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Erin Burnett Outfront
Report: Trump Jr. Exchanged Messages With WikiLeaks During The Campaign; Calls For Trump Jr. Subpoena After Report He Messaged WikiLeaks; Woman Accused Moore of Sexual Assault When She Was 16. Aired 7-8p ET
Aired November 13, 2017 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[19:00:00] WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: -- in the Situation Room. Erin Burnett OutFront starts right now.
ERIN BURNETT, CNN ANCHOR: OutFront next, breaking news. A new bombshell report shows numerous messages between Donald Trump Jr. and WikiLeaks. The same WikiLeaks the CIA says is an agent of Vladimir Putin.
Plus, a new Roy Moore accuser speaking out. She was 16 at the time, says he physically assaulted her. He even signed year book using the word "love". Does this take the story to a new level?
And President Trump wrapping up his big overseas trip. Not one word though about the massacres, gang rapes and babies being burned that is happening in one crucial country in Asia.
Let's go OutFront.
And good evening, I'm Erin Burnett. OutFront this evening, the breaking news. A bombshell report showing private messages exchanged between Donald Trump Jr. and WikiLeaks during the 2016 presidential campaign. The Atlantic magazine reporting that Trump Jr. was actively solicited by the organization.
A long trail of messages from September 2016 until July of this year, revelations showing numerous exchanges on Twitter, with WikiLeaks offering up damaging information on Hillary Clinton and her campaign. Here's a WikiLeaks message, just one of them to Trump Jr. on October 3, 2016.
"Hiya", writes WikiLeaks. "It'd be great if you guys could comment on/push this story."
Now the story happened to be a quote from Clinton about wanting to, quote, just drone WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange. Trump Jr. responded, quote, already did that earlier today. And candidate Trump on the trail in the days just after that urged listeners to check out WikiLeaks.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: WikiLeaks is amazing. The stuff just coming out.
This WikiLeaks stiff is unbelievable. It tells you the inner heart. You got to read it.
WikiLeaks, I love WikiLeaks.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Then, in a follow up message on October 12th, WikiLeaks again messaging Donald Trump Jr., writing in part, quote, strongly suggest your dad tweets this link if he mentions us. There's many great stories the press are missing and we're sure some of your followers will find it.
Now, just 15 minutes later, Donald Trump himself fired off this tweet, echoing WikiLeaks language, quote, very little pickup by the dishonest media. Incredible information provided by WikiLeaks. So dishonest, rigged system.
By the way, that link that WikiLeaks had wanted to be tweeted out. Donald Trump Jr. did tweet it out.
And Julian Assange tonight is tweeting a response to the Atlantic report, saying, quote, I cannot confirm the alleged direct messages from at Donald J. Trump Jr. to WikiLeaks. WikiLeaks does not keep such records and the Atlantic's presentation is edited and clearly does not have the full context.
Let's be clear though about why these messages between Trump Jr. and WikiLeaks are so relevant in the Russia investigation. Because of this. Here's the CIA director, Trump's own CIA director, the guy he picked, OK, Mike Pompeo. Here's what he says about WikiLeaks.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MIKE POMPEO, CIA DIRECTOR: It's time to call out WikiLeaks for what it really is. A non-state hostile intelligence service often embedded by state actors like Russia.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: That's Trump's own CIA director saying that WikiLeaks, Julian Assange's WikiLeaks is an agent of the Russian Government of Vladimir Putin.
Evan Perez is OutFront tonight to begin our coverage. And Evan, what more can you tell us about these messages between Donald Trump Jr. and WikiLeaks?
EVAN PEREZ, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Erin, there's a lot we don't know about the message including -- these messages including the context. There's a lot more -- obviously, the congressional committees and the special counsel have been given that probably give more context of how these messages were sent. But let's -- I think we can make sure that people understand that this isn't just one isolated example of Donald Trump Jr. trying to interact with people who allegedly had dirt on Hillary Clinton.
Obviously, we know about the trump -- the Trump Tower meeting in -- last summer of 2016 in which he was actively engaging with someone who was posing as a Russian who wanted to give dirt on Hillary Clinton. So, I think when you put it all in context, again, with not only these messages, these direct messages from WikiLeaks along with that, and other items that the special counsel and the congressional committees have.
I think what you're beginning to see is why there is so much concern about possible collusion, possible coordination between the Trump campaign. People associated in the Trump campaign and the Russians. This is why there was so much alarm in the Intelligence Community, in the FBI about what was happening, and trying to understand exactly what was happening, and why we have this investigation that is still ongoing, Erin.
BURNETT: All right, thank you very much, Evan. I appreciate it.
And OutFront now, former White House counsel for President Richard Nixon, John Dean, our Senior Political Analyst Mark Preston, and former adviser to four presidents including Nixon and Clinton, David Gergen.
So John, let me start with you.
[19:05:01] This news, Donald Trump Jr. in contact with WikiLeaks about damaging information about Hillary Clinton. Does it change anything?
JOHN DEAN, FORMER NIXON WHITE HOUSE COUNSEL: Well, my first reaction in reading the story was exactly what Pompeo later said. What kind of organization this was that Donald Trump Jr. was dancing with. I think this shows the skeleton of some kind of conspiracy. He's agreeing to play with them and he does.
We don't have the complete story, but at no point does he rebuff them, does he not want to take part either in their activities. It's just the opposite.
BURNETT: So I want to go to a few of these, one of which I mentioned at the top of the program and then a couple I have not. David, let me start with one here WikiLeaks telling Don Jr. that they have just released a trove of e-mails from Clinton's campaign manager John Podesta, right. So they message him to say, this has just come out. And in that, is when WikiLeaks asked Donald Trump Jr. to tweet to his followers a link to that searchable database of anti-Clinton stories.
So, the exchange in part reads, WikiLeaks says, "There's many stories the press are missing." Fifteen minutes later as I pointed out, Donald Trump himself tweets a very little pickup by the dishonest media. Incredible information provided by WikiLeaks.
So, you have Donald Trump Jr. getting this message, 15 minutes later, Donald Trump himself sending that tweet out. Could that timing, David, be a coincidence? DAVID GERGEN, FORMER PRESIDENTIAL ADVISER: No. No, of course. I think what we're seeing is a pattern that is minimized and extremely imprudent but it's a pattern that includes conversations with the president. There's word that coming in through Donald Jr., it goes up the chain to the president.
And we're seeing this somehow and a couple of instances. So I think that the president knows -- has known a lot about these conversations with the Russian for a long time. That contradict the whole notion that he's put out there that there were no contacts.
Now, what we don't know is whether in fact as John Dean says this is a skeleton, and whether in fact what these exchanges are illegal. There's a different between being imprudent and being illegal.
And on the face of it, I'm not sure I see the lines being crossed into illegality. I don't see that but we don't have the whole pattern. We don't -- you know, we need the rest of the skeleton in effect and the other materia. And we're still hanging here.
So it's painful but things are adding up to a chain that is like very unhealthy, and very suspicious.
BURNETT: And certainly, Mark Preston, this particular chain that we're talking about here, does lead to Donald Trump himself, right? There's his son getting the message and 15 minutes later, there is -- the stuff he was saying publicly on the campaign trail about WikiLeaks.
In this case, it does appear to go straight to the top.
MARK PRESTON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: It certainly does, you know, and forgive me, but I think this is might be the first instance where we actually have the strongest connection or potential connection right now to Donald Trump himself when it comes to WikiLeaks, and its collusion -- WikiLeaks' collusion not with the Russians, now. I'm not saying that Donald Trump himself was colluding with the Russians, we'll have to see what the investigators say, but this is very damning. There's no doubt about that.
Timing is everything and 15 minutes, you have to wonder, was Donald Trump Jr. with his father at the time when he got that message. Maybe he just showed it to him what was on his phone and he said, give it to me, let me tweet that out.
And to me, if that is what happened, that seems very likely.
BURNETT: It does. I mean, and then, in that tweet, John, of course there was the link to the searchable database of anti-Clinton stories. Two days later -- so, WikiLeaks have sent that to Donald Jr. Two days later, he sends out a tweet with that link, and in it he says, quote, for those who have the time to read all about the corruption and hypocrisy, all the WikiLeaks e-mails are right here, and give their suggested link.
So, that -- the fact, John, that he tweeted out the specific link that WikiLeaks asked him to tweet out, that was a link to anti-Clinton stories. Does that to you look like a crime?
DEAN: Well, it's hard to go that far at this point, there's certainly an indication of odd behavior. Collusive behavior is a good broad word, whether it's actually a conspiracy which an agreement to commit an illegal act by two or more people, and one of them doing so, is a far distance at this point. We just -- we have bread crumbs if you will that are leading us in that direction now.
BURNETT: Now, David, later that same month, here's a new one, the Atlantic says, WikiLeaks messaged Trump Jr., quote, hey Don, we have an unusual idea. Leak us one or more of your father's tax returns.
Now, they then laid out a reason for this request which is extremely interesting and important here, David. One of the reasons that WikiLeaks said this is a good idea is quote, if we publish them, it will dramatically improve the perception of our impartiality.
So, it's important to note the Atlantic notes Trump Jr. did not respond to that. But you do have WikiLeaks --
GERGEN: These messages have a very chatty quality as if they know each other pretty well.
[19:10:05] But there's also just a -- you know, they're so clearly embed together. I mean it is so clear that the Trump -- that Donald Trump Jr. welcomes these various contacts because it will pay off, have a payoff in what he can learn about Hillary, the negative stuff into her portfolio.
Whether that amounts to a conspiracy as John Dean says, I'm not sure. I'm not sure it's a conspiracy. But, you know, they seemed -- there's just no campaign in history of which I am aware and I've been in a lot of recent campaigns that has ever been so embed with a foreign enemy, and it's just like what? What are they thinking about?
BURNETT: So Mark, you know, to that effect, Donald Trump Jr.'s lawyer in a statement to the Atlantic says, quote, we can say with confidence we have no concerns about these documents, and any questions raised about them have been easily answered in the appropriate forum.
Do you think they truly are unworried?
PRESTON: If they're not then they're foolish at this point. They've got to be worried because -- look, all we have to do is go back to what Evan Perez says, remember Donald Trump Jr. was forced into acknowledging that he held a meeting with a Russian operative or somebody connected with the Kremlin who was offering to give information about Hillary Clinton. Donald Trump Jr. now is connected to WikiLeaks right now, in conversing with them. What else has Donald Trump Jr. done?
That is the big question. I mean, this is just one or two steps, are three, four, five, six, seven more steps down the road. If I were them, I'd be concerned.
BURNETT: All right, and of course the question is, what did he do? And as we pointed out here with some of the timeline, what did his father know and condone in all of it.
Thank you both -- all of you so much.
And next, breaking news. A top Democrat demands Senate investigators issue a subpoena immediately to compel Donald Trump Jr. to testify in a public session about his communications with WikiLeaks.
Plus, Ivanka Trump selling the Republican tax plan tonight.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
IVANKA TRUMP, ADVISOR TO THE PRESIDENT: More money back in the pockets of the American workers.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: But will it?
And the stunning stories of people who escaped the brutal ethnic cleansing in Myanmar. This is an exclusive you need to see.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:15:59] BURNETT: Breaking news, tonight, calls to subpoena Donald Trump Jr. This request coming after reports Trump Jr. corresponded multiple times with WikiLeaks during the 2016 campaign. WikiLeaks which Trump's own CIA Director Mike Pompeo has said of course is an agent of Russia.
Democratic Senator Richard Blumenthal tell CNN the Senate Judiciary Committee, quote, must issue a subpoena immediately in order to get Trump Jr. to testify in a public session.
OutFront now, Democratic Senator Mark Warner of Virginia, also Ranking Member on the Senate Intelligence Committee. And Senator, I appreciate your time tonight.
SEN. MARK WARNER (D), INTELLIGENCE COMMITTEE VICE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Erin.
BURNETT: Have you seen these messages between Donald Trump Jr. and WikiLeaks? And what do you make of them?
WARNER: I've seen the story. Obviously, I can't comment on what documents the committee has or doesn't have. But if the story is true, it shows one more example of Russians or individuals affiliated with the Russians reaching out to try to make contacts with the senior folks in the Trump organization and Trump campaign to try to share information that would tilt the election one way or the other.
And we've seen this pattern, whether it's Mr. Trump Jr., whether it was the famous meeting that included Mr. Manafort, and Mr. Trump Jr., Mr. Papadopoulos who's already been convicted. There continues to be more and more of this evidence.
BURNETT: So WikiLeaks messaged Donald Trump Jr. saying they had just release a trove of e-mails from Clinton's campaign manager John Podesta. And in that message, WikiLeaks went on to tell Don Jr. and I quote, there's many great stories the press are missing.
So that was in a message between WikiLeaks and Trump Jr. Then 15 minutes later, Senator, Trump himself tweets, and I quote his tweet. Very little pickup by the dishonest media by incredible information provided by WikiLeaks. So they reference the press missing stories and that they're putting out the Podesta e-mails, 15 minutes later, the candidate for president tweets that out.
What does that say to you?
WARNER: Well, again, there's an awful lot of dots that seem to be getting closer to being connected. One of the reasons I want to make sure the committee has a chance to talk to Mr. Trump Jr. and that's still on our to-do-list. And if, again, this story proves to be true, this subject amongst others that we need to cover.
BURNETT: Now, Trump Jr. himself tweeted out the specific link that WikiLeaks had sent him, Senator. It was link that led to a searchable database basically of anti-Clinton stories. So they said, hey, next time you're tweeting out, why don't you tweet this link to this database, and then he actually did that. Is that collusion in it of itself?
WARNER: Again, that's what Special Prosecutor Mueller in terms of whether criminal behavior was there. He'll have to make those determinations, but what we again see, our goal here was counter intelligence. And what it continues to disturb me was obvious efforts from Russians and Russian agents of which I believe Julian Assange and WikiLeaks was at least involved with the Russians --
BURNETT: Well, you're in line with the current CIA director to believe that. So, yes.
WARNER: Yes, you know, Director Pompeo, Mr. Trump's appointee agrees with that very strongly. We continue to see this pattern of them reaching out to Trump officials, and we see communications back from Trump officials. I think there's more to come, but that's what this investigation and what the special prosecutor's criminal investigations are all about.
BURNETT: I want to read you another exchange between WikiLeaks and Don Jr. WikiLeaks' message is, "Hiya, it'd be great if you guys could comment on or push the story." They then attached, quote, from Hillary Clinton wanting to drone WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange.
An hour and a half later, Trump Jr. responds. "Already did that earlier today. It's amazing what she can get away with."
This exchange perhaps more than some of the others we've seen truly shows this was a two-way exchange. Two-way street.
[19:20:00] WARNER: Erin, again, what you're seeing here is, this repeated effort by Russians and/or their agents to reach out to officials from the Trump campaign and try to put out dirt and damaging material on Hillary Clinton.
BURNET: So ,the president -- a friend of Vladimir Putin, of course just met with him. Afterwards, he said he believed him when Putin said he didn't hack the U.S. election. Now, he's since back pedaled on that although not on his denigration of the former intelligence chiefs of the U.S. Intelligence Services.
He did imply though that he is not on board, Senator, with imposing new sanctions on Russia which of course Congress is requiring him to do by January. Here's what he said today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: People don't realize, Russia's been very, very heavily sanctioned. They were sanctioned at a very high level and that took place very recently. It's now time to get back to healing a world that is shattered and broken.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Certainly, it sound like he's not leaning in the direction of doing that, Senator. I mean, do you think his actions now, things he's saying now about Russia are in anyway related to relationships with Russia during the campaign?
WARNER: Well, Erin, that's the million dollar question. And what this president needs to understand is that we have rules of law here and those sanctions I believe passed the United States Senate with about 96 votes overwhelming, a huge super majority. And he signed onto that legislation. He can't arbitrarily choose what to enforce and what not to enforce, and it raises these questions.
Why with all of these world leaders is Vladimir Putin the only individual that he's never said an ill word about.
BURNETT: All right, Senator Mark Warner, thank you so much. I appreciate your time, sir.
WARNER: Thank you, Erin.
BURNETT: And next, another woman stepping forward, accusing Roy Moore of sexual assault when she was 16 years old.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BEVERLY YOUNG NELSON, ROY MOORE ACCUSER: Mr. Moore attacked me when I was a child. I did nothing to deserve this sexual attack.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: And Republicans promising that massive tax cut for corporations is going to give $4,000 to you. Is it true?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:25:55] BURNETT: Breaking news, another explosive allegation against Republican Senate Candidate Roy Moore. A woman says he sexually assaulted her when she was 16 years old, he was 30.
Beverly Young Nelson, now 55, speaking out today for the first time publicly. She says she was a waitress, he was a regular customer, he was the assistant district attorney at the time. He would flirt with her, compliment her on her looks. She says she didn't respond.
But one night, she accepted a ride home from Moore. And she says, when she got in the car, he immediately drove behind the restaurant, parking in a dark deserted area.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NELSON: I was alarmed and I immediately asked him what he was doing. Instead of answering my question, Mr. Moore reached over and began groping me. Him putting his hands on my breasts.
I tried to open my car door to leave. But he reached over and he locked it so I could not get out. I tried fighting him off while yelling at him to stop. But instead of stopping, he began squeezing my neck, attempting to force my head on to his crotch.
I continued to struggle. At some point he gave up. And he then looked at me and he told me -- he said, you're just a child, and he said, I am the district attorney. And if you tell anyone about this, no one will ever believe you.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: That emotional story, coming as calls go within the Republican Party for Moore to go.
Jason Carroll is OutFront in Gadsden, Alabama tonight. Jason, this is now the fifth woman to come forward accusing Moore of some sort of sexual misconduct, in this case, very clearly, assault.
And had she ever spoken about these allegations before to anyone else?
JASON CARROLL, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, she says she has, Erin. She says over the years she told not only her sister and her mother but her husband about it. Moore tonight calling the allegations absolutely false and showing no signs he's going to withdraw.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CARROLL (voice-over): Embattled GOP Senate Candidate Roy Moore now says the next chapter in his fight against accusations of sexual misconduct will be a legal one. Moore's wife posting a statement on Facebook saying, "We are gathering evidence of money being paid to people who would come forward, which is part of why we are filing suit."
Moore is accused of sexually assaulting Leigh Corfman when she was a 14-year-old girl in 1979. The Washington Post also alleges he pursued relations with three other teenaged girls nearly 40 years ago. A Corfman family member telling me tonight, "No money or other inducement has been paid, offered or promised, and none is expected."
But Moore is making this fight about something bigger. He says his faith is under attack and called the allegations an assault on Christian conservatives. This in a state where two-thirds of Republicans identify as evangelicals.
At Moore's church, Parishioner Carolyn Owens says she has known Moore for years and stands by him.
CAROLYN OWENS, PARISHIONER: God forgives the foolishness of youth. We make very bad decisions when we're young. And whether or not this is true about Judge Moore, does not mean that's the man he is.
CARROLL (voice-over): Shalon Hardwicks says her faith led her to the same conclusion.
SHALON HARDWICKS, ALABAMA VOTER: I think it's a witch hunt.
CARROL (voice-over): A witch hunt she says Christians should end with forgiveness.
HARDWICKS: Can we not forgive him for 24 years ago. I mean, who hasn't done something 20 something years ago, we've all been young, we've all been rebellious, we've all done something.
CARROL (on camera): So I don't want to misunderstand. So, from my understanding, you correct. It sounds like you believe the allegations, but you're saying he should be forgiven?
HARDWICKS: No, I don't believe the allegations. Because I'm trying to figure out, why did you wait 24 years to do it? Am I pro Judge Moore? No. But I am a person who believes that everybody deserves a second chance.
CARROLL (voice-over): Outside the First United Methodist Church, two parishioners say the allegations confirmed their decision.
DAVE WILSON, PARISHIONER: I think our faith informs our decision making, and in some ways I think our faith is under attack by those who claim to be followers of God who are not living according to what we're taught.
CARROLL (on camera): I think a lot of people watching this would say, well, look, you already support Doug Jones.
PAULA WILSON, PARISHIONER: That's right. I think they would say that. And I do not believe that our faith is under attack. I think we're in a country where we are allowed to worship as we please.
CARROLL: Voters weary of the toll the race has taken on their state.
KAREN OWEN, ALABAMA VOTER: We just want to be left alone and let us vote. We're going to show the world that Alabama is not a bunch of rednecks.
(END VIDEOTAPE) CARROLL: And Moore also saying tonight, Erin, during a press conference, that he does not know this new accuser, does not know this restaurant where she worked. Young pointed out during her press conference, she held up a yearbook in which she says that Roy Moore signed back when she was a teenager, signed the following: To a sweeter, more beautiful girl, I could not say merry Christmas, love Roy Moore.
Of course, the question is, how then could she say that his signature and statement is in her yearbook. Wanted to ask Roy Moore that, but he didn't take any questions during when he made his statement this evening -- Erin.
BURNETT: All right. Thank you very much, Jason.
And I'm going to -- we're going to talk about the yearbook in a moment. I want to hear play, what Roy Moore has said along with his wife.
Randy Brinson joins me now, president of the Christian Coalition of Alabama. He's known Moore for over 20 years. Also with me, Margaret Hoover, who worked in the George W. Bush White House.
So, we have another accuser tonight. Let me play Roy Moore and his wife responding to her new charges. Here they are.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ROY MOORE (R), ALABAMA SENATE NOMINEE: I can tell you without hesitation, this is absolutely false. I never did what she said I did. I don't even know the woman. I don't know anything about her. I don't even know where the restaurant is or was.
KAYLA MOORE, ROY MOORE'S WIFE: I've been married to this man for 32 years. We've been together for 33 all together. He has never one time lifted a finger to me. He's the most gentle, most kind man that I have ever known in my life. He's Godly.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Margaret, so let's start there. They're very much on the same page. She says her husband is Godly. He says he doesn't know the woman, doesn't know anything about her. So, it's now just a he said/she said, at five?
MARGARET HOOVER, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: It would be he said/she said, if there was just one person saying he, and the other person named she. Instead, there are five accusers. There are also multiple people who have stepped forward to tell stories that actually put into context some of these very credible allegations. There's a story from "The New Yorker" tonight about several people who recall that he had been asked to leave and step away from the Gadsden Mall where he was provoking and harassing younger women.
I mean, there's -- it's not just one drip, and one person's word against another person's. There's a context of a series of credible allegations and a context that make it harder for sort of believing thoughtful rational people to step aside and not take a strong stand here.
BURNETT: And, Randi, what do you say to that? I mean, as Margaret points out, the context is being filled in by others, as well as in each of these individual cases, the only reason any of them have been reported is because they did tell people over the years. They didn't come out publicly, but over the years, they did tell people important in their lives what had happened to them. In this case, this new accuser told a younger sister two years after it happened. Her mother four years ago, her husband before that they even got married.
Do you believe her?
DR. RANDY BRINSON, HAS KNOWN ROY MOORE FOR OVER 20 YEARS: Well, the thing that's interesting about this whole thing, Erin, is that the day before this came out, we at Christian Coalition were actually talking to Christian colleges and universities about sexual harassment, sexual abuse on campuses. What can we do as the faith community to address these issues? And that being said, on the other hand, there's also equal evidence that people need to be not falsely accused. And this is what makes this so difficult, it's because it's been 40 years.
Now, I would surmise that some of these allegations, particularly Ms. Corfman, if it's proven that she -- that Judge Moore actually never saw this person and never had anything to do with this woman, that's --
(CROSSTALK)
BURNETT: They confirmed.
BRINSON: That's a big problem.
BURNETT: Her mother was there for a custody hearing. She was there. "The Washington Post" went and confirmed the date of that hearing. I mean, all of this work was done, right?
So, you're telling me unless I go back in a time capsule, you're not going to believe it basically?
BRINSON: No, I didn't say that.
[19:35:01] I didn't say that.
What I'm saying is, and I'm saying is that we have to be careful how we accuse people. I mean, there's ultimate -- what is the ulterior motive here. And it's obviously, there's political forces behind this to gin up all this stuff. Now, 30 days before the election.
And what the sad thing about this, Erin, is that this is somewhere where we as a nation could come together about discussing sexual abuse and all these different issues. And we're not. We're using it in the political context. That's what's difficult about this whole thing.
HOOVER: We can come together as a nation and stand up for women who have credible allegations against men who have been perpetrators and abuse their authority for decades. And that's the part that -- you know, at this point in this story, if you don't believe these women, it's because you don't want to, and if you don't want to, that's probably for political reasons as well.
So, let's not be canny or coy about the politics here and what role politics is playing in this debate.
BURNETT: I mean, Randy, to this point, let's take the yearbook.
BRINSON: I disagree with that.
BURNETT: Can we take just the yearbook here? Because that's the point Margaret is making.
BRINSON: Right. Correct.
BURNETT: No one's disputing this is his signature. To a sweeter or more beautiful girl, I could not say merry Christmas. Love, Roy Moore, Old Hickory House.
By the way, the name of the restaurant that he just said in the sound bite, Randy, he didn't even know. He signed the yearbook with the name of the restaurant. He's used the word "love", talking to a girl who just turned 16.
What more do you want?
BRINSON: I think that's again, Erin, what I'm saying is, is that that is extremely problematic as far as what he did, and what the context of that. Was that poor judgment? Probably. Just like some of the people you're interviewing.
Was it poor judgment at the time by someone 30 years old? Probably. Was it sinister? Was it criminal? That's something totally different.
Here's something that's problematic for me and I'm a very I want to be equal arbiter. Remember, I ran in the U.S. Senate race back during the summer. So, I know these people very, very well. I have nothing to gain by trying to defend somebody erroneously.
But what I'm saying is this, is that how did this person leave the restaurant at 16 years old with somebody that age and nobody knows -- ever saw it. That's the thing that puzzled me on this thing. So, there's a lot of things that again --
(CROSSTALK)
BURNETT: I want to let Margaret get in here. But I will say, Randy, what you're saying, I think you're really missing the point, OK? And I just -- you may have a daughter or something like that, but when you're 14, 15, 16 years old, a guy you see every day offers you a ride home, you know him -- to blame her.
BRINSON: How do we know that happened? I'm not blaming her. No, I'm not. That's not what I'm saying.
BURNETT: It's really insulting frankly and problematic.
BRINSON: No, that's true, Erin.
BURNETT: Why would she have walked out and no one would have noticed? Maybe no one noticed because he's in there every day and he's always talking to her.
BRINSON: How do we know that even happened? You're saying that she rode home with him. How do we know that happened? That's very problematic. That's what I'm saying.
BURNETT: She didn't say she rode home with him. She said he attacked her in the parking lot. She was able to get out of the door.
Go ahead, Margaret.
HOOVER: It's sort of strange credulity, and it's hard to even imagine, sir, how -- you know, the ends and extremes one can go to, to defend somebody. Oh, by the way, I mean, this is a man who didn't think Barack Obama was born in the United States, who said 9/11 was, you know, punishment because the United States has become less Christian. I mean, this is a man who believes that the Bible has supremacy over the U.S. Constitution. This is a man who has an incredibly spotting record, anyway.
And then to go sort of bend over backwards, and to the extent that you're contorting yourself in order to defend a man against a serious and very credible allegations from multiple women against a backdrop of character witnesses of these women and of him at that time just shows us that you don't want to believe it for political reasons. And that's how that's all we need to know.
BRINSON: That's not true. Tat's not true, Margaret. That's ridiculous.
HOOVER: Well, then why do you want to support Roy Moore, a man who has desperately proven to not have the character to represent your state in the United States Senate?
BRINSON: Margaret, look, OK, here's the thing. At the end of the day, the voters are going to decide on this thing. OK? I ran during this race. I've seen Roy Moore and Kayla for 20 years, and even though I'm not -- that's why I ran this race, I didn't agree with all the policies that he maybe espoused. That's why I ran as a United States Senate candidate. But that being said, there's a system of fundamental fairness that we have to honor in the United States.
Until that's proven --
(CROSSTALK)
HOOVER: Is it fair to believe women who have credible allegations?
BRINSON: Of course it is. HOOVER: What's unfair is this inclination to disbelieve women who
have personal stories that are real and you can see their pain. And to think they're just making it up is the part that that strange credulity.
BRINSON: Margaret, that's an unfair characteristic of me as a person and Christian Coalition.
HOOVER: That's what you're staying.
BRINSON: I have gone to bat -- no, listen to me. I've gone to bat for people that come out and said they were assaulted on college campuses. I went to colleges. I never saw you go to a college, Margaret, to go talk to administrators and make sure they got accommodations and the justice prevailed in those cases. So, I --
(CROSSTALK)
HOOVER: I applaud you for standing up for women. I don't understand why you wouldn't stand up.
(CROSSTALK)
BURNETT: Why not this one, Randy?
BRINSON: I want to see the rest of the facts. I told you.
BURNETT: What facts do you want?
(CROSSTALK)
[19:40:01] BURNETT: Back to my time capsule point. That in these situations, you can't go back in time.
BRINSON: Right, OK. That's true.
BURNETT: So, when people say with all of this preponderance of evidence and stories and consistency and context, that it isn't enough, you're basically using it as an excuse.
BRINSON: No, that's not true.
BURNETT: Then, what are you doing?
BRINSON: We need to know.
(CROSSTALK)
BURNETT: -- time capsule.
BRINSON: No, no, you can't.
If this person, if he said that he never saw this person. No, no -- I'll give you two examples. If you can confirm, I think that's what a lot of people are saying, that Leigh Corfman actually had seen this person and you can prove that, somehow -- (CROSSTALK)
BURNETT: That was done, I made that point earlier about "The Washington Post", their report.
BRINSON: Who saw him there?
HOOVER: Her mother.
BRINSON: Who saw him there?
HOOVER: Her mother.
BRINSON: Her mother, OK, of course, she can say, they can say that. Who else was there? Who else saw this? Who saw Judge Moore with this person? That's an important point.
(CROSSTALK)
BURNETT: The only person who would have cared enough to notice outside that courtroom is probably her mother. And her mother did.
BRINSON: That's not necessarily true. That's not true.
And plus, with this latest allegation, how do you know that that person actually left? You're going to tell me that a 16-year-old left a restaurant with nobody there, that saw her leave with Judge Moore. I find that hard to believe.
I mean, those are hard to believe. And the whole thing that bothers people about the whole thing in the state of Alabama, is why is this coming -- two things important. Why is this all coming out now, 30 days before election? Why these people come out in the closet 30 days before election? How are they being found, who's doing it?
These are all things that need to come out. All I'm saying is, people need fundamental fairness. And the reason I say that, Margaret and many of you, they will attack you. They've attacked me at Christian Coalition. I've had people shoot up my backyard and do all kinds of crazy things, because of things I stood for on Christian principles, that when it gets the grain of the establishment.
We've had people send money and say it came from erroneous sources and things like that to us. I mean, I could go on and on about those things.
BURNETT: All right.
We have to leave it here, I think we all could agree it is inherently Christian, Muslim or Jewish or anything to stand up for the victims of sexual assault.
BRINSON: Absolutely, I will agree with you 100 percent.
BURNETT: We can all agree with that. OK?
BRINSON: Absolutely.
BURNETT: All right. Thank you.
And next, Ivanka Trump hitting the road to push the Trump tax plan and how a tax cut for corporations is the single best way to get money to you.
And stories of horrific atrocities, babies burned, women gang-raped by soldiers, what is President Trump doing about it tonight? This is a CNN exclusive.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:46:31] BURNETT: Ivanka Trump and Treasury Secretary Steve Mnuchin hitting the road to sell the GOP tax plan. Ivanka Trump repeating one of the Republicans' biggest single selling points for the plan.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
IVANKA TRUMP, FIRST DAUGHTER: We believe that cutting the rate of taxes on corporations, medium size and small businesses is growing to accomplish the goal of putting more money back in the pockets of American workers.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: But is that really true?
OUTFRONT now, Stephen Moore, former senior economic adviser for the Trump campaign, and Robert Reich, former labor secretary under President Bill Clinton. His new documentary, "Saving Capitalism" debuts on Netflix later this month.
So, Stephen, you know, the Council of Economic Advisers put out a report last month, that most people believe to be very aggressive in terms of their estimates, right, which you would acknowledge maybe believe them. But it is an outlier on some of these things. They say that slashing that corporate tax rate, which is the entire centerpiece of this entire tax plan from 35 percent to 20 percent is going to give $4,000 of additional income, a pay raise basically, to the average American family.
Is that realistic?
STEPHEN MOORE, CNN SENIOR ECONOMIC ANALYST: I think it is. I think -- and by the way, this was one of the major centerpieces of the plan, since the early days when I was involved in helping to put this together. We wanted to do two things, cut the corporate and business -- just to be clear to your viewers, we're talking about not just the corporations, Erin, but also the 26-1/2 million small businesses in this country. And the second part was providing some middle class relief.
But the economic component that I think provides enough juice for the economy is getting these business tax rates down so we're competitive in the world, and I think it will raise wages in a couple ways. Number one, I think it will bring a lot of businesses back to the
United States because we're 20 percentage points above every other country that we compete with. that's just not work anymore.
And the second thing, I think it will do is induce a lot of these companies that are sitting on all this cash to get out there and start investing it by reducing the tax you impose on the corporations. And a lot of business men and women I talk to, Erin, say that's exactly what they'll do, when this tax cut comes. They'll start -- not taking that money and going on a trip to Tahiti, they'll expand their business, pay their workers more, provide them with more health insurance and expand their operations.
BURNETT: I just don't understand, Stephen, how that happens on a very basic level, OK? I understand if you have a tight labor market, people have the power to ask for more wages, whether they have tight labor market, or through unions. I'm not trying to get a debate on that, right? But I get that.
I do not understand, OK -- and, Secretary Reich, let me ask you here and, Steve, you think I'm missing something because maybe I'm being too simplistic. But I do not understand why a tax cut in and of itself and more money in a corporation's pocket would, out of a good of their hearts, ever be given to higher wages to its employees?
ROBERT REICH, FORMER U.S. LABOR SECRETARY UNDER PRESIDENT BILL CLINTON: You mean, Erin, you are skeptical that corporations have hearts? I am too. In fact, what we know is that corporations are flush with cash right now, and they are not giving it to their employees. Wages are absolutely stagnant for most people. And what they are doing with their extra money, and there's no doubt they would do this if they had even more extra money, because of a tax cut, what they are doing with their extra money is they are buying back their shares of stock to pump up the share prices.
And they are also giving more money to their executives. That's what corporations do when they get more money. That's what they did in 2004 when they had the big --
BURNETT: One time, yes.
REICH: -- the lower tax rate for the money coming back from abroad.
[19:50:03] The one time tax holiday, they all gave it to -- they bought more shares of stock and gave it that's what they did in 2004 when they had the lower tax rate for the money coming back from abroad. The one time tax holiday, they all gave it to -- they bought more shares of stock and gave it to their executives.
They don't give it to their workers. They're not -- it's not a matter of generosity, it's not about having big hearts, they just don't give it to their workers.
(CROSSTALK)
REICH: Substantially more demand. BURNETT: Steve?
MOORE: I think you're missing the point. It is true that what happened during this recovery, and you cover this every day, Erin. So, you know all these companies became very efficient. They came very well-run. They cut their cost. They became more profitable.
But, Robert Reich, and you are right, that they didn't reinvest the money into the economy the way they normally would. Now, why didn't they? I think there are a couple factors. One is that the company was afraid. What is the next shoe that was going to drop from Washington?
I mean, we have tax increases. We had Obamacare. We had huge increases in regulations.
And our point, Erin, is take those shackles off of business and reward them by cutting the tax -- this tax cut is for the future investment. And we cut tax on something, Erin, you get more of it.
BURNETT: So let me --
(CROSSTALK)
REICH: Let me just say. You were talking about the Obama administration just now.
MOORE: Yes.
REICH: I mean, go back to the George W. Bush administration, that 2004 tax cut for repatriated earnings that resulted in almost no new net investment. That all went to buying back their shares --
MOORE: OK.
REICH: -- and corporate executive pay. Why do you think it's going to be any different? That's the Bush administration, that's the Obama administration, and it was the same thing in the Clinton administration.
MOORE: Because George --
REICH: The first Bush administration. We don't have any records of tax cut actually creating better jobs and better pay for anybody. Why do you think --
MOORE: That's what the Council of Economic Advisers was all about. It looked at 40 countries, they looked at countries that have cut their tax rates and they found those are the countries where wages tend to be rising, because there's more capital investment in those countries and less here.
I mean, the whole idea behind this, Bob, is to bring the businesses, bring the capital back to America. And, by the way, if it goes back to paying dividends or buying back stocks, what that does is increase the value of stocks. Whose invest in the stock market? I mean, everybody is. You got millions of people --
REICH: That's not true.
BURNETT: About half.
REICH: It's 1 percent as 40 percent of the value of the stock. The top 10 percent has 80 percent of the value of the stock market.
MOORE: Yes, but where do you think -- Bob, where do you think all the pension --
(CROSSTALK)
BURNETT: I'm going to interrupt to leave it there. We'll have you back later this week to continue this conversation.
MOORE: OK.
BURNETT: Next though, we have a CNN exclusive report that you need to see. Hundreds of thousands of people facing genocide. We're going to take you to the front lines.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:55:16] BURNETT: President Trump tonight wrapping up his trip to Asia but failing to address the horrific atrocities happening right now in Myanmar. This despite standing on stage with that country's de facto leader.
Myanmar security forces are massacring the Rohingyas. It's a Muslim minority group. They are facing brutal murders, mass rapes. They've been burned alive. Villages torched.
More than 600,000 Rohingyas have fled to nearby Bangladesh.
Clarissa Ward went OUTFRONT. She's there tonight with an exclusive report. We want to warn all of you that some of the footage you're about to see is graphic.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CLARISSA WARD, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It's just a few hundred yards to safety, but it doesn't take along to see that something has gone very wrong. A woman's limp body is rushed through the no man's land between Bangladesh and Myanmar, as anxious families wait to see what has happened.
On this day, it is a husband and wife. The crowd says they were shot dead as they tried to leave Myanmar. More than 600,000 Rohingya Muslims who have flooded this border to escape what the United Nations has called a textbook example of ethic cleansing.
Each it seems has a tail more harrowing than the next. Nurul Haq says he fled a brutal massacre in his village of Tula Tuli.
My sons and daughters were shot on Thursday, I can't find them, he says. There's no one left.
Haq claims local officials told residence it was safe to remain in the village, but the days later, the Myanmar military poured in and carried out a blood bath.
Please someone kill me, he cries. This is god's will.
Others who escaped Tula Tuli tell a similar story. Rihanna (ph) says the soldiers rounded them up on the river bank and separated the men from the women. We couldn't escape, many children were shot and they fell on their faces, she recalls. Those lying on the ground were picked up, chopped and later thrown into the river.
Cell phone footage given to CNN by Tulatuli residents appears to show the bodies of three children wash up on the shore. As witnesses try to god for mercy. CNN cannot confirm the authenticity of the video or verify the many accounts.
Access to Rakhine state is heavily restricted. But we wanted to find out more about what happened in Tula Tuli. So, we traveled to a sprawling refugee camp along the border and met 30-year-old Mumtaz. She says that Burmese soldier raped her before setting the house a light with her inside.
But the burns that cover her body only hint at the horror she survived.
(on camera): Describe to me what happened to you? What did you see with your own eyes exactly? Translate m translate.
(voice-over): My boy was behind me they hit with a wooden stick and he collapses to the ground dead. His head was split open, she says. Then they took my other son from my lap and threw him into the fire.
She managed to escape with her 7-year-old daughter, Rasia (ph). All three of her sons were killed.
Oh god, she cries, why didn't you take me?
But for the survivors of Tula Tuli, there is no justice in this world.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
WARD: Erin, CNN has reached out to the governments of Myanmar for some kind of statement on what happened in Tula Tuli. Unsurprisingly, they tell a very different story. They say the villagers from Tula Tuli are terrorists, that they launched insurgent attacks against the Burmese military on eight different occasions. They deny allegations of using excessive force against Rohingya civilians.
And we know, as you mentioned, President Trump met briefly with Aung San Suu Kyi, the de facto Burmese leader. Rex Tillerson, secretary of state, will also be meeting with her today and again traveling to Myanmar tomorrow. The question is, will the U.S. take a tougher tone with the Burmese leader about what needs to be done to protect the Rohingya -- Erin. BURNETT: Of course, a leader who has received so many accolades for
her leadership.
Thanks so much for that incredible report.
Anderson is next.
