
TUCKER: It's almost a form of what we call a disassociation, where they kind of check out. And apparently at this point in time he was intent on doing what he was doing and thought it was reasonable so disassociate from reality and circumstances, really not even hearing or thinking about what is going on behind him. Totally oblivious.
[19:22:36] BURNETT: And Richard, one thing that we know here, is that the plane -- the captain went to the bathroom. Okay?
QUEST: Yes.
BURNETT: Went to the bathroom, about a minute after he left the cockpit, maybe he stopped to talk to a flight attendant he went straight to the bathroom, whatever. About a minute after that, descent started. But it took him, from our understanding of the timeline now which could change, but the understanding we have now is about three or four minutes went by before he then tried to get back in the door. Does that surprise you at all that the pilot would have waited three or four minutes to actually try to get in instead of going immediately?
QUEST: Well, first of all, it's a leak we're talking about --
BURNETT: That's why I emphasized it's a like of the transcript --
QUEST: And that's why, we can take anything from this -- but to your point, the flight -- the first officer flying -- an altitude change from air traffic control, so just making a minor change --
BURNETT: So for a minute or two it may make sense?
QUEST: Yes. He's been told by air traffic control to do something different and then the captain comes back. What I do realize, of course, is 3,000 feet per minute as it goes on and on.
BURNETT: That's obviously a problem.
QUEST: Yes.
BURNETT: And David, to that point, the pilot then is desperately trying to get into the door. You can hear this on the recording. At one point you hear, quote, "loud metallic bangs on the cockpit voice recorder which is the captain hitting the door with something." We know that door after 9/11 became strong enough to withstand a grenade. Someone reported it was an ax he was using. But my question to you is, what do you think it would have been? Would there have been something like that on that side of the door? What could he have been using?
SOUCIE: An ax would have been a stretch. I would suggest that it was probably a fire extinguisher and the only metal really that he'd be hitting against would be the locks itself because the rest of it is a composite structure on the outside. So, I would suspect that that's what he was trying to do but of course it was futile to do that. This thing is designed to withstand hand grenade or larger explosions.
BURNETT: All right. Thanks very much to all of you.
As we still try to unravel the mystery of what could have caused a human beings to do this. OUTFRONT next, we have the story from Andreas Lubitz's girlfriend. The promises he reportedly made before the crash. We have that from her.
Plus, America on the verge of an historic deal with Iran. So, can the United States trust the Ayatollah?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:28:45] BURNETT: Tonight, disturbing new details about the man behind the crash of Flight 9525. A prosecutor confirms that 27- year-old Andreas Lubitz was at one point treated for suicidal tendencies. A French newspaper is reporting that he even got injections of an anti-psychotic medicine. We don't know exactly what that might be. And we haven't independently confirmed it but also tonight, the German newspaper Bild has new information from someone who says she dated Lubitz last year.
And OUTFRONT tonight is the editor-in-chief of Bild Online, Julian Reichelt. And thank you so much for being with us tonight, Julian. You published an interview with the woman who said she had a relationship with Andreas Lubitz last year. And she said it was very chilling to read the reporting from Bild, she said, quote, "When I heard about the crash, I remember a sentence he said, one day I'll do something that will change the system and then everyone will know my name and remember it." Why does this woman think Lubitz committed this heinous act?
JULIAN REICHELT, EDITOR-IN-CHIEF, BILD ONLINE: Well, Erin, from what she told us, his impression was that he was under a lot of stress from his employer, from the airline. Now, to us it's not clear if it was just his impression in the mental state he was in or if he was really given that impression by the airline. It seems more likely that it was just his impression that he was under a lot of stress, that he was under a lot of pressure from the airline and that's what he told his girlfriend back then was that he would probably never make chief pilot at the airline, never be pilot on one of the long-haul flights transatlantic flights he dreamed about and that was something that apparently put him under a lot of stress.
Now, again, we do not know where he got that impression from or if he just basically made it up in his own mind. But that was something he felt very angry about, from what she told us, and, you know, he told her that some day they would pay for that.
BURNETT: That they would pay for that. And, of course, she couldn't even comprehend what he actually ended up doing.
I know she also told "Bild" that Lubitz mentioned he was in psychiatric treatment and, of course, Julian, it's such an important statement because we know that he was keeping a lot of that, from your reporting, from the airline. He wasn't telling them, but he did tell her. She also, I understand, was a flight attendant with the airline. Did she at that time think it was significant that he was in psychiatric treatment? Did it make her afraid of him? What did she say about his behavior?
REICHELT: Well, from what we understand, she wasn't the only one he told about that, but no one in his direct surrounding and obviously she was among those people, you know, didn't find it significant enough to report it to the airline probably because what, you know, he ended up doing, crashing that airline into the mountain, was just incomprehensible to all of them. But what she did tell us was his overall behavior became kind of disturbing to her at some point, became kind of a threatening or at least annoying.
So, she ended that relationship, you know, she told us that he would lose his temper out of nowhere, that he would start screaming or yelling in conversations and just, you know, suddenly get out of control. And that was the cause why she ended that relationship.
BURNETT: All right. Julian Reichelt, thank you so much, the editor-in-chief of "Bild".
And tonight, authorities are working to build a road so families of Flight 9525 victims can get there, can get as close as possible to the crash site, so they can find all of those victims' remains.
Karl Penhaul is OUTFRONT.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) KARL PENHAUL, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Families torn
apart. All with the same question, why?
Milad Eslami was a sports journalist from Iran. To Mahshid, he was her big brother.
MAHSHID ESLAMI, MILAD ESLAMI'S SISTER: He said to one of his friends, if someone was killed in the flight crash, it would be OK because it is for one minute and it will be gone, and you are in the sky and your soul will go and -- but he spent eight minutes to --
PENHAUL: Milad had been in Spain covering the soccer game between Barcelona versus Real Madrid.
ESLAMI: Now, he's laughing because he's in the heavens, and he knows that one day he will be with us.
PENHAUL: Local village Mayor Francois Balique, understands relatives need to see the crash site to whether stand a chance of finding peace. So, he's sending this digger to carve a track across the mountain side to this spot -- until now, only accessible by helicopter.
"I felt the families wanted this and they asked me to get them as close as possible as if every meter mattered to them," he says.
The terrain is so dangerous that for even now recovery teams had to drop in by helicopter.
It was tough going but we managed to hike up to the crash zone. It took hours over rugged trails.
(on camera): Getting up here is literally hanging on to tree roots and grass. You can see why they're going to have to fly anything out from the crash site by helicopter.
(voice-over): Finally, in a steep-sided gully, this.
Swinging on a wire, they recover the remains. Forensic teams marked body parts and wreckage with small red flags. Expert mountaineers help them stay safe, clinging on to the mountain face. High winds make flying treacherous.
A few days later, when I meet heartbroken Mahshid, I describe the spot where her brother and others perished. Mahshid said she can sense her brother looking down.
ESLAMI: Everything is good for him but for us, we just -- we just can't calm ourself down with this picture that he's now the king of the Alps.
[19:35:05] PENHAUL: Milad and all those who flew with him, the kings of the Alps.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BURNETT: That was incredible hearing that woman talk.
Karl, I know that they are desperately trying to find remains of every single person on that plane so their families can have some measure of peace. Obviously, it's going to be incredibly difficult.
Do they have hope that they will be able to find every person?
PENHAUL: Erin, it is absolutely incredibly difficult, not only because of the rugged terrain that you saw in that report, but also because the plane was traveling at more than 430 miles an hour when it slammed into the mountain, and that means that bodies and the plane are in very small parts. But against predictions, recovery teams seem to have worked very fast, 78 body parts identified so far. The bad news is, though, that investigators now say that some bodies may have been so pulverized that they will never be identified and that that means relatives will not be getting loved ones back for burial -- Erin.
BURNETT: Which is a tragedy, and one can hope only -- maybe some of their belongings or something to give them a measure of peace. Thank you, Karl.
And OUTFRONT next, we have breaking news: negotiators at this hour now working through the night on a nuclear deal.
And protesters out on the streets of Indiana tonight. A new religious law would allow you to say, well, I'm not going to make that wedding cake for you because you're gay.
We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:40:26] BURNETT: Breaking news: U.S. and Iranian officials are working into the night right now. These are the last hours before the deadline for that nuclear deal -- a deal that would be historic. It will have huge implications for American security and the world. And that deadline is tomorrow.
Elise Labott is OUTFRONT.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ELISE LABOTT, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): As nuclear talks reach the end game, Secretary of State John Kerry shied away from predicting success.
REPORTER: Do you think you'll be able to get a deal by the deadline?
JOHN KERRY, U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: Good question.
(LAUGHTER)
LABOTT: Kerry did tell CNN there was, quote, "a little more light in the talks today", but acknowledged there's still what he called "tricky issues".
World powers are seeking the outlines of a deal they say would stop Iran from getting a nuclear weapon for at least 15 years. In exchange, Iran would get out from punishing sanctions that have crippled its economy.
Diplomats say there are some key sticking points. Iran wants to conduct advance nuclear research while the deal is still in effect. The international community wants to keep restrictions in place for the entire 15 years. And Iran wants all U.N. sanctions lifted on day one. World powers want to phase sanctions out as Iran complies with the deal and wants the flexibility to re-impose sanctions if Iran is in violation.
Diplomats here say it's yes or no time for Tehran.
PHILIP HAMMOND, BRITISH FOREIGN MINISTER: If we're going to get this done here over the next few hours, Iran has got to take a deep breath and make some tough decisions.
LABOTT: Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu warned Iran's power grab throughout the Middle East makes the evolving deal worse than his deepest fears.
BENJAMIN NETANYAHU, ISRAELI PRIME MINISTER: As Israel and the Arab countries see Iran progressing with its aggression, talks continue as usual in Lausanne, and a deal that from everything that we hear paves Iran's way to the bomb.
LABOTT: As Tuesday's deadline looms, negotiators are working around the clock mindful that Congress is promising to slap new sanctions on Iran if there is no deal.
REZA MARASHI, NATIONAL IRANIAN-AMERICAN COUNCIL: Negotiations in the 11th hour become fast and furious, and you see all different kinds of horse trading going on to try and finish these last final steps.
LABOTT (on camera): Secretary Kerry tells me negotiators will be working throughout the night and into tomorrow, all day, with the aim towards getting a deal. He says everybody knows the meaning of tomorrow -- Erin.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BURNETT: Thanks, Elise.
And OUTFRONT tonight, Fareed Zakaria. He's host of "FAREED ZAKARIA GPS" and author of the new book out today, "In Defense of a Liberal Education."
All right. Fareed, this deal is enormous in terms of its significance, right? I mean, if there were to be a deal between the U.S. and other powers and Iran on its nuclear program, how significant would it be?
FAREED ZAKARIA, HOST, CNN'S "FAREED ZAKARIA GPS": Well, if you think about it this way -- Iran is the most significant country in the world today that is sort of outside the international system. There's North Korea, there's Cuba, but these are small countries. Iran is huge and it's also a pivotal player in the Middle East. It's a pivotal player in all of the conflict areas that the United States is engaged in, from Syria, Iraq, Afghanistan, Yemen.
So, if we could manage to have a working relationship with Iran, and I just say a working relationship, nothing more, it's a huge step forward.
BURNETT: It would be a huge step forward but here's a tweet just a few days ago from the Twitter account widely believed to be that of the supreme leader, the ayatollah, here's what he tweeted, "#Iran seeks peace and empowerment of nations and U.S. seeks regional instability and dismantlement of Islamic awakening by arming terrorist groups #ISIS."
Now, when you see that, it makes you want to chuckle and say, this is funny, but then you realize this looks like a real life. When I asked the State Department then-spokesman, Jen Psaki, in November about this deal, I said, how can you do business with people that tweet things like this? She said, this has never been about trust.
But my question to you is, how do you deal on something this significant when you do not trust the person that's signing the dotted line?
ZAKARIA: Look, at some level, she's right. The reality is, you know, what did Reagan say about the Soviets? Trust but verify. This is about making sure you have intrusive inspections, verification, ways that -- if we trusted them, you wouldn't need all of that stuff. What you're trying to do here is to get some kind of a relationship going where there isn't trust but there is dialogue. And I think that that --
BURNETT: So, you're saying, this isn't a perfect deal, it may not be a good deal but it's better than no deal.
[19:45:00] ZAKARIA: Well, the alternatives are probably that Iran will continue on its nuclear program, because it's been able to do that even under sanctions or a military option, which is a series of very significant strikes, hundreds of sorties, a new war in the Middle East.
BURNETT: Between now, which is now not on the table, at least for the United States right now.
All right. Fareed, thank you very much.
And OUTFRONT next, protesters in Indiana -- they're in the streets right now. They're rallying against a new religious freedom law that they say is about hate.
And we're going to introduce you to Trevor Noah, the new face of "The Daily Show." Here he is joking about Ebola.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TREVOR NOAH: It was like a scene from Forrest Gump. Everyone is like, you can't sit here. Can't sit here.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BURNETT: Breaking news: there are protests in Indianapolis right now against a new state law critics say allows businesses to deny services to gay people. It's called the Religious Freedom Restoration Act. And basically what it says is the government cannot infringe on your religious beliefs.
So, if your religion says being gay is wrong, a violation, you don't have to, for example, make a wedding cake for a gay couple. You can say, no, my religion says I don't have to serve you. Indiana Governor Mike Pence is standing behind his new law.
[19:50:01] But some are balking. Angie's List, a Web site that provides ratings for local businesses, says it's halting plans for a $40 million expansion of its Indianapolis headquarters that was supposed to create 1,000 new jobs.
Miguel Marquez is OUTFRONT from Indianapolis tonight with tonight's money and power.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
PROTESTERS: No hate in our state!
MIGUEL MARQUEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Protests and anger across Indiana. Gays, lesbians and their supporters rallying in opposition to SB-101, the so-called Religious Freedom Restoration Act.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I have two kids who could possibly not be served because they don't believe in me being married to another woman.
MARQUEZ: Opponents say the law could be used by businesses to turn gays and transgender customers away if a business feels their religious freedom is being violated.
It came about after Indiana was forced to allow same-sex marriages last year. Supporters say businesses will no longer be forced to support same-sex marriage.
Indiana Governor Mike Pence, who signed the bill in private, dodged over and again on ABC's "This Week" whether the bill could prompt discrimination.
GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOS, ABC NEWS: Yes or no, if a florist in Indiana refuses to serve a gay couple, at their wedding, is that legal now in Indiana?
GOV. MIKE PENCE (R), INDIANA: George, this is where this debate has gone, with misinformation, and --
STEPHANOPOULOS: It's just a question, sir, yes or no?
PENCE: Well, there's been shameless rhetoric about my state. People are trying to make it about one particular issue. And now, you're doing that as well.
MARQUEZ: Governor Pence said the bill would stand, no changes. Members of his own party today in the state legislature weren't so sure.
BRIAN C. BOSMA, INDIANA HOUSE SPEAKER: Clearly, there's unsettled waters right now. All right? That could have far-ranging impact. We determined we needed to step in and be sure that those waters are calm and if that requires a legislative clarification, that's what we're working on.
MARQUEZ: Twenty states currently have religious freedom laws on the books, another 21, some of them specifically protect rights based on sexual orientation.
Opponents say the problem with Indiana's law, it's broad, any person or business could seek protection based on religious beliefs. And unlike most states, the government doesn't have to be involved.
Utah has a similar constitutional amendment just introduced in the statehouse, which would take effect in 2017. The governor in Arkansas has a bill similar to Indiana's on his desk. Arizona's governor vetoed a similar law in 2014.
Indiana's law has put the states in the line of fire. Apple's openly gay CEO Tim Cook declared in "The Washington Post", "On behalf of Apple, I'm standing up to oppose this new wave of legislation wherever it emerges. Even the head of the NCAA, which is holding the Final Four in Indianapolis says they are especially concerned about the legislation. It's even being mocked on "Saturday Night Live."
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You'll be able to tell which stores are supporting the new law because they'll have these helpful little signs.
(CHEERS)
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MARQUEZ: Now, the city council here in Indianapolis has just passed a resolution opposing SB-101. The mayor today here in Indianapolis signed an executive order asking the government here to fix it.
The Republican governor just posted an op-ed in "The Wall Street Journal" that he said is the right thing to do, and he is not backing down. But the legislators said they will fix it. How? It's not clear yet. When? Next week is probably the soonest they can get to it, if they get to it at all -- Erin.
BURNETT: Thank you very much, Miguel.
Miguel is pointing out this op-ed from the governor in "The Wall Street Journal." Here's what he says, "Our new law has been grossly misconstrued as a license to discriminate. That isn't true, and here's why", trying to make his case, which will be very difficult to do.
All right. Later tonight make sure to catch our special "Showdown in Indiana: The Battle Over Religious Rights". Chris Cuomo is staying up late. He's going to host it live. It is at 9:00 Eastern.
And next, Jeanne Moos on the comedian taking over for Jon Stewart on "The Daily Show." Jon Stewart's shadow is as long as a shadow can get. But this guy, can he deliver?
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[19:57:58] BURNETT: So, meet the new face of "The Daily Show." Jeanne Moos has the story.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JEANNE MOOS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: He went from rookie contributor --
JON STEWART, THE DAILY SHOW: Mr. Trevor Noah.
MOOS: -- to host of "Daily Show".
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Can I ask you a question?
MOOS: Question being asked is, who?
Trevor Noah, or is it Noah Trevor. No, it's Trevor Noah.
Anyway, he's a 31-year-old comedian from South Africa.
And he's graced the covers of South African's edition of "GQ" and "Rolling Stone."
He jokes about his mixed race. His mom is a black South African, his dad is a white Swiss German.
NOAH: And my dad was also, well, you know how the Swiss love chocolate, you know, so he was --
MOOS: Mixed unions weren't allowed under the old apartheid policy.
NOAH: And they had me, which was illegal, so I was born a crime.
MOOS: Audiences abroad, he's joked about Americans.
NOAH: They don't know much about Africa as a whole. Most of them don't know much about anything, but still like -- MOOS: And when he did three segments on "The Daily Show"
recently, the laughter was underwhelming.
Reaction to a word he had been named host ranged from Trevor Noah is kind of smokin' hot, to excellent dimples, to, so they couldn't find an American for the job? That's pretty sad.
One thing Noah will have no trouble doing on "The Daily Show," accents, from American --
NOAH: Have you been in contact with Ebola?
MOOS: To Middle Eastern.
NOAH: You probably want to check that gentleman over there.
MOOS: To what he called crazy guy.
NOAH: Ask me why!
MOOS: Even what he described as black Hitler.
And then Oprah-esque imitation pegged to her African school.
Eventually, he'll be beating up on the media when, say, a weatherman finds a hanger he left in his suit, at least Trevor Noah's no empty suit.
Jeanne Moos, CNN --
NOAH: A guy looks to me, he's like, so you're a comedian. And he's like, you don't look funny.
MOOS: -- New York.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BURNETT: We'll see how he does. It will be fascinating, and we'll be rooting for him.
Thanks so much for joining us.
Anderson starts now.
