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Erin Burnett Outfront
Smoke Detected on EgyptAir Flight Before Crash; New Details About EgyptAir Flight 804 Crew; Officials Interview Ground Staff With Access to Doomed Plane; Smoke Detected on EgyptAir Flight Before Crash; "Shark Tank" Star Opens Up About Donald Trump. Aired 7-8p ET
Aired May 20, 2016 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[19:00:12] ERIN BURNETT, CNN ANCHOR: OUTFRONT next, the breaking news. Smoke detected on board EgyptAir 804 just moments before the plane disappeared from radar. Was it from a bomb or mechanical failure?
Plus, investigators interview the ground crew who worked on the plane just before takeoff. How many people had hands on access?
And a real estate titan and reality TV star tells us what she really thinks about the man she has known for decades. Barbara Corcoran of "Shark Tank" talks Donald Trump. Let's go OUTFRONT.
Good evening. I'm Erin Burnett. OUTFRONT tonight, breaking news. New details about the moments before EgyptAir Flight 804 disappeared from radar. CNN is learning that there was smoke on board the plane in the three minutes before it fell from the sky. On board sensors detecting smoke in one of the plane's bathrooms, and in the avionics bay that houses crucial flight controls. Also just in to CNN, investigators interviewing the ground crew that serviced Flight 804 before it took off from Paris. We now know the plan was actually on the tarmac at Charles de Gaulle airport for about 90 minutes before taking off for Cairo.
This as debris and body parts from the plane are being found at sea. It's a horrific scene, and two days after disappearing from radar, no terror group has claimed responsibility for the mysterious crash. Tonight, a massive hunt by sea and air for the plane itself and its black boxes. The plane is in waters as deep as 10,000 feet.
We begin our coverage with Ian Lee OUTFRONT tonight in Cairo. And Ian, a lot of significant new clues this evening.
IAN LEE, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Erin. A lot of these clues coming from the A cars, that's the aircraft communications addressing and reporting system, which monitors the sensors aboard the aircraft. And if verified, it gives us a window into the final moments of the plane before it crashed.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
LEE (voice-over): New evidence tonight revealing what may have caused EgyptAir Flight 804 to nose dive 37,000 feet into the Mediterranean Sea. Real-time data sent from the plane shows smoke was detected in one of the plane's bathrooms at 2:26 a.m. That's just one minute before air traffic controllers tried to reach the pilots with no response. At the same time, smoke detected in the plane's avionics bay where critical electronics are stored.
Finally, at 2:29 problems with the A-320's flight controls. Greek civil aviation officials say 2:29 is also when the plane disappeared from radar. Still unclear, whether the plane was brought down by mechanical failure, or an act of terror. But a bomb remains the leading theory among U.S. officials. Even though no one has claimed responsibility. This, as airplane debris, passenger seats, luggage and body parts all found floating in the Mediterranean. This satellite image taken over the search area 180 miles north of the port city of Alexandria, captures an oil slick, more than a mile long, possibly from the EgyptAir plane.
Nearly 48 hours after the airbus went missing, there's still no sign of the plane's black boxes. Flight data and cockpit voice recorders, crucial to the investigation. Investigators are also looking into the crew's background. Mohammed Saeed Ali Shakir was 36-years-old and have more than 6,000 flying hours including 2,000 at the controls of an airbus 320. His co-pilot, Mohammad Assem had nearly 2,800 flying hours, the airline said. With no bodies recovered -- Egyptians gathered at mosques across the country to offer prayers for the lost. The co-pilot's uncle broke down as he remembered the 24-year-old who was about to get married.
YASER ABDEL GHAFFAR, CO-PILOT'S UNCLE: He's absolutely very kind person. You will never see a guy his age in his humanity and sense of humor. I would say he was the only one that was really drawing smiles on our faces. So --
(END VIDEOTAPE)
LEE: It was heartbreaking out there at that mosque, talking to these family members, remembering their loved ones. But there was also some frustration, Erin. Like you and I, they want to know exactly what happened. What caused this plane to go down. The main theories right now are mechanical or terrorism. And talking to some of the family members, they are starting to come to the reality that their loved ones are dead. For them, though, right now, they want to make sure that their bodies are recovered so they can give them a proper burial.
[19:05:06] BURNETT: Ian Lee, thank you very much. OUTFRONT now, Bob Baer, former CIA operative Tim Clementi, former FBI counterterror agent, Les Abend, a Boeing 777 captain. CNN aviation analyst, David Gallo who co-led the international effort to locate their remains at Air France Flight 447 in waters about as deep as this. And Richard Quest, aviation correspondent.
Let me start with you, Les, these alerts. Three minutes before the plane vanishes from radar. That is when we start to see all of this alerts coming in. You've got smoke in the cockpit. You've got smoke in the bathroom. Anti-ice window, sliding window sensor, and as I said, smoke in the bathroom. What do those mean when you get those alerts coming in? What's the significance? LES ABEND, CONTRIBUTING EDITOR, FLYING MAGAZINE: Yes. My gut feel
right off the bat, Erin, is that there was a fire source in the electronics bay. And all the other -- all the other data that came from the ACARS. And once again, you know, I'm always skeptical about this kind of stuff, is you know, where does this source come from. But let's assume it's correct. Now it started -- the fire started to go after certain electronic equipment. And the ACARS that that batch data was showing all that -- that stuff that was failing. And that fire was going through flight control systems, you're in a fly-by-wire airplane and you're losing flight control systems.
BURNETT: And then the plane, of course, starts to swerve. So dramatically.
ABEND: If the crew can't control it, correct.
BURNETT: So, Richard Quest, you know, the order -- as we say, these alerts started three minutes before the plane vanishes. You have smoke in the bathroom and then over the next two minutes, you get more things. Fixed window sensor is one of them. Issues with the flight control system. And avionics smoke. So you've got smoke in the bathroom first then, avionic smoke, fixed window sensor. What does that tell you about how this event, for lack of a better word at this point, transpired?
RICHARD QUEST, CNN AVIATION CORRESPONDENT: Erin, I need you to think of this as a cascading series of events. What happens, whatever causes the fire, however the fire has begun, creates an incident. The fire then starts to affect other systems on the aircraft. And you get the warning. The warning, the warning for example, about the window sensor. The fire then creates an incident with the smoke in the bathroom, for example. And you get a warning. And the avionics warning.
But in all cases, Erin, it's a cascading series of events that is getting ever worse, and taking the aircraft into ever more peril. And this is what we saw with value jet over the everglades many years ago. It's what we saw with Swiss Air. And so, Erin, we don't know the cause of this. But we are most definitely getting extremely important pieces of the jigsaw that now gives us the location of the incident.
BURNETT: So -- yes.
QUEST: The likely reason why they couldn't communicate.
BURNETT: And so, you know, Tim -- now as Richard points out, and Les, you now have a location. That location at least from these alerts appears to be the front of the plane. The bathroom right behind the cockpit and the cockpit itself in some cascading order. When you put those pieces together, these alerts together, what do you think?
TIM CLEMENTI, FORMER FBI COUNTERTERRORISM AGENT: Well, I think there is certainly a possibility, Erin, that it was a malfunction with some of the systems on the plane and that may have started a fire. You think of TWA 800, a similar event happened off the coast of Long Island. With the -- one of the fuel tanks and a spark igniting the gases in that tank. In this situation, we cannot rule out terrorism yet. Because this is -- you look at the two targets. France and EgyptAir. Both have been targets of recent terror attacks. So unless you're just coming out of a coma or living in a cave the last couple of years, it's not much of a stretch to think this might be a terrorist act.
The fact that there may have been a smoke alarms going off, is an indication that possibly something what, you know, Richard Reed, when he was trying to light his shoes on fire, the underwear bomber. Those guys when they're on the plane, trying to ignite an IED in their underwear or in their shoes, had to use some form of a flame to start that. Which may set off an alarm. The fact that it's happening right behind the cockpit could indicate that there was a conflagration rather than a debt nation of an IED. Something of a low explosive or rather than a high explosive.
BURNETT: And, of course, something that someone could have gone into the bathroom to assemble, Bob Baer.
ROBERT BAER, FORMER CIA OPERATIVE: You can do it in the bathroom. But the fact that the avionics bay picked up smoke, that could be from a fuse, for instance. Black powder fuse. You know, if that thing had been butt in the cockpit or somewhere on the airplane, you would first smell powder. If you have ever done these before. You can see them. The fuses start -- start the powder. Frankly, I've never heard of an airplane, you know catching fire and going down so quickly for a small fire. But I may be wrong about that. And again, I agree. France, Egypt, you know, it starts to, you know, I still weigh this on the side of terrorism. But when we get that black box, we'll know for sure.
[19:10:15] BURNETT: And David, when we get that black box, being the big question. The flight data recorder, the cockpit voice recorder --
DAVID GALLO, CNN AVIATION ANALYST: Yes.
BURNETT: They could be 10,000 feet below the surface.
GALLO: Absolutely.
BURNETT: You were in charge of Air France 447. They took two years to find that off the coast of Brazil at the same depth. So we may not get these answers.
GALLO: It's going to be slow-going. Any time you have to work beneath the sea, nothing happens very quickly. So just assembling the right tools, the right team, the right ship to begin the search for these objects is going to take some time.
BURNETT: And they don't at this point even have a fuselage. They don't even have a plane. I mean, they have some debris floating in the surface. There is no plane.
GALLO: There is no plane. They need to find the backtrack, all of the floating objects to x marks the spot on the surface.
BURNETT: Right.
GALLO: And then that becomes the center of a haystack and hopefully somewhere in that haystack is the bits of that needle.
BURNETT: Les, as a pilot, one thing that I think people have is a question here. There's three minutes that go by these warnings coming out. Some of these warnings could have been sent as the plane was disintegrating. We don't know the exact time line of warning to plane falling apart. But what we do know, is that there was no Mayday call. We do know the pilots never asked for help. They never said anything about help. Does that stand out as strange to you if there were three minutes from the first warning that they would have said nothing?
ABEND: Not at all. And Richard pointed it out. At one point. That, you know, our job is communicate, navigate. We have learned that's from day one. So when we have a situation that starts setting off warnings, we have to assess the situation. So, that's the first thing we're going to do. We're not going to communicate to anybody, because we're the ones that have to solve the problem. And then we're going to start going to our checklist. And once we go to our checklist, they have specific instructions on what we can do. And there will be multiple things, multiple warnings going on. And by the way, with reference to the smoke detected in the lavatory, it may have been the forward lavatory, because the E&E compartment was on fire or sending smoke --
BURNETT: The electronics --
ABEND: Yes, I'm sorry, yes, the electronics bay was sending smoke up into the lavatory.
BURNETT: Right. We don't know if -- because there was smoke in the bathroom that could have started in the bathroom, that it could have started in the bathroom. It's unclear.
All right. We'll be back with all of you in just a moment. Dozens of people had direct access to this flight. Two flight 804 before it took off from Paris. Obviously, this is a crucial area of inquiry. A former CIA director today says it's likely an inside job. Was it? Wait until you see how many people touched the plane.
Plus, investigators looking at the debris from Flight 804. They don't have a plane yet. They have some debris. You're seeing here. What are they learning from this?
And new details tonight about the people on board. Our special report, ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:16:13] BURNETT: Breaking news tonight in the investigation into EgyptAir Flight 804. Moments ago, CNN confirming French officials are interviewing ground staff. Ground staff that work near the plane at Charles de Gaulle Airport. This includes caterers, baggage handlers and gate agents. Now, these are the people who came in direct contact with the plane. They are just some of the 86,000 employees, 86,000 -- who have restricted access to secure areas at Charles de Gaulle.
Tom Foreman is OUTFRONT. Tom, it's a pretty stunning number. So, let's talk about this flight as we now know on the ground for about an hour and a half, various people would have come in direct contact with the plane. Just how many of them could have literally physically touched this plane, been on board?
TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, we know at the time it disappeared that there should have been two people in the cockpit. There were five crew members back in the cabin. There were three security people. We marked them here in red. And there should have 56 passengers on board at that time. But you're talking about the airport here. Let's take this plane and sweep it back in time to Charles de Gaulle Airport when I sitting at the gate here and talk about those ground crews we're talking about. People who had access to the immediate area around this plane.
So who are we talking about? Well, there is the ground maintenance crew. The people who basically bring the plane in. Guide it to position. They put shocks on the wheels, they hook up fuel lines. Then you have people like the luggage handlers, people are putting baggage on and off the plane. What about who are clean-up crews who might have to go on board and handle a few things. Or caterers who are replacing food and beverages on the plane. And then you have gate agents. People who have to sort out tickets and maybe make sure people get in seats where they want to be. You put all those together and you very easily get to 35 people who would have absolutely direct hands-on contact inside the plane, around the plane. Touching the plane -- Erin.
BURNETT: All right. So 35, which is a, you know, that's a big number to begin with, as you're starting. But at least it's manageable, I suppose, in some sense. But beyond that, direct contact. Anyone who has access to restricted areas, who could have gotten on that plane, that isn't in that technical group you're talking about. How many people does that include?
FOREMAN: Well, it's not expanded even that much. Just a little bit. Little bit. What if you just say, what about the plane next to it, and what about the plane up here. Because we've all been on planes and we've seen crews moving back and forth.
BURNETT: Yes.
FOREMAN: Right away, you could easily triple this number. You could easily go over 100 people that are in easy contact distance with the plane. And then what about if you expand it to the whole airport, as you mentioned a minute ago, Erin. All of the people who have badges to go into restricted areas here. Then this number goes off the charts. Eighty six thousand. And that's not counting all of the people they had contact with that day, Erin. You know, one of the things we were curious about. This was a big number compared to for example, Los Angeles International Airport here where it's only about 48,000 people who have that kind of access.
But we were curious. What if you looked at every airport in the United States? All the people out there who have badges that let them go into some sort of restricted area. How many people are you talking about? Interestingly enough, just last year, Homeland Security gave us a number. 3.7 million people, Erin. That is a lot of folks to keep track of.
BURNETT: That is a stunning number. And that is badges in the United States, people with access to the secure areas of our airports. Tom Foreman, thank you very much.
My panel back with me, also joining me now, Art Roderick, our law enforcement analyst, former assistant director for investigations with the U.S. Marshall. So, Art, let me start with you. Let's start with the news tonight. They are now questioning people with direct access to that plane. People on the ground.
All right. You heard Tom say that's 35, if you look at planes even nearby. You quickly get to 100. So we don't know the exact number that they are directly questioning but we know they are now questioning them. The former CIA director says this was an inside job. Do you agree?
ART RODERICK, FORMER ASSISTANT DIRECTOR FOR INVESTIGATIONS, U.S. MARSHALS: It certainly sounds like it, if it comes down to -- it was an incendiary device or bomb. We still don't know yet. It could be some type of catastrophic mechanical failure. The key part is the individuals that had contact with that aircraft. And I think that is weakness that we have to look at here in the U.S. when you're talking 3.7 million people, that work at these airports that have access to aircraft, and you look at background investigations and how they are conducted, a simple single scope that sort of investigation could just mean they run the criminal history of the individual. All the way up to a clearance that I had for 25 years which was a top secret SCI clearance, which is a very detailed investigative background.
BURNETT: Right.
RODERICK: But now having said that, once you get that badge, when do they get reinvestigated, even for a top secret SCI clearance.
BURNETT: Right. And Tim Clementi, one thing that we have learned on this plane with a 3.7 million Americans with this top security clearance, it's just last summer, Tim. We learned that at least 73 of them, just in this country, at one look, at one point in time, 73 of them were on a terror watch list. Now, that's a pretty stunning thing.
[19:21:11] CLEMENTI: That should tell you something, Erin. And I think that we probably have -- I would imagine, the most stringent standards when it comes to evaluating people before they get a clearance to be on an airport tarmac or anywhere close to the sensitive areas of an airport. And I -- I'm not so sure that we could say the same thing in Tunisia, in Egypt, and in the other countries that that aircraft was in prior to landing in Paris and prior to departing for Cairo.
BURNETT: That's right. Yes, a report on that in a moment. I mean, just the places it went. I mean, Richard Quest, in this airport alone, in Charles de Gaulle, which as you know has been -- terrorists have said they wanted to target. We know that even among the Paris attackers last fall that had been a goal of theirs. More than 80 workers that were suspected of being radicalized, lost security clearances at that time at Paris Charles de Gaulle. They lost their security clearances but they kept jobs. They kept working and less secure jobs at the airport. When you hear that, you sort of say, wait a minute. Is that possible? I mean, how can that be that that's a solution at an airport that's supposedly operating at its highest possible alert level?
QUEST: Well, hang on a second, Erin. Because in this case what happened, the 85 lost their high security clearance. Because either they had believed to have been radicalized or they had Islamist sympathies or they would believe to be in some shape or form. But we don't know the standard upon which they used. And in any case, there had to be an independent tribunal and a sort of judge authority before they were able to lose their clearances. They are not talking here about people who are out and out members of al Qaeda or ISIS. We're talking here about people who the security forces felt had -- if you like, were too sympathetic to an Islamic cause. Now the issue, of course, is what are you going to do? Are you going to fire them? In which case you're arguably saying, you know, where is my freedom speech?
I happen to agree with whatever it is. Are we going to fire them? No, what the French did was basically say, all right, you keep your job. But you're not getting near an aircraft. You're not going into a secure area. I think it's a very tricky area that they have to deal with. And that you're talking about 85 people. Another 600 people, Erin, lost their security clearances, because of petty crime.
BURNETT: All right.
QUEST: So, these vast numbers or these large numbers, and tens of thousands of people. But it's a tricky area.
BURNETT: Bob Baer?
BAER: Well, I mean, we had worker at Minneapolis Airport that would join the Islamic State. And, you know, Richard is right. That you just can't -- you don't know what's going on in these people's mind. But let's go back to the mechanics of a bomb. You can just take a couple of ounces and put it on the skin of an airplane, that means you know, something the size basically a key fob with a magnet and a detonator and put it on the avionics bay and you can bring it down and it's really difficult to detect. Or if that plane had stopped for instance in Tunis and somebody got in the bathroom, and, you know, put something in the wall, very small explosives --
BURNETT: Set it on a timer.
BAER: -- which would have a zipper effect. Or you can detonate these by cell phone, if they're within their range. And there's so many ways for these people to do it. And all you've got to do is have access to that plane, even as a passenger in an airport that's not particularly well-monitored. And you can take down an airplane like EgyptAir. So I don't even know where they're going to start with -- you know, Charles de Gaulle Airport is in Saint-Denis where the Islamic State people were operating out on the November attack. So the French have basically a nightmare in front of them trying to vet all of these people.
BURNETT: All right. And, of course, a terrifying act if this were to happen, if they have the ability to do that on a plane coming out of Charles de Gaulle, it did changes the world for all of us.
Thank you all very much. We'll all be back in just a moment. But the EgyptAir debris pulled from the Mediterranean tonight. They're desperately trying to pull pieces but the plane itself, the fuselage, the body is still missing. We're going to go inside a bomb lab to see whether they'll be able to find out exactly what happened on board without the full fuselage.
And we're learning so much more about the people, the tragedy of the people who lost their lives. We have a special report.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:29:21] BURNETT: Breaking news on the crash of EgyptAir Flight 804. Tonight we're learning the airbus A-320 was on the ground in Paris for 91 minutes before the flight. French officials tells CNN it arrived at 9:50 p.m. and then took off again at 11:21 p.m. headed for Cairo.
Atika Shubert is OUTFRONT from Charles de Gaulle Airport. And Atika, what happened during those 91 minutes?
ATIKA SHUBERT, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, this is a pretty typical time for a plane, you know, for a turn-around. Basically, as soon as those passengers disembark, they have to begin that turn-around process. That means everything from cleaning the plane, refueling it, to servicing it. What we know for sure, from airport authorities, is that that plane was -- did have a screening team that went through it.
[19:30:03] That means they looked for anything that might have been left behind from the previous, look for any suspicious objects on the plane. Nothing was flagged up, and the plane was cleared to go. Now, everybody who had contact with that plane from baggage handlers to caterers and technicians, they are all now subject to that investigation and are being interviewed by investigators to find out if there was anything suspicious.
One extra thing to add is that like many planes like this, this was not the only flight of the day. In fact, it started much earlier in the morning, at Asmara, Eritrea, and traveled to Tunis, back and forth to Cairo before it got to Paris. So, the other legs are things that investigators have to look at to find out if there is any possible weak spots in the security.
ERIN BURNETT, CNN ANCHOR: All right, Atika. Thank you very much. And obviously, different points as she points out. Eritrea, Tunis, and two days before, had been in other cities, including Brussels as they track this down.
Flight 804 sent automated messages of smoke in the bathroom in the airport controls. Tonight, U.S. officials are working on the theory a bomb was to blame.
So, what kind of bomb?
Kyung Lah is OUTFRONT.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KYUNG LAH, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It's in the wreckage of EgyptAir Flight 804 that investigators will inspect for more evidence of a possible explosive device.
THOMAS ANTHONY, USC AVIATION SAFETY AND SECURITY DIR: If we compare the sides, there is a -- there's a difference. There's a very distinct difference.
LAH: Walking us through this bomb research lab, former FAA civil aviation security manager, Thomas Anthony, says investigators look for telltale marks of each type of bomb.
ANTHONY: C4 is very adaptable for the purposes of the terrorists, because it can be formed into shapes.
LAH (on camera): C4 doesn't burn.
ANTHONY: It does not burn. It releases its high temperature, and high pressure gases through shock.
Look at the edges here. The edges on the black powder are very, very different. They have this sort of like almost coral-like look to them. This is napalm. Look at all the residue of the napalm that was left behind. That's something that is indicative and characteristic of the napalm.
LAH: Are there countless numbers of explosives?
ANTHONY: There are dozens of types of explosives.
In the view of the terrorist, a terrorist is likely to follow up a success with a similar form of attack.
LAH (voice-over): Last October, MetroJet Flight 9268 crashed over the Sinai Peninsula, killing all 224 aboard. ISIS claimed in a propaganda magazine they brought it down, using explosive material hidden in a soda can. The picture shows wires and a detonator with an on and off switch. CNN cannot independently verify the authenticity of the photo.
As relatives of the passengers wait through the agonizing search and recovery, the victims' bodies will also hold forensic clues. If it was an explosive, the direction of the blast and what type. But this recovery will be under water, like the AirAsia Flight 8501 disaster in December 2014, potentially eroding some of the evidence but not all of it.
A lab can still detect evidence underwater, even melted seal. Anthony says it's critical to have forensic proof in an aviation investigation. But just as important, the investigation beyond the wreckage.
ANTHONY: Not what happened only, but how it happened so that that vulnerability can identified and fixed.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
LAH: It is important to say there is no conclusive evidence yet that this was a bomb. This is occurring leading theory by U.S. intelligence officials because of when it happened. That it was during a safe part of the flight and how rapidly this happened.
Erin, they believe that much of this will lie within those fragments of the plane -- Erin.
BURNETT: All right. Kyung Lah, thank you.
And now, former NTSB managing director Peter Goelz joins us, along with Art Roderick and David Gallo.
So, Peter, EgyptAir, they so far have found seats, they found luggage, they have found human remains. They do not have the fuselage, the main part of this plane. From what they have, when you think about seats and luggage, will they -- what will they be able to figure out?
PETER GOELZ, CNN AVIATION ANALYST: Well, I doubt if they're going to be able to figure out much definitively. The stuff that's floating may be tainted with some degree of explosive material. It may show some blast damage. But most likely, it will not. We're going to need the full fuselage.
And most importantly, when a plane -- if there is an explosion on a plane, the first material blown out of the plane is the most important from an investigative standpoint. That tells you where it is. And they're going to have to look further up the flight line to see if there are any parts of the plane further up.
[19:35:04] It's going to be a very challenging investigation. And as David has mentioned and will mention, it is awfully difficult to find things in the bottom of the ocean quickly.
BURNETT: All right. And this isn't shallow.
I mean, David Gallo, he says the most important parts blown out first. You have a plane traveling, breaking up. It all then goes underwater. In other bomb situations, whether it'd be Lockerbie or MetroJet, these were on ground.
DAVID GALLO, CNN AVIATION ANALYST: Right.
BURNETT: They were able -- in Lockerbie, really able to eventually find the exact location. GALLO: Sure.
BURNETT: That may not be possible here?
GALLO: No, it's very possible. I mean, we have gotten new technology that allows you to do a very detailed map over wide area. So, the trick is to identify where that haystack is and then begin mapping until you find the wreck site. And then you go into another mode, which is to document. They're using high-resolution cameras.
And with Air France, for instance, I think we took 85,000 --
BURNETT: 447 --
GALLO: Air France 447, 85,000 photos. So you can present the forensic team with a very detailed photographic map of the wreck site. And then they can use that to direct even more high-resolution studies of that wreck. So they can go on an example, or use even higher resolution video or stills to examine various parts of the plane.
BURNETT: So you think it's possible even with this being a 10,000 feet and at this point they don't have the plane but they will find the plane.
GALLO: It's definitely possible. The engineering is such if the forensic team asks certain questions that the team can produce those answers for them.
BURNETT: Art, what about the significance of the fact no one has yet claimed responsibility?
ART RODERICK, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: I mean, as we have seen in the past, sometimes it might take two or three days. I mean, al Qaeda is very much like that where they don't claim right away. See how everything is working out. But that is a pretty good indicator. I think by Monday night, Tuesday, if we haven't heard anything yet, then that's going to be a very interesting twist on this whole incident.
BURNETT: And, Peter, what's your bottom line guess as to what you think happened here, whether it was a bomb or a technical malfunction?
GOELZ: Well, if we believe what we've gotten out of the ACARS data that something started, you know, in the forward part of the plane, in the engineering bay, or in that forward lavatory, my guess is, it is still some sort of terrorist device, because whatever happened, happened very quickly.
BURNETT: All right. Thank you all very much.
And OUTFRONT next, a geologist, a photographer, a young man just engaged. What we are learning about the people on board Flight 804.
And my exclusive interview with real estate giant and "Shark Tank" star, Barbara Corcoran, a woman who has known Donald Trump for decades. Her surprising answer to this question.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Who do you actually think will win?
BARBARA CORCORAN, REAL ESTATE GIANT & "SHARK TANK" STAR: Oh, who will win?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:41:41] BURNETT: And the breaking news, a massive search underway at this hour. They are looking for EgyptAir 804, for the plane itself.
Meanwhile, we are learning more about the 66 people on board that flight. A French photographer heading for a Red Sea vacation. So was a teacher of meditation and healing. There are just two of the 66 people who lost their lives.
Miguel Marquez is OUTFRONT.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MIGUEL MARQUEZ, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The crushing reality setting in. Their loved ones gone.
"We were at a press conference", says. "They said nothing. Some people just collapsed, then left."
At Cairo's El Seddik Mosque, a special Friday prayer for the victims of Flight 804. A painful gathering of friends and family, devastated. An uncle of the plane's co pilot, Mohamed Mamdouh Asem.
YASSER ABDEL GHAFFAR, UNCLE OF CO-PILOT: He was about to get married. He is really in a relationship. And he just introduced me to his --
MARQUEZ: Ten crew members, 56 passengers, two of them infants, all looking forward to reunions and new adventures. In a disorienting turn, today, their loved ones in shock, inconsolable.
Marwa Hamdy was a Canadian living in Cairo, mother of three, the school her kids attended posted this on Facebook. She was a devoted and loving mother, always there to offer a helping hand with a pure smile.
Richard Osman, a geologist from Wales, working in Egypt. The 40-year- old leaves behind two infant daughters.
ALISTAIR OSMAN, BROTHER OF VICTIM: He was just, you know, a very admirable person. I think a lot of people admired him for his strength and values.
MARQUEZ: Pascal Hess, an independent photographer from France, almost didn't make the flight. He lost his passport the week before the trip. He was 51 years old. Ahmed Helal was headed to Egypt to visit his sick father. The 40-
year-old director of a Procter and Gamble facility in France was said to be always smiling. The family of Mirvat Zaki Mohamed, the head flight attendant on 804, says she was just starting a new life.
"She was a newly wed who got married six or seven months ago," she says. "I asked God for the flight to be hijacked instead of what we have been told. We have hope."
With debris from the plane now being found, hope overtaken by grief.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MARQUEZ: And now comes that painstaking task of locating the plane, finding the bodies, recovering them, and then doing the DNA analysis to match them with their family members so they can be reunited. These families have a long, hard road ahead.
BURNETT: Miguel, thank you.
And OUTFRONT next, a woman who has gone head-to-head with Donald Trump.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CORCORAN: He was my best advocate when I was on his side and supporting him. If you ever differ with him, he was your worst nightmare.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: My exclusive interview with Barbara Corcoran, next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:48:42] BURNETT: My next guest is one of the biggest names in real estate. A successful entrepreneur and star of a hit TV show. But one of the only differences between her and Donald Trump is she is a woman.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CORCORAN: Michaela, I want to say something. You've got to give up this crying stuff.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK.
CORCORAN: The minute a woman cries, you're giving away your power. You have to cry privately.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, I think it takes a lot of strength to show this type of vulnerability.
CORCORAN: No, no, no.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I understand what you mean. CORCORAN: Not in business.
I feel very badly saying this to you. But I as a matter of principle don't invest in rich kids' businesses.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Barbara Corcoran, the sharp-witted star of "Shark Tank" is OUTFRONT.
All right. Now, you as a real estate mega star, well before you became a reality TV star, you have known Donald Trump for decades in the world of New York real estate.
What do you think of him in that capacity?
CORCORAN: I don't think Donald changed one inch since the day I met him. I met him in my mid-20s, so was he. He was starting new in the business, as was I. And so, we kind of came up through the ranks together.
He was my best advocate, when I was on his side and supporting him. If you ever differ with him, he was your worst nightmare.
He hasn't changed in the technique he's used from the beginning of time to this day to get notoriety, to play the press, and to be exactly who he is.
[19:50:06] He hasn't changed a bit. It's remarkable to me.
BURNETT: Remarkable to you. Do you see him as the hugely successful businessman that he is portraying himself as to the country, to voters?
CORCORAN: I think he is a hugely successful businessman because of his enormous ability to put out an image and make everybody fall for it. But I have to say he is great at recovery and getting everyone to believe he is back on top. He is a magician in that regard.
BURNETT: So, when you're saying, magician, though, are you saying, he gets people to believe something that's not true, that there is no man behind the curtain, that the emperor has no clothes? Or is it that he really is able to recover and deliver the goods?
CORCORAN: Well, there's always a mini man behind the curtain. But the over-exaggeration and claims that are made are about 100 times taller than that little man behind the curtain so to speak.
BURNETT: So would he make a good president?
CORCORAN: I don't think so at all. I mean, when I heard he was running for the president the first time, now again a second time, I actually thought it was a joke. I have to say that there are traits that have to be part of any great leader that just don't exist -- fairness, fair play, no bullying, no name calling, creating consensus with a population with great diversity, not making people divided and hating each other. Not appealing to the worst base note in a human being.
And he does all those things particularly well, yet he is looking for the biggest leadership in America.
BURNETT: So, how you feel about him. One thing that's interesting about you and him is the issue of women. As a woman, you have dealt with him. As a woman, you've been incredibly successful in what used to be in many ways is a man's world and we're talking real estate. Donald Trump has come under incredible criticism for this.
You recently came under fire for a tweet you made which you later deleted, OK? But here's what it read. "I find running a business in a man's world to be a huge advantage. I wear bright colors, yank up my skirt and get attention."
What did you mean by that?
CORCORAN: I'll tell you what I mean, I stand by it. I have been in the business world 40 years. I've built a huge and successful brand in business and doing it again through many entrepreneurs. And I can tell you that whatever advantage you have, you have to play in business to stay apart from the pack.
What I did when I walked into a room filled with men, this was a man's world, I was not noticed, I was not talked to. I would wear like a man's suit. The minute I realized wear a bright red suit, roll up my skirts, and relay show the asset I have, not the greatest face but I have great legs. I walked in, everybody wanted to know who I was.
There's nothing wrong, whether you're a male or female, this isn't a sexual thing. This is about playing up whatever advantage you have to stand apart from the pack. That's business common sense. I endorse it for anyone to use it.
BURNETT: Now, is this something that you think someone like Donald Trump could agree with, right, he is coming under criticism for his beauty pageants and how he like to look at the women and comment on their beauty, which, of course, is why they were there? Do you think?.
CORCORAN: It's a little different. It's a little different in a business situation, I have been there many times. When you're in a business situation and someone is making a physical reference to your beauty or something about you, or your lack of beauty. It's inappropriate. It is a sex card and not appropriate in any situation. Vastly different.
BURNETT: So the issue of women is very important in this election because of --
CORCORAN: It is going to be the main --
(CROSSTALK)
BURNETT: Hillary Clinton is a woman. Donald Trump has said that Hillary Clinton and Bill Clinton, and his infidelities are fair game. In fact, he's attacked Hillary Clinton for the way she handled her husband's infidelity. Here's how he put it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Hillary was an enabler and she treated these women horribly, just remember this. And some of those women were destroyed not by him but by the way that Hillary Clinton treated them after everything went down.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Is it fair to call her an enabler?
CORCORAN: It is so unfair. That is so insulting. When I heard that, I wanted to throw something at my TV honestly. I was livid hearing that. Who would treat a woman that would treat the person that slept with your husband lovely after the fact? Name one person. I wouldn't.
BURNETT: So, when this boils down, does this mean you're a Hillary Clinton supporter? Are you going to vote for her?
CORCORAN: I tell you what Hillary Clinton has. She's at least presidential, OK? She has dignity. She is not a street dirty fighter. She has credentials to be president of the United States, and she's a woman of great accomplishment.
I have to say that somehow is lost in the media jungle out there. These are very important traits. She's also kind. Kind is a most underestimated virtue in any leader and it's very important.
BURNETT: Look, you said a lot of things negative about him but you've also said some positive things about him.
[19:55:02] CORCORAN: Uh-huh.
BURNETT: And a lot of people honed in on positive things you said. You've given him credit for his ability to win people over to his side.
CORCORAN: He is a salesman.
BURNETT: You talked about how he got people to buy a piece of property they were from Hong Kong. They've never even seen it.
CORCORAN: Remarkable.
BURNETT: He does have skills.
CORCORAN: He has -- he is probably one of the most powerful, effective salespeople I have ever met in my life. But the down side, the end side to that, the tail end of it, is you can't count on it. Whatever he is saying you can bet your life on the fact he will probably not come through, and that's a tremendous characteristic sorely needed in a president. I mean, that is mind boggling. I don't think you can listen to anything he says and think he will actually do it. BURNETT: So, what's the bottom line? Who do actually think will win?
CORCORAN: Oh, who will? Donald Trump will win.
BURNETT: Donald Trump?
CORCORAN: Not a doubt in my mind.
BURNETT: All right. Barbara Corcoran, thank you very much.
And we'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BURNETT: Thank you so much for joining us. Have a great weekend. I'll see you back here on Monday.
"AC360" with John Berman starts right now.
