Return to Transcripts main page

Erin Burnett Outfront

Sources: Evidence Shooter May Have Been Radicalized; Officials: Shooter Was in Touch With Terror Suspects; Gunman Traveled to Saudi Arabia; Police: Killers Had Bomb Lab in their Home. Aired 7-8:00p ET

Aired December 03, 2015 - 19:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[19:00:10] ERIN BURNETT, CNN ANCHOR: Good evening. I'm Erin Burnett. OUTFRONT tonight, the breaking news. Increasing evidence this evening that at least one of the San Bernardino shooters may have been radicalized. Law enforcement officials telling CNN tonight that Syed Rizwan Farook who along with his wife shot and killed 14 people at an office holiday party had travelled to Pakistan and Saudi Arabia. We are also learning tonight that Farook was in touch with people being investigated by the FBI for terrorism, communicating with them by phone and via social media. Now, this comes as police say Farook and his wife apparently were going to launch more attacks. They found at their home what police are now calling a bomb lab.

CBS News just obtaining these photos of some of the homemade bombs found there, including this one that would have been detonated with a remote control car. This, a bag full of possible pipe bombs. In this hour, we're going to take a closer look at the shooters. We're going to talk to their next door neighbor. She says they were a happy, seemingly normal pair. She had no idea that they were making bombs in the garage next door to her. And we're going to speak to a co-worker who sat next to Farook every day. He was in that office complex when Farook and his wife opened fire. So much breaking developments tonight.

We begin with Kyung Lah who is OUTFRONT in San Bernardino. And Kyung, you've been talking to Farook's co-workers and you were saying they even threw a baby shower not that long ago. Did they see any sign of a change?

KYUNG LAH, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: No signs. And that baby shower is an occasion that they were so friendly with one another that they wanted to celebrate the birth of his baby daughter. He was someone who they described, as being mild mannered, someone who didn't show any outward signs, not a man that they ever imagined at their holiday party would hatch a plan and try to kill them.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

(Sirens)

LAH (voice-over): Just minutes before the killers opened fire on the holiday party, Patrick Baccari left to use the bathroom when the attacks started.

PATRICK BACCARI, WORKED WITH SYED RIZWAN FAROOK: I thought somebody booby-trapped the towel dispenser because I was being pummeled as I was pulling the towel out of the dispenser. And so, I looked back at the mirror and I could see I was bleeding -- my nose.

LAH: Baccari hid in the Bathroom while Syed Rizwan Farook and his wife fired off 76 rounds killing 14 people. Farook and Baccari shared a cubicle for three years at the San Bernardino County Health Department. They talked about cars, Farook's six month old daughter, regular chat between two co-workers.

LAH (on camera): Why do you think he did this?

BACCARI: Well, I think his beliefs were contrary to our American dreams. You would think that somebody that's working to the capacity and education level that you are has similar respect, values.

LAH (voice-over): Law enforcement sources tells CNN that Farook apparently was radicalized and in touch with people being investigated by the FBI, talking by phone and on social media with more than one person being investigated for terrorism. But a law enforcement source says those talks were infrequent. The last one had been a few months ago, not raising any alarms. No red flags either, say U.S. and Saudi government officials when Farook went to Saudi Arabia. The FBI says, the 28-year-old had also traveled to Pakistan. The couple's landlord who rented the apartment they would later fill with weapons and bomb- making materials saw no sign this was coming.

DOYLE MILLER, SYED RIZWAN FAROOK'S LANDLORD: It's beyond my comprehension. Because they seemed like such a gentle, mild person. So I don't know. You just can't tell a book by its cover.

LAH: Farook's brother-in-law didn't know.

FARHAN KHAN, BROTHER-IN-LAW OF SYED RIZWAN FAROOK: I have no idea. Why would he do that? Why would he do something like this? I have absolutely no idea. I am in shock myself.

LAH: A sentiment echoed by Patrick Baccari.

BACCARI: Who wants to call their 16-year-old kid to tell them, they just survived the attack. There's many people that didn't.

LAH: Baccari says, the multiple bullet fragments in his body will stay, too risky to remove. What also remains, confusion, the man he so closely knew did this, now turning to anger and fear.

BACCARI: I believe every citizen here should be armed to defend themselves in case of this happening but that's not everybody else's belief. I couldn't have defended anybody from the position I was in, even if I was armed. But at least if they tried to come in and get us in that restroom, I would have had some way of protecting the rest of us.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LAH: Now, if there's any clue to violence in Farook's past, it is only seen in his parents' divorce records that filed with the court in 2008. And in those records, his mother says that her husband -- her ex-husband now that he was extremely violent, abusive, that he pushed her against the car, this is something that all the children witnessed, that he would threaten suicide, he even threw a television on her. She even filed a temporary restraining order, violence that seemed to elude Farook's life but as an adult, Erin, when he came to the IRC, the building behind me as police continue to comb through this, they still have so many questions about how someone who was so mild-mannered on the outside could have executed such a violent, violent act.

[19:05:40] BURNETT: Kyung Lah, thank you very much. And we are learning much more about his family. We're going to be talking about that in a moment. But I want to go now to Pamela Brown also in San Bernardino.

And Pam, you've been looking at the relationship between the shooters, between Farook and his wife. This is one of the most bizarre and important parts of the story. What have you learned?

PAMELA BROWN, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: That's right. We've learned, according to officials we've been speaking with that it's believed that Syed Farook met his wife in Saudi Arabia in the summer of 2014. Officials say, the last recorded trip he had there was during that summer. He was there for nine days. That is when they believe he met his wife. She then came back to the United States on a fiancee visa and obtained a green card and became a legal permanent resident from there. And frankly, that's all we've been able to learn about their relationship because investigators say these were two people who were not on their radar. These were people who weren't on watch lists, that they didn't have adduce (ph) on them. And so, they are trying to learn more about this relationship and how this was missed. We've learned that officials have been, the FBI has been interviewing their family members and we're told that they have been cooperating but in terms of a motive, that's still unclear at this hour -- Erin.

BURNETT: And Pamela, you know, not only are there so many questions about them, it's so unusual that they could have been so off the radar. We also know that it looks likely that they were actually preparing additional attacks. Is that right?

BROWN: That's right. In fact, we've learned that they had what appeared to be an ad hoc bomb lamb in the home. Farook's mother, there apparently were 12 explosive devices that were there inside that home, including 4500 rounds of ammunition and remote control cars that they believe they may have intended to use for the explosives. So, really a cache of weapons there and that's part of the reason Erin, that in addition to the fact that Syed Farook appeared to be in touch with FBI terrorism subjects, so they were not high-priority subjects. But all of these combined is leading authorities to investigate whether or not he could have been radicalized. But they're also looking at the possibility this could have just been a workplace dispute or perhaps a blend of both -- Erin.

BURNETT: All right. Thank you very much. Annie Larson lives next door to the shooters. Her home shares a back wall with theirs. Annie, you lived next door to them for about six months. What were they like?

ANNIE LARSON, SHOOTER'S NEIGHBORS: They just seemed like just regular neighbors, kind of kept to themselves, cordial and I would see a gentleman come home from work and we'd greet each other and say hi, smile, met his mother, I believe, and the woman that lived there. I didn't know their names.

BURNETT: You didn't know their names.

LARSON: At the time. But --

BURNETT: Yes. I know that, you know, obviously now, you know, you're thinking, gosh, you lived so close to them. Police found pipe bombs in the house.

LARSON: Right.

BURNETT: Thousands of rounds of ammunition. I mean, looking back now, Annie, do you see any clues of what was actually happening?

LARSON: In retrospect, there's always things that you can see. Of note lately, they just kept receiving multiple packages but it's Christmastime and that seemed pretty normal. I know he did work in his garage pretty regularly, sometimes the door opened, sometimes it was closed. So I didn't really think of any -- I didn't notice anything particularly out of the ordinary for the area in which I live.

BURNETT: What were they like as a couple? Did you notice anything there? Or just, you know, seeming to be very normal American couple?

LARSON: Yes. Normal. He was happy. I would see him smile. Kind of entering the house and -- we share backyard fences and can hear -- you can hear each other if you're in the back and could hear the baby that they have there making baby sounds and seemed happy and just normal, a normal life like you do with a little baby.

BURNETT: You have a baby yourself. I have a baby myself.

LARSON: Yes.

BURNETT: The fact that they had a baby here is one of the most impossible things to understand. I mean, you saw them. Did they seem excited about this new baby? Did you have any feelings or see Tashfeen interact with her child? What did you see?

[19:10:04] LARSON: Just seemed like they were regular moms and dads doing normal life. Nothing really stood out. Seemed happy to be together. So --

BURNETT: How do you now feel, Annie, that knowing that this was happening right next door to you? As you say, I mean, this was -- this was adjacent to your home. This was touching your home.

LARSON: I think the biggest feeling that as apparent probably in my face is sadness. Sadness for our community, sadness for the lives that have been lost. Sadness that glimmers of hope seems to keep dissipating in all the madness of the world. But there's always hope and hope will always prevail.

BURNETT: Annie, when was the last time you saw them?

LARSON: I think it was Sunday afternoon. I could see them through the fence. They just seemed happy. They were both kind of in and out of the house there on the patio.

BURNETT: They seemed totally normal.

LARSON: Totally normal. No idea.

BURNETT: Well, Annie, thank you very much for being with me.

LARSON: You're welcome. Best to you.

BURNETT: Art Roderick is a former assistant director for Investigations for the U.S. Marshals. And Art, you just heard Annie, she lived next door. I mean, literally their house is touched, she said she had no idea they had a bomb lab or an arsenal. I mean, it's frightening you know someone could do that. Could be building what they built. And their neighbors would have no idea. I mean, how easy it is to do this undetected?

ART RODERICK, FORMER ASSISTANT DIRECTOR FOR INVESTIGATIONS, U.S. MARSHALS: Well, I mean, I think we've heard this description of individuals before that have gone out and committed heinous crimes. Oh, they were a normal person. They were nice to me. They waved to me. I think you hit on it, Erin, the key part here is that six-month- old baby. I mean, how could they leave that six-month-old baby and commit a crime like this? And whether it's, you know, it hasn't been totally pinned down yet whether these was radicalized individual, whether they were directed by someone, whether this was workplace violence. But I can't see this being workplace violence when you have the tactics that they used, which we have seen used in other terrorist attacks around the world. And to leave that six-month-old child without any parents to, me, again, points another finger in the direction of being radicalized.

BURNETT: Yes. I mean, we just heard Annie say how normal they seemed, happy, normal, and normal with their baby. You know, how is that possible? The co-worker said that, too. Everybody has said that. No one has said there was any sign of radicalization.

RODERICK: Yes. I mean, they don't want to -- none of these people that become radicalized actually want to attract a lot of attention. Once you start attracting attention, you start attracting law enforcement or neighbors are going to start talking and the word will eventually get back to law enforcement. So, it just -- this is a bizarre set of circumstances from A to Z. This whole scenario, whether it's a hybrid, radicalization or workplace violence, this whole scenario is very bizarre and I think we're seeing something brand new here.

BURNETT: Certainly something brand new. Art is going to stay with me.

Next, the male shooter traveled to Saudi Arabia and Pakistan, communicated with terror suspects. Did U.S. intelligence missed multiple red flags?

Plus, the shooters, their home loaded with guns, ammo, bomb- making materials. What do we know about another imminent attack?

And new details on the massive manhunt that ended with a ferocious gun battle and two dead suspects?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:17:08] BURNETT: Growing questions tonight about whether the U.S. missed key warning signs about the shooters in the San Bernardino massacre. Law enforcement officials telling CNN tonight they believed Syed Rizwan Farook may have been radicalized and that he was communicating with more than one terror suspects who was on the FBI radar. Now, we also know this. Farook travelled to Saudi Arabia in 2013 or 2014, that is where he met the woman who became his wife and the partner in the shootings.

Justice reporter Evan Perez broke the news about Farook's possible radicalization. And Evan, what more can you tell us about his background?

EVAN PEREZ, CNN JUSTICE REPORTER: Well, Erin, one of the things that the FBI is doing is looking at those connections that you just spoke about. Right now we're told that the people he was in touch with, people who were subjects of FBI investigations really weren't high level people. They were people who were of interest to the FBI. They were not people who would cause the FBI to sort of say, we're going to go six degrees of separation to see everybody that that person is talking to. Nothing indicates that. And that's one reason why it may not necessarily be a case of missed signals. And simply may be that this person was so clean and tried to keep themselves so clean to avoid any scrutiny from law enforcement and absolutely worked in this case. One thing that we know that the FBI does in these cases is take a step back and say, should we have been watching for this person?

BURNETT: Right.

PEREZ: Is there anything that indicates that we should have?

BURNETT: And is there anything that indicates that, that he should have been on their radar? As simply became -- there's too many people and the people he talked to were at such a low level that no one could have expected them to be watching?

PEREZ: Right. Exactly. That's exactly right. There's way too many people. As you know, there are 900 investigations going on around the country. Every state.

BURNETT: Yes.

PEREZ: And that was one reason why it's really is a haystack and people like this will fall through.

BURNETT: All right. Evan Perez, thank you very much. And OUTFRONT now, I want to go to our CNN intelligence and security analyst, former CIA operative Bob Baer. Also, former assistant director for Investigations for the U.S. Marshals Art Roderick and retired FBI Profiler James Fitzgerald.

James, let me start with you. Do you have any doubt at this point that this was an act of terrorism and specifically Islamic terrorism?

JAMES FITZGERALD, FORMER FBI PROFILER: No doubt whatsoever. We have no indications that these people have reached out for workplace violence jihadist training camps or cells. So, but we do know that they've reached out for and they have actually visited, certainly with Farook himself other countries and it was very possible he was in fact in a training camp there. We certainly see through his tentacles that he's reached out for people on the list and that are well-known to the FBI. They may not have been big players yet but they are certainly on the score card and it's no doubt that he had some level of radicalization from these people and from the visits to these other countries.

BURNETT: So, Bob, we know that Farook himself travelled to Saudi Arabia, met his wife there. That was back in 2014, though. And we know he didn't return and immediately start, for example, doing anything obvious, like growing his beard. That happened later. There were no signs from anyone, from his neighbors, his co-workers, guy who sat next to him, people we've talked to here on this show, of him being radicalized. Do you think that that trip to Saudi Arabia was crucial to this attack or not?

ROBERT BAER, FORMER CIA OPERATIVE: Well, I can speculate at this point, Erin. But Saudi Arabia frankly is a mess. When this shooting started and the fact that he had gone to Saudi Arabia, he met his wife there, been to the Haji and the rest of it, people came back and said, look, Saudi Arabia is a recruiting ground for the Islamic State for al Qaeda. I mean, it doesn't mean that he was recruited there but he certainly would have heard arguments that you have to take the jihad to the United States.

BURNETT: Right.

BAER: I mean, that doesn't mean he was sent. I don't mean that at all. He just would have heard this, especially in Mecca. The Saudis are very upset about what is happening in Iraq and Syria. And he would have heard a lot of this and we don't know about his wife. Also, what was she doing in Saudi Arabia and the fact that they went there, they were looking for their roots and they found a purified form of Islam --

BURNETT: Uh-huh.

BAER: -- which leads to Jihad. And somehow they expected those roles if indeed that's what happens. And the more I see this, the more it looks that's indeed what happened. BURNETT: And we're going to be talking much more about her

specifically in a moment. But Art, I want to ask you another question about Farook himself. His childhood. We're learning it was troubled. Allegations his father beat his mother, she went to court for that. Also a report, his mother had set up an online dating profile for him several years ago, and in that it said, he enjoyed target practice in the backyard. These are things that seem to fit the profile of other horrific attacks, like even in the Newtown shootings. How important are these things?

RODERICK: Well, Erin, I think that the key part here is even in Newtown, there were some psychological issues going on here. We don't specifically though that about this individual yet. I think, you know, a lot of people grow up, unfortunately, in this country under that type of parenting and a lot of them don't go out and end up killing 14 people and wounding another 19. So, you know, as much as we hear about a horrible childhood he had, I don't think we should be putting our head on the fact that that's why he actually went out and did this.

[19:20:25] BURNETT: Right. And to your point --

RODERICK: If you look at the last --

BURNETT: Yes, to the point you're making --

RODERICK: Go ahead, Erin.

BURNETT: -- the gunman's older brother reportedly was a navy veteran. And when I say that I mean a very decorated veteran. He won several medals including one called the global war on terrorism service medal. I mean, that's -- these two brothers grew up in the same household. How significant is that revelation to you, Art?

RODERICK: I mean, that just goes more to my point that, you know, again, a lot of people grow up in these horrible situations but they turn out to be fine later on in life. I don't think this is something we can hang our head on. I think the key part of this whole thing is, okay, why do they go out and do this, were they radicalized, were they not radicalized. And I agree with Bob, I mean, to me, all of this points to radicalization because of the tactics in the type of hit that they did in this particular horrific incident.

BURNETT: And James, do you think that he should have been on the United States' radar? I mean, Evan is reporting they just have simply too many people to have someone like this on the radar. But, are they going to look back and say that this was a mistake or not?

FITZGERALD: Well, I'm still in touch with my colleagues in the FBI and they feel to some degree their hands are tied. They are doing the best they can. They realize there's all sorts of political and jurisdictional issues that have to be addressed here but there's a lot that probably could be done in a case such as this. And most likely should have been, whether it's a mistake or not, who knows. And I can say this, there's probably people out there right now, the FBI is watching. They may do nothing and there's unfortunately probably people they know nothing about who may strike next.

BURNETT: Thank you all very much. And we're going to talk much more about Farook's wife, the other shooter in a moment. And next, the shooter's planned a very quick strike and fast getaway. They had at home a bomb-making lab. The big question is, what was the next attack that they were planning? We have more information on that after this break.

And the family of one of the shooters speaks out. OUTFRONT, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:28:18] BURNETT: Breaking news, police revealing tonight that the married killers amass an astonishing amount of fire power. Thousands of rounds of ammunition, high-capacity magazines were found in their home along with what authorities are calling a bomb lab. I want to show you this. CBS News just obtaining photos of the some of the homemade bombs found here. This is a bag of possible pipe bombs. This is a bomb that they intended to detonate via that car, remote control car that they were going to detonate at the scene of the attack.

Kyung Lah is OUTFRONT live in San Bernardino. And Kyung, on this issue specifically, these pictures are chilling that they truly did have a bomb lab. What more are you learning about it tonight?

LAH: Well, the home -- you use the word astonishing, that they had this incredible arsenal inside the home and certainly helps us understand why the police were being so cautious about entering their home. Remember, the process was extremely long. They used robots to go in. They had a reason. Look at this list that we've obtained from the police about what they found inside this home. Twelve pipe bomb- type devices, bomb materials and tools, 2,009 millimeter rounds. Twenty five hundreds. Two twenty three caliber rounds and several hundred long-rifle rounds.

That's simply what police found inside the home and then after that shootout between the SUV, the two gunmen inside the SUV and law enforcement, then when they approach and they saw the two bodies, here's what they found on the killers themselves. More than 1400 .223 caliber rounds and more than 209 millimeter rounds. So, Erin, when you start to hear law enforcements talking about not just was there planning for this attack, but when you look at what they found, that's why some law enforcement experts are saying that they wonder if this was simply just one attack or if there might be something further down the line.

BURNETT: Hmm. Kyung Lah, thank you.

And OUTFRONT now, retired FBI profiler Jim Clemente, and Bobby Chacon, former FBI special agent back with me tonight.

Bobby, let me start with you. We know Syed Rizwan Farook may have been radicalized but what about his wife? When police announced that there were two shooters and one of them was a female, pretty much everyone for a moment their jaws dropped. How do you explain her role in this?

BOBBY CHACON, FORMER FBI SPECIAL AGENT: Well, it's hard to explain currently. I'm sure the investigators are looking into her background. It's going to be a little more difficult to determine her role because she lived overseas until recently. It could be that she was the catalyst for the end of game radicalization on his part. He was radicalized over the internet. They could have -- obviously he was in contact with people over there. They could have been tracking his level of radicalization and insert her into his scenario towards the end game to be kind of a catalyst to set him in motion.

BURNETT: And, Jim, let me ask you, though, in terms of her role, I mean, you know, obviously, he went to Saudi Arabia. That's when he met her. I mean, she's obviously crucial to this story in every way. But she had a job in Saudi Arabia. She was a pharmacist.

You know, having done reporting there, I mean, this is a country that has the lowest rate of female engagement in the country than any other country in the world. Her having had a job, at least at the surface level, she would appear far from radicalized.

JIM CLEMENTE, FORMER FBI PROFILER: Well, I think she was obviously intelligent. She had a job because she rose to the top of the workforce, the female workforce. But I think this really good -- I agree with Bobby, this could really be a case of romantic radicalization. In other words, he was actually targeted by the people who wanted to convert him or push him into radicalization and they pushed this woman towards him so that she could push him over the edge and actually complete the job.

BURNETT: So it's interesting --

CLEMENTE: It's also possible he went there with the specific intent to find a woman like that.

BURNETT: Right. So it could go either way. The crucial part about her role, I mean, they had a new baby, a 6-month new baby. We just heard, you know, the guy who sat next to him told our Kyung Lah that they had a baby shower for him, and she's the mother of a 6- month-old. It's unnatural for her to do what she did.

I mean, what could explain that, to leave a new baby, drop it off with someone else in the morning and then go, knowing that you would at the least never see that baby again?

CLEMENTE: Well, I think it does -- it is very unnatural and it's something that would have taken a tremendous amount of effort to do on her part. That means that the level of her commitment to this cause had to be extremely high. And that's why I believe that she was already radicalized and he, in turn, her. Also, the fact that she was able to act calmly in this tactical assault and the shootout with the police. That's the kind of thing that only comes with practice and massive preparation.

So, she was definitely trained and prepared for this kind of event. I think they were going out in a hail of bullets either way. And that was their plan.

BURNETT: Bobby, how much training do you think she had? To emphasize, when he went and did the attack, when they drove away, he was the one, we understand from what officials have said, who was driving. She was in the back seat with an AR-15 engaged in a firefight with the police. She was. Tashfeen Malik was the one actually in the firefight.

CHACON: Yes, she clearly had advanced training and clearly lots of it. It's going to be harder to determine that because she was living overseas but my former colleague sent immediate leads last night overseas to all of our FBI (INAUDIBLE) in area to determine her background, her connections.

They are currently working very hard to develop a profile of her and to see what training she had, not only for this particular case, but, you know, whether she had friends or sisters or people, a common cause with her who have come over on these fiancee visas. And they're currently here. I'm sure they are tracking that data.

BURNETT: Jim, I mean, obviously, her involvement is a game changer in how law enforcement will look at this. Could there be something else, anything else that could have explained her involvement, something like a postpartum psychosis?

CLEMENTE: Well, postpartum psychosis, in the occasions that I've seen of it really is typically internal. I mean, the violence goes internally or within the family, the kids are most likely going to be the targets of that or the person suffering from it.

[19:35:05] So, I don't see this as a common case of postpartum psychosis. This is something much more related to extremism.

BURNETT: All right. Thank you both very much.

And OUTFRONT next, Farook's family members said they were as shocked as anyone by the deadly shootings. That's next.

And, it was like something out of a horrific movie -- heavily armed police battling a husband and wife in a full on firefight. Our report, ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BURNETT: Breaking news: the search is on for motive behind the deadliest mass shooting in America since Newtown. The FBI speaking out to the Syed Rizwan Farook's co-workers in San Bernardino. They're also said he was talking to terror suspects around the globe.

The massacre, of course, playing out on live television, 14 people dying. Tonight, new details about the attack.

Poppy Harlow is OUTFRONT.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

(GUNFIRE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You have a shooter in that car.

POPPY HARLOW, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Police zero in on Syed Farook and his wife Tashfeen Malik who just hours before had brutally shot and killed 14 people at an office event.

[19:40:07] Acting on a tip, officers head to a house in a town of Redlands, just ten miles from the scene of the mass shooting. A black Ford SUV drove by slowly at first and then sped away.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We are in pursuit of the suspect vehicle eastbound on San Bernardino Avenue and Richardson. We've got shots fired out the back window.

HARLOW: One shooter fires at police in hot pursuit. The chase headed back to San Bernardino. All of it playing out on live television.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We have units in San Bernardino and Richardson are taking fire.

HARLOW: The SUV comes to a stop and a full-scale gun battle breaks out.

(GUNFIRE)

HARLOW: The shooters firing 76 rounds, at least 21 officers return fire, nearly 400 rounds riddled the SUV.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: East San Bernardino, multiple shots fired! We need a bearcat. We need medical.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Right now we have one down outside the car and one down inside the car.

HARLOW: Rizwan Farook gets out of the car but he doesn't get far. His body lying in a pool of blood just across the street. Malik, her 6-month-old daughter at home with the grandma, dies in the car.

As darkness falls, a robot enters the shooters' home. Found inside, thousands of rounds of ammunition, 12 pipe bombs and what investigators call a bomb lab. With hundreds of tools that could be used to make explosives.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HARLOW: And Erin, the big question that remains tonight, when did the switch flip? What motivated this young couple in their 20s to carry out mass murder?

The man who rented them that townhouse said that they were "timid", that's a quote, and said that there was no cause for concern and then this, a mass murder situation. Tonight, we still have FBI at the home. They're going through

that homemade bomb lab, seeing if it will lead them to any clues as to why this happened, was it the radicalization that sparked this. What tells them about what sparked all of this tonight -- Erin.

BURNETT: Poppy, thank you very much.

Bobby Chacon is back with me.

And, Bobby, when you look at Poppy's report, all that video, the massive law enforcement. I mean, massive and so fast, what sticks out to you?

CHACON: Well, this is the new normal for us on the law enforcement side of it. We train with these people all the time at the state, local and federal levels. We train for these scenarios, both on the response aspects, the forensic aspects, the intelligence aspects and the investigative aspects. And we will continue to be partners side by side with all of our federal, state and local partners when these incidents occur and ongoing.

BURENTT: And I guess the bottom line is, did they do everything they need to do? They didn't know anything about who this was and within a couple of hours they did kill both suspects.

CHACON: Yes. And I think that's the merging of the intelligence community with the law enforcement community at the federal level and things like a Joint Regional Intelligence Center, JRIC, where we have our local and state partners with us side by side always 24/7 working these cases.

BURNETT: All right. Bobby, thank you very much.

And next, the shooter's brother-in-law speaking out. Tonight, a man he knew and why he can't believe what he's done. That's OUTFRONT, next.

And Sanjay Gupta with his exclusive interview with the first responder to the horrific shooting scene.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:47:42] BURNETT: Tonight, breaking news, pictures of the bombs. CBS News obtaining photos of the bombs the shooters tried to use. One of them you see here showing a bag of pipe bombs and this one a bag that was at the scene of the attack that was supposed to be detonated using a remote controlled car.

Officials telling CNN Syed Farook may have been radicalized. His brother-in-law speaking out about the attacks.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

FARHAN KHAN, BROTHER-IN-LAW OF SYED FAROOK: I'm very sad that people lost their lives and there's victims out there. I wish speedy recovery to them. And, again, I'm in shock that something like this could happen.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BURNETT: OUTFRONT now, a leader in the Los Angeles Muslim community, Hussam Ayloush was the executive director of the Council on American-Islamic Relations in Los Angeles.

Hussam, thank you very much for being with me.

You've met with Farook's family. You appeared at a press conference with them. What are they saying to you?

HUSSAM AYLOUSH, EXEC. DIRECTOR, COUNCIL ON AMERICAN-ISLAMIC RELATIONS, L.A. CHAPTER: Like all Americans, they are just distraught, they are devastated with the fact that one of their relatives could do that. I mean, the family -- the spokesperson for the family, Mr. Farhan Khan, expressed and conveyed the genuine sentiment of sorrow, of sadness that his brother-in-law could commit such a crime.

They, of course, express solidarity, like the rest of American Muslims and the rest of all Americans, they stand in solidarity and offer their heartfelt condolences to the families and the loved ones of the injured and the killed as a result of that hateful, horrific crime.

BURNETT: Hussam, you're going to be speaking at Farook's old mosque tomorrow. What are you going to say?

AYLOUSH: Of course, I'm going to be there to convey the message that everyone in the community feels this is a crime that is absolutely no justification for such behavior, for such act. Regardless of the motives which are might not be clear to us, this is a time of solidarity, of resilience.

We're not alone. This is not about Muslims mourning alone. Yes, it's our time on Friday but this is a time where nationally, as a nation, we're mourning for such crimes, whether it's in San Bernardino or whether it's in Colorado Springs or anywhere else.

[19:50:00] BURNETT: Hussam, CNN is reporting that Farook may have been radicalized.

President Obama said after the Paris attacks that leaders in the Muslim community are not doing enough to stop terrorism. And I'll quote him, in part. He said, quote, "There are some who say, well, we don't believe in violence but are not as willing to challenge some of the extremist thoughts."

Do you feel that he's talking to you, that you need to do more than condemn an act like this as a leader in the Muslim community?

AYLOUSH: Well, that's -- I mean, we have to put things in perspective. I mean, there are 1 .6 billion Muslims in the world. Those who commit such horrendous acts are really a tiny, tiny small minority. No more in percentage than those who commit attacks on the Planned Parenthood centers and places who definitely do not represent Christianity.

Let's put things in perspective. These are political not religious conflicts, the result of instability in Syria, instability in Iraq, instability and dictatorships in part of the Middle East, this is not a Muslim problem. This is a problem for the world and it needs us united, not singling out the victims. Most of the victims of terrorism continue to be Muslims.

So, this is a time when we need to stand in solidarity together, address the root causes of terrorism as we need to, in the Middle East, by making sure we support democracy, freedom in that part of the world against attacks, you know, from Russia, from ISIS and others. But at this time, time to mourn with the victims, it's time to offer our condolences and certainly make sure that our voices, not just as Muslims, as a community of multiple faiths, we speak against injustice.

BURNETT: Thanks very much to you, Hussam.

And OUTFRONT next, as hundreds ran for safety, first responders ran to the danger. Our Sanjay Gupta has an exclusive interview with one of those heroes.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:56:25] BURNETT: Breaking news, we now know the identities of the 14 people gunned down yesterday in San Bernardino. The victims, six women and eight men were between the ages of 26 and 60. Among the dead, Michael Wetzel, a father of six.

In a statement, his wife said Michael was the most amazing person that she has ever met. And as hundreds of terrified people fled the scene of the attack yesterday, first responders ran as they always do towards the danger.

And our chief medical correspondent Dr. Sanjay Gupta is OUTFRONT now. He spoke with some of those brave people.

And, Sanjay, you spoke to an ER doctor, who's one of the first to arrive on the scene, what did he tell you?

SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, you know, he got there before the SWAT teams did, so he was seeing some other people within that building starting to bring the injured out, you know. What we're hearing, Erin, is a lot of times these doctors have to get into these situations quickly and they often times will take care of patients on the scene there. They just don't have time sometimes to transport them back to the hospital. So he was taking care of some of the injured there in the field on the scene.

And, you know, as you might imagine, Erin, some of the injuries were pretty awful. This was somebody who had spent time in various wars and he was likening it to some of the battling he seen in the past.

BURNETT: And you also learned something very surprising about one of the doctors you met.

GUPTA: Yes, you know, it's interesting, you know, the whole culture in some ways is changed because these doctors often times have to go into these scenes that are still active. They are still dangerous. At the time they are trying to save other people's lives, they themselves may be putting their lives at risk and they are trying to figure out how to do both roles.

Dr. Michael Neuki is one of the guys who does that. This is how he put it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. MICHAEL NEUKI, ARROWHEAD REGIONAL MEDICAL CENTER: I should be able to defend myself when it's necessary and also have the capabilities to deal with the wounded in the field.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GUPTA: So, you know, they literally in addition to stethoscope and medical equipment, Erin, what I'm describing is more common. But in addition to taking medical equipment, he's also carrying a handgun. He's carrying an assault rifle himself. He is someone who is trained. He goes and trains with the SWAT team. He's a member of the SWAT team in this area and he learns how to be able to defend himself and protect his patients in the field.

So, it's a hybrid role that's emerging I think in many ways as a result of the times in which we live, Erin. He's part soldier. He's part doctor. And he often times does both at the same time.

BURNETT: All right. Sanjay, thank you very much.

That's just pretty stunning, doctors carrying assault rifles. A lot of people questioning how that happens in this nation.

President Obama lighting the national Christmas tree tonight. It's a White House tradition. It's usually a very happy event but obviously tonight anything but. The president took a moment to reach out to those who lost a loved one in the San Bernardino shooting.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Their loss is our loss, too for we're all one American family. We look out for each other in good times and in bad, and they should know that all of us care about them this holiday season. They are in our thoughts, they are in our prayers, and we send them our love.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BURNETT: Something for everyone to think about, the president at the tree lighting ceremony tonight.

Thank you for joining us. Be sure to set your DVR. You can record OUTFRONT and watch the program at any time. Our breaking coverage of the San Bernardino massacre continues

right now with "AC360."