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Erin Burnett Outfront
Trump Holding Georgia Rally On Election Eve; At Least 13 GOP Senators Say They'll Object To Election Results In Addition To At Least 140 House Republicans; GOP Senators In Georgia Runoffs Back Effort To Object Election Results; New York Announces First Case Of U.K. Variant As England Goes Into National Lockdown Amid Surge In Cases. Aired 7-8p ET
Aired January 04, 2021 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST: Demetra was very independent and always put others before herself. May they rest in peace and may their memories be a blessing.
Thanks very much for watching. I'm Wolf Blitzer. I'll be back tomorrow 4 pm Eastern for special coverage of the Georgia Senate runoffs.
"ERIN BURNETT OUTFRONT" starts right now.
ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST: OUTFRONT next, a brutal takedown of President Trump. Georgia's top election official blowing up Trump's conspiracy theories one at a time. He's our guest.
Plus, breaking news, more senators tonight say they back the effort to object to certifying Joe Biden's win in the House on Wednesday.
And New York announces its first case of the new highly contagious coronavirus strain as scientists race to find out whether vaccines work against several new strains. Let's go OUTFRONT.
And good evening. I'm Erin Burnett.
OUTFRONT tonight, a blistering and methodical takedown of Trump. Georgia's Election Chief, who will join me in just a moment, today blew up Trump's conspiracy theories and lies about the election one by one, from a doctored video from a Georgia election facility, which purports to show election fraud. Take a look at this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: ... tape that we're going to release. It's devastating. And by the way, that one event, that one event is much more than the 11,000 votes that we're talking about.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: The tape. OK, that was Trump and he's talking in a 60 minute phone call with Georgia election officials, Republicans. So he talks about this video, this stunning thing, oh, you're going to see it all. OK. Then there are facts. And here's the Georgia Election Chief Gabe Sterling's response today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GABRIEL STERLING, VOTING SYSTEM IMPLEMENTATION MANAGER, GEORGIA: The President's legal team had the entire tape. They watched the entire tape and then from our point of view intentionally misled the State Senate, voters and the people of United States about this. It was intentional. It was obvious and anybody watching this knows that. Anyone watching it knows that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: The President, I guess, is hoping people don't watch it, just hear what he says because it wasn't the only completely bogus conspiracy theory that Trump threw out on that call.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: So dead people voted, and I think the number is close to 5,000 people.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: The truth, again, from Gabe Sterling.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
STERLING: County by county shows potentially two, so far two.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Two or close to 5,000. I mean, this is ridiculous. And by the way, when it comes to ballots, the President on that call pushed this baseless claim.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: We hear they're shredding thousands and thousands of ballots and now what they say, "Oh, we're just cleaning up the office."
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Sterling again forced to clean up that, why?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
STERLING: There is no shredding of ballots going on. That's not real.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: And when it comes to one of the most absurd lies from the President, this tweet about Georgia Secretary of State, Brad Raffensperger, that his followers called Ron, let's just take a look at this. Trump tweets, "Now it turns out that Brad R's brother works for China, and they definitely don't want 'Trump'." So I guess he's putting out there, if you saw this tweet, that clearly
the Secretary of State of Georgia, the Republicans working for China because he has a brother who does work for China. Well, it doesn't add up in any way, shape or form. Again, the facts.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
STERLING: Secretary Raffensperger does not have a brother named Ron Raffensperger. That is also not real. The President tweeted that out as well.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: OK. That's not real. And speaking of Brad Raffensperger, the Secretary of State of Georgia, he too has refused to take this from the President. During that call on Saturday, you can hear him again and again calmly pausing and then shutting down the President.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BRAD RAFFENSPERGER, (R) GEORGIA SECRETARY OF STATE: We don't agree that you have won.
Well, Mr. President, the challenge that you have is the data you have is wrong.
TRUMP: And why did they put the votes in three times? They put them in three times.
RAFFENSPERGER: Mr. President, they did not put that. We did an audit of that, and we've proved conclusively that they were not scanned three times.
Mr. President, the problem that you have with social media, people can say anything.
TRUMP: No, this isn't social media. This is Trump media.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: OK. Well, there is the one true thing he said. It is Trump media and it is currently full of conspiracies and lies believed by, spread by and sometimes even created by Donald J. Trump himself. These things that Trump is saying are all factually untrue and totally fabricated. The problem is a lot of people believe them.
And yet, whether this is a sick game or the sign of a deeply sick mind, Trump is automating right now, parroting something that is a lie again and again on that phone call saying that he won.
[19:05:03]
He won. He won. "We won the state." "I won the state." "We have won this election." "You know we won the state." "It's pretty clear we won." "We won the election." I mean, again and again and again. So whether it's a sick game or the President of the United States has
the sickness of the mind, it's doing damage. And he's about to do it again moments away from making his last campaign speech as president in Georgia and he says it will be full of the likes of what you just heard.
Kaitlan Collins is OUTFRONT and Dalton, Georgia where the President is holding a rally tonight. So Kaitlan, what is the President's mindset right now coming into this speech?
KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, if you talk to people who speak to the President, Erin, they say he is much more focused on relitigating his election loss than he is on securing a win for Republicans here in Georgia tomorrow. And one piece of evidence of that is that we are now learning from sources the President debated canceling this rally here tonight, which of course means so much to David Perdue and Kelly Loeffler as they are in this high-stakes race, because he was so upset about how that call with the Georgia Secretary of State went on Saturday.
So of course, that just kind of gives you a world view into what the President's mindset is right now as he is making his way through these final days in office. And if you've listened to that hour-long call, it's basically just the President speaking the entire time. He cuts off his own attorneys who are asking the Secretary of State's office to give them the data that they have about these votes.
And these are attorneys that we should note the President's own staff are having trouble keeping up with because there have been so many new faces as the President has gone throughout this journey. And on top of that, there are fewer senior staffers around the President because they're either lining up new jobs after he does leave the White House at the end of this month or they're basically just checked out from the West Wing.
So you're seeing the President surrounded by a smaller circle that is really fueling his theories that he has continued to push in light of even election officials like Gabriel Sterling saying the President is wrong. But of course, the concern is that the President is going to take down the Republican Senate Majority with him by making this all about himself by discouraging Republican voters from going to the polls tomorrow.
Because even just here a few moments ago at this rally, they played a new video where they were saying that the election was rife with fraud that was overwhelming which, of course, even his own election officials have said is not the case. Yet, that is what the President is pushing and that is what his supporters here tonight are hearing one day ahead of that senate race.
BURNETT: All right. Thank you very much, Kaitlan. And that crowd behind Kaitlan, no doubt, you can assume a lot of people and this is why this is so deeply damaging, believe what Trump is saying. OUTFRONT now, a top Georgia Election Official Voting System Implementation Manager Republican Gabe Sterling, as I promised with me. So Gabe, well, I'm glad to talk to you in one way, I'm not in another,
because it means this is still happening. So you went through the video, you went through the shredder ballots, you went through the dead people, you went through the brother who doesn't exist who isn't named Ron to begin with. Point by point taking down that call, the President's claims, that you felt important to do so, what compelled you to do it?
GABRIEL STERLING, VOTING SYSTEM IMPLEMENTATION MANAGER, GEORGIA: Well, thanks, Erin. Again, well, it's good to talk to you, again, the circumstances aren't exactly ideal. One of the big reasons is the President's actions and statements and those of his team are essentially suppressing the vote in Georgia. And what's happening is he's telling your vote doesn't count and we're trying to explain to people diligently with facts as calmly as we can, as transparently as we can, your vote counts. And if you want to see your values and your policies reflected and you want to vote, go vote.
And then like I said today, if you really deeply believe that somebody cheated, is that you're obligation to go vote to make it harder for them to cheat even though we have really no evidence of that at all.
BURNETT: Right. So I mean, he goes and says 5,000 dead people voted and you said two. He says there are shredded ballots that there aren't. He says there's this video that shows packing up - he's kept talking about that, it doesn't show that. I mean, these things just didn't happen. But when you hear an hour long phone call and you hear him saying this stuff again and again, just cutting people off and plowing over them. What was your first reaction when you actually heard it out of his mouth conspiracy after conspiracy?
STERLING: Well, I mean, this isn't the first time we've heard this. I mean, I've heard you guys before you're surprised and I'm like no, I'm not surprised and you're not surprised, none of us are surprised. I mean, I can remember I was listening to the audio, I basically yelled at the computer a couple of times. And then when I was driving into work today, there was a radio ad paid for by Trump for president talking about State Farm Arena and suitcases of ballots. And I'm like, "That didn't happen. You know that didn't happen."
And I keep on explaining this over and over again. Like I said, it's like Groundhog Day.
BURNETT: Right. And here's the problem, as I say, people believe it and there's this bizarre thing that the more you put out facts sometimes people believe there's a cover up. There's that conspiracy theory damaging world that some people live in and the President had been trying to call Raffensperger, I guess, rake him over the coals here. Eighteen times we understand, that he had tried to call him 18 times.
Were you aware of that, that Trump has tried to call him nearly 20 times?
[19:10:07] STERLING: Well, I've heard of that today for the first time. What we
found out is the staff was calling our press line, which is sort of manned by the intern of the day. And if you get a call from the White House in the press line, usually you're not going to believe it.
And there's people in the White House who have the secretary's number, who have the deputy secretary's number and finally they hooked up. But I mean it's not like they're hard to get to. You kind of know who these people are, if you're calling the press line that kind of says something about the staff work going on.
BURNETT: I mean, that's incredible. That is incredible. So they're literally calling the staff line when there are people in the White House who has it - you're right, it does say something pretty significant actually about how all this is being handled.
I want to ask about one other thing, Gabe, that I didn't get to play in the beginning of the show and that is Trump talking about this whole recording of the call itself. So Jack O'Donnell used to work for Trump. He was a casino executive for him for years and has talked about it extensively. And he told us tonight and I quote Jack, "I was warned early on after I joined the organization," talking about the Trump Organization, "to be cautious on all my calls with Donald. I was told to assume all calls were being recorded, it was just what he does, his MO."
Now, Gabe, I can tell you I've been in an office with Trump not when he was president, before President. He would always, oh, don't say anything. I'm going to call this person, be quiet when you're in the room listening. I mean, I've seen it myself. We know the President records everything, but the Republican Senator David Perdue who is obviously on the ballot tomorrow said this to Fox News about Raffensperger recording his conversation with Trump.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DAVID PERDUE, CANDIDATE FOR U.S. SENATOR: To have a statewide elected official, regardless of party, to the tape without disclosing a conversation, a private conversation with the President of the United States and then leaking it to the press now is disgusting.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: I mean, discussing, obviously the President does it himself all the time. Were you surprised that Raffensperger felt it necessary to record his call with the President and that the audio was leaked?
STERLING: As I've stated earlier today, there's a history of the President not necessarily characterizing things the way they actually are. So having a backup recording is probably the better part of valor for most anybody who's going to be discussing anything with him. And as you said, he has a history of recording these things.
And the reason I think that part of it is leaked by multiple sources, I believe, but the President put out a tweet totally mischaracterizing what happened on the call. So I think now through transparency, people have seen what happened on that call and it was inappropriate in many people's minds. I think that it's better to have that information out there. I disagree with the senator's characterization of this, it's disgusting. I mean, let's be fair.
And one other thing that the Secretary has said earlier today, the day that the Senator and his colleagues, Sen. Loeffler called for the Secretary's resignation was the day that Brad Raffensperger's wife are getting sexualized violent texts. And so far neither of them I think have talked to Brad about that directly to apologize for what happened on that front and that's what's more disgusting than anything.
BURNETT: Yes. All right. Well, Gabe, thank you very much as always.
STERLING: Thank you, Erin. Please one thing.
BURNETT: Yes.
STERLING: If you're in Georgia, your vote is going to count. Please get out and vote.
BURNETT: Yes. I hope every single person in Georgia who hasn't voted does vote. It is important. If you want your vote to be heard, people should understand that. As you said, you've had the most secure election. That last election you had, every single one of those ballots, Gabe, you said it again and again, right, paper trail, people should know it's safe and secure and they should vote.
STERLING: All right. Thank you.
BURNETT: All right. Thanks, Gabe. And one of the nation's preeminent constitutional law scholars Harvard Law Professor Laurence Tribe is back with me now. He was part of Al Gore's legal team during the 2000 election recount.
So professor, you've been with me again and again through all this just as Gabe has and he's come out again and again debunked methodically every single one of these claims. Now, I want you to look at this from a legal perspective, when you listen to the 60 minutes of call and the President saying he won and putting all of these falsehoods out there and saying at one point very clearly that 'there's nothing wrong with saying that you've recalculated to the Georgia Secretary of State'. Did the President commit a crime?
LAURENCE TRIBE, HARVARD LAW PROFESSOR: It sure sounds like it. I mean, I've almost never heard a crime committed on a live tape, let alone by the President of the United States. But this very much looks like a violation of the federal extortion statute because he was basically threatening to get this Raffensperger prosecuted criminally, unless he did him the favor of saying he had recalculated. It was also the federal crime of false ballot tabulation and encouraging false ballot tabulation under 52 USC 20511.
[19:15:06]
It also looks like it violated the criminal laws of Georgia which are well-beyond the President's pardon powers. It's staggering. It really was like listening to a crime boss, but not a very smart one just commit crimes for an hour on a live audio. My jaw couldn't have fallen farther. It was just staggering.
And what's sad is how all of these Republicans are going to line up behind him anyway. It won't matter. It won't change anything on the 6th of January, but it sure as hell will set a terrible precedent.
BURNETT: So let me ask you about this though, when you say you think clearly crimes and you list several of them. OK. So on the federal level I know you've made it clear you don't think that the President could pardon himself. All right. But putting that aside for a moment, you're making the point that he could have violated Georgia law. So what would be the repercussions of that if that is pursued by the State of Georgia?
TRIBE: Right. And no one suggests that the President can wipe away state crimes with the pardon power. And even if the Georgia GA locally or the Georgia Attorney General manages somehow to look the other way, there's also the Manhattan prosecution and the Letitia James prosecution in New York State. So no wonder this President is so desperate and delusionally desperate to hold on to power beyond January 20th. The moment he falls down that presidential shield, it looks like an orange jumpsuit awaits him. It's really scary for him, I'm sure.
BURNETT: OK. So let me ask you about this, though, when you hear that call. There's been reporting all the way along and I know people have been in the Oval Office with the President say, well, he knew. He kind of got the game he got that he lost. And then one of those people told me a few weeks ago that something has changed that the President now no longer believes that he lost, that he truly believes some of this stuff.
So when you hear him going on talking about a video that Gabe Sterling has repeatedly gone through frame by frame, it's BS. Shredding ballots, it didn't happen. The 5,000 dead people voted, two dead people voted. Ballots counted three times. It didn't happen.
So all of this has been debunked so carefully and yet he still does it. So do you think he's playing a game here? Do you think that he has a mental issue at this point? Like what explains this?
TRIBE: He obviously has some kind of mental issue. He's delusional, he's desperate, but that's not going to be a compelling defense. I think I heard George Connelly (ph) use a great analogy this morning. This is like if I break into your house and I say, well, I thought it was my house. And you say, well, what made you think that. And you say, well, I told everybody I thought that. It's not going to be very convincing.
In this case, even if he's managed to convince himself that he's invincible, he couldn't possibly have lost. He says, look, everybody thinks I won and so I won. And I've said I won and so I've won. In the end that's not much of an insanity defense, but that's about the only defense he has. And it's really terrifying to have a president so delusional that the
only argument in response to the claim that he's a deliberate, intentional criminal is that we've got a crazy man with his hands on the nuclear button turning around the aircraft carrier Nimitz over the decision of his Pentagon in the Persian Gulf at a time when who knows what he might try to do in order to stave off facing the music.
This is not a happy time in our country and I'm confident for the long run. But for the next 16 days, I think we've got to put on our seat belts.
BURNETT: All right. Professor Tribe, thank you as always.
TRIBE: Thanks.
BURNETT: And next breaking news, new video of President Trump just before leaving the White House heading to Georgia tonight. You can see him speaking pretty animatedly to the Vice President Mike Pence who is about to preside over the final confirmation of Biden's win and Pence said something very interesting today about that.
Plus, President Trump about to speak in Georgia, but does he even want the Republican candidates to win there? What one Georgia Republican is telling CNN tonight?
And then this, this is what Ted Cruz used to think of Trump.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. TED CRUZ (R-TX): Donald, you're a sniveling coward. Leave Heidi the hell alone.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Now he's his biggest sycophant. What changed?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:23:25]
BURNETT: Breaking news, new video just into CNN of President Trump meeting with Vice President Pence at the White House tonight. That's just hours after Trump's personal lawyer Rudy Giuliani said they would be meeting to discuss what Pence will do when he presides over the certification of the Electoral College results on Wednesday. Now, his role there is really ceremonial, so what are they planning?
But we do know that at least 13 Republicans are now planning to object to the Electoral College results. The latest is the Republican Senator Kelly Loeffler of Georgia who announced she'll challenge the results just moments ago. That is 13 more senators than Mitch McConnell thought he'd have because he asked them all to stop all of this nonsense, yet they're now 13 not zero, 13 and they are in addition to at least 140 House Republicans that Jake Tapper has reported will object on the House side of things. OUTFRONT now Republican Will Hurd, he just retired from Congress this
weekend. So Congressman, I appreciate your time. Let me just start off with - we just saw this video of Trump and Pence and they're speaking very animatedly, and Rudy Giuliani had made that comment.
Pence was earlier at a rally in Georgia where he said, I promise you come this Wednesday we'll have our day in Congress. We'll hear the objections. We'll hear the evidence. I mean, his role is purely ceremonial here, do you have any concern over what he may try to do?
WILL HURD, FORMER CIA OFFICER: Well, he may hear objections because I think the senators are going to stand up and object, but his job is to certify the elections. As you say, this is a ceremonial issue. And what's wild to me is that I never thought I would say that some conservative colleagues of mine would be looking to the former super progressive California Senator Barbara Boxer as a example of how to operate on the Senate floor.
[19:25:16]
This has gotten out of control. What upsets me is - I've been in difficult races, right?
BURNETT: Yes.
HURD: Every race I had was difficult. My last election it took 20 days after the election for it to be decided. And the people that are involved in counting the votes, certifying the votes at the state level, Republicans and Democrats take their job very seriously. I think we see how serious the folks in Georgia take this.
And when you criticize them and you talk about fraud, it only hurts the broader system. And I think the only person that is perpetuating fraud is the person that can't get over the fact that he lost. And so this has broader implications rather than just an election tomorrow. It could suppress votes, voters to come out. We have a consequential election.
We need Republicans need to have that check in the Senate against a President-elect Biden. But it also has ramifications in the international arena, because our adversaries are looking at this and using this as an excuse to erode our trust with allies and folks around the world, so this is disappointing all right.
BURNETT: So to this point when I mentioned 13 senators and now 140 House Republicans, Republican Senator Ben Sasse, he's not in that group, he's opposing the effort. He says let the will of the people be heard. He says that in private conversations, he has not had one conversation with a Republican who actually will admit that they believe any of this.
So basically they are all doing it for whatever, I don't know why, let me ask you why, I mean, have you had any conversations where any of them actually say that they believe all of these things that we all know to be blatantly false? And if you haven't then why do you think so many of them are on board with it? HURD: So I haven't spoken to anybody that believes this and thinks
this is the right thing. I can't say I've spoken to a large cross section of people that are going to vote on this and I don't understand that either. Some have said and opine that it's because they're worried about the next election.
Well, almost every single Republican that won in the last election outperformed Donald Trump. Donald Trump was a drag up and down the ballot. We were successful despite of that. Like the fact that we picked up seats in the House, us being Republicans. The fact that Nancy Pelosi has such a small margin, we should be focused on that.
And if you think that there was fraud in the election, having the most diverse freshman class in Republican history, was that a fraud? I don't think it was. And so I can't give any insight into why this is the case. But I think there's a broader issue here about this erosion in trust in many of our institutions.
The fact that something like this can be perpetuated as long as it has. This is a serious issue that that we have to address. And guess what, we got to address it in the media, we got to address it in the government, we got to address it in civil society because this is important in how our democracy operates.
BURNETT: All right. Well, Congressman Hurd, I'm glad to talk to you. I know you're obviously retired from Congress. You've got a lot more ahead and I look forward to speaking with you. Thank you.
HURD: Thank you, Erin. Happy New Year.
BURNETT: All right, you too.
And next, Trump is about to take the stage there in Georgia. As a Republican there now tells us that what's happening in his state is an absolute bleep (ph) show. We're live in Georgia.
And breaking news, the first case of highly contagious strain of coronavirus now discovered in New York.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:32:42]
BURNETT: You're looking at live pictures of President Trump's rally in Dalton, Georgia, where he will be speaking in just over an hour. And the big question, will he use the final hours of the campaign to help the Republican candidates in tight Senate runoff elections and will decide the balance of power? Or will he keep making false claims about the November election that he lost?
Kyung Lah is OUTFRONT.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KYUNG LAH, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): On this final full day of the Georgia Senate runoff campaign, the two Democratic challengers are on the attack, using President Trump against his own party.
JON OSSOFF (D), SENATE CANDIDATE FROM GEORGIA: The president of the United States on the phone trying to intimidate Georgia's election officials to throw out your votes. Let's send a message.
RAPHAEL WARNOCK (D), SENATE CANDIDATE FROM GEORGIA: He is being aided and abetted by two United States senators, Kelly Loeffler and David Perdue.
LAH: On the Republican side, Senator Loeffler dodged direct questions about Trump's recorded phone call while Senator David Perdue turned his fire on the recipient of Trump's phone call, Georgia's Republican secretary of state.
SEN. DAVID PERDUE (R-GA): To have a statewide elected official regardless of party take -- to tape without disclosing a conversation, private conversation with the president of the United States, and then leaking it to the press, now is disgusting.
LAH: Even as Senator Perdue defends a sitting president attempting to undermine an election, there's little sign it matters to the GOP faithful. At least among those who came to see Vice President Mike Pence in Milner, Georgia. They claim they haven't heard anything about this call.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, I haven't.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No, I haven't.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I know there was election fraud. Have a good day.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's whack-a-mole again. It is Groundhog Day again.
LAH: Georgia is split into two worlds, claim versus fact, say exasperated Georgia state election officials. The secretary of state's office displayed this poster-size message at its first press conference since Saturday's controversial phone call.
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: A lot of people aren't going out to vote, and a lot of Republicans are going to vote negative because they hate what you did to the president. Okay? They hate it.
And they're going to vote. You would be respected, really respected if this thing could be straightened out before the election.
[19:35:01]
LAH: Democratic voters who say they all heard the Trump phone call?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I did.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, I've heard it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, I've read about the tapes. Most certainly.
LAH: Admits they don't know if it will change Tuesday's election. UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think it's incredibly disappointing and I hope
it galvanizes people to turn out for the Democratic candidates but I'm not optimistic it will make that much of a difference.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
LAH (on camera): Okay. But the wild card in all of this is what happens tonight, when President Trump steps on the stage, what is he going to say? And the people who are very concerned about this are the Republicans here in the state of Georgia. One source telling CNN if disaster is avoided tonight, Erin, it will be, quote, sheer dumb luck -- Erin.
BURNETT: All right, Kyung, thank you very much. Well, if it's anything like the phone call, right? We know what we're going to hear. A whole lot of things that are not true.
Astead Herndon is "New York Times" national political reporter. He's been on the ground in Georgia for weeks covering these races. He's at the president's rally now.
And Michael Smerconish, host of "SMERCONISH" and, of course, political commentator.
So, Astead, you know, you're there in Dalton. President has said he's going to be talking about election fraud tonight, warning in a tweet, quote, you'll see the real numbers tonight during my speech.
Of course there are no real numbers which show any fraud. You've just heard Congressman Will Hurd say the only person putting out fraud at this point is the person who lost the election, Donald Trump. But the point is what effect does this have, Astead? If he goes out tonight and goes crazy with all the stuff on the call, and, you know, taking down the Republican leadership of Georgia, what's the impact on the voting tomorrow?
ASTEAD HERNDON, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: That's the huge question we have here. I mean, what we know is that President Trump is in northeast Georgia because Republicans need to boost the turnout out here. But this rally is not really about Kelly Loeffler or about David Perdue, it's about President Trump. The voters here are saying over and over that they are looking to President Trump about those voter fraud claims and they think this is an election that was stolen.
Now, they're trying to juice turnout in these northeast portions of the state because Democrats have done so well in their urban areas during early voting. Will the president even focus on the senators or will he focus his attention on his own grievances? I think that's what everyone's looking for.
BURNETT: Well, of course, if past is precedent, it's going to be the latter.
So, Michael, Republicans increasingly worry about what the president may say at the rally, right? He said he's going to have numbers. He's made it clear this is going to be about himself. One Georgia Republican tells CNN, quote, the likelihood of a total complete absolute beep show is off the charts. If disaster is averted, it will be sheer dumb luck.
Michael, elaborate as to what's at stake here.
MICHAEL SMERCONISH, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, I really think there's political malpractice taking place as we speak because the president's, I'll use a nice word, abstinence, in not accepting the election results --
BURNETT: It is a nice word.
SMERCONISH: -- that's denying Georgia Republicans the best argument they have. Think about it, Erin, to rally that base, what do you say? You say that Loeffler and Perdue are the bulwark, the only thing standing in the way of total Democratic leadership, Joe Biden, Nancy Pelosi, Chuck Schumer, throw in the Squad and a couple of references to com communism or socialism.
But because of this whole "emperor has no clothes" dance that argument is not being made. I mean, the president by rights tonight should say, we ran a hell of a race, we came close, we didn't win, but now you've got to return these two to the Senate or all is lost for the next several years. But of course, he'll never say that.
BURNETT: No, no. And instead what he's telling them is it's all corrupt and it's rigged and it's rigged against you so why bother voting? I mean, that's the emphasis here.
So, Astead, on this point, though, early votes, right? You've heard from Kyung's report. You've seen it yourself because I know you've been covering this for a long time. Three million early votes cast already, a record for a runoff in Georgia. It would seem that that's benefiting Democrats so far, black turnout up, turnout down in white rural areas.
So what is the energy you're feeling on the ground right now coming into tomorrow?
HERNDON: You know, it was kind of a prerequisite that Democrats improve on their November showings in many of those urban areas if they were going to have a shot in the runoffs. They did that in early voting. We saw that increased vote shares in those Democratic counties, Fulton, Cobb and the like and we also saw that black vote share increased, young voters increased and they actually found a number of voters who did not vote in the November election who came out for the runoffs. Those are prerequisites for the runoffs.
But we know Republican voters are not trusting the early vote system. And so, Republicans are banking on that in-person turnout to make it up on Tuesday. That is particularly in the regions like Dalton.
[19:40:00]
And that's why President Trump is here. Republicans think that they are in a kind of trouble but they also are
banking on their closer, President Trump, to boost that turnout, especially in these regions.
BURNETT: So, OK, to this point, Michael, that Astead is making, that you were also making about what's at stake here, prominent Georgia conservative talk radio host Erick Erickson, we all know him, he wrote today about President Trump, quote: some Republicans are convinced he'd rather the GOP lose Georgia. Otherwise, it is hard to claim the Democrats could engage in a transcontinental conspiracy to steal the presidency but couldn't use the same voting machines in Georgia to steal the Senate.
And therein is the problem, Michael, that you were hinting at. If he wins and he has to say oh, we just -- we eked it out here and no shredding, it was all good this time, but not last time.
Do you think it's possible that he'd rather lose the whole thing, lose it for the GOP, to back up his own claims?
SMERCONISH: I don't think so. Because if they lose, and I think it will be all or nothing, if they lose he'll be tagged with the loss and he'll be tagged with the loss because of this conflict of saying it's all rigged. Oh, by the way, come out and vote in a rigged election. So I don't buy into that.
BURNETT: All right. Thank you both very much. We'll be talking to you tomorrow. Thanks so much.
And next, breaking news. New York just reporting its first case of the new highly contagious strain of coronavirus, first known case. And there are now concerns that current vaccines may not work against another highly contagious strain.
Plus, what led to this tense exchange between Florida's governor and CNN?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REPORTER: With all due respect, Governor --
GOV. RON DESANTIS (R), GEORGIA: You asked a question, I'm going to answer it.
REPORTER: I'm trying to finish my question.
DESANTIS: You're not -- no.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:45:18]
BURNETT: Breaking news tonight about the two new strains of the coronavirus that everyone's been talking about, both highly contagious. New York announcing its first known case of the U.K. variant. And meantime, the British health secretary warning that the new South African variant is, quote, even more of a problem.
There are growing concerns about whether the current vaccines will work on at least the South African strain.
OUTFRONT now, Dr. William Schaffner, former CDC official and professor of infectious disease at Vanderbilt University.
So, Dr. Schaffner, let me start with the British Prime Minister Boris Johnson now announcing a national lockdown for England, all the way through at least mid February. They've had a 30 percent increase in hospitalizations in one week, from their new variant. And we've now found New York has discovered that it has a case which, of course, means there's many more.
I ask this for a very specific reason. You could have a more transmissible version of this and see a whole lot more death than you would if you actually had a deadlier version which was not more transmissible, right?
The amount of death you could see from this could be horrific. Are you concerned about the impact here in the U.S. at this point?
DR. WILLIAM SCHAFFNER, PROFESSOR, INFECTIOUS DISEASES DIVISION, VANDERBILT UNIVERSITY MEDICAL CENTER: Oh, of course. We're always concerned, Erin. And you're exactly right.
Now, let's make it clear for our viewers, this is a more contagious strain but it's not more apt to make you seriously ill. However, it's so contagious that it could spread to so many people and find older people, people with diabetes and heart disease, that it's likely to make many of them so sick that they have to go to the hospital. And, of course, the risk of dying goes up, simply because it's spread so readily.
So, yes, it's a strain that we have to be careful about. But remember, masks work, even against this strain. Social distancing, avoiding groups, staying at home, and hygiene -- all those good things work against even this more contagious strain, and all the more reason for all of us to do that.
BURNETT: Right. And okay. So you could still have a lot more death from a more transmissible version as opposed to the old transmissible version that was deadlier. But all of this would be predicated on, you're going of it a vaccine coming soon. That's what everyone says, we've got a vaccine coming soon.
But now, we don't know, Doctor, whether the current vaccines will work against any of these new variants. But there have been some now real concerns raised specifically about the South African variant, that it has substantial changes from the original and that at least in South Africa, they have raised serious questions as to whether the vaccines will work against it. And I should note that it, of course, is highly transmissible like the U.K. version.
Do you have concerns about this?
SCHAFFNER: Well, Erin, they're concerned so obviously I'm concerned too. We don't want that strain to start running around the world and causing more damage. We're interested in what the virologists will tell you over the next three to four weeks, tell all of us, about exactly how much of a match there is between this new strain in South Africa and our vaccines.
If there's not a match or there's sufficient deviation, then the manufacturers will have to go back to work and create yet another vaccine, hopefully one that will cover both strains.
BURNETT: Yeah. Of course it does raise a lot of concerns, you know, around the world as people have been saying well, okay, now there's a vaccine in sight. This has the potential to dramatically change the way people see this. When it comes to the vaccine, doctor, right now according to the CDC only 4.5 million Americans have received their first dose. That is literally a needle in the haystack. But they've repeatedly vowed that there's going to be more than that, we were going to have 20 million by the end of December, right?
So we're at 4.5 million. How can we increase the pace of vaccinations?
SCHAFFNER: Well, those were aspirational goals and they were much too high when they were made. Now that we're in the New Year, we started slow, we started carefully. And now we're expanding.
We need to have more vaccine come through the pipeline. And then the local and state health departments need resources so they can really open up the vaccination program. We ought to be vaccinating Saturdays, Sundays, down to 8:00 or 9:00 at night, starting at 5:00 in the morning. So, there's simply more opportunities. But they need the resources to do that. Human beings push the plungers on those syringes. They need salaries.
[19:50:02]
BURNETT: Yes, and, of course, that has not been part of what we've gotten yet out of Washington. Thank you so much, Doctor.
SCHAFFNER: Thank you.
BURNETT: And next, Donald Trump and Ted Cruz, you remember, they hated each other with a virulence. But now Cruz is leading, the standard bearer for Trump's charge to overturn the election. What happened?
And the question that sparked this back and forth between CNN and Florida Governor DeSantis.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DESANTIS: Why was -- like in Lee? Why did that happen? Did you investigate why?
REPORTER: That's my question to you, Governor. You're the governor of the state. I'm not the governor of the state. (END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BURNETT: Tonight, President Trump is lashing out on Republican leaders who aren't joining his effort to overturn Joe Biden's victory, calling them the, quote, surrender caucus.
Meantime, Trump is praising Senator Ted Cruz for leading the charge, four years, of course, after Cruz was, one of, you know, his rivals and then the biggest critics and the 2016 campaign.
Tom Foreman is OUTFRONT.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SEN. TED CRUZ (R-TX): We've seen in the last two months, unprecedented allegations of voter fraud.
TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): On the front lines of the president's failing battle to overturn the election, Ted Cruz is blasting away at the courts, the Democrats, anyone who says Donald Trump lost fair and square.
[19:55:04]
CRUZ: I am angry, and I think the American people are angry.
FOREMAN: It is a remarkable flip-flop for a senator whom Trump used to relentlessly ridicule.
TRUMP: Lyin' Ted. L-Y-I-N-hyphen.
Lyin' Ted Cruz. Lyin' Ted. Lyin'.
FOREMAN: Trump has in the past claimed falsely Cruz's father was tied to the Kennedy assassination. Cruz stole an early primary win. But Cruz, born in Canada, could not legally occupy the Oval Office. Trump even insulted Cruz's wife at the time.
Cruz hit back hard.
CRUZ: Donald, you're a sniveling coward, and leave Heidi the hell alone.
FOREMAN: He hinted that a Trump's ties to organize crimes, called Trump classless, a pathological liar.
CRUZ: The idea of our daughters coming home and repeating any words that man says horrifies me.
FOREMAN: But that Ted Cruz is nowhere to be seen these days, he helped Trump fights impeachment, he routinely praises Trump's policies. And amid the storm of myth-making about Trump's catastrophic election loss -- CRUZ: President Trump called me and said, Ted, would you do the
argument in this case if the court takes it? I told the president absolutely, I'd be happy to do it.
FOREMAN: Why? Political analysts think maybe it's because after embracing Trump, Cruz saw his name floated as a potential attorney general, Supreme Court justice, or perhaps even the party's candidate for president down the line.
(END VIDEOITAPE)
FOREMAN (on camera): Cruz is cagey about all that, saying he just wants to clear up any disputes of the election. He says as a Republican, it is his responsibility to tend to the president, to do what needs to be done here. But, of course, that is what he's saying now -- Erin.
BURNETT: All right, Tom, thank you very much.
And also tonight, the Florida Governor Ron DeSantis defending the coronavirus vaccines rollout in his state. And he had just a heated exchange with our Rosa Flores. Let me play it for you.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ROSA FLORES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Governor, what has gone wrong -- Governor, what has gone wrong with the rollout of the vaccine that we've seen phone lines jammed, web sites crashing and --
(CROSSTALK)
DESANTIS: A lot of demand. I mean, I think at the end of the day --
(CROSSTALK)
FLORES: If I could --
DESANTIS: Excuse me, excuse me, you just said what has gone wrong. So, I'm answering the question.
FLORES: If I could complete the question though.
DESANTIS: So, are you going to give a speech or you're going to answer -- ask a question?
FLORES: With all due respect, Governor, I'm trying to --
DESANTIS: You asked a question. I'm going to answer it.
FLORES: I'm trying to finish my question.
DESANTIS: No, you are giving a speech, you asked a question.
FLORES: I am trying to ask you --
DESANTIS: You are going to ask how many questions? You get three? They only got one question. Why do you get three?
FLORES: With all due respect, Governor, I'm just asking if I could finish my question?
DESANTIS: You didn't. You finished the question.
FLORES: I did not. My full question is, what went wrong with the rollout of the vaccine when we've seen phone lines jammed, web sites crashed and --
DESANTIS: So you're repeating your question.
FLORES: To complete it for you, Governor. We've seen websites crashed and also seniors waiting overnight for the vaccine.
DESANTIS: Where was that at?
FLORES: We've seen it in Duval, Broward, Orange and Lee Counties.
DESANTIS: Why was -- like in Lee? Why did that happen? Did you investigate why?
FLORES: That's my question to you, Governor. You are the governor of the state. I'm not the governor of the state.
DESANTIS: OK. But you didn't investigate why, that how -- like in Lee County. And why was there a big line? Did you investigate why?
FLORES: Could you tell us why?
DESANTIS: Because we distributed the vaccines to the hospitals, and the hospital said, first come, first served, if you show up, we'll do it. So, you didn't use a registration system. There wasn't anything that was done, and there's a lot of demand for it. So, people are going to want to go ahead and get it.
(CROSSTALK)
FLORES: So, are you saying there was no plan then from the state to make sure that senior citizens didn't wait outside overnight?
DESANTIS: So, the state is not dictating the hospitals how -- we're not dictating to Carlos Migoya how he runs his operations here. That would be a total disaster. These guys are much more competent to be able to deliver health care services than a state government could ever be.
So, we are empowering the hospitals, 80 percent of the initial doses of the first three weeks. You see places like Jackson really take the bull by the horns. And, yeah, you know, when there's an issue like that, I think the hospital made a course correction, they decided to do it a little bit differently.
So, but here's the thing. If you're 74 years old in the state of Florida, we made a decision that we want you to get vaccinated.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: And Rosa Flores is now OUTFRONT.
Rosa, obviously, you know, these lines that you talk about people camping out over night and the governor is trying to imply that well it is all going to correct. What is the reality on the ground?
FLORES: You know, reality is those pictures that we show you, our cameras were rolling. There were senior citizens waiting over night to get vaccinated. This included the parents of Dr. Sanjay Gupta. They were there and they'll tell you that that is the reality in the state.
Now, Governor Ron DeSantis can try to wash his hands from responsibility but here's the thing, he sent the vaccine to counties and counties in the state of Florida are run by the Florida's department of state. They are run by the states.
So, for example, this weekend when the website crashed in Broward County, Erin, that was the Florida department of health, directing seniors in their 70s and 80s to go to the website to get an appointment and a vaccine and the website kept crashing. That is the reality -- Erin.
BURNETT: All right, Rosa. Thank you very much. A powerful picture and important reporting.
Thanks to you all for watching us as well.
Anderson starts now.
