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Erin Burnett Outfront
10 People Dead, At Least 10 Wounded In School Shooting; 10 People Dead In 22nd School Shooting This Year; Awaiting Shooting Suspect's First Court Appearance; Shooting Suspect Makes First Court Appearance; ATF Agents Surround House Connected To Suspected Shooter; ; FBI Informant Not Planted Inside Trump Campaign; Royal Wedding for Prince Harry and Meghan Markle Revealed. Aired 7-8p ET
Aired May 18, 2018 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[19:00:00]
ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST: OUTFRONT next, breaking news, the accused shooter in the Texas high school rampage set to make his first short appearance this hour as police are searching for more bombs. The FBI right now, using bomb tech at the shooting scene to try to find more.
Plus, the suspect is a 17-year-old who played football. Students say he's also been showing up to school in along trench coat, pictures of jacket with Nazi symbols actually pinned to it.
And Trump and his allies say, an FBI informant was planned within his campaign. U.S. officials say that's not true. Even, Rudy Giuliani says Trump doesn't know. So why are they talking about it?
Let's go OUTFRONT.
And good evening, I'm Erin Burnett. OUTFRONT tonight, the breaking news. The 17-year-old high school student charged with capital murder today for killing 10 people in Texas high school is expected to appear in court any moment. It's this high school in Santa Fe, Texas, devastated today by yet another American school shooting. Nine students and one teacher dead tonight. At least another 10 injured.
And tonight, a second person in custody. An 18-year-old. Who according to one law enforcement official is believed to be a possible accomplice of the shooter. This comes as we are learning chilling new details about the shooter himself and his plot. According to officials, he is Dimitrios Pagourtzis. Officials say he was armed with his father's shotgun and a revolver. Started shooting just this classes were starting this morning. There was panic and chaos. Students were running for their lives with their hands in the air.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I heard three shots. I called my mom and heard four more shots.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I heard so many people saying that like there was gun shots and now like people were dead.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I was scared for my life. Nobody should go through this, nobody should be able to feel that in school.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BURNETT: And tonight, the discovery the reveals just how much carnage, the alleged gunman wanted to inflict. A law enforcement officials says, pipe bombs and pressure cookers were found nearby the school and at the school. And they're looking for additional devices at the hour. They're right now using bomb techs, K-9s to process the scene. That's what the FBI is telling us at this moment.
Nearby, investigators searching a trailer. They believed the suspect assembled at least some of the bombs there. Where you see on your screen. In just a moment, I'm going to speak to a student who was inside the school when the massacre began, he knows the alleged shooter.
First though, let's go to Nick Valencia, he has OUTFRONT, he is live in Santa Fe. And Nick, obviously we have a court appearance happening any moment, this hour. We know K-9s are looking for more bombs. What more are investigators saying to you about the shooting tonight?
NICK VALENCIA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Erin, the depressing reality of what happened here earlier this morning in Santa Fe is now starting to set in, in the community. The federal authorities are also considering bringing their own charges against the 17-year-old, they say they try to send a message and to keep this from happening again.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're making entry.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Shots fired, shots fired.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: More shots fired. Additional shots fired.
VALENCIA (voice-over): Gun shots rang out at Santa Fe High School in southeastern Texas just after classes started this morning. The shooter walked into an art class around 7:30.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Still have several more shots.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He's shooting. He's in the art room. We've got shots fired right now, guys.
VALENCIA (voice-over): Nine students and one teacher killed. An additional 10 people were injured, including school resource officer John Barnes who was shot in the elbow. Survivors describe harrowing scene inside the school.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: All teachers they're telling us to run, run, run, go. Like run. Me and my friend, Ryan Calber (ph) reach to the floor so we could get shelter and that's when I called my mama.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's like instinct here, you're scared, you're traumatized so you're running as fast as you can.
VALENCIA (voice-over): Parent received the unthinkable call. An active shooter inside their child school.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If you would have heard what I heard this morning, the fear in my loved ones voice because of my son being in that classroom --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Really scary. Really, really scary.
(OFF-MIC)
VALENCIA (voice-over): The 17-year-old Dimitrios Pagourtzis is in custody and is believed to be the shooter. The Texas governor said authorities are speaking to two other people in connection with the crime. On his Facebook page last month, the accused gunman posted a photo of a t-shirt with the words Born to Kill.
In addition of the use of a shotgun and 38 caliber revolver during the shooting, explosives were found nearby that could have caused much more damage.
WALTER BRAUN, SANTA FE ISD: There have been explosive devices found in the high school. And surrounding areas adjacent to the high school. Because of the threat of these explosive items, community members should be on the lookout for any suspicious items.
[19:05:03] VALENCIA (voice-over): Law enforcement says the explosive devices included homemade pipe and pressure cooker bombs. As well as a Molotov cocktail. Sources tell CNN that investigators have searched a nearby trailer where it is believed the explosives were assembled. The students of Santa Fe High School now have to grapple with being the latest school on a growing list affected by a mass shooting.
DAKOTA SHRADER, SANTA FE HIGH SCHOOL STUDENT: Nobody should have to go through this. Nobody should feel that pain. It hurts my heart to see this.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
VALENCIA: About a mile away from where that shooting happen this morning, at a local gymnasium where family members and parents are coming to try to make contact with loved ones that they still have been unable to reach. It was just a short time ago Erin, that I spoke to a young woman who says that her aunt is a permanent substitute at Sante Fe High, she still hasn't been able to reach her since this morning.
And real quick, it is worth noting, that this high school shortly after the parkland shooting happened on Valentine's Day, went through their own scare where they were put on lock down after a school threat. That nothing happened then. But today, it was the real thing. Erin.
BURNETT: All right. Thank you very much.
And, you know, you may have seen on your screen. This is a 22nd school shooting of the year in United States of America.
Texas Senator Ted Cruz spoke today. He was angry after another mass shooting in his state.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SEN. TED CRUZ, (R) TEXAS: Texas has seen the face of evil. What happened this morning here in Santa Fe defies words. The agony, the hell, the parents of this community is going through is unimaginable. There have been too damn many of these.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BURNETT: He's right about that. And too little has been done to stop them, and they are hurting students. Listen to this young woman. A survivor whose life was changed forever this morning.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's been happening everywhere. I felt I've always kind of felt like eventually it was going to happen here, too. So, I don't know. I wasn't surprised, I was just scared.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BURNETT: OUTFRONT now, Aidan Gomez, he's a student at Santa Fe High School. His mother gave us permission for him to be on with us tonight and he knew the suspected gunman. He was on the school's football team with him. So Aden, look thank you so much for doing this. I -- you know, unimaginable to imagine what you are feeling and going through tonight. What happened Aidan?
AIDAN GOMEZ, STUDENT, SANTA FE HIGH: Around first period, we're in first period for about 30 minutes and a fire alarm went off. When the fire alarm went off, we started evacuating. And my classroom is right by the special needs of classroom, so they were evacuating at the time we were. And usually during drills, they evacuate about 15 minutes before us. So, I knew something had to be wrong that they weren't evacuated before us, so as they were evacuating, I held the door open for them and we stood on the sidewalk as we would for a regular drill. When the teacher came running across the school yelling at us telling us to run. So we ran to the highway. Highway 6 and that's when she stood on the highway, stopping traffic, telling us to get across the highway.
So, we went behind this building and, you know, automotive and we took cover behind there for about an hour as they took a head count of everyone. And after they got everyone counted for, we loaded buses up and we all came here to the Alamo where we reunited with our families.
BURNETT: And Aidan, you know, I know that you knew the suspected gunman. What do you know about what he did today? What can you tell us?
GOMEZ: I know he was wearing the same trench coat that he wore all the time. And I've heard a lot that he was also wearing a shirt that he posted on his Facebook.
BURNETT: Which was that the one we've been looking at, the Born to Kill?
GOMEZ: Yes, yes ma'am.
BURNETT: And I know you knew him and you've been, we're looking at the shirt now that he had posted on his social media, on his Facebook. What were your interactions like with him?
GOMEZ: He was kind of a quiet kid. Every time he try to start conversation with him, he just kind like laugh. Wouldn't really continue on with the conversation. He didn't really like interacting with other students.
BURNETT: Was he Aidan an outcast? Was he picked on? Do you anything about -- I mean what can you tell us about sort of his role socially in the school?
GOMEZ: He won't really picked on. He was kind of an outcast. Kind of how he dressed. Everybody like looked at him different because he wore the trench coat with the badges on there. And I don't believe that he was picked on.
BURNETT: No, but he wore that trench coat, it sounds like you're saying all the time.
GOMEZ: Yes.
[19:10:02] BURNETT: When you heard that it was him, what was your first reaction Aidan?
GOMEZ: I was kind of surprised. I didn't think he would do something like that. He didn't -- doesn't seem like that kind of kid.
BURNETT: And obviously nine of your fellow students were killed today. A teacher was killed. There are others in hospital tonight. Do you know any of the victims?
GOMEZ: Yes, ma'am.
BURNETT: What can you tell us about them?
GOMEZ: They were nice students. I'm sure they're families loved them a lot. And school is going to be different without them.
BURNETT: Aidan, thank you. I know it's going to be hard. Just even trying to process this. Thank you so very much for being willing to speak with me.
GOMEZ: Yes, ma'am.
BURNETT: Aidan Gomez, as you heard there, a student, someone who knew the alleged shooter. He hardly had to say.
I want to go now to Art Roderick, former U.S. marshal and Juliette Kayyem, former assistant secretary for the Department of Homeland Security. And Art, you heard Aidan say he was sort of an outcast, but by choice, not picked on. That he always wore that trench coat. He was saying that he -- even thought that he was wearing that Born to Kill shirt today. What do you take away form that?
ART RODERICK, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Well, I think where the investigation is going now, I mean we look at his Facebook page, there's not a lot of information on there, but obviously he's wearing a trench coat, kind of a dark look. I don't know if he had the swastikas on there or the iron cross on there, but I think what they're doing right now is they're out ruling -- ruling a lot of law enforcement people out there not just the police department, but also FBI, ATF, U.S. Marshals, DEA, anybody that's on these task forces right now, to assist in what I've been hearing Erin, is that they're rounding up anybody that could have any contact with them. Either recently or in the past.
So they're picking up a lot of people and talking to them and also, you know, the students on the ground there. Also provided a bunch of intel. So --
BURNETT: Right.
RODERICK: -- there's a lot going on right now. A lot of information flowing in.
BURNETT: Yes.
RODERICK: And they will nail this down fairly quickly as the to who else could have assisted him with this particular crime.
BURNETT: And on that point, Art, are you hearing anything? I know --
RODERICK: Yes.
BURNETT: -- you know, you heard our reporting, an 18-year-old that one law --
RODERICK: Yes.
BURNETT: -- enforcement official tells us just believe to be a possible accomplice is now in custody. Do they feel that they have anyone who could have actively helped? Or what else are you hearing?
RODERICK: I'm hearing, they're looking for other people out there. At least one or two more specific people, that either went to that high school in their recent past or currently or in that high school, so, they're casting a wide net here as they should to gather as much information as they can, because it just appears to me somebody else knows something out there. Or somebody could very well have assisted him.
BURNETT: And Juliette, you know, we also now know right about these pipe bombs, right? That they were -- they have K-9 teams now looking for more, right? That he was assembling them in a trailer. That there were some outside the school. They're looking now inside the school, they have these FBIs, these K-9 teams. What is that say to you? Bombs and many of them.
JULIETTE KAYYEM, CNN SECURITY ANALYST: So, it says two important things about today and why I do think today is different, not only because he assailant, does not have this kind of record that we've gotten used to in terms of interactions with law enforcement --
BURNETT: All right, I'm sorry Juliette I just want to interrupt you briefly. As you finish your point. Right now, everybody, you're looking behind that door line is the suspect. The 17-year-old alleged shooter, his first court appearance you can see there. Just making sure there isn't anything to hear here for everybody. It doesn't appear this is, but this is the first court appearance that you're looking at.
We're going to keep monitoring this as this comes in, in Galveston, Texas, where the alleged shooter is now appearing in court. Obviously has been charged with capital murder. And Juliette you're talking about why, what he did is different.
KAYYEM: So, right -- so we can see doesn't have the (INAUDIBLE). So, the first factor is of course the IEDs. The -- you know, the explosives. That makes me think like as we heard from law enforcement statements saying is Art is confirming, that there may have been people involved. That's very hard to plan on your own. You're a 17- year-old boy. How are you purchasing this step, where are you testing it, it's expensive. You know, I mean those kinds of things are factoring into a belief that there might have been others helping him. So in some way, this is a lot like Columbine, which also involved two people.
BURNETT: All right they appear to be talking, so we're going listen in. I'm sorry to interrupt again, let's listen.
[19:15:04] UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And you have been charged with aggravated vault against the public servant. I'm denying your bond on both charges. You have to right to pick (ph) counsel. You have to right to remain silent. You have the right to have an attorney present during interviews of these officers or attorneys representing the state.
You have to right to terminate that interview at any time. You have the right to request appointment of counsel. If your indigent and cannot afford, you have to right the examining trial. You're not required to make a statement, any statement made by you may be used against you. Are you a citizen of the United States?
DIMITRIOS PAGOURTZIS, SANTA FE HIGH SCHOOL SHOOTER: Yes sir.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are you a citizen of the United States?
PAGOURTZIS: Yes, sir.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are you requesting consideration for a court appointed attorney?
PAGOURTZIS: Yes, sir.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are you out on bond for any other charge?
PAGOURTZIS: No, sir.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm going to ask you the sign the front page, which is just acknowledging that I read your rights this afternoon. You're not entering a plea today.
(OFF-MIC)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm going to have you sign a second time requesting consideration to be appointed a court appointed attorney and a third time saying that you'll keep your appointments and tells if you change your address or phone number.
(OFF-MIC)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: One more time right here please, saying that you're requesting that court appointed attorney.
(OFF-MIC)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm sorry.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The next window.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, the next window. Over here. Do I need to do it over again?
(OFF-MIC)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All right, any questions?
PAGOURTZIS: No.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All right. We are finished. They're going to work on the application later. OK.
BURNETT: And now they're leading him away as we watch that, taking the court appointed attorney. What's your reaction to that, Juliette? Obviously he was there with his handcuffs on.
KAYYEM: So the, you know, some justice sort of plays itself out here. I mean, in other words, that he's going to face a capital crimes. This is going to be a stay case. I don't see any reason why there were there would be federal charges at the stage, unless we learn something about motivation, which would make it a federal crime, but I think that this will be a state case and depending on if he's talking or not, we understood that he was talking earlier find out more about motivation.
I think that's clear here, both motivation and then of course is there a conspiracy or are others. You need to make sure this community continues to be safe. There are exposes around that we can't seem to account for right now. And so just ensuring this day is over.
BURNETT: Art.
RODERICK: Yes. I mean that just same to me feel like a standard initial appearance as rights were read to him. He answered a couple of questions. They establish identity that's part of all the initial appearance. And he was denied bail based on not only the homicides, but also the assault on the two resource officers which were public officials. So this is what we see in any crime like this. I think from this point on, we just move on from here and hopefully, law enforcement was able to get some information on the additional debrief they had with him.
BURNETT: Right and of course, Juliette they're in a race right now, because they don't know how much of these explosive devices there are. They don't know where they are. They don't know if anyone else was involved, right.
So, as you point out, is still concerned about whether there could be anymore risk. But what do you say about fact there were so many and obviously none of them went off. Right -- as whether he was intending them to later. I mean it's unclear at this point whether that was 100% a failure or not. But it didn't explode while he was putting them together. In other words, it would seem there have been a lot of practice or precursor work?
KAYYEM: Absolutely. You can't just put these together in day. You either there's training, there is purchase of materials. So, you know, to the extent that he seems sort of come out of nowhere, no one seems to have any hint that this was about to happen, there were activities that he did to clearly be able to purchase the explosive materials and that's the question of -- are there others involved.
I will say one thing that those of us who've been looking at these school shootings for a while there's been troublesome and just concerning, is very similar to what happened the terrorist organizations in which they had to keep upping the ante because you can't just be a terrorist, right. And so in other words, that's what led to al-Qaeda using four airplanes.
In the school shooting instance, you're not seeing just school shootings, you've now seen at least one person now try the wretch it up to say I'm not just a school shooter, I'm something bigger, whatever it is that motivated him.
RODERICK: Right.
KAYYEM: So, that's just concerning.
[19:20:01] BURNETT: Extremely is concerning. Thank you both.
And next, our breaking news coverage continues. We are just learning that neighbors of the suspected shooter reported hearing an explosion this morning obviously it could being credible significant here as we assembled the timeline and the intent and the motive. Details on that.
And students injured in the mass shooting. Some of them tonight still fighting for their lives. We have the latest on their condition. We'll go to the hospital tonight. And President Trump accusing the Feds to planning a spy in his campaign. His attorney though Rudy Giuliani says, they have no idea if even that is true.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BURNETT: Breaking news, CNN just learning that neighbors of the suspected school shooter say they heard an explosion from what appear to be the suspect's house and that explosion happened around 5:40 a.m. this morning. And that's incredibly significant because we know of course that there were multiple pipe bombs near and at that school and this 5:40 a.m. would have been just a couple of hours before the attack at the high school in which the shooter allegedly killed 10 people. Nine students and a teacher.
Just moments ago, the 17-year-old made his first court appearance. We saw that there, eerily quiet and calm in contrast to the carnage and chaos that he cause this morning. Police say he was armed with a shotgun and a revolver. We understand that both of those belonged to his father. Investigators are looking into explosive devices as I said found in the school and also in a vehicle believed to have been assembled in the trailer you see there.
[19:25:00] Right now, there are FBI, K-9 team trying to find more explosives. They're talking to others possibly that could have been involved or known something. The question is, could anyone have known what happened and why did he do this? Who is he? Alex Marquardt is OUTFRONT.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ALEX MARQUARDT, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Tonight, the shooter in custody. Wearing a jail's orange jump suit. In some photos online, Dimitrios Pagourtzis looks like a typical teenager with peace and love symbols on a black baseball cap. His alleged actions on Friday were anything but and his social media profiles are now offering clues to a dark side. Less than three weeks ago on Facebook, Pagourtzis posted this chilling picture, a t-shirt with the words born to kill.
The same day, he posted another image of a long black coat pinned on it among other symbols was Nazi iron cross which he said stood for bravery. On the collar, communist hammer and sickle representing he claimed rebellion. Possibly the coat he was known to often wear.
DUSTIN SEVERIN, STUDENT, SANTA FE HIGH SCHOOL: He doesn't talk the many people either and he keeps to himself. He wears a trench coat every day and it's like 90 degrees out here.
MARQUARDT (voice-over): And on Pagourtzis' Instagram account, the tools of death. A pistol and serrated knife laying on a bed. The caption reading, hi followed by an expletive.
In other post, an arcade game using a sniper riffle to take out targets. Today, authorities said a second young man, 18 years old, was arrested as a possible accomplice. The shooter they said had two guns and authorities found explosives in and near the school.
The governor of Texas added that the guns used, a shotgun and 38 revolver were his fathers and legally bought. Journals written by Pagourtzis, also showed that he planned to commit suicide after the attack.
GOV. GREG ABBOTT, (R) TEXAS: The shooter has the information contained in journals, on his computer, in his cellphone, that he said that -- not only did he want to commit the shooting, but he wanted commit suicide after the shooting. As you probably know, he gave himself up. And admitted the time that he didn't have the courage to commit the suicide, that he wanted to take his own life earlier.
MARQUARDT (voice-over): It was also on Facebook that Pagourtzis' confirmed that he went to Santa Fe High School. He claimed he would be joining the Marine Corp, writing that he'd start next year, but the Marines said they don't have a record of him.
The 17-year-old junior had played on the JV football team, score reports indicate that he was a stand out player and at one point in sixth grade, a standout student as well on the honor roll.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MARQUARDT: Erin, the only red flag that the authorities say was around Pagourtzis was that t-shirt which said Born to Kill and that warning sign was posted on April 30th was clearly missed. Now, the governor of Texas said today, that other than that, there were no reason to be worried about Pagourtzis, there was no -- there were no arrests, there was no criminal record. He had what Governor Abbott called a clean slate. Now that Facebook page has been taken down today by the company. Erin.
BURNETT: Right, Alex thank you.
And now, criminologist and behavioral analyst Casey Jordan along with former FBI assistant director for the criminal investigative division, Chris Swecker.
Chris, let me start with the breaking news here. ATF agents now say neighbors have said they heard an explosion at the shooter's home at about 5:40 a.m. this morning. Obviously, that was only about what two hours before this began. What does that say to you?
CHRIS SWECKER, FMR FBI ASSISTANT DIRECTOR: Yes, Erin, it raises questions about what he was doing. Obviously, there was a quite a bit of preplanning here. I mean, I'm hearing reports of a pressure cooker bomb. I'm hearing reports of other types of bombs. You can't learn how to do that in school at age 17. You learn that on the internet or other sources. And we know it goes back several weeks. He has two of his parents guns. You have to wonder how he got his hands on those guns. And who was paying attention to what he was doing.
Well, I'm not going to, this isn't Parkland we had all these red flags and warnings pop up, but people are always, people that are closest to the shooter are noticing things and should be picking up on things, particularly the parents in this case.
BURNETT: And on this point Casey, we don't know much, but 5:40 a.m. obviously is a time neighbors would be home. Parents would ordinarily be home. We don't know what they did, what their hours were.
CASEY JORDAN, BEHAVIORAL ANALYST: Right.
BURNETT: But, we do know that the guns that he had on him today were his father's.
JORDAN: Right.
BURNETT: But we don't yet know anything about what law enforcement had been able to learn from this family or these parents.
JORDAN: Yes. And I'm sort of impressed by how quickly we've gotten a lot of good information, but we still don't know anything about his family situation. A lot of the things we look at are not just the personality, but the family situation, the social situation, the peers and what they're doing media, online that sort of thing. The big red -- and the big missing link right now is the family.
But you've got to keep in mind, Columbine kids stayed up all night long building bombs in their basemen and their parents never knew and they were in same house.
BURNETT: Yes.
JORDAN: I think that that bomb going off 5:40 this morning is what triggered him to choose today to go and do the massacre at the school.
[19:30:08] He knew neighbors had to have heard it. And that means if somebody might come around --
BURNETT: But actually could have been --
JORDAN: Yes.
BURNETT: --as opposed to a practice of the intentional day, something happened to it because of the noise, he said, well, I'm going to do it today.
JORDAN: And what if police come around, wondering what that explosion was, looking for what's going on in his trailer. Oh my gosh, if they find out all this stuff, I'm going to get caught, so I might as well just, you know, the jig is up, let's go. It doesn't seem like it was terribly well planned. The other big question is the accomplice. Did -- why wasn't he a part of the shooting? Did he help him build the bombs? So those two big questions. The accomplice and did the parents have any clue?
BURNETT: Yes.
JORDAN: Those are the things we really need to find out.
BURNETT: And Chris, we know nothing at all about this, you know, possible accomplice, right? We know an 18-year-old young man who is now also in custody, right, and there could have been an accomplice, but we don't yet know what role this person played or, you know, why they weren't part of the actual shooting today.
CHRIS SWECKER, FORMER ASSISTANT FBI DIRECTOR, CRIMINAL INVESTIGATION DIVISION: Certainly. We don't know if they're witting or unwitting. We don't know whether this person shared in ideology, whatever it was. You know, he apparently was studying Nazism and he had some very dark -- sort of dark side to him, the trench coats. Perhaps he was looking back on Columbine.
But, as I said, there's always sort of a social network around these people who really aren't in the best position to pick up on red flags. Just didn't happen in this case.
BURNETT: Yes, I mean --
SWECKER: I will say, though, I mean --
BURNETT: Yes, go ahead.
SWECKER: Sorry, going off in another direction, it sure is very fortuitous that we had a school resource officer in place and I think that's the best practice as I go around and do school security assessments.
BURNETT: Right. I mean, you'd rather have them than not have them but, you know --
SWECKER: Right.
BURNETT: I'm not trying get into politics here. But, I mean, you know, these things shouldn't be happening to begin with and you still had 10 people who were killed today.
Let me say, Casey, the governor says, the governor of Texas, Greg Abbott says, they were either nonexistent or imperceptible red flags. I just want to play what Governor Abbott said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOV. GREG ABBOTT (R), TEXAS: And here, the red flag warnings were either nonexistent or very imperceptible. There is from his Facebook page a T-shirt that says "Born to Kill." That would be maybe the only if not the foremost warning sign.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Obviously, the governor wouldn't be speaking if he weren't confident about that. Is it possible that at this point they're really confident enough to say there were no warnings?
JORDAN: No. The foremost warning sign is access to firearms. And if his father had some in the house or he was able to get them, that's the number one thing that should be considered a red flag. Now with social media, understand kids are always, especially in the teenage years, tend o flirt with expression. They love their First Amendment rights, they love, you know, to look rebellious and angry and latch on to dark things.
I have worked in high schools. There are kids with far darker pasts than this. But the point is that the warning signs we always find after the fact. The question is who is watching for them as they go.
BURNETT: Right.
JORDAN: Are the parents aware of what's happening, what he's doing in the middle of the night, what kind of Web sites he's on, what kind of music he listens to.
BURNETT: We just don't -- we don't have those answers yet.
JORDAN: We don't know yet.
BURNETT: Chris, what we do have right now, you know, we had just seen the 17-year-old alleged shooter appear in court, right? The first court appearance, because as you heard the governor say he planned to commit suicide, and then didn't have the ability to do it. The Judge Henry just spoke a moment ago about what happened in that court and I wanted to play it for you.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JUDGE MARK HENRY, GALVESTON COUNTY: He apparently was cooperating with the police. Answering questions, agreed to interviewed, waived his right to remain silent. So that's just what they told me up until this point and that's consistent with what I saw.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Chris, what does that say to you? He's saying he was cooperating.
SWECKER: Not surprising someone of that age, 17 years old, cooperating before the lawyer comes on the scene and frankly, the officers are going to get as much out of him as they possibly can before he does get a lawyer, so I don't expect that to continue until, you know, maybe a strategy later after the -- if he consults with a lawyer, but I expect him to clam up pretty soon.
BURNETT: And what else are they going to be looking for, for signs? Because again we don't know anything about the family. We don't know a whole lot yet fully about social media at least that has come out, or what he was doing or what his relationships were sort like or in fact even if there is only one person who may have been involved or if there are others.
JORDAN: Right. So I think that, you know, what they're going to find out, what they'll be interested is, was there a specific event, how long has he been thinking about this. You know, the fact that he played football two years ago or was an honor student five years ago is really irrelevant. I'm interested in what's happened to him in the last few months. These things happen most often in the springtime closer to graduation.
And he's about to enter his senior year. Certainly the most stressful of your high school years. He talked about joining the Marines, but they had no record of him applying.
[19:35:04] Did he feel like he was about to fall off a cliff? Did somebody break up with him? What happened that made this seem like the right thing to do in his head? We don't know yet, but we'll find out.
BURNETT: All right. Thank you, both.
And more on this breaking story. The Texas attorney general now, Kim Paxton, joins me on the phone.
And Attorney General, I appreciate your time. A terrible day for Texas and for this country. I know you have been briefed just moments ago. Obviously we have seen the suspect now appear in court. What can you tell us from your latest briefing, Attorney General?
KIM PAXTON, ATTORNEY GENERAL, TEXAS: Well, actually there's not a whole lot new. A lot of which have been talking about. So really no warning signs. Still trying to figure out if we've missed something on that front that would have given us clues ahead of time. Obviously, you know, we're looking at another person and just continuing to do our investigation.
BURNETT: And when you say looking at another person, is it fair to say you believe this person was involved, helping, witting or are you unsure at this time?
PAXTON: At this point, I wouldn't want to comment on that. I think you'll be hearing things very shortly.
BURNETT: All right. So that means that there is something to know that hopefully we'll know very shortly. Are you --
PAXTON: I'm actually saying no comment on that.
BURNETT: OK.
PAXTON: I'm not giving -- I'm not (INAUDIBLE) away.
BURNETT: OK. Are you looking for others? Are you confident that that person, the relevant person has been found? Or are you also at this point -- are they looking for others?
PAXTON: In this type of investigation, you're always looking to see if there were others. I'm not saying there were, we haven't yet if there were, but we are definitely pursuing all options. Law enforcement from both the federal state and local are looking at every possible angle. Everything related to his background. His friends, all of that is going to be looked at to see if anybody participated in helping them to do. And obviously if they're out there, we want to know. BURNETT: Do you -- at this point do law enforcement know how many
explosive devices there were? The IEDs, the pipe bombs, the pressure cooker bomb. Do you know? Are they still at this point looking to see if they have found them all?
PAXTON: They're still investigating, they're still looking to make sure that they have found them all. So the answer is no. I don't -- we don't know everything yet.
BURNETT: And to this point about no red flags, what makes you all so confident that there weren't any?
PAXTON: Well, just confident about what we know now. I mean, this is obviously an investigation that just started today. So it's not going to be over anytime soon. It may be that after pursuing this with as many resources as we've got behind this, with so many law enforcement people, we may find red flags. But at this point, we don't have any, which is obviously unusual. So it may be at some point we do find something because it's just not the typical. Typically warning signs when somebody goes off and does something this horrific.
BURNETT: And at this point, do you have any sense as to motive?
PAXTON: Not any. But I will say this, what's nice as far as finding motive is we actually have a live suspect.
BURNETT: Yes.
PAXTON: And so many of these cases, these people are, you know, they don't end up coming out alive. And so you end up, you know, wonder about that for the rest of your life. So that is one good part that we will have the opportunity to try to figure that out as we go along.
PAXTON: Attorney General Paxton, I appreciate your time. Thank you, sir.
PAXTON: Well, keep us in your prayers. Thank you.
BURNETT: And we will do that. There are 10 people who were killed today. Nine of them students , one of them a teacher. Eight of the injured students who -- now some of them have been released, others are fighting for their life -- were sent to Clear Lake Regional Medical Center. It is in Webster, Texas. Dr. Safi Madain leads, I'm sorry, the emergency room team that treated those patients and those students.
Dr. Madain, thank you for your time. So sorry about what you have gone through today, what your team has gone through, but I know that you've been saving lives. What can you tell us about the patients who are in your hospital tonight?
DR. SAFI MADAIN, ER MEDICAL DIRECTOR, HCA CLEAR LAKE REGIONAL MEDICAL CENTER: I can tell you that out of the eight patients that came in, six were sent home. And the two that are here, one remains in critical condition. One of them is still in fair condition. But they have improved. BURNETT: They have improved. Thank God for that. Can you tell us
what sorts of wounds they have? Obviously we understand that this would have come from gun shots, but is that consistent with what you saw?
MADAIN: Yes, ma'am. That is exactly what we saw today.
BURNETT: Dr. Madain, our affiliate, KTRK, obviously where you are in Texas, spoke with a survivor who had been shot in the head but survived. And the bullet actually came out just behind his ear. We have video here of -- behind this child's head. Did you see injuries like this? I mean, obviously, it's amazing and incredible that this child seems to be OK and is released but was shot in the head.
[19:40:03] MADAIN: Yes. You know, some injuries, people do OK. Right? The bullet goes in, hits soft tissue, it comes out at the other end without hitting any of the vital organs, (INAUDIBLE), so they do really well. Unfortunately, not everybody is in that situation. Some people, these bullets do hit vital things, and so there are different situation and that's the two patients that we have here are examples of that.
BURNETT: And Dr. Madain, you said one of them is in fair condition, one in critical. You said they both improved. What happened this morning, though? I mean, you know, you all are there, you're always ready for anything, but this is something of course that, although it has happened elsewhere, something no one ever expects to happen. What happened when you first heard that there had been a mass shoot?
MADAIN: So as a level two trauma center, we can provide just as high level care as level ones. I mean, so we've been practicing for this. We've been preparing for this type of incident. This mass casualty. We go through drills and essentially today we're able to initiate all of the processes that we've been practicing and talking about for the last several years, and so as soon as we heard that a mass casualty was coming in, we just took action.
All the resources came down to the ER. Our trauma surgeons came down to the ER. Nurses, techs, lab, and we were there to receive the patients.
BURNETT: Of course you saved so many lives. And thank you so much for taking the time to join us and our prayers are with the two that you still have and that their condition continues to improve and that they will go home.
Dr. Madain, thank you.
MADAIN: Thank you.
BURNETT: And next, President Trump claiming an FBI informant was planted in his campaign. He's called it a bigger scandal than Watergate. But what are the facts? We have new details tonight.
Plus, we are just hours away from the royal wedding and we have new details from the ceremony. We're going to go live on the grounds to Windsor. There's a keyword. That the vows apparently leave out.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:45:52] BURNETT: New tonight, President Trump says there was a spy in his campaign during the 2016 election. Trump quoting FOX News personalities today on Twitter, writing, "Apparently the DOJ put a spy on the Trump campaign. This has never been done before and by any means necessary. They're out to frame Donald Trump for crimes he didn't commit. Really bad stuff," adds the president.
And Trump then wrote, "Reports are there was indeed at least one FBI representative implanted for political purposes into my campaign for president." He adds, "If true, all time biggest political scandal."
This comes as Trump's lawyer Rudy Giuliani admits Trump is promoting this theory even though they have absolutely no idea if it's true.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RUDY GIULIANI, PRESIDENT TRUMP'S ATTORNEY: Here's the issue that I really feel strongly about with this informant, if there is one. First of all, I don't know for sure nor does the president if there really was one. We're told that.
CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: Told that by who?
GIULIANI: We're told by people who -- for a long time, we've been told that there's some kind of infiltration.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Very clear that he doesn't know.
Evan Perez is OUTFRONT. And Evan, you know, this is a huge charge being led. Informants, spy. I mean, what do you know about this informant?
EVAN PEREZ, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Well, that's right. I mean, it's very irresponsible to be calling -- using those words and especially because you know it's driving the president perhaps to a place where he might actually do something about it and the problem is that here's what we know about what this person was doing.
This is a person who was a confidential source for the FBI. He provided information to the FBI and to the intelligence community in the past. And he interacted with some people who were associated with the Trump campaign. This person was not implanted as the president said in the campaign. This person wasn't sent as an undercover spy to infiltrate the campaign. None of those words I think would describe this situation.
This person simply came forward and provided information to the FBI that was relevant. And keep in mind, all of this happened well before Robert Mueller, the special counsel, was appointed. This is when the FBI was looking into Russian -- what the Russians were up to with regard to the 2016 election. So all of this is really what the FBI is supposed to do, which is if
they see a foreign power trying to interfere with the election, they're supposed to investigate it.
BURNETT: Right.
PEREZ: And if someone comes in and provides information, they're supposed to accept that and see it and see what matches up. And we're told that some of the information, the source came forward with matched other information that the FBI and the intelligence community was getting, Erin.
BURNETT: All right. Obviously hugely significant, what you're saying, right? Because what you're saying, Evan, is somebody was there, had interactions with the campaign, whatever it might have been, who had been a long time source. Heard or saw something and then contacted the FBI. So what we're just saying is, there was no zero placement, right, or implanting.
PEREZ: Right.
BURNETT: This person just happened to be there and then reached out, right?
PEREZ: Right. The usual adage of see something, say something, that's what happened.
BURNETT: All right. Which obviously puts a very, very different light on this than that which the president is putting out there.
All right. Evan, thank you very much.
I want to go now to former DOJ official Francey Hakes and former FBI supervisory special agent and former special assistant to then FBI director James Comey, Josh Campbell.
And Josh, you heard Evan's reporting and you heard what the president has been tweeting out there. The speculation that he's putting out there, obviously with the clear implication but it's true and he believes it. Spy?
JOSH CAMPBELL, FORMER FBI SUPERVISORY SPECIAL AGENT: Yes. Well, it all depends on whose side of the investigation one happens to find themselves. If you are the subject of the investigation, you're going to do everything you can to try to discredit those who are doing the investigation. If you're on the side of law enforcement, then you see a person like this for what they are. A confidential --
(CROSSTALK)
BURNETT: Except for this president who oversees the FBI. This is his, this is his law enforcement.
CAMPBELL: Well, it is in a sense and I think, you know, I saw him tweeting I think it was yesterday or the day before, Obama's FBI, which, you know, I think that -- when you get into using the possessive form about a law enforcement agency, I don't think that, you know, paints a picture that he wants it to. I think, you know, if you look at his tweets, he said that this was really bad stuff. An all-time biggest scandal. I think he's right, but not in the way that he thinks. And, you know, the reason I say that is because I know as a former FBI agent, in order to use an investigative tool as invasive, as a confidential human informant, you have to meet a certain set of standards and you have to get the highest level of approval, you know, within the Justice Department, particularly if you're involving, you know, a presidential candidate.
[19:50:08] So the fact that the FBI agents were able to meet those hurdles, to overcome those challenges and use this informant tells me that they were on to a criminal investigation the results of which the campaign may not like.
BURNETT: Francey, you have more concern?
FRANCEY HAKES, FORMER DOJ OFFICIAL: I do. I disagree completely with Josh. He says that they had enough for a criminal investigation, but that's not what they were doing. This wasn't a criminal investigation. This was a counterintelligence matter. And the standards are massively different.
You're talking about invading Americans' privacy using tools that are originally designed to collect foreign intelligence from foreign sources. The standards are different. Everything is different. And here, they treated it like a routine criminal matter, but then they applied for a FISA application --
CAMPBELL: You don't know that.
HAKES: That's what it looks like. They only applied for a FISA application. We don't see any criminal search warrants that were taken by a federal district judge. It's all about the FISA application and those. And one more thing really quickly. Everyone is talking about this potential source inside the Trump campaign. What I don't hear anybody talking about is that oftentimes, law enforcement agencies refer to surveillance as a source.
I don't know if that's the case here. But what no one's talking about is that they could very well have been referring to surveillance.
BURNETT: But they are -- our sources are saying it was a U.S. citizen. So it would imply if it's a person. I understand your point. I'm not saying 100 percent sure, but I am saying our sources do imply that it was a U.S. citizen so would be --
CAMPBELL: Can I clarify something real quick?
BURNETT: Go ahead, Josh. Yes.
CAMPBELL: Yes -- no, let me just say that I mean you're right in one sense that national security investigations aren't exactly like criminal investigations. But when you look at investigative tools, the domestic intelligence operations guidelines and the attorney general guidelines, that you know very much about from your time there, all set the standard for the investigative tool that you can use. And those are the same when it comes to the use of an informant.
Someone who's been signed up as a confidential human source. So again if that was used, if people were coming and, you know, presenting information that they allege was criminal, that could be violating criminal statutes that have to do with counterintelligence investigations.
BURNETT: So --
CAMPBELL: I think it shades things to try to look at, you know, too much of two different things.
BURNETT: Now there is the question then of getting to the bottom of this, right, Francey? And when it gets to this, Devin Nunes, obviously the highly controversial chairman of the House Intelligence Committee, has subpoenaed the DOJ. He wants any information he can get about this person, this source. The DOJ, the FBI, the DNI, they're all saying, no way, no way, because if we give it to you, it could pose a grave risk to this source's life.
Do you think that's real? A grave risk to this person's life?
HAKES: Well, Erin, I don't know whether it's real or not. Obviously, that's what the DOJ is saying. Unfortunately, when they applied for their FISA warrant, they told the FISA judge that they had extra sources in the media that confirmed what Steele was saying in the dossier. Well, it was Steele himself who was the media source. So I don't actually trust, and it pains me to say it, I don't actually trust what the DOJ is saying now, because they've said things all along the course of this investigation that have turned out to be completely wrong.
CAMPBELL: Like what?
HAKES: And again, I disagree with what Josh said, very specifically. There is a massive difference between a counterintelligence investigation and a criminal investigation. The standards are completely different. Everything --
CAMPBELL: With respect, you just --
BURNETT: Josh?
CAMPBELL: With respect, you just made a charge without any basis. You said a lot of what DOJ has told us had turned out not to be true. What are you talking about?
HAKES: Well, I just gave you a great example. When they said to the FISA judged that dossier had been verified by separate media sources when it turns out the dossier author was the separate media source.
CAMPBELL: You're quoting the Nunes memo.
HAKES: This is not pander to the core.
CAMPBELL: That is something that people are looking to and saying, this is a dubious claim. So to say that the DOJ is out of control is insane. Let me just say if I can --
(CROSSTALK)
HAKES: Well, I didn't say the DOJ was out of control. I never said that.
CAMPBELL: But you're saying they're telling us things that are not true, which -- that is a serious charge for people who are charged with upholding the rule of law.
HAKES: But it's clear that they are telling us things that aren't true.
CAMPBELL: It is not true.
HAKES: The FBI has specifically said multiple times during the course of this investigation that the release of national security information will endanger national security. And then we get unredacted copies and there's nothing about it that endangers national security. Those are misrepresentations that are material to the American public and they ought to know it.
BURNETT: Final word, Josh.
CAMPBELL: No. I would ask for examples because I mean, that's a broad brush claim to say that the FBI is saying that something is going to cause danger if it's released and then for you to make the determination that oh, no harm, no foul, there's no threat to national security, we don't get to make that decision. That's within the Department of Justice and obviously those in Congress that are overseeing them.
BURNETT: All right. We'll have to pause there. I appreciate both of your time and look forward to having you back to continue to conversation.
Next, we do have new details. They've just been released about the royal wedding, which, of course, is set to begin in hours.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:58:04] BURNETT: And we are just a few hours away from the royal wedding. We have some newly released details at this hour. A first look at the program of events for tomorrow morning. Prince Harry and Meghan Markle will, of course, get married with details on the music, the speakers, and Harry's mother, Princess Diana, and how she'll be involved.
Nick Watt is OUTFRONT from Windsor Castle. And Nick, what are you learning?
NICK WATT, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Erin, let's start with that Princess Diana nod. Now the final hymn of the service tomorrow will be "Guide Me, Thou Oh Great Redeemer," which was also the final hymn at her wedding -- at her funeral, I'm very sorry, more than 20 years ago. Also, it's very obvious that Meghan Markle from this order service is
not going to be the kind of royal bride who just does what she's told, tows the line, bows down. Her mark, her imprint is all over this order of service. There's an American flavor, the choir is going to sing the Benny King classic "Stand By Me," and the processional music at the very end is going to be "This Little Light of Mine," sung by Etta James, which was of course a civil rights anthem.
They also -- another little interesting nugget is that Meghan Markle is actually going to walk herself down most of the aisle. She will walk alone. Her dad was supposed to be here to give her away. He is unwell and can't make it, so she will walk on her own.
Prince Charles will join her for a little bit of the way, and then he will back off, she will walk the final steps to the altar, where she will marry Prince Harry. She will become a royal. She will no longer be what they call over here a commoner. She will be a royal and her life will undoubtedly change completely forever -- Erin.
BURNETT: And they're all there, Nick. I only have a few seconds, but they're all there, right? Separate hotels, but they're all there nearby tonight, right? Maybe sleeping as they await.
WATT: Oh, yes, Meghan and her mum staying about 20 minutes away. They will drive here together in the morning in one of the Queen's limousines.
BURNETT: All right. Well, of course, so many around the world will be watching. With all of the challenges in the world, it's nice to have a wedding for people to join in and caring about.
Thanks so much, Nick.
And don't miss our coverage of the royal wedding. It begins tomorrow morning at 4:00 a.m. Eastern. Thanks for joining us. Anderson is next.
