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Erin Burnett Outfront
FBI: Couple Radicalized For Quite Some Time; Attorney: Killer's Mother Unaware of Plot to Kill; Trump: Ban All Muslims From Entering U.S. Aired 7-8:00p ET
Aired December 07, 2015 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[19:00:10] ERIN BURNETT, CNN ANCHOR: OUTFRONT next, breaking news. San Bernardino's husband and wife killer, officials are now saying, both were radicalized for quote, "quite some time." The family attorney my guest tonight.
Plus, much more on Donald Trump's new plan. A ban on all Muslims entering the United States, is this too far? Trump's spokeswoman our guest.
And an OUTFRONT exclusive, a stunning new report showing the number of foreigners joining the fight for ISIS more than doubling. That's an OUTFRONT exclusive, let's go OUTFRONT.
And good evening. I'm Erin Burnett. OUTFRONT tonight, we begin with breaking news. New evidence tonight that the San Bernardino killers were radicalized for some time. That is according to the FBI. Which tonight is also revealing that a bigger plot to kill may have been in the works. Also new tonight, we are learning that an additional 19 pipes which could easily have been turned into bombs were found in the apartment belonging to Syed Rizwan Farook and his wife, Tashfeen Malik. And we are learning that the couple practiced their shooting skills at a firing range and in fact went there practicing together just days before that massacre.
Also tonight, we have a new photo of the killers. This is when they came into the United States in July of 2014 from Saudi Arabia. Malik and Farook are going through customs, this is at O'Hare International Airport in Chicago when they came back from Saudi Arabia. In a moment I'm going to speak exclusively to the attorney representing Farook's family.
But first Kyung Lah is OUTFRONT and Kyung, I know we're learning a lot more today about the shooters.
KYUNG LAH, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Much more, especially through the FBI revealing some key things in this news conference. That there was extreme planning. That there was practice by these two. But also the radicalization that they were equally radicalized, it had happened for some time and all of this happening undetected.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
LAH (voice-over): Investigators now say they were a couple equally united by marriage and their desire to unleash terror. The wife, Pakistani native, Tashfeen Malik, and her American born and raised husband, Syed Rizwan Farook.
DAVID BOWDICH, FBI ASSISTANT DIRECTOR IN CHARGE: As the investigation has progressed, we have learned and believe that both subjects were radicalized and had been for quite some time.
LAH: What we don't know yet is how or exactly when. The FBI says, the couple secretly planning Jihad in their garage, finding 19 pipe bombs that could have been used in a larger attack. And just days before the massacre the couple testing their guns with target practice at a gun range in the area. Seeking answers about 29-year- old Tashfeen Malik, Pakistani intelligence officials raided her childhood home in the southern city of Miltan. She spent her early years in Pakistan, was raised in Saudi Arabia. Then returned to Pakistan for college. Miltan, an area rife with poverty and religious extremism. We spoke with a journalist Zahid Gishkori who grew up near Malik and has been speaking with her family is.
ZAHID GISHKORI, JOURNALIST: There is a tendency for sure of extremism in this area. Her university life is very important. Very, very important up. From 2007 to 2012, it's a key point. Here you witness the change.
LAH: A change says Gishkori to more conservative views of Islam. Her teachers tell CNN they didn't see it. One instructor only vaguely remembered her as a good pharmacy student.
DR. SYED NISAR HUSSEIN, TAUGHT TASHKEEN MALIK: She always remained busy in studies. And I don't think she was more religious or like that. The majority of our children they are -- with the veil and a burqa. And this is not unusual behavior.
LAH: Twenty eight-year-old Farook say friends was always devout, coming to pray at the mosque more than once a day. He never talked politics. He had a good paying job and a family. He shared pictures of his newborn daughter at the mosque.
GASSER SHEHATA, KNEW SYED RIZWAN FAROOK: Even afterward when he had the baby, he was very excited and very happy and he told us that he was planning on doing his masters. So that's why it's very, very surprising.
LAH: A double life say those who prayed with him. Encouraged they believe by online radicals.
NIZAAM ALI, KNEW SYED RIZWAN FAROOK: I can't go and look at a person's IP address and see the web history or his emails and see what he's doing, who he is talking to. But we know that this counterterrorist experts, they have the opportunity.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
LAH: And what is scary and frightening to those who knew him at the mosque is that they have known before what the profile might be. Perhaps a young man, someone who didn't have a job, might be spouting politics very, very loudly. In this case that didn't exist. This is a guy who had a good job, had family, a newborn. That's what they say is so frightening about this -- Erin.
[19:05:14] BURNETT: So frightening and so hard for anyone to understand. Kyung Lah, thank you.
And OUTFRONT now, one of the attorneys for Farook's family, David Chesley. David, thanks so much for being with me. The FBI is saying today that Farook and his wife had been radicalized in their words for some time. Can you define those words in quotes for some time?
DAVID CHESLEY, ATTORNEY FOR THE FAROOK FAMILY: Well, I really can't speak about the facts of the case right now as it's still coming out. I would like to make a preliminary statement on behalf of the family. And I know that they really wanted me to say that they are devastated and deeply saddened by this event as we all are and their thoughts and prayers are going out to the victims.
BURNETT: All right. On Friday, I know you had said, there wasn't enough evidence at the time to convince you that this was an act of terror. The president of the United States obviously said it's clear that these two individuals had gone down a dark path of radicalization in his words. The FBI found 5,200 rounds of ammunition in that apartment. The materials for pipe bombs. Are you comfortable calling this terror now?
CHESLEY: Um, with regard to Syed and Tashfeen, no one is denying the statements that are being made by FBI and law enforcement. Also I would like to say that we're acting in full cooperation with law enforcement.
BURNETT: The FBI is looking into it at this point. They acknowledge that they're investigating reports that Tashfeen Malik, Farook's wife may have radicalized him. Does the family think that's a possibility, that that is likely, that she was the one who radicalized him and she is the one who led this attack?
CHESLEY: Like we've said many times before, Syed and Tashfeen, they were very isolated. And honestly the family was completely surprised and devastated and have been crying for the past, you know -- since Wednesday. Since the time of the incident and praying about the event. But no one had any knowledge. If anybody would have, they definitely would have done something to stop it. Unfortunately, that didn't exist in this case. It was a complete shock and everyone was confused and surprised that this took place. Everyone in the family.
BURNETT: So, when you talk about that and how they've been crying and praying, look, yours is aware that there are a lot of people out there who question that. They say, how could this family not have known? For example, his mother. Farook's father in an interview with an Italian newspaper called his son a mama's boy. Said his mother was just as religious as her son. She was living in Farook's apartment. She was interviewed by authorities as you just said for seven hours. People look at all those thing, living in that small apartment, with the pipe bombs and the ammunition. How could she not have known?
CHESLEY: Well, I mean, we have said many times before that this -- she stayed in an isolated part of the house. And she was completely separated from them and no one really went in to the garage where this supposedly took place or allegedly took place. And so, you know, she's actually come out and given all the facts that she knows for seven hours now to FBI. So, she's told what she can.
BURNETT: Do you think they believe her?
CHESLEY: I can't speak for the FBI.
BURNETT: You talk about the mother, Farook's mother and how she never went into the garage, how she was separate from them in what seemed to be a pretty small space. But she would have known them better than anyone else from the family, because she was living with them, taking care of a newborn. What was her impression of Tashfeen Malik as a mother, her connection with the baby, of Farook as a father and his connection with that baby?
CHESLEY: Again, I would say they're a normal family. I mean, I've been with the family over the past week and it is amazing. I mean, just the completely normal family. I mean, there's nothing unusual. Just, you know, the family does everything that every normal American family does, be it black, white or anything else. You know, the children are playing with toys. They're watching television. They're sharing meals together. They're enjoying their life. They're enjoying living the American dream and that's basically what they were doing.
BURNETT: Farook's father also told that Italian newspaper though that his son said, he shared the ideology of the ISIS leader al Baghdadi to create an Islamic State, the father said his son was fixated on Israel. Did his father really know all these things about him and not say anything? I mean, it would seem at face value here if your son is saying, I share the same ideology of ISIS and al Baghdadi and he's becoming more religious that you would say something, right?
[19:10:26] CHESLEY: Well, essentially I'm sure everyone would say -- would have said something. We have all been contesting those statements that apparently came out in some obscure Italian newspaper. It's -- I mean, it's really troubling. He's on about four or five different medications right now and he says that he's not made -- he never recalls having made those statements. So --
BURNETT: Oh, okay.
CHESLEY: Those are really doubtful at best at this time.
BURNETT: OK. So you're saying, that's not true?
CHESLEY: He's -- I mean, he's never said that, you know? I spoke to him personally yesterday and he said he didn't recall saying it. So I mean, the investigation is ongoing. But that's from his -- you know, from what he's told me he didn't recall saying any of that.
BURNETT: And what is the reaction of Farook's brother? I mean, his brother is a decorated navy veteran, he has won medals -- two medals related to the global war on terror. What's his reaction been to this?
CHESLEY: Oh, he's very saddened by what's taken place. He's upset. That this could be in any way someone, you know, his brother, you know? He's praying for the victims. He's just totally depressed and filled with grief really.
BURNETT: David, just tonight Donald Trump says he wants to ban all Muslims from entering the United States. That would include tourists. He's very specific, all Muslims banned from entering the United States until the nation's leaders can quote, "figure out what is going on." What's your response to that?
CHESLEY: It's really sad that that sort of discrimination against religion would take place. As we have said many times before, there's a danger in incidents like this that people could start -- that people could start to try to deteriorate our rights under the constitution. It definitely -- first off, our freedom of religion, freedom of association, you know, our rights to privacy, you know shouldn't be infringed upon. You know, why should all members of the religion of Islam be castigated by some insane act by one lone, you know, individual.
BURNETT: David, thank you very much. I appreciate your time tonight.
CHESLEY: OK, thank you.
BURNETT: Now OUTFRONT next, both shooters were radicalized. So, this big question is still whether the wife brainwash the husband or was the other way around? More on that. And what we know about their relationship, new details tonight.
Plus, Donald Trump calling for that ban on all Muslims from entering in the -- from entering the United States. He is live in our hour tonight.
And moments before the San Bernardino massacre, was there a heated argument between one of the shooters and the victim over the holocaust? Well, that victim's family is OUTFRONT exclusively tonight.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:16:42] BURNETT: Breaking news tonight, the FBI revealing that the San Bernardino killers had been radicalized for quite some time. Officials have questioned Syed Farook's mother. Now, she lived with the couple. She says, she was blindsided by the attack, her attorney just telling me moments ago that she never went into the garage. For example, where they were assembling some of these pipe bombs.
Anna Cabrera is OUTFRONT.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ANA CABRERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Investigators had interviewed more than 400 people including family members. Among them, Syed Rizwan Farook's mother who lived with the couple and was detained for almost seven hours by authorities before being released. His father Syed Farook also questioned by police. Spoke briefly with reporters at his home in Corona, California, indicating he didn't agree with some of his son's beliefs.
SYED FAROOK, SR., FATHER OF SYED RIZWAN FAROOK: All Pakistanis coming from the major cities are liberal people. And he was going towards conservation --
CABRERA (on camera): He was going towards what?
FAROOK: Conservation. His views were conservative. Mine's liberal.
CABRERA (voice-over): He was more specific in the interview with an Italian newspaper La Stampa. Syed Farook admitted his son talked about terrorism and ISIS. Saying, quote, "And who does not talk about it these days? He said he shared the ideology of Al Baghdadi to create an Islamic State and he was fixated on Israel." When asked if he had contact with terrorists abroad, Farook said, "I do not know, but these days who can say with the internet and all this technology?" The digital footprint could be key, but tracking that is proven difficult with the couple's computer hard drive missing and cell phones apparently destroyed. Other clues could come from Farook's family past. Syed Rizwan Farook's mother made allegations of abuse.
His parents were divorced in 2008 and months earlier Rafia Farook filed for a restraining order accusing her husband of domestic violence. And one incident she alleges, "He was drunk and was outside my house and he pushed me towards my car and then choked me." When asked about those allegations, Farook told La Stampa, those are all lies. Rizwan was the mama's boy. And she is very religious like him. Syed Rizwan Farook's mother lived with her son and Malik in the home where authorities found 19 pipes that could have been assembled makeshift bombs and thousands of rounds of ammunition. The family's lawyer said, she has been cooperating and had no idea her son was an extremist.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CABRERA: Of course, we can't forget the couple's six-month-old baby, whose future is still uncertain. We have learned that Farook's sister Saira Khan has now said she wants to adopt the child. She was seen at the county courthouse today, presumably beginning those adoption proceedings. I can tell you today was the first day that county offices have reopened since this horrific attack and you can see behind me they're setting up for a vigil tonight. That's supposed to happen within the next hour or so honoring the 14 victims who lost their lives -- Erin.
BURNETT: Thank you very much. And I do want to mention that the attorney obviously just telling us moments ago that the father denies saying that his son was supporting ISIS and al Baghdadi. And he says, the father denies he ever said that to the Italian newspaper. So, obviously a lot of lack of clarity there. OUTFRONT now, former CIA counterterror official Phil Mudd and
former FBI Special Agent Bobby Chacon. Phil, this story gets more and more bizarre.
PHIL MUDD, FORMER CIA COUNTERTERRORISM OFFICIAL: I've not seen anything like this. We were talking about the story for example, the mom saying she doesn't know anything. I would say, hold on a second, I don't buy this for a heartbeat. The difference between the question of whether you knew a couple was going to commit an act of terror or whether you knew a couple with whom you lived had behavioral changes. More isolated from the community. More isolated from their friends and family. We had the family talking about the fact that they didn't know the wife very well.
I don't think the right question is whether she knew that the -- that the children in her -- her son and her wife were going to commit an act of terror. I think the right question is, did you see behavior that suggested that their lives were changing and for any family across America, whether it's your kid involved in drugs or whether it's your son getting married and involved in isolation from the community and talking about ISIS, the question is not, do you know what you're doing? The question is, is there a behavioral change -- Erin.
BURNETT: And that you think the answer obviously would have been yes. That there would have been.
MUDD: Yes. Yes.
[19:21:04] BURNETT: Bobby, I mean, they're also talking about who radicalized whom. Right. This is a crucial part of the question. Was it she that radicalized him or was it the other way around? Today, a producer here at CNN actually was in Pakistan, went to the university where Tashfeen Malik the woman studied. This is it. This is where she went to school. She studied pharmacy. And as you can see, the women pretty much all of them are veiled. Some not fully, but all of them to one extent or the other.
There you see one woman perhaps not, that looks like she's taking it off as she walks out. This campus though has also been investigated for extremist views. There has been concern about that. So, as you look at this. And I know we don't have all the information, but do you think her radicalization really started then or do you think that she was very religious and that the radicalization aspect happened here in the U.S.?
BOBBY CHACON, FORMER FBI SPECIAL AGENT: Oh, no, I don't think it happened here in the U.S. I certainly think it happened at -- it started long ago over there in Pakistan and I do believe and it's been my feeling from early on that she was probably a catalyst to his further radicalization. That he was radicalizing -- self-radicalizing on the internet probably to some extent and that she was a catalyst in his -- in the final phases of his accelerated radicalization towards the -- as they got closer to the time of the attack.
BURNETT: So the question is though, the simplest explanation is often the right one. The complicated explanation would be that she tried to find a man who was already isolated because she wanted to get into the United States and eventually plan a terror attack like this one. That's the more complicated explanation. The simpler one is radicalized are on the path, comes to the United States, meets him and together this plot hatches.
MUDD: Well, that's right. Let's go simple and not complicated. What I have seen in case after case, think as much about the emotional contact between the co-conspirators, as about issues about who radicalized whom, what's the religious aspect. What I'm saying is, when you're in an emotional relationship, father/son, brother/brother, sister/sister, in this case, husband/wife, you're about to take a step that involves the commission of an act of murder. You're saying and how saying, I think I'm unhappy about American policy on Israel. I think what's happening with ISIS is okay. You're playing off each other, a person you trust over the course of years to say, maybe because we're frustrated about what we witness, we should take an act that includes the murder of others -- the emotional contact, this is important as who radicalized whom.
BURNETT: And Bobby, do you think that the United States missed anything? I mean, is it possible that this could have been stopped? At least from the signs we understand at this point, yes, they were radicalized, but to jump from that to an act of mass terror that is a jump. And it's unclear that there was a sign missed.
CHACON: Yes, I don't think -- I think it's too early to tell whether there was a sign missed. I don't -- I certainly don't think that there's any indication of that yet. And I certainly think that an act like this taken by two people who really didn't have a large network here in the U.S., there may be some individuals that were seen coming and going in that house in the weeks or months before that the FBI is now tracking down. Sure, but these people were acting in concert, not in a larger context of a larger network as it seems on the surface right now. So I think that, yes, sure I think that there were signs but I don't know that any huge red flags were missed at this point in time.
BURNETT: All right. Well, both of you, thank you very much.
MUDD: Thank you.
BURNETT: And OUTFRONT next, Donald Trump calling for a ban on all Muslims coming to the United States. Even as tourists. Even if you come from, let's just say the United Kingdom. This just 12 weeks after telling CNN, he quotes, "Love the Muslims."
Plus, an OUTFRONT exclusive, in the 18 months since Obama referred to ISIS, as the jayvee team, the number of foreigners attempting to join ISIS has more than doubled. That's an OUTFRONT exclusive, coming up.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:28:55] BURNETT: Breaking news, Donald Trump live as you can see right next to me on the screen. He's in Mount Pleasant, South Carolina. Listen for a moment here.
DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: So, we asked the press to report that it was a total lie, and they don't want to do that because it's not -- it's not the thing to do. We get the biggest crowds. They don't want to show this crowd tonight. They're not going to show all the people outside trying to get in. They don't do that. They have the cameras right in my face. I say fan the crowd. Just to show. Look at all the people over there. It's a record in the history of the ship.
(CHEERS AND APPLAUSE)
But they don't show it. They don't show it. No, no. And I say fan it, I say fan it and they never ever fan it. I say fan the crowd. They never fan it. And yet, I guarantee you that young woman that just got taken out after interrupting us three times, I guarantee the cameras will be on her. I guarantee. It's disgusting. It's disgusting. So we talk about the media, and by the way, some of the media is terrific. But most of it, 70 percent, 75 percent is absolute dishonest, absolute scum. Remember that. Scum. Scum. They're totally dishonest people.
(CHEERS AND APPLAUSE)
I had one the other day where I finished a speech and they said, oh, Trump was interrupted and he left early. Like I spoke like for 45, 50 minutes. I then answered question, questions and then I went around -- you know, everybody knew it was false. Amazingly there's a media group that calls the media and the next day they did the most beautiful story about what a lie --
BURNETT: That's Donald Trump live. Obviously, right now, talking about his frustration with the media. He had just moments before that had also talked about his controversial comments, the ban on Muslims entering the United States. Standing by what he had to say.
Moments ago, the executive director of CAIR, which is an acronym that stands for the largest Muslim advocacy group in the United States, responded to Trump's call.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NIHAD AWAD, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF CAIR: And today, just this afternoon, we were extremely shocked to hear Donald Trump calling for total and complete shutdown of Muslims entering the U.S. This is outrageous, coming from someone who wants to assume the highest office in the land. It is reckless and simply un-American. Donald Trump sounds more like a leader of a lynch mob than a great nation like ours.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: The leader of a lynch mob.
Jeff Zeleny is OUTFRONT. He's at the Trump rally. So, Jeff, what did he have to say?
JEFF ZELENY, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Well, Erin, he said he likes Muslims, he has friends who are Muslims, but he said something is going on here. We can't put up with it.
So, at this rally as you can see behind me, he's not yet actually articulated his policy he put out earlier in a statement. He's not yet announced this. He's doing one of his familiar diatribes against the media, talking about patriotism.
But in a statement earlier, Erin, he said we need a complete and total block of Muslims coming into the United States. Now, this was widely condemned by Republican presidential candidates and Democrats and we talked to several voters here about this earlier today.
And, Erin, even the ones who said they thought it was not a good idea, there were several of those they said it was not enough not to support Trump. They like his strength and they agree with him that something needs to be done here in the wake of San Bernardino.
BURNETT: So, Jeff, I mean, he's -- you know, he didn't rule out a database for Muslims to register when that was suggested to him. He faced criticism for that. Now, it's in a sense it sounds a little bit similar to what he said about Mexican immigrants, which he followed with "but I love the Mexicans". But now, he's saying I love the Muslims, as if that will be enough.
And so far, when he said these controversial things he's gone up in the polls.
ZELENY: He has gone up in the polls. I think there's no reason to believe that this kind of rhetoric, this is escalated to the highest point we have heard yet, this is likely to -- the same thing is likely to happen here. People -- he is speaking to people's fears. A lot of his critics say he's preying on their fears.
Now, I can tell you, not everyone in this audience agrees with him, but overall, they like his strength, they like his anti- Washington rhetoric. So, the question here is, will this Republican Party ever coalescing behind one alternative to actually challenge him? Right now, he's benefited from having such support among his rivals.
But, Erin, to a person, Jeb Bush said that this was a wrong- headed move. Chris Christie said this is going to make Muslims actually less safe. He said they need the cooperation of Muslims in this country and Lindsey Graham said it is going to hurt American troops in the field here.
So, this is one of his most controversial proposals yet. We'll see how it plays out in the coming days -- Erin.
BURNETT: All right. Thank you very much, Jeff.
And OUTFRONT now, Katrina Pearson, national spokeswoman for Donald Trump's campaign and "The Daily Beast" columnist and host of the Dean Obeidallah show, Dean Obeidallah.
OK, Katrina, blocking all Muslims from entering the United States. The campaign said that would apply to Muslim citizens currently abroad. A lot of people hear this, Republican candidates among them, and people at the Trump rally tonight among them who say, this is crazy.
KATRINA PIERSON, NATIONAL SPOKESWOMAN FOR DONALD TRUMP: I don't think that they said it was crazy. Whether they agree with it or not is one thing.
But I will say, Erin, that we are seeing and hearing the difference between politicians of political correctness, versus a war time commander. The reason he says this, he wants to freeze all visas coming into this country for a number of reasons, not to just mention what happened in San Bernardino.
But we also know that Homeland Security Chairman McCaul, he also talked about a letter from the Counterterrorism Center that the administration did not disclose that said there are radicals, that they have identified, that have infiltrated the refugees.
And when we talk about tourists -- remember, one of the 9/11 members, the World Trade Center, came here on a tourist visa.
[19:35:02] We don't know what's going on. We have at least 80 radicalized mosques in this country. We have a thousand investigations going on in every single state.
It's common sense to take a pause to figure out who's here, where are they, just to make sure Americans aren't killed, because between 9/11, Iraq and Afghanistan, we have lost 10,000 American lives and the question becomes, how many more American lives are we going to risk before we actually do something?
BURNETT: Dean, what do you say? I mean, a lot of people this may fall on fertile ears to a lot of people who look at an act like this and say, look, she came into the United States. She came in, you know, as a fiancee visa. She's Muslim. We don't want this to happen again. Better be safe than sorry.
DEAN OBEIDALLAH, DAILY BEAST: Well, I'm not surprised about Donald Trump's comments, to be honest. His entire campaign is based on demonizing minorities. He begun by demonizing Latinos and lying and saying Mexicans are sending rapists in this country. He defended a Black Lives Matter person being beaten up. He mocked a disabled reporter and he's going very hard on anti-Muslim bigotries, saying that Muslim-Americans, not just people coming to the country, Muslim- Americans have should less rights because of our religion. So, he wants wireless surveillance of who we are.
It just says to me as someone who's not ready to be the president of the United States. Reality show star, sure, great. But to me, he's no more qualified than Justin Bieber to be the president of the United States of America. And do you know who's really happy about these comments? ISIS. ISIS wants to frame this as America versus Islam. And Donald Trump is helping them. His lack of experience is showing that.
BURNETT: Katrina, what do you say to that? Helping ISIS --
(CROSSTALK)
BURNETT: He's making Americans hate Muslims so therefore it's a war between Christians and the Muslims.
PIERSON: Nobody cares what ISIS thinks, Erin. Nobody cares what ISIS wants. We are talking about American lives here. You can say what you want about what Donald Trump is talking about is true, look at what happened.
BURNETT: I'm going to interrupt you for a moment. I'm sorry. Donald Trump is talking about this in detail.
PIERSON: Sure, go ahead.
TRUMP: -- agreed that violence against Americans, these are people that are here by the way, people here, 25 -- not 1 percent. By the way, 1 percent would be unacceptable, 1 percent is unacceptable, 25 percent of those polled agreed that violence against Americans here in the United States is justified as part, think of that, as part of the global jihad.
(BOOS)
They want to change your religion. I don't think so. I don't think so. I don't think so. Not going to happen.
As part of the global jihad, and 51 percent of those polled agreed that Muslims in America should have the choice of being governed according to Sharia. You know what Sharia is?
(BOOS)
Fifty-one percent. Sharia authorizes -- look, this is -- I mean, it's terrible. Sharia authorizes such atrocities as murder against nonbelievers who won't convert, beheadings and more unthinkable acts that pose great harm to Americans especially women.
I mean, you look -- especially women. Tough stuff. And we have a president that won't even mention the term. And you're talking about numbers like this.
Mr. Trump stated without looking at the various polling data, it's obvious to anybody the hatred is beyond comprehension, of such a big portion. Where the hatred comes from and why we'll have to determine, we're going to have to figure it out. We have to figure it out. We can't live like this.
It's going to get worse and worse. You're going to have more World Trade Centers. We can be politically correct and we can be stupid, but it's going to get worse and worse.
Until we are able to determine and understand this problem, and the dangerous threat it poses, our country cannot be the victim of horrendous attacks by people that believe only in jihad.
These are people only believing in jihad. They don't want our system. They don't want our system.
And have no sense of reason or respect for human life. They have no respect for human life.
(CHANTING)
[19:40:02] That's all right. He sounds like he's very exhausted. It's all right. He's tired.
So they have no respect for human life. So we have to do something. Now, we can be weak, we can be ineffective. We can be foolish.
It's all right. It's all right. I'm sure he's a nice person. I'm sure he can be reasoned with. Be very gentle.
You know, whenever I'm tough, the press is, oh, he was nasty. Whenever I say, be very gentle, they say, he's not as strong as we thought he was.
You can't win. So, I try to cut it down the middle. I try and cut it down. Be very nice.
So, prior to Paris, which was a disaster, which, by the way, if some of the people in those places where it was slaughter, absolute slaughter had guns, you wouldn't have had the carnage that you had in Paris. You wouldn't have had that carnage.
(APPLAUSE)
If they had guns, you wouldn't have had that carnage.
(APPLAUSE)
So important the Second Amendment, we have to preserve it and cherish it. And we can't let these weak leaders diminish it.
If they had guns in Paris, if five people in that room, Paris and France has probably the toughest gun laws anywhere in the world and it was like target practice. Come over here. Boom. Come over here, boom. People are sitting by the hundreds. And many others are going to be dying. They're sitting in a hospital in many cases waiting to die.
Now, same thing a few days ago in California. No guns. We didn't have guns. The bad guys had the guns.
And these young people -- and I tell the press, you've got stop calling them masterminds. These are dirty rotten scum. These aren't mastermind.
(APPLAUSE) Remember the guy in Paris with the big dirty hat? Remember the
guy in Paris, the mastermind. I was watching all the networks. I won't mention who but some of them disgusted me.
The mastermind is on the loose. We have kids that are watching the Internet. They want to be masterminds. Then you wonder why do we lose all these kids? They go over there. They're young, impressionable. They go over there and they want to join ISIS.
And we have our anchors. I think I got them mostly stopped. Did you notice that? I don't hear it too much. They say the young mastermind. Oh, he's brilliant. He's brilliant.
I don't even think he's got a high IQ. I call him, in Paris, I called him the guy with the dirty filthy hat. OK? Not a smart guy, a dummy. Puts people in there, mastermind. Bing, bing, bing, they start shooting everybody. You've got to be a mastermind.
So, the press has to be responsible. They're not being responsible, because we are losing a lot of people because of the Internet. And we have to do something.
We have to go see Bill Gates at a lot of different people, that really understand what's happening. You have to talk to them maybe in certain areas, closing that Internet up in some way. People will say, oh, freedom of speech, freedom of speech.
These are foolish people. We have a lot of foolish people. We have a lot of foolish people.
We've got to do something with the Internet because they are recruiting by the thousands. They're leaving our country.
When they come back, we take them back. "Oh, come on back. Where were you?" "I was fighting for ISIS." "Oh, come on back. Go home. Enjoy yourself."
When they leave our country, and they go to fight for ISIS or any of the other groups, they never come back. They never can come back. They never can come back.
(APPLAUSE)
They can never, ever, ever, ever come back. It's over. How about that?
Now they become radicalized. They are totally radicalized. And how about the woman?
She was in Pakistan, then Saudi Arabia. She brings -- she comes in on an engagement deal and she radicalized the guy.
Probably a guy couldn't get women. I don't know what the hell his problem was. Probably the first woman he ever had. I don't know what was going on, but he became radicalized quickly. Notice how easy? He becomes radicalized. And then they go on a spree.
Folks, those days are over. Those days are over. We have to be tough. We have to be smart. We have to be vigilant.
(APPLAUSE)
Yes. We have to look at mosques. And we have to respect mosques. But yes, we have to look at mosques. We have no choice. We have to see what's happening, because something is happening in there.
Man, there's anger. There's anger.
[19:45:01] And we have to know about it. We can't be these people that are sitting back like in the World Trade Center like so many different things. We can't be people that knew what was going on two weeks in California, probably months knew what was going on and didn't want to tell anybody. We can't be that. We have to be strong.
When we see violations, you have to report those violations and quickly. Don't worry about profiling. I promise I will defend from you profiling. I promise.
(APPLAUSE)
So when I started this whole quest, you know, who knew it was going to turn into this. It's been an amazing thing. No matter where I go, I have tremendous crowds, packed crowds. Packed.
We went Dallas, 20,000 people in Dallas, 25,000 people. I mean, we have -- Mobile, Alabama, 35,000 people. Here, every time I come to South Carolina, every time I go to North Carolina, every time I go to Iowa, New Hampshire, Virginia, wherever I go, Florida -- we have crowds that are maxed.
I mean, the only problem we have is the size of the room. Thousands of people outside trying to get in. Usually I do a double. I talk to them for a while, which I don't exactly love doing after the first one.
But there is unbelievable love in these rooms. All the same.
CROWD MEMBER: I love you, Donald!
TRUMP: I love you, too. I love you. Stand up. Who said it?
(APPLAUSE)
TRUMP: Thank you, thank you. Thank you, darling. I love you, too.
There's an unbelievable love in all of these places. Oklahoma, 20,000 people standing in a park on quick notice.
BURNETT: All right. Donald Trump, doubling down and elaborating on his plan to ban all Muslims from the United States, talking about how he'd have surveillance of mosques.
We're going to be talking much more about this. Our next guest says that the number of foreign fighters since the United States president said ISIS was a jayvee team, the foreign fighters going to fight for ISIS has more than doubled, but he thinks what Donald Trump just said could cause many more Americans to go the way of ISIS.
That's an OUTFRONT exclusive. We'll be talking about what Donald Trump said next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:51:23] BURNETT: Breaking news: an OUTFRONT exclusive, a new report finding the number of foreign fighters that have traveled to Iraq and Syria to join ISIS has more than doubled in the past 18 months. Let me say that again, more than doubled in the past 18 months. This is according to the Soufan Group, a security and intelligence firm. The firm says the number of foreign fighters has gone from 12,000 to about 31,000.
OUTFRONT now, Ali Soufan, the head of the Soufan Group.
These numbers are pretty stunning and this is, of course, as the president said jayvee team and then went on to say ISIS was contained. We've seen the numbers of foreign fighters surge.
ALI SOUFAN, FORMER FBI SUPERVISORY SPECIAL AGENT: Sure. I mean, we were probably one of the first entities to do a number -- to count the foreign fighters in the conflict zone in Syria and Iraq. That was back in May of 2014, and the number at the time was 12,000.
Today when we count them, we count the number of ranges between 27,000 to 31,000. So, it's way more than doubled. If you look at Western Europe, the number is definitely way more than doubled. Former Soviet republics, it went up almost to 300 percent.
So that gives you an idea Putin -- what he's doing in Syria is not only about propping up Assad, definitely he wants to prop up Assad.
BURNETT: Yes.
SOUFAN: But his intervention to Syria might probably, might be rooted in his own national security.
BURNETT: That is pretty stunning.
Now, you've also found that of this number, of up to 31,000 people who have gone to fight, and this is incredible large number, 20 to 30 percent of them, 20 to 30 percent have come home, come back to Western countries.
SOUFAN: The average --
BURNETT: To do what? Plan Paris attacks? SOUFAN: We don't know and this is what's scary. We looked at
all the numbers of people that came back from Western Europe and even from the United States, from the West in general, and the average goes between 20 to 30 percent. The average of people from the E.U., for example, who have returned is about 26.8 percent. In the United States, we have about 40 who returned, a little bit less than the 26.8 percent.
And we need to know, we need to establish a threat matrix for each and every one of these people. We need to know, did they come back because they went there and they said, well, this is not my cup of cake, or they were not impressed by the utopia of the Islamic caliphate, or, you know, they saw so much violence, or did they come to kill people like they did in Paris?
BURNETT: OK. So, let's talk about 40 people in the United States who have come back to the United States and have been allowed to come in. Some people might say, all right, what Donald Trump said today is way over the line but what? There is 40 possible ISIS fighters?
So, let me play it quickly and get your response. Here's Donald Trump.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: So what's happened is we're out of control. We have no idea who is coming into our country. We have no idea if they love us or if they hate us. We have no idea if they want to bomb us. We have no idea what's going on.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SOUFAN: Well, first of all, the 40 people who came back from the United States, they were not just allowed to come in. You know, the law enforcement and the intelligence agencies, probably most of them under arrest. They are going through a detailed --
BURNETT: Interrogation.
SOUFAN: -- thorough interrogation and investigation to see what happened with them. So, I trust what our intelligence agencies, the FBI, the law enforcement, the JTTFs, what they are doing in the United States and their policy towards this.
As for what Mr. Trump is saying, that is very unfortunate. That's kind of like fear-mongering for the lack of better term because if you think about it, national security has been always a rallying point, you know? Even with President Bush after 9/11, he rallied all Americans, Muslims, Christians, Jewish, atheist, black, white, Hispanic, everybody, to stand as one nation against the terrorists.
Unfortunately --
BURNETT: Would this stop if he did this?
[19:55:00] Would this stop a terrorist from coming in, or would it create more terrorists?
SOUFAN: Well, first of all, you need to know who is a terrorist. I mean, some of these guys like Jose Padilla, for example, or John Walker Land, you know, we don't know what's in the head of these individuals. We don't know the radicalization that's going on in their soul.
BURNETT: All right. Ali Soufan, thank you very much. Some incredible new numbers in all these new reports.
We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BURNETT: Thanks so much for joining us. Be sure to set your DVR to record OUTFRONT, so you can watch the show at any time. I'll see you back here tomorrow night.
"AC360" starts right now.
