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Erin Burnett Outfront
Trump Casts Doubt on Election Results for Second Time in 24 Hours: "Not Sure" Election can be Honest; Rep. Adam Smith (D-WA) Discusses About Trump's Reaction if He Loses The Election; Louisville Braces for Second Night of Protests After No Officers Charged Directly with Death of Breonna Taylor; Trump Holds Rally with Few Masks, Little Social Distancing as CDC Projects Up to 226K Coronavirus Deaths by October; Protesters Gather as Louisville Mayor Extends Curfew. Aired 7-8p ET
Aired September 24, 2020 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[19:00:00]
CHARLES RAMSEY, FORMER PHILADELPHIA POLICE COMMISSIONER: That's a huge piece of this and the Feds right now have that.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST: Chief Ramsey as usual, thanks very much. Joey, thanks to you as well. To our viewers, thanks for watching.
Erin Burnett OUTFRONT starts right now.
ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST: OUTFRONT next, Trump for the second time in less than 24 hours casting doubt on the election results and not committing to a peaceful transfer of power. Will he try to use the military? The Chairman of the House Armed Services Committee says yes and he is OUTFRONT.
Plus, the Mayor of Louisville, Kentucky extending the curfew tonight. Protesters gathering at this hour, calls growing for the Attorney General to release the evidence on the Breonna Taylor case that he says exonerated those police. The woman behind the #sayhername is OUTFRONT.
And the CDC tonight projecting up to 23,000 more coronavirus deaths in the next three weeks. This as one of Trump's top health officials says politics will play no role when it comes to a vaccine. Let's go OUTFRONT.
And good evening. I'm Erin Burnett.
OUTFRONT tonight, an assaults on America's democracy. For the second time in 24 hours, the President of the United States casting doubt on whether he will accept the results of the election.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. President, are the election results only legitimate if you win?
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: So, we have to be very careful with the ballots. The ballot sets a whole big scam. We want to make sure the election is honest and I'm not sure that it can be. I don't know that it can be with this whole situation unsolicited ballots, they're unsolicited, millions being sent to everybody.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CLAYTON: All right. This fear mongering comes after President Trump refused to commit to a peaceful transfer of power if he loses to Joe Biden and his Press Secretary today, Kayleigh McEnany, did nothing, nothing, to clarify these alarming comments.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are the results legitimate only if the President wins?
KAYLEIGH MCENANY, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: The President will accept the results of a free and fair election. He will accept the will of the American people.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So for clarity, if he loses and it's free and fair, he will accept that.
MCENANY: I've answered your question. He will accept the results of a free and fair election.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Free and fair, according to whom? Well, in this case, according to Donald J. Trump, who, if you actually look at his record, has already said the answer to the question. He has clearly said that the election is not free and fair if he is not the victor.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: The only way we're going to lose this election is if the election is rigged, remember that.
It'll end up being a rigged election.
The Democrats are trying to rig this election, because that's the only way they're going to win.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: OK. So he's saying there's no way he can lose unless the election is rigged, so Kayleigh McEnany's point is farcical, if he'll accept the results of a free and fair election. He's already made that clear. He said he won't accept them unless he wins.
But what will he do if he loses? Well, let's go and check the tape.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Will you commit here today for a peaceful transferral of power after the election? And there has been rioting in Louisville, there's been rioting in many cities across this country, red and your so called red and blue states. Will you commit to making sure that there is a peaceful transferral of power after the election?
TRUMP: Well, we're going to have to see what happens. You know that I've been complaining very strongly about the ballots and the ballots are a disaster and ...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I understand that, but people are rioting. Do you commit to making sure that there's a peaceful transferral of power?
TRUMP: We want to get rid of the ballots and we'll have a peaceful - there won't be a transfer, frankly, there'll be a continuation.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are you suggesting that you might not accept the results of the election?
TRUMP: No, I have to say ...
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: I mean, again, get rid of the ballots and you'll have a peaceful - there won't be a transfer, right? Again, if he wins, he accepts it.
And to those out there and I'm sure there are plenty of you who say, come on, come on, don't take him literally on this. He's just stoking the flames. Well, if that's you or if you are Republican Sen. Mike Braun of Indiana who today told Politico quote, "Trump Stokes the fire sometimes. If you took it seriously it would be alarming. And I don't think that's the case."
Well, Senator Braun, just listen to Trump supporters who are right now at his rally in Jacksonville, Florida. They are taking Trump seriously. Here are two, our Boris Sanchez just went for the purposes of what we're laying out here to ask them what do they think? Here is what they told him?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Do you think that if we get to election night or the following days and Biden winds up somehow becoming the winner, do you think it's rigged?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh, yes, very much so.
SANCHEZ: What are the chances, do you think, that this election might be rigged?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'll tell you, with the mail-in ballots, we don't like. I'll tell you, there's a lot of cheating that's been exposed, especially over the last four or five years. So your President brought this to our attention. So this stuff was going on that nobody really knew about and it just happened and it happened and it happened.
[19:05:00] SANCHEZ: On election night, or in the days after, if it shows up that
Joe Biden won, in your opinion would that be the only way that Trump could lose, that it would be a rigged election? Is that the only way Joe Biden can win?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Absolutely. I agree with that, because there's no way in heck our president is going to lose. But yes, it would be a rigged election, there was some type of cheating went on, what have you and I firmly believe that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: I want to play that whole exchange, because that last gentleman there says the president brought all of this to his attention. Yes, they take the president seriously. They believe him. They think if he loses, it's rigged.
So I guess I just have to be clear, again, that there is no evidence now of fraud, of rigging, none. And by the way, I guess one of the best people to listen to on that might be President Trump's own FBI Director, Chris Wray. He spoke about it today. Here's what he said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHRISTOPHER WRAY, FBI DIRECTOR: Americans must have confidence in our voting system and our election infrastructure. Now, we have not seen, historically, any kind of coordinated national voter fraud effort in a major election, whether it's by mail or otherwise.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: And yet, Trump's ardent supporters listen to him and, yes, they take him seriously. So yes, Sen. Braun, it is alarming.
Kaitlan Collins is OUTFRONT live outside the White House. And Kaitlan, the President is making sure he's supporters question mail-in ballots and you just heard two of them there that belief that if Biden wins, it's rigged.
KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes. And that's part of a month long effort by the President, Erin, to sow doubt about the outcome of the election. So what he said yesterday was provocative and he repeated it, of course, again, today, as you noted. But it is not new. It is part of this pattern of the President, eventually working his way up to this comment where he will not commit to a peaceful transition of power, if it comes to that.
And today, he was saying the reason he won't is because he's not sure that the results of the election can be legitimate and can be honest, was the word he used when he was asked, would you actually accept the results of the election if it's determined to be legitimate. That is not repeating what his Press Secretary told reporters earlier today. As you showed, she said if it's a free and fair election, the President will accept the results.
That's not what he said when he was pressed by reporters for a second time today on his comments from yesterday. So, of course, it is calling into question what does the President view as a free and fair election and we know that in the past, he said, if Joe Biden wins, it means the election was rigged.
So he is setting himself up for this showdown that clearly as you saw play out on Capitol Hill today, Republicans don't want to deal with because you saw them criticizing what the President had said without naming him. And the Senate went so far as to pass a resolution reaffirming their commitment to a peaceful transition of power because the constitution mandates it.
Now, this comes on a day when we have this unusual announcement from the Justice Department saying that they had found as part of this investigation nine discarded ballots, which they now say seven which are marked for President Trump, two they do not know who they were for, because those ballots are sealed, saying they were discarded. It's not really clear where they were discarded, Erin.
But we should note, the Justice Department had to correct their statement because after they initially issued it, it said nine more ballots were for Trump and then they said actually we only know that seven were for him, two we don't know. Reminder, this is all in Pennsylvania, 6 million people voted in Pennsylvania in 2016.
But it is notable that the Justice Department is going so far to put some statement out like this on their investigation, even though it was only nine ballots.
BURNETT: All right. Kaitlan, thank you very much. I want to go now to the Chairman of the House Armed Services Committee, Democratic Congressman Adam Smith. And I appreciate your time, Chairman, so you hear what the President says, Kayleigh McEnany says he'll accept a free and fair election. Well, he's laid it out extremely clearly right that it is rigged if he is not the victor, therefore not free and fair.
What do you think he'll actually do if he loses the election?
REP. ADAM SMITH (D-WA): Well, I think I can't imagine him conceding. I mean, this is a person who, basically, is a narcissist, so everything he says, everything he does is perfect as we've heard. He's not wrong about anything. He never made some mistakes. So we certainly could never stand up in front of the American people and say I lost. So he won't say that.
Now, that isn't the important part. The important part is what does his campaign do and what does his supporters do.
BURNETT: Yes.
SMITH: They will challenge ballots. And look, in a close election, we had an election in the State of Washington in 2004 where our governor won by 170 votes, I think. And so they're counting every ballot and looking at every ballot very closely. In those close elections, it's difficult. I don't think this election is going to be close, but I think the
President is still going to make up whatever number he has to make up and claim it was right and I think that really undermines our country.
BURNETT: So when he doesn't concede, what does that look like then to you?
SMITH: Yes. Well, what the President or does not say is irrelevant.
[19:10:02]
The states certify the election and if the states do what I fully expect them to do, which is to certify the election and the results to show that Joe Biden has won, the president loses and he can challenge a ballot, he can go on a bunch of different places, the courts are highly unlikely to agree with that. Highly unlikely to just on a whim and say, well, yes, OK, we're going to buy into your imaginary voter fraud argument.
And by the way, the State of Washington has been voting by all mail-in ballots and automatically sending ballots to every registered voter for, I think, at least 10 years now.
BURNETT: Yes.
SMITH: And it works perfectly. So what he says or doesn't say doesn't matter, it's what do the election board certified.
BURNETT: And it's also what his supporters do. You just heard two of them, right?
SMITH: Yes.
BURNETT: They believe this whole conversation he's put out there, they believe it, right?
SMITH: Yes.
BURNETT: They are taking it seriously.
SMITH: Absolutely.
BURNETT: Senator Braun, I hope heard that because he said, well, if they take it seriously, basically, then it would be alarming. Well, that's alarming. So then what happens though if they believe it's rigged and he's saying it's rigged, then what, the states tell him to go and he just go, do you think it just resolves itself?
SMITH: Yes. Well, there's a couple of layers of concern. Number one, what do his supporters do. And look, I mean, there were people who were complaining that Barack Obama was not legitimately elected president, but they didn't really do anything about it. But the alarming thing is the degree to which the President is actively supporting militias, we saw the vigilantes in Wisconsin who actually killed two people and the President expressed support for them. Well, what happens with these armed militias and vigilantes? Do they
take matters into their own hands? I think we're going to have to work very hard to calm that and then there is the mechanisms of government. And I have spoken to our defense leaders about this issue and there's two ...
BURNETT: You have to the military leaders.
SMITH: Yes, there's two very important points. I mean, first of all, they say we serve one president at a time. So no matter what, President Trump is going to be president until January 20th.
BURNETT: Yes.
SMITH: There's all manner of mischief he can do between here and there. He can't just unilaterally overturn the election. So come January 20th, he's out and all of the layers of government will no longer serve him. They will serve Joe Biden, if he wins, and if he's sworn in, and there's nothing he can do about that, but complain about it.
Now, the second thing is does he tried to order the military to defy that and what the military has made clear to me is they will not follow an unlawful order, period. For instance, if the President had ordered them into a city as he was threatening to do, they were prepared to say no, that is not a lawful order. We have no lawful reason to go there. And their oath is to the Constitution, much to Donald Trump's chagrin, it is not to him, it is to the laws and the Constitution of our country and they will uphold that oath.
BURNETT: Right. Chairman, I appreciate your time. Thank you very much.
SMITH: Thanks, Erin, I appreciate the chance.
BURNETT: And OUTFRONT now Lawrence Douglas, Author of Will He Go? Trump and the Looming Election Meltdown in 2020. Also, Professor of Law at Amherst, Amherst, OK, Williams. And Laura Coates former Federal Prosecutor. Thank you both very much.
Lawrence, so the title of your book says it all, Will He Go? Trump and the Looming Election Meltdown in 2020. What do you see happening here if the President refuses to concede?
LAWRENCE DOUGLAS, AUTHOR, "WILL HE GO? TRUMP AND THE LOOMING ELECTION MELTDOWN IN 2020": Well, what I worry about is that we need to connect two points. Back when Trump issued this tweet, raising the possibility to delay in the election, a lot of people focused on that, they deserve that that's kind of a preposterous notion. The President can't delay the election, but on that very same day, he issued another tweet that got very little attention and he tweeted the following.
He said must know election results on the night of the election and not months or even years later. And I think if we connect that point with his relentless attacks on the integrity of mail-in ballots, these kind of baseless attacks, we have to worry that what he's trying to do is trying to take whatever lead he might enjoy on November 3rd itself. And I do think again, it's possible that he would have a lead on November 3rd, because of the millions of mail-in ballots yet to be counted and he would try to then leverage that lead into a claim that he's been reelected.
And then in the subsequent days as that lead vanishes as these mail-in ballots become counted, well then he says, this is simply everything coming true that he has predicted, that is that the mail-in ballots are going to be contaminated by fraud, and again we have to go with the November 3rd results. And that's what I think is the deeper and disturbing politics behind some of his most recent claims.
BURNETT: Well, that is deeply disturbing, because that's going to sow doubt, the numbers start to change. Your scenario is alarming, but makes a lot of sense.
[19:15:01]
And Laura, to the point that Lawrence is making, the President's key focus right now is on mail-in ballots, right? And we all know that those ballots at least at this point are likely largely going to be cast by Biden voters, right? They are the ones who say they're going to vote by mail, Democrats overwhelmingly so, Republicans overwhelmingly in-person on election day. And the President has been saying this is a scam over and over. Here he is.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Do you know that I've been complaining very strongly about the ballots and the ballots are a disaster.
Ballots are missing, there's fraud.
When you see them cheating with those ballots ...
There's going to be fraud, it's a disaster.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: And Laura, his supporters, we just heard a couple of them and one of them I want to play that full exchange so everyone could hear it. They believe him. This is not they take him that they get the joke. They believe this.
LAURA COATES, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: They in fact are complicit if they believe it, right? The idea that our integrity or the democracy is in jeopardy if people exercise the right to vote in a way that many of our military members and our overseas citizens have done and many states across this country have done so. And particularly at a time when we have the pandemic looming overhead, making people have to make the decision between voting in person or potentially being proactive about voting early if it's available in their states.
This is also part of his general plan when it comes to replacing a Supreme Court justice because as Lawrence was talking about, he anticipates perhaps there being some discrepancy between the election night count and later on. I believe he's hoping and he hasn't been very quiet about this, that he will have nine justices seated to duplicate what he interprets as what happens in Bush v. Gore.
But, of course, that was not about whether mailed in ballots were valid, it wasn't about whether ballots had yet to be counted. It was about recount. So he misconstrues what that's all about, but it's all part of a general plan of a self fulfilling prophecy that frankly, the DOJ as a former voting rights attorney for the DOJ, we have never seen this level that he claims to have about fraud. It's just not present.
BURNETT: No. And Christopher Wray, Trump's own picked FBI Director made it very clear. And you're going to have some instances of maybe some fraud, maybe some mistakes that Pennsylvania case with things getting thrown away who knows what that is, but they're investigating each one of those, they're very small instances, Wray made it very clear, no mass fraud ever in history in a presidential or other election.
And Lawrence, the Pennsylvania Republican Party is now pushing back against a report from the Atlantic. And it basically said the GOP-run legislature there is trying to strategize already how to overturn the statewide results if Trump is the loser in Pennsylvania. So the scenario is if Biden is certified as the winner, Democratic Governor approves that and you get the Biden's slate of electors, but the Atlantic says the GOP lawmakers are looking at all kinds of ways to declare the results tainted to get Trump electors to basically flip the election.
That sends the whole thing then to Congress, actually. This is not the Supreme Court. This then goes to Congress, so explain what happens then, Professor.
DOUGLAS: So again, the scenario would be it's kind of like a repeat of what happened in 1876 back in this famous Hayes-Tilden catastrophic election in which you could have these swing states such as Pennsylvania, submitting conflicting electoral certificates to Congress. That is, it's possible, particularly if the election turns on relatively narrow outcomes of late counted mail-in ballots.
You could imagine, again, that let's say a Republican-controlled legislature in Pennsylvania recognizes that Trump has won and that the Democratic governor insist, no, of course, Biden has to carry the state. And so you now have these conflicting certificates that are submitted to Congress and it is Congress on January 6, 2021 which will actually open the electoral certificates in a joint session, it's meant to be a relatively ceremonial function in which they count up the electoral votes and declare a winner.
But if as in 1876, if you have these conflicting certificates and if you have a divided Congress, as it is now, with a Republican- controlled Senate and a Democratic-controlled House, then basically you have a stalemate. Then you basically have Congress unable to decide who has won the election and then we're really in a world of hurt.
BURNETT: Wow. All right. That was fascinating scenarios and incredible that we are in a position here where some of these may literally be on the table. We're now looking at states where you have the governor and the and the legislature split. Thank you both very much.
And next, protestors gathering across the country at this hour over the Breonna Taylor case. These are live pictures. This is Louisville, Kentucky. And we're going to go there in just a moment.
Plus, the FBI Director disputing Trump's claims that foreign nations are also part of this in committing large scale voter fraud.
[19:20:03]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WRAY: That kind of fraud at scale would be a major challenge for an adversary.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: And the President booed and jeered while paying his respects to the late Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:24:00]
BURNETT: The breaking news, protests growing in Louisville. That is what you're looking at right now. The Mayor has now extended the city's curfew all the way through the weekend. Protesters are continuing to express anger over the lack of charges in the police killing of Breonna Taylor.
It comes as official say the two officers that were shot during protests last night are expected to recover. Shimon Prokupecz is OUTFRONT from Louisville. And Shimon as obviously here we are, you got a curfew. You have dusk coming. What's the latest?
SHIMON PROKUPECZ, CNN CRIME AND JUSTICE REPORTER: Yes. So, Erin, I just want to take you to the scene here behind me. We were walking with these marchers. We were walking along with them. They were coming to this area. I'm going to step out of the camera here, because they found out that there were what appeared to be militia members who were parking here staying, it is a hotel parking lot and there was a confrontation between the protesters and these members.
They don't appear to be law enforcement, but they are wearing as you can see military fatigue.
[19:25:04]
They have long guns. All of them are carrying these long guns. They're wearing bulletproof vest.
The protesters said that they were coming here to confront them. And when they got here, they got into a confrontation. Obviously, we've been standing back because of the volatile situation here and out of concern for our safety. But things have now, as you can see, they're now leaving. The protesters are leaving. Some of the people who were standing here behind this fence were
telling the protesters to leave to walk away, because there was concern, there's a lot of gun power behind us and there was concern that perhaps someone would use one of those weapons. Of course, Kentucky is an open carry state.
So you have the militia members who have weapons here and now you have also protesters here who are carrying their own weapons. But certainly it seems like at least for now, things have quieted down here, Erin.
BURNETT: All right. Shimon, thank you very much. And I want to go now to the former Secretary of Homeland Security under President George W. Bush, Michael Chertoff. And Secretary, I want to actually talk to you, a lot about what we're seeing with the election, but just because of what we just saw there in that live shot from Louisville. I just wanted to give a chance for you to give some perspective here.
You have these sort of tinderbox situations going on now in various places across this country, where you have protesters there, you have militia with long guns. How concerned are you that a spark goes off here that could become much more serious?
MICHAEL CHERTOFF, FMR. SECRETARY OF HOMELAND SECURITY UNDER PRES. GEORGE W. BUSH: Well, I'm very concerned that you could have an outbreak of gun violence and we've seen a little bit of that in the past. I think it would be wise and I think they're doing this for the protesters who are focused on the terror location in Kentucky to step back and avoid direct confrontation, otherwise, someone is going to get badly hurt. And as far as the police are concerned, having a curfew and keeping the two sides separate, I think is a very, very important part of your mission.
BURNETT: I mean, it's just like you see moments like those and you just realize how, look, on how edge these situations are and how much on edge this country is. And part of the reason this country is on edge, also, Secretary comes from what we're seeing about the election. And the FBI Director today, Christopher Wray, again, at odds with the President.
At first, he said very clear that there's been no large scale fraud in voting in this country, continue to then say foreign adversaries, talking about foreign adversaries committing large scale fraud of the presidential election, again, on a different page from the president. Here is the director.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WRAY: Certainly to change a federal election outcome by mounting that kind of fraud at scale would be a major challenge for an adversary.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: He's talking about whether Russia or someone else right would be able to commit large scale voter fraud on mail-in ballots. He's saying he doesn't see that that is a legitimate thing. The President, though, of course, has again and again - here's what he said. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Will they be counterfeited by groups inside our nation?
CROWD: Yes.
TRUMP: Will they be counterfeited maybe by the millions by foreign powers who don't want to see Trump win ...
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: The FBI Director is saying large scale intervention in mail- in ballots from a foreign adversary doesn't make sense. The President is saying maybe by the millions, counterfeit ballots run by a foreign adversary. Does it disturb you to hear the President and his FBI Director saying such polar opposite things?
CHERTOFF: Well, Director Wray is exactly correct. It would be impossible, essentially, at scale to alter mail-in ballots. You have to have millions of people on grabbing ballots out of mailboxes and changing them.
BURNETT: Yes.
CHERTOFF: That's not going to happen. In fact, we just heard they're investigating nine ballots that were somehow disposed of and that's trivial in terms of the total number. What foreign powers will do is try to do exactly what President Trump has done, create doubt, skepticism and even cynicism about the outcome of the election. Because the game plan for Russia and other adversary powers is to shake American confidence in the result and put us into a state of disarray and disorder.
And so when the President says, well, we shouldn't count the ballots, we'll just have continuity and I'll continue. That's exactly music to Putin's ears. And that's the kind of message the Russians and other foreign powers are going to be amplifying going forward in this election.
BURNETT: So again, this is where we see this alarming difference, Director Wray, saying what you're saying, no widespread voter fraud and very clear that Americans should have confidence in the system. Here's the FBI Director today.
[19:30:04]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WRAY: Americans must have confidence in our voting system and our election infrastructure. And now we have not seen, historically, any kind of coordinated national voter fraud effort in a major election, whether it's by mail or otherwise.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: OK. So, that comports with what you're saying, it comports with the facts. But here's the president -- and, by the way, also his attorney general -- saying the opposite.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: You could be talking about large percentages of these ballots are going missing. There's going to be fraud. It's a disaster.
WILLIAM BARR, ATTORNEY GENERAL: Elections that have been held with mail have found substantial fraud and coercion.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: So, that doesn't comport with the facts. I don't know if you heard a few moments ago, Secretary, we actually spoke to a couple of voters at the Jacksonville rally the president is having tonight. They believe what the president has said, that if he loses, the whole thing was rigged, that it was fraudulent.
How worried are you about this?
MICHAEL CHERTOFF, FORMER SECRETARY OF HOMELAND SECURITY UNDER PRESIDENT GEORGE W. BUSH: Well, I'm certainly -- I think it's outrageous that we have a president and attorney general simply making up nonsense about the validity of our elections. And even common sense tells you that you can't alter the election results at scale.
What I worry about is this is an effort to lay groundwork for two things, one to discourage people from voting because they figure, what's the point, and second to create an atmosphere of resistance to the outcome, if, as I think he probably believes, Trump loses the election to Joe Biden.
And so, we have to be very careful to make sure that we reinforce the message, that there is no even remotely realistic possibility of large-scale tampering, that this is in the hands of state election officials, will be impossible to suborn them all in 50 states, and that this is really just what a magician does. You know, look over here while I perform my magic trick. It's performative, but it's not actually honest and realistic.
BURNETT: All right. Secretary Chertoff, I appreciate your time and thank you.
CHERTOFF: Thank you.
BURNETT: And next, an alarming new projection from the CDC, 23,000 more Americans could die from coronavirus in the next three weeks. So, what is the president doing about it? Well, possibly something, holding a rally with few masks and no social distancing.
And we're watching the live pictures out of Louisville, Kentucky. Protesters moments ago facing off with apparent militia members. The curfew is set to take effect there in Louisville shortly.
We'll go back on the ground in a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:36:42]
BURNETT: You're looking at live pictures there on the screen. That's President Trump. He is in Jacksonville, Florida, right now, holding a campaign rally. You can see no social distancing.
And we can tell you, from our reporters see few masks in the crowd except for the people right behind him who presumably know they would be on camera because of their position.
This as the CDC projects up to 226,000 coronavirus deaths in the United States by October 17th.
So, the math on that means 23,000 more people will die in the next 23 days. The average of 1,000 Americans dying a day continues unabated.
Boris Sanchez is OUTFRONT. He's in Jacksonville.
Boris, the pandemic and the enormous loss of life are not something you have heard anything about from the president tonight.
BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Erin. Politics taking precedent tonight for President Trump. This crowd is enormous, very large, as you noted, very few masks inside, and the Trump campaign really giving up on any semblance of following CDC guidelines coming from people appointed by this president.
I will step out of the way quickly as you can get a full appreciation for the size of this crowd. It is huge. People have been waiting outside for hours in line. Not wearing masks, shoulder to shoulder, and immense crowd here wrapping around the hanger. There is still an immense crowd outside trying to get in but couldn't. They are watching the president's speech on a large screen.
Something important that you don't see, there is a very sizeable portion of this crowd that are older folks, senior citizens, they are people who are most susceptible to coronavirus. Many of them are standing out in the Florida heat for hours become ill. In fact, within the last hour, a woman who's standing not far from us, not wearing a mask, became so sick that she threw up on the ground.
She's not the only one. A lot of people get ill at these rallies. Notably, Duval County, where we are, has had nearly 30,000 coronavirus cases, not many compared to other parts of Florida that have been hit harder. But I've spoken to several people who have driven hours and hours to be here. It's not a situation that's comfortable or safe to be in -- Erin.
BURNETT: All right. Boris, thank you very much.
You know, as Boris says, they have really given up on any semblance of pretending to follow CDC guidelines. The rally where Boris is actually taking place hours after Trump's own HHS secretary said that people should avoid settings wear wearing masks and distancing is not possible. And, of course, the president is now in such a setting created by himself.
Nick Watt is OUTFRONT.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ALEX AZAR, HHS SECRETARY: I want to reassure you and the American people, politics will play no role whatsoever in the approval of a vaccine.
NICK WATT, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Same interview, Secretary Azar falsely assuring us the president has always promoted masks.
AZAR: The president has been clear since his April guidance.
WATT: And offered unflinching praise for the president.
AZAR: Thanks to President Trump, we are in such a better place than we were five, six months ago.
WATT: Last night, President Trump said this about possible strengthening of FDA criteria for a vaccine.
REPORTER: Are you okay with that?
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Well, I'll tell you what. We are looking at that, and that has to be approved by the White House. We may or may not approve it.
WATT: Apparently, the FDA or HHS would normally sign off.
DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, DIRECTOR OF NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF ALLERGY AND INFECTIOUS DISEASES: Under normal circumstances, that decision is theirs.
[19:40:02]
The secretary approves it and that's it. Something that comes from without, that is not a scientific consideration, would be troublesome.
WATT: Meanwhile, in our actual life and death fight against this virus --
DR. ROCHELLE WALENSKY, CHIEF OF INFECTIOUS DISEASES, MASSACHUSETTS GENERAL HOSPITAL: We squandered our summer. We went into the summer with 20,000 new cases a day, and we are now double that.
WATT: Yesterday, more than 1,000 lives lost to COVID, for the first time in over a week. Average new case counts are rising in 21 states. Look at that huge red chunk of the country.
DR. ALI KHAN, DEAN, UNIVERSITY OF NEBRASKA MEDICAL CENTER'S COLLEGE OF PUBLIC HEALTH: As you look at that map, what you are seeing is an inconvenient truth, which is that many states allowed schools and colleges to reopen when they had not gotten the disease under control.
WATT: CDC data shows this summer, people in their twenties accounted for more than 20 percent of infections.
FAUCI: Right now, the infections in the country are driven more by young people, 19 through 25.
WATT: But the virus appears to be mutating to become more transmittable, but mercifully, not more deadly. That's according to one new pre-print study.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
WATT: Now, today, the governors of New York and Michigan have called for a congressional oversight investigation into the Trump administration's politicization of the response to this pandemic. They say that the scale of this tragedy is the direct result of President Trump and the federal government's deceit, political self-dealing, and incompetence -- Erin.
BURNETT: All right. Nick, thank you very much.
I want to go to Dr. William Schaffner. He is the liaison to the CDC Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices, also former epidemic intelligence service officer at the CDC.
So, Dr. Schaffner, you know, when you hear what Nick just said there, what he concluded with about concern about to see, politicization. Secretary Azar said politics will play no role in the approval of a vaccine.
Are you worried about this?
DR. WILLIAM SCHAFFNER, PROFESSOR, INFECTIOUS DISEASES DIVISION, VANDERBILT UNIVERSITY MEDICAL CENTER: Oh, for sure, Erin. Of course, I'm worried. Both the reputation of the FDA and the CDC, unfortunately, have been tainted because of political interference. Even just this recent FDA wishing to change the ground rules for the development of the vaccine has to go to the White House for approval.
That's totally inappropriate. It's never happened before. It should not happen. That's evidence of political interference with a basic scientific process.
BURNETT: And I just want people to understand the possibility of the potential of what damage is happening here. It's not just the damage to the institutions, which is serious and perhaps is going to happen for a long time. It's the vaccine itself and whether Americans will take it.
So, in the spring, 72 percent of Americans said they would probably get a vaccine available. Now, it's only 51. That is a plunge. That means -- I mean, by the way, if only 51 percent of people get, it you won't even get to a traditional definition of herd immunity. It wouldn't even work.
How big of a problem is growing skepticism?
SCHAFFNER: It's enormous. Once we do develop a vaccine, we want people to accept it, but there is a lot of skepticism, as you demonstrate, in the general population. But what's not represented is the skepticism and the concern in the medical profession. They are very concerned. I hear that, almost, literally every single day.
So, if physicians won't recommend it once it comes out, when they recommend caution, that will just hamper the vaccination process.
BURNETT: It's incredible when you say physicians are worried, because they're worried about the process, and now there is a another layer to this. We are talking about the politicization of the FDA and the process and the White House and the influence.
But now you have the Democratic governor of New York, Andrew Cuomo, saying that he is going to have his state conduct its own review of a potential coronavirus vaccine, which I just want to make very clear, is completely unprecedented outside the norm of how these things are done. It's not done that way.
But here's what he said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOV. ANDREW CUOMO (D-NY): Frankly, I am not going to trust the federal government's opinion, and I wouldn't recommend to New Yorkers, based on the federal government's opinion.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Is that helpful, or does that make this whole thing worse?
SCHAFFNER: Oh my gosh, not trusting the federal government's opinion about the validity, the rigor of a vaccine? What have we fall into? Erin, that's just painful, terrible.
BURNETT: Dr. Schaffner, I appreciate your time. A very sobering conversation. Thank you.
And next, Kentucky's governor joining, I'm sorry, the calls tonight for the states attorney general to release evidence in the Breonna Taylor case. The woman behind the campaign that has now taken hold around the world, #sayhername, is OUTFRONT next.
[19:45:02]
And then, something Trump does not hear often, but jeers were audible as he paid respects to Justice Ginsburg today.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BURNETT: All right. Breaking news, protests in Louisville continuing to grow. We showed you pictures earlier of what our Shimon Prokupecz said appeared to be armed vigilantes facing off with protesters. This is the second night of protests, following the announcement that no officers will be directly charged with the killer of Breonna Taylor.
I want to go back to Shimon in Louisville. And, Shimon, what are you seeing now, obviously, as it gets dark?
SHIMON PROKUPECZ, CNN SENIOR JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Yes. So, we were in that area, just a short time ago, where there was a confrontation between protesters, and those men. A lot of guns there. Of course, it's a very volatile situation.
Things calm down, and most of the protesters have come back here, to Jefferson Square. Of course, we are just over an hour away from curfew. The police, at around 9:00 been indicating that they will strictly enforce the curfew.
[19:50:01]
So, if a lot of these people are still here at 9:00, the police will move in and tell them to leave, and, possibly, make arrests. They make these announcements, then the police move in and make the arrests. For now, everyone is just gathered here. People are chanting, and they are marching around, and things, for now, from what we saw just a few minutes ago, much more peaceful as the protests continue to gather here in the square.
BURNETT: All right. Simon, thank you so much. We're going to continue watching these pictures.
I want to go OUTFRONT now, as we do, to Kimberle Crenshaw, founder of the #sayhername, also executive director of the African American Policy Forum.
And I appreciate your time, Kimberle.
So, Breonna Taylor's mother posted this portrait of her daughter on Instagram, the message was, it was still Breonna Taylor for me, along with the #thesystemfailedBreonna.
And an attorney for Breonna's family tells us they were notified about the grand jury's decision, to not directly charge any officer with her death, only two minutes before it was announced. Only two minutes.
What does that tell you?
KIMBERLE CRENSHAW, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, AFRICAN AMERICAN POLICY FORUM: Well, it tells me, frankly, that despite the fact that this is the one case where a black woman's lost of life to police violence has galvanized millions of people, not just around the nation, but around the world, can still lead to a moment in which the system tells us that at the end of the day, no moral, or legal, wrong has been done to her.
This is one of the continuing, long-standing, dimensions of being a black woman in this society. You are not safe anywhere. Not even safe in your own home.
So, what we're looking at now is the fact that even though these most egregious loss of innocent life happens, there is no allegation that she did anything to deserve this, that at the end of the day, the system could come to the conclusion that no harm, no legal harm, no moral harm, has happened.
So, this is what Say Her Name was designed to draw attention to. And hopefully, people can see that the problem is much deeper than a few bad apples.
BURNETT: And, you know, you have pointed this out, that as the tension started to focus the spotlight on violence, that it focused on black men, and, not on black women. You founded the #sayhername, which, now, is ubiquitous.
We can see that slogan on shirts, science, and the WNBA dedicating their entire season to that. Painted on the street in Louisville, and it's more obvious about Breonna Taylor. It's about black women, many others, who have been victims of police violence.
LeBron James, last night, tweeting that the most disrespected person on earth is the black woman. I promise you, ultimate vessel changes as much as I can and even more. Love to you queens, all over this country and beyond.
Kimberle, why is this campaign so important? Do you believe that the staying power here will continue past what we see now in the streets with Breonna Taylor?
CRENSHAW: Well, that's certainly, you know, what we hope. We've been laboring under this demand since 2014 when Fran Garrett brought her daughter's coffin, Michelle Cusseaux, to -- to the Phoenix city hall, five days after Mike Brown was killed, to draw attention to the fact that black women are still killed by the police as well.
The statement that LeBron James tweeted last night was a statement that is 60 years old. It was something that Malcolm X said. So, we're still in a period of time where we have to make people see that black women are also the subject of anti-black police violence. It is one of the most consistent aspects of our experience across history.
The problem, though, is that to really understand this and to see it, you have to be able to talk about race, and racism. You have to know about the history. This is what many of us have been laboring for decades, to talk about. Those of us who do critical race theory, the 1619 Project, which is a new articulation of it, whiteness studies, implicit bias.
And this president is telling us that we cannot even talk about these things. So, not only is this one of the most significant ways that America is failing its promises, but now, we are told that to even talk about these failed promises is anti-American.
BURNETT: So, let me ask you one question, because you have this conversation, and this one we need to have. There are things that happen that derail the conversation, right, awful things that happen, right, like violence, or rioting, and we have seen that.
[19:55:03]
The civil rights activist, Reverend Jesse Jackson, spoke about it, issuing a warning to protesters who are out there peacefully.
Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REV. JESSE JACKSON, CIVIL RIGHTS ACTIVIST: If you're smart enough to not turn your anguish, and anger, into self-destruction, and give Trump a commercial.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Are you worried about that? That does this violence and looting that is a part of some of this?
CRENSHAW: Of course, I'm worried. But most importantly, Erin, I'm worried about the fact that the responsibility for the violence is too often framed as the product of Black Lives Matter, and not to what we know, which is some of this violence, perhaps, even the majority of, it is coming from the other side of the spectrum, people who are trying to turn this unfortunate moment into, frankly, a civil war.
And we need to talk more about those who are creating the crisis out of this moment.
BURNETT: All right. Well, I really appreciate talking to you again, Kimberly. Thank you so much.
And also new tonight, President Trump, loudly booed today as he paid his respects to Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg at the Supreme Court.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CROWD CHANTING: Vote him out! Vote him out! Vote him out!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: The president will announce his nominee to replace Ginsburg on Saturday, one Republican to, watch the fight over the nomination over he thought would be Senator Susan Collins of Maine. She's now facing her toughest reelection yet.
Gary Tuchman is OUTFRONT.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
GARY TUCHMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Susan Collins has been a U.S. senator for almost a quarter century. The Republican senior senator from Maine bills herself as the senate's most bipartisan member, a reputation that is helped her win reelection in a state where there are more Democrats, and even more independents, than there are Republicans.
SEN. SUSAN COLLINS (R-ME): There is no one who has worked harder for the people of Maine, all of the people of Maine, and delivered more to them than I have. TUCHMAN: But one thing she helped deliver, is proving politically
troublesome for her. Susan Collins helped deliver a Supreme Court seat to Brett Kavanaugh in 2018.
COLLINS: I will vote to confirm Judge Kavanaugh.
TUCHMAN: She voted to confirm, despite sexual assault allegations against Kavanaugh from his high school days.
Collins' Democratic opponent is the speaker of the main House of Representatives.
SARA GIDEON (D), MAINE SENATORIAL CANDIDATE: My name is Sara Gideon.
TUCHMAN: At this campaign event, in the small town of Maine, listen to what this man tells Gideon.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I would never vote for Susan, she after she voted for Kavanaugh.
TUCHMAN: In the streets of Maine's largest city, Portland, and the scenic small towns, Kavanaugh's name comes up a lot.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ever since the Brett Kavanaugh issue, or the Brett Kavanaugh vote, I felt like she is not listening to what the people of Maine want anymore.
TUCHMAN (on camera): How did you feel when Susan Collins voted for Kavanaugh to be on the Supreme Court?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Like she is not listening to what people actually want.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm a Democrat, but I've always voted for Susan Collins until this year. She has just -- she has just capitulated.
TUCHMAN: Susan Collins is a reelection juggernaut, and has won her 3 Senate reelection bids, handily. The last one, in 2014, by around 37 percentage points. But this race, again Sara Gideon is a whole different ball game.
(voice-over): The most recent "New York Times"/Sienna College poll conducted just before Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg died show Sara Gideon with 49 percent, and Susan Collins with 44 percent. The results are within the poll's margin of error.
Collins is polling better than President Trump in the state. For some voters, the Trump factor is too much.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She's just in Trump's pocket. She is scared of him, as so many people are.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We used to vote for Collins, but I think she is too much of a Trump voter at the moment.
TUCHMAN: Meanwhile -- (on camera): Who you'll be voting for in the Senate election?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Susan Collins, definitely.
TUCHMAN (voice-over): Among voters who enthusiastically supports Senator Collins, a concern they often voice shows the political tightrope she has to walk.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think she ought to be more cooperative with President Trump.
TUCHMAN: This man says that Senator Collins should --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Take more of a conservative stance on issues, and vote the conservative position especially with the upcoming vote on our new incoming Supreme Court justice.
TUCHMAN: Indeed, Senator Collins announced said she would vote against the Supreme Court nominee, if it takes place before Election Day.
Does Gideon give Collins any credit for that type of bipartisanship?
GIDEON: I'm sorry, I cannot say that Susan Collins have stood up for women's rights.
TUCHMAN: During a debate, earlier this month.
COLLINS: I have always put the people of Maine first, and I always will.
TUCHMAN: Completely different opinions, which the people of Maine will have to consider.
Gary Tuchman, CNN, Portland, Maine.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BURNETT: What a momentous race coming up in November.
Thank you for joining us.
Anderson starts now.
