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Erin Burnett Outfront
Obama Dives Into GOP Primary Fight, Slams Donald Trump; Trump's Poll Numbers UP Despite Flip-Flopping On Issues; Huckabee: "Will Not Apologize" For Holocaust Remark; New Video Shows Gunman at Motel Before Attack; Crews Expanding Search for Two Teen Fishermen; Woman Shoots Dead Possible Serial Killer. Aired 7-8p ET
Aired July 27, 2015 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[19:00:11] KATE BOLDUAN, CNN GUEST HOST: OUTFRONT tonight, President Obama blasting republican presidential candidates calling Donald Trump out by name. Why is he going out of his way to take on the Republicans?
Plus, Mike Huckabee not backing down from his controversial charge that the Iran nuke deal would march Israelis to, quote, "the doors of the oven." Did he go too far? Republican Party's chief strategist is OUTFRONT tonight.
And two teens gone fishing now missing at sea. The massive search at this hour expanding hundreds of miles to the north. Are they still alive? Let's go OUTFRONT.
Good evening. I'm Kate Bolduan in for Erin Burnett. OUTFRONT tonight, lashing out, President Obama diving into the GOP war of words and calling out Donald Trump. In fact, when asked a question about Mike Huckabee, the President seemed to go out of his way to turn his remarks to Trump a number of times.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: When you look at what's happening with Mr. Trump, when he has made some of the remarks that, for example, challenge the heroism of Mr. McCain, somebody who endured torture and conducted himself with exemplary patriotism, the Republican Party is shocked.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BOLDUAN: The latest CNN poll makes it clear, though, that Trump's remarks didn't dent his popularity. This was the first poll conducted since Trump ignited a firestorm of criticism by questioning Senator John McCain's status as a war hero. Now Trump leads the GOP field with 18 percent followed by Jeb Bush at 15 percent and Scott Walker at 10. And you see the rest of the field of candidates in single digits.
Jim Acosta is OUTFRONT from Ethiopia where he is traveling with President Obama. Jim, it's great to see you. Until now President Obama hasn't really mentioned Trump by name at all. I mean, it's pretty significant that he's weighing in right now, right? JIM ACOSTA, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Kate.
It has been almost White House policy to stay clear of the 2016 race especially Donald Trump. But here in Ethiopia, half a world away from the campaign trail, President Obama jumped right in today, he slammed Mike Huckabee for predicting the Iran nuclear deal would lead to a holocaust for Israel saying the former Arkansas governor was simply trying to outdo the more sensational Donald Trump. And then the President went after Trump as you said hitting the GOP frontrunner for saying, John McCain was not a war hero despite being a former P.O.W. And the President accused the entire GOP field of being engaged in a race to the bottom. Here is more of what the President had to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OBAMA: And I recognize when outrageous statements like that are made about me, that a lot of the same people who are outrage when they're made about Mr. McCain were pretty quiet. The point is, we're creating a culture that is not conducive to good policy or good politics. The American people deserve better.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ACOSTA: Now, a Trump reference is nearly unheard of around the White House. Press Secretary Josh Earnest rarely mentions Trump by name, and the President has tangled with Trump before. Remember over the GOP contenders past bogus claims that Mr. Obama was not born in the U.S. And so, that explains why the White House simply feels like talking about Donald Trump just adds fuel to the fire and that's something that they just don't want to do -- Kate.
BOLDUAN: It seems there must be a change in that strategy at least at the moment. Jim, it's great to see you. Thank you so much. So, Trump is known for making big promises and bold claims. But behind that rhetoric, his positions have changed and dramatically in some circumstances. The big question though, do voters care?
Tom Foreman is OUTFRONT.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): He has big money, a big mouth --
TRUMP: I wonder if the Mexican government sent them over here.
FOREMAN: And big numbers. He leads the latest CNN ORC poll with 52 percent of Republicans saying they want Donald Trump to stay in the race. Only 33 percent want him out despite sharp attacks from republican opponents.
JEB BUSH (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I don't want to be associated with the kind of vitriol that he's spewing out these days.
FOREMAN: The Trump train is driven by fans who like the way he tells it like it is. Trump's beliefs are hard to pin down.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I know you're opposed to abortion.
TRUMP: Right. I'm pro-choice.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You're pro-choice or pro-life?
TRUMP: I'm pro-life. I'm sorry.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Pro-life.
FOREMAN: On health care, for example, Trump in 1999.
TRUMP: So, I'm very liberal when it comes to health care. I believe in universal health care.
FOREMAN: The next year he pushed the idea of government funding writing, we need as a nation to re-examine the single payer plan. But now --
TRUMP: We have a disaster called the big lie, ObamaCare.
FOREMAN: On illegal immigration, the turns took less time. Trump in mid-June.
TRUMP: I will build a great, great wall on our southern border, and I will have Mexico pay for that wall.
FOREMAN: Trump by June's end.
TRUMP: You have to give them a path and you have to make it possible for them to succeed.
FOREMAN: And now?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You're in favor of a wall?
TRUMP: Oh, yes, in certain sections, you have to have a wall. Absolutely.
[19:05:36] FOREMAN: Sometimes, the apparent contradictions may be a matter of nuance. Other times, listen to Trump on possible democratic nominee Hillary Clinton in 2007.
TRUMP: And I think Hillary is very, very capable.
FOREMAN: And now?
TRUMP: Look, easily she's the worst secretary of state in the history of our country.
FOREMAN: Even his party affiliation is hard to pin down. Back in the '90s Trump was a republican. Then he jumped to the reform party. Then he shifted again.
TRUMP: Well, you'd be shocked if I said that in many cases I probably identify more as a democrat.
FOREMAN: And now --
TRUMP: Look, I'm a republican. I'm a conservative.
FOREMAN: He might sum it all up in a phrase.
TRUMP: Well, at least I'm consistent.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
FOREMAN: Voters who love Trump insist he is consistent. He consistently shares the broad public contempt for Washington, and he consistently says plainly what he thinks with little worry about fallout. But that is also precisely the trait that makes it easy to find inconsistencies that in the long run can tear even a popular candidate to pieces -- Kate.
BOLDUAN: Tearing that popular candidate to pieces is definitely not happened yet when you look at these latest polls. Great to lay it out, though. Thanks so much, Tom.
OUTFRONT tonight, Andy Card, chief-of-staff under President George W. Bush, is now supporting Jeb Bush for president. And Jeffrey Lord who worked in the Reagan White House is now contributing editor to "The American Spectator." It's great to see you both. Thank you so much.
So, Andy, you just heard Tom Foreman did a great job of kind of laying out these consistent inconsistencies. Donald Trump has changed his position on multiple issues, and we now know that flip-flopping is generally a problem for candidates running for president. Yet Trump still leads the republican field. Why do you think?
ANDREW CARD, FORMER WHITE HOUSE CHIEF-OF-STAFF FOR PRES. GEORGE W. BUSH: First of all, we're in the celebrity phase of the campaign where people are looking to basically become stars so that you can learn more about them and pay more attention. In one sense Donald Trump is helping the Republican Party get more attention in the primary. But it's not the same thing as, is he qualified to be president? Is he qualified to even have the nomination of the Republican Party? So this is a celebrity face. I don't put a lot of account into what's happening in the polls right now. I can tell you this. I think Jeb Bush is going to be strong, steady, and consistent in his leadership and he will make a big difference when he gets the republican nomination and he will be president of the United States.
BOLDUAN: Well, you just saw that poll -- and I want to put that back up, Jeffrey. Because I want to ask you about this. Kind of to Andy's point, the latest CNN/ROC poll shows that 40 percent of all registered voters, they think Jeb Bush will eventually become the republican nominee. You see Trump there, he's only at 18 percent in this part of the poll. But a majority of GOP voters still want Trump to stay in the race. It is purely for entertainment value at this point?
JEFFREY LORD, CONTRIBUTING EDITOR, "THE AMERICAN SPECTATOR": No, I think the key figure in this poll Kate, is the 53 percent that feel they're not represented in Washington, that they just don't like what's going on there at all. They're very unhappy particular with the republican establishment of which Governor Bush is the representative of all of that, or one of them at least. So, I think that that figure is very key here and these are a very determined group of people. I think Donald Trump is right. There is a movement out there. And I think that that's going to play a real role in all of this.
BOLDUAN: Oh, I mean, especially to that. He said he call that, he thinks it's bigger than them. He thinks it's a movement -- he said that to Jake Tapper on Sunday. So Trump has also hinted with that in mind, Jeffrey, Trump hinted last week that he's not ruling out launching a third party run. He's walked it back a bit. I never know where he stands on an issue from day-to-day, but today the head of the RNC, he said he thinks the republican candidates, they should all pledge to not run as third party candidates. Do you think the republican establishment is afraid of Donald Trump, Jeffrey?
LORD: Yes. Yes, I do. And I'll tell you something they should be afraid of here. One of the reasons that Governor Romney was not President Romney is the base of the Republican Party didn't turn out in the kind of numbers they needed to elect Governor Romney. I think we have to be very careful here. The party has to be very careful that if they select someone other than Mr. Trump who is seen to represent the party establishment that, once again, we'll find a Republican Party on the losing end of the election ballots because the base just simply won't turn out for him.
[19:10:06] BOLDUAN: So, Andy, real quick, to that point, I mean, how is Jeb Bush going to ignite that kind of enthusiasm we're seeing for Donald Trump right now, or do you think, I mean, he needs to light a fire somewhere. Are they just kind of pacing themselves, treating it as a marathon, not a sprint?
CARD: Oh, this is definitely a marathon and not a sprint. We haven't even had the real first debate yet and we don't even know how the first debate will go because of the debate about the participation in the debate. So, we're a long way from establishing who the real front-runner in the party is. I think Jeb Bush is the front-runner. He's the most stable. He's the most proven in terms of being able to lead. But I think the party has got to come together. I don't want to see a third-party candidate. That's basically handing success to the Democrats if we have a third-party candidate coming from the right. I can't imagine that Donald Trump would want that to happen for the country.
So, I suspect that he will be a candidate until he's no longer viable to be a candidate. I think that will come sooner rather than later. But Jeb has the staying power. I think -- Jeb is also reflecting the maturity of being a president. It's one thing to be a bomb tosser or a populist to try to motivate by people's emotion. We actually don't want a president who is driven by emotion, we want someone who is driven by doing what is thoughtfully right for the country and having the courage not only to be popular but the courage to be lonely in making the tough decision that count.
BOLDUAN: They're going to be tested in that first debate, that's for sure. If you'll allow me, Andy, I do want to switch gears for a moment. This is a perfect opportunity that we have you on. Because the national archives, they just released these never-before-seen photos from September 11th. And we see you in a lot of these photographs with President Bush, with Vice President Cheney, with the national security team. What goes through your mind when you see these images from that horrific day and the aftermath thereafter?
CARD: Well, the photographs are a wonderful walk down Memory Lane, but the truth is what I don't want people to forget is what happened that day, and the innocent victims, the unbelievable torture that took place by terrorists attacking this country, and then the heroic response from the first responders who many of them became victims. That's what we said we would never forget, and we don't want it to happen again. So, these photographs are a good memory for what took place that day, and I want people to focus on what it means to be able to make sure that day never happens again.
So if the photographs do that, that's great. If it's just a trip for Andy cog down memory lane with the people that he respects and works with and watched remarkably and do a remarkable job, that's great, too. But it's really about, let's not forget the sacrifices that were made that day, the innocent victims that day, and the need to continue to have strong leadership that will protect America. President George W. Bush and Vice President Dick Cheney did a fabulous job of rising to the responsibility of keeping their unbelievably challenging oath to protect America.
BOLDUAN: You can really see the strain throughout those photos. I was really struck by seeing the strain on Vice President Cheney's face as well as President Bush's face throughout those photos.
Thank you both. It's great to see you. Thanks so much, guys.
OUTFRONT next, Mike Huckabee says the Iran nuke deal will march Israelis, in his words, to the door of the oven. Despite heavy criticism, Huckabee is not backing down tonight.
Plus, new video of the Louisiana movie theater shooter just before the attack. Investigators are also revealing tonight the last notes he left behind. And a massive search at sea for two teenagers only the capsized fishing boat was found. Ahead, the coast guard says -- why the coast guard says they could still be alive.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:17:30] BOLDUAN: So Mike Huckabee is refusing to back down tonight. The republican presidential candidate evoke the holocaust when he criticized President Obama and the Iran nuclear deal. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
FMR. GOV. MIKE HUCKABEE (R), ARKANSAS: This president's foreign policy is the most reckless in American history. He's so naive he would trust the Iranians and take the Israelis and basically march them to the door of the oven.
(END VIDEO CLIP) BOLDUAN: And tonight he was given the opportunity again to apologize and he refused.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HUCKABEE: I will not apologize and I will not recant because the word holocaust was invoked by the Iranian government. They used that very word.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BOLDUAN: President Obama even weighed in from Ethiopia.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OBAMA: The particular comments of Mr. Huckabee are, I think, part of just a general pattern that we've seen that is -- would be considered ridiculous if it weren't so sad.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BOLDUAN: Elise Labott is OUTFRONT tonight in Washington. So, Elise, President Obama is not the only one blasting Governor Huckabee here. Huckabee is getting criticism from the Left and the Right.
ELISE LABOTT, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Pretty wildly criticized, Kate. Listen, Jewish groups, anti-Semitism groups like the anti-defamation league, Simon Wiesenthal, senator who speaks out about raising awareness about the holocaust came out and said, remarks totally offensive and out of line and not surprisingly democratic presidential candidates are getting in on that, governor of Maryland, Martin O'Malley, former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton saying that the remarks are out of line. But even Republicans, some of them in the 2016 fields, are coming out against these remarks. In fact, there's one area where Hillary Clinton and Jeb Bush agree. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Comments like these are offensive and they have no place in our political dialogue. I am -- I'm disappointed and I'm really offended personally.
BUSH: The use of that kind of language is just wrong. This is not the way we're going to win elections. And that's not how we're going to solve problems. So, it's an unfortunate remark. I'm not quite sure why he felt compelled to say it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LABOTT: Now Scott Walker kind of walked a fine line there saying that you wouldn't hear him hear this language and, you know, kind of suggesting that the comments speak for themselves but not coming out and criticizing Huckabee's point. But the legal counsel for Trump actually said that Huckabee is totally right and said that, you know, you need to use these strong words because you want a strong America and that's very much in line with the idea that Trump has been using. But it just goes to what President Obama went on to say when he was in Ethiopia that there's this climate where people are trying to say, you know, outrageous things to get attention. And so whether these remarks -- clearly there's a lot of opposition to this Iran deal, but I think what this administration is trying to do is have a more civil discourse and not let those types of, you know, sensational comments get in the way of a more intelligent and thoughtful debate on the Iran deal issue -- Kate.
BOLDUAN: The more you shout, the more attention you're getting. That's for sure, that seems to be the way it is right now. Elise, it's great to see you. Thank you so much.
So right now Sean Spicer is joining me tonight. He's the chief strategist and communications director for Republican National Committee. Shawn, it's great to see you. Thank you for being in here. So, is Governor Huckabee crossing a line here? He is still not apologizing tonight.
SEAN SPICER, CHIEF STRATEGIST, REPUBLICAN NATIONAL COMMITTEE: I think there's widespread concern about this Iran agreement or proposal, rather. I'm not here to decide what comments are in or out. That's for each candidate. And, you know, if the governor stands by him, that's not his call. Our job at the RNC is not to get in the middle of policy discussions.
BOLDUAN: But in a political debate, more broadly speaking then, is it ever appropriate to evoke the holocaust? What does the RNC think about that, Sean?
SPICER: Well, I think Governor Huckabee was referring to comments that the Ayatollah had made about what they wanted -- what Iran wants to do to Israel. That is a fact. The Ayatollah has used that word and used it with respect to what Iran wants to do with Israel. And I think it's up to Governor Huckabee to talk about whether what he is exactly meant on that though.
BOLDUAN: So, you say it's not your position to decide what comments are right, what comments are wrong, what comments are in, what comments are out.
SPICER: That's right.
[19:22:12] BOLDUAN: So, as Chairman Reince said earlier, you guys are not in the game, in the job of calling balls and strikes. So, your job is not to call balls and strikes with one candidate, but then that seems exactly what you did with another candidate when it comes to Donald Trump in questioning John McCain's war hero status. So what is the difference here then, Sean?
SPICER: Right. I think Kate, there's a huge difference. John McCain was our nominee in 2008. We got a lot of calls and questions about whether or not we stood by his record as a war hero. I think that's a vastly different question than how to describe a particular policy position. BOLDUAN: But in your statement you said there's no place in our party
or a country for comments that disparage those who have served honorably. I mean, I don't want to make -- I don't think we at all want to get into trying to compare what raises to the level of needing the RNC to comment on. But you're talking about the war heroes -- candidate. And you're talking about like the holocaust. They're both seem I think pretty relatively important things, don't you think? What's the trepidation in talking about this?
SPICER: Well, again, we're not here to be the referee. I think clearly Governor Huckabee was using words and phrases that the Ayatollah himself has used to describe what Iran would do in Israel. It is not for me or for the RNC to decide what is an appropriate use -- when that's appropriate or not. But it's not like the governor was disparaging the holocaust. I think he was clearly showing a level of respect and how important this deal was and why his opposition was -- or why he believes we need to oppose this deal. And again, it is not for me to get into each candidate and say, that was appropriate. This wasn't appropriate. But I think that we can understand where Governor Huckabee was coming from and what he was trying to communicate. But, again, we're not going to sit here night after night and decide, you know, Ted Cruz said this, Chris Christie said this, Rand Paul said this, is this right or wrong? At the end of the day, there's one thing to have different policy views or different discussions on experience and then what Reince and myself talked about, the name calling among Republicans to each other goes to.
BOLDUAN: So we're talking about, you know, you talk about Donald Trump and those remarks that he made and talking about John McCain's war hero status. There's no question right now when you look at these most recent polls that CNN just put out that he's going to be on the debate stage next month. You put out a really interesting piece earlier today saying that you guys have really worked to try to improve the debates. The candidates themselves, Sean, are criticizing the process for limiting the number of people who can make it on the main stage. They say it really only benefits those who yell the loudest, their celebrities, or they have high name I.D. I mean, it's only July. Do they have a point?
SPICER: Look, the debates started in May of 2011 last cycle. So, it's a little different, comparing apples to oranges. But at the end of the day the reality is only, the greatest number of people ever to appear on any debate stage or either party is ten. Both CNN and FOX are matching that and then going the extra step of saying there are other really qualified candidates or, if you will, that make up this group of top 16, and we want to make sure that we're inclusive and get them to have a voice. I get it's not perfect. Nobody is saying it's perfect.
I'll be the first to admit that. I think the chairman would be the second one. But at the end of the day I commend both CNN and FOX for finding a way to give a voice to everybody who is in the top 16. Because that's what this is all about. And so and I would say that for some of these candidates if you look at the historical precedent of saying that you have to be at a minimum of one percent --
BOLDUAN: Yes.
SPICER: -- you know, right now those people are getting that voice that they otherwise might have been denied in previous cycles.
BOLDUAN: Sean, thank you so much. It's going to be interesting, to say the very least.
SPICER: Thanks, Kate.
BOLDUAN: Great to see you.
SPICER: Thank you.
BOLDUAN: OUTFRONT next, new surveillance video of the gunman in the Louisiana movie theater shooting leaving his hotel room and then there's a journal that police just found noting exactly where he would strike.
And two Florida teens are missing at sea days after heading out on a fishing trip. The search area is getting bigger tonight as bad weather rolls in.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:30:05] BOLDUAN: New clues tonight into a Louisiana gunman's final hours before he opened fire at a Lafayette theater killing two people.
Surveillance video from the motel where John Houser was staying shows the gunman at the front desk. You see it there. He was also seen walking the hallways. And then minutes before the movie would start, Houser is seen leaving the motel.
Also today, funerals for the two women killed in the attack.
Ryan Nobles is OUTFRONT live in Lafayette.
And, Ryan, what more did police really uncover now in Houser's hotel room?
RYAN NOBLES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Kate, a lot has happened here today in Lafayette.
This building behind me no longer an active crime scene. The owners have control of it. Police tell us they hope to open very soon, and the investigation into the attack that happened here continues.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
NOBLES (voice-over): A chilling picture is emerging about the man who opened fire in the Grand Theater in Lafayette, Louisiana.
Surveillance footage obtained by CBS news shows the shooter at his motel just moments before he left to attend the 7:00 showing of the movie "Trainwreck." It was there he sat in the back row, waited some 20 minutes until the previews ended. That's when he began shooting, killing two women and wounding nine others. COLONEL MICHAEL EDMONSON, LOUISIANA STATE POLICE: This man was
certainly of sound mind because, you know what, he wrote it down. He said he's coming to this movie theater at 7:15 on Thursday night.
NOBLES (on camera): It was in a room in this Motel 6 just a few miles from the theater where Houser documented his planned attack in a secret diary.
(voice-over): He left his hotel room trashed. What still isn't clear, why he chose Lafayette, a town one study recently listed as one of the happiest places in America.
MAYOR JOEY DUREL, LAFAYETTE, LOUISIANA: I think we likely will never get a real firm answer to that question.
NOBLES: Houser was a drifter. He lived in Georgia. Last year was evicted from a house in Alabama just over the Georgia state line. It was at a pawnshop in Alabama where he legally bought the .40 caliber pistol he used in the attack. His time in Lafayette was short, and not much is known about what he was up to.
DUREL: We know he was trying to drum up some support for a business he would like to have open. We know he was at the end of his rope financially.
NOBLES: Investigators have finished processing the crime scene but are still digging into Houser's past.
EDMONSON: We're still interviewing people. We're still sending officers out to different locations.
NOBLES: As for the community of Lafayette, residents are remembering the two lives lost and hoping to heal from a tragedy that changed their town forever.
DUREL: Their victims will have brought a community together as one.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
NOBLES: And some good news to report tonight about those victims. Another victim released from the hospital today. That means only two victims are left to recover in the hospital. Remember, Kate, at one point, there were nine people wounded and hospitalized in this attack -- Kate.
BOLDUAN: At least some good news there. Brian, thank you.
OUTFRONT with us now, Tony Bourque, the lead pastor of Water's Edge Church, that's where John Houser went for help and food just days before the shooting.
Tony, so Houser comes to your church. He spends over an hour there. What was he doing there? What was he like?
TONY BOURQUE, PASTOR: Well, when he came to our church, we have a food pantry every Thursday that's open from 10:00 in the morning until 2:00 in the afternoon. And we probably feed between 500 to 600 people every week on that day, and he came to our church just looking for food.
But while he was there, he decided to sit down and stay for a while, and he just began to cry. And he cried a lot and he kept telling our food pantry volunteers he was severely depressed and he kept asking for prayer.
BOLDUAN: He also has a history of going off on rants. We've heard that from people who knew him in the past. It seems he did just that to some of your volunteers.
What was he saying?
BOURQUE: Well, there was a time when he was crying a lot and asking for prayer, and then my food pantry director, Kelly Stowiki (ph), told me that he stopped doing that for a little while. He stood up and he got very loud, and he was basically expressing his dislike for the LGBT community.
And one of our volunteers said we don't say those things at our church and to sit down. And he did. He sat down and got quiet. He began to cry again and began to ask for more prayer after that.
BOLDUAN: And looking back, this strange encounter must take on an absolutely different meaning for you now.
BOURQUE: It does. I heard a teacher by the name of Rob Bell last week, something that helped me out a lot. He said, there's no intellectual category for tragedies and suffering like this. And I tried to tell our volunteers because they were really beating themselves up after this thinking they maybe could have said more, they could have done more, and their hearts were hurting for the victims, Jillian and Mayci.
[19:35:00] I told them, there's no intellectual category for something like this. It's just too big for our minds. And I told them they did all that they could do, and they didn't know what he was planning on doing in Lafayette.
BOLDUAN: That's for sure.
Tony Bourque, thanks so much for your time.
BOURQUE: Thank you.
BOLDUAN: Of course.
Also joining me now is Buzz Von Ornsteiner. He's a forensic psychologist.
Buzz, thanks so much for coming in.
BUZZ VON ORNSTEINER, FORENSIC PSYCHOLOGIST: Sure.
BOLDUAN: You just heard from the pastor there. I mean, it gives you a little window in, if you can, into the mind of this killer days before the attack. He goes in, he's asking for forgiveness. He's asking for prayer. He's crying. He's depressed. And he's also going on rants, really homophobic rants.
VON ORNSTEINER: Right.
BOLDUAN: What does that tell you? Was that a cry for help?
VON ORNSTEINER: Well, if you keep in mind you're trying to make logic and rationale from a mind that's skewed and there's mental illness, there's probably personality disorder, you're trying to make sense of a senseless act. What I think it was planned. This man had anger. That anger was pervasive. This attack was planned.
And, honestly, he had homosexual rants and blame, but the anger was pervasive and ultimately that's what happens to people who have anger issues. Many times, they seek to explain their viewpoints, but then they seek agreement and they seek relationships with others who agree with them.
Finding none of that from the church, he eventually left. But I think he was going to the church to pray, since he felt he was doing God's work. I think he went to the church to pray because he knew that his life might be taken.
And, again, I don't think he intended on committing suicide. I think his goal, his drive was to kill, to commit mass murder, to make revenge on people that he felt were different from himself. But he also knew that it might jeopardize his own life.
And with a personality such as his, narcissistic and anti-social traits, it was all about him. And so, I think doing God's work in his skewed mind, he thought I'm going to the church and I'm going to have them pray so I can survive this.
BOLDUAN: And they still are searching for a motive. And the more we learn, the more and more I think we may never get a firm answer of why. It seems impossible.
Buzz, thank you so much for coming in.
VON ORNSTEINER: Sure.
BOLDUAN: We appreciate it.
OUTFRONT next, a massive search area about the size of Indiana for two teens who went out fishing and never returned. Why searchers, though, say they could still be alive. And a woman's frantic call to 911.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
911 CALLER: He opened the door and said, "Live or die". I wrestled him. He was going to kill me.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BOLDUAN: Did her online encounter lead police to a serial killer?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:41:38] BOLDUAN: Tonight, rescuers are expanding their search for two teenagers missing at sea. Fourteen-year-old Austin Stephanos and Perry Cohen, they were last seen Friday buying fuel. Their 19-foot boat capsized off the coast of Florida. It was discovered Sunday. But the teens were nowhere in sight.
Martin Savidge is OUTFRONT in Jupiter, Florida, where the teens were last seen.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CAPT. MARK FEDOR, CHIEF OF RESPONSE, MIAMI COAST GUARD: In the warm water you can survive for quite a few days. Four to five days in these conditions.
MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): More than 72 hours after best friends, Perry Cohen and Austin Stephanos, set off for a day of fishing on their 19-foot boat, the two 14-year-olds remain missing. But the two boys, like a lot of kids who grow up by an ocean, the water is their backyard.
Last Friday, what was to be a few hours on that water turned into something else -- a parent's worst fear.
CARLY BLACK, MOTHER OF MISSING TEEN AUSTIN STEFANOS: As a mother, the worst feeling ever, not knowing where your child is.
SAVIDGE: The frantic search began on the sea and on the air.
PETTY OFFICER 1ST CLASS STEPHEN LEHMANN, PUBLIC INFO OFFICER, COAST GUARD: Right now, our search area is about 33,500 square land miles, which is approximately the size of Maine.
SAVIDGE: The search area has continued to grow, along with the fears of family and friends, among them football legend Joe Namath.
JOE NAMATH, FOOTBALL LEGEND: We keep on praying. It's hard. It's so hard. We've got to believe in their wherewithal.
SAVIDGE: Sunday morning, the coast guard spotted their boat overturned. One life jacket was found in the water nearby, but there was no sign of the two teens.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He just confirmed, nobody's onboard.
SAVIDGE: According to the coast guard, the capsized boat was found far offshore, more than 70 miles from where the boys had started from.
(on camera): This is the fuel dock where the boys filled up before they headed off. It turns out they bought about $120 worth of fuel. The manager says they only had about $100, or just over. He said, that's OK. You can pay me the rest next time.
You can imagine how those words haunt him now.
(voice-over): Sunday night friends, neighbors, and strangers gathered in their hometown of Jupiter to pray for the pair's safe return. The boys' families are still hopeful, posting this flyer and telling people all along the Florida coast to look out for things like life jackets, a cooler, anything. Most of all, looking for a miracle.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SAVIDGE: And the families are continuing the very difficult, the very painful wait here and the important thing to remember here, Kate, is that it is not just the families who are hopeful. The coast guard as well says, hey, there is reason to be hopeful. It may be three days, but there is still good reason to be optimistic, at least keep those prayers and good thoughts coming their way. That's what they ask -- Kate.
BOLDUAN: They might as well, as long as they can stay hopeful.
Martin, thank you so much.
And even, Martin's piece, the coast guard even said four to five days someone could survive in those waters because the water is warm right now.
By midnight tonight, crews say they will have covered over 27,000 square miles. This is a complicated search, though.
[19:45:00] Crews are saying that the waves are making it difficult to spot the two teens. But that is not stopping what officials are calling an aggressive search still continuing at this hour.
OUTFRONT now to Tequesta Police Chief Christopher Elg. He's assisting the coast guard with the search.
Chief, thank you so much for coming in.
The search has been compared over and over again, I've heard it, to finding a needle in a haystack. At this hour, the search area is getting even larger.
How confident are you that you all are looking in the right area at this point?
CHIEF CHRISTOPHER ELG, TEQUESTA POLICE DEPARTMENT: Well, extremely confident. We've certainly been in touch with the United States Coast Guard on a regular basis and other agencies assisting, official Wildlife Commission. The United States Coast Guard does search and rescue and they have done this for a long time obviously, created a model and basically mapped out where they believe the boat and the boys could be found, the high probability area.
Obviously, yesterday afternoon, they found the boat, and we're confident with their assets on scene, we hope and certainly are praying that the two boys are found soon and brought home. BOLDUAN: We're hearing from everyone involved really that they're
still hopeful, still optimistic. What have you all found -- what was found on the boat or not, if you will, that suggests the teens are still alive, that gives you that hope?
ELG: Well, these boys certainly have grown up around water. Florida is surrounded by water. These boys and their families live on the water. They spent a lot of time -- they're experienced boaters and experienced as 14-year-olds can be.
They went out for a day of fishing, something they had done numerous times before. Obviously at this point, we're all at a loss to explain exactly what happened. The boat has been located. The coast guard and all of us are hopeful in following up every lead to bring them home safely.
We don't obviously know at this point what occurred. We hope very soon that we're going to know that when the boys are brought back.
BOLDUAN: First and foremost, finding those sweet faces and getting them back to their families and then we can all figure out exactly what happened.
Chief, thank you so much.
ELG: Thank you, Kate.
BOLDUAN: OUTFRONT next, a woman fights back against her attacker. Did she help police in doing that track down a serial killer?
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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I knew he was there to kill me. I could tell that he had already done something because he said that he was going to prison for a long time.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BOLDUAN: And on a much, much lighter note, Jeanne Moos and the case of one curious orangutan.
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[19:51:25] BOLDUAN: Police are investigating a possible serial killer tonight after a West Virginia woman killed him. The woman, a sex worker who goes by the name Heather says the minute she opened her door, a man identified as 45-year-old Neil Falls started beating her, then tried to choke her to death.
Now, investigators think Falls may be responsible for brutal murders really across the country.
Boris Sanchez has the story.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): A West Virginia woman says she narrowly escaped with her life after meeting 45-year-old Neil Falls.
HEATHER, KILLED NEAL FALLS: He was saying you are going to be quiet. I'm going to call the orders.
SANCHEZ: The woman known as Heather met Falls after he entered her escort add on backpage.com. She says he became aggressive within minutes, wrapping his hands around her throat.
HEATHER: He just wouldn't let me get any air. And when he laid the gun done to get the rake out of my hands, I shot him.
SANCHEZ: Moments later, she was running from her Charleston home, chasing down a neighbor who called 911.
911 CALLER: There's a lady in an alley here, and she's saying that some guy tried to rape her, and she had to defend herself.
911 CALLER: He opened the door and said, "Live or die". I wrestled him. He was going to kill me.
SANCHEZ: Investigators say Falls may be a serial killer after finding an arsenal of weapons described as a kill kit in his Subaru. He also had a list of ten women with names, ages and contact information, all of them escorts. At least nine of them in West Virginia. None appear to have met the suspect.
LT. STEVE COOPER, CHARLESTON POLICE DEPARTMENT: All those things together lead to us believe Mr. Falls has been involved in similar crimes.
SANCHEZ: Investigators are looking at falls' past and possible connections to cases in Nevada, Oregon and Illinois. Authorities tell CNN an item found in his car is believed to be linked to evidence discovered on several dismembered bodies in Las Vegas, back in 2005, where Falls lived at the time. Their remains found in trash bags, all of them escorts.
One of the cases under scrutiny Lindsay Marie Harris whose dismembered legs were recovered in Illinois three weeks after she went missing.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Very creepy, very kind of tight-lipped. Somebody who doesn't want to be exposed.
SANCHEZ: Falls' former landlord says she had him evicted a year after he moved in and describes his behavior as odd.
While sources tell CNN that no evidence has yet pointed to a direct link, Heather believes she stopped Falls from hurting others.
REPORTER: Do you feel like you possibly saved other women's lives?
HEATHER: I know I did.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SANCHEZ: CNN reached out to some one who claimed to be the sister of Neil Falls. She told us she wants nothing to do with her brother and told us the family would not be putting out a statement.
BOLDUAN: I cannot even believe the story. It's amazing how it all came about.
SANCHEZ: She is unbelievably lucky to have made a smooth, quick move when she did.
BOLDUAN: Unbelievable. And she was injured in the attack itself.
Boris, thanks so much. Amazing.
OUTFRONT next, Jeanne Moos with a sweet moment between an orangutan and an expectant mother.
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[19:58:11] BOLDUAN: So his keepers say Rajang the orangutan has always been quite the curious George and now, he's become an online star as well.
Here's Jeanne Moos.
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JEANNE MOOS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Consider this pose pregnant. Yes, this really is a orangutan at the Colchester's zoo in England kissing a pregnant woman's belly twice.
Before Jamie Clark the father started recording with his cell phone, the 47-year-old male orangutan named Rajang actually pointed at Maisie Knight's belly.
JAMIE CLARKE, FILMED ORANGUTAN KISSING MAISIE'S BELLY: Started rubbing her belly with his fingers like that.
MOOS: And then came the kiss, which Maisie describes as a nice feeling. It has gone viral.
MAISIE KNIGHT, ORANGUTAN KISSED HER BELLY: I just keep getting texts all over Facebook that my belly's famous.
MOOS: Jamie offered the orangutan his belly, but the ape wasn't interested, and shooed away his hand.
Pregnant women have repeatedly caught his eye. Posted one, "This is also how I found out I was pregnant. He kept kissing my tummy and pointing so I went home done a test which was positive."
And a mother posted her daughter's photo saying, "Rajang kept touching her pregnant stomach through the glass and didn't take his eyes off her baby bump. The zoo says when the staff was first issued shorts, Rajang became
fixated on legs and knees. He's also intrigued by cuts and bruises. So, if you go visit strip off those band-aids.
Maisie is expecting a boy any day.
You are not going to name him Rajang?
CLARKE: No.
MOOS: She may be expecting but she wasn't expecting this.
Jeanne Moos, CNN, New York.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BOLDUAN: So cute. Kind of, right? I mean, a little bit, yes, OK.
Thanks for joining us, everybody. Be sure to set your DVR to record OUTFRONT so you can watch us anytime.
"AC360" starts right now.
