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Erin Burnett Outfront
NIH Director: Deaths Likely to Rise as Hospitalizations Jump; Pres. Trump: "Light at the End of the Tunnel is Here"; Trump Holds Multiple Events Today as U.S. Cases Top 8 Million; Christie Says He had "A False Sense of Security" at WH: "A Mistake"; Biden Says Trump "Still Living in a Dream World" on Coronavirus as He Fights to Flip Key Swing State of MI; Trump Refuses to Denounce QAnon Conspiracy Theories; U.S. Officials Investigating if Recently Published Emails Are Tied to Russian Disinformation Effort Targeting Biden. Aired 7-8p ET
Aired October 16, 2020 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST: I'll be back for a special edition of THE SITUATION ROOM tomorrow 6 pm Eastern. Until then, thanks for watching.
Erin Burnett OUTFRONT starts right now.
ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST: OUTFRONT next, the Director of the National Institutes of Health with a dire warning tonight, as President Trump claims the U.S. is rounding the corner on the pandemic yet again. The same day the number of cases in the United States crosses 8 million.
Plus, Biden promising voters he will accomplish what Trump has failed to over the last four years, unite the country, and tonight he is beating the President where it hurts the President the most.
And Trump promoting a baseless QAnon conspiracy theory that Osama bin Laden was not killed. A member of the SEAL Team Six killed Osama bin Laden is my guest. Let's go OUTFRONT.
And good evening. I'm Erin Burnett.
OUTFRONT on this Friday, 8 million. More than 8 million Americans have tested positive for coronavirus. A grim milestone as the U.S. enters a new peak, no end to the virus spread. The President of the National Institutes of Health just telling CNN that deaths are going to go up.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DR. FRANCIS COLLINS, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL INSTITUTES OF HEALTH: That indicates people are really severely sick and they need to be in the hospital. And that curve has also started up again, which is really troubling. And that probably means, unfortunately, that we may start now to see also an increase in the number of deaths each day.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Increase in the number of deaths each day. The President though with a completely different story.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The light at the end of the tunnel is near. We are rounding the turn. I say that all the time. Some of the media doesn't like hearing it. But I say it all the time, we're rounding that turn.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Well, he does say that all the time. In fact, he's been saying we're rounding the term for months and months and months and it hasn't been true yet. More than 800 new deaths recorded yesterday, that steady count of lives lost for months and months and months that now you heard the NIH Director say is going to keep going up, multiple states are now in fact reporting record hospitalizations.
And yet these are the images of the President's events today. On the left, seniors packed inside a room, two in-door rallies this afternoon and one happening right now. By the way tied to his Minnesota rally now, two people tied to that, according to the Minnesota Department of Health, are now in the hospital.
But the White House at a time when the nation needs clear direction on how to stop the spread of the disease is still spreading very mixed messages. Let me show you a different image. This is Ivanka Trump's rally today, socially distanced temperature checks. The audience told that they had to wear masks and keep them on.
Which is kind of funny because it's something Ivanka Trump did not do as you see in that first debate between her father and Joe Biden. Something she usually does not do in his presence. We can assume the reason no one close to Trump causes him publicly even on this crucial issue of masks even as he doubles down on a false claim that 85 percent of people who wear masks actually get coronavirus, which is blatantly and factually incorrect.
The problem is his overall message about masks is resonating with his supporters as we found out tonight.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RYAN NOBLES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: So do you think that he is providing accurate information, particularly when it comes to masks?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, (inaudible) ...
NOBLES: Do you believe the President to what he says about masks (inaudible) believe the CDC?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I believe the President has done a good job combating the COVID-19 virus.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A lot people take everything as I say verbatim.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Which is why one of his top allies, Chris Christie, is sounding the alarm. Begging the President to be honest with the American people.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHRIS CHRISTIE, (R) FORMER GOVERNOR OF NEW JERSEY: I think we need to be honest with the American people and just say directly to them that we don't know everything we need to know about this disease at this point, George, but what we do know is that masks can certainly help.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: We do know that. Instead, the President paints this picture of rounding the corner even as we're hitting another coronavirus peak and hospitalizations are rising and deaths are going up. This is the same way that he has misled Americans, every other time the U.S. has hit another devastating peak in infection.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I said it's going away and it is going away.
Well, the virus will disappear. It will disappear.
We will soon be ending this pandemic.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Now, we're rounding the corner. That's what he says every time it peaks and it comes back. The case numbers continue to rise and that confusing message that is detached from reality is causing some of Trump's supporters now to actually turn.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He's still dishonest about it. He keeps saying it's getting better and it never is. It's getting worse.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: She voted for Trump last time. She's voting for Biden this time.
Ryan Nobles is OUTFRONT live in Macon, Georgia. And Ryan, you spoke to some of Trumps supporters at that rally behind you.
[19:05:02]
As we now find out in Minnesota, they're now saying two people hospitalized related to the President's events in that state. It's clear though that his message on the pandemic is resonating with the people behind you.
NOBLES: Erin, there's no doubt about that. Basically, everything the President says on any topic, but especially the coronavirus pandemic resonates in a big way with all of his supporters. They literally believe every single thing he says and in many cases when you're having conversations with the folks that attend these rallies, it's almost like you're living in an alternative reality.
Yes, they believe the coronavirus exists, but they don't believe it's that big of a threat. They compare it to the flu. Of course, way more people died of coronavirus than have ever died of the flu in a given year. They also believe that some of these medications that the President has touted like hydroxychloroquine is completely safe and is something that is effective for treating coronavirus, which we know is not to be true.
And then this latest statistic that the President has been touting that 85 percent of people who wear masks are still at risk for contracting Coronavirus. We also know that that is just not true. And it's not just that they believe it, they're also practicing this message that the President is sending out. As this evidence behind me, as it is evidence in every single one of these rallies that we've covered in event to, the lion's share of people here are not wearing masks. They're not getting the message. And Erin, is we are finding out there are real world consequences to those actions. Erin.
BURNETT: Yes, there are. Thank you very much, Ryan. And tonight, as you heard the director of the National Institutes of Health say the hospitalization curve is going up. You're seeing an increase and he says that you will see an increase in deaths following. Nick Watt is OUTFRONT.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
NICK WATT, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): There's a MAGA rally in Wisconsin tomorrow night. Will the President mentioned the state is now seeing all-time record high new COVID-19 cases, hospitalizations and deaths, unlikely?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MAYOR TOM BARRETT, (D) MILWAUKEE, WISCONSIN: We saw it in the Rose Garden just a couple of weeks ago and we could see another super spreader event in Janesville tomorrow.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WATT (voice-over): Hotspots are popping up again in Connecticut, 12 now dead in a nursing home outbreak in California. New Mexico's average daily case count more than doubled over the past two weeks.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Pay attention to the facts. It is a deadly, highly contagious virus. The virus is now winning.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WATT (voice-over): Nine states just set a record, most new cases in a day. Latest national numbers, yesterday, we topped 60,000 for the first time since mid-August, second wave, third wave, ominous either way.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF ALLERGY AND INFECTIOUS DISEASES: It's still not too late to vigorously apply good public health measures. And again, I emphasize without necessarily shutting down the country.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WATT (voice-over): Disappointing news on remdesivir used on the President the only drug explicitly authorized to treat COVID-19 in the U.S., it has little or no effect on mortality for hospitalized patients, according to the WHO.
Better news on vaccines, assuming positive data, Pfizer will apply for emergency authorization use in the U.S. soon after the safety milestone is achieved in the third week of November. So after the election and note the word assuming is doing a little work there.
The data would be reviewed not only by the FDA own scientists, but also by an external panel of independent experts at a publicly held meeting convened by the agency. To ensure public trust, some say the President has eroded that trust.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
WATT: Now, among the first people to see that vaccine data will be Dr. Anthony Fauci. President Trump repeatedly baselessly tries to somehow malign Fauci by saying he's a Democrat. Dr. Fauci is staunchly apolitical and working to protect any and all Americans, Erin.
BURNETT: All right. Nick, thank you very much. And to Nick's point, not that it matters but Fauci is not registered to any political party.
OUTFRONT now, Dr. Jonathan Reiner who advised the White House medical team under President George W. Bush and Dr. Aileen Marty, Professor of Infectious Diseases at Florida International University.
So Dr. Reiner, 31 states now with an increase in case counts, hospitalizations going up. And by the way, those 31 states, as you can see, across this country, cases in New Mexico more than doubling in the past two weeks, the entire Midwest, obviously seeing a spike. When the President says - now, obviously, I showed him saying this month after month after month, but this time when he says we're rounding the turn, is there anything which backs that up?
[19:10:01]
JONATHAN REINER, CNN MEDICAL ANALYST: No. He also says that there's light at the end of the tunnel, which is clearly an oncoming train. We had 68,000 new cases today, that's the highest total since July 30th. Sometime tomorrow, we'll pass the 1 million case mark for October.
So in 17 days we will have added another million cases. Just to give you some perspective, it took a hundred days for us to get to the first million positive cases and now every 17 days. So we are clearly not rounding the corner.
And when you tell your followers that masks aren't important or that we're just about there and everything is over, and you bring together the super spread or events, you prolonged the agony for the country. And the responsible thing to do is to tell the country what they need to do to get through this safely until we have a vaccine.
The good news is that I'm pretty sure we're going to have a vaccine in the near term and then we're going to start giving good news when we start talking about nightly counts of new patients vaccinated. Yes. But until that point, we have to get there.
BURNETT: So Dr. Marty, foreign policy magazine released its latest ranking of the countries that have best handled the pandemic and the U.S. comes in number 33 out of 36. The countries behind us include Turkey, Russia and Iran. I should note, seven months in Russia situation is record cases daily, Iran situation is record deaths daily. Those are the countries that are the only ones doing worse than the U.S. Do you think that that's a fair analysis?
DR. AILEEN MARTY, INFECTIOUS DISEASE EXPERT, FLORIDA INTERNATIONAL UNIVERSITY: Absolutely, leadership matters. Leadership has always mattered. leadership has to bring the right message to the population, making sure that we know the truth and how to protect ourselves from whatever's going on, that we understand the risk.
One of the things that's going on right now is there is a declaration of falsehood that is spreading the idea that we should allow this virus to spread wildly among us. That is exceedingly dangerous and very bad science. So we're countering that with the John-Snow declaration which says just the opposite that we need to wear masks, that we need to have the physical distancing, that hygiene, et cetera, and that we need to protect everyone in our population and wait for this vaccines.
There are many vaccines that are coming and showing fruition and we should hang on and continue in that mode.
BURNETT: So Dr. Reiner, today Ivanka Trump held an event that looks very different than those held by her father. And I should note when she's been with him at the last debate she didn't mask, but this when she held an event it was different, social distancing, temperature checks, people were told to keep their masks on, the opposite of what we get at a Trump rally.
She's clearly trying to appeal to a different audience, a different voter than her father, but he desperately needs those voters, reasonable Republicans. Is it going to work?
REINER: No. She's just creating photos for her Twitter and Instagram feeds. That's what she's doing. These are all photo ops. If she was doing something meaningful as a senior policy advisor to the President of the United States, she would have prevented him from hosting that giant unmasked event in the Rose Garden, she would have prevented him from holding rally after rally this summer. She would have urged him to urge the country to wear a mask. I'm totally unimpressed with her made for social media photo ops. Work
on some policy, you're supposed to be a policy advisor.
BURNETT: Dr. Marty, a lot of people are wondering what all this means for the holidays. The CDC is now saying pull back from those holiday gatherings with your family. In fact they are now saying small household gatherings are helping drive the rise in cases, the surge that we're seeing. Do Americans really realize this? How significant those small decisions are?
MARTY: We're still seeing from contact tracing data that a great percentage of the cases are exactly from those instances of small family and friend gatherings where people do not realize that that is a excellent mechanism for transmitting this. We need to get that message across to our population that they have to be careful even amongst people that they know and love.
BURNETT: And Dr. Reiner, a quick final question, we're just getting the Minnesota Department of Health that two people who attended one of the President's rallies there are hospitalized among the 20 who are known to have contracted coronavirus. Your reaction to that too in the hospital.
REINER: Predictable. Every event will have casualties.
BURNETT: All right. Thank you both. I appreciate your time.
[19:15:00]
As we see those images out of Macon tonight.
OUTFRONT next, Biden going all-in on Michigan.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOE BIDEN (D) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I'll work as hard for those who don't support me as those who do.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: As the ratings are in, so who did more Americans watch and those dueling town halls last night and does it mean anything? One person thinks it does?
Plus, Trump defending his retweet of a baseless conspiracy theory that Osama bin Laden is not really dead. The former Navy SEAL on that team killed Osama bin Laden response live.
And us investigators are now looking into whether Russians are using Rudy Giuliani to interfere in the 2020 election.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:19:28]
BURNETT: New tonight, Joe Biden telling voters and the key swing State of Michigan that he will do something that President Trump has not done in almost four years, bring the country together. Here's how Biden is making his pitch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BIDEN: I'll work as hard for those who don't support me, as those who do. I do not see America in terms of red and blue. Bringing the country together, that's the job of a president. It's a duty to care, to care for everybody.
[19:20:00]
We can be so much better than what we see. We can be what we are at our best when we're the United States of America.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: OUTFRONT now, the host of CNN SMERCONISH, Michael Smerconish and our Senior Political Analyst, Kirsten Powers.
So Michael with two and a half weeks from the election, is this the message that's going to drive turnout for Biden?
MICHAEL SMERCONISH, CNN HOST, SMERCONISH: It's a closing argument. I mean, to me there's a trial analogy here. It's as if the evidence is in and you want to provide the jury with some kind of a unifying theme before you send them off to deliberate. I think it's the message that someone who believes that he's comfortably ahead delivers, do no harm, spark no controversy, ride this thing out because you think you're in a very secure position.
BURNETT: Kirsten, he also went after Trump on coronavirus, wrapping that into the concept of leadership. Here's what Biden said there.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BIDEN: President Trump rebels in division and chaos. He'll do anything to distract us from focusing on his failures to deal with this virus and to protect the nation. He's still living in a dream world.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: So Kirsten, just some stats here, you've got this spike of cases in the Midwest, Michigan is as tight as the state comes. Trump won it by two-tenths of a percent, which was less than 11,000 votes, all right? So this is the bet Biden is making on Michigan.
POWERS: Yes. But I think the messaging that he has right now is really targeted at people who are sort of on the fence, those people that he's trying to pull over, maybe people who have voted for Trump last time that he's trying to get to come back to the Democratic Party or Republican women, in particular suburban women, who typically don't vote Democratic, but are thinking about abandoning the President for Joe Biden and he's trying to speak directly to them. He's not speaking necessarily to people. The people who have strong opinions about COVID already know who
they're voting for on both sides. The people who have strong opinions about the state of the country in terms of being united already know who they're voting for. But for somebody who is thinking maybe I'm a Republican and I'm going to vote for Joe Biden, these are two messages that are really going to resonate with them.
BURNETT: And Michael, Biden also argued that, obviously, picking on Trump's coronavirus response, but saying that Americans on Obamacare will lose their insurance if Amy Coney Barrett is confirmed as a Supreme Court nominee, which polls have come out. That is not popular, people don't want that to happen. Here's the argument.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BIDEN: Mishandling the pandemic isn't enough for Trump. On top of that, he's still trying to take away your health care. Getting rid of Obamacare is why they're racing to get this nominee through the Supreme Court. He wants to get rid of Obamacare in its entirety and with this nominee he's made that incredibly clear as well.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: So Michael, look, the polls do show that getting rid of Obamacare is not popular. Is it actually going to translate into votes for Biden?
SMERCONISH: I think that it could. I've always believed that this is one of the strongest arrows that he has in his quiver and it's to make the argument that the only way that the insurance models can take care of those with pre existing conditions is if everybody buys into the insurance pool. And that castigated individual mandate, that's what it's all about.
It's about personal responsibility and the idea that we all buy in so that the young invincibles are the ones who are making up that gap which pays for the people with pre existing conditions, but they just don't articulate it that way and I'm never sure why, but I expect they probably will. The Biden ticket will probably do that for the next two weeks.
BURNETT: So Kirsten, everyone's wondering how those town halls did last night and it was sort of - whether you are a Trump supporter or you wanted to see the theater, there was sort of this build up that people were going to watch Trump. However, when you look at the actual ratings, Joe Biden outrated Donald Trump. His town hall on ABC, just aired on ABC 14.1 million viewers. Trump's townhall aired on NBC, MSNBC and CNBC on television 13.1 1 million. So Trump beat by a million with (inaudible).
POWERS: Yes.
BURNETT: So, look, I just want to say Trump views TV ratings as crucial. He has said multiple times over the years, "The Nielsen ratings are much more important than the polls." OK, that it was ratings, not polls, that matter. This time, obviously, it's a totally different outcome, if you take Trump's word for it.
[19:25:01]
POWERS: Yes. I mean live by the ratings die by the ratings, I guess, if you're Donald Trump. I have to say I was pleasantly surprised by this not for any partisan reasons, but just for the fact that if you look at the two different styles of these men, they're just substantively very, very different and I honestly thought if you were to ask me, I would have said people would watch the Trump show over the Biden show. Because basically my feeling was Trump had kind of broken our brains, like people now will get bored with somebody speaking at length and in depth the way that Joe Biden does.
I mean, you had the Trump campaign comparing him. They thought unfavorably, I guess, to Mr. Rogers (ph), who is beloved. But I think that that was a welcome surprise and people wanted to hear that.
BURNETT: I agree. I think it definitely was a surprise and I'm sure it's one that took the President's breath away, given again, that as I say, He is the one who has said this so many times, the ultimate poll ratings. The ultimate poll. I mean, I'm just reading off quotes of things he said. All you have to do is look at your ratings to know who will win.
Michael, I want to ask you about something you know about personally here, C-SPAN Steve Scully, if anyone doesn't know his name, you should, he was going to be moderating the second debate before it was cancelled. But he has now been suspended indefinitely by C-SPAN over a tweet to Trump's former communications director turned aggressively strong critic, Anthony Scaramucci.
In the tweet, Scully asked, should I respond to Trump after Trump attacked him and said he would not be a fair moderator. So to go to Anthony Scaramucci about that if your debate moderator would be totally inappropriate. Scully claimed it was the result of a hack, that he didn't actually do it, but now he admits that that was not true.
So Michael, I know this is hard for you because you're friends with him, what happened here?
SMERCONISH: Well, it's not hard at all. I mean, to quote Lloyd Bentsen, I know Steve Scully and as you say Steve Scully is a friend of mine, he made a mistake. He knows he made a mistake, the mistake that he made, I think sort of dwarf the underlying conduct. If he had simply said, yes, I reached out for Scaramucci because I was panicked and I wasn't sure how to handle the wrath that I was incurring from the President of the United States. I don't think we would be discussing this.
I'm not for professional death sentences, especially in this case, because Steve Scully has a 30-year record of being very measured, very down the middle, anyone who has watched him on C-SPAN, anyone who, as I have, has also appeared multiple times on his program, know exactly the way that he runs his professional life. And I would rather judge him by that standard than just an error
direct message that he thought was being sent to one individual. He would be the first to tell you he made a mistake, but he should be back at some point in the future.
BURNETT: Right. The issue as you're saying is more that he lied about the hack. That's the initial thing. He didn't know what to do and he did that and that was the mistake.
SMERCONISH: Big mistake.
BURNETT: Yes.
SMERCONISH: Yes. Didn't know how to handle it and probably thought he was responding only to Scaramucci. Erin, I've made the same mistake albeit not with the stakes where I send a message to someone who follows me on twitter thinking I'm responding only to them and then I later am embarrassed to find out it's gone out to the ethernet.
BURNETT: Yes. Yes. That's the thing about Twitter. All right. Thank you both very much.
And next, Trump defends retweeting a baseless conspiracy theory that claims Osama bin Laden is alive.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: It was a retweet. That was an opinion of somebody and that was a retweet. I'll put it out there.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: I'll put it out there that Osama bin Laden is alive. A former member of SEAL Team Six, the team that killed bin Laden is OUTFRONT to respond.
And a stunning attack from the President's former Chief of Staff, John Kelly. Why he is calling Trump the most flawed person he's ever met.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:32:48]
BURNETT: Tonight, Senator Mitt Romney attacking President Trump's refusal to denounce QAnon during last night's town hall, saying, quote, the president's unwillingness to denounce and observe a dangerous conspiracy theory last night continues an alarming pattern. Politicians in parties refuse to purposely repudiate groups like Antifa, white supremacists and conspiracy peddlers.
The president going so far as to praise QAnon supporters and defending his retweets of -- I guess you would call it a conspiracy theory, this is completely insane that Osama bin Laden is not really dead.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I know nothing about QAnon.
SAVANNAH GUTHRIE, NBC NEWS ANCHOR: I just told.
TRUMP: You told me, but what you told me doesn't necessarily make it fact, I hate to say that. I know nothing about it, I do know that they are very much against pedophilia, they find it very hard.
GUTHRIE: Just this week, you re-tweeted to your 87 million followers the conspiracy theory that Joe Biden orchestrated to have Navy SEAL Team 6, the Navy SEAL Team 6, to cover up the fake death of bin Laden.
Now why would you send a lie like that to your followers? You retweeted it.
TRUMP: That was a retweet. That was an opinion of somebody and that was a retweet. I'll put it out there. People can decide for themselves.
GUTHRIE: I don't get that. You're the president. You're not like someone's crazy uncle who can just retweet whatever.
TRUMP: No, no, no. That was a retweet and I do a lot of retweets and frankly because the media is so fake and so corrupt, if I didn't have social media, I don't call a Twitter, I call it social, media I wouldn't be able to get the word out.
GUTHRIE: Well, the word is false.
And you know what the word is? The word is very simple. We're building our country stronger and better than it's ever been before. That's what's happening and everybody knows it.
GUTHRIE: OUTFRONT now, former Navy SEAL Rob O'Neill. He's the retired member of Navy SEAL Team 6, the team that killed Osama bin Laden.
Rob, you and I have talked a lot about that. You know, his defenses I'll put it out there that Osama bin Laden is alive. As I said, the conspiracy theory I've only heard in taxicabs in the Middle East, not something you'd ever think the president of the United States would put out there.
So, what do you say to that?
[19:35:00]
You were there.
ROBERT O'NEILL, FORMER MEMBER OF NAVY SEAL TEAM THAT KILLED OSAMA BIN LADEN: Yes. Thanks again, Erin. Great to see you and to be back on the show.
Yeah, I was there and when I heard you say absurd, I mean, it is absurd, and to the point where when we first heard about it, I was on a vacation, some of the guys who are on the ground with me were texting me saying stuff, almost jokingly, like, you know, who did we go in there and kill, why are we all dead? Stuff like that. And, you know, it's one thing to joke about something like that and, I put out a two-way tweet that said I put a I guess we might have must killed Obama bin Johnson or something like that.
But, I mean, for the president of the United States, now, he loved to tweet out stuff to whip, to own the news cycle, and a retweet is one thing for someone who's not the commander-in-chief, but for something this important, you can't just tweet out something like that, especially with -- even with someone with that with that many followers and say, well, I'm sure they will just come up with their own conclusions, because, you know, we got crazies on the right hand on the left, and there are people that are taking his words as gospel.
And if the president puts out that we didn't kill the right guy or the entire team was killed or whatever, they're saying like that, a lot of people are gonna straight-up believe him. And it can't get to a point where it's more than politically dangerous.
It shouldn't be a retweet, he knows what happened, he is the highest of the top secret, the toppest, the highest of the top secret people. He can go see the pictures that we do have it CIA in a file cabinet. We got a lot of photos of him different places where we took bin Laden's body for DNA test.
So, it's just -- you know, it's one of those things where as somebody has made mistakes on twitter, the president should not be doing something of that scale.
BURNETT: No, I mean, it's just tough to imagine, you know, how that -- how that feels to you, when you were there with your team and you risk your lives to do this for this country. I want to ask you about something else, because part of that exchange that I played was about QAnon right? He has said that in the past that he understands QAnon supporters, quote, like me very much and that they love America.
According to a reporting from "The Atlantic" the, president as promoted Twitter accounts that referenced QAnon more than 200 times, right, with his retweets and other things as you're discussing.
Do you believe Trump that he doesn't what QAnon is? And sees them as I guess the valiant opponent of pedophilia?
O'NEILL: I -- I'm not -- see, I'm not even that familiar with QAnon. The most I know is that they claim to be a right wing group. I know people who have gone to their spots as keynote speakers and said they never go back, because they have some bizarre things going on.
I'm not -- I don't know what the president knows about them, and I've never spoken to the president about QAnon. I've heard different things from different sides.
From what I've read, I'm not going to associate with them. If they're breaking up pedophilia rings, that's awesome. Obviously, I don't think anyone's pro pedophile. But I don't know much about, them I don't know what the president knows about them. It's just -- it just seemed like bizarre, because these are guys that
are saying -- I mean, part of that conspiracy, the guys on the bin Laden raid can joke about. We know what we did, we saw it, and the unfortunate thing is we're many -- I mean, few people that have seen it.
But then when it gets into the conspiracy that somehow because Vice President Joe Biden says SEAL Team 6, that they shot down SEAL Team 6 to silence the group, because the group got shot down was a different group of guys. Not one guy that died there, albeit some of the best fighters I've ever seen, the best heroes ever, none of them were in the bin Laden, but they were real people, and their kids are still missing their fathers, and that was a real thing.
And even to go so far as the conspire that Hillary Clinton saw the missiles that shot them down to shot up SEAL Team 6, that's the kind of stuff what was in this ridiculous QAnon conspiracy theory and that's when it gets very, very personal for me and that's why I did get upset about.
BURNETT: Yeah, I understand that. It's absurd and it can be very dangerous. I want to ask you one other thing before we go, Rob, because -- since I have you.
Look, I know that you yourself, you're a conservative guy. The president has come under fire for suggesting that Gold Star families could've been spread responsible for the spread of coronavirus in the White House, right? He's made some comments here, you know, saying that they just like Hope Hicks so much, they want to hug her, and that's sort of how it happened. He also said this.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
TRUMP: They come within an inch of my face sometimes, they want to hug me and they want to kiss me, and they do. And frankly, I am not telling them to back up, I'm not doing it. But I did say it's obviously dangerously dangerous, it's dangerous if you go by the COVID thing.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
BURNETT: And then, of course, Rob, he specifically said law or military enforcement could've in affected Hope Hicks.
I mean, look, veterans and active duty service members are a key part of Trump's political base. Sixty percent of them voted for him in 2016, according to the exit polls.
Just from your point of view, do you feel at supporters slipping or not?
O'NEILL: I know -- I know that most of the men or women with whom I've served a conservative leaning, and I think if you want to -- if someone wants to get political as far as Gold Star families, my advice is to keep them out of it completely.
[19:40:02]
And, you know, you don't blame Gold Star kids for something that may have happened when a lot of people aren't 100 percent sure how this virus is spread.
I would just, I mean, me personally, if a Gold Star kid wants to hug him, get him a hug, and I'm not going to say a word of it.
BURNETT: Yeah, right. Point taken, thank you very much, Rob. I appreciate your time.
O'NEILL: Thank you, Erin.
BURNETT: And next, Trump was repeatedly warned that Rudy Giuliani repeatedly being used by Russian agents to take down Biden. So what was the president's response?
And all eyes on a key swing state that could not only determine who wins the White House but who takes control of the Senate. So, who has the upper hand?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BURNETT: Tonight, U.S. investigators are looking into whether emails that purport to show business dealings of Joe Biden's son, Hunter Biden, are connected to a Russian disinformation campaign. So, "The New York Post" has claimed in a series of articles this week a claimed, quote, smoking gun emails about Hunter Biden, and his dealings in Ukraine.
CNN's not determine the authenticity of the emails which is at the heart of this. "The Post", though, has said it obtained the emails to two Trump confidants, his personal lawyer, Rudy Giuliani, and his former chief strategist, Steve Bannon.
[19:45:06]
Evan Perez is OUTFRONT.
So, Evan, what more are you learning here?
EVAN PEREZ, CNN SENIOR JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Erin, we are learning the FBI is leading this investigation, which is looking into whether this Russian disinformation campaign that has been targeting Joe Biden's campaign, spreading this idea that he was part of some corrupt business ties of his son, who was serving on the board of a Ukrainian energy company called Burisma, that somehow, that this involved corruption of Joe Biden. That's what the Russians have been trying to spread.
And whether that is now connected to this set of emails, alleged emails, that have been published by "The New York Post". Now, these are emails that allegedly show Hunter Biden trying to monetize, and trying to use his ties, his father's position, obviously, in the Obama ministration, to make money.
And so, that is what the FBI is taking a look at, to see whether all of these things are connected.
"The Washington Post" is now reporting, Erin, that the president himself, and the White House were warned that Rudy Giuliani was, essentially, being used by the Russians, and by people connected to the Russians in Ukraine, to try and traffic in some of these conspiracy theories that the Russians are trying to use.
And all along, someone was expecting that some of this information will come in October, and right on schedule, it has arrived.
BURNETT: It has, and there is a bit clump of stuff they talk about, right? Everything from the sordid sort of, whatever porn stuff is on the computer, all the way to these sort of emails, right? A giant haystack, is the point I'm making. And within it, some needles.
And one of the "New York Post" articles claims that there is an email that alleges that there was a 2015 email, 2015 meeting, I'm sorry, between Joe Biden and an executive for Burisma, right, where Hunter Biden was on the board. So, the Biden campaign it said it went through the former vice presidents meeting at the time, and found no official meeting. Biden last year said he was clear, he's never spoken to his son about his overseas business dealings, but an email like this, if it is real, could be more significant.
So, how do they know whether these emails are significant, or whether these are -- the Russian disinformation put into the haystack?
PEREZ: Right, exactly, and this is classic. This is very classic Russian disinformation tactic which is to mix and things that look legitimate, and maybe even are legitimate, with things that are fake. And so, what we will see over the next few days is more releases from "The New York Post", and from other outlets, I suppose.
We do know that the trajectory of this is that in April of 2019, this laptop is dropped off at a computer repair store in Delaware. In December, somehow, the FBI takes control of it. We are not very clear from the computer store owner, exactly how the FBI knew about the existence of this.
And then, fast forward to this summer, suddenly, this comes into the hands of Rudy Giuliani, and Steve Bannon is also involved. That is one of the things that is raising all of the red flags as to whether or not any of this is real, and exactly how it came to be in the hands of the president's attorney.
BURNETT: All right. Thank you very much, Evan.
I want to go to James Clapper, former director of national intelligence under President Obama.
So, Director, a bunch of questions from this, let me just start with this. How much does the source matter? Right, so to hear the story of this laptop, we don't know a lot. We do know that the way this information is getting out is through Steve Bannon, and Rudy Giuliani.
How much does the source matter here? JAMES CLAPPER, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Well, source matters a
lot. And the timing matters a lot I think.
And to me, this is -- this is a classic, textbook, Soviet, Russian trade craft at work. Russians of analyze the target, they understand that the president, and his enablers crave dirt on Vice President Biden, whether it is real, or contrived, it doesn't matter to them.
So, all of a sudden, 2 and a half weeks before the election, this laptop appears, somehow, without -- and emails on, it without any metadata. It's all very curious.
So, here you have a willing target, and the Russians who are very sophisticated about how to exploit a willing target. And to me, that is what is at work here.
BURNETT: And so, you know, when you trying to figure out the specifics of whether that meeting email, for example, is real in the midst of this. Do you think stuff like that could have just been planted in here and been completely fake?
CLAPPER: I do. I think the emails could be contrived as well, particularly since, as I understand from what I've read, they appear without any metadata, that is from, to, or any technical data, at least anything immediately evident.
[19:50:04]
Now, if this computer is in the hands of the FBI, they have, obviously, excellent, sophisticated technical and forensic analytical capabilities, and I think they will be able to sort it out, whether this is genuine or not. But it's all pretty curious, again, two and a half weeks out from the election.
BURNETT: Yeah, to come out via Bannon, and Giuliani, I mean, it does -- it does all smell funny.
I want to ask you something else, Director. Jake Tapper tonight is reporting tonight that the president's former chief of staff, General John Kelly, has told friends of Trump, and I quote: The depths of his dishonesty is astonishing to me. The dishonesty, the transactional nature of every relationship, though it is more pathetic than anything else, he is the most flawed person I have ever met in my life.
Now, General Kelly, he stood by the president for a while, right? He took that job, he took it was seriousness, and he endeavor to fulfill it. But this is what he really thinks.
How do you react to that? This is a four-star general, former chief of staff, of the president of the United States.
CLAPPER: Well, General Kelly, obviously, a distinguished, accomplished Marine, 4 star general, so, he's got a lot in terms of character, integrity, and all that. I think the entered the administration, like many others, such as his colleague Jim Mattis, who serve with the best of intentions, knowing, probably, what they were getting into. And I drew lot from General Kelly's silence after the reporting of the president characterizing fallen soldiers and marines as suckers, and losers, and he didn't come out and deny that. I thought his silence spoke volumes.
So, not only this is true, but it certainly comports with what I know, I don't know him well, but from what I know of him. And again, it just -- he joins a long litany of people who have served in the administration, with the best of intentions, and it turned bad for them.
BURNETT: Right. Certainly, Jim Mattis among them, Rex Tillerson, we can go through the list. Pretty credible, the depth of his dishonesty is more pathetic than anything else.
Director Clapper, I always appreciate your time and I thank you.
CLAPPER: Thanks, Erin.
BURNETT: I want everyone to know, that reporting I mentioned on General Kelly's comments from Jake, is from a new CNN special report, airing this weekend, where Jake will talk to former Trump officials, including John Bolton, about their urgent message for Americans. "THE INSIDERS: A WARNING FROM FORMER TRUMP OFFICIALS" air Sunday night at 9:00.
And, OUTFRONT next tonight, Biden, and Trump, back to back rallies now, in a crucial swing state. It could decide more than just the White House. So, who has the momentum tonight?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:57:08]
BURNETT: Tonight, some top Republican centimeters warning about a blue tsunami, as polls show key races tightening across the country.
Miguel Marquez is OUTFRONT.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MIGUEL MARQUEZ, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Battleground Michigan. Not just in the race for the White House, but in the fight for control of the Senate.
SEN. GARY PETERS (D-MI): There is a great deal of energy right now, on both sides, because of what is at stake here.
MARQUEZ: First term Senator Gary Peters is facing a tough challenge with a few Senate contests where Democrats are on defense.
PETERS: It is incredibly important, and we have to have the majority of the Senate for President Biden to be successful.
MARQUEZ: The Republican challenger, combat veteran, and businessman, John James. He lost his 2018 bid for Senate against Michigan's other Democratic senator, by 6 points. JOHN JAMES (R-MI), U.S. SENATORIAL CANDIDATE: People in the state of
Michigan recognize that Gary Peters is all talk.
MARQUEZ: James declined a request to speak with CNN, but he did appear twice, Thursday, on Fox News where he called out his rival.
JAMES: Senator Peters would be less than a speed bump against the leftist move towards anarchy and socialism.
MARQUEZ: While Democratic nominee Joe Biden leads President Trump in Michigan polls, one recent survey from the New York Times and Siena College shows the Senate race, nearly even with Peters, at 43 percent in James at 42 percent.
Democrats need to pick up 4 seats to gain control of the Senate, if Trump wins reelection, or 3 seats if Biden wins the presidency, since his vice president would break ties in the Senate.
Right now, the GOP is favored to flip one Democratic held seat, Alabama.
AD ANNOUNCER: Gary Peters --
MARQUEZ: The race is one of the top 10 most expensive this cycle, with Peters, and his allies, spending more than $56 million on ads so far, compared to $45 million by James in outside groups backing his campaign.
Peters has touted his bipartisan contentious, and environmental record. While, James has attacked Peters on the coronavirus, and, for being an ineffective lawmaker.
Voters here, already testing ballots, well aware of the stakes.
FREDDIE COURSON, DEMOCRATIC VOTER: Having a blue Senate, and a blue Congress, are for the next 4 years, will dictate all legislation that our family cares about.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If President Trump wins, and does not have the House and Senate, then this country gets nothing done.
MARQUEZ: Strategists and party officials from both sides, say that the outcome in Michigan could be crucial for the direction of the Senate.
How important is it to flip a seat like Michigan?
JAMIE ROE, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: I think there is a huge opportunity, right now, in Michigan for the Republican Party to flip a seat.
BRANDON DILLON, FORMER CHAIR, MICHIGAN DEMOCRATIC PARTY: It is critically important. There is no path for a Democratic Senate majority without Gary Peters returning to the United States Senate.
MARQUEZ: Miguel Marquez, CNN, Traverse City, Michigan.
(END VIDEOTAPE) BURNETT: And thanks so much to all of you for joining us.
Don't forget, you can watch OUTFRONT anytime, anywhere. You just have to go to CNN Go. Have a good weekend.
"AC360" starts now.
