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Erin Burnett Outfront
Report: Uvalde Mayor Says "Negotiator" Tried to Call Gunman; Police: Multiple People Shot at Hospital in Tulsa; Fire Department: Multiple Victims Dead After Tulsa Hospital Shooting; Ukraine: Russian Forces Now Control 80 Percent of Key Eastern City; JPMorgan Chase CEO: Brace For Economic "Hurricane;" Biden Says He Was Not Alerted To Formula Shortage Until April; Tulsa Police: 3 Killed In Hospital Shooting, Gunman Dead; Jury Finds Johnny Depp Was Defamed By Amber Heard's Op-Ed. Aired 7-8p ET
Aired June 01, 2022 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[19:00:22]
ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST: OUTFRONT next, breaking news. Uvalde's mayor revealing new details about the initial response to the elementary school massacre. What he's saying tonight.
Plus, Ukraine's president says they are losing 60 to 100 soldiers a day, as Ukrainian forces struggled to stop Russia's advance in the east as we are getting tonight new satellite images that reveal exactly where Putin's forces are digging in tonight.
And brace yourself. That is the warning from JPMorgan's CEO Jaime Dimon who tonight is warning the United States is about to be hit by an economic hurricane.
Let's go OUTFRONT.
And good evening. I'm Erin Burnett.
OUTFRONT tonight, the breaking news, Uvalde's mayor tonight revealing new details about the initial response to the massacre at Robb Elementary School. Mayor Don McLaughlin telling "The Washington Post" that there was a negotiator trying to reach the gunman on the phone. And the crucial next piece of information he's shared with "The Post" is that he doesn't believe the negotiator knew that there were children alive, calling 911, while the negotiator was desperately trying to reach the gunmen. He failed to do so, according to the mayor.
It comes as we have learned that those children called 911 again and again as 19 police officers were inside their school, out inside their classroom, choosing not to go in.
And tonight, the police chief and incident commander in charge of the entire response team told our Shimon Prokupecz that he is not dodging investigators.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) SHIMON PROKUPECZ, CNN CRIME AND JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: They said that you're not cooperating.
CHIEF PETE ARREDONDO, UVALDE SCHOOL DISTRICT POLICE DEPARTMENT: I've been on the phone with them every day.
PROKUPECZ: They're saying you're not cooperating, sir.
ARREDONDO: Just so you know, we've been talking to them every day.
PROKUPECZ: What is your -- what is your reaction?
ARREDONDO: Y'all have a good day.
PROKUPECZ: What is your reaction, sir?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: As we reported yesterday, the Texas Department of Public Safety, as you heard from Shimon's questioning, says Pete Arredondo, who you saw there, has not responded to a request for a follow-up interview with investigators. Obviously, very different from what he's portraying there.
In the eight days since the shooting, officials like Arredondo have faced withering criticism, over the information they released from their investigation, and how they handled themselves, of course, that day, but the information they put out that they then backtracked on. For example, originally, remember the claim that the school resource officer engaged the shooter outside, and then they came out and said that actually never happened. Yesterday, they came out and said that there was not a drop in. No door was propped open when the gunman entered the building. They had said there was a door propped open, and that's how he got in days earlier. That's apparently not true either.
The false information that has been released has added to the incredible frustration and anger in Uvalde, which today says its final goodbyes to two more victims of the shooting. Ten-year-old Jose Manuel Flores Jr., and 48-year-old teacher, Irma Garcia.
Omar Jimenez is OUTFRONT live in Uvalde, Texas.
And, Omar, what is the latest where you are tonight?
OMAR JIMENEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Erin, among what we're hearing from Mayor Don McLaughlin's interview, at least part of it, with a local station is, if we made mistakes, we'll own them. Well, that's what's being investigated at this point. The Uvalde County district attorney says she will be reviewing the ongoing Texas Ranger report, and then decide if charges will need to be brought in the situation. Of course, tied to the delayed law enforcement response in portion, and also among what they'll be looking at, some of those key decisions investigators say were made by the school district police chief.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ARREDONDO: Thank you guys very much. I appreciate you.
JIMENEZ (voice-over): Captured by cameras for the first time in nearly a week, Uvalde school police chief, Pete Arredondo, greets officers standing guard outside his home.
ARREDONDO: We're not going to release anything. We have -- we have people in our community being buried. So, we're going to be respectful.
JIMENEZ: Deflecting questions from CNN about decisions to delay entering the Robb Elementary Classroom on the day of the shootings.
PROKUPECZ: How do you explain yourself?
ARREDONDO: We're going to be respectful to the family.
PROKUPECZ: But when asked when --
ARREDONDO: We're going to do that eventually, obviously. Whenever this is done, when the families are finished grieving, then we'll do that obviously. And just so everybody -- just so everybody -- just so everybody knows, we've been in contact with DPS every day, just so you all know, every day.
PROKUPECZ: They said you're not -- they said that you're not cooperating.
ARREDONDO: I've been on the phone with them every day.
JIMENEZ: During a city council candidate forum in April, the chief talked about how communication was crucial.
ARREDONDO: I think through communication, everything can be resolved, whatever the issues maybe.
JIMENEZ: However, Tuesday, he was quietly sworn into his city council seat. When CNN questioned the secrecy, he called the meeting, quote, a private thing, that was done out of respect for grieving families.
We're also learning new details about Chief Arredondo's active shooter training, showing he's had three training sessions total, the last taking place in December 2021.
[19:05:10]
And the Uvalde school district releasing a statement today about changes, saying that students and staff will not be returning to the Robb Elementary campus, and that they're working with agencies to help us identify improvements on all UCISD campuses.
New audio obtained by CNN affiliate KSAT plays a school district alert to parents about the shooting, telling them not to go to the campus.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There is an active shooter at Robb Elementary School. Law enforcement is on site. JIMENEZ: Today, more funerals for teacher Irma Garcia, and her
husband Jose, who died of a heart attack just days after his wife was gunned down.
We've been speaking to resident after resident here. A woman whose niece was killed. A local store employee whose cousin was killed. The fast food employee whose niece was killed. Another person who lives not too far from here grew up going to Robb Elementary, and then decades hears gunshots before calling 911. All of them were too heartbroken to go on camera, being that close to the story.
But one thing we heard from every single one of them is that this goes beyond this week. This is something that is going to be with them for the rest of their lives.
The community grieving, and frustrated, now with more services to come every day for the next week.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. Arredondo, I leave it to his conscience. Why didn't he do more? Why didn't he do more?
(END VIDEOTAPE)
JIMENEZ: And, again exactly what was done is what's under investigation. We followed up with the Texas Department of Public Safety on Arredondo's comments that he's been in contact with them every day, despite them saying yesterday that they haven't heard from him in days in regards to a follow-up interview request. Well, DPS is now referring all of these types of questions to the Uvalde County district attorney.
All of this is now happening within the backdrop of continuing funerals, continuing reminders of the gravity of the tragedy that unfolded here -- Erin.
BURNETT: Thank you.
And, as we were speaking that, we do have some breaking news coming out of Oklahoma, where police say multiple people have been injured.
Joe Johns is following the story for us in a shooting. We understand there could be multiple casualties. It's unclear.
What do we know right now as this is developing, Joe? Again, this is Tulsa.
JOE JOHNS, CNN SNEIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Erin, very limited information. What we do you now is that Tulsa police have tweeted out just a bit of information to get people at least some clarity at this stage. The first thing authorities say is that this began with what they say was a report of a man with a rifle and the locator they give their in the city of Tulsa is 61st and Yale Streets, and say that all roads are closed and they've asked people not to come into the area.
They've also indicated that they know there are multiple injuries, as a result of this, and potentially, they say, multiple casualties, and probably the only other information we have directly from the police department, from their Twitter page, is that they have set up a reunification site at a memorial high school there in Tulsa.
So, this is a continuing situation. It sounds extremely serious at this stage. Don't have a lot of details, but it is clear also from what the police are telling us, that the individual who is believed to have shown up there with a rifle and cause the situation is down, and now believed that. So those are the facts we start with this evening, out of Tulsa.
Back to you, Erin.
BURNETT: All right. Joe Johns, we'll be checking in with you, obviously, as the situation is unfolding there in Tulsa.
I want to bring now the former Houston police chief, Charles McClelland, into the conversation. And chief, just, horribly need to start talking about another shooting, which has just occurred in the past few moments, as we understand it, in Tulsa.
The other thing the police department there is saying that the officers are currently going through every room in the building, checking for additional threats, and obviously, at this point, we've been unable to determine the number of injuries, and they're saying, potentially, multiple casualties.
Chief, what's your reaction when you hear this? We're sitting here talking about this horrific tragedy in Texas, and this is going on and Tulsa as we speak.
CHARLES MCCLELLAND, FORMER HOUSTON POLICE CHIEF: Well, thank you for having me, Erin. First of all, until we decide to do something about gun violence, unfortunately, these things are going to continue to occur over and over again in different states and cities across America. So, we really, as a society and as a community have to get serious about gun violence.
[19:10:10]
BURNETT: And, you know, as I said, we're monitoring this and keeping up on the screen here, chief, as we're speaking. Obviously, massive police response there in Tulsa. As we are -- we understand the shooter has been -- is dead. We don't know how, but the shooter is dead, and we're awaiting information on injuries, and as they say, potentially multiple casualties.
So I want to keep this up, Chief, as we continue our conversation. I want to ask you about something in Uvalde. The new news that we have from an interview that the mayor gave from Uvalde to "The Washington Post". So, he says he was near the negotiator during the incident who is trying to reach the gunman. And in that situation, right, you would think the negotiator would know some crucial pieces of information.
According to the mayor, he didn't know. He did know that there are children in the room with the gunman at the time calling 911 and asking police to come in. The negotiator was not aware of that fact. Why do you make of that, Chief?
MCCLELLAND: Well, you know, from everything that I've heard, I can certainly understand if folks in that local community have little or no confidence in the police response, and the investigation. Seems like every single day, the fact seems to change, or something is modified.
Now, it's understandable if police officials, city officials, don't have the answer to questions. I think the public understands when you don't know, and you're trying to do an investigation to find out. But, it seems like a lot of finger-pointing is going on between local officials, state officials, and that undermines the confidence that the public will have in this investigation.
And it's not fair to the families that lost their children, their loved ones, it's not fair. They deserve accurate information. And I hope this is not the case, that you have local authorities and state officials trying to protect their own respective agencies, and point the finger at each other. And it may become that our only objective review or investigation has come from the Justice Department.
BURNETT: So, you know, as part of this, the Uvalde school district police chief, Pete Arredondo, right, he -- I don't know if you saw our piece at the beginning of the program, but our reporter Shimon Prokupecz spoke with him, and said, are you cooperating with the Texas Department of Public Safety? And he said, yes he has. He's speaking to them every day.
But they say he has not responded to repeated request for a follow up interview. He's just not responding. So again, you have two completely different versions here. It's very hard to know -- to have any confidence in it. He says he's cooperating, they say he isn't. Obviously, it would appear he isn't in that case, right? But what do you even make of that?
MCCLELLAND: Well, again, it's hard -- who do you believe?
BURNETT: Right.
MCCLELLAND: Do you believe the police chief, or do you believe the Texas Rangers? Now in this situation, both things could be true. He could be speaking with them every day. That doesn't mean that he's being cooperative and answering their questions, and giving them valid information.
So, but at this stage, I think the public -- they don't know who to believe. So the justice department needs to move in fast, and to do a thorough and objective investigation of everyone. They need to certainly review the Uvalde Independent School District's role, the city of Uvalde's police department's role, the Department of Public Safety's role, and let the chips fall where they may.
If someone made mistakes and made their own decision, then people have to take responsibility for that.
BURNETT: Chief, I appreciate your time. Thank you very much. MCCLELLAND: All right. Thank you so much for having me.
BURNETT: All right. Thank you. Chief McClelland, of course, who's formally from the Houston Police Department.
As we continue to monitor this breaking story out of Tulsa for you, right now, we're awaiting more from the Tulsa Police Department. As you can see that on the ground, as to what's situation this was, they say multiple injuries and potentially multiple casualties. We are waiting more from Tulsa.
We're going to take a break. On the other side, as we cover that story, we also get the latest on Ukraine, where Russia now occupies 80 percent of a crucial eastern city. My next guest with a sobering view on Ukraine's likelihood of winning back that territory.
Plus, Biden's surprising admission when it comes to what he knew about the baby formula shortage, and when he knew it.
And Johnny Depp's courtroom drama. Tonight, a verdict in the defamation trial between the actor and his ex-wife, Amber Heard.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:18:37]
BURNETT: We are following the breaking news out of Tulsa, Oklahoma, where officials are now reporting multiple people have been killed after that shooting at a hospital in Tulsa -- the St. Francis hospital, in Tulsa, Oklahoma.
Joe Johns is following the story for us. Joe, the situation is dynamic. We don't know what exactly will end up being. But we do hear multiple dead.
JOE JOHNS, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Right. We don't know the numbers. We do know that, according to a fire department official named Andy Little, there are multiple people dead at the scene in Tulsa, Oklahoma, as the investigation continues. We are also told, as reported earlier, that we understand that the shooter is down and believed dead.
Now, this is happening, we are told, in a place called that Natalie Medical Building, on the St. Frances Hospital Campus, and there, and Tulsa. As you can see, a tense situation as police continue to evacuate what's sounds like a very large building, potentially hundreds of people in need to be evacuated from that building before police can call the scene clear and secure. Of course, in a situation like this, which is so fluid, there's always a concern with authorities as to whether the person they believed to be the shooter is the only person and they need to worry about.
[19:20:04]
So, that's what we know at this stage. Erin, back to you. BURNETT: Right, right. And, of course, you know, as you point out, hundreds of people in that building. That's why there is still a lack of clarity about what's the scale of what we are talking about here.
I understand from local reporters, it is an outpatient surgery and breast center. Those are the types of medical things that could be happening there.
All right. Joe Johns, thank you very much.
I will say here, we are able to report -- our senior producer spoke to Tulsa Police Department. They are still going through all the floors in that building. They're unable to give a number. That's what they are doing right now. They say the active shooter is down. They will expect a press conference as we get more information, as we will continue to follow this story.
Also this hour, we are following developments in Ukraine. Russian forces are now in control of at least 80 percent of Severodonetsk, which is a key city in the eastern part of the country. That's according to a top regional official there who also says some Ukrainian troops have retreated.
And it comes as Russia accuses the U.S. of adding fuel to the fire, by announcing it will send Ukraine four high mobility rocket systems.
The U.S. sends this message to Putin.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
COLIN KAHL, UNDER SECRETARY OF DEFENSE FOR POLICY: The Russians can end this conflict anytime they want. If they are weary of escalation, all it takes is one man to say stop. And they can do it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Melissa Bell is out front in Zaporizhzhia, in Ukraine.
Melissa, so what we're seeing in Severodonetsk, look, it's a progress by the Russians. It may have been a long, slow, agonizing pace. But nonetheless, that is an asset. As city they wanted to occupy. And they've made progress in that regards. Putin clearly has no plans at all to stop this war.
MELISSA BELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: No plans at all to stop this war, Erin. And tonight, as far as Ukrainian armed forces are concerned, the upper hand, frankly, all along that front line.
Let's just start with that town of Severodonetsk, the subject of so much fierce fighting over the last couple weeks. Remember, there were some 15,000 civilians carrying the settlers of that city. Over the course of the last couple weeks, 80 percent of now fallen. Street to street combat going on even tonight.
Let's have a look at that map of the Donbas region. Let's have a look at the strategic importance of that city. You can see there, the two self-declared Moscow-backed separatist republics that have been there before the Russian invasion began. Look at all that territory in red to the north of there, to the south of there are now in Russian hands.
And I think if you pull back from that to take a further step back and look at all the territory in Russian hands, you see how vulnerable the easternmost positions of the part of the country still in Ukrainian hands are. What we've been seeing over the course of the day are weapons movements coming out from Crimea and we expect heading up toward those vulnerable parts of eastern Ukraine. And they mean to cut off what are some vulnerable supply routes.
So, worrying picture from the point of view of Ukrainian forces, where I am here in Zaporizhzhia, we are just north of that line that divides the Ukraine still in the hands of Kyiv, and the Ukraine now in the hands of Russian forces. We've seen in the villages within a 30 and 60 mile range being pounded by Russian artillery. That's why those weapons now being provided by Washington confirmed there by Secretary of State Blinken are likely to make such a difference to this war, to their fortunes along the front line, they're ability to pushback Russian forces.
The United Kingdom now announcing it will also be providing some of those missiles to try to hit that long artillery that's been used, Erin, as you know, to such devastating effect, these last few months, here in Ukraine.
BURNETT: Yeah. All right. Melissa Bell, thank you very much, reporting live from Zaporizhzhia tonight.
I want to go now to retired Air Force Colonel Cedric Leighton who is a member of the joint chiefs of staff, and Seth Jones, who is the director of the international security program at the Center for Strategic and International Studies.
So, Seth, you are just out with a new report, with the images, satellite imagery you are seeing here on the latest situation on the ground in Ukraine. What are you seeing?
SETH JONES: Well, we're seeing a couple of things, Erin. One is that we're seeing dug in Russian forces with main battle tanks, towed artillery, multiple launch rocket systems, and the issue is that -- I mean, it's going to be really tough over the long run for the Ukrainians to take back territory against dug-in Russian forces.
This is why discussion about HIMARS, apparently the U.S. is now going to allow MQ-1Cs, these are longer range and drones, to head to Ukraine as well. These kinds of weapons systems are going to be really important for offensive operations, to help the Ukrainians take back this territory because the Russians are advancing, as we just heard.
[19:25:02]
BURNETT: Right, course, advancing in a brutal anachronistic matter, but nonetheless, advancing.
And, Colonel, you know, I was speaking to a Ukrainian soldier today who had sort of rotated out for a couple days. They rest, right, and are now going back to the front lines. Incredibly eager as his entire group was to go back in, right? So, from that one tiny, tiny slice, right, the morale is going back in and ready, ready to go.
But that comes in the context of what President Zelenskyy is saying, 60 to 100 Ukrainian soldiers are dying every day in this war. Another 500 being wounded. Those numbers are stunning. And we've heard about them on the Russian side, but now this is on the Ukrainian side.
Colonel, how long can Ukraine continue to fight at this level with those types of losses?
COL. CEDRIC LEIGHTON (RET.), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Erin, that's a really difficult and -- question to answer. When you look at the way in which this is happening, I would say, at the outset, you know, it's very hard to make these estimates. I would say they can last about a month or two months, at most, before there starts to be a major drain on the Ukrainian forces. The Ukrainians have to be very careful not to lose their men at this point. It becomes really critical for their soldiers to be, in essence, conserved. For them to be moved back in every strategic retreat they can make at this point in order to fight another day.
BURNETT: So, Seth, when you heard Melissa talking about and the Russian sending equipment up from Crimea, this is the crucial thing when you talked about Mariupol, they were able to establish that connection between Crimea and the Donbas. They are now using it. You have satellite images of -- near Crimea, that shows the Russian forces entrenched in Ukraine. They got down there, they can move battle tanks, rocket launchers, self-propelled artillery, that's what you've actually pointed out here on the satellite images that you see.
What do you take away from it?
JONES: Well, that the Russians are here to stay. And they're not going to give up this area without a significant fight. We see digging of trenches, berms, I mean, what's not in there, but just as important, that we are still seeing with images, it is Russian flags, replacing Ukrainian buildings. We are seeing the Russians replace Ukrainian officials, government officials.
This is de facto Russian state building of areas they have conquered in Ukraine. So, this really is annexation without the Russians saying it explicitly yet. So, I don't think they're planning to leave in any way, shape or, form.
BURNETT: No, no. And, you know, back to the speech that Putin gave on the -- you know, the day before the invasion, this is -- this is what he said. He is now pushing for it.
Colonel Leighton, President Biden says the U.S. and response will send Ukraine a high mobility artillery rocket system, four of them. Now, originally, he had the U.S. wouldn't send Ukraine anything that could hit Russia. Now they are sort of trying to say, basically, not the long ones, but not the short ones, the in-between ones. It puts the U.S. in a rather bizarre situation, leading to official after official saying this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANTONY BLINKEN, SECRETARY OF STATE: The Ukrainians have given us assurances that they will not use the systems against targets on our territory.
KAHL: This assurance goes all the way to the top of the Ukrainian government, to include President Zelenskyy.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Cornell, what do you make of this? So, Ukraine is giving these assurances, promising they won't hit targets in Russia. Ukraine has been invaded with Russia. They will do whatever they need to do to push the Russians back. What do you even make of this situation?
LEIGHTON: Erin, I think this is one of those things where the political doublespeak gets to be quite a problem for the administration and for anybody who's dealing with this. So, the Ukrainians are going to do with a need to do. If they get these weapons, which they should be getting, they have every right to defend themselves, defending themselves means going after any weapon system that targets their country. If that weapon system happens to sit in Russia, they should go after that weapons system. That would be the military answer to that question.
BURNETT: Right, right. As we've seen, they've shown a willingness to go after a fuel depot, things that supply Russians. If you're giving them the tools to do it, promise not to do it giving the dire nature of their situation, it does seem to be a bit of doublespeak.
Thank you both so very much. I appreciate your time.
LEIGHTON: You bet.
JONES: Thanks.
BURNETT: And next, we are continuing to follow the breaking news out of Tulsa. Officials telling our affiliate now that they know at least four people are dead, including the gunman, after that shooting at a hospital. They are still going through room after room as we understand it, in that large building, that large wing of the St. Francis hospital, in Tulsa. We're going to bring you the very latest here as this story continues to develop this hour.
Plus, Jamie Diamond, the head of the largest bank in America says the United States is about to be hit by an economic hurricane. So, just how worried should Americans and the world be?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:33:51]
BURNETT: Tonight, you better buy brace yourself. That is the warning from JPMorgan Chase CEO Jamie Dimon, who says the country, the United States, is about to be hit by an economic hurricane. That's his word, driven by the war in Ukraine, interest rate hikes from the Fed, and, of course, a 40-year high and inflation.
It comes as the inflation crisis is hurting American savings. The personal savings right in the U.S. has fallen to a level not seen since the start of the great financial crisis in 2008.
OUTFRONT now, Liz Ann Sonders, chief investigations strategist to Charles Schwab.
And, Liz Ann, I know you've been talking about that particular issue on the savings rate, and I want to ask you about that. But I know you also believe we're in the midst of an economic storm. How bad could it get?
LIZ ANN SONDERS, CHIEF INVESTIGATIONS STRATEGIST, CHARLERS SCHWAB: So, whether or not it turns into a hurricane is yet to be seen, and they certainly are a lot of weather analogies out there. But you mentioned it, we're at 40-year high in inflation at a time when growth already slowed, such that it contracted in the first quarter. The Fed is in a pretty aggressive hiking mode in order to try to combat that inflation problem, and, of course, they're also starting to shrink a $9 trillion balance sheet.
So, we really haven't been in that combined set of circumstances here. The question is, can the fed do the job of tackling this problem by focusing on the demand side of the economy, because that's all they can really control. They can't ease the supply chain problems without it ultimately leading to a recession.
Now, I think the needle probably points a little more toward recession.
BURNETT: So, you know, you talk specifically about this issue of the collapse and personal shavings. This is so crucial, which caught my attention, you tweeted a graph and it showed the drop in American shavings to 4.4 percent of their income. You message, goodbye to the savings boom. And as you point out, the last time we saw this sort of a crisis, in savings, was at the beginning of the great recession.
This is crucial, right? This is showing, I suppose, on one level, that when you have a 40 year high in inflation, it eats away -- it eats away at earnings, it eats away at people's savings. It is having a very specific and serious impact.
SONDERS: It is, and I think the big debate right now is -- does the rate of savings matter, the 4.4 percent, Erin, as you said, or is it the stock of savings? And there still is a buildup in savings that came as a result of all the stimulus.
Unfortunately, I think it's the flow. It's the rate of change that is come down matters. But importantly, I also don't think this is 2008. Yes, the savings rate dropped at that point, but that was when we were in the midst of the bursting of the massive housing bubble, that because of leverage and poor lending practices, had the effect of taking down the entire global financial system with it. I think they're dislocations in the economy right now. We've already
seen a slowing in growth, and probably we'll continue to see this, but this is not a literal or figurative house of cards like it was the case in 2008. So I think that distinction is important.
BURNETT: All right. Liz Ann, thank you very much. I always appreciate speaking with you and it's nice to have you back.
SONDERS: Nice to see.
BURNETT: All right. Well, part of the reasons the savings rate is dropped, of course, is because people are spending more. The resorting to going to savings because the costs are surging. The average price of gas is something that Americans are confronted with every single day. As you pass gas stations, you fill up your car, you see it. It jumped five cents today, another record high of $4.67 a gallon. That's nationwide. God forbid you live in California.
And it's got the White House worried to the point that according to "Politico", chief of staff Ron Klain wakes up, and the first thing he does every day's check the price of gas, and laments that it is so visible to everybody, because they see gas stations and see the price stuck in the face.
James Carville is the lead strategist on Bill Clinton's 1992 presidential campaign.
So, James, here we are. Gas price is confronting Americans every single day. People are paying twice as much to fill their tanks as they were a year ago. You got Ron Klain laser focused on it as he should be.
If you are advising the White House, what would you tell them to do?
JAMES CARVILLE, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Well, you know, you make the point. I'm glad Ron does that every morning and it's pretty important number. I'll tell you who's not facing a recession, Exxon, Chevron, and Shell. And if anybody doesn't think that they're using this and leveraging this, I don't know what to say.
The parliament in the U.K. passed a windfall profits bill. The House has passed a windfall profits bill. One of the things we can do is tax these windfall profits and return it to consumers. I don't think Ron or President Biden or any buddy else can do a whole heck of a lot about the rising gas prices, but this is all not all-natural.
The system is being gained by these oil companies. They know it in the UK. The Democrats know it in the United States, and that bill has passed the House, and Senator Duckworth has it in the Senate. I hope they pass that and get people some needed relief.
BURNETT: Right. So, I understand what you're saying, and I get it from a political perspective, and I'm not saying that you're totally wrong at all. But it is also -- it's happening for a real reason, right? I mean, Russia has been able to give transfer payments to Russians, and put off some of the impact of the sanctions, because they're getting so much more money, right? The raw cost of the stuff is gone up.
CARVILLE: Right.
BURNETT: And that is at the core of this.
CARVILLE: It is, but -- again, don't discount people gaming it, that has something with it, and yes, Russia is -- you know, the high energy prices are certainly helping the autocrats in the Middle East a lot, and this is something that's happening.
But, you know, I think the president's pretty clear that his toolbox is pretty empty here. He can do some things, but one of the things he can there is try to get some money back in consumers hands. A lot of states are talking about doing that, and I think that's a good idea. But I -- of course, it's a big problem, if I was Ron Klain-- I would be looking at the gas prices when I get up first thing in the morning too. It's good we have somebody -- at least he's diligent on the watch.
BURNETT: Right, one thing President Biden said, I guess he spoke the truth, but I'm curious about your perspective as to the messaging of it, when you talk about all these hits coming to Americans, he says there's really not much he can do. Here's how he put it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The idea we're going to be able to, you know, click a switch, bring down the cost of gasoline, it's not likely in the near term. Nor is it with regard to food.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Is that the way he should be speaking about? It is aggressive enough, or do you think he gets it right?
CARVILLE: Well, I think it's pretty aggressive remarks today. He had the op-ed piece, and it was pretty specific. I think it was in "The Wall Street Journal", and he's telling people he has a plan.
Well, if inflation is 8 percent in November, we're going to lose a lot of seats. But you know what you've got a look at, Erin, is think about a horse race. And you have the CPI, and you have wage growth. Hopefully by October or so, wage growth will pull ahead of the CPI, and people feel some progress in the economy. And if they do, the president can point to the fact that in May, that he wrote a piece in "The Wall Street Journal", hardly a friendly venue, outlining some of the things he wanted to do.
So I mean, he's betting into the fact that there may be good news. Let's hold on to it. But that's the two numbers that I'm looking at. And I suspect that Ron Klain and a lot of people are looking at that CPI number and looking at wage growth numbers. We'll see some jobs numbers and wage growth numbers Friday, and, you know, I'll be up early and clicking on to see what's happened, like anybody else.
BURNETT: All right. James Carville, I always appreciate it. Thank you so much for taking the time.
CARVILLE: Thank you, Erin. You bet.
BURNETT: All right. And the White House tonight, also grappling with the ongoing baby formula shortage and the crisis there, struggling to explain why it was so woefully unprepared, right? When you look at who produces that, and all of sudden the factories shut down, babies need food, you know you have a problem. But apparently, they didn't.
Following a meeting with formula makers, President Biden said he didn't know that the Abbott plant would impact supplies in the way that he did.
Here's how he responded when pressed by our Kaitlan Collins.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I don't think anyone anticipated the impact of the shutdown of one facility.
KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Didn't the CEOs tell you they understood it would have a very big impact?
BIDEN: They did, but I didn't.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: They did, but I didn't.
Kaitlan Collins is OUTFRONT at the White House.
And, Kaitlan, a pretty stunning admission for the president of the United States to make. You know, the White House has said, right, but they've been working on the formula started since February, which means they knew when it was a problem -- but he did not. How did the president explain the timeline today?
COLLINS: Yeah, Erin, they said, of course, the president -- there had been this whole government approach that they've been taking since February when this plant was shuttered. But obviously, that whole government approach should not include President Biden because he was talking about this today. He had just been meeting with the top five baby formula manufacturers, talking about this crisis, and he was asking each of them individually if they understood what kind of an impact the closure of this plant back in mid February was going to have.
And, Erin, I was in the room there. We listened time and time again to several of them, they said yes, they did understand this would have a very big impact because, of course, the formula concentration here in the U.S. is so small. It's only a handful of manufacturers and retailers that do that and deal with the distribution. And so, we asked the president, when was it that he actually became aware of just how serious this shortage was going to be, how much it was affecting parents?
And this is what he told us.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BIDEN: I became aware of this problem sometime in -- after April -- in early April, by how intense it was. And so, we did everything in our power from that point on, and that's all I can tell you right now.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Of course, Erin, that's about six weeks after that plant had been shut. Executives said as soon as that plant was closed and shuttered, that was months after complaints had actually come forward about the plant. It was after, of course, lawmakers said there were too slow to respond to how that plant was handled and people should've seen what kinds of issues that would've caused when it was closed.
So that's a big question for the White House, is why nobody on the president senior staff informed him just how bad this shortage was earlier than early April. And, of course, now you've seen the White House taking the steps since then, but there is still big questions, because you still seeing shelves largely empty, and, of course, it's still an ongoing issue for the White House.
The president says now, they are putting the full force of the government behind this major problem.
BURNETT: Right, right, much later than it should've been. And I'm sure he wanted it -- but he said he didn't know.
All right, Kaitlan, thank you very much, reporting from the White House.
And next, we're continuing to following the breaking developments out of Tulsa. At this moment, police are confirming three people were killed on the campus of Saint Francis Hospital. The gunman additionally is dead. We're going to bring you the latest next as it develops here.
Plus, a jury finds both Johnny Depp and Amber Heard liable for defamation. Pretty incredible developments today and you'll see what the two are saying tonight.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:48:59]
BURNETT: We're following the breaking news out of Tulsa, Oklahoma, where police are confirming now that three people have been killed during a shooting at a hospital in Tulsa. The gunman is also dead. They were going room to room in a very large building, as part of a medical center. So, it's unclear exactly where they are in that process.
Joe Johns is following the story for us.
And, Joe, what are you learning now?
JOHN JOHNS, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: So, this is, we are told, the St. Francis Hospital campus, a building there, apparently a very large building there, Erin, bringing up today just what you said. Three people reported dead, according to authorities, four, if you include the shooter. We're also told by authorities that a person has been taken from the scene in critical condition. We do not know the disposition on that just yet.
We also know authorities are engaged in what they refer to as a slow evacuation of that very large building. Essentially going room to room to check to see the welfare of people and get them out of that building in an orderly fashion.
[19:50:04]
No other details from the authorities at this time. But the shooter is dead, the authorities say, and three people have been killed. One person reported in critical condition -- Erin.
BURNETT: All right. Joe Johns, thank you very much.
We do have Jayme Fowler now on the phone, who is a member of the city council in Tulsa.
And, Councilman, thank you very much for coming on to share what you do know here. I know the situation is still very much influx. But you have been being briefed. What did you learn so far?
JAYME FOWLER, TULSA CITY COUNCILOR (via telephone): Well, this is a building I'm very familiar with. This is a building adjacent to Saint France's hospital -- the building there at the St. Francis complex. To reconfirm what you just shared with the audience. Three people are known dead. The shooter is also dead. It looks like, from what we are getting, the shooter took his own life.
And, first and foremost, our thoughts and prayers go out to the families, the victims. It's a tragic thing. The police here have been trained and prepared. They actually had exercised, exercises in the riverside division yesterday on just such a situation.
BURNETT: Hopefully that helped save some lives today. Councilman, I don't know if you heard, Joe Johns was saying that in addition to the three people killed by the shooter, as we understand it, there is a person in critical condition. And I know the police department says there was multiple injuries. Do you know anything about the injured situation?
FOWLER: I do not. And I'm -- the Tulsa Police Department is doing the right thing. They kept everyone, bystanders, away from the scene. They've done a good job making sure the scene is safe and people are not in harm's way.
BURNETT: I should note that President Biden has now been briefed on the situation.
And, Councilman, do you have any knowledge from your briefings about what may have led to this shooting?
FOWLER: From what I understand is that the shooter had an issue with a specific physician. The shooter could not find this physician. And that elicited, you know, his behavior at the shootings.
BURNETT: And, of course, needless and terrible loss of life. Councilman Fowler, I appreciate your time. Thank you very much for sharing with us what you could. We do appreciate it. As we continue to follow this breaking story out of Tulsa.
We're going to take a break. On the other side, the legal victory for Johnny Depp. It was, obviously, a wild defamation trial against his ex-wife. The actors are both responding tonight.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:56:11]
BURNETT: Tonight, a verdict has been reached in the widely and closely watched defamation trial between actor Johnny Deep and ex- wife, Amber Heard. A seven-member jury finding both Depp and Heard were defamed. But Heard was ordered pay Depp $15 million and Depp was ordered to pay Heard $2 million in damages.
Jean Casarez has been following this case from the beginning and she's OUTFRONT.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JEAN CASAREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): A jury ruling in favor of Johnny Depp and his defamation trial against ex-wife Amber Heard, finding her liable on all three counts.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you find that Mr. Depp has proven all the elements of defamation? Answer, yes.
CASAREZ: The jury also ruling in favor of Heard on just one claim of her counter-suit.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you find that Ms. Heard has proven all the elements of defamation? Answer, yes.
CASAREZ: This decision coming after six weeks of a dramatic testimony, with the former couple facing off.
AMBER HEARD, ACTRESS: Nothing I did made him stop hitting me. Nothing.
JOHNNY DEPP, ACTOR: I have never, in my life, committed sexual battery, physical abuse.
CASAREZ: At the center of the trial, abuse allegations Heard made in a 2018 "Washington Post" op-ed. Though she never named Depp in the article, he sued his ex-wife for defamation, claiming in a $50 million suit that his career suffered as a result. Heard countersued Depp for $100 million.
The former couple met in 2009 while filming the movie, "Rum Diary".
DEPP: He wrote that when he was 25 years old.
CASAREZ: Both testified the relationship became violent and abusive overtime, including two incidents which took place in Australia, where the actor was filming the fifth "Pirates of the Caribbean" movie.
DEPP: I'm so sorry, were you still talking?
CASAREZ: Leading Heard to file a temporary restraining order against Depp in 2016.
DEPP: She threw the large bottle and it made contact and shattered everywhere. And then I looked down and realized that the tip of my finger had been severed.
HEARD: I felt this pressure, I felt this pressure. On my (INAUDIBLE) he was punching me.
CASAREZ: That testimony was not all he said/she said. With recordings of fights and photos of alleged injuries introduced as evidence.
HEARD: By this point in our relationship, we are both saying awful things to each other, screaming at each other.
CASAREZ: On the stand, Depp denied abusing Heard.
DEPP: I would never -- did I myself reach the point of striking Ms. Heard in any way. Nor have I ever struck any woman in my life.
CASAREZ: Witnesses for both Depp and Heard gave sometimes emotional testimony about what they saw and the former couple's counselor testified about their relationship.
LAUREL ANDERSON, DEPP AND HEARD'S CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: They engaged in what I saw as mutual abuse.
CASAREZ: Depp was not in court to hear the verdict. Instead he was performing in London, Monday night.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CASAREZ (on camera): And Amber Heard is saying tonight that she will appeal this verdict.
Erin, this was a very big win for Johnny Depp. He brought this action, he had the burden to show that he was defamed. It was all about the credibility of amber heard. She testified for hours. The jury watched everything. They decided.
BURNETT: They decided, right? And, of course, you know, his lost earnings, obviously, were significant. All right. Well, we'll see what happens from here, but so many had
watched that.
Jean Casarez, thank you so very much.
And thanks so much to all of you.
"AC360" begins now.
