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Erin Burnett Outfront
White House Calls Giuliani "Added Value" Even As He Creates Chaos; Giuliani Won't Rule Out Trump Taking The Fifth Amendment; Trump Hours Away From Revealing Iran Nuclear Deal Decision; Trump: Kerry Trying to Salvage Iran Deal "Possibly Illegal;" Sanders: "Not Aware" Whether Trump Paid Off Other Women; Melania Trump Unveils Her Platform, Tells Kids To "Be Best." Aired 7-8p ET
Aired May 07, 2018 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: "ERIN BURNETT OUTFRONT" starts right now.
ERIN BURNETT, CNN ANCHOR: OUTFRONT next, Rudy's word, the White House says Giuliani adds value to the president's legal team. This, as we're learning team Trump has a date where they're going to make a decision on a Mueller interview.
And Trump's nuclear decision. The president just hours away from announcing whether he'll withdraw from the historic Iran deal.
And the payoff bombshell. Did Michael Cohen pay off other women besides Stormy Daniels for Trump?
Let's go OUTFRONT.
And good evening, I'm Erin Burnett. OUTFRONT tonight, the true value of Rudy. The president's new lawyer hit television screens again saying there could be more payments to women besides Stormy Daniels and that it doesn't matter if the president lied to the American people about it. To this White House, those claims and others are simply added value.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is the president pleased with the appearances of Rudy Giuliani over the last few days?
SARAH SANDERS, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: I didn't speak with him specifically about his feelings about it, but certainly feels that he's an added member -- added value member to his outside special counsel.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Value added. Well, it is sure adding something to say publicly that the president may have paid off more women than Stormy Daniels, which of course was just part of Giuliani's latest television revelations.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOS, ABC NEWS HOST: Did Michael Cohen make payments to other women for the president?
RUDY GIULIANI, PERSONAL ATTORNEY FOR TRUMP: I have no knowledge of that. But I would think if it was necessary, yes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Giuliani continued to say Trump may take the Fifth if questioned by the special counsel Bob Mueller.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
STEPHANOPOULOS: Are you confident the president will not take the Fifth in this case?
GIULIANI: How could I ever be confident of that? When I'm facing a situation with the president and all the other lawyers are, in which every lawyer in America thinks he'd be a fool to testify.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: OK, there is a unique problem, though, with this person, President Donald Trump taking the Fifth. And that is that citizen Donald Trump was happy to give his opinion and say that people who take the Fifth are guilty.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The mob takes the Fifth. If you're innocent, why are you taking the Fifth Amendment?
When you have your staff taking the Fifth Amendment, taking the Fifth so they're not prosecuted, I think it's disgraceful.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Disgraceful, the mob does it, if you're innocent why take the Fifth? Look, if you're innocent, why take the Fifth? That really is the question, the president couldn't phrase it any better.
If the president is innocent, why would he take the Fifth? Well, maybe because his new lawyer, Rudy Giuliani, has had a chance to listen to what some of Trump has said under oath. Take for example this deposition, it's from June of 2016, and in this question, the President Trump is being questioned about who signed a restaurant lease. And he says it was his son, Don Jr.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Don did. He told me when they signed the lease. I don't know when that was, it was a while ago, but he told me, we have a signed lease for the restaurant.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: OK, so pretty clear, right. Don Jr. signed the lease, he told me about it. Except, there was a problem with that answer.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The reason I was puzzled by your answer earlier about your son telling you the lease had been signed, my understanding is that you signed this lease. And if you look at page --
TRUMP: Well, that's true.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK.
TRUMP: It is me, yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK.
TRUMP: Yes. Well, I did -- I believe I signed the lease --
BURNETT: OK.
TRUMP: -- but he came in and said, we're signing the lease. So --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He said --
TRUMP: -- I'll change that.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: -- we're signing it?
TRUMP: Because I think I signed it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: OK, because she had the lease, right? You saw filming through it. So therefore hard evidence and then the president changed his story under oath. Perhaps it's examples like that one that make Giuliani think taking the Fifth is worth it for President Trump.
Pamela Brown is at the White House. And Pamela, you know, what do people behind the scenes there where you are think about Giuliani, you know, just suddenly popping up to television again and the throwing things out there like taking the Fifth and there could be more women?
PAMELA BROWN, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, contrary to what you heard from Press Secretary Sarah Sanders that he adds value to the team, some White House officials, Erin, have been balking at the continued media blitz that Rudy Giuliani has been a part of. White House officials have complained that they are left in the dark about when and where he might pop up.
Regardless, Erin, the president continues to allow this. As one official said, he is doing this, you know, at the blessing, at the pleasure of the president. This is something that the president wanted, he wanted an attack dog to go out there and have this kind of tough talk, which is what you're seeing, despite the barrage of negative headlines.
But sources I've spoken with in the White House, as well as those close to the legal team, have expressed some concern that not only is he stealing the spotlight, but that he could potentially be hurting the president when he makes comments like what you heard, what he said to ABC's George Stephanopoulos that it's possible that Michael Cohen could have paid off other women just before the election. Some are concerned that that could be a bad thing.
[19:05:03] And one source I spoke with called Rudy Giuliani's public display on the media a little charade, saying that he'll either change his behavior or he'll be gone. A lot of people drawing the comparison with Anthony Scaramucci, as you'll recall, the former communications director who lasted about 11 days.
So it's yet to be seen. Clearly the president continues to allow Rudy Giuliani to go out there, speak on his behalf.
BURNETT: Yes.
BROWN: We'll have to see what happens in that regard. This, as we're learning that Rudy Giuliani and others on the president's legal team are discussing when or if an interview will happen with Robert Mueller. And they're looking at the date of May 17th as sort of the potential deadline to make that decision by.
A source I spoke with said that is what they're shooting for. Of course things could change. New lawyers are being brought on board as Emmet Flood as we recently reported.
BURNETT: Yes.
BROWN: But that is what they're aiming for. So while Rudy Giuliani is there in the public, speaking to the media. Behind the scenes there are very serious discussions going on about whether the president will testify, Erin.
BURNETT: All right, thank you very much, Pamela. And obviously significant there if they are shooting for a May 17th date as Pamela indicated they're trying to. You know, all these questions about whether they're going to face a subpoena or take the Fifth, obviously they have to make some hard decisions and fast.
OUTFRONT now, Renato Mariotti, former federal prosecutor, Harry Sandick, former assistant U.S. attorney for the southern district of New York, and John Avlon, editor-in-chief of "The Daily Beast" who also used to be chief speech writer for then New York City Mayor Rudy Giuliani.
JOHN AVLON, EDITOR-IN-CHIEF, "THE DAILY BEAST": True.
BURNETT: You might have written different answers to some of these questions. OK.
You know -- but obviously, you hear the president, right. He has made his clear -- his voice as a citizen very clear --
AVLON: Yes. BURNETT: -- what he thinks about people taking the Fifth. Now Giuliani is saying Trump himself may take the Fifth and we're hearing they want to make a decision, if they can, by May 17th.
AVLON: Nothing like an artificial deadline to focus the mind. Look, I think that the president -- I'm with candidate Trump on this one. You know, why take the Fifth if you're innocent? And this has political problems, it's a constitutionally protected right. But Rudy's job is right now to act to simultaneously attack dog and a lightning rod. And he's absorbing a lot of heat that might otherwise be directed at President Trump.
As along as they're in cahoots, and it's the Rudy-Trump show, that could work out very well. There's always the question of, you know, that I liked to use, I actually learned from him in City Hall, does this cause more problems than it solves? That is a good question in life. I'm not sure this is on the positive side of that one, Erin.
BURNETT: Although I do like the lightning rod analogy. You know, it's shooting down and all of the flame right now is coming down around Rudy.
Renato, I want to play again what Giuliani said, he was asked specifically by George Stephanopoulos if he was confident the president wouldn't plead the Fifth. It was a very simple question and I sort of love Giuliani's facial expression at the beginning here as well. Here it is again.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GIULIANI: How could I ever be confident of that? When I'm facing a situation with the president and all the other lawyers are, in which every lawyer in America thinks he'd be a fool to testify.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Does every lawyer in America think that, Renato? Would he be a fool to testify regardless of what he has said before?
RENATO MARIOTTI, FORMER FEDERAL PROSECUTOR: Well, I think he would be a fool to testify, Erin. You know, of one reason, though, that above and beyond what you mentioned earlier, and certainly the fact that he often doesn't tell the truth is part of it. But another part of it is, he actually has significant criminal exposure here.
You know, the president, he sure looks like he tried to obstruct yesterday when he fired James Comey. At the very least, he certainly talks as if he's somebody who obstructed justice, who had a desire to obstruct justice. You know, if you have a client who's under criminal investigation and there's significant evidence that could point to their guilt, the best thing you can do is have them not say anything. And I think that's what --
BURNETT: Yes.
MARIOTTI: -- you know, a hundred lawyers out of a hundred would tell you.
BURNETT: Harry, here's the thing. You had in the deposition that we just heard --
HARRY SANDICK, FORMER ASSISTANT U.S. ATTORNEY, SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF NEW YORK: Right.
BURNETT: -- right? The president said his son signed the lease. You know -- look, we picked a very specific example. But his son signed a lease and then gets what, a lawyer had the lease and that wasn't what happened. So he said, oh, yes, OK, I did.
AVLON: Exactly.
BURNETT: OK. That may sound like a small thing, but I brought up the point because everybody that I've spoken to has been interviewed by Mueller has said the same thing. They knew the answers before they asked the questions and they had it all lined up.
SANDICK: Yes.
BURNETT: So if I were Giuliani or the president, I'd be terrified they're going to have six other things like this --
SANDICK: Yes.
BURNETT: -- or 60, whatever it might be. I mean --
SANDICK: Exactly. And there's serious risk as Renato just said for exactly that reason. That if you're a prosecutor, you have all your documents in line. They've been looking at e-mails and other financial documents for a year.
I think from a political perspective, it may make more sense for him to first try the executive privilege route, even if he knows that ultimately that may not succeed before the courts. That will take months to resolve.
BURNETT: So then you force a subpoena.
SANDICK: Force a subpoena --
BURNETT: And then you take the Fifth?
SANDICK: -- go to -- well, I wouldn't take the Fifth. I would first force the subpoena --
BURNETT: Yes.
SANDICK: -- and then say, I don't have to respond to the subpoena. I don't have to show up and take the Fifth or not take the Fifth. I don't have to do anything because I'm the president. And see whether that argument works. And at a minimum, it delays the process for several months until he then -- if he is compelled, then he would have to decide whether to take the Fifth, but it pushes it out quite a bit. [19:10:05] AVLON: But, we have precedent here, right? I mean, you know, you don't need to go back to Thomas Jefferson, you got Bill Clinton and they kept invoking Bill Clinton for a lot of different reasons, some of them related to the court of public opinion more than the court of law. But -- I mean, if they get presented with a subpoena, my understanding of the law and the president is -- is that the president is not above a subpoena.
SANDICK: So here's my view. I think that at the end of the day, the president will lose that court battle, but he won't lose it tomorrow. It will take months, maybe a year to delay the action --
BURNETT: Maybe a year?
SANDICK: -- push it past the midterms, hope that maybe the Republicans can keep Congress, keep this issue at bay. Once you take the Fifth, it's generally thought that for politicians --
AVLON: Frowned upon. Yes.
SANDICK: -- it's not a good idea to take the Fifth for exactly the reasons that candidate Trump said earlier.
BURNETT: Right, he was very clear.
AVLON: Yes, yes.
BURNETT: The mob, disgraceful --
SANDICK: Yes.
BURNETT: -- you're a liar basically.
OK, you know, there's also, Renato, you know, later in the deposition the president was asked whether his campaign was helping his hotel business, right. He was asked about this. And eventually by the way he answered the question. He said yes.
But, he didn't just say yes. You know, he decided to add in a whole lot more information like this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: You know, people have said there's never been anything like this. O'Reilly said the other night I got something to the effect that this is one of the great phenomenons that he's ever seen in his lifetime, you know. So, I mean, it's been pretty amazing.
You have 17 people and I end up at the top. I think people like that. So I think that's how they -- I think it'll will be great for the building in question.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: He got around answering it, Renato. You know, just the whole point is, there was a lot of other stuff in there. And you can't manage this guy. You could say, answer the question yes or no. But no, he had to add in this whole thing about, you know, basically the polls and O'Reilly.
MARIOTTI: That's right. And I gotta say, Erin, you know, when I prepare witnesses, particularly if they're under investigation, you're just trying to minimize the damage. It's not like you're ever going to come out ahead in the interview. It's not like you're going to win the prosecutor over. You're just trying to say as little as possible, get through the interview without revealing much.
BURNETT: Trying to survive. Yes.
SANDICK: And really -- look, Donald Trump is -- yes, Donald Trump is totally undisciplined. And frankly, so is Rudy Giuliani. They really are a match made in heaven. We have an undisciplined lawyer and undisciplined client. And really, that's a very, very bad combination.
BURNETT: So then you mean hell, not heaven. But, OK. All right, Harry, the president tweeted today about obstruction --
SANDICK: Yes.
BURNETT: -- specifically. "The Russia witch hunt is rapidly losing credibility. House Intelligence Committee found no collusion, coordination or anything else. So now the probe says, OK, what else is there, how about obstruction for a made-up phony crime? There is no O, it's called fighting back."
Now, obviously, that was the Republican conclusion --
AVLON: Right.
BURNETT: -- of that committee so it wasn't --
AVLON: Yes.
BURNETT: -- a full conclusion. But, the point I have here is obstruction.
SANDICK: Yes.
BURNETT: If that's really all they come up with, and there is no crime except for obstruction which is a crime but there's no underlying crime whether it's money laundering or collusion or anything like that. Should they go ahead with it?
SANDICK: I think it depends on the level of proof they have, how convinced they are that there was obstruction, and what the impact the obstruction had on the investigation. We remember many years ago, Pat Fitzgerald who I know Renato worked with when we was on the Libby case, he talked about throwing dirt in the umpire's eyes.
And if the obstruction was significant to a point where it prevents the prosecutors and the public from finding out what actually happened, I think there is a logic to an obstruction prosecution. If it's something less significant, I think that it's unlikely to be charged.
BURNETT: OK.
AVLON: But look, we have been through this. This clearly, they're trying to play this in the court of public opinion. And that videotape of the deposition that you showed, Donald Trump, then candidate, couldn't resist talking about what he heard O'Reilly say on T.V., it's something flattering about himself. Is he a valuable guy going to fly off a leap? Of course he is.
But at the end of the day, this is more than simply how to protect a client. This is about the presidency of the United States which is about a trust with the American people. And so what law is supposed to be about, as Rudy Giuliani has always said, the search for the truth applies here a lot more than flanking maneuvers on television. This is a higher standard than simply getting your guy off.
BURNETT: Do you feel that you know the Rudy Giuliani who's out there now making all those comments?
AVLON: I -- you know, people maybe get more so as they get older. I have a lot of respect and affection for Rudy Giuliani, we disagree politically at this point in his career. I don't think this is his finest hour, but he's doing what he thinks is right, and I'm trying to do what I think is right in a different arena.
BURNETT: And those two do not meet right now. All right, thank you all three very much.
And next, team Trump reportedly hiring foreign operatives to dig up dirt on Obama officials with a very specific end goal. What is it?
And, did the president's lawyer pay off other women? Rudy Giuliani with a stunning admission.
And Trump taking a back seat, letting Melania steal the spotlight as a "Washington Post" report reveals their very separate lives behind closed doors.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:18:27] BURNETT: We now know President Trump will reveal the fate of the Iran nuclear deal tomorrow, saying in a tweet late today that he'll announce the decision at 2:00 from the White House. This, as Trump faces worldwide pressure not to abandon the deal.
Michelle Kosinski is OUTFRONT at the State Department tonight. And Michelle, I guess, look, here is the big question. Is there any chance Trump stays in?
MICHELLE KOSINSKI, CNN SENIOR DIPLOMATIC CORRESPONDENT: I think -- well, I think it's always safe to say that we don't know exactly what Trump is going to do until he finally does it. But what we do know is, over the last several weeks, we've seen this endless parade of top European leaders and diplomats coming here to Washington, including just today with U.K. Foreign Secretary Boris Johnson. And they've been pulling out all the stops to try to keep the U.S. in the deal but every time they just walk away with a deepening sense of pessimism. They've been working with the U.S. on this, and their goal was to keep the existing Iran deal and then just build up around it to address the U.S. and their concerns about things like Iran's ballistic missile program or its influence in the region. But now they seem very much convinced that Trump is dead set on scuttling the deal.
So if he does announce this tomorrow, there's still some questions around it. For example, is he going to let all the sanctions immediately go back on Iran, or is he only going to put some sanctions back on Iran? Might he leave some kind of time frame that could allow for negotiation? Maybe keeping some parts of the original deal. We just don't know.
And the other major wild card of course is how Iran reacts to this. Are they going to say, OK, the U.S. is out, deal over, let's go back to enriching uranium. Or might they see it in their best interest financially to stay in a deal with just the Europeans or maybe even go back to the negotiating table.
[19:20:08] As the president himself might say, Erin, we'll see.
BURNETT: Yes, certainly as he were but obviously playing a roulette here. Thank you very much Michelle.
And I want to go now to the Democratic congressman from California, John Garamendi who met with former Secretary of State John Kerry last week to talk strategy on defending the Iran deal which of course Kerry orchestrated on the U.S. side.
Now Congressman, you met with John Kerry, the former secretary of state.
REP. JOHN GARAMENDI (D), CALIFORNIA: Yes.
BURNETT: The Boston Globe is reporting Kerry also met with the Iranian foreign minister to try to save the deal. And Trump has found out about all this. He tweeted in part, quote, the United States does not need John Kerry's possibly illegal shadow diplomacy on the very badly negotiated Iran deal.
Congressman, what do you say, illegal shadow diplomacy. Does the president have a point?
GARAMENDI: No. No, he doesn't at all. We would expect people that understand this deal, and certainly Secretary Kerry is among those who understand it better than anybody else, to be engaged. He understands the importance of this. He understands why this is important to the entire world and certainly to the Middle East.
If the president makes the mistake and I say it is a very serious mistake, to pull the United States out of this deal, then we're headed for nothing good out of that. You raised a whole series of questions just a few moments ago.
BURNETT: Yes.
GARAMENDI: The answers to every one of those questions is negative. It is not going to be good. And so how do we go forward? Kerry, he is involve, (INAUDIBLE) is involved. Those people that wrote it --
BURNETT: Yes.
GARAMENDI: -- out to be talking to everybody about why it is working and why it's important.
BURNETT: You say that John Kerry understands the deal better than anyone else. And of course, you know, he was the --
GARAMENDI: Sure.
BURNETT: -- one of the authors of it, right? Does President Trump understand the deal?
GARAMENDI: No, he doesn't. If he understood the deal, he wouldn't be even threatening to pull out of it. The fact to the matter is, Iran is abiding by the deal, and the very intrusive reviews by the United Nations and others about what Iran is continuing or not doing, is actually taking place on the ground in any facility in Iran where there could be any nefarious activity. There isn't.
And so the facts of the matter are that there is absolutely no reason to pull out of the deal, and in fact there are hundreds of reasons to stay in the deal. And basically, Iran will not have a nuclear weapon for a long, long time if this deal continues.
BURNETT: So Congressman, I just wonder though if there's hypocrisy here. I mean, a few of your fellow Democrats slammed Michael Flynn for calling Russia's ambassador while President Obama was still in office to talk about sanctions. I mean, they really slammed him. Here are few of them are.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. MARK WARNER (D), VIRGINIA: Clearly, what happened was Flynn, who at that point was a private citizen, he, in effect, what appears, was trying to undermine the existing policy of the United States.
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (I), VERMONT: I think the bottom line here is, I understand that he talked, negotiated with the Russian Government as a private citizen before he had an official position which is in violation of the Logan Act.
SEN. CHRIS COONS (D), DELAWARE: We only have one president at a time and American leaders, American citizens shouldn't be engaging in their own foreign policy.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Isn't Kerry doing the same thing now, Congressman?
GARAMENDI: No, he is not. He is not in line to become the National Security adviser, or secretary of state. He is a person that has enormous knowledge of what is going on, having served on the foreign -- Senate Foreign Relations Committee, secretary of state, and he is acting as a private citizen, not negotiating, but quite probably sharing information, trying to understand what the Iranians' position is, and that's important. It's extremely important.
Keep in mind that Flynn was about to become a key player in the new administration at the time that the old administration was phasing out. And as was said in those interviews, in very serious discussions about the Russian situation, which incidentally --
BURNETT: Because you're saying he is about to have the power so the power so he's doing something inappropriate as a private citizen mattered more, I suppose. Trump is making Kerry the face of the Iran deal. And I just want to play for you President Trump attacking Kerry at the NRA and the Press Secretary Sarah Sanders today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: John Kerry, not the best negotiator we've ever seen. He never walked away from the table except to be in that bicycle race where he fell and broke his leg. That's it.
And I learned from that. At 73 years old, you never go into a bicycle race, OK? You just don't do that. I'm not 73. He was, OK.
SANDERS: I don't think that we would take advice from somebody who created what the president sees as one of the worst deals ever made.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: You heard the president there cracking jokes at John Kerry.
GARAMENDI: Yes.
BURNETT: Is Kerry doing this just to get under Trump's skin?
[19:25:02] GARAMENDI: No, he's not. He's doing this really to protect all of us from Iran getting a nuclear weapon. Understand that if the United States pulls out of this agreement, Iran is in a position to restart its nuclear weapons program. The agreement that was put in place actually is working. Iran has no nuclear weapons program now and they cannot, as long as they're in the agreement, they cannot build a nuclear weapon. That is absolutely critical to peace really throughout the world and certainly in the Middle East.
BURNETT: All right.
GARAMENDI: You can only imagine what the options would be if Iran was now building a nuclear weapon. You would have Saudi Arabia, which they've already promised to do, if Iran has a nuclear weapon, Saudi Arabia will have a nuclear weapon.
BURNETT: Yes.
GARAMENDI: This would be a very critical problem that the president is about to create unnecessarily.
BURNETT: All right, Congressman Garamendi, I appreciate your time. Thank you, sir.
GARAMENDI: Thank you.
BURNETT: And next, a surprising admission from Rudy Giuliani that Stormy Daniels may not have been the only one.
And Melania Trump, now more popular than her husband. How is that sitting with the president who is fixated on his poll numbers?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BURNETT: New tonight, did President Trump pay off more women than just Stormy Daniels? The White House won't rule it out. Sarah sanders only saying she's, quote, not aware of more payments.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Are there other women out there who received money from the president to stay quiet?
SANDERS: I'm not aware of any other activity, but I would refer you to Rudy Giuliani to respond to any of those questions. Or anybody else on the president's outside counsel.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: But you've been in his circle for a long time now. You were on the campaign. Is that anything that came across (INAUDIBLE)?
SANDERS: Again, I'm not aware of anything like that but I would refer you to the president's outside counsel.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: This coming after Trump's new lawyer said it's plausible Michael Cohen did arrange other payments to women for Trump.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RUDY GIULIANI, PRESIDENT TRUMP'S LAWYER: Michael Cohen, as far as I know, is a long standing agreement that Michael Cohen takes care of situations like this, then gets paid for them sometimes.
GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOS, ABC NEWS ANCHOR: Did Michael Cohen make payments to other women for the president?
GIULIANI: I have no knowledge of that. But I would think if it was necessary, yes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Did he need to add that part? Well, he did.
OUTFRONT now, national affairs correspondent for "The Nation", Joan Walsh, and the co-founder and co-chair for women for Trump, Amy Kremer.
Joan, you're next to me. Let me start with you. The White House, you know, look, they say they're not aware, they're not saying no.
JOAN WALSH, NATIONAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT, "THE NATION": Right.
BURNETT: At this point, no one's going to be definitive about anything. Rudy Giuliani says, by his own decision to add it in there, but sure, if necessary. Absolutely. Does it matter if there are other women?
WALSH: Look, we know he's a philanderer. He's on his third marriage. We know he has a pattern of cheating. A lot of it isn't our business. I mean, we've made up our minds about him good or bad.
It matters I think, Erin, if it comes out that there are payments that are close to the election, that are not trying to protect Melania or his family, this line that's been put out there, but are really about hiding something because he's running for president. He's not known for hiding, you know, his bad behavior. He kind of flaunts it, you know. He took that picture with Stormy Daniels. There's pictures of him with other women.
So, the idea that he's going around paying people off unnecessarily, that seems strange to me. We've never heard of that. But if he did it close to the election because he's running, that's a problem.
BURNETT: Amy, would that make you care?
AMY KREMER, CHAIR, WOMEN FOR TRUMP: I mean, I think it's really irrelevant, Erin. We elected him knowing that he had had these indiscretions in his past. I mean, it doesn't matter if there's one woman or a hundred women.
I think it's really irrelevant and I think that his base, his supporters agree. We're focused on jobs, the economy, national security. I mean, look at what's happening with North Korea and Iran --
WALSH: We didn't know that he paid somebody off, Amy. We didn't know that he paid a woman off or that right before the election and we don't know where those funds came from. There are possible campaign finance violations, there are possible other violations --
KREMER: And, Joan, I would say, if there's an FEC campaign violation, that will be dealt with, but I really don't care what Donald Trump does with his own money. I mean, what concerns me more is paying Iran, who is our enemy $435 billion of taxpayer money, in a congressional slush fund, our taxpayer dollars being cover -- used to cover up indiscretions.
Whatever happened with Donald Trump and his own money, that's his business.
BURNETT: So, Amy, here's the thing. When it comes to what the American public think now, 71 percent of Americans believe Michael Cohen paid off Stormy Daniels to protect the Trump campaign, right? So, that's not the FEC lawyers, right, but that's the American public's opinion. Vast majority.
Forty-three percent of Republicans, which is not a majority, but it is up 14 points since February. So you can see directionally where this is heading, 56 percent of white evangelicals believe it was for this purpose. That's up 10 percent since February.
And, of course, we know that when he said on Air Force One he didn't know about the payment, at the time, he did know about it. So, that -- that was not true at the time.
Do these numbers show, Amy, to you show any erosion of support to President Trump's supporters because they don't believe him? Or are they saying, we think he's lying but we don't care?
KREMER: Erin, I really have a hard time believing that somebody would go in and cast a ballot based on Stormy Daniels. I think that's ridiculous. People go in and cast ballots based on jobs and the economy and what affects them personally, how they can take care of their family. But to go in and cast a ballot because of a porn star --
BURNETT: Someone's morality or character or integrity.
KREMER: Erin, we didn't elect him to be our pastor, our husband. We elected him to be the president of the United States, and he's doing a damn good job of it.
WALSH: But you know the damaging number in that new poll, Erin, is that he's down to 34 percent support among women. Only one out of three women right now thinks this president is doing a good job. That is it dangerous both for the Republicans in the midterms and dangerous for him in 20 if he gets there.
So, it's not -- I don't think you can say that this has no effect on people's voting or no effect on the way people think about him. And the steady, you know, just the dirtiness of it all, and the fact that more and more keeps coming out. I don't think he can sustain this forever. And then there are the questions about lying, where the money came from, who paid whom.
[19:35:03] Just Rudy Giuliani, I mean, does he work for Robert Mueller? I mean, the things that he said this weekend are so unbelievable. The idea that Michael Cohen just has money sitting around and he can pay off her and him and her, and that's why he's a fixer, that's what he does. I mean, he paints a picture of such incredible corruption, it's just -- it's kind of ridiculous. I mean, he's hurt the president more than Stormy Daniels.
BURNETT: Final word to you, Amy.
KREMER: Yes, I just think at the end of the day while it's sensational and it gets clicks and ratings and all that, I think at the end of the day, does it affect us personally? Does it matter? No, I don't think it does. We knew that he was not perfect when we elected him. We elected him
for a reason. And he's doing his job. It's about job performance.
BURNETT: All right. Thank you both very much.
WALSH: Thank you.
KREMER: Thank you.
BURNETT: And next, President Trump by his wife's side today, but a new report suggests they are living totally separate lives. The details, next.
Plus, broken promises. President Trump may be losing support among a key group of voters, just hours before this crucial primary.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you feel burned?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes. Yes. I feel burned for a number of reasons.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BURNETT: Tonight, President Trump steps aside and Melania takes center stage. The first lady speaking for about 11 minutes as Trump sat in the audience.
[19:40:00] Melania finally unveiling her formal platform to help children fight everything from online bullying to opioid abuse.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MELANIA TRUMP, FIRST LADY OF THE UNITED STATES: It is our responsibility as adults to educate and remind them that when they are using their voices, whether verbally or online, they must choose their words wisely and speak with respect and compassion.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Kate Bennett is OUTFRONT.
And, Kate, press secretary Sarah Sanders cut the briefing short this afternoon. The president and members of the cabinet attended. This was clearly a priority for the White House that everybody focus on Melania today.
KATE BENNETT, CNN WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: That's very true, Erin. Ivanka Trump and Jared Kushner were also there, as was Kellyanne Conway, and a number of aides.
This was Melania's day. I think the East Wing was really hoping it wasn't a busy scheduled day for the president, turned out not to be, although he did tweet a little bit this afternoon ahead of her planned speech. But, yes, this was the big day.
This was the day that Melania Trump finally let the public know what exactly she intended to do under her vast umbrella of helping children. She narrowed it down to three main categories, one being the opioid crisis and how it affects families, the second being the health and well being of kids, both emotionally and physically. And then finally, third, as we just saw the social media aspect, being kind online, privacy and safety on the Internet, and, of course, combating cyber bullying.
She made those remarks about being positive online, not using it for negative impact, with her husband sitting a few feet away as we right there in the front row. So, clearly, it's a message that she's doing in spite of the president's prolific tweeting and often name-calling online. Yes.
BURNETT: All right. Thank you very much, Kate.
You know, White House correspondent for American Urban Radio Networks, April Ryan, joins me now.
And, April, Kate points out there's, you know, obviously, some pretty painful reality in the first lady taking on cyber bullying and being kind online and the first lady is well aware of that.
APRIL RYAN, WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT, AMERICAN URBAN RADIO NETWORKS: Yes, she's well aware of her husband's cyber bullying. He's considered by some, well, many I would say, in different sectors, one of the biggest bullies. He will call you out in a moment's notice.
And she stood in front of him and basically said she wants to show young people how it's done and do it right and they will pick up those habits. I wonder if the president will change, but there are realities, there are a lot of realities that she's dealing with.
This is -- this is a first lady who is not culturally American, but she is learning the ways. This is not just an American issue, these are not just American issues. These are international issues. You know, cyber bullying is an international issue.
BURNETT: Yes.
RYAN: Social media is international. And also, the opioid addiction issue, it's not just here, but it's abroad as well. And we'll see if she takes that message abroad as she rolls this out for the next four years.
BURNETT: And, April, you know the president was there today, several members of his cabinet. Look, it was a show of force.
And yet, there was a detailed report in "The Washington Post" today that we both saw, the president and first lady leading separate lives, sleeping in separate bedrooms. A story says, quote: At Mar-a-Lago, the president golfs or dines with politicians, business executives and media parliaments on the patio while Melania is often nowhere to be seen. According to several current and former aides, the president and first
lady often do not eat together in the White House either. They spend very little to no time together, said one long-time friend of the president.
You've been covering the White House for decades, April. How unusual is this?
RYAN: Well, let's look -- let's be real about this, the reality of it. This is a first lady who is hearing multiple scandals about her husband as she's trying to do her work, and, you know, she is a woman.
We saw that during the Clinton years, when Hillary Clinton and Bill Clinton went off to Martha's Vineyard and there was a dog and Chelsea Clinton in the middle. You know, this is real. Yes, she's the first lady of the United States, but she's dealing with real issues.
Now this rumor has been circulating for a long time and "The Washington Post" reported it. Many of us have heard it.
BURNETT: Yes.
RYAN: We have not had it substantiated. We have asked people, you need to take pictures, and no one has come up with pictures.
But what's at issue, Erin?
BURNETT: Yes.
RYAN: Other presidents have had texture with their first ladies. I think about Michelle Obama, how Barack Obama and Michelle Obama, the first lady and former president of the United States, they would talk about having dinner with their children at night and then he would go back to work. And they would talk about the thorns and roses of the day. We would hear things like that.
And then with George W. Bush, we would hear how he would bring then First Lady Laura Bush coffee in bed. We would hear about those things, and how sometimes he would help her out with her wooden puzzles that she would do. And they would go to bed, and I remember this vividly, how he would say, you know, I don't care what event was going on at the White House. He would say, let's go to bed at 9:30.
We don't hear about these things with this family.
[19:45:01] And she's not as involved in the West Wing as maybe people would like to see, and they would like to see more of that. It doesn't help that she scats his fingers away, and she did that French kiss on the side today, not the kiss on the lips.
BURNETT: Yes. All right. Thank you very much, April Ryan. Maybe she doesn't want to get up at 5:30 a.m. when he's on his tweet storms.
OUTFRONT next, some of Trump's supporters now turning on the president ahead of a crucial primary tomorrow that could affect who wins Capitol Hill. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don't like his outbursts and his inappropriateness.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: And the president's head-scratching habit on Twitter. What's with the random capitalization?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BURNETT: Tonight, President Trump warning West Virginia voters to stay away from a controversial Republican candidate at the polls tomorrow, tweeting in part, quote: problem is, Don Blankenship, currently running for Senate, can't win the general election in your state no way.
Blankenship, a former coal CEO, spent a year in prison for his involvement in one of the nation's deadliest mine disasters. And it's not just West Virginia holding a crucial primary tomorrow.
John King is OUTFRONT in Indiana.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JOHN KING, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The animals here are pets, not moneymakers.
[19:50:02] So, excuse the humor.
One of the cows is Big Mac. The pig, Kevin Bacon. There are crops up the hill. One reason Beth Henderson has second thoughts about voting for President Trump.
BETH HENDERSON, TRUMP 2016 VOTER: We are involved in an agriculture business and so, yes, tariffs is a big deal.
KING: It's much more than policy.
HENDERSON: I don't like his outbursts and inappropriateness with the public and his scruples.
KING: What hasn't changed is her sense that Washington needs big change. Husband Terry briefly joined Indiana's Senate race, but it got too expensive. The Hendersons now support another Washington outsider, businessman Mike Braun.
HENDERSON: I just think it's time again for, you know, get someone else in there, new blood.
KING: Braun's two opponents are Republican congresswomen, cardboard cutouts to him in this primary campaign of gimmicks and insults.
MIKE BRAUN (R), INDIANA SENATE CANDIDATE: I'm a lifelong businessman, and conservative and outsider. KING: President Trump won Indiana by 19 points. He's neutral in
Tuesday's Senate primary, but he is the litmus test.
REP. TODD ROKITA (R), INDIANA SENATE CANDIDATE: I humbly stand before you and ask you for you this Sunday, a pro-Trump, conservative fighter in the United States Senate.
KING: Congressman Todd Rokita called Trump vulgar in the 2016 primaries but now says he'd be the most reliable vote for building a border wall and confronting sanctuary cities.
Raju Chinthala sees another asset. Rokita was secretary of state and has won statewide.
RAJU CHINTHALA, ROKITA SUPPORTER: But I think who will in November elections? That's most important.
KING: Chinthala is a speech pathologist and helps Indiana expand ties with his native India. He doesn't like all the spending in Washington, but he's still solid with the president.
CHINTHALA: National security, I think he's doing a great job. The economy is great job.
KING: Greensburg is Congressman Luke Messer's hometown. Stories Diner, a local landmark. Messer needs big turnout here and hopes this helps.
REP. LUKE MESSER (R), INDIANA SENATE CANDIDATE: President Trump should get the Nobel Peace Prize for what's happening in North Korea.
KING: Renee Elliott was leaning Messer, now undecided because the final debate was mostly about loyalty to Trump.
RENEE ELLIOTT, UNDECIDED INDIANA PRIMARY VOTER: They never mentioned Carrier, and they never mentioned my job, they never mentioned anything.
KING: Her former job. Candidate Trump forced Carrier to drop a big ship to Mexico, but the company later did move a lot of the jobs.
ELLIOTT: He got a lot of votes.
KING: Do you feel burned?
ELLIOTT: Yes, yes. I feel burned for a number of reasons. He is not Superman, he can't save everything, I'm sure. But he could have stopped this.
KING: Carrier has fewer jobs here now. Here by Rexnord plant, where Brian Bousum worked alongside his son, shipped all of its jobs to Mexico.
BRIAN BOUSUM, TRUMP 2016 VOTER: I voted for President Obama twice. I will say this about President Trump, at least he brought it to the table. KING: Brian is skipping Tuesday's primary, his hope for change
fading.
BOUSUM: Today, you ask me, do you support President Trump, I would say yes, but I can't tell you I will tomorrow. It just depends on what he gets done.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
KING: Erin, to watch those candidates, just to see all the proof you need that even in Mike Pence's Indiana, this is very much Trump's Republican Party. And when you listen to Trump voters, you'll learn something else. One, just like in the Obama years, loyalty to the president doesn't necessarily mean much in the midterm years, and even in ruby red Indiana, we found some obvious cracks in the president's 2016 coalition -- Erin.
BURNETT: All right. Thank you very much, John King.
And those, of course, crucial votes tomorrow.
And next, Trump loves the capital, not the building, the letters. Jeanne Moos explains.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:57:50] BURNETT: Tonight, how President Trump is literally rewriting the rules. Here's Jeanne Moos.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JEANNE MOOS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: He is the king of capitalizing whether it's wrong or right.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: With the original travel ban.
MOOS: Maybe someone should ban the president from traveling to upper case. In a single tweet Monday, the president capitalized, witch hunt, no collusion, coordination, probe, obstruction and fighting back?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Grammatically, it doesn't make sense.
MOOS: That rule about capitalizing proper nouns?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It is a hoax.
MOOS: They don't even have to be nouns to get the capital treatment. Phony witch hunt. We hunted for a pattern in President Trump's chaotic grammar.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There is no chaos, only great energy. I've got to say, man, if this president thing doesn't work out, Trump would be dope in writing fortune cookies.
MOOS: Twitter account debuted to policing the president's grammar tweeted, Dear Mr. Stable Genius, stop capitalizing nouns.
But President Trump seems to have a capital strategy, these don't seem like mere mistakes.
Sure, comedians make fun of his language skills.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The rule if you can't read, you can't be president.
MOOS: But business writing instructor Mary Collin (ph) and other experts think there is a method to the president's capitalizing madness.
UNIDNETIFIED FEMALE: Enable them to be buzzwords, right?
MOOS: Though not sure lover is a buzzword the president wants to be accenting. Since Twitter has no bold or italics feature, capital letters are the next best thing to shouting in all caps.
Take it from Gollum. Capitals are precious to be the president.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Fake news media has never been so wrong.
MOOS: Angling for the upper hand, he counts on upper case. No such thing as capital punishment in grammar, even if the president's grade is --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sad.
MOOS: Jeanne Moos, CNN, New York.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BURNETT: That is one of his favorites to capitalize. All right. Thanks so much to all of you for joining us. See you back here tomorrow night.
"AC360" with Anderson starts now.
