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Erin Burnett Outfront

Biden Meets With GOP Senators In First Major "Unity" Test; CNN: Trump May Add More Attorneys Before Impeachment Trial; Republican Leader McCarthy Could Meet With Congresswoman Marjorie Taylor Greene As Soon As Tomorrow; Vaccinations Slowly Picking Up Speed As Variants Spread; Twenty-Six Million Americans Have Received At Least One Dose; White House: Biden Hopes To Sign New Executive Actions On Immigration Tomorrow; Thousands Detained In Russia Amid Fiercest Crackdown In Years. Aired 7-8p ET

Aired February 01, 2021 - 19:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST: Michael would often sing love songs in public as Sylvia lovingly teased him. Sylvia's daughter says they were an amazing couple with a beautiful long love story. They died just three days apart. May they rest in peace and may their memories be a blessing.

"ERIN BURNETT OUTFRONT" next right now.

ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST: OUTFRONT next, Trump faces a deadline on impeachment as CNN learns he may add more attorneys with one advisor telling CNN, "He just wants the world to know the election was stolen from him."

And more breaking news, President Biden's first major test, a meeting with Republicans who want to cut his COVID relief bill by two-thirds. And the meeting is going on and on though. We're going to talk to someone who just came out of the meeting.

Plus, House Republican Leader Kevin McCarthy could meet with Congresswoman Marjorie Taylor Greene as soon as tomorrow as Democrats issue and ultimatum. Let's go OUTFRONT.

And good evening. I'm Erin Burnett.

OUTFRONT tonight breaking news, on several fronts this hour that the White House President Biden meeting with Republican senators on stimulus. A meeting that has lasted longer than anyone expected. It is a major test for Biden's promise to work across the aisle.

Now, we are expecting senators to speak to reporters after that meeting and we are going to bring that to you as soon as it happens. There at that microphone outside the White House.

And on Capitol Hill, major deadlines looming in the impeachment trial of former President Donald Trump. Democrats filing deadline to make their case is just hours away and then Trump must give his formal response to the article of impeachment tomorrow by lunchtime. This as our Jim Acosta reports that Trump may be about to add new lawyers to his defense team. If he does, they'll join Trump's brand-new legal team as of last

night, two attorneys known for some high profile controversial cases: David Schoen and Bruce Castor. Here's how Schoen described himself to The Atlanta Jewish Times, I quote him, "I represent all sorts of reputed mobster figures: alleged head of Russian mafia in this country, Israeli mafia and two Italian bosses, as well as a guy the government claimed was the biggest mafioso in the world."

As Castor, he is a former district attorney who declined to prosecute Bill Cosby for a sex crime in 2005. Cosby, of course, was eventually convicted of sexually assaulting and drugging that same woman. The reason for Trump's new legal team is that every single one of the five lawyers who were known to be representing him quit this weekend in mass, because they wanted to argue that it's unconstitutional to convict a former president of impeachment.

Trump wanted them to argue that the election was stolen from him instead. Yes, that was what Trump insisted on. Yes, this is the case. Trump still stands by and wants to spread the big lie that he won by a landslide in the election.

Now, it's unclear whether his new team of those two gentlemen I just told you about agree with his strategy. But here are the facts, of course, more than 60 courts have dismissed the claims of fraud out of hand. The election was free, fair and an overwhelming Electoral College and popular vote win for Biden.

So why is Trump now trying so hard to make those claims the focal point of the Senate trial charging him with inciting an insurrection? Does he think that the lie would justify a mob of his supporters trampling a dying woman? Does he think that the lie justifies police officers being beaten by a hockey stick and a crutch like we saw in the video on January 6th?

Or does he think that the lie justifies the death of Officer Brian Sicknick who was working at the Capitol on the day of the riot and died after being hit in the head with a fire extinguisher? Or does he think it justifies the two police officers who responded to the violent interaction and have since taken their own lives?

The people who died that day did not have to die. But they were all there, brought together that day because Trump lied about the election. And then he lied, and lied, and lied, and inspiring and justifying the attackers' choice to be there that day. Has Trump watched the video of one of his supporters who was charged today by federal prosecutors?

I wonder in all the media he consumes if he's seen this. This video is, what they say, was one of the first people to breached the barricades outside the complex. The man is accused of attacking the police line, causing at least one officer to suffer a concussion.

There's one thing that every single person knows is true about the attack and that is this, the rioters, some of them looking for blood, were in Washington that day for one reason and that is that they listened to Trump's lie. Some of them sent him money in response to the more than 600 fundraising emails and more than 220 text messages that he sent between election night and January 6th talking about his landslide win, and the rigged, and the fraud and all that business.

And we all heard him. We all heard him and we all heard them repeat him. I want to warn you some of the language you're about to hear here is offensive.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Stop the steal.

CROWD: Stop the steal. Stop the steal. Stop the steal. Stop the steal.

TRUMP: We'll lose everything.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Man, we're going to fucking lose it all.

TRUMP: That's treason. That's treason.

[19:05:00]

CROWD: Treason. Treason. Treason. Treason. Treason.

TRUMP: We got to get Nancy Pelosi the hell out of there and we're very close.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Can I speak to Pelosi? Yes, we're coming, bitch.

TRUMP: And Mike Pence, I will tell you right now, I'm not hearing good stories.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Because Mike Pence is a fucking traitor.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BURNETT: And Trump wants his lawyers to continue spreading that stuff. Manu Raju is OUTFRONT on Capitol Hill. And Manu, I know you're learning some new information about the case that Democrats will make against President Trump.

MANU RAJU, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes. And we're going to start to see that tomorrow when the briefs start to come out, making the case why the Democrats believe Donald Trump should be convicted in the Senate impeachment trial and why he should be never be allowed to run for office ever again. The Democrats plan to lay out a case ...

BURNETT: So Manu, I'm just going to interrupt you for one second here just to listen to Sen. Susan Collins just coming out of that meeting. We'll go back to Manu in a moment.

SEN. SUSAN COLLINS (R-ME): ... and some of their key aides to discuss the next steps on the COVID relief package. We outlined for the President the provisions that we have proposed as part of an approximately $600 billion package. He explained in more depth areas that were not fleshed out as much in the package, the $1.9 trillion dollar package and it was some very good exchange of views.

I wouldn't say that we came together on a package tonight. No one expected that in a two-hour meeting. But what we did agreed to do is to follow up and talk further at the staff level and amongst ourselves and with the President and Vice President on how we can continue to work together on this very important issue.

All of us are concerned about struggling families, teetering small businesses and overwhelmed health care system, getting vaccines out and into people's arms, and strengthening our economy and addressing the public health crisis that we face. So I think it was an excellent meeting and we're very appreciative that as his first official meeting in the Oval Office, the President chose to spend so much time with us in a frank and very useful discussion.

Finally, let me just say that we have demonstrated in the last year that we can come together on a bipartisan package dealing with the COVID crisis. In fact, we've done that not just once or twice, we've done it five times. And I am hopeful that we can once again pass a sixth bipartisan COVID relief package. And I don't know if my colleagues want to say anything further. Thank you.

BURNETT: All right. You just saw the Republicans there in that meeting. You saw Susan Collins speaking. She was the one who actually called the meeting. Obviously, the takeaway from that much longer than expected meeting, but I wouldn't say we came together. Obviously, they still want to work together but that appeared to be the operative headline from Sen. Collins.

Manu is still with me and also Phil Mattingly. Let me just ask you, Phil, obviously, this meeting went longer than anyone had anticipated but it doesn't appear there was a breakthrough.

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, which I think, look, underscores the reality of where the two sides were going into the meeting. But to your point, this meeting was roughly about an hour longer than anybody expected. It was going to be going into that meeting. Now, what does that actually mean? We're going to have to wait and find out.

But one thing I think is important that you heard from Sen. Collins right there and that is that they're going to keep talking and they're going to have more staff level discussions. We were at the point, Erin, based on both White House advisors and congressional officials I was talking to over the course of the last 24 or 48 hours, that there was about to be fish or cut bait type of moment.

And the fact that they're going to continue to talk means while they obviously didn't reach anywhere close to a deal, there's no firm agreement and there's still a huge, huge lift to try and bridge those two proposals, the conversations are still ongoing. Which is a notable thing considering, as Manu knows quite well, Democrats are getting ready to kick their process into gear this week.

BURNETT: Right. And obviously, they're still pretty far apart though. I mean, Republicans were willing to do a package about a third the size of what Biden wanted. That's still the way we are tonight, right, Phil?

MATTINGLY: Look, there's been no change in terms of what the White House position is and obviously what Republicans came into. And Erin, I think this is important to note. Obviously, discussions occurring are a good thing when you're looking at whether or not a deal is possible. It's better than no talks whatsoever.

BURNETT: Yes.

[19:10:00]

MATTINGLY: But how far apart these two sides were, it's not a minor thing to come more than two-thirds of the way there on the top line. And then you talk about what's actually inside the proposals and I think this is where things get more difficult.

The Biden team having $350 billion for state and local aid. Republican proposal has zero for state and local aid. The unemployment insurance benefit $400 from the Biden Team, $300 for Republicans and they end it three months earlier than the White House does as well. You can go in and out of every single part of these top lines and there are significant divergences on policy that would have to be married up over the course of the next several days to make any kind of progress.

And I think so long as the White House makes clear repeatedly as they have from the President on down that they want to 'act big, go big, bigger is better than smaller'.

BURNETT: Yes.

MATTINGLY: They're in a very different place than where are those 10 Republican senators were tonight.

BURNETT: All right. Yes. All right. Well, Phil Mattingly, thank you very much.

And Manu is with me here as well. Manu, in terms of where we are on this, how close are we to when we start to see maybe movement here among any Republican senators in terms of amounts or anything?

RAJU: Well, I think what you're going to see as this negotiation between the two sides continue to talk, they'll have some discussions between the Republican senators and the White House. But the Democrats are going to continue to move forward on their own plans to fast track legislation that could be passed on their own this month, try to get something through the House sometime later this month, the Senate, either the first week of March.

Because unless there's significant movement particularly on the Republican side to go closer to what Joe Biden is asking for, $1.9 trillion, Democrats will move on their own because they believe that's where the support lies. They have a narrow majority in the House. There's a 50-50 Senate. If they keep their party united, they can get it through and they are confident they can that they keep that price tag close to 1.9 trillion. BURNETT: And of course, it all comes in the context of all this maybe

bipartisanship when you're talking about an impeachment trial in the Senate for the former president and that is all these deadlines as we were talking about are tomorrow.

So I know Democrats have to lay out their formal case. The President has to reply the kind of not guilty equivalent of the Senate trial. So where are we and also something significant, I believe, you're just learning here about a step McConnell's taken to yet again sort of tip his hand here and this pretending to Liz Cheney.

RAJU: Yes. And he has said privately to his associates that he believes Donald Trump committed impeachable offenses. This is the Senate Minority Leader, Mitch McConnell. Now, he also voted last week with Republicans to essentially throw out the proceedings, but nevertheless, he in a new statement that we have obtained is offering support to one of the 10 Republicans who voted to impeach Donald Trump.

Liz Cheney who's the third ranking Republican and House GOP leadership has come under fire bite from Trump defenders who were trying to oust him from that leadership position. But in this statement tonight, Mitch McConnell says that Cheney acted upon her convictions and she's someone who should be trusted and he said he supports her.

Now, that is even further than the House Republican Leader Kevin McCarthy has gone. McCarthy has offered his support for Liz Cheney, but he has also said he has concerns and Liz Cheney has to answer to those concerns in her conference during a meeting on Wednesday. But here a significant statement from the Senate Republican Leader amid this divisive inter party debate about how to move on from Donald Trump, Erin.

BURNETT: All right. Thank you very much, Manu. And I want to go down to Matthew Dowd, Chief Strategist for the Bush-Cheney '04 presidential campaign. And Ben Ginsberg, longtime Republican Election Lawyer who served as National Counsel to the Bush-Cheney campaigns in 2000 and 2004. And I know you both know each other well.

Matthew, let me start with you, though, President is trying to get some more lawyers onboard and the whole question here is on the defense, that he wants them to actually go out and say that he won by a landslide and all of this is fraud, as opposed to trying to just make it a constitutionality point on whether you can impeach a former president.

And yet in this context, I think what Manu just reported, what do you make of it with the Minority Leader Mitch McConnell making it clear that he supports Liz Cheney and doing it now?

MATTHEW DOWD, CHIEF STRATEGIST FOR THE BUSH-CHENEY 2004 PRESIDENTIAL CAMPAIGN: Well, I think it's a mistake of the President, but the President has often been above his own counsel. I mean, as you know, Erin, if you put these lawyers in a courtroom, they couldn't make the argument because making the argument would be lying to the court, so they couldn't do that. I think it's wholly about the President's not being able to give up on

the idea that he lost. It's a personal thing. He's never been able to admit that he's lost. He always conveys himself as a great winner. It's the same reason why Barry Bonds has never admitted performance- enhancing drugs.

He can't admit that he got the homerun championship without them. Donald Trump can't admit losing. He's going to put his lawyers in the position of having to lie to the United States Senate in trying to make an argument, which is why he lost his lawyers. It's his own personal inability to say that he lost.

BURNETT: And Ben on this front, the senators, obviously, there were a lot of senators who were Republicans who have made it clear that they think what Trump did is impeachable, that they think it's terrible and wrong.

[19:15:09]

And yet, they've said, but it's not constitutional to do it now. They've given Trump's team that out if they want it. He has the votes to prevail, if he makes it on that narrow argument. But yet do you find it incredible that he is still trying to push them to say that it was stolen from him?

BEN GINSBERG, REPUBLICAN ELECTION LAWYER: Yes. It would be a real mistake. He's got what would appear to be an obvious win or an exoneration as he would call it unjust to constitutional argument. But I think he's very aware in hearing about the way the Democrats are going to present their case with vivid video interspersed with his words, that the notion that he perpetrated the big lie is going to be part of this.

And I think he never got his form on January 6th in the Electoral College vote to be able to make his case and it's eating at him. So he's about to make a terrible mistake for himself, if he goes down the road of trying to argue election fraud.

BURNETT: And Matthew, Republican Senator John Cornyn told CNN it would be, his word, disservice for Trump's legal team to make the focus here on election fraud itself. So here's the big test then, Matthew, if they do that, if they use that fraud defense in any way, will any of those 45 Republicans who have said look, if you give us the constitutional out, we'll take it. Will any of them turn and vote to convict?

DOWD: Well, I mean, that's the question. So there's two parts of that, Erin. So the first part is I don't think any of those 45 will change their vote no matter what argument Donald Trump falls into, that his lawyers make bad mistakes or whatever. They're already set in stone on that and I think the question - I mean, I think most everybody knows he's not likely to get convicted, but I don't think that's the point of this.

And if I were the Democrats, I would keep pursuing this even if I knew we weren't going to get a conviction in the Senate. Because here's why, you can't get to reconciliation, which is what the Republicans keeps wanting to push this idea of unity in the country, don't do the impeachment, it's going to divide the country. There's lessons around the world that you have to have truth before you get to reconciliation.

But there's a bigger lesson in our country, which is reconstruction and we're starting at the beginning of Black History Month, the African American History Month. Because we didn't handle and do accountability and truth and because Abraham Lincoln was shot, we took a hundred years before the vision of Abraham Lincoln was fulfilled ultimately in '65 in the Voting Rights Act and in Civil Rights bill.

You can draw a straight line by not providing accountability from reconstruction through the thousands of lynchings that occurred through the death of Emmett Till, through the death of Jimmie Lee Jackson, through the death of Medgar Evers, through the death of those four young girls at the 16th Street Baptist Church, through the death of Martin Luther King.

When you don't confront a problem and this was an armed insurrection pushed by the President of the United States, we have a history that shows this is not going to be solved unless we get to the truth. And if I were the Democrats, I would wholly be concerned not about the punishment of Donald Trump, but about what's the truth and what actually happened?

BURNETT: Well, certainly Ben, the President is showing by his actions now, his desire to fight on the fraud itself that that point of view isn't going to go away and him pushing it isn't going away, the people's belief in isn't going away by the very way he's handling this.

Ben, in that context, what do you make of Sen. McConnell who says stood up directly and said that the President and people in power are responsible for the riot, said it publicly, right? Then voted to dismiss the whole proceedings on the constitutionality argument, but now tonight is making it very clear in a statement that he supports Liz Cheney and her vote to impeach.

GINSBERG: Yes. I think what he's saying is that he's reserving the right and sending a signal to his members to be able to vote to convict if the evidence is overwhelming from the Democrats. And as well if Donald Trump goes down the fraud line of the case. I mean, remember that when the seven Republicans objected to the results of the state, they did it on procedural grounds, they did not do it on voter fraud grounds or that the election was fraudulent, so that there is not support in the Republican conference for the notion that there was voter fraud for no other reason than the senators were elected under that system themselves.

They don't want to say that their own elections were invalid. So if Trump does go down the road of arguing that there was voter fraud, he does risk Republican senators following the setup that Mitch McConnell's delivered tonight.

BURNETT: Yes. All right. Thank you both very much. I appreciate it. Ben, Matthew, thank you.

And next, a race against time as cases of COVID mutations in the United States multiply.

[19:20:02]

Our next guest has a very sobering view on what's going to happen and the role of vaccines.

And Republican leader Kevin McCarthy promises to meet with QAnon sympathizer, Marjorie Taylor Greene. So far though no meeting as Democrats are now issuing an ultimatum.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:23:47]

BURNETT: Breaking news, President Joe Biden just wrapping up that meeting with Republican senators on coronavirus relief. It comes as the CDC Director tonight warns the United States is not doing enough to identify those highly contagious strains of coronavirus. OUTFRONT now Professor William Haseltine, groundbreaking HIV and AIDS researcher, also author of the new eBook Variants, the Shape Shifting Challenge of COVID-19.

And that is what this comes down to right now, Professor Haseltine. These variants that they are coming up in multiple places, that they are mutating in different ways, that they are more transmissible and that some of them are certainly also more deadly. How far could these variants set us back?

DR. WILLIAM HASELTINE, GROUNDBREAKING HIV/AIDS RESEARCHER: These variants could set us back a good deal. I think if we look in the immediate future, we're going to have relatively good news that the rates of infection are declining. We have to look forward to what's going to happen in the fall.

And at that time, the variants, there are three from abroad and at least two serious variants here home grown in the United States, those can evade at least partially our vaccines and those people who are already been infected will not be protected from some of these variants. We can look forward to a recurrence.

[19:25:04]

Whether it's a category five hurricane that is predicted by Dr. Osterholm (ph) or whether it's a category two or three, it looks like it will be serious come fall.

BURNETT: Well, and that's a lot of death in either case. So let me ask you about something we saw in The Wall Street Journal, they were going through a sobering timeline from the Education Minister of Singapore. And that Minister says, "It may take four to five years before we finally see the end of the pandemic and the start of a post-COVID normal."

You said this is going to be a decade's long battle, much worse than what we see every year with the flu. Explain.

HASELTINE: Well, if you look at the coronavirus, it looks like this is behaving just like those. They come back every year and they come back pretty much in the same form. The only difference is they give you a cold and this kills about one out of 200 people that it infects. The flu virus comes back every year. It's about one-tenth as lethal as this. Even so, 20,000 to 60,000 Americans die every year multiply by 10 and we have a serious problem.

I think that the vaccines that are being developed now will have a blunting effect on that. They won't make it go away any more than the flu vaccines make flu go away, given their short duration and virus variation. So we've got to prepare ourselves for a long battle.

That means obeying public health advice. It means staying home when requested to and it means doing everything you can to avoid you and your family getting infected. And it means the government doing everything it can with its great resources to prepare us with new drugs, new tests and new vaccines.

BURNETT: And your view on this is that people are hopeful and I mean even Dr. Fauci has said maybe there'll be spectators. He didn't say how many. But spectators in the stands this summer, but do you think that's then when we're going to start to see things shift again. I mean, what you're saying this is a very long time before any of us would be in a world that anybody would define as normal.

HASELTINE: Well, we live with flu but it's not killing as many of us. I think what many of us are afraid of is we've seen two periods of hope followed by this terrible disaster of the winter disaster. We've seen what happens if we don't eradicate this virus. Four countries in the world have eradicated this virus and they're in a much better position than we are. We can do it.

We have to muster the popular will to do it. It can't be done only by leadership. It has to be done by each and every citizen. We have to muster the will to do what's needed that four other countries have already done to eradicate this, so it doesn't come back and damage our economies and damage our lives.

BURNETT: All right. Professor, thank you very much. I appreciate your time.

HASELTINE: You're welcome. Thank you.

BURNETT: And next, to the cult of Trump up to 70 former officials from the George W. Bush administration reportedly quitting the party. One of those officials saying the party has become a cult of Trump.

And a top White House official on the meeting between President Biden and Republicans tonight and that Kamala Harris interview that may have backfired.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're going to try to find a bipartisan pathway forward, I think we need to, but we need to work together. That's not a way of working together.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:32:16]

BURNETT: Breaking news. House leader, Republican leader, Kevin McCarthy, could meet with controversial Republican Congresswoman Marjorie Taylor Greene as soon as tomorrow evening. This is according to sources talking to CNN tonight.

It comes as house Democrats give McCarthy an ultimatum. Remove Greene from her committee assignments or they will bring the manner to a vote. This is after Greene has indicated support for hanging a former president, executing Democrats, along with buying into other dangerous and in some cases, frankly, completely crazy conspiracy theories.

OUTFRONT now, former Republican congressman and governor of South Carolina, Mark Sanford.

And, Governor, I appreciate your time.

You know, some of those conspiracy theories for anyone that doesn't know include having supported the idea that lasers from space may have caused wildfires in California and that a plane did not fly in the Pentagon on 9/11, just so people understand.

Do you think a Leader McCarthy should remove Congresswoman Greene from her committees before Democrats step in and try to do it themselves?

MARK SANFORD (R), FORMER CONGRESSMAN FROM SOUTH CAROLINA: Well, I think there's both, you know, policy and politics question to what you're asking. On the policy side, yes, I think that he should step in. There are certain bridges ought to be too far in the world of politics, and we've got to tone down the crazy in Washington, D.C. And ultimately for the Republican Party to heal itself, become a viable alternative to -- in terms of national debate that needs to take place in Washington, D.C., it's got to cleanse from within.

And so, this would be a first step measure that makes sense. That's the policy question.

But the politics question is different. And, you know, I don't know the ages of your children, but I know with my four boys, when I back them into a wall, say this is what you're going to do or else, it never works out that quite well for me. And so, I think in this case, the Democrats are overplaying a hand by pushing McCarthy like this, I suspect they're going to get not the reaction they're looking for.

BURNETT: So, you know, it's an interesting point, whether it has to come from within.

I want to ask you, Governor, actually about the Republican Party on the issue of impeachment, right? Because in your state of South Carolina, your Republican Party voted to formally censure Tom Rice, right? He is the congressman who voted to impeach Trump for inciting the riot for the capitol, right? Then the party in your state has come out, formally censured him for doing so.

Now you understand this better than anyone, right? You ran a primary campaign against President Trump last election on a lot of traditional values, you know, like fiscal responsibility. You saw his power in the party. And he's got the power, even though he lost the White House and he lost the Senate, he is the guy that has the power.

Do you agree with all of the former GWB folks calling the party of cult right now?

[19:35:05]

SANFORD: Yeah, I mean, it's certainly different than whatever it was I thought was investing in the last 25 years of my life. And it is a cult of personality. There is no getting around that.

I mean, the operative question in my primary that I lost back in two years ago was, are you or for against Trump? And I would go on this, well, I'm against him based on these issues here local, that are important to people here locally, or I'm against him based on this theme of conservatism.

None of it mattered. What mattered was, are you for or against Trump? And that's not anything that I've ever heard before. And interestingly, in talking to likes of a Flake or a Corker, same kind of conversations taking place in their states at the time that they looked at running versus not running again.

So, yeah, there's something very weird in the waters right now. I think it's incredibly dangerous but it is what it is. Yes, there's a culture of personality that exists. It's pretty pervasive right now.

BURNETT: What do you think Mitch McConnell is trying to accomplish? Right? He stood up, right, as we've all heard, right, and he said Trump caused a riot and other voices of power.

And now, tonight, he's come out and said that Liz Cheney -- he supports Liz Cheney, making it very clear right, that she's under assault by other Republicans, you know, for her vote to impeach Trump as the third motion powerful Republican in the House.

What do you think Mitch McConnell is trying to do?

SANFORD: I mean, I think he's an institutionalist. I mean, I think he believes the traditions of the Senate, and the prerogatives of individual members. And so, in the instance, for instance, going back to the Tom Rice story what you were telling a moment ago --

BURNETT: Yeah.

SANFORD: -- here's a guy took a lonely vote, one of ten across the country, one of one in South Carolina, and you got the state party coming out and censuring you. This is a vote of conscience that you could be on either side of the debate. But if you take a vote of conscience as a member, you don't work for the South Carolina Republican Party. You work for the 700,000 folks back home that elected you.

And yet, we had things sort of upside down in this world of -- this cult of personality, as you put it, that we're living in now. And so, I think what Mitch is doing is saying wait a minute, the prerogatives of Liz Cheney ought to be the prerogatives of Liz Cheney as she represents people in Wyoming and let's not have as much meddling as we have going on. It would seem to be conflicting signals, but I think his view as institutionalist is fairly consistent.

BURNETT: All right. Well, Governor Sanford, I appreciate your time. I always appreciate talking to you, your perspective.

SANFORD: Yes, ma'am. Thank you.

BURNETT: And I want to bring in John Avlon now, our senior political analyst.

John, it's interesting when you hear Governor Sanford, you know, you talk about the party, it is a deep problem from within, right? And then you see, you know, 50 people who worked for George W. Bush saying we're out, reportedly, because this has become a cult of personality. And it is incredible that the cult seems to be getting stronger in some ways, and I emphasize some, but in some ways even with a person who lost and lost the Senate.

JOHN AVLON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Yeah. Yeah. And that's because of fear. That's because there's enough Republicans afraid of partisan primary that they're willing to overlook their conscience, the evidence, the facts for fear of a mean tweet, fear of being on the bad side of a partisan primary which Mark Sanford himself suffered in his South Carolina 1 congressional race.

And these are the stakes, but you've got to ask yourself, what really matters here. Do facts matter? Do conscience matter? Does principle matter? And the evidence for all of the people knuckling under says no.

But, you know, George Will said the four most important words in politics are up to a point. And this is definitely time to decide what's too much. And even any questions about moral equivalent of Liz Cheney and Marjorie Taylor Greene and the like are nonsense. There's no moral equivalence between conspiracy theories and hate and lies and the authoritarian streak of the party, and people who are trying to be principled conservatives and vote their conscience. There's no more equivalence.

BURNETT: No, I mean, it is pretty stunning.

Do you think McConnell is trying to signal anything else? I mean, obviously, we know how he voted, right, when it came to the constitutionality of the argument, right? He voted, you know, in Trump's side on that, that was as clear telegraphing as it is going to get. But do you get the feeling depending if Trump pushes this, not going

the constitutional route, I want to go it was stolen from me route, that he could put it up for debate again among Republican senators?

AVLON: Absolutely. And here's why. First of all, I mean, you know, Trump's lawyers who signed up when other folks rejected it bailed on him last time because he was going to go that route. Second of all, McConnell made his real feelings clear in multiple feelings on the House floor, saying -- calling out essentially Donald Trump for a big lie that led to an attack on the U.S. Capitol. And here's where McConnell being institutionalist really matters.

[19:40:01]

It's not about seeking advantage or being a parliamentarian. It's about actually, oh, you attacked my house, that's going to matter.

And finally, that 45 votes has been overstated a bit, because it was in language of debating the constitutionality, not saying the vote itself would be unconstitutional. The trial itself would be unconstitutional. So, McConnell is making his views very clear.

BURNETT: So, what happens to Marjorie Taylor Greene, right? He's got his meeting maybe tomorrow, he's put it off, put it off, and put it off, of course, he doesn't want to have it, but he's got to have it.

And now, it's sort of -- the Democrats putting the ultimatum, which Governor Sanford is right, nobody wants to be told what to do. So, how does it play out?

AVLON: Well, look, I think it's ultimately a question of whether McCarthy grows a spine, because there are, again, there is no moral equivalence, between Liz Cheneys and the Adam Kinzingers of the Republican Party, and the Marjorie Taylor Greenes.

BURNETT: No.

AVLON: I mean, somebody who has been a denialist, or called a high school shooting a false flag operation being on the education committee, when we see Democrats get bounced and resigned under pressure from Al Franken to Katie Hill, this is someone you're going to coddle?

What really becomes admission that your party is dependent on the crazy caucus. Afraid you can't win to that. Admission, the fear of attack from extremes will cause you to overwhelm your conscience and principles. I don't think that's ultimately tenable for a party or a party leader.

BURNETT: All right. John, thank you.

AVLON: Thank you.

BURNETT: And next, Republicans and the president are so far apart on COVID relief, but did the face-to-face meeting accomplish anything for tens and tens of millions Americans who need it right now? Plus, can President Biden deliver on a promise on immigration reform?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We lived four years of Trump stringing us along.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:45:22]

BURNETT: Breaking news. President Biden just wrapping up talks with Republican senators on their dueling coronavirus relief plans and they're dueling, very far apart on the amount of money that can go to individuals and on aid that will matter a whole lot to individuals to state and local governments.

The meeting was only supposed to last an hour, called by Republican Senator Susan Collins. Actually, it lasted for two hours, even though both sides are extremely far apart, Biden's plan has a $1.9 trillion plan on the table, the GOP has, you know, about a third of that.

But Senator Susan Collins did sound optimistic as she left the White House moments ago.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. SUSAN COLLINS (R-ME): I think it was an excellent meeting and we're very appreciative that as his first official meeting in the Oval Office, the president chose to spend so much time with us in a frank and very useful discussion.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BURNETT: I want to go back to Phil Mattingly at the White House.

And, Phil, of course, you I wouldn't say we came together, and as you point out, they're incredibly far apart on issues that both of their flanks, put it that way, have said are nonnegotiable.

So, is there any sign if the White House shares the optimistic sort of tone that we just heard from Collins?

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: So, they're expected to put out a readout of the meeting in a short while. What I guess the earliest thing I heard was from one official who texted me, good meeting doesn't equal deal. And I think that's kinds of the obvious thing right now. It also echoes what Senator Susan Collins said.

But I also think there's some effort on the Democratic side to tamp down expectations of what a two-hour meeting means. And the reason why is this -- if you listened to what the White House officials from the president on down said for 10, 15 days in a row, they made clear acting big is what they see as the mandate. Acting big is what they see as their pathway forward to address what they view as dual crises.

And while Republicans have made clear they want to talk, and Republicans have told me that they believe they can come up from $618 billion top line they put on the table. They're not coming close to $1.9 trillion.

BURNETT: No.

MATTINGLY: And so, the biggest question outstanding is yes, talks will continue. Yes, I can tell you, Republicans are extremely appreciative of the fact they had two hours in the Oval Office with the president and I would note two hours in the Oval Office before any Democratic lawmakers had two hours in the Oval Office --

BURNETT: Fair point, yeah.

MATTINGLY: -- with President Biden. And I think you could see Senator Collins kind of hinted that in her public statement as well. There's also recognition of the dynamics right now on the policy front. And they're just really, really far apart.

And as you know, Manu is talking about it earlier, Democrats on Capitol Hill are ready to go, and they're ready to go and they're ready to go big. And they believe they're aligned with the White House from the president on down, don't think any meeting is going to change that dramatically. But obviously, we'll wait and see what the White House has to say.

BURNETT: OK. So, literally, as we have been talking, everyone knows you're now our senior White House reporter, but you obviously also were many years covering Capitol Hill. So, we've just gotten as you were speaking something from Mitch McConnell which I think is significant. I want to share it with viewers, especially in the context of him just defending Liz Cheney's vote on impeachment moments ago.

So, now, he's come out with a statement on Congresswoman Marjorie Taylor Greene, Phil. He has broken his silence. And literally, this is a quote from Senator McConnell. Quote: Loony lies and conspiracy theories are cancer for the Republican Party and our country. Somebody that suggested perhaps no airplane hit the Pentagon on 9/11, that horrifying school shootings were pre-staged, and that the Clintons crashed JFK's airplane is not living in reality.

Though this is a pretty incredible statement from anyone in the Republican Party, but this is from the minority leader.

MATTINGLY: Yeah, minority leader who also didn't mention Marjorie Taylor Greene by name, kind of echoing what the White House press secretary has done in the briefing room.

Look, it underscores what we've seen over the course of the last six weeks, that McConnell trying to move the party away from where they were centralized, over the course of the last four years. He's failed on that front when it comes to impeachment. It will be interesting to see if this has effect particularly on House

Republicans, particularly on House Republican Leader Kevin McCarthy, who is supposed to meet with Marjorie Taylor Greene.

This is a push -- this is a push from his counterpart in the Senate. We'll see if he does anything with it the course of the next 24 hour -- Erin.

BURNETT: Wow.

All right. Thank you very much. Pretty incredible statement, right? Loony and to list them out, right, making sure he is not leaving anything for interpretation there.

Thank you very much.

And, of course, that comes ahead of Kevin McCarthy's meeting with Marjorie Taylor Greene tomorrow when her committee assignment on the education committee is up for discussion.

And tomorrow, President Biden signing an executive order on immigration reform, already, though, he is facing legal challenges on this.

Ed Lavandera is OUTFRONT.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ED LAVANDERA, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The immigration debate in America is a political minefield and right out of the gate, President Biden is facing legal challenges. The president issued a 100-day pause on deportations but a federal judge has temporarily blocked that move. But Biden is ready to move on other issues.

Ilse Mendez came to Laredo, Texas, with her parents at the age of 2. She's now 33. Everyone in her family including her four children are now U.S. citizens, except her.

Mendez is one of the hundreds of thousands of people known as Dreamers. President Biden is proposing a pathway to citizen ship for these immigrants who have been able to live in the U.S. because of the Obama era program known as DACA.

ILSE MENDEZ, DACA RECIPIENT: We have lived four years of Trump stringing us along with that fear and anxiety. So, I'm hopeful that something will -- something positive will come out of these different legislations, or these executive actions that Biden has brought.

LAVANDERA: The Trump administration rolled out four years of controversial programs that critics have often described as inhumane but that many conservatives have celebrated. There are still 611 children separated from their parents as part of the Trump administration's zero tolerance policy.

The Biden administration is proposing a task force to reunify those families. JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I will accomplish what I

said I would do, a much more humane policy based on family unification.

LAVANDERA: There are still about 28,000 migrants sitting in Mexican border towns, seeking asylum through the controversial "remain in Mexico" policy. Advocates have pushed for these migrants to be allowed into the country while their cases are handled in immigration courts.

Former acting director of Immigration and Customs Enforcement, Ronald Vitiello, warns that Biden's immigration policies could create another surge of migrants at the southern border.

RONALD VITIELLO, FORMER ACTING DIRECTOR, ICE: My warning would be learn from the history you already have. When you rolled back those elements of what's in place now, then you're going to -- you're going to encourage people.

LAVANDERA: And then there is the issue of the border wall.

How much do you enjoy this view?

JOSEPH HEIN, TEXAS LANDOWNER: I'm going to see this through bars. It's going to be horrible.

LAVANDERA: Last year, Joseph Hein was bracing for construction of the border wall across his ranch on the bank of the Rio Grande in Texas. We returned to see him after President Biden halted all construction.

HEIN: Along the road that they built, they put p these markers.

LAVANDERA: But now, Hein feels like he has won the border wall fight, at least for four years anyway.

HEIN: I saw it as a hostile takeover of my property and I was being treated like a second-class citizen. And they were fine and dandy with it.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LAVANDERA (on camera): So Erin, as I mentioned, right out of the gate, President Biden proposing issues that are sure to hit stumbles along the way. The president is calling for a pathway to citizen ship for millions of undocumented immigrants already in the U.S. It's an eight- year plan that requires criminal background checks and proof they are learning English and there's also the question of what to do with that "remain in Mexico" policy, which is highly controversial for both sides of the aisle.

So, this idea of bipartisanship and immigration, seeing those two words in the same sentence over the next few weeks and months seems incredibly difficult -- Erin.

BURNETT: All right. Ed, thank you very much.

And next, vicious crackdowns over protests in Russia over the poisoning and now detention of that Putin critic. Did they signal just how worried Vladimir Putin really is right now?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:57:19]

BURNETT: Tonight, the U.S. slamming Vladimir Putin for the harsh tactics used against tens of thousands of protesters across Russia.

Could these protests actually be a real threat to Putin?

Matthew Chance is OUTFRONT.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): This is what the Kremlin does when it's threatened, it cracks down hard. Across Russia, mass protests calling for the release of key opposition leader Alexey Navalny were met with more than 5,000 detentions and of course, brute force.

In Moscow, this protester was repeatedly shot with an electric baton as he was pulled away in agony. I can't breathe shouts another as he's held down by riot police in the remote city of (INAUDIBLE). But the heavy-handed tactics don't seem to be easing the public mood.

We're all really fed up, says this woman. I've been waiting for the moment when finally revolt and demonstrations begin, she says.

This is what's been galvanizing them. Not just the horrific poisoning of Alexey Navalny in Siberia last year but also his defiant performance since recovering, returning to Russia to face arrests and calling for more protests from jail. He now faces a key court hearing to decide if he will spend years behind bars or be free.

Navalny's success online, it seems needling the Kremlin most of all. His team's latest anti-corruption expose detailing a billion-dollar palace alleged to have been built for Vladimir Putin has now been viewed more than 100 million times on YouTube. The Kremlin denies any connection to the building.

But there seems to have been at least one bazaar attempt to boost the Putin support online. This video posted on pro-Kremlin video showing workers with face masks in military style uniforms performing this highly choreographed dance routine to patriotic Russian pop song.

Putin is our president, they shout at the end.

More seriously, Russian riot police are being shown prepped to squash the demonstrations. The country is proud of you, they're told by their commander, not the protesters outside.

It seems the battle lines have been drawn in this standoff playing out on Russia's streets. Neither side seems ready to back down.

(END VIDEOTAPE) CHANCE (on camera): Well, Erin, supporters of Alexey Navalny are calling on President Biden to pressure the Kremlin and impose tough sanctions on individuals close to Vladimir Putin. So far, U.S. officials have condemned the treatment of the Russian opposition leader and the protesters.

But it now won't be until after the court hearing tomorrow when it's known if Navalny will be freed or kept behind bars that the U.S. and its allies will be expected to act.

Back to you, Erin.

BURNETT: Thank you so much, Matthew.

And thanks to all of you.

Anderson starts now.