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Erin Burnett Outfront
Progressives Reverse Course, Now OK To Vote On Infrastructure Despite Manchin Refusing To Endorse Social Safety Net Bill; Rep. Jan Schakowsky (D-IL) Discusses About The Support To Both Bill From The House Of Representatives; Top Forecaster: VA Now Leaning Republican; Election Day Tomorrow; 2 Key Justices Appear Open To Challenge Of Texas Abortion Law; Trump Faces Deadline Tomorrow In Attempt To Block Jan. 6 Docs. Aired 7-8p ET
Aired November 01, 2021 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST: And to our viewers, thanks very much for watching. I'm Wolf Blitzer live here in Scotland. You can always follow me on Twitter and Instagram @WOLFBLITZER. You can tweet the show @CNNSITROOM.
Erin Burnett OUTFRONT starts right now.
ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST: OUTFRONT next, House progressives caving to Manchin, now promising to vote on the bipartisan infrastructure bill without assurances from the Senator on the much bigger bill. So where does he stand on the massive spending legislation?
BURNETT: Plus, Virginia voters just hours from heading to the polls in the State's crucial governor's race, huge national implications from this. Right now both candidates on the trail making their final push this hour at dueling rallies.
And a lawyer for the assistant director who reportedly handed the gun to Alec Baldwin before the movie said shooting speaking out for the first time and the Sheriff leading the investigation is my guest. Let's go OUTFRONT.
And good evening. I'm Erin Burnett.
OUTFRONT tonight, Manchin scores a major win for now. The moderate Democrat forcing progressives in his own party to cave and agree to hold a vote on President Biden's $1.2 trillion bipartisan infrastructure bill without any assurances that Sen. Joe Manchin will actually sign on to the President and progressives much larger $1.75 trillion spending bill, the price tag still sort of up in the air too.
I mean, make no mistake, this is what Manchin wanted. He got progressives to reverse course and he got them to do something that they have repeatedly and loudly said they would never do.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. CORI BUSH (D-MO): We've been very clear from the very beginning that both bills, the infrastructure bill as well as the Build Back Better Act have to go together. REP. PRAMILA JAYAPAL (D-WA): We intend to vote for both bills when
the Build Back Better Act is ready.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Congresswoman Rashida Tlaib had added to this tweeting, "Let me be clear; bringing the so called bipartisan infrastructure plan to a vote without the Build Back Better Act at the same time is a betrayal. We will hold the line and vote it down."
Well, it seems tonight they are no longer holding the line instead retreating and giving President Biden that bipartisan infrastructure bill. Something the majority of the American people want and what many Republicans want as well. I keep saying bipartisan because they really was, it wasn't just like one Republican, let's call it, bipartisan. Nineteen Republican senators join Democrats to vote for that bill, $1.2 trillion, for desperately needed roads, bridges, mass transit and more.
But will this end up being a victory for Biden? I mean, any victory could be short-lived, because the much larger spending bill that Biden has staked so much political capital on, the progressives said was do or die is now up in the air and this is not what Biden wanted.
I mean, remember it was just days ago that President Biden declared that Democrats backed his framework for that plan, but now we don't even know what is it and made appears Manchin is still not on board.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. JOE MANCHIN (D-WV): I will not support the reconciliation legislation without knowing how the bill would impact our debt, and our economy and our country.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Okay. Well, that sudden surprise now sending Democrats in the White House, scrambling to address Manchin's latest set of concerns. And obviously in all this, I keep saying Manchin, Manchin, Manchin, I'm not even talking about Sen. Kyrsten Sinema here who may bring yet a whole different set of issues to the table.
All right. Manu Raju is OUTFRONT. So Manu, what does this mean, these developments for the fate of President Biden's sweeping economic agenda. And as I said that so-called Build Back Better plan but he has staked so much political capital on.
MANU RAJU, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes. A lot of questions about whether the bigger Bill can even get out of the United States Senate. One senator who can defect and derail the whole thing, Joe Manchin is making clear he could vote no. He is not anywhere near where the Democratic leaders wanted to be, where the White House wants him to be, despite months of painstaking negotiations to court him behind this bill.
Now, that is uncertain. What happens to the larger bill is uncertain. Separately, the infrastructure bill seems more and more likely to become law and potentially within days. That's because the progressives in the House have now indicated that they will not hold that Bill hostage in demand that Manchin and Kyrsten Sinema both say that they will support the larger plan.
They are saying that Joe Biden deal with Manchin and Sinema and instead once the law negotiations are done over the larger bill, as long as voted on at the same time as the infrastructure bill, that will be enough for us to say okay and green-light it, essentially ensuring that that bill, the $1.2 trillion infrastructure bill, could become law.
Now, at the same time, Manchin is getting criticized, including from Sen. Bernie Sanders of Vermont who said to us earlier today, "Joe Manchin is concerned about the debt? Why not look at the infrastructure bill that was passed by the Senate that Joe Manchin supported that added more than $250 billion of deficits over the decade according the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office."
[19:05:06]
I asked Joe Manchin about that just moments ago, that criticism and about the fact that the CBO said that it would add to the deficit.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RAJU: Senators, the infrastructure bill you supported added $250 billion to the deficit according to CBO, so how do you square that with your comments today about the concerns about the debt and deficit on the Build Back Better bill?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
RAJU: So he didn't want to address that and he really didn't answer many questions or any questions at all today, despite that statement today making clear about his concerns about the economy, about the debt, about the direction of this agenda and essentially saying he wants to hit pause to ensure the impact that this bill would have on the economy, ensure would not have devastating impact but he would not address questions about what that ultimately means.
So will Joe Manchin get that at the end of the day, Democrats are hopeful but, of course, he's not showing his hand as they're moving forward and other aspects of the agenda, Erin.
BURNETT: All right. Manu, thank you very much.
I want to go OUTFRONT now to Democratic Congresswoman Jan Schakowsky of Illinois. The Executive Board Member at Large for the Progressive Caucus and also on the House Budget Committee. So Congresswoman, I really appreciate your time. Let me just understand here, just to be clear, where you stand. Do you support voting on the bipartisan infrastructure bill knowing that there is now no guarantee of the bigger spending bill getting through the Senate?
REP. JAN SCHAKOWSKY (D-IL): Well, thank you, Erin, for having me. Absolutely, I think we are on the precipice of passing one of the most transformational pieces of legislation that is going to improve the lives of millions and millions of Americans. And the way we're going to start is by passing both bills from the House of Representatives.
And we have language, it is typed up and getting written so that we can actually have the actual words to say that we are passing this legislation. And by the way, there will be a CBO, Congressional Budget Office score.
BURNETT: Yes.
SCHAKOWSKY: Yes.
BURNETT: So, okay, this is important. Congresswoman Cori Bush, obviously, member of the Progressive Caucus just put out a statement and her comment was of Joe Manchin, "Joe Manchin does not get to dictate the future of our country. I do not trust his assessment of what our communities need the most." And she said, "Sen. Manchin must support the Build Back Better Act."
Not saying she won't vote for the bipartisan bill without it, but obviously a strong suggestion that that's where she stands. Do you feel that you have all the members of your own caucus, that Progressive Caucus, on board with voting for the bipartisan infrastructure bill or you're not sure?
SCHAKOWSKY: Oh, no, there's absolutely no question when we do the two of them together and that is part of the President's framework. These are both his bills so we're going to do them both.
BURNETT: No, I understand what you're saying, but just to be clear so people understand. You maybe could pass them both through the House, but that doesn't actually mean anything if you don't have Manchin and Sinema on board. It doesn't actually get you any further than saying you voted for in the House, if you don't have them on board. So will you vote for the bipartisan bill, not knowing where Manchin and Sinema stand on the other one?
SCHAKOWSKY: I'll vote for the bipartisan bill and I'll vote at the same time. What the Senate is going to get from the House of Representatives is both bills. And I trust the President of the United States when he came to us, he thought and I hope he's right, that the Senate will pass the bill.
So I'm looking forward to doing what he wants, following the President's leadership and I do believe that we're going to get it done, including Joe Manchin and Kyrsten Sinema.
BURNETT: So Sen. Manchin today did accuse progressives of holding the infrastructure bill hostage. Those were his words. Here's what he said exactly.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. JOE MANCHIN (D-WV): In my view, this is not how the United States Congress should operate or in my view has operated in the past. For the sake of the country, I urge the House to vote and pass the bipartisan infrastructure bill. Holding this bill hostage is not going to work in getting my support for the reconciliation bill.
While I've worked hard to find a path to compromise, it's obvious compromise is not good enough for a lot of my colleagues in Congress. It's all or nothing.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: What do you say to Sen. Manchin?
SCHAKOWSKY: The President was so clear in his language to the American people that it takes both bills in order to have his framework achieved. That is so very, very important. And I think what Joe Manchin said confirms our concern that if only the bipartisan infrastructure bill had passed, he would say at least for the time being, I'm done. We're not going to do the other part of the bill so I think this enhanced the President's ability to get his goals achieved.
[19:10:06]
BURNETT: And I understand, look, you got to have faith in the President. I present understand that's what you're doing. You're putting your faith there. But what makes you feel that Manchin and Sinema aren't going to do exactly what you just said they would have done originally, which is okay, great. We got our bipartisan bill. That's all we ever wanted. Forget that other business.
SCHAKOWSKY: For the Rescue Act, Manchin said pretty much the same thing and ended up voting for over a trillion dollars in that legislation. I am hoping that he is not going to take the responsibility for taking away childcare, housing that we haven't had ever in the United States of America, more affordable housing. The child tax credit and finally having some long-term care, home and community-based care in this country, we have never had a policy before.
Does he really want to take responsibility for those things that so many millions of Americans are craving for? I really don't think he does. And that would include West Virginians who desperately need these programs as well.
BURNETT: All right. Thank you very much, Congresswoman Schakowsky. I appreciate your time. Thank you.
SCHAKOWSKY: It's a pleasure, Erin. Thank you.
BURNETT: All right. And next, down to the wire, in just hours, voters in Virginia are going to the polls and they will decide that State's next governor. And you know what, who wins this is going to be crucial, it could tell us the impact Trump and Biden have in future elections and where the midterms are going.
Plus, the Supreme Court, hearing arguments on the controversial Texas abortion law today and we actually could hear them speak. So did they give any hints as to where they stand? And America's political divide now showing up in the air, the
Southwest Airlines now investigating claims that a pilot used a phrase that is code for a vulgar insult of Joe Biden.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:15:26]
BURNETT: Tonight, one of the top political forecaster saying the hugely important race for Virginia governor is now leaning Republican. The race have been leaning Democratic and we are hours away from the polls opening. That forecaster, Larry Sabato, is going to be my guest in just a moment, because we are in the final frenzy.
Election Day begins in hours. The candidates from this closely watched case for governor right now vying for every last vote. Right now on your screen, you see Democrat Terry McAuliffe campaigning into the night, holding a rally in Northern Virginia. McAuliffe has been on the road all day, crossing the State. Obviously on paper, he should have an easy win here. He's well known and incredibly popular governor of the state just four years ago, but McAuliffe is facing serious headwinds from Glenn Youngkin. An opponent that he has made every effort to tie to Trump.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TERRY MCAULIFFE, (D) VIRGINIA GUBERNATORIAL CANDIDATE: I am running against, I'd like to say, Donald Trump in khakis or sweater vest. Trump has now endorsed him for the 10th time today.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Well, Youngkin for his part just spoke to supporters in Virginia Beach after holding another rally earlier today. And today he admitted that this race has big national implications.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GLENN YOUNGKIN, (R) VIRGINIA GUBERNATORIAL CANDIDATE: This race, this race is neck and neck. We're coming up on the outside passing but we got to get it done tomorrow. We've got to get it done.
The entire nation is watching this. Why? Why? There's only two statewide elections this year, New Jersey and Virginia. And all eyes are on Virginia. The nation needs us to vote for them too.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Well, Trump one of those who is watching. For weeks, Youngkin has kept Trump at arm's length, very carefully so. Trump now though injecting himself, forcing himself in at the 11th hour. The former president expected to join a tele-rally in the next hour. Also today releasing a statement fully embracing Youngkin writing, "We get along very well together and strongly believe in many of the same policies." I should note, of course, they have never campaigned together. Jeff Zeleny is OUTFRONT in Fairfax, Virginia where McAuliffe is
expected to speak momentarily. All right. Jeff, look, they are going into the night here on the last night, both in the Northern Virginia suburbs tonight where you have obviously such a huge population. What does this mean?
JEFF ZELENY, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL AFFAIRS CORREPONDENT: Erin, what it means is both Terry McAuliffe and Glenn Youngkin are essentially going after some of the same types of voters. Joe Biden won here a year ago by 10 percentage points. But he carried these counties just outside Washington, D.C. by more than 60 points, but it is some of those very voters who voted for Joe Biden last year and now maybe thinking about voting for Glenn Youngkin or not voting at all that has the McAuliffe campaign incredibly worried.
There's no doubt the energy is on the side of Glenn Youngkin and the Republican ticket. There's a sense among Democrats that they're simply have not been enthusiastic enough, largely because of what's been going on in Washington in action, a Democratic divide, but the early voting here keeps this race very competitive and really keeps a lot of questions about what this is going to be tomorrow. More than 1.1 million people have already voted, over a 45-day stretch. The first time this has ever happened in Virginia.
So the question, has Terry McAuliffe and Democrats, have they banked enough votes to withstand any type of deficit tomorrow or has Glenn Youngkin also been really going after that early vote. So this certainly is going to be a very close race tomorrow. Neither side feels necessarily confident of victory, but that tells you all you need to know.
Terry McAuliffe thought that he would be essentially walking to a second term here in Virginia. The only Commonwealth in the country that does not allow governors to serve two consecutive terms. He thought he'd be going back to Richmond with an easy race. This has been the hardest race of his life. Tomorrow at this point, we'll see if he holds on, Erin.
BURNETT: I mean, it is an incredible story, whatever the outcome may be. All right. Jeff Zeleny, thank you.
Gloria Borger is with me, our Chief Political Analyst. And as I promised, Larry Sabato, Founder and Director of the University of Virginia Center for Politics. The Author of Sabato's Crystal Ball newsletter.
And Larry, of course, as I said, obviously, you're a Virginian through and through. And tonight you say that this race is leaning Republican, it had been leaning Democratic. I mean, Jeff talks about the energy really shifting to Glenn Youngkin's side but I mean, you're shifting this to lean Republican tell me why.
[19:20:00]
LARRY SABATO, FOUNDER AND DIRECTOR, UNIVERSITY OF VIRGINIA CENTER FOR POLITICS: Well, actually Jeff summarized it quite well. The fact of the matter is everything that could go wrong for Terry McAuliffe has, much of it, not his fault, not under his control.
Let's be honest, President Biden's ratings are way down nationally and in Virginia. He's a little bit higher in Virginia than he is nationally, but not that much. And the congressional Democrats, it's almost like they plan to torpedo McAuliffe's campaign. Look at what happened today and this has been going on for months. The parading before the cameras and airing of all their differences in public and not giving Democratic voters a reason to come out and vote, that's why there's such a gigantic enthusiasm gap.
I mean, this is huge. It's 15 points, 18 points, depending on the polls. I do have to add one thing.
BURNETT: Yes.
SABATO: The McAuliffe campaign insist that their private polling and their careful modeling of the early vote says they have enough votes banked to overcome whatever advantage Youngkin may have on election day. I need to acknowledge that, because they're very good people and they may be right.
But our sense of it and all the data that we have collected, and the elite opinion that is the people who are involved in the system. And when you have a quite a number of Democrats, some in public office saying, unfortunately, I think Youngkin is going to win, you do pay attention to that. They're not always right, either, but you do pay attention.
BURNETT: Now, Gloria, it's interesting because what Larry is referring to and Jeff did too, the early vote, it's 45 days and expected to have gone overwhelmingly for McAuliffe. It's a matter of, to the word used, how much did they bank. And now tonight, this point that Jeff Zeleny is making, they're both in the Northern Virginia suburbs, which in a state that went 10 points for Joe Biden, went 60 points for Joe Biden and Glenn Youngkin thinks he's going to pick up crucial votes there. I mean, that's a pretty significant statement just in and of itself.
GLORIA BORGER, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST: Yes. I mean, how many of those voters who voted for Joe Biden are will now vote for Glenn Youngkin, I think that's the question who portrays himself as kind of the suburban dad. He's very appealing, as we all know, for weeks, and weeks, and weeks Terry McAuliffe has tried to make Glenn Youngkin into Donald Trump and I think that's really difficult.
He's been very clever in the way he has navigated all of this. Yes, Donald Trump has endorsed him and yes Donald Trump may get on the phone and talk about him tonight. But he has kind of kept him at arm's length while at the same time taking up conservative causes, talking about election integrity, rather than talking about the rigged election, talking about conservatives and what they want taught at their schools being anti-mandate.
So he's done a very clever job of being able to say, yes, I support some of the things Donald Trump supports, but he doesn't bear hug Donald Trump. And this could be a model for other Republicans going forward.
BURNETT: Yes. I mean, certainly, he made it clear he voted early himself. He trusted the integrity of the system. He said Joe Biden was president. I mean, this may seem a low bar, but he had the courage to very clearly do that early on.
BORGER: Yes.
BURNETT: Larry, let me ask you, though, because Youngkin, to something else, Gloria said, has taken on the issue of education, other issues, and he and his supporters were quick to seize on this very specific comment by McAuliffe about educational debate. Let me remind everyone of it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MCAULIFFE: I'm not going to let parents come into schools ...
YOUNGKIN: You vetoed the bill.
MCAULIFFE: ... and actually take books out ...
YOUNGKIN: You vetoed the bill.
MCAULIFFE: ... and make their own decision.
YOUNGKIN: You vetoed it.
MCAULIFFE: ... and make their own decision.
YOUNGKIN: You vetoed it.
MCAULIFFE: So ...
YOUNGKIN: (Inaudible) our parents, you vetoed it.
MCAULIFFE: ... yes, I stopped bill but I don't think parents should be telling schools what they should teach.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Youngkin seized on that, of course, Larry, and it's been a big part of his message recently. Here he is.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
YOUNGKIN: He wants to put government between parents and their children.
I'm going to stand up for parents. I'm going to stand up for children. I'm going to stand up for the fundamental rights for parents to make decisions with regards to their kids' education.
Terry McAuliffe has said sit down, be quiet, I don't care what you think.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: So Larry, is this an issue that's getting a lot of airtime or is this an issue that's actually moving votes?
SABATO: It's not moving votes. It is generating Republican enthusiasm, which in turn is increasing Republican turnout. That's the big story of this election if it comes out the way it looks like it might. Essentially the Republicans are so excited, they're climbing the walls and part of it is they've lost for 10 years. Every single election, we have an election every year in Virginia, so this is their chance at last to win an election.
And, of course, they're angry at President Biden and they're angry at the Democrats in Congress.
[19:25:02]
And now they're angry about the schools. Now, you can argue that some of these issues are created out of whole cloth, all right, or they're not nearly as big as Youngkin is trying to present them as being, I happen to believe that.
But the Republican activists really don't care whether it's being exaggerated or not. They care that they're hearing what they want to hear from their candidate and they're hearing it in a way that is rather suave and sophisticated. He does look like a suburban dad, although, so does McAuliffe. But they're very excited, the Republicans are, and they finally got a chance to win and that is driving big turnout.
BURNETT: Gloria, quick final word. I mean, the enthusiasm gap, that's the issue. That's what this comes down to tomorrow.
BORGER: Always about enthusiasm, particularly in these kinds of elections, these off-year elections. Democrats gave it all in the last election and they're not finding a lot, as Larry is saying. They're not finding a lot to be enthusiastic about. They're mad about the Democrats. Biden's popularity is down.
And so there's a sense that they could just shrug and say, we're going to just kind of sit this one out, no matter what kind of operation you have to get out to vote and McAuliffe has been good. Nothing is perfect and nothing Trump's the way voters feel.
BURNETT: All right. Thank you both very much. We shall see. All eyes are on Virginia.
And next, the Supreme Court hearing arguments and it is what clearly is the most closely watched issue on its docket. What were the justices hinting because we actually could hear them speak and you will too.
And we're learning new details about the 700 pages of documents that Trump's legal team desperately wants to keep from the January 6 Select Committee.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:30:52]
BURNETT: New tonight: two key conservative justices on the Supreme Court, Brett Kavanaugh and Amy Coney Barrett, seeming to open the door to siding with liberal justices. Something a lot of liberal pundits said would never, ever, ever happen.
And yet, tonight, Kavanaugh and Coney Barrett, appear willing to hear arguments challenging a Texas anti-abortion law.
Now, the law you may know bans abortion starting at six weeks and it empowers private citizens to enforce it. Justice Kavanaugh today raised questions about the law. Specifically, asking whether this type of anti-abortion law could actually be used to infringe on other rights and we got to hear him say it.
Here he is.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
JUSTICE BRETT KAVANAUGH, U.S. SUPREME COURT: The amicus brief of the Firearms Policy Coalition says, quote, this will easily become the model for suppression of other constitutional rights with Second Amendment rights being the most likely targets, end quote.
And it could be free speech rights. It could be free exercise of religion rights. It could be Second Amendment rights if this position is accepted here.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
BURNETT: And Justice Coney Barrett pushing back on federal conservative justices, arguing that state courts could take the lead on litigating the abortion ban.
OUTFRONT now, Laurence Tribe, constitutional professor of law at Harvard Law School.
Professor Tribe, I appreciate your time.
So, nearly three hours of oral arguments and two different challenges to the law. But, you know, I -- I -- who knows where they will come out on this. But these issues that they are raising, certainly, are not what, you know, many had said oh they are going to just go with every single conservative thing. They'll never, ever support abortion rights.
That's not what you're hearing here for their various reasons, is it?
LAURENCE TRIBE, CONSTITUTIONAL LAW PROFESSOR, HARVARD LAW SCHOOL: Not at all. And in fact, I -- I was suggesting from the very beginning that the way to win this case was to focus on the fact that it's not just abortion, but every right that is at issue and in jeopardy if laws like the one that Texas has cleverly crafted became the standard method of operating. And several of the justices, as you point out, Justice Kavanaugh,
Justice Barrett, were very insistent that much more is at stake here than abortion. Important, though, abortion might be. Several of the justices, Alito and Gorsuch in particular, and at one point, Justice Thomas, tried to make it sound like it's about abortion and that the government is trying to make special rules for abortion or otherwise lawsuits like these couldn't succeed.
But Justice Barrett wasn't having any of it. Neither was Justice Kavanaugh. And Justices Kagan and Sotomayor were playing off them very effectively.
So in the end, this is going to be a pair of decisions not about abortion as such but about whether states can evade federal rights by setting up structures in which you basically extinguish those rights before you can defend them. And I think that is the way to win the case, and I do think that the suit brought by the Center for Reproductive Justice on behalf of whole women's health, Planned Parenthood, and other private providers is going to win either 6-3 or conceivably, 7-2.
Now, the suit brought by the United States confronts added procedural and jurisdictional hurdles, is probably not going to win but it made a big difference. It helped.
BURNETT: I mean, it's very interesting. I mean, hearing him make the point, right, that you could use this to infringe on Second Amendment rights or freedom of religion but it is just interesting, again, in all the commentary we have heard about how these justices were going to go, it's just not that we have seen, thus far. It's not what we appear to be seeing here.
But as you point out, Professor, the argument that's being made here it seems possibly successfully is not actually about abortion, itself. So, let me ask you about that issue because that is going to come up.
[19:35:02]
The future of Roe v. Wade could be decided --
TRIBE: Right.
BURNETT: -- specifically when the court hears arguments over a Mississippi law banning abortions at 15 weeks.
This is a very specific direct challenge to what was established during Roe. And today, you say a question that Justice Kavanaugh asked the Texas solicitor general stood out to you because it could impact this case, which obviously is very specifically going to be on Roe v. Wade and abortion.
Let me play what Justice Kavanaugh said.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
KAVANAUGH: Are you saying that if an injunction were entered and someone -- some clinic performed abortions now that were then legal under current law, but the law changes in the future -- such that the state could, going forward, restrict abortions at an earlier time.
Are you saying that the state could then reach back and retroactively or allow suits that would reach back and retroactively impose liability on entities that were committing lawful acts as of the time?
(END AUDIO CLIP)
BURNETT: Professor, for those non-lawyers out there, what do you hear there that makes you think he is saying something about Roe?
TRIBE: It's a very complicated question. What he is saying is that we might change the law, and make it possible to restrict abortions earlier. He is obviously thinking about the Mississippi case. He is giving a hint about that.
But at the same time, he is showing what is particularly unfair about the Texas procedure because under the Texas law, if -- as now seems likely -- the court says that the Texas law has got to be put on ice while the litigation continues. And then, it turns out that abortions that have been performed in Texas under the protection of a preliminary injunction become the subject of a bounty suit later on under the statute which has a four-year statute of -- of limitations.
Then, do you mean to be saying, asks Justice Kavanaugh, that there can be retroactive liability? People are just having the rug pulled out from under them?
And he's got basically trapped the solicitor general of Texas who is, on the one hand, thinking, hmm, it looks like Kavanaugh, as we already knew, is not a fan of Roe v. Wade or Casey and he is probably going to be one of five or six justices who in the Mississippi case rolls back abortion protection. But on the other hand, he is pointing out what a catch 22 our law creates.
So, I would hate to have been in his position at that point but it's a very clever trap that Justice Kavanaugh set.
BURNETT: It's going to be fascinating.
All right. Thank you very much, Professor Tribe. I appreciate it.
TRIBE: Sure.
BURNETT: And next, he was the architect of Trump's plan to overturn the election. But tonight, we have new details about what pro-Trump attorney John Eastman was saying right as the insurrection was going down.
And we are hearing from the lawyer representing the assistant director who personally handed Alec Baldwin a loaded gun. Apparently, handed him the loaded gun. Sheriff leading the investigation is OUTFRONT.
(COMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:42:08]
BURNETT: Tonight, the clock is ticking for team Trump. Lawyers for the former president facing a deadline tomorrow to submit their arguments for why the National Archives should be blocked from releasing documents to the January 6th Select Committee.
Now, we found out a lot more about this. We now know those documents involve more than 700 pages. They include handwritten notes, White House visitor logs, call records, a draft presidential speech for January 6th, documents involving then-Vice President Pence and top aides Mark Meadows, Kayleigh McEnany, and Stephen Miller.
This as we also learn about how long Trump waited to act as the riot was unfolding.
And Evan Perez is OUTFRONT.
I mean, Evan, it is pretty incredible now these documents and this reporting. I mean, knowing what is in here gives you a sense of what they really don't want the January 6th committee or the American public to know about Trump's role.
EVAN PEREZ, CNN SENIOR JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Yeah. It really does. Without talking to Donald Trump, if you have these 700 pages, you really could put together a great picture of what the former president was doing in those key couple of weeks as he was trying to overturn his loss in the election. And key things that I looked at as I looked at the list of -- of items.
There were three handwritten memos that were written by the chief of staff at the time, Mark Meadows. Again, memorializing some of his interactions with Trump and some of the people he was meeting with as they were trying to overturn the election results. There is a White House lawyer who wrote memos, and took notes during some of those key meetings.
We -- Erin, we've seen, already, testimony from some of the Justice Department officials who were over at the White House discussing some of these efforts to overturn the election. And these memos -- these notes -- could provide crucial new detail about what was going on. We have call logs, and visitor records.
Again, there was a list of oddball characters from the kraken lawyer to the pillow guy who were coming in there to try to help Trump come up with plan to overturn the election. All of this would be key to the committee trying to understand what happened.
BURNETT: Yeah. I mean, crucial when you think about how much information it really is, and again, just the fact that they don't want anyone to know it. I mean, you know, there is also new reporting that you have, I know, everyone, on how John Eastman, the pro-Trump lawyer who wrote that memo, you know, that Pence failed to follow to overturn the election, but it was a memo basically do this and do this and you can overturn the election.
That he blamed Pence himself for the insurrection as it was taking place. Explain that one.
PEREZ: Right. Exactly. And, you know, this is amid the violent mob already going into the Capitol building. Mike Pence has been evacuated. His -- his family, his aides have been evacuated to a safe room to -- to flee the mob.
And, you know, this aide of -- of -- of Mike Pence, Greg Jacobs, sends an e-mail to Eastman in which he says because of your BS, we're under siege.
[19:45:04]
Eastman fires back very quickly. Again, these people are hiding from the mob and Eastman says, quote, the siege is because you and your boss did not do what was necessary to allow this to be aired -- to -- in -- in a public way, so the American people can see for themselves what happened. These are, again, the words of a lawyer who has kind of given -- since -- obviously, since this came to light, Erin, that he has said, you know, this -- his notes and his -- his memos were being misunderstood. You can see now from his own words, what he thought that day.
BURNETT: Right. Right. I mean, you know, he said what he said on the day he said it at the time he said it with what we all knew was going on at that moment. Thank you so much, Evan.
PEREZ: Thank you.
BURNETT: And next, the lawyer representing the assistant director who's been accused of handing Alec Baldwin the loaded gun speaks out.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LISA TORRACO, ASST DIRECTOR DAVID HALLS' LAWYER: It states that my client grabbed the gun off of a prop cart and handed it to Baldwin, that absolutely did not happen.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: And Southwest Airlines investigating a pilot accused of saying "Let's go, Brandon." What the cryptic phrase actually means.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BURNETT: Tonight, we are just hearing for the first time from the attorney for assistant director Dave Halls. That's who investigators say handed the gun to Alec Baldwin before Baldwin shot and killed Halyna Hutchins. Halls' attorney now denying that he actually handed the gun to Baldwin.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TORRACO: It states that my client grabbed the gun off of a prop cart and handed it to Baldwin. That absolutely did not happen. That absolutely did not happen. Witnesses, also, confirm that they remember that the armorer or the armorer's assistant brought in the firearm, brought it onto the set.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: OUTFRONT now, the sheriff for Santa Fe County, Adan Mendoza.
And, Sheriff Mendoza, I really appreciate your time tonight. I know the affidavit filed by one of your officers back on October 22nd was very clear. It states that Dave Halls grabbed one of the prop guns on a cart outside, yelled cold gun, handed it to Alec Baldwin.
At this time, from everything you know given that Halls' attorney now pointblank denying that happened, do you stand by that report?
SHERIFF ADAN MENDOZA, SANTA FE COUNTY, NEW MEXICO: Well, I think there was different statements that were put in affidavits for search warrants. Those aren't all inclusive of all the statements, obviously, in the investigation. So, there are statements that -- that Mr. Halls either inspected or handled the firearm prior to giving it to Mr. Baldwin.
BURNETT: In terms of your understanding of the chain here of how it went, though, is it -- is your understanding at this point and I know obviously you are investigating it but that the gun did go from halls, and then to Baldwin and that -- that's the order? There was no one in between them?
MENDOZA: Well, you know, there's different statements like I stated so we are trying to get to the -- to the facts of the case. And that's why it's so important that Mr. Halls and -- and Reed Gutierrez and Mr. Baldwin keep cooperating in the investigation, and come in for follow- up interviews to clarify some questions that we have in any discrepancies that may be in the statements.
BURNETT: Have you -- are they all cooperating in the way that you expect them to and wish them to at this point or no?
MENDOZA: Well, no. I -- I think that, you know, working with counsel. Some have -- have not been very cooperative in coming up for follow-up interviews and, you know, that's on advice of their counsel but we would recommend that they come in and -- and clarify some of the -- the statements. Clarify some of the facts and let us know exactly what happened. If Mr. Halls sees what happened on the set that day different, then come and explain to us how it happened.
BURNETT: So as you are going through all of this and talking to the witnesses that you ever been speaking to. Sheriff, have you gotten any answers about how live ammunition ended up on the movie set and in -- and in the gun?
MENDOZA: Well, I wish it was that simple. We are working through statements, evidence and trying to determine the fact, so it's -- it's not as simple as whether or not we know that for sure. We're working towards clarifying exactly how it got there, who brought it there, and why it was there.
So, that's the focus of the investigation. BURNETT: Has anyone been able to tell you at this point who actually
loaded the gun? I mean, you know, live ammunition didn't just magically end up in there. Someone put it in there. Have you any indication of how that occurred?
MENDOZA: Well, again, you know, there's -- there's different statements that have been made. So we have some clarifying questions. So, we -- you know, that's up for interpretation.
And again, we -- we want to clarify exactly who loaded the weapon, who inspected the -- the firearm. How the rounds got there. Who brought the rounds? And -- and who -- you know, what the chain of custody of that firearm was prior to Mr. Baldwin firing it.
BURNETT: So, you know, you talk about some people cooperating and others not the way that you wish that they would including Mr. Halls. Alec Baldwin, of course, spoke over the weekend. He says he remains in contact with your investigators constantly.
Here is exactly what he said, Sheriff.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ALEC BALDWIN, ACTOR: I am not allowed to comment on the investigation. I talk to the cops every day. I talk to them every day to find out. Look, I'm cooperating with them.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Sheriff, is he speaking to your investigators every day? And -- and has he been cleared?
MENDOZA: Well, I won't comment whether he's speaking every day. I don't know that exactly for sure right now. I know that he has been in -- in contact with our investigators. I don't know if that's every day or -- or every other day. But he has been receptive to phone calls. But we would like to, obviously, have him here in person to clarify any statements or clarify any facts that we -- that we have.
BURNETT: One other crucial question I do have, Sheriff, and I don't know, you know, whether you know the answer to this yet because but as we talk about the live ammunition, have -- have you or the FBI been able to verify yet that Alec Baldwin did fire a live round as you suspect?
MENDOZA: Well again, the -- the firearm -- the casing -- the spent casing and the actual projectile have been submitted to the FBI crime lab. They will -- they'll do the analysis and they'll come back with -- with the verification that that projectile's from that casing was fired by that weapon. And the weapon's functional.
And so, there is a lot of testing that needs to be done and until that's done, I won't say with 100 percent certainty that that is true. But based on the statements and based on the fact that Ms. Hutchinson was killed and Mr. Souza was injured, we suspect it was a live round.
[19:55:05]
BURNETT: All right. Well, Sheriff Mendoza, I appreciate your time. Thank you very much.
MENDOZA: Thank you.
BURNETT: And next, it's a saying going viral in some conservative circles. A cryptic phrase to insult the president. And now, it's being heard everywhere from sporting events to Capitol Hill.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BURNETT: Tonight, a Southwest pilot is under investigation after reportedly uttering the phrase, "Let's go, Brandon". This phrase has become right-wing code for an expletive chant about Joe Biden.
Tom Foreman is OUTFRONT.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Southwest does not condone employees sharing their personal political opinions while on the job. That is the stance of Southwest Airlines as it investigates the claim of an associated press reporter who says she heard a pilot onboard announce "Let's go, Brandon".
(MUSIC)
FOREMAN: The phrase already immortalized in song and dance has been rocking through the political right after it first appeared at a NASCAR race. Driver Brandon Brown was talking when --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: As you can hear the chants from the -- the crowd.
CROWD: (EXPLETIVE DELETED) Joe Biden!
FOREMAN: But the reporter accidentally, or on purpose, it's not clear, described the profane putdown differently.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE; You can hear the chants from the -- the crowd. Let's go, Brandon.
FOREMAN: Conservatives instantly embraced it as code, a way to attack the duly-elected president with vulgar language, while not actually saying the words.
Soon, it was appearing on road signs, at other sporting events, and was echoed by Republican lawmakers. Texas Senator Ted Cruz said it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Let's go Brandon. Say it. Say it.
SEN. TED CRUZ (R-TX): Let's go, Brandon.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Let's go, Brandon! FOREMAN: The Texas governor tweeted it, too. A South Carolina
congressman wore a mask with the phrase in the Capitol, while one from Florida quoted it on the floor.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Let's go, Brandon. I yield back.
FOREMAN: And products all over the Internet are now adorned with the words, including this t-shirt which you can have for a mere $45 donation to the re-election campaign of the man Joe Biden beat.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
FOREMAN: Now, to be sure, Democrats cursed the former president's name when he was in office, too. But the number of elected officials who are embracing this phrase in very public ways seems to go beyond what we saw then. And they're not merely tolerating this vitriol among their voters, they are encouraging it, Erin.
BURNETT: Yeah, absolutely. Tom, thank you very much.
FOREMAN: You're welcome.
BURNETT: And thanks to all of you for joining us.
"AC360" starts now.
