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Erin Burnett Outfront
Trump Under Fire For Floating Unfounded Conspiracy Theories; Clinton Mocks Johnson Over Favorite World Leader Gaffe; 114 Injured In Deadly Rush Hour Train Crash; Source: Christie May Take Over Trump's Debate Prep; Trump Still Insisting He Won Debate. Aired 7-8p ET
Aired September 29, 2016 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN THE SITUATION ROOM ANCHOR: I'm Wolf Blizter. "ERIN BURNETT OUTFRONT" starts right now.
[19:00:09] ERIN BURNETT, CNN ERIN BURNETT OUTFRONT HOST: OURFRONT next. The breaking news, a packed train crashing at high speeds, slamming into a busy train station at rush hour. How could this happen? We're live on the scene tonight. Plus, is the New Jersey Governor, Chris Christie, taking over Donald Trump's debate prep? And Donald Trump's lies and conspiracy theories. We checked the record on just one rally tonight. Let's go OUTFRONT.
And good evening, I'm Erin Burnett. OUTFRONT tonight, the "BREAKING NEWS." Rush hour horror, a packed train running at a high rate of speed, slams over barriers. The lead car, goes airborne, and the train plows into a crowded station, a commuter station in New Jersey. One person was killed, a 34-year-old woman, Fabiola Bittar de Kroon, killed by falling debris, as she was just waiting on that station platform to go to work. More than 100 people are injured tonight, some critically. The engineer just released from the hospital, said to be cooperating with authorities tonight. The scene immediately after the crash, really a scene of horror. Witnesses say the train's first car was utterly demolished. A loud boom, is what they say they heard, then people screaming as the lights in the train went out.
WITNESS: It didn't slow down. It definitely didn't slow down. There was no brakes. All of a sudden, it just crashed.
BURNETT: Many passengers were getting ready to exit the train, so they were standing when this happened, in the aisles. Bloodied commuters were crawling out through train windows. Deborah Feyerick, gives OUTFRONT tonight in Hoboken here at the scene. And Deborah, I mean, truly horrific, what happened here. What more can you tell us, about why? What was the cause?
[19:01:49] DEBORAH FEYERICK, NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, that's exactly what NTSB investigators are trying to determine what happened and why did it happen. They say that they are going to be on scene for at least 7-10 days. They're not going to be determining probable cause while they are here, but they're looking at mechanical issues, human factors, whether there was a traffic component that perhaps contributed to this crash. They are looking at every single angle to find out why this tragedy happened. It happened without warning, at the height of morning rush hour. A New Jersey commuter train, packed with passengers traveling at a high rate of speed as it entered the Hoboken Station around 8:45 a.m.
OMAR MAAMOUN, SURVIVOR OF TRAIN CRASH: I looked outside the window, we're approaching the station and we aren't slowing down, so I was confused. People were falling all on top of each other because since we're entering the station, people are standing up, ready to get off.
WILLIAM BLAINE, TRAIN ENGINEER: I just heard a kaboom. The whole place shook, like it's like a boom and an earthquake.
PASSENGER: It just didn't stop and just got thrown around, lights went out. I think the roof caved in on the train.
FEYERICK: Witnesses say the train slammed into a protective bumper. The force sending the front car, several feet into that air and onto a platform full of commuters.
TOM, WITNESS OF TRAIN CRASH: There certainly were some major injuries from things falling, people bleeding from the head.
BLAINE: I saw a deceased person right there, which disturbed me, a young lady and she was actually gone.
FEYERICK: That woman has been identified by the New Jersey medical examiner as 34-year-old, Fabiola Bittar de Kroon. She was waiting on the platform, hers is the only death, more than 100 others are injured. The train caused massive structural damage to the station. Parts of the station's ceiling collapsed, pipes burst, beams came crashing down, and with them, electrical wiring. William Blaine, a train engineer for Norfolk Southern, was in the station. He ran to help and says he saw the engineer, right after the crash.
BLAINE: I looked up, you could see his shirt, he was slouched over in the - in the cab with the engine.
FEYERICK: The cause of the crash is under investigation. This video shows the train running along the track as usual, around 8:05 in the morning. But 40 minutes later, a routine commute came to a crashing end. And Erin, NTSB investigators are not even going to be able to get into that front car until Friday afternoon, at the very earliest. Contractors have to come in and got to remove that ceiling, that canopy, that crashed in on the car. They've also got to remove potential asbestos, so this could take longer than initially anticipated, but in the meantime, they're going to be speaking to the engineer, and they're also going to be looking at the event recorder to determine the speed and whether the train was braking, and if not, why? There are also two cameras that were on that train, outward facing cameras, it's how they're describing it. They're going to be looking very closely at that video and that information to see what they can learn from it, Erin.
BURNETT: All right. Thank you so much, Deb. And I want to go now to Brian Todd, OUTFRONT in Hoboken. Brian, 114 patients, we knew some of them have been critically injured. What do you know about how they are tonight?
[19:04:52] BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Erin, we're told that many of them have been treated and released at local hospitals. Some of them for injuries as minor as scrapes, cuts, bruises, things like that. Some of the injuries were more serious. We were told that at least a couple of patients had to have surgery and we hope to get an update soon on their condition. But the accounts from some of the victims here of some of the injuries at the scene, are just horrific. Some victims saying that there was blood everywhere. At least one passenger said, he saw a man who was missing an eye, and there were reports of a woman trapped under rubble who was motionless. You know, these accounts are just incredibly disturbing to hear and very graphic in detail, you know, some passengers saying they had to crawl out windows, one man described having a window being kicked out, and he had to crawl through that. So again, you know, this was just pure chaos, at the moment of impact here, and the passengers with some really graphic descriptions.
You know, what they've also said, many of them, almost uniformly have said that look, a lot of us were standing, you know, getting ready to deboard the train, when it came into the station. It was people saw and do in this situations. And all of a sudden, they were just thrown forward, thrown into other people, thrown into seats, things like that. And many of them said, that they never even felt this train, brake. So, you know, again those are questions that are going to have to be answered with the event recorders that Deborah was talking about, whether they are going to be able to be recovered from the scene. We do know from the NTSB that they should be able to access the event recorder that's in the locomotive, which was in the back in the train. They have not yet, as Deborah reported, been able to access the event recorder in the front car, the controlling car of the train. It's too dangerous to get in there, right now.
BURNETT: So Brian, let me just ask you, what this -- the injuries that you described are gruesome. I mean, it is just - it's just horrific, and you think about people just going to work. Some of what you were describing was very hard to hear. How are they able to get out of the train? When you see the condition that's in there, not even able to get into that first car yet. How are people able to get out?
TODD: When you see some of these pictures, Erin, you really wonder how they could have gotten out of that. You know, many of them said that they had to crawl out windows, some of them were in the vestibule between, you know, between cars and were kind of tossed around. There may have been an opening there that some of them were able to get out through. And some of them said they were first helped by first responders who got there very quickly, Erin. So it is really is incredible that so many people were able to get out with injuries, and that as of now, we only have one fatality.
BURNETT: All right. Thank you very much, Brian Todd. Well, the train was carrying 250 passengers, among them, Ross Bower. He was on his way to New York. He was going to work, and Ross, first, I'm so glad you're OK. As I said, just gruesome and horrible to hear about what happened on the train. The injuries that others are enduring tonight. What happened as you experienced it, when that train pulled into the station, when it derailed?
[19:07:51] ROSS BOWER, PASSENGER OF CRASHED TRAIN: Yeah, so we were pulling into the station, everything felt normal and we're going at, you know, a decent rate of speed and then, we just didn't stop. There was a very sudden jolt, you know, we got jolted out of our seats. There was a very loud crash and explosion outside. I wasn't sure what it was, at first. And, you know, everyone was just kind of in stunned silence, you know, sitting there and wondering what had just happened.
BURNETT: And when you talk about a decent rate of speed, I know obviously the crucial part of this investigation is going to be, did the train slow at all? Did you feel any slowing? Did anything seem strange to you in the second or the millisecond before impact?
BOWER: Yeah, I mean, you know, the speed seemed normal, but, you know, as we got closer, you know -- I didn't really realize it at the time, but, you know, it did not slow down at all and, you know, it was -- it was -- you know, it's a very sudden Jolt,there was no warning.
BURNETT: Right. So, you know, after I got s you took some pictures of the crash, just to give people a sense of what happened. I mean, the roof collapsed, you were able to see that as you were getting out. There's blood on the ground. What more did you see here, in these first moments, after the crash?
BOWER: Right. So, you know, after we got off the train, everyone was kind of checking on each other, making sure everyone was OK, you know, helping people off. You know, as we got off, we were right behind the trains that were heavily impacted. So, you know, we could see the whole platform have been destroyed, people were climbing out of the emergency exits. You know, we actually made our way across the adjacent tracks, onto their platform, Maria, and that he second picture, you can see that, you know, the entire roof had collapsed and, you know, you could see people being pulled out and being tended too by the police that were already on the scene.
BURNETT: All right. Well, Ross, thank you very for coming on and talking to us and we're sure glad that you are OK. Thank you. Outrun now, albert Albert Gil, former New Jersey Transit Conductor, who worked on this train line, so you know exactly the situation, coming into the station. You know the -- you know the entire setup here. You heard Ross say, he didn't feel any braking at all, not something, you know, you notice at the moment but then he said, he didn't see and feel that at any time. How do you explain this at this point?
[19:09:57] ALBERT GIL, FORMER NEW JERSEY TRANSIT CONDUCTOR: You can't explain it because at the end, when that train is coming into that depot, track five, he should be coming in at restricted speed, not exceeding five miles an hour. Has -- he should have the bell ringing?
BURNETT: Yeah.
GIL: Indicating to the passengers. There might be passengers waiting to get on the next train to go back out, that there's a train coming in. So, there should be no reason why the train should not be slowing down instead of speeding up or continuing the pace that it was in. BURNETT: And now anything that had happened suddenly to that engineer, something that just happened to him in that -- in that millisecond, and he was incapacitated, would there be anything that would enable that train to stop other than the impact?
GIL: There is -- there is -- there is a system in place, at New Jersey Transit, where if the plane -- if the train, excuse me, goes into penalty. I mean, you're exceeding the restricted -- the speed, then it will shut it down. This gives you an opportunity to acknowledge, you know, be a bell that rings in the cab, telling you, hey, you're going too fast. You have a chance to acknowledge that. If you don't acknowledge that, it will shut you down, the computer will shut you down. But the way this train came in, be -- I've worked this train a few times and you go through an interlock, as soon as you go through that interlock, and you approach that depot, one, if something happened to that engineer.
BURNETT: There wouldn't be time.
GIL: There wouldn't be time. There wouldn't be time to stop that train.
BURNETT: Yeah. Right.
GIL: It, you know -- it just -- there wouldn't be.
BURNETT: All right. Well, Albert, thank you very much. I appreciate your time. Of course, the investigation ongoing, we do not yet know the reason why, we know the engineer is out of the hospital and cooperating with investigators tonight. OUTFRONT next, is Chris Christie about to take over debate prep for Donald Trump? Plus, Trump's lies and conspiracy theories. How many did he tell in just one rally? And Jeanne Moos, on the latest, in a long line of SNL's Donald Trump's.
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[19:15:24] BURNETT: breaking news tonight, a new tactic from the Trump campaign. Advisers unhappy with Trump's debate prep, are now considering having Chris Christie take over. A source telling CNN that the New Jersey Governor, a long time Trump friend, is one of the few in Trump's inner circle, who has always been straight with him. The hope that Christie could help Trump avoid repeating some of the same mistakes from Monday's debate. Jim Acosta, is OUTFRONT.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Venezuela, you are the new Miss Universe.
[19:15:51] JIM ACOSTA, SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT FOR CNN: Still no apologies from Donald Trump, in response to allegations, he called former Miss Universe, Alicia Machado, Miss Piggy, after she gained weight back in the 90s.
DONALD TRUMP, REPUBLICAN PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I'm not going to say anything. I couldn't care less. But, if somebody I don't know, don't know certainly very well, I saved your job because they wanted to fire her for putting on so much weight, and it is a beauty contest, you know, I mean, say what you want. But I mean, they know what they're getting into, it's a beauty contest.
ACOSTA: Instead of expressing regret for the saga, mocked on the cover of this week's New Yorker, the Trump campaign is going on the offensive, zeroing in on Hillary and Bill Clinton's marital troubles, when he was in the White House.
KELLYANNE CONWAY, TRUMP'S CAMPAIGN MANAGER: It's fair game to think about how Hillary Clinton treated those women after the fact.
ACOSTA: In Trump Campaign talking points, obtained by CNN surrogates for the GOP nominee, are urged to dredge up Bill Clinton's past affairs, "Why are we not hearing from Monica Lewinsky, who started an anti-bullying foundation because of how she was treated by the Clinton machine," reads one of the talking points, a line of attack echoed by Trump's son, Eric, on Sean Hannity's radio show..
ERIC TRUMP, DONALD TRUMP'S SON: It's amazing when you hear her talk about sexism and these various claims, which are ridiculous, aside from obviously Bill, her husband being maybe the worst that's ever lived.
HILLARY CLINTON: I'm not sitting here, like some little woman standing by my man like Tammy Wynette.
ACOSTA: And a sign the election is getting nastier than ever, the Trump Campaign accuses Hillary Clinton of enabling her husband's behavior, pointing to how she handled the scandals.
CLINTON: The great story here, for anybody willing to find it and write about it and explain it, is this vast right-wing conspiracy that has been conspiring against my husband since the day he announced for president.
ACOSTA: On her day campaign plane, Clinton declined to engage.
CLINTON: No. Look, he can say whatever he wants to say, as we all know, we have seen it in real-time over the last many months.
ACOSTA: Trump who's also had his share of affairs, is facing more questions over his treatment of women. Los Angeles Times unearthed court documents that show some of Trump's former employees claimed he hired and fired female employees based on their looks. A director of catering is quoted saying, "I have witnessed Donald Trump tell managers many times, while he was visiting the club, that restaurant hostesses were not pretty enough, and that they should be fired and replaced with more attractive women." Not true, says the Trump organization, adding in a statement, "The allegations in the lawsuit were meritless. We do not engage in discrimination of any kind." The Trump campaign insists the GOP nominee has been a champion of women. He was only trying to help the Miss Universe at the center of this latest Trump controversy.
CONWAY: He gave that particular woman, a second chance. The company involved, wanted her terminated.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He's too good. He's too good.
CONWAY: Hold on. And that is just the truth. Hold on.
ACOSTA: The top Trump surrogate, Newt Gingrich, continued to pile on the attacks.
NEWT GINGRICH, AMERICAN POLITICAL CONSULTANT: You're not supposed to gain 60 pounds during the year of your Miss Universe.
ACOSTA: Now, as for those talking points, instructing Trump's surrogates to go after Bill Clinton's personal life, the Clinton campaign put out a statement saying that, that would be a mistake, that would backfire, but guess who agrees with that advice? Erin, there are Republican lawmakers on Capitol Hill, who support Donald Trump, who told us earlier today that the Trump campaign should not go there, Erin.
BURNETT: All right. Jim, thank you very much. And OUTFRONT Tonight, Trump's supporter, Betsy McCaughey, the former Lieutenant Governor of New York, Clinton supporter, Maria Cardona, whose firm currently does work for a Pro-Clinton super PAC, Mark Preston, our executive editor of CNN politics, and Patrick Healy, political correspondent for New York Times.
BURNETT: Betsy, let me start with you with what Jim just said. Trump supporters in congress telling CNN, don't go there. It isn't a smart move.
[19:19:56] BETSY MCCAUGHEY, FORMER LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR OF NEW YORK: Well, I understand that viewpoint, and then I largely agree with it, because after all, the Trump campaign would like to keep this contest on the issues. We have a record number of unemployed people who have given up looking for work. And we have expanded terrorist threats not only abroad, but right here at home. But Mrs. Clinton appears to want to shift the issue in this campaign to the treatment of women. And if she does that, as she's struggling to do, it's certainly fair to ask how she treats women. So -- and that isn't the issue, not Bill Clinton's extramarital affairs. I'd like to just finish here, and point out that even though now, Mrs. Clinton has taken a very modern view and said any woman who was -- claims to be sexually mistreated, should be believed. Back then, she labeled those women, bimbos and did bully them.
[19:20:22] MARIA CARDONA, CLINTON SUPPORTER: You know, Hillary Clinton would love for this to be about the issues. This is why she is out there talking about how she wants to make the greatest investment in jobs since World War II. She wants to improve healthcare, she's talking about college affordability. But the treatment of women, I'm sorry, is a big issue, when women are 53 percent of the electorate, and you have somebody who was vying to be commander-in-chief, who has debased and demean women all of -- all of his life, and this is a good example of that? I think it is absolutely a fair issue to bring up. Now, if the Clinton campaign wants to go there with an issue that had nothing to do with Hillary Clinton, where she was a victim herself, voters are going to smell the putrid stench of desperation, and it's going to underscore how this temperamentally unfit, loose-lipped, shoot from the hip, demeaning, defrauding, debasing--
(CROSSTALK)
BURNETT: (INAUDIBLE) on the issue of Hillary Clinton, brings up what he said to a beauty queen. She says -- he said, Miss Piggy -- he admits that he said that she was too heavy. OK. Is that equivalent to bringing up Hillary Clinton's husband's infidelities?
[19:21:28] MARK PRESTON, EXECUTIVE EDITOR OF CNN: Well, let me say this. I think that it's a politically stupid move by Donald Trump to go after Hillary Clinton through her husband, because it does make her the victim, because it is his infidelities that we're talking about. I mean, if there are some other issues that you want to deal with, of how Hillary Clinton perhaps treated some people or treated some women, then perhaps that is fair game, but that's not how it is. Donald Trump is being very crass in how he's attacking this, and I just don't think it's very smart in how he's doing it, in his cadence and where he does it, but he's feeding off of it.
BURNETT: Patrick?
[19:22:02] PATRICK HEALY, POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT FOR NEW YORK TIMES: And, you know, in November, it's only going to be Donald Trump's name and Hillary Clinton's name on the ballot. So, bringing in Bill Clinton, who frankly brings up a lot of good memories for people who remember in swing -- key Battleground States in Ohio and North Carolina, what the economy was like in the 90s. They're not honestly going to be dwelling on, and let's be honest, it gets pretty complicated when you get into what did Hillary Clinton do about Gennifer Flowers in 1992 when a lot of people weren't born yet.
BURNETT: Right.
HEALY: But the point is that, if there's going to be a fight over character, Hillary Clinton, very much feels, and I think there's a point for undecided women voters, with a lot better going after Donald Trump's character than going off of the character of a guy who is not even on the ballot.
MCCAUGHEY: She was very vulnerable because ever since she was first lady, there have been countless documentaries and articles about how shabbily she treats the little people. For example, Ron Kessler, New York Times Best Seller who's written several books about the CIA and the FBI, wrote a book about the first family and how often --
(CROSSTALK)
CARDONA: Absolutely, there's no credibility there.
HEALY: It doesn't have the impact, though. At this - at this stage of the game, you're absolutely right about the documentaries --
MCCAUGHEY: Yes.
HEALY: I'm not -- I'm just -- I'm just saying that we have not seen in her senate race in 2000, in 2006 in 2008, you know, even this time around --
MCCAUGHEY: Well, you're talking about 20 years ago with the -
HEALY: -- it hasn't have that kind of impact.
MCCAUGHEY: -- with the beauty contest as well. We're both talking about the same period of time. But I'd like to raise another issue about this treatment of women, and that is the ad that she has out, in which she depicts young girls looking into the mirror very uncomfortably, very unhappily about their own body image, and then she overlays it with Donald Trump's words and --
CARDONA: Donald Trump's words.
MCCAUGHEY: I'm a mother and grandmother, and my family has gone through anguish over eating disorders. I've sat at the bedside of a child, near death, from eating disorders. And so many families across this country, mothers like me, have gone to doctors, read articles, tried to figure out what's going wrong, and we know it's not Donald Trump, so what we see--
(CROSSTALK)
CARDONA: -- Miss Universe, that she allegedly say Donald Trump drove her into eating disorder because of his comment.
MCCAUGHEY: She actually, according to other reports, may have had it before. I'm not going -- I don't want to tell you --
(CROSSTALK)
MCCAUGHEY: -- these ads are unfairly exploiting --
(CROSSTALK)
CARDONA: These ads are incredibly compelling. As a mother of a nine- year-old Latina daughter, when I hear Donald Trump, debasing women, the way that he has done, debasing Latino immigrants, the way that he has done it, this kind of ad is incredibly compelling because we don't want this kind of role model in the White House, when you're trying to raise children to treat women with respect, to treat themselves with respect, and when they can say, "But mama, the President of the United States says and does these things," --
PRESTON: Betsy, he does open his (INAUDIBLE)
CARDONA: -- that is completely unacceptable. PRESTON: Betsy, Betsy, Betsy, you've said quite a bit.
CARDONA: No, no. I blame Donald Trump for this.
(CROSSTALK)
BURNETT: Betsy, Betsy, you had your piece. Mark, you get the final word about this.
PRESTON: Listen, the bottom line is, it's an - it's an incredibly compelling ad. Donald Trump had said pretty --
MCCAUGHEY: It's a dishonest ad.
PRESTON: -- and said pretty nasty things.
(CROSSTALK)
PRESTON: He said some pretty nasty things.
(CROSSTALK)
MCCAUGHEY: Half the families would suffer --
(CROSSTALK)
BURNETT: OK. Hold on.
HEALY: Kim Kardashian is pregnant and you're talking about Hollywood. He mocked her about getting -- how she's looking a little bit big. But the beauty contestant, she said that she, you know, he pushed her into the kind of eating disorders that you're talking about. Well, we haven't seen as any kind of Donald's --
MCCAUGHEY: There's no (INAUDIBLE)
PRESTON: He said himself, it's a beauty contest --
(CROSSTALK)
BURNETT: All right. You're staying with us. Next, lies and conspiracy theories. How many false statements did Trump make at just one rally? And third-party candidate, Gary Johnson, doubling down on his answer to what seems to be a pretty simple question.
CHRIS MATTHEWS, MSNBC HOST: Name one foreign leader that you respect and look up to?
GARY JOHNSON, LIBERTARIAN PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I guess I'm having an Aleppo moment in former President of Mexico.
MATTHEWS: But I'm giving you the whole world.
JOHNSON: I know.
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[19:29:56] BURNETT: Tonight, Donald Trump still insisting he won the debate. His proof, online surveys in which people can vote multiple times.
TRUMP: And then during the debate the other night, where every single online polls said we won, which is great, every single online polls.
BURNETT: In reality, CNN's scientific post-debate poll showed 62 percent of voters believed Hillary Clinton won the debate. Trump also made the claim again in a rally last night and so, we decided to take a closer look at that rally and everything he said. That was the rally in Wisconsin. It lasted just over 40 minutes last night but his time on stage was filled with things that were not true.
Sara Sidner is OUTFRONT.
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TRUMP: Early voting is already under way, right?
SARA SIDNER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The latest conspiracy theory that Donald Trump is spreading?
TRUMP: You have to knock on those doors. You have to pick up the phone. You have to get all your friends out.
You have to watch what's going on because this is a dirty business. This is a very, very dirty business. You know what I mean. What's going on.
SIDNER: Dirty business, suggesting that early voting is corrupt or rigged. The same thing he said about the entire political system. The nonpartisan Legal Women voters have this to say about the early voting process.
(on camera): Is there an instance you can recall that shows early voting is fraught with fraud?
MARILU GEUVARA, LEAGUE OF WOMEN VOTERS: No. The -- has not been alerted that the process of early voting is one that is fraudulent. All the opposite. We understand that early voting is a common sense option for voters, especially now with our busy lives.
SIDNER: The early voting stance wasn't the only misleading statement that Trump used to fire up the crowd.
TRUMP: I don't think so African Americans are going to come out and vote for Clinton. They are too smart, and they know they're being used. They know it. They also know that she'll do nothing for them once the election is over. She never does. And that will never, ever change. Same thing goes for Hispanic voters. They are tired of being use by people like Hillary Clinton that have no intention of doing anything for them once the election is over, 58 percent of African American youth are not working.
SIDNER: The problem is his number includes people who may not even be looking for a job, like high school students. According to the Bureau of Labor Statistic, the unemployment rate for black youths stands at 19.2 percent. About a third of what Trump cited. And then there is this assertion by Trump.
TRUMP: The new post debate poll that just came out. The Google poll, has us leading Hillary Clinton by two points nationwide. And that's despite the fact that Google's search engine was suppressing the bad news about Hillary Clinton. How about that? How about that.
SIDNER: The original source of that information is pop culture site SourceFed. $
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thanks to the help of our editor, Spencer Reid, SourceFed has discovered that Google has been actively altering search recommendations in favor of Hillary Clinton's campaign.
SIDNER: Also not true.
SourceFed theory has been debunked by search engine experts, essentially because SourceFed conclusion was based on a faulty understanding of how Google's auto complete feature works.
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SIDNER: None of that stopping Mr. Trump from repeating misinformation to his supporters. But he did get one thing right. He talked about the fact that America had a higher crime rate. Indeed murder rate is up 10 percent, according to government statistics.
And I do want to mention this, here in California, there is a sweeping new law the governor just signed into law and that is going to make it far easier for people to vote by mail and harder to vote in person. That law gets rid of funding for thousands of local polling places, Erin.
BURNETT: All right. Thank you very much, Sara Sidner.
And OUTFRONT now, David Gergen, former adviser to four presidents. Mark Preston and Patrick Healy are also back with me.
But, David, let me start with you because you just saw Sara's piece reporting on just one rally. "The New York Times" has reported Trump lied 31 different times within one week and a lot of his lies are very blatant. You know, I didn't say this when there's a sound bite that shows he very clearly did. It's a very black and white situation.
But the latest CNN poll shows half of all registered voters trust Trump and more than Hillary Clinton. It is not even close. He beats her by 15 points, David. DAVID GERGEN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Listen, he gets away with
it again and again and again. I must tell you, I think it is a sign not only that he is blatantly doesn't care but I think it is also a sign -- I hate to say this, but there are just a lot of people in this country who think that Hillary Clinton is corrupt. And they are just deeply into that school and it doesn't make any difference what Donald Trump says.
They still want change. They don't want Hillary and they're willing to vote for him. And I think that, you know, basically, his lies don't add up or don't amount to as much as her corruption.
[19:35:04] I think that is absolutely a false charge and they go ahead, "lock her up, lock her up", which is outrageous but there we have it. I mean, it's a state of play in the election campaign so far.
BURNETT: And, Patrick, when it comes to the debate, Donald Trump often and perhaps this is part of his appeal to some, he will construct a reality and then lit become so because he says it. And he did this often during the debate primaries, at the primary debates, right? He would say he won on the online polls and lo and behold it would shake public opinion. He's doing it again now. The scientific polls show it's not true, but he's doing it again.
HEALY: Absolutely. It is the showman part of him. I mean, there is a reason with "The Apprentice" that people would come back week after week after week. A showman knows how to get you eating out of their hands and believing that you know exactly throw great the greatest company in the world.
For instance, he very much believes, Erin, that the debate went really well for him. He felt like those first 30 minutes were great and then the last 60 minutes, it was Lester and Hillary Clinton, you know, who were taking things off.
And from his point of view, nothing gulls him more than this lie stuff he feels that the media is pushing. But as he looks towards the next debate, you know, his view what he really wants to prepare for is how to bring up these issues like Benghazi and the Clinton family foundation that, you know, the moderator might not bring up. And not worry so much about --
BURNETT: -- having to respond everything, right?
(CROSSTALK)
HEALY: I'm going to say this, I remember interviewing Donald Trump in September of 2015. And he said himself that he felt the trust issue was getting so baked in with Hillary Clinton because she couldn't come up with an answer all that summer on the e-mail question to diffuse it. And he really felt -- and I think we're actually seeing this as true -- is that he can say things that are incorrect, he can lie, he can spread the falsehoods. But for a lot of people, they decided a year ago they just didn't buy it. BURNETT: So when it comes to this next debate, Mark. Obviously,
Chris Christie is possibly going to be involved. He was on CNN today earlier. He didn't rule it out. But it's unclear if it's really going to happen.
He was, of course, the person that took down Marco Rubio. When Marco Rubio kept saying the same line about Barack Obama as a crutch even when it made so sense and Christie was the only person on stage who did what every viewer was thinking and called it out. Let me just remind everybody of that moment.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. MARCO RUBIO (R), FLORIDA: Under Chris Christie's governorship of New Jersey, they've been downgraded nine times in their credit right. This country already has a debt problem. We don't need to add to it by electing someone who has experience that running up and destroying the credit rating of a state.
But I would add this. Let's dispel with this fiction that Barack Obama doesn't know what he's doing. He knows exactly what he's doing.
GOV. CHRIS CHRISTIE (R), NEW JERSEY: That's what Washington, D.C. does, the drive-by shot at the beginning, with incorrect and incomplete information, and the memorized 20 second speech that is exactly what his advisors gave him.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Would that style, David Gergen, work against Clinton for Trump?
GERGEN: I don't know. It is going to be an interesting practice. Chris Christie up there. Long Trump doesn't call him Mr. Piggy, I think he'll probably have some impact. I do think Christie had some of the best blows anybody had in the debate.
So, I think he's very, very good as the counterpuncher. Whether he can get inside Hillary Clinton's head is a much, much tougher proposition, on short notice to study her work. The people who come in and rehearsed Trump has been at a long time. They have been thinking about this for weeks. People who were in those debate prep.
Chris Christie is now coming in at the last minute like a relief pitcher in the eighth or ninth inning. It's pretty hard.
BURNETT: Mark?
PRESTON: Look, the bottom line is that Chris Christie would be better than what we've seen the last time. The reason being, Chris Christie knows how to debate. He knows policy. There's few people that probably would stand up to Donald Trump and Chris Christie knows how to win in many cases.
The question is, will he actually be there? And I don't think anyone at this table, and I'm not sure if David would believe this either, that Donald Trump is going to listen to anybody.
BURNETT: Well, of course, I was talking to someone today who knows Donald Trump said the biggest frustration is he is not listening to the people who have known him longest and even right now, he's not listening to them at all.
All right. Thanks to all of you.
And OUTFRONT next, Hillary Clinton mocking a Gary Johnson stumble.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REPORTER: Who is your favorite world leader?
HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Oh, let me think --
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: And Jeanne Moos on the many different Donald Trumps of "Saturday Night Live".
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:43:23] BURNETT: Tonight, Hillary Clinton is mocking libertarian presidential candidate Gary Johnson after a gaffe. Johnson couldn't name a foreign leader he likes. And Clinton was then asked the same question.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REPORTER: Who is your favorite foreign leader?
CLINTON: Oh let me think.
(LAUGHTER)
CLINTON: Look, I like a lot of the foreign leaders. One of my favorites is Angela Merkel, because I think she's been an extraordinarily strong leader during difficult times in Europe.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Johnson says he was having a brain freeze but it is not the first time that a lack of basic knowledge has caused an issue for him.
Suzanne Malveaux is OUTFRONT.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): When libertarian nominee Gary Johnson was asked to name any foreign leader he admired, he drew a blank.
CHRIS MATTHEWS, MSNBC HOST: Who's your favorite foreign leader?
GARY JOHNSON, LIBERTARIAN PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Who's my favorite --
MATTHEWS: Just name any one of the continents, any country, name one foreign leader that you respect and look up to. Anybody.
JOHNSON: I guess I'm having an Aleppo moment in the former president of Mexico.
MATTHEWS: But I'm giving you to whole world.
JOHNSON: I know, I know.
MALVEAUX: Running mate Bill Weld tried to rescue him.
JOHNSON: I'm having a brain --
(CROSSTALK)
MATTHEWS: Well, name anybody.
BILL WELD, LIBERTARIAN VICE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Fox.
MATTHEWS: Who is your favorite foreign leader? Get him off the hook.
MALVEAUX: Johnson's campaign manager responding to the moment in a Facebook post, writing, "This is gotcha-ism at its finest".
Johnson later tweeted out a new spin on it, saying, "It's been almost 24 hours and I still can't come up with a foreign leader I look up to."
This latest stumble comes month after this -- Johnson's original Aleppo moment.
MIKE BARNICLE, MSNBC: What would you do, if you were elected, about Aleppo?
[19:45:02] JOHNSON: About --
BARNICLE: Aleppo.
JOHNSON: And what is Aleppo?
BARNICLE: You're kidding.
JOHNSON: No.
MALVEAUX: The slip prompted some to say Johnson had disqualified himself from becoming president.
JOY BEHAR, "THE VIEW" HOST: I think it's a disqualifying statement, frankly.
JOHNSON: And fair enough. And fair enough. Yes.
BEHAR: OK.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: So, will you get out of the race now?
JOHNSON: No.
(LAUGHTER)
MALVEAUX: And even on domestic policy, Johnson has gotten his facts confused. In response to the New York and New Jersey bombings and the stabbings in a mall in Minnesota --
JOHNSON: Well, first of all, just grateful that nobody got hurt.
MALVEAUX: Twenty-nine people were injured in the bombings, nine in the stabbings. Johnson later tweeted he misspoke.
And then there was this bizarre moment in an interview with MSNBC.
JOHNSON: (INAUDIBLE) the whole debate and not say anything (INAUDIBLE).
MALVEAUX: Meanwhile, Johnson is polling at 8 percent in CNN's poll of polls, and even higher in some key swing states. He's especially doing well with millennials, a critical voting bloc the Clinton campaign desperately needs.
MICHELLE OBAMA, FIRST LADY: If you vote for someone other than Hillary or if you don't vote at all, then you are helping to elect Hillary's opponent. And the stakes are far too high to take that chance.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MALVEAUX: Despite Johnson's latest gaffe, there is a new endorsement tonight for Johnson from "The Detroit News". The first time in its 143-year history that the paper has not chosen a Republican. This is important to note because the CNN's ORC poll shows that in the state of Colorado, essentially for Hillary Clinton to win, with Gary Johnson in the race, Trump leads 42 percent to Clinton's 41 percent, with Johnson getting 13 percent support. And with Johnson out of the running, Clinton beats Trump with 49 percent to his 47 percent.
Now, these spreads are in the margin of error, but these polls are worrisome for both candidates -- Erin.
BURNETT: All right. Suzanne, thank you very much.
And OUTFRONT next: two prominent officials say Donald Trump is fit to be president. One of them is OUTFRONT, my guest next.
And Jeanne Moos for debate prep on SNL's Hillary and Donald.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:50:46] BURNETT: Tonight, former intelligence officials slamming Donald Trump. Michael Vickers, once under secretary of defense for intelligence, and Mike Morell, former deputy director of the CIA say Trump is unfit, unserious and unprepared on national security.
Michael Vickers is OUTFRONT tonight. He's advising Hillary Clinton on national security tonight.
And, Mike, thank you so much for your time.
So, you say Donald Trump is unfit to be president of the United States and that this debate this week is proof. Why? What's the proof?
MICHAEL VICKERS, FORMER UNDERSECRETARY OF DEFENSE FOR INTEL; ENDORSED CLINTON: Well, I've had a long career in national security as a Green Beret, and CIA operations officer and national security policy maker. And never in my lifetime have I seen a nominee of a major party as unfit or as unprepared as Donald Trump is.
For example, I had oversight of policy for our nuclear deterrent during the second term of President Bush and our nuclear weapons employment policy is not something that one should talk flippantly or incoherently as Mr. Trump did in Monday night's debate. His Russia policy really seems aimed at making Russia great rather than America great. He's talked about considering lifting sanction on Russia, recognizing they are the biggest land grab in Europe since the Second World War, their annexation of Crimea. He seemed in denial about Russian cyberattacks on the United States.
And said he would leave Syria, essentially, to Russia, not only doing Russia's bidding but also Iran's. And ISIL the same, he's had a policy that would play right into ISIL's hands.
What is most troubling to me is when ISIL's leadership and Russia's leadership both that Mr. Trump would be great for them. That would really alarm Americans.
BURNETT: So, let me ask you, though, on some things, Donald Trump will say things complete highway out of the box and some will criticize him in the national security committee. One of those things is NATO, right? He said it's obsolete. He said he could completely change it. He has been criticized for that, as you know.
But, you know, when you look at it, maybe there is something to it, right? The U.S. splits more of the budget than anyone else. President Obama recently told "The Atlantic Magazine" that some European allies are free riders, which is the same term Trump has used.
Could his willingness to challenge the stats quo, the accepted norm, to say, wait a minute, I know we think NATO should be here forever, but maybe it's really broken. Could that be a good thing?
VICKERS: Well, we try to shore up our alliances. And there is always work to do, but NATO has really kept the peace in Europe since the Second World War. And Mr. Trump seems to treat our alliances and partnerships, which is really a tremendous source of America's advantage as a protection racket, something that if you pay, you might get protection, but otherwise you don't -- seemingly ignorant of the fact that those alliances have served U.S. interest by keeping peace and stability in critical regions, in East Asia and in Europe.
BURNETT: All right. Well, Mike Vickers, thank you very much. I appreciate your time very much. Undersecretary of defense, as we said, for intelligence speaking out against Donald Trump.
OUTFRONT next, Jeanne Moos on this will be this season's Donald on "SNL".
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:57:47] BURNETT: Alec Baldwin on the art of impersonation. Here's Jeanne Moos.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JEANN MOOS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Expect Alec Baldwin to come down with the case of the sniffles Saturday night as he begins his gig opposite Kate McKinnon as "SNL's" new Donald Trump. Even if he's no fan of the Donald's.
ALEC BALDWIN, ACTOR: We don't really want a president who looks like he's been dipped in movie popcorn butter.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The tangerine tornado.
MOOS: Baldwin follows impersonators like Phil Hartman and Darrell Hammond.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Love they neighbor as thyself and like a good neighbor, State Farm is there.
MOOS: Baldwin has been there 16 times but never played Trump. We've seen him everyone from Tony Bennett to a guy named Pete Sweaty (ph) selling balls of treats.
BALDWIN: No one can resist my sweaty balls.
MOOS: But will Baldwin have a ball with Kate McKinnon?
KATE MCKINNON, ACTRESS: All anyone wants to talk about is Donald Trump.
CLINTON: Donald Trump? Isn't he the one that's like eh, you're all losers?
MOOS: But Donald himself is no stranger to SNL, dancing with chickens.
Advertising Trumps House of Wings in 2004 and the hotline bling last year.
This isn't the first time "SNL" hired someone to play a politician during an election year.
SARAH PALIN (R), FORMER ALASKA GOVERNOR: You can actually see Russia from land here in Alaska. MOOS: Tina Fey twisted that line.
TINA FEY, ACTRESS: And I can see Russia from my house.
MOOS: How deeply can impersonations infiltrate our minds.
Who said I can see Russia from my house?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sarah Palin.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sarah Palin.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, that was Palin.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Sarah Palin.
MOOS: Tina Fey actually.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Tina Fey? She didn't say that.
MOOS: Will Alec Baldwin's lines be mistaken for Trumps? Mimicking the Donald is nothing to act.
Jeanne Moos, CNN New York.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BURNETT: Thank you so much for joining us.
And don't forget, you can watch OUTFRONT anytime, anywhere on CNN Go.
"AC360" with Anderson starts right now.
