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Erin Burnett Outfront
Harris: Better if McConnell Acknowledged Biden's Win Earlier; McConnell Urges GOP Senators not to Object Election Results; Biden Expected to Pick Former Gov. Granholm to Lead Energy Dept.; Buttigieg for Transportation Secretary; Trump Neglects Major Hack of U.S. Govt Agencies, COVID Spread, Stimulus Talks; Obsessing on Baseless Voter Fraud Claims; Sen. Maggie Hassan (D-NH) Discusses Her Take on the Bipartisan Compromise on the Relief Package. Aired 7-8p ET
Aired December 15, 2020 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST: May they rest in peace and may their memories be a blessing. Thanks very much for watching. I'm Wolf Blitzer in THE SITUATION ROOM. You can follow me on Twitter and Instagram @WOLFBLITZER. Tweet the show @CNNSITROOM.
Erin Burnett OUTFRONT starts right now.
ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST: OUTFRONT next the breaking news, Vice President-elect Kamala Harris just moments ago applauding Sen. Mitch McConnell for finally acknowledging Joe Biden's win, but adds sure would have been better if it were earlier. This as Trump tonight ignores a major attack on the U.S. government, a deadly pandemic and the economy, focusing instead on conspiracy theories.
And also tonight, Dr. Anthony Fauci urging Joe Biden to get vaccinated. But the President-elect not nailing down a date, why?
And tonight we take you inside Trump's right wing bubble where millions of Americans are told on a daily basis things that are completely lies. They're told he could still be the next president. Let's go OUTFRONT.
And good evening. I'm Erin Burnett.
OUTFRONT tonight, the breaking news. The incoming Vice President Kamala Harris applauding Mitch McConnell for finally acknowledging the next President of the United States.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. KAMALA HARRIS (D-CA), VICE PRESIDENT-ELECT OF THE UNITED STATES: I think it's critically important. I applaud Mitch McConnell for talking to Joe Biden today. It would have been better if it were earlier, but it happened and that's what's most important and so let's move forward. Let's move forward and where we can find common purpose and common ground, let's do that. Let that be our priority.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: So she's emphasizing the future and moving forward, but not standing down on the fact here, calling McConnell out for taking 38 days, 38 days since we've known Joe Biden. Thirty-eight days it took Sen. McConnell to do this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. MITCH MCCONNELL (R-KY): The Electoral College has spoken, so today I want to congratulate President-elect Joe Biden.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Harris could have gone further and McConnell's fealty to Trump, his fanning of Trump's false claims and lies has done damage. Yet today McConnell is finally abandoning Trump and he took it further than what he said there on the floor, right on a conference call, he told Republicans not to challenge the electoral results when they're tallied on January 6th, taking a stand that that's it, the Electoral College is it. We're done here with all of this.
This as Trump himself is essentially not showing up to work at least not to do his job. There has been nothing coming from the White House as the nation is now facing the most consequential cyber attack in years, according to the director of the NSA who spoke to The New York Times, Russian hackers suspected of infiltrating. OK, this is Russian hackers months long attack, was consequential in history.
The Department of Homeland Security, the Department of Treasury, the Department of Commerce, the Department of Agriculture, nuclear labs and fortune 500 companies all compromised according to the Times' reporting. The full scope of this attack isn't even known at this time and yet the President of the United States who took this oath ...
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Preserve, protect and defend ...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The Constitution of the United States.
TRUMP: ... the Constitution of the United States.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Protect and defend, tonight said this about the attack, nothing. The United States, the target of a major attack and Trump says nothing. Instead, this is how he spent his time today tweeting about the election. Repeating is tired and false claims about the election he lost. And as for his administration's response to the attack ...
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KAYLEIGH MCENANY, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: We are taking a hard look on this and obviously take any sort of cyber hacks very seriously.
(END VIDEO CLIP) BURNETT: Well, it's hard to take a hard look when the President of
the United States has fired the Head of the Homeland Security department's cyber security and infrastructure security agency and acts as Secretary of Defense. In fact, Trump has gutted the Defense Department. Trump doesn't have a permanent Secretary of Defense, he has purged a slew of top officials from defense advisory boards and instead replace them with political pals like Corey Lewandowski and a guy named Scott O'Grady, a Trump loyalist who has suggested that Trump declare martial law.
In a moment, I'm going to talk to a former CIA Director about this serious National Security attack. But this attack is not the only pressing issue that Trump ignores today. He was completely absent when negotiations on a long delayed COVID relief package continued. If nothing is done, 12 million Americans could see their unemployment benefits expire after Christmas, 14 million Americans also at risk of losing their home.
Mitch McConnell says they won't go home without getting it done. The President again silent. He's also of course completely absent on the coronavirus itself, making no mention of the now 302,000 Americans who have died from the pandemic. He hasn't been doing the job.
[19:05:00]
Well, except for except for things that he thinks are equivalent priorities to disputing the election, like today, team Trump rolled back water saving regulations on showerheads.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Showerheads, you take a shower, the water doesn't come out. You want to wash your hands, the waters doesn't come out, so what do you do you just stand there longer, you take a shower longer, because my hair, I don't know about you, but it has to be perfect. Perfect.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Good thing he took care of that problem today.
Kaitlan Collins is OUTFRONT live outside the White House. So Kaitlan, amidst all this, Mitch McConnell, OK, he took 38 days but you heard Kamala Harris saying, sure, it should have been earlier, but we're glad it happened. Let's move forward. And McConnell telling his caucus stop with any further fights here, which is really saying I'm done with you, President Trump, any reaction from the White House yet?
KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Not a word from the President yet which is telling in and of itself and the White House earlier couldn't say if the Senate Majority Leader gave the President a heads up that he was going to make those remarks on the floor as he's done before on other occasions when at time when he's contradicted the President, those rare occasions.
And Erin, I think talking to White House officials, they realize that the biggest threat is not just that McConnell said this, it's the signal he's sending to other Republicans, which is to cut this out, cut out these efforts that they have been, really enabling and humoring the President on his efforts to try to overturn the election or at least push this public relations campaign and delay the inevitable, which is Joe Biden becoming president.
And yes, there will always be that core group of House members that have supported the President through thick and thin. But this is a message for Senate Republicans and I think that is what poses the danger to the President is that when you start to have more and more Senate Republicans coming out on Capitol Hill and saying that it's time for the President to give these efforts up, and he doesn't have that support, which that support we know he has been desperately seeking. Because he was the one who instructed one of his Republican allies to go and get all of those House members to sign on to that amicus brief for that Texas lawsuit that was rejected by the Supreme Court last week.
So the President is counting and paying attention to who is supporting him in this endeavor. So of course, if that starts to change, the question is how does that affect the President himself. And I think the other thing that could be even more important that McConnell did today, which was what was behind closed doors. In that conversation with Senate Republicans where he asked them not to join those House members and what they're planning to do on January 6th when Congress is, of course, going to ratify Joe Biden's win.
And some of them are planning to object including Mo Brooks from my home state of Alabama. And McConnell is asking those senators to join them in that effort. And that is something that the President has privately been talking about, Erin. So whether or not that actually goes forward is something that the White House is going to be watching and whether or not any of those Senate Republicans join them.
BURNETT: All right. Kaitlan, thank you.
And I want to go now to two Republican former governors, Gov. John Kasich of Ohio and Gov. Christine Todd Whitman of New Jersey. Thanks to both.
Gov. Whitman, let me start with you. The President, right, spending his time still just focused on the election and saying that he won, not anything else, of course, with these incredibly momentous things happening in this country. He's never going to concede ever. He's going to leave but he's not going to concede. What is his game at this point, Governor?
CHRISTINE TODD WHITMAN, FORMER GOVERNOR OF NEW JERSEY: What does he gain? He's just trying to - his mentality will not allow him to lose, it has to have been stolen. If he doesn't win, it was stolen. He can never admit a fault on himself. And what he is doing right now is just appalling, ignoring his role as President of the United States for as you said, quoting before, protect and defend.
It's just mind boggling what's happening, but what he's doing is still feeding his base. He wants to keep that base jammed up. Now whether he has the discipline or the real desire to run again in 2024, right now he doesn't know but he wants that base with him and so he'll keep feeding them because this is what they love to hear. But he is undermining our Constitution.
He is undermining people's faith and what was an extraordinarily well done election, given all of the problems that we have. And now we have enormous issues facing us and he's just burying his head in the sand. It's extraordinary what we're seeing.
BURNETT: Gov. Kasich, it is extraordinary and what's also extraordinary is that it took Sen. McConnell 38 days to do the obvious. Now Kamala Harris is graciously saying, OK, we're glad it's done. It should have been earlier, but now let's work together. OK. That's the gracious thing to do. But it took 38 days. Even Fox News personality Geraldo, big Trump supporter says today, it's over.
But yet even with Geraldo and McConnell, Trump's denial is still making nearly 30 Republicans hold out.
JOHN KASICH, FORMER GOVERNOR OF OHIO: What a duo.
WHITMAN: Just listen to this, Gov. Kasich.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MANU RAJU, CNN SENIOR CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Would you say he's President-elect? Quick question, yes or no, could you say he's President-elect?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[19:10:00]
BURNETT: The questioner is Manu Raju, the non-responder is Sen. Rick Scott. Gov. Kasich, what's going on here?
KASICH: Well, first of all, you're missing out, Erin. He's attending two important issues here. He's working on those showerheads. Now, let's not just dismiss that as being not important. The other thing is how about this guy Cramer? Here's what he said today. He's a Senator, Cramer.
He says - asked him if Biden is President-elect, he said, "Well, it seems to me that being elected by the Electoral College is a threshold where a title like that is probably most appropriate. And it's I suppose you could say official if there is such a thing as official President-elect or anything else elect."
BURNETT: The torture.
KASICH: Now, I tried to go to an interpreter to figure out exactly what that meant. I talked to somebody that understood Swahili, they didn't get it. And I don't know if you get it, but this whole thing, come on, we got to have to start laughing. I mean, it's as serious as my friend Christine Whitman says, but it's absurd. How many of these people are trying to avoid saying the guy won, 38 days it took it took McConnell, it's just ridiculous. Now, the question is with his words that he said today, are we going
to get something through. Now, I was thrilled to hear him say we're not going to leave until we get pandemic relief through.
BURNETT: Yes.
KASICH: And you know there's so many people, they're hungry, they can lose their homes, they've lost their jobs. That was good news for me, because that's about people and that's where we ought to be in this holiday season.
BURNETT: Gov. Whitman, when you talk about what's going to happen here under the Biden administration, what they're going to be able to do, you served in the George W. Bush administration. So Trump obviously is not right now doing his job, but President-elect Biden is trying to name his cabinet very quickly and we've learned former Governor Jennifer Granholm, you're all colleagues, she's going to be the Energy Secretary, that's his pick. For Transportation Secretary he picked the former Democratic presidential candidate, Pete Buttigieg.
And I wanted to play the moment of Biden and Buttigieg together, when Buttigieg got out of the race and he endorsed Biden. It was a very memorable thing. Here's a clip.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT-ELECT OF THE UNITED STATES: I don't think I've ever done this before, but he reminds me of my son Beau. I know that may not mean much to most people, but, to me, it's the highest compliment I can give any man or woman.
And that is that, like Beau, he had a backbone like - he has a backbone like a ramrod. I really mean this. But think about it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: So, Gov. Whitman, Biden clearly wanted to give Buttigieg something big. What does that say, transportation secretary, about his priorities going forward here with Buttigieg in transportation?
WHITMAN: Well, I mean, you've got somebody young and enthusiastic who wants a legacy who's managed things so he knows how to organize. You've got somebody that wants to get things done. And this administration came in promising us great things on infrastructure and not a single thing has happened worth mentioning.
There are a lot of shovel-ready projects ready to go. There are transportation ones, I'm on the board for the magnetic levitation, which is to bring that technology from Japan to the United States. It's ready to go. It's shovel-ready. There are a host of others like that that are out there that are shovel-ready that this administration has sat on and you can Pete Buttigieg is not going to just sit there and let those things go by.
BURNETT: So Gov. Kasich, it does seem President Trump is clinging to a job that he doesn't even want, right? He wants things that go along with it but the job itself, no. No public events in 20 days since Election Day, questions from the press only twice, and you know he used to love that. Nine days on the golf course, zero intelligence briefings that they have set happened since October 2nd.
If he doesn't want to do the job, what does he want do you think, Gov. Kasich?
KASICH: I think Christine's right, I think he wants to keep things stirred up. He wants to keep that base. Now let's talk about the base for a second. These are people who live, and god bless them, they live in a silo. And they get fed all the things that they happen to agree with and they rarely get out of the silo. I've warned in a book I've written about nobody should be stuck in a silo because you only hear that, that you already think and that you have already agree with.
And so these folks are actually shopping around. As you know they're leaving one television network to go to another where they can hear more of what they want and he's feeding that. How big is that base? I don't think it's as big as what people think it is. But he wants to keep that base going. He wants to be relevant. He's trying to reelect the head of the RNC so that he can still have this fingers way in there. Is he going to lose interest? Is he going to fade away? I don't know, Erin.
But I don't think you're going to be down there in front of Mar-A-Lago with a camera waiting on his every word. I don't think that's going to happen.
BURNETT: No.
KASICH: So we got to wait and see what's going to happen, but I hope we can break these people out of the silos so they can begin to breathe some fresh new air and understand how we can make and build a better America.
[19:15:06]
BURNETT: Well, we do - yes, to that point we have a special report on exactly that phenomenon you talked about with other networks coming up later this hour. Gov. Whitman, Gov. Kasich, thank you very much.
KASICH: Thanks, Erin.
BURNETT: And next, a White House security official, his lower leg has been amputated, why? Coronavirus. He has been sick since September. A family friend set up a GoFundMe account. President though hasn't said anything, why?
Plus Joe Biden in Georgia, he wants voters to remember what Republicans have been up to since the election.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BIDEN: They fully embraced nullifying nearly 5 million Georgia votes. You might want to remember that come January 5th.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: And what Gov. Kasich is talking about, a world now filled with lies and conspiracy theories that has seen a waiting surge since Trump lost the election. We'll show you why.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It is not over. It's not actually. You can look it up in the Constitution.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:19:40]
BURNETT: Tonight, President-elect Joe Biden still not saying when he'll be vaccinated for coronavirus as Dr. Anthony Fauci urges him to do it as soon as possible.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BIDEN: Dr. Fauci recommends I get the vaccine sooner than later. I wanted to make sure we do apply the numbers and we do it - but when I do it, you'll have notice and we'll do it publicly.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[19:20:01]
BURNETT: CNN learning Vice President Mike Pence is likely to get vaccinated by Friday and we'll do it on camera. White House Press Secretary Kayleigh McEnany says Trump is open to getting the vaccine but would not commit to timing.
Obviously, he's expressed lots of skepticism about vaccines of all sorts over the years.
OUTFRONT next Dr. Stephen Thomas, Principal Investigator for the Pfizer coronavirus vaccine, which of course is being shipped out as I speak. And Dr. Jonathan Reiner who advised the White House medical unit under President George W. Bush. And I know, Dr. Reiner, you received the vaccine today in your cardiology unit and we have a picture of you getting that vaccine.
So Dr. Reiner, we're told Biden's team expects to make an announcement soon on whether when he'll receive the vaccine. Fauci wants him fully protected by inauguration, so it would take three weeks to do that with the two doses, inauguration day is 36 days away, so he has time but why do you think they haven't committed to a date yet? You originally said do it the night it's approved?
JONATHAN REINER, CNN MEDICAL ANALYST: Yes, I did say that. And I think he should get vaccinated now. It'll actually probably take him more like four weeks, about a week after the boost, which is getting three weeks, so that takes us right up to the inauguration. The President-elect said today that he wants to do it by the numbers.
So I'm sure he doesn't want the appearance that he's jumping the line. But what the numbers also say is that over 300,000 Americans have been killed and the group at greatest risk are those who are older Americans and he's 78 years old, so it's a grave threat to him. He should be vaccinated now.
The other bigger benefit, almost bigger benefit to vaccinating the incoming administration is to show unanimity in the safety and efficacy of these vaccines. Unlike in the spring, when the outgoing president sort of doubted the effectiveness of masks, this will go a long way to show the country that these vaccines are necessary to put this virus down necessary and safe. So I'm sure he'll do it sometime this week.
BURNETT: All right. So Dr. Thomas, White House Press Secretary, Kayleigh McEnany wouldn't say whether President Trump will receive your vaccine. Obviously, he has expressed strong opinions about other vaccine denying and the autism links debunked, et cetera. That's in the past.
But she points out that he had the virus less than three months ago. There's a reason that maybe he wouldn't get it. And I ask you, Doctor, it's a question a lot of people will ask if they've had the virus. Do they still need the vaccine? What's your answer to that at this point, Doctor?
DR. STEPHEN THOMAS, PFIZER INVESTIGATOR FOR COVID-19 VACCINE: First off, Erin, thank you very much for having me back. I do believe that people who have had a previous natural COVID infection should seriously consider getting vaccinated and I feel this way for a couple of reasons. The first is that in both the Pfizer and the Moderna trials, they demonstrated that the vaccine was safe and effective, even in people who had been previously infected.
The second thing I would say is that we really don't fully understand the immune response that occurs after a natural infection and we don't understand how long that it may or may not protect people. The third thing I would say is that, fortunately, this does not seem to be occurring often, but we do know that people can get reinfected.
And so for those reasons, I would propose that people who have been previously infected should strongly consider getting vaccinated.
BURNETT: Right. Which I guess to the point of national security which I know isn't your purview, but that would mean both Trump and Biden should be vaccinated as soon as possible as the commander-in-chief and incoming commander-in-chief.
So Dr. Thomas, you mentioned Moderna and I know that the technology here that you use and they use, obviously, the same. I know they're close to being authorized safe and effective was confirmed by the FDA today.
Now, Moderna also submitted data showing its vaccine could potentially prevent infection, not just prevent people from getting sick. And I know that this may seem like a tight distinction to make to a lot of people but it could be indeed a significant distinction, we just don't know. Do you, from your data, have any indication that the Pfizer vaccine also could do that?
THOMAS: So this is an important concept because we know that people who have asymptomatic infections can actually be infectious to other people and can transmit to other people. I did look at the FDA briefing document today and Moderna did offer some data, but I would say that I think the data set is currently incomplete.
The way that the Pfizer trial was executed, we do have the samples, both the swabs to check for the virus and as well as blood samples to be able to do this analysis. And my guess is that Pfizer is going to be doing this analysis. They're probably already doing this analysis and it'll be reported soon.
One thing I will say is that I do believe that it is highly plausible that a vaccine will be able to induce an immune response such that the amount of virus in the body would be below the threshold that it would make somebody infectious to other people.
[19:25:08]
And we have seen this with other vaccines. So I'm very encouraged and I'm looking forward to seeing the data.
Well, interesting that you say the data is there. It just needs to be analyzed by Pfizer and, obviously, you have 10s of thousands of people in the study, so if the data is there, we'll get the analysis.
Dr. Reiner, let me ask you about today the White House Press Secretary when she was asked about the White House Security Director. So the White House Security Director fell ill with coronavirus in September, has been hospitalized four months, lower leg amputated because of the coronavirus infection. Here's what she said when asked about him.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MCENANY: Our heart goes out to his family and they've asked for privacy and he is recovering from what I understand. We're very pleased to see that, but he and his family will be in our prayers.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Has the President had a chance to speak with him?
MCENANY: I'm not sure if the President's had a private conversation with him nor would I confirm any private conversation that he did have.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: So Dr. Reiner, a friend created a GoFundMe account saying the family is facing staggering medical bills. This is of course a person who worked at the White House, the White House with those outbreaks. President Trump has never mentioned anything about this, any kind of comment, and obviously she won't say whether he has spoken to the security chief, what do you make of that?
REINER: I mean, it suggests a remarkable lack of empathy. If one of my team members was sick, I would be with them constantly on the phone in person if I could. This is somebody who ran a large operation at the White House and has suffered really massively as a consequence of becoming infected with this virus.
The President has about 80 million Twitter followers. Imagine if the President had tweeted that my team member is sick, here's his go GoFundMe account, reach out to him. Imagine what that would do for the family. So it's not too late for him to do that, do that, Mr. President, that will be a good thing.
BURNETT: All right. Well, I thank you both very much. I'll leave all of you with the picture of Dr. Reiner, since you see him every night getting a shot. The first shot. There you go. I know in 21 days, you'll get the second but a minute you are allowed to get it you got it as all Americans should when their number comes up.
Thank you both so very much. I appreciate seeing you.
And now to the COVID relief bill that millions of Americans are depending on House and Senate leaders about to resume marathon negotiations behind closed doors. Mitch McConnell says we're staying till it's done. The clock runs out on December 26. That's when 12 million Americans will lose federal unemployment benefits.
OUTFRONT now, Sen. Maggie Hassan of New Hampshire. She is one of the senators working on a bipartisan compromise. So Senator, I really appreciate your time. I was talking to a couple folks today who have been - as part of this, these negotiations, and then the thought is that this is real that this might really happen. That there's been other optimistic times that have fallen through, but this is not one of them, this really is it. Do you have that feeling?
SEN. MAGGIE HASSAN (D-NH): Yes. Thanks for having me on, Erin. Look, we are hearing from our constituents. I certainly am hearing from people in New Hampshire.
All of us are hearing from Americans all across the country, about the need for a relief package now, whether you're an individual trying to figure out how you're going to pay your rent or put food on the table, whether you're a small business owner, let's say a restaurant owner and you know that you're not going to be able to have outdoor seating in the cold winter months, whether you are running a hospital or a nursing home, whether you're an educator trying to figure out how to keep the school safe for your students, whether you're a state or local government, trying to make sure firefighters are on the job.
We need this relief package. We need it now. And this bipartisan group of us have really worked very hard to come up with a package that we think all Republicans and Democrats can agree to.
BURNETT: OK. So there is a package and it's about $750 billion. But you mentioned aid to things like firefighters, my understanding is any funding for state and local governments as well as the liability protections that Republicans wanted are in a separate bill.
HASSAN: Right.
BURNETT: Does one come with the other? I mean, are you willing to go ahead and get the first bill out the door that would help the restaurant owners and other Americans regardless of what happens to state and local aid?
HASSAN: Well, that was the idea of putting forward these two packages from our bipartisan group. There is complete agreement among all of us on the $750 billion package that would provide immediate relief, including that critical extension of unemployment benefits for people now. I am continuing to urge Senate Majority Leader McConnell to delink the aid to state and localities from the liability protections which are complex, and we still have some questions about.
But to the extent that the Senate Majority Leader is going to insist that those two go together, we think it's important to get the first package out as quickly as possible.
[19:30:07]
BURNETT: Sen. Hassan, McConnell is saying that he's going to keep the Senate in session until this is done. He's got until the 26th. But obviously, you say your group is on -- completely on the same page about the $750 billion package.
HASSAN: Right.
BURNETT: Will there be a deal on that tomorrow?
HASSAN: I don't know about the precise timing. I do know that what we were able to do was give a pre-negotiated big package to our leadership and say, here are things that this bipartisan group from around the country can agree on. We gave them text.
So, we are very hopeful that there will be a deal as quickly as possible. I agree that we should not go home until this is done.
BURNETT: Senator, I appreciate your time. Thank you very much.
HASSAN: Thank you. Take care, and be safe.
BURNETT: All right. And next, President Trump taking his feud with Republican leaders to a new level. Now suggesting some should be put in jail, jail for refusing to overturn the election.
And now all signs point to Russia, but the Trump administration waffling right now when it comes to blaming Russia for the recent cyber attack. Why? Former CIA Director John Brennan will be OUTFRONT.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:35:10]
BURNETT: Tonight, President-elect Biden in Georgia, for the first time, the crucial Senate runoff races, saying voters need to remember Republicans' efforts to overturn the election results.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOE BIDEN (D), PRESIDENT-ELECT: They fully embraced nullifying nearly 5 million Georgia votes. You might want to remember that come January 5th.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Interesting, of course, since the leadership of the state, the Republicans have stood up to that. But, obviously, plenty of others have not.
Biden urging Georgians to, quote, shock the nation by turning out in record numbers. And he's counting on a key number of voters to deliver Democrats another victory in the state.
Kyung Lah is OUTFRONT.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We did it one time, we're going to do it again.
KYUNG LAH, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Call it shout out the vote in the neighborhoods of Columbus, Georgia.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Your vote counted.
LAH: LaTosha Brown of Black Voters Matter and a caravan of buses weave through the cities.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We're going through the neighborhood.
LAH: As early voting kicks off for the state's two Senate seats in the January 5th runoffs.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The job is not finished. Got to do it again. We got to do it again.
LATOSHA BROWN, CO-FOUNDER, BLACK VOTERS MATTER: There is no path for the Democratic Party to flip these two seats without the acknowledgment, not just the acknowledgment, but the impact and work of black voters.
LAH: LaTosha Brown and black women organizers like Stacey Abrams harnessed years of their grassroots work.
BROWN: We need those seats in Georgia. Stay in Georgia, y'all.
LAH: In the 2020 election, nearly 30 percent of voters were black with the majority of them voting for Democrats helping flip Georgia blue in November. The two Democratic Senate challengers are counting on that turnout to beat the incumbent Republicans in January.
BIDEN: We've got to vote. LAH: At stake, control of the U.S. Senate. Why President-elect Joe
Biden is campaigning in Georgia. Historically, Democrats have not shown up to the polls in runoffs. The earliest of Georgia's early voters say it's different this time. Before sunrise as rain fell, we met Kenya Debarros waiting to early vote.
KENYA DEBARROS, GEORGIA DEMOCRATIC VOTER: It's snow flurrying now. I have worn more layers if I know it was going to be like this.
LAH: But you haven't left.
DEBARROS: No. This election is too important.
LAH: Also in this pre-dawn line, Republican David Koon.
DAVID KOON, GEORGIA REPUBLICAN VOTER: We never give up. We always vote and we always vote this way.
LAH: As the day goes on and the line grows, Republicans say they believe President Trump's baseless attacks on the election.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Our votes should mean something. They don't mean anything now.
LAH: But they still voted.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Just voted, early voting and we're thrilled to have voted.
LAH: It may sound contradictory, but the Republican voters we meet are listening to this call.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I want you to vote early, right? Vote early.
LAH: This is Republican Senator David Perdue's bus tour as he meets supporters they tell us --
Do you think at this point you can say Joe Biden is the president, that he won?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No.
LAH: Why not?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Because I still believe in a miracle.
LAH: Even as reality closes in.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don't think it's going to impact the Republicans. The Republicans are going to get out and vote in the Senate race.
LAH: Republicans determined to demonstrate Georgia remains red, Democrats running a race to prove the road ahead is blue.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Let's do it again. (END VIDEOTAPE)
LAH (on camera): Among the biggest changes in the runoffs, as compared to the general election, the number of voting locations.
In Cobb County, for example, where we were talking to the early voters, in the general election, there were 11 early vote locations. In the runoffs, that's been reduced to five. Well, after complaints led by the NAACP, the county agreed to add two voting locations, Erin, but only for the third week of early vote -- Erin.
BURNETT: OK. All right. Kyung, thank you very much.
So, now let's go to Van Johnson, the Democratic mayor of Savannah, Georgia, and Erick Erickson, conservative talk radio host and long time Georgia resident, joining us from Macon.
OK. Thank you both.
So, Mayor Johnson, nearly 30 percent of Georgia voters in the election were black. You just heard the stats from Kyung. The majority of them, of course, voted for Biden.
But that was a presidential election. Do you believe from what you're seeing right now in these first days of early voting that you're going to see the same turnout for the Senate runoff?
MAYOR VAN JOHNSON (D), SAVANNAH, GEORGIA: Thanks for the opportunity. To be very clear, this is 2020. It's a new game. It's a new dawn.
And the fact is, people recognize the significance of this moment that we're in right now. This is an opportunity not only to change the landscape in Georgia, but to change the landscape for the United States.
[19:40:05]
I think people are very, very cognizant of the role they're playing in this by just getting out to vote.
BURNETT: So, Erick, you heard some Republicans talking to Kyung Lah, right? They were voting early and they're saying President Trump won the election. They believe his false attacks on the election's integrity.
But, nonetheless, they are voting in the Senate runoffs anyway, right? So, they are voting. But when you look at Trump's attacks and how they may be working, 16 percent of Republican voters now say they're less likely to vote in the presidential election. Only 6 percent of Democrats said that according to a new Fox News poll.
Are you worried that this could depress Republican turnout?
ERICK ERICKSON, CONSERVATIVE RADIO HOST: Yeah. Listen, it doesn't help when the president of the United States comes out and says the governor of Georgia and the secretary of state need to be rounded up and arrested. It's a very mixed message.
You know, Republicans across the state today went to the mailboxes, myself included, I should have thought to bring it in here, and we all got mail pieces that have the vice president on it saying go vote early. Here's the website to get your secure absentee ballot in Georgia, not the president's face on the mail piece, the vice president. He comes back to Georgia tomorrow to campaign for Republicans. Pence has been over the state several times, but the president coming back.
But, clearly, there's a real mixed message for Republicans. I still get people call on my radio show and say, I'm not voting, it was stolen and then they're just going to steal it again.
BURNETT: Right. I mean, as you point out, pretty mixed message when you're saying -- when you are saying the governor and secretary of state should be going to jail and they happen to be Republican when you are Republican president.
All right. Mayor Johnson, SO Biden went to Atlanta today. He waited to the Electoral College formal result, right, before he came down and campaigned in person. Then he went there today and made the case for why he needs two Democrats because he says, to get his agenda done, he needs to those Democrats. And he does indeed for the balance of power.
Here's what he said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BIDEN: I need two senators from this state, I want to get something done, not two senators who are just going to get in the way. Send me these two men and we will control the Senate and we will change the lives of people in Georgia.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: So, you know, I know he mentioned Georgia there, mayor. He's rationalizing it. Some people say that could be difficult, when you are doing a local election it needs to be painfully local.
Are you -- do you share that worry for Democrats?
JOHNSON: Well, again, I think we're staying very, very focused. We recognize that this has national implications. But in Georgia, we're just looking for senators that are going to be responsive to the needs of Georgia, Senators that are going to be around and visit Georgians, and to understand the need of Georgians, work for health care for Georgians, and make sure Georgians have the money they need to be able to survive every day.
So, although there are national implications, we recognize we have to stay focused, local folks are still on the same message, it had not changed. We need senators that are going to be responsive to us.
BURNETT: So, Erick, let's go back to the jail thing, okay? Because -- but Republicans, right, they want to be unified ahead of the runoff elections, right? But it's impossible to be when President Trump has a feud with Georgia Governor Brian Kemp, where he's told people to go, you know, storm the governor's mansion, retweeting pro-Trump attorney Lin Wood's bizarre assertion that Kemp and Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger were, quote, soon be in jail.
What is your reaction to that? I don't know whether those masks that they had on there, what --
ERICKSON: Listen, there's also this rumor related to that picture that they're in the pay of China, they trying to bring Chinese businesses here and were bought off by China to relocate companies here if the Democrats won. I -- this is a message that the fringiest of the party, it's believed.
There are a lot of people who are Trump voters, not Republican voters. Those people may stay home. Republicans are going to have to offset them with libertarian voters who voted in the general and may come back for David Perdue, because all (ph) libertarians are very Second Amendment focused.
So, if you go outside the Atlanta area, the message from the Republicans is a lot about guns, inside the Atlanta area, it's an economic message, but it's a very muddy message when your president comes down and says, these jokers stole the election and Brian Kemp needs to go to jail.
BURNETT: And, Mayor, one final question to you. You know, I was talking to a state senator from Georgia, you know, one of the first to say, look, Biden won the state, even though, obviously, long time Republican. You know, he's talking about Biden won and a lot of down ballots, right, for Republican, right? There were a lot of people who wanted the split ticket.
Do you think you could see that at the polls now, right? That people say, look, you know what, maybe I like Joe Biden but I don't want him to have all of this power in the Senate.
JOHNSON: Well, I think that's absolutely true. I think that is why all of the ground efforts that you highlighted earlier is so important. We have to stay on message. We have to continue to talk about records. We have to continue to set the narrative about why Democratic candidates are better than Republicans incumbents.
[19:45:05]
Because when people go to the polls, they make an individual choice on what's best for them.
It is about who is going to serve us best locally. And then the national politics will take care of itself.
BURNETT: All right. Thank you both very much as always. Appreciate your time.
And next, former CIA Director John Brennan is my guest. How worried is he? Suspected Russian hackers attacked, were able to get past cyber experts at the Department of Homeland Security, the most consequential attack we've ever seen.
And we'll take you inside the far right world, where Trump's allies seemed to have convinced the president and unfortunately some of his supporters that is is not is. The election is not over.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BURNETT: Tonight, U.S. officials investigating what an NSA official tells "The New York Times" is the most consequential hack in American history, into the top echelons of the U.S. government.
CNN learning Russian-linked hackers are suspected in a data breach of multiple federal agencies, Department of Homeland Security, Department of Agriculture, Department of Treasury, Department of Commerce, U.S. postal service may be impacted, Fortune 500 companies, and nuclear facilities.
A source telling CNN there will no doubt be more targets. OUTFRONT now, former CIA Director John Brennan, author of the new book "Undaunted: My Fight Against Americas Enemies at Home and Abroad".
So, Director Brennan, it has been 48 hours since we have learned about the attack. We still don't know the full scope, right? But we know, agency after agency in the federal government, Fortune 500 companies, all telecoms companies, nuclear facilities, I mean, and the most consequential in history says an official from the NSA to "The New York Times".
How big do you think this could be?
JOHN BRENNAN, FORMER CIA DIRECTOR: Well, the scope and duration of this attack since it's reportedly been going on for the past several months make it possibly the most damaging in U.S. cyber history. It's a very, very sophisticated attack.
And reports indicated it was carried out by the Russian SVR, which is a rough equivalent of the CIA inside of Russia. They are probably one of the most sophisticated cyber actors worldwide. And you have two aspects of carrying out these attacks. One is, how do you penetrate systems? And then, secondly, how do you extract information?
And what they did was they put malware into the commercial software updates that are automatically sent out to all of the clients in the government and outside.
And that malware the sat within the system of networks and then started to extract information, and not through known Russian IP addresses, but, again, according to press reports, U.S. IP addresses that were not identified as being possible conveyors of this information that was going out to the system.
So, the fact that so many departments and agencies were affected, the fact it was going on for so long, the fact that, again, the Russians appear to be able to pull this information out, makes it very, very worrisome. BURNETT: Very worrisome when you think about things like, you know,
all the nuclear facilities, nuclear military facilities. What's your -- I mean, that sounds fearsome.
BRENNAN: Yeah, these are unclassified systems of networks. That doesn't mean they don't carry a lot of very, very sensitive information at these departments and agencies. So I am sure the Russians were looking for any information that might get them insight into vulnerabilities of systems, of infrastructure, of individuals, again, trying to take out information that's going to give them insight into what the United States is planning to do overseas, as well as what our vulnerabilities are here at home.
And so, this is what intelligence services tried to do, and that digital environment, you know, these networks are the backbone of the Internet. And so, they were able to extract this information, getting past the sensors that have been put in place by the U.S. government over the last decade. And we have some very sophisticated sensors, but just the way our sensors, you know, were designed a decade ago, they need to be updated in order to take into account these very sophisticated attacks.
(CROSSTALK)
BURNETT: Amazing. I mean, it's really -- it's really, you know, amazing for people to understand the most consequential attack in U.S. history. I know officials are trying to determine who is behind the attack, right? Obviously, all roads, so far, lead to the Russians, as you have referenced.
The Secretary of State Mike Pompeo suggests Russia was involved. Here he is.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
MIKE POMPEO, SECRETARY OF STATE: I can't say much other than it's been a consistent effort of the Russians to try and get into American servers, not only those of government agencies but of businesses.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
BURNETT: All right. So he will go that far, but the president of the United States hasn't said anything.
He hasn't said anything about the attack. He hasn't said anything about outrage about it. He hasn't said about the Russians. He says absolutely nothing at all.
What do you think is behind his silence?
BRENNAN: I think it's -- that he's been so distracted with his own personal political problems that he is focusing exclusively on that, and he is not fulfilling the role of commander-in-chief and chief executive, and trying to keep this country safe and secure. This is been going on for months. And what does he continue to tweet about? You know, his own sort of
personal crusade to try to, you know, stage this coup against President-elect Biden.
So, it's very, very unfortunate. I'm hoping that the professionals will continue to focus on this, because this is potentially again very, very damaging.
BURNETT: All right. Director Brennan, I appreciate your time as always. Thank you, sir.
BRENNAN: Thank you, Erin.
BURNETT: And next, we'll show you where Trump's supporters are headed to escape what's really happening.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Our president is in the fight of his life.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:56:53]
BURNETT: In tonight's conspiracy callout, pro-Trump media outlets seeing their popularity surged. Newsmax's ratings, for example, topping Fox Business's and even Fox News's at one point, all by pretending that President Trump still might remain President Trump in January.
Brian Stelter is OUTFRONT.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Our president is in the fight of his life.
BRIAN STELTER, CNN CHIEF MEDIA CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Now that the Electoral College has affirmed Joe Biden's victory, some right- wing shows and sites don't know what to do.
This banner on Newsmax asking, "Is it time to move on?"
While attorney Alan Dershowitz is saying, yes.
ALAN DERSHOWITZ, ATTORNEY: The election will be confirmed.
STELTER: But some far-right outlets are still peddling false hope, knowing that that's with their audience wants.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Many Americans are questioning the electoral process --
STELTER: One American News, a channel promoted by President Trump, running segments like this, claiming election manipulation is a long term goal of the left, carrying hearings about voter machine security, and airing highlights from Saturday's pro-Trump rally in D.C. days later to boost the spirits of Trump fans.
With Fox News mostly accepting that Trump's time is up --
CHRIS WALLACE, FOX NEWS ANCHOR: That Joe Biden is the next president of the United States.
STELTER: -- some Trump defenders are flipping over to OAN and Newsmax instead.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you accept that Trump lost Georgia?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Trump didn't lose anything.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No, yeah, no.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Where do you get your news and information? Is it online? TV?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Newsmax now, though, because we don't trust Fox News.
STELTER: Officially, Newsmax now says Biden is the president-elect and will be referred to that way. But host Greg Kelly is telling viewers to stay tuned.
GREG KELLY, NEWSMAX HOST: It is not over.
STELTER: And other pro Trump personalities are turning against anyone who gives Biden legitimacy.
SEN. MITCH MCCONNELL (R-KY), MAJORITY LEADER: Today, I want to congratulate President-elect Joe Biden.
STELTER: Fox's Mark Levin lashed out at Mitch McConnell on Twitter on Tuesday, saying, thanks for nothing, Mitch, and calling for fresh thinking and new blood in the Senate.
And Rush Limbaugh framed Trump's Supreme Court loss as some sort of elitist plot.
RUSH LIMBAUGH, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: This is strictly about getting rid of Donald Trump. There isn't an entity in the -- in the American deep state, Washington establishment, whatever, that doesn't want to get rid of Donald Trump, including enough justices on the Supreme Court.
STELTER: There is supply for these lies because there is demand for these lies.
Demand that is not going away, even if the Geraldo Riveras of the world say that it should. GERALDO RIVERA, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT AT LARGE: It is over. I want
the president, my friend, the current president, the 45th president, to understand it is over. The Electoral College has voted.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
STELTER (on camera): Geraldo talking to Trump through the TV again, but he is counteracted by dishonest hosts like Greg Kelly on Newsmax, who said once again tonight that he thinks Trump might be inaugurated again next month.
I want to be clear, Erin, these programs have far fewer ratings than CNN, for example. Newsmax still relatively small, but it is growing in size. There is only one word to describe what's happening here, in America, that word is radicalization.
BURNETT: Yeah, it is. I mean, it's disturbing. It's disturbing that, you know, so many people who know better are willing to go out and say such things on television.
Thank you very much, Brian. I appreciate your time.
And appreciate all of yours always.
Anderson is now.
