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Erin Burnett Outfront
Protests Growing After Six Officers Charged; Awaiting Baltimore Police Presser; Freddie Gray Death Ruled Homicide; Officers Charged. Aired 7-8:00p ET
Aired May 01, 2015 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[19:00:10] ERIN BURNETT, CNN ANCHOR: And thanks to you, Wolf. Good evening to all. I'm Erin Burnett. OUTFRONT tonight, the breaking news. At this hour six Baltimore police officers in custody, all of them charged in the death of Freddie Gray. These are live pictures you're seeing on the other side of your screen, growing protests on the streets of Baltimore. And right now also celebrations. They're celebrating an early victory in their demand for justice. Prosecutor Marilyn Mosby made the highly unexpected announcement today about the charges.
No one anticipated this today. And we now know the identities of the six police officers, Lieutenant Brian Rice, Sergeant Alicia White and Officers William Porter, Edward Nero, Garrett Miller and Cesar Goodson. Goodson is the driver of the police van and he received the most serious charge, second degree murder. The remaining charges range from manslaughter, assault, misconduct, false imprisonment. A lot has been made of the racial dynamics in this case. So, I want to know that three of the six officers charged are white, three are black. And Officer Goodson, the officer charged with murder is black. Mosby today spoke directly to the protesters promising justice.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARILYN MOSBY, BALTIMORE'S STATE ATTORNEY: To the people of Baltimore and the demonstrators across America, I heard your call for no justice, no peace. Your peace is sincerely needed as I work to deliver justice on behalf of this young man.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: We are standing by at this moment for a Baltimore police press conference. That is going to begin sometime in the next two or three minutes. It could be very significant. The Police Union tonight has already publicly taken the stand fighting back against the charges. Our reporters are covering this story from every angle tonight as we await that live press conference from police in any moment.
I want to go to Miguel Marquez on the streets of Baltimore again tonight. And Miguel, a major shift. You are hearing celebrations.
MIGUEL MARQUEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: This is unbelievable. This is North Avenue. There must be a thousand, perhaps 2,000 people out here, all ages, all races in absolute celebration mode. It is a little bizarre to think that this place was so frightening and concerning on Monday and with the curfew and how much concern people have had to see this today is absolutely incredible. Who is this --
UNIDENTIFIED WOMAN: My name is Amanda.
MARQUEZ: Amanda Davis, who's this?
UNIDENTIFIED WOMAN: This is my son.
MARQUEZ: Hello, kiddo.
UNIDENTIFIED WOMAN: Who I'm fighting for to save my baby's life.
MARQUEZ: You marched from downtown. Why march up here?
UNIDENTIFIED WOMAN: I marched from here -- from downtown to here because this is the heartbeat of my community. This is an uprising and I want my son to be a part of it. I want my son to have the courage that I didn't have to do when she was coming up. Maybe if I had the courage to fight against this discrimination and this injustice that I seen all them years ago we wouldn't be here right now.
MARQUEZ: I am sure you are happy about the charges.
UNIDENTIFIED WOMAN: I'm happy about the charges but this is just a little step. This is just a little step. We've seen what they've done to a lot of our other brothers who have already been killed and the criminals have been found not guilty. So this is just a small step to a long, long haul that we got to go.
MARQUEZ: And I think somebody wants his mother too.
UNIDENTIFIED WOMAN: Yes.
MARQUEZ: Thank you very much.
UNIDENTIFIED WOMAN: You're welcome.
MARQUEZ: Very nice to meet you. Absolutely incredible party atmosphere here. Amazing to see. Now, they've moved into this neighborhood. They weren't even ready -- the cars are not off the street because the North and Penn has been blocked up there. So now it's just become, the entire street is a sea of people moving to North and Penn. It will be interesting tonight if that curfew is still in effect what will happen. Back to you.
BURNETT: All right. Thanks very much to you, Miguel. And a very impassioned and compelling interview there with that woman and her young son. As the prosecutor announced the charges against those six officers, she also took the time to retrace their steps which is really is at the core here of what that woman said. What happens next? These are charges. This is not a conviction. This is a charge. So what really happened? Is the case provable? So, from the time Freddie Gray was arrested until the time he was arrived gravely injured at the police station, what exactly happened? Jason Carroll was also OUTFRONT in Baltimore.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MOSBY: The findings of our comprehensive thorough an independent investigation coupled with the medical examiner's determination that Mr. Gray's death was a homicide.
FREDDIE GRAY, DIED OF A SEVERED SPINAL CORD: Ahh! (Bleep).
JASON CARROLL, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): And with that State's Attorney Marilyn Mosby announced the six Baltimore police officers who picked up Freddie Gray on April 12th would be charged with his death. Mosby retraced the steps the officers took that day beginning with the initial stop.
(on camera): That took place here near the corner of North and Mount, Lieutenant Brian Rice was on bike patrol with Officers Garrett Miller and Edward Nero. They spotted Gray, made eye contact with him and Gray took off.
[19:05:22] (voice-over): The officers caught up with Gray and arrested him in the 1700 Block of Presbury Street. The incident caught on security cameras and cell phone video. The state's attorney says this is when Gray told the officers he could not breathe and requested an inhaler. But Mosby says he was not given one.
UNIDENTIFIED WOMAN: His legs are broke and y'all are dragging him like that!
CARROLL (on camera): This is where the Officers Miller and Nero searched Gray and found a knife claiming it was an illegal switchblade. They made the arrest right over there where people are still gathered. According to the state, Gray began to scream as the officers held him down.
CARROLL (voice-over): Today we learned that arrest should never have happened.
UNIDENTIFIED WOMAN: The knife was not a switchblade and is lawful under Maryland law.
CARROLL: A transport van driven by Officer Caesar Goodson arrives. The officers place Gray inside but do not secure him in a seat belt. A violation of department policy. This is where the van first stops. The officers remove Gray, they cuff his hands, they shackle his ankles and then they put him back inside the police van. But again without putting on that seat belt.
MOSBY: Mr. Gray suffered a severe and critical neck injury as a result of being handcuffed, shackled by his feet and unrestrained inside of the BPD wagon.
CARROLL: The officers then drive to Fremont Avenue where they parked and check on Gray. Additional units are called Officer William Porter arrives at Dalton Street and Druid Hill Avenue. (on camera): Officers Goodson and Porter checked on Gray. The
state says Porter asked Gray if he needs medical assistance. Gray says at least twice that he does. Allegedly none is given. Again he's put back inside the police van again without a seat belt.
(voice-over): The officers move to make another arrest at 1600 West North Avenue. At this point several of the officers, including Officer Alicia White, see that Gray is unresponsive on the floor of the police van.
MOSBY: Despite Mr. Gray seriously deteriorating medical condition, no medical assistance was rendered or summoned for Mr. Gray at that time by any officer.
CARROLL: The officers drove to the Western District Police Station where the second prisoner was unloaded and taken inside first before anyone attended to Gray. This is where a medic was finally called. But once he arrived, Gray was already in cardiac arrest.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CARROLL: And Erin, we're now still marching along with hundreds, hundreds possibly even thousands of people just past Pennsylvania and North where you saw so much unrest. And throughout the day from speaking to so many people, Erin, you really get the sense that this is more than just a celebration. What you're seeing is an outpouring of emotion after what people say is years and years of being disenfranchised, not listened to, years and years of abuse. And so, that's what you're seeing now. Thousands of people taking to the streets like this man, Erin. He's been out here for several days running a lot of these protests. Give me a sense of how you're feeling today.
UNIDENTIFIED MAN: We feel elated today. Finally a Baltimore City, justice is going to be served. The indictments are just beginning. We need six convictions now. These people are ecstatic because for so many years in this city we've been seeing how individuals in the Baltimore City Police Department, not all of them but just rogue cops in this particular incident always get away. But today we're excited. The people they counted on, the whole nation were calling thugs and hoodlums, they came together collectively and we forced change. We made a difference. That's what's so important about this. And people are excited. Look at these people. Thousands of them.
CARROLL: A lot of excitement out here. Thank you very much for sharing your opinion. Really appreciate that. Erin, I think the reason why you have so much emotion out here is because so many people did not expect to hear what they heard today from the state's attorney. They had hoped for it but no one expected to hear it -- Erin.
BURNETT: That's very true. No one expected to hear it. Thank you so much, Jason. And OUTFRONT now, Mark O'Mara served as George Zimmerman's defense attorney when Zimmerman was charged with the shooting death of Trayvon Martin. Paul Callan, criminal defense attorney and former prosecutor and Neil Franklin, retired Maryland State trooper and former Baltimore police officer. A full disclosure, Neil, we need to give to our viewers, of course you were fired from the Baltimore police force. I want all our viewers to know right now we're awaiting a live press conference from Baltimore police momentary. As soon as that begins, we're going to go to it. I want to get this conversation going.
Paul, let me start with you. Prosecutors said she got the medical examiner's report that ruled this a homicide today and she filed charges today. These are charges against six people. You've got a lot of witnesses, you've got videos. The Police Union of course on the defense says that there was a rush to judgment. Never seen such a rush were their words. Were you surprised at how quickly these charges were filed?
[19:10:18] PAUL CALLAN, FORMER PROSECUTOR: It's a shockingly fast decision by a prosecutor. She's got to make out a case here against six defendants, she's got to put together forensic evidence, video evidence, complicated medical evidence. To do it in such a fast period of time is really, really surprising. Remember, she's got to prove this beyond a reasonable doubt some day in court. But she was balancing, you know, a citizenry so enraged at these police officers with her requirements as an ethical prosecutor. And we'll see if she made the right decision.
BURNETT: Right. We will see. But Neil, you've worked on that Police Department. Do you think the charges came too quickly?
NEIL FRANKLIN, RETIRED MARYLAND STATE TROOPER: No, first of all, there is no judgment here. You know, police are citizens first. And if there's probable cause for an arrest, as we have in this case, then charges are placed. You know, and we do this routinely during criminal investigations. So there's no rush to judgment here. I'm surprised by the fraternal order of police though missing an important opportunity here, you know, to say, to give a message to the citizens of this country that pretty much says yes, we support or police officers and their families. Yes we want to partner with the community and yes we want to get this right. You know, but they decided to remain divisive here when they had an opportunity to unite this community, and not just Baltimore but many communities across this country who are experiencing the same thing.
BURNETT: That's an interesting point. And I want to point out, you know, as Neil saying that was the Police Union that spoke and we are waiting that in any moment a live press conference from police as they're going to speak here. And the big question is whether they'll address this or not. That's going to be live at any moment. Mark, let me get to you, the charges. The driver the only one charged with second degree depraved heart murder as it's called. This could carry a sentence of 30 years. What does that tell you? How hard is it to move this charge?
MARK O'MARA, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: It's quite difficult to prove it because they really have to show that this driver of this car and his actions were so outrageous of a depraved heart or mind, so reckless in what he did that he should be held criminally responsible. I have to wonder if there's something in the driving pattern that the prosecutor hasn't told us about yet, something that puts that driver far and apart away from the other officers who were there who knew he was unresponsive, who were part of the control over Freddie Gray. I have to wonder if we're going to find out that a quick stop or a quick acceleration. Paul knows and I know, I have had hundreds of clients of mine tell me that one way that cops keep control over an arrestee in the back is that he's being disrespectful, spitting whatever and he slammed on the breaks and he bounces against the front glass. I'm wondering if we're going to find out as the discovery comes out that some of that activity that puts the driver in that special category of the murder charge that was given to him.
BURNETT: And perhaps Marilyn Mosby is aware of that as you say and didn't get to that detail today. Important to note, of course, just yesterday we found out that there was a stop, a formal stop by that van that no one, none of these six officers had prior disclosed. And you raised a question as to how significant that could be. Neil, race is a really core part of the anger on the streets about this case. Everyone in the country knows. This is a national racial issue that this nation is dealing with. In this case, though, three of the charged officers are white, three of them are black and the man driving that van, the only one charged with murder is black. Will that ameliorate, or bring down the racial tension at all?
FRANKLIN: Well, I don't think the race -- what we're seeing across this country with these individual cases that we're experiencing, I think it's more of an us versus them mentality and culture, you know, from a policing perspective. Not so much one of race. And when you look at race, I think it's more of a --
BURNETT: Well, I mean, you know, they're talking -- okay I'm sorry. I have to interrupt you. Because the press conference is starting. Let's go straight too. This is Baltimore police.
UNIDENTIFIED POLICE: So I just wanted to take the time to brief you guys on a number of things. The first being the number of curfew arrests for last evening. The total number was 37 curfew arrests. One of those also with a handgun violation and that person was charged accordingly. We still continue to have a large number of peaceful protesters who are marching throughout the city. One of those locations where they seem to be gathering are the intersection of Pennsylvania Avenue and North Avenue. There seems to be a large group there. We ask that you follow us at Baltimore police for real-time updates and any potential road closures. In addition we'll also post the times of any media briefings that may occur.
In reference to last night, when we have large groups after the curfew of protesters, we will establish a media staging area. In that media staging area only credentialed media will be allowed. So please have your credentials there. There will be an officer there to check those. Only credentialed members of the media will be permitted to enter the media staging zones. Members of the public are not authorized to enter or remain near the media zones during curfew. Media or members of the media may not aid or abet any member of the public in violating the curfew by encouraging them to remain in or around the media zones. [19:15:48] BURNETT: All right. That's Baltimore police. We're
going to monitor this. Obviously they're going through the details of the arrest and the curfew situation. They have not yet addressed the charges today. But if they take questions of course they're going to be asked that. And it looks like he's going to try to avoid taking questions. So, we'll keep an eye on that.
As we're listening to this to see if there is any further development, let me go to you, Paul. Two of the officers -- to get the point here we were making about whether this is about race. And Neil was saying no, it's about police brutality. But a lot of these protesters, you know, were chanting black lives matter, they were holding their hands up. It is about race it seems like to a lot of people.
CALLAN: Well, it certainly looks that way. But remember here we have an African-American mayor, we have an African-American police commissioner and the prosecutor is African-American and we have a predominantly minority force. So, notwithstanding what we're seeing, the visuals in the street, three of the officers here apparently African-American. So, maybe it will be more focused on the brutality and the racial aspect that is going to fade I think as we move closer to trial.
BURNETT: All right. Thanks so much to all of you. I appreciate you taking the time. We're going to take a brief break. When we come back next, we're going to have the live pictures of the growing crowds on the streets of Baltimore. And they are growing. Yes, celebratory but growing. As the Police Union is stepping up, defending the officers, calling for the prosecutor to step aside. Does she have a major conflict of interest?
Plus, what we're learning about the six officers charged in Freddie Gray's death, three of them are black including that officer charged with murder. And did Freddie Gray die because police purposely gave him a rough ride? A special OUTFRONT report on how police can use van rides to hurt their passengers, what you just heard from Mark O'Mara.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:21:10] BURNETT: I want to welcome our viewers around the world. We are watching protests growing in Baltimore and across the United States tonight. There are calls for special prosecutor. After Baltimore's top attorney, her name is Marilyn Mosby, brought charges against six officers in the death of Freddie Gray. In a letter to Mosby released today, the head of Baltimore's Police Union defended the police strenuously saying they were innocent and then wrote, quote, "I have very deep concerns about the many conflicts of interest presented by your office conducting an investigation in this case." Now these concerns include Mosby's relationship with the Freddie Gray family attorney, Billy Murphy. He's a donor of hers. You see him there. The Police Union also points out that Mosby's husband is a Baltimore City councilman. Mosby though says there is nothing to make her step aside.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MOSBY: My husband is a public servant. He works on the legislative side. I'm a prosecutor. I am also a public servant. I uphold the law. He makes the laws. And I will prosecute any case within my jurisdiction.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Don Lemon is OUTFRONT in Baltimore at the City Hall. And Dan, you just spoke to her, the Baltimore State Attorney Marilyn Mosby. She obviously seems to be holding firm, not going to recuse herself.
DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: She's not going to recuse herself. When I said police want you to appoint a special prosecutor. She said no way. There's no need to appoint a special prosecutor. She is perfectly capable of handling this case she said and she's very competent about it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MOSBY: I can't really get into the specifics of the case, but as a prosecutor you should not bring charges if you don't believe that you have probable cause that these individuals are responsible for the charges.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: So she believes that the information that she has is important enough and big enough and strong enough that she can get convictions from all six of these officers -- Erin.
BURNETT: And she certainly has the confidence, she says the fact to move very quickly. I mean, Don, the whole country is watching her every move, every decision. What did she say about suddenly being under the microscope like this?
LEMON: Not only is the whole country watching her, she's very young. She's 35. She's the youngest prosecutor in any major city in America. And she's also been on the job for just four months. You know, back in January she was sworn in. So, you know, there are a lot of things going on here. But she says being in the spotlight and having this job, that's really not the biggest issue for her, not the concern for her. Her biggest concern is being a mother and being a wife. This she just wants fairness, not convictions, justice and fairness. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: This has been a really important -- it's been a tough time for you. You are in the spotlight under the microscope.
MOSBY: I don't think it's tough. The people of Baltimore voted for me to do my job and to carry out justice and that's what I'm going to do as a state attorney for Baltimore City.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: And here's how she got ahead of everything. Because that preliminary report came out a day ahead, people didn't expect her to get out here today and make this announcement. She said when this first happened, before Freddie Gray sadly died, she was already running her own parallel investigation using the resources of the sheriff's department and the police department to help her get this done as quickly as judiciously as possible.
BURNETT: She obviously sounds firm, she sounds sure of her convictions. And you've got to admire her for saying it like it is. She's doing her job and she has other priorities in her life as well. Don, thank you.
LEMON: Thank you, Erin.
BURNETT: And you can see more of Don's interview with the prosecutor tonight at 10:00 on CNN tonight. You don't want to miss that. It's outstanding.
And OUTFRONT now, Tom Verni, he's a retired NYPD detective along with D. Watkins, a long time Baltimore resident professor, author of, "Cook Up," a memoir about his life. And dealing drugs in Baltimore. He's seen all sides of these stories.
Tom, let me start with you since you're next to me. Police Union says she has a conflict of interest, she should recuse herself. They want a special prosecutor. She says no. She's got the facts, she's did her own investigation, don't accuse her of moving though quickly. She went at her own pace. She got it. Why should she step aside?
TOM VERNI, RETIRED NYPD DETECTIVE: Well, I don't think she wants to step aside.
BURNETT: No, she clearly does not.
VERNI: Yes. This is going to be a big case for her.
BURNETT: But should she?
VERNI: Oh, I think she probably should base on what we already know. And this without having any additional information come out. We know that her husband is the councilman of the area where Freddie Gray lived. We know that she has ties to Freddie Gray's attorney, which also he claims that she says that she has a dislike for the police. That's a problem. I mean, that's clear. I couldn't serve jury duty because I was a police officer, not only in a civil trial but also in a criminal trial. I would have probably been the best juror they had. So, if I can't even serve jury duty as a police officer, why would she, in probably one of the biggest cases Baltimore is ever going to see. Be in charge of this case? I think this absolutely calls for a special independent prosecutor. If there any case calls for that, I would think this would be the case.
[19:26:21] BURNETT: All right. D., what's your response to Tom? D. WATKINS, BALTIMORE RESIDENT: I think she should be able
prosecute the case. I think she knows what she's doing. She stepped out there and you know, the world is watching. And apparently, you know, her speech was moving and she seems like she's ready.
BURNETT: So, D., let me just follow up with you on a point that Tom brought up. And this is -- that man we saw, Billy Murphy, as you know he's representing the Gray family. He's been a financial supporter of Mosby, donated $5,000 to her campaign, served on her transition committee. He was with her at her swearing in. The Baltimore Sun, this is what Tom is talking about is reporting that Billy Murphy was out on the streets with protesters this week and he told them that Mosby had told him, quote, "She doesn't trust the police herself." Does that worry D. just you in wanting to get a completely fair transparent process?
WATKINS: Under normal circumstances it would worry me. But we're talking about a system that's based on connections. I mean, everyone I know who has been in and out of the legal system, you know, it's like, it's not what your lawyer knows, it's what judge did your lawyer go to school with. You know, I'm not saying that they're going to be up to anything crooked. I'm just saying that it's not like the first time we heard of something like this happening.
BURNETT: An interesting point he makes about Baltimore, Tom. Because there's also this point. Right. So, you're making the point about, you know, maybe she's bias against the officers. But when you look at her personal life, her grandfather, her uncles, her mother and her father according to her, description of her own past, they were all police officers. So that might argue she's actually biased on the other side.
VERNI: Well, again, this is going to be a case where she can clearly use this as a stepping stone politically for her own career too. So, there's more reasons than one that she'll going to want to hold on to this case. And I couldn't really argue with D. on the point that she's not qualified, I think she's qualified to prosecute a case otherwise she wouldn't be where she's at. And she seems like a very bright, articulate woman. So, under normal circumstances I would say that she would be fine to prosecute a case particularly against some sort of alleged police misconduct or maybe even a crime that's taken place. But in this particular case it's so high profile, so highly charged, and because of what we already know about her reservations and her connections, I just really don't think -- it just kind of gnaws at the back of my brain that I think she's not really in the place to be prosecuting this particular case. And a special independent prosecutor is going to go based on the law, it's going to go base on police procedure. And if the officers are found guilty of violating one the other or both, then they're going to be held accountable, as they should.
BURNETT: Sounds like what you're saying D. though is that you actually don't trying to disagree with Tom. I thought you might be more trying about it but you're not. You're just saying that this is a system built on connections and whatever quote-unquote, "independent person you get" is going to be just as tied into the system as she is or anyone else.
WATKINS: It's kind of like, you know, when the people I know and the people from our community go through the system, no one looks this far into it. You know, it's like if we're going to court, then we're going to court and it doesn't matter what lawyer knows what judge or what prosecutor went to school with who. It's all connections based. So, you know, I definitely understand where he's coming from. But you know, we're talking about a system that has so many problems. And you know, she's did something very, very brave and I think she deserves a shot to bring justice to the city. It's what people are waiting for. You know, she's brand new and she's young and right now she has the whole city in adjust and we all have faith in the legal system again. So, you know, I'm just excited about seeing what's going to happen.
BURNETT: All right. Thanks very much to both of you. And OUTFRONT next, more on the breaking news out of Baltimore. And while those crowds celebrate, though, they're celebrating charges. This is not a conviction. And recent history show that police charges very rarely get convictions. That is next.
And our special report on the alleged police tactic called rough rides. Is that what killed Freddie Gray?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BURNETT: Welcome to our viewers in the United States and around the world.
Tonight, breaking news: six Baltimore police officers are in custody this evening, charged with the death of Freddie Gray. These are live pictures of protesters marching throughout the city of Baltimore. There are thousands of people out tonight.
After a week of anger, today, some respite for some of those protesters celebrating after a day of stunning developments in this case. Stunning. The chief prosecutor, Marilyn Mosby, said she found probable charge to charge -- probable cause to charge all six officers in Gray's death. She called his arrest illegal and his death a homicide.
The first preliminary hearing will be at the end of this month. Race has been a central issue for many in this case. So, it is worth noting that three of the six officers charged are black. And that includes there was only one officer, everyone, only one charged with murder. That officer is black.
Jason Carroll is OUTFRONT from Baltimore to night.
And, Jason, thousands around you. They are out in solidarity and some in celebration, I know. Where are you going?
JASON CARROLL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: You're absolutely right. In terms of where we're going, I don't know. I can tell you where we've been.
[19:35:00] This is a huge crowd that started at city hall. Then they marched to Pennsylvania and North where we saw so much unrest. Then they marched right by the point where Freddie Gray was initially stopped by the officers, then to the point where he was arrested, then to the police station. Now, we've merged with an even larger group, thousands strong.
In order to describe the mood out here, it is one of elation for some, skepticism among others. They say this is just one step in the process of justice.
I want to bring in Charity and Curtis here. They're out here with their little one. You can see, they've been marching all the way along.
Give me a sense -- how would you describe the mood out here this evening?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It seems joyous, skeptical I think in the face conviction, about the conviction. With the charges, people are happy that we got this far. But at the same time, we're worried that it will be like with Trayvon Martin, where it will get to court and nothing will happen.
CARROLL: Curtis, what are your thoughts?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I mean, I feel like we're champions right now. Right now, as far as unity in the Baltimore City community, walks of life, everybody, coming from different parts of the nation to celebrate inequality here with us. I mean, to show that we as a city can come together and we're doing it. It's live right here right now.
CARROLL: Well, at one point when you're marching by here, Erin, some people peek out of their buildings, clapping, screaming. So, it is one feeling of elation for some people, but again, there is some skepticism here as you hear from Charity and Curtis and their family.
They're going to keep marching. I'm going to see if we can very delicately turn around. My photographer doing an intelligent job as we march -- continue to march through the streets of Baltimore. And at this point, Erin, no end in sight.
BURNETT: No end in sight, it could be a long night. But Jason giving the description elation but also skepticism.
And OUTFRONT tonight, Reverend Jamal Bryant. Freddie Gray attended his church. He's been organizing protests in Baltimore since Gray's death.
And, Reverend, it's good to have you on. You've been on with us. I know many times this week. What's your reaction? You know, you just heard that young mother Charity say, look, she feels happy, she feels elated, but she also feels skeptical.
REV. JAMAL BRYANT, BALTIMORE PROTEST ORGANIZER: Yes, I think it's really shock and awe. None of us were expecting that announcement from Marilyn Mosby today. We're elated by it. It sets a precedent that everybody is accounted. But it's also shameful for America considering that African-Americans have to celebrate that the system actually works.
It turns a whole new page for us to raise our confident level that the justice system can in fact be unbiased. And so, we're excited about it. But we understand it's a long process ahead of us.
BURNETT: All right. And I want to follow up with you on a lot of things you just said, Reverend. First of all, the point you just made, that African-Americans can celebrate that the justice system just worked. You know that you learned that three of the six officers charged in Freddie Gray's death are black and one officer as you know charged with second degree murder, the one driving the van, he is black.
Does that give you pause at all?
BRYANT: Yes.
No, because in Baltimore where the population is 64 percent black, we've got a black mayor, we've got a black comptroller, a black president of city council, black president of commissioner of the police department.
It's not a black/white issue here. It is a black, blue and green issue. And so, we're talking about it how it is that the police department has, in fact, a different level of accountability than African Americans, no matter what color the police officers are, there's still a different level and they disconnect.
What Marilyn Mosby did today was said that everybody has to be accountable by it and has given us a sigh of relief. Nowhere in this 11-day cycle have you heard any charge about racism. So, it hasn't been about color. It's been about character.
BURNETT: There have been a lot of people talking about racism. Maybe you haven't been one of them. It's been kind of nationwide, a much bigger discussion, because I hear your point, the Baltimore police racially match the demographics of the city than certainly in a place like Ferguson.
BRYANT: Yes.
BURNETT: Pastor, you marched today with Sybrina Fulton, the mother of Trayvon Martin. I know you spent a lot of time with her during that entire case. Here's somewhat she had to say about the charges when we asked her.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SYBRINA FULTON, MOTHER OF TRAYVON MARTIN: Although they might be charged, they have not been convicted of anything. And in our case with Trayvon Martin, the person was charged, yes they were charged and we had a full trial. But at the end of the day, he was not convicted. So, he's walking around just like anybody else as if he has done nothing.
(END VIDEO CLIP) BURNETT: And that's the issue, Reverend, for many people, right?
There were charges, as she points, but not a conviction. You didn't get a conviction with Trayvon Matter. You didn't get it with Michael Brown in Ferguson. You didn't get it with Eric Garner.
"The San Francisco Chronicle" reports, in 20 years, 17 police officers in the U.S. have been charged with murder.
[19:40:01] None of those officers were convicted. Will Baltimore be any different?
BRYANT: It is my hope, and that is the prayer of so many people around this city and even the larger world when you see that the protests now are rising up in Philadelphia, Chicago, D.C. and New York. All of us are getting in line because it's not really a Baltimore issue. It's a larger conversation of a black America issue.
BURNETT: It is. And I guess there's the question here. As the facts come out, what is more important at this point? What is more beneficial, a conviction for the sake of a conviction or not a conviction if for some reason you're surprised and some of the facts don't match exactly what you expect now and you think maybe one isn't warranted.
BRYANT: Well, you've got to go back to the very principle. He had -- Mr. Gray had no business, one, in the police vehicle because there were no charges. If you look at the original police report, they arrested him on no merit and were taking him to the precinct.
The larger question we've got to be asking is, why was he arrested when there was no charge? And if there's no charge, why are you taking him to the precinct and why is he shackled as a criminal when you've got charged him?
They broke so many laws before he ever got in the coma, before he ever got in the vehicle and before he ever died. So, you have a whole lot of missteps.
In the very first press conference, if you'll go back, the mayor acknowledged that he didn't get the necessary health needs met. If in fact this they would have done that -- there are so many different steps that show an impropriety that have to be addressed. And so, that's why you see a litany of different laws that the officers broke.
BURNETT: And they do, and I want to talk about Officer Goodson. He is as I mentioned, the only one charged with murder. He was driving the van. We actually have his picture for the first time. So, I'm going to show that to our viewers this.
This is Officer Goodson, everybody, as I understand, born in 1969, charged with second degree murder, involuntary manslaughter, manslaughter by vehicle, misconduct, failure to render aid as well. They're also charging him with the one who was delaying in terms of calling an ambulance when Freddie Gray requested it.
Pastor, how important is a conviction in Officer Goodson? And the reason I ask about him specifically, he's the only one charged with murder.
BRYANT: Yes. Well, you have to understand that you have just participated in shock therapy for America tonight. Just now you made history, because most Americans are not used to seeing a picture or a mugshot of a police officer.
Most of America has painted the face of crime as African- Americans. We have felt a level of victory just based off of what it is you have done. Moving in the direction towards justice is getting a whole lot closer than where we were on Monday. It changes the narrative for African Americans and the prospect of those who believe in the judicial system.
The reason why it's so critical is Ms. Mosby, the youngest state's attorney of an urban city in America was just elected. So, several lessons have been learned today. The power of your vote and the power of your protests makes a difference to so many people who, prior to this afternoon, felt disenfranchised.
BURNETT: All right. Reverend, thank you very much. And gain, everyone, these are new pictures we have, Officer Goodson, the officer driving the van, the only man charged with murder. He is a long time member of the Baltimore police force. He is, of course, African American charge with second degree murder.
BRYANT: Thank you.
BURNETT: OUTFRONT next, did the officer who drove Freddie Gray cause his injuries by purposely turning and braking hard? That is now the core question here. It's an alleged tactic called a rough ride. And we have a special report.
And from Rodney King to Freddie Gray, another special report OUTFRONT on this Friday, an alleged police abuse caught on tape and the riots that have followed across America.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:47:30] BURNETT: Breaking news tonight: live pictures out of Baltimore. We have very large crowds tonight. Six officers now charged in the death of Freddie Gray.
A pastor just telling me they didn't expect these charges. He said it was shock and awe to even get the charges. The driver of the police van that carried Gray through Baltimore has been charged with second degree murder. This is the mugshot of him that you're looking at, and his name is Officer Goodson, Caesar Goodson, Jr. He's a 45- year-old black officer who's also been charged with two counts of manslaughter by vehicle.
Did Goodson purposely drive erratically, making fast turns and braking suddenly with the intention of harming Gray? Gray was in the back of the van, he was handcuffed, he was shackled but he was not restrained by a seat belt. If this happened, here's the thing -- it would be sort of business as usual.
Jean Casarez is OUTFRONT.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MARILYN MOSBY, BALTIMORE CITY STATE'S ATTORNEY: Mr. Gray suffered a severe and critical neck injury as a result of being handcuffed, shackled by his feet and unrestrained inside of the BPD wagon.
JEAN CASAREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Baltimore State Attorney Marilyn Mosby made it clear today she knows how 25-year-old Freddie Gray was killed.
MOSBY: At no point was he secured by a seat belt while in the wagon contrary to a BPD general order.
CASAREZ: But whether she can prove Gray was murdered a result of the rough ride in the police wagon is still unclear.
For years, police departments across the country have been accused of rough rides or driving aggressively with the suspect with the intention of tossing them around as a form of punishment.
ROBERT KLOTZ, FORMER DEPUTY CHIEF OF POLICE, WASHINGTON, D.C.: You start taking curves in a very fast and sharp manner, if you run through a lot of pothole areas. There's other things that could be done that would cause the individual to bounce off walls or bounce up and down or fall down.
CASAREZ: Lawsuits filed in Chicago, Philadelphia and Baltimore show just how serious these rides can be.
In 2005, Donte Johnson was paralyzed and later died as a ride with the Baltimore police. His family was awarded more than $7 million. That was later reduced to $219,000. No officers were charged.
In 2001, "The Philadelphia Inquirer" documented 20 cases where individuals were seriously injured after being transported. In 1985, Chicago settled a suit against one man for injures he sustained after being arrested and put in a wagon for disorderly conduct.
[19:50:01] CNN was able to obtain legal documents from the Chicago's ACLU who helped represent him where he won $135,000 after injures. The city of Chicago outlined recommendations at the time to ensure safety of those being transported.
Number one on the list: elimination of protrusions in the wagon that could injure, and seat belts.
MOSBY: Officer Goodson returned to his driver's seat and proceeded towards the central booking and intake facility with Mr. Gray still unsecured by a seat belt contrary to a BPD general order.
CASAREZ: A recommendation the Baltimore attorney says was ignored while transporting Freddie Gray.
Jean Casarez, CNN, New York.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BURNETT: All right. Now, joining me OUTFRONT, the forensic pathologist, Dr. Cyril Wecht.
Dr. Wecht, we now have, all right, for the first an image of the only officer charged with murder, six of them charged with various things, including manslaughter. But, Doctor, Caesar Goodson, Officer Caesar Goodson, is the only one charged with murder, he's the one driving the van. So, obviously, that's the big burden of proof, proving it was his driving of that van that caused Freddie Gray to die.
How hard is that to prove from a forensic point of view?
DR. CYRIL WECHT, FORENSIC PATHOLOGIST: Not at all. Where else, and at what time did the injures occur if not then?
I still believe there is a strong possibility that there might have been an in fracture from the initial altercation that the police have insisted never took place and now we learn one of the officers did lean heavily on his back when Mr. Gray was placed prone face down already in a semi hog-tied position and allowed to sit up and then placed back into that position and then lifted into the van. It seemed he was not able already to walk and placed in the van in a full hog-tied position because now his ankles are restrained and his feet and his ankles and wrists are restrained. It is an inert object and as the car moves, then the body flops around.
That is clear evidence that the injuries that were significant enough to produce a near total severance of the spinal cord, something I can assure you and since I've been talking about this case, I've talked with neurosurgeons and other forensic pathologists --
BURNETT: Yes.
WECHT: -- and emergency trauma people, everybody agrees this takes a tremendous amount of force such as a high speed motor vehicular accident, and from the very beginning to the end, when he begged and yelled for treatment for assistance and they ignored him. I mean, what more need there be to sustain the kind of charge that has been brought against Goodson and the other officers?
I don't -- I really don't understand the hesitation, the equivocation here. He did not come to that scene, Freddie Gray, with vertebrae fractures. He would not be running and moving the way he was. He was injured -- he was injured by the cops.
They want to say, well, gee, maybe it didn't all happen in the van. Let it say it could have happened him in the van and for what, from looking at the police. Fine, and jump from the frying pan into the fire.
It's in their hands, in their bailiwick. I don't see what all of this incredible fuzz is about. These are charges. The medical examiner's office has to be
commended for calling this a homicide and not equivocating on the manner of death and calling it undetermined, let alone suicide, which is a nonsense that was spewed forth over the last 24 hours, that Mr. Gray hurled himself around in the van and bang his head and caused these fractures, which I pointed were totally absurd allegations.
BURNETT: All right. Well, Dr. Wecht, I appreciate your time. Thank you.
And OUTFRONT next, we are now getting, as I speak, the mug shots for the other officers. So, we're going to show you all of them. We have the other five now charged in the Freddie Gray death.
We're going to show you exactly who they are, tell you what we know about them as we go live to the streets of Baltimore. This is the one shot we have now. We're going to get the others in place and have them for you after this break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:58:05] BURNETT: Breaking news, we now have the mug shots of all six officers charged into the death of Freddie Gray. This is just into CNN. They've been charged with crimes from murder to manslaughter and assault. From left to right, let me tell you who they are.
Officer Garrett Miller on the far left, 26 years old, charges with second-degree assault.
Officer Edward Nero, moving in, the man with the mustache, second one. Edward Nero, 29 years old, charged with second-degree assault.
Lieutenant Brian Rice, the man in the middle that you see there, 41 years old, charged with involuntary manslaughter, second-degree assault.
Sergeant Alicia White. You see there. Did I get them all or did I miss one? Officer Alicia White, correct, sergeant, 30 years old.
And Officer Goodson, the driver of the police van, he received the most serious charge, second degree murder. He is 45 years old and Alicia White, the sergeant is 30 years old.
So, most of these people are very young. All but two of them are 30 or younger.
Let's go live to Miguel Marquez in Baltimore.
What more can you tell us about these officers, Miguel? I'm just pointing out that four of the six are very young.
MIGUEL MARQUEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Very young. And this crowd -- thousands strong now down MLK Boulevard will be happy to see those booking photos of the officers. Three different protests came together at Pennsylvania and North today and now marching toward MLK. And I want to bring this 16-year-old.
Very quickly, Isaiah, what has this week been like?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It has been crazy. I have seen a lot of things happen. Riots, protests and this protest is really good. And it makes me happy that these police officers have been charged with the crime that they committed.
MARQUEZ: All right, my friend.
Now, they'll all want to see whether or not those charges lead to convictions. That is the one big thing they are waiting for -- Erin.
BURNETT: It is the big thing they're waiting for, Miguel, as we pointed out. That is something that almost never happens in this country, going to be a major, major question in Baltimore.
Thanks for joining us.
Our breaking news coverage continues with Anderson.
