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Erin Burnett Outfront
January 6 Panel Votes To Subpoena Trump; Supreme Court Rejects Trump's Request To Intervene In Docs Fight; Ukraine: Russia Attacked Kyiv Region With "Kamikaze" Drones; Shooter In Parkland School Massacre Avoids The Death Penalty; Elon Musk's Company Says It Can No Longer Fun Service Vital To Ukraine Fight As Musk Denies He Spoke To Putin About Ukraine. Aired 7-8p ET
Aired October 13, 2022 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[19:00:30]
ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST: OUTFRONT next, the January 6th Committee subpoenas former President Donald Trump, as the committee shows never before seen footage of the leaders of Congress scrambling for help on the day of the insurrection.
And Russia's brutal revenge on Ukraine on tonight, now using kamikaze drones from Iran. They are cheap and deadly. We are live in Kyiv and Moscow tonight.
Plus, life without parole for the gunman in the Parkland school massacre. Fred Guttenberg, whose daughter was killed in the shooting, says the jury failed him and other victims' families today. He's my guest.
Let's go OUTFRONT.
And good evening. I'm Erin Burnett.
OUTFRONT tonight, Trump subpoenaed. The January 6 Select Committee voting to subpoena the former president, Donald J Trump, for his role in the insurrection.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. BENNIE THOMPSON (D-MS): He must be accountable. He is required to answer for his actions. He is required to answer to those police officers who put their lives and bodies on the line to defend our democracy. He is required to answer to those millions of Americans who votes he wanted to throw out as part of his scheme to remain in power.
So it is our obligation to seek Donald Trump's testimony.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: It is a major move at this 11th hour, one that sets up a showdown between the committee and the former president. And it comes as tonight, we are seeing new video of congressional leaders scrambling to secure the Capitol as it was being ransacked by Trump supporters. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. NANCY PELOSI (D-CA): We have got to get -- finish the proceedings, or else they will have a complete victory.
(CHANTING)
SEN. CHUCK SCHUMER (D-NY): I'm going to call the effin' secretary of DOD.
We have some senators who are still in their hideaways. They need massive personnel now. Can you get the Maryland National Guard to come too?
PELOSI: But the fact is, on any given day, they're breaking the law in many different ways. And quite frankly, much of it at the instigation of the president of the United States. And now, if e could at least somebody --
SCHUMER: Yeah, why don't you get the president to tell them to leave the Capitol, Mr. Attorney General, in your law enforcement responsibility?
PELOSI: But what we left the conversation with, cause he said he had the impression from Mitch that Mitch wants to get everybody back to do it there.
SCHUMER: Yes.
PELOSI: I said that, well, we're getting a counterpoint that is -- that could take time to clean up the poo poo that they're making all over the -- literally and figuratively in the Capitol and that it may take days to get back.
MIKE PENCE, THEN-VICE PRESIDENT (via telephone): Madam Speaker, I'm at the Capitol building. I'm literally standing with the U.S. Capitol police. He just informed me what you will hear through official channels, Paul Irving, your sergeant at arms, will inform you that their best information is that they believe that the House and the Senate will be able to reconvene in roughly an hour.
SCHUMER: Good news.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BURNETT: Manu Raju is OUTFRONT live on Capitol.
And Manu, I know that you just spoke with the Committee Chairman Bennie Thompson who we play just a moment ago talking about that subpoena. What did he tell you?
MANU RAJU, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, I asked him about how they would deal with the subpoena to Donald Trump if Trump, in fact, decides to fight this, and whether or not they would be willing to go to court. He would not go that far, say what they would do if Donald Trump decides to defy this congressional subpoena. When I asked him if he actually expected Trump to appear before the committee, he said, quote, ask Donald Trump.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
RAJU (voice-over): The January 6 committee revealing new evidence showing Trump planned all along to try and stay in office.
REP. LIZ CHENEY (R-WY): President Trump had a premeditated plan to declare that the election was fraudulent and stolen before Election Day, before he knew the election results.
ROGER STONE, TRUMP ALLY: The key thing to do is claim victory.
Let's get right to the violence.
STEVE BANNON, FORMER TRUMP AIDE: If Biden is winning, Trump is going to do some crazy (EXPLETIVE DELETED).
RAJU: Evan drafting a prepared election day statement days before votes were cast, declaring that Trump had won. But while Trump privately admitted to some that he lost, he continued to fight, becoming enraged when the Supreme Court threw out a Republican effort to overturn the election, telling his chief of staff Mark Meadows that something else needed to be done to stay in power.
CASSIDY HUTCHINSON, FORMER MARK MEADOWS AIDE: I don't want people to know we lost, Mark. This is embarrassing. Figure it out. We need to figure it out.
[19:05:01]
RAJU: Trump began pushing the bogus notion that voting machines switched votes from Trump to Biden, even something his own advisors said had no basis in truth.
BILL BARR, FORMER ATTORNEY GENERAL: I went into this and would, you know, tell him how crazy some of these allegations were. There was never an indication of interest in what the actual facts were.
RAJU: And the committee showing deposition from witnesses describing Trump's inaction.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He's watching TV.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's my understanding he was watching television.
RAJU: All while playing new video of lawmakers running for shelter for violent rioters while trying to keep Congress from certifying the 2020 election for Joe Biden.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Apparently, everybody on the floor is putting on tear gas masks.
SCHUMER: I'm going to call up the effin' secretary of DOD.
PELOSI: I have something to say, Mr. Secretary. I'm going to call the mayor of Washington, D.C. right now.
Just breaking windows and doing all -- they said somebody was shot. It's just horrendous, and all at the instigation of the president of the United States.
SCHUMER: You know, why don't you get the president to tell them to leave the Capitol, Mr. Attorney General, in your law enforcement responsibility?
RAJU: New messages revealed by the committee showing how the U.S. Secret Service was well aware of the violent rhetoric in the days leading up to January 6.
REP. ADAM SCHIFF (D-CA): In this email, an agent received a report noting a lot of violent rhetoric on Parler directed at government people and entities, including Secret Service protectees. One of these protectees was Vice President Pence.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Every single (EXPLETIVE DELETED) in there is a traitor. Every single one.
SCHIFF: They are moving to the Capitol after the POTUS speech.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
RAJU (on camera): Now, Trump responded to the subpoena news on his social media page and criticized the committee, called it, quote, unselect and said the committee was a, quote, a total bust. He also said, why did they wait until the very end in the final moments of their last hearing to issue the subpoena?
Now, this comes as the committee says it plans to investigate allegations of potential obstruction to deny witness testimony before the committee. And Trump himself has urged some of his allies to invoke privilege, to deny the committee some of the key information it has sought, which is one reason why the lawmakers said they decided to issue that subpoena today.
BURNETT: All right. Thank you very much, Manu.
I want to go to Norm Eisen now, counsel to House Democrats during Trump's first impeachment trial and Obama White House ethics czar, along with John Miller, our chief law enforcement and intelligence analyst, and Stephanie Grisham, former Trump White House press secretary, who resigned from the administration on January 6.
John, you're next to me, let me start with you. Do you think the committee made a case today? And this was one -- in the court of public opinion, something that they needed to do, separate from criminal investigations going on in the DOJ and elsewhere. Did they make a case that Trump himself committed criminal actions?
JOHN MILLER, CNN CHIEF LAW ENFORCEMENT AND INTELLIGENCE ANALYST: Well, they certainly are building towards that, because you can see they constructed it the way you would construct a case against any other leader who wanted to be insulated from those actions, a mob boss, a cartel chief, which is, how did they build today?
They said, well, the Proud Boys were out there. Who were the Proud Boys reporting to? Roger stone. There's telephone records.
The Oath Keepers were out there. Who were they reporting to? Roger Stone. The head of the Proud Boys visited the White House parenthetically. What they didn't say is he claims he went on the holiday tour like anybody else.
Somebody will have to ask how a guy with multiple felony convictions got on holiday tour after they ran his background. But they were building that case that there were people on the ground who were answering to people who answered to Trump.
BURNETT: Right. The question is, will that be enough? Now, Norm, then they come out today and they do this vote. And they're going to -- they want Trump to testify.
Trump is out there saying, why did the unselect committee ask me to testify months ago -- why didn't they? Why did they wait until the end?
OK, that is a question because people have been asking them for months. And actually, a lot of people thought they were done these hearings, and then they added another one. They're still continuing to make their case.
Why did they wait until now? What's the strategy?
NORMAN EISEN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Well, Erin, one thing the committee has been masterful at -- you referred to this when you asked John the question is making the case to the American people. This was the last bombshell. It's not unusual to wait until you've gathered evidence from others. You work -- it's classic law enforcement.
BURNETT: Yep.
EISEN: John's on the law enforcement side. I've been on the defense side. You work your way up the pyramid.
So, I think there is -- it's both good drama, good stagecraft, but it is good law practice as well.
BURNETT: Which is interesting, because, Stephanie, there's the expectation that Trump will fight this or not do it.
[09:10:02]
I mean, you know him well.
Do you think there's any chance that he actually agrees to do this?
STEPHANIE GRISHAM, FORMER TRUMP WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: So, I think that he won't be able to resist the thought of going in front of the committee and defending himself. You know, he always would say to me and to everyone else, I'm my own best spokesperson, you know? And he thinks that as a narcissist that everything he says is right and beautiful and perfect, right? Perfect phone calls.
I think he's going to string the committee along. I wouldn't be surprised at all if he tries to negotiate with them, maybe to get -- make sure it's in primetime for ratings, make them allow him to show some of his bogus proof that the election was stolen. That wouldn't surprise me at all. Then when he doesn't get his way, of course, he will put out on his social media that they wouldn't cooperate, he tried.
So, if I had to predict or guess, that would be my thought.
BURNETT: Well, and, of course, there's a risk in that theater for them as well. Maybe that's why they waited, John, until this point. They also did put some of that video that we haven't seen before of the Capitol Hill leaders. You hear -- you see Pelosi and Schumer -- let me just play a bit of that again.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We did go back into session, but now, apparently, everybody on the floor is putting on tear gas masks to prepare for a breach. I'm trying to get more information.
PELOSI: They're putting on their --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Tear gas mask.
PELOSI: Do you believe this? Do you believe this?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I can't.
SCHUMER: I'm going to call up the effin' secretary of DOD.
We have some senators who are still in their hideaways. They need massive personnel now, can you get the Maryland National Guard to come too?
PELOSI: Hi, Governor. This is Nancy. Governor, I don't know if you have been approached about the Virginia National Guard. Mr. Hoyer was speaking to Governor Hogan, but I still think you probably need the okay of the federal government in order to come in to another jurisdiction. Thank you.
Oh my gosh. They're just breaking windows.
SCHUMER: You know, why don't you get the president to tell them to leave the Capitol, Mr. Attorney General, in your law enforcement responsibility? A public statement they should all leave.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: And Trump's response tonight, why didn't Pelosi call out the troops before January 6, which I strongly recommended that she do? Of course, testimony shows that he did not do on that day, despite repeatedly being asked. What's your reaction to this when you hear that? MILLER: You know, Steve Sund, the former capitol police chief, sat
down with the sergeant at arms of both houses and said, I would like the National Guard there. On January 3rd, he got an intelligence report from his own intelligence people saying this was going to be bad. And the different between this and prior demonstrations was that not the counterprotesters fighting with each other but Congress itself would be the target.
And they were -- what he was told was, we'll reach out to the National Guard and tell them just to be on standby. The National Guard says, we don't do standby. You either call us out or we don't, because it takes them a couple of days to get there.
In this case, they got there by that night. But by then, they had to call every police department in the region just to get the building back.
BURNETT: You know, one of the interesting things about all of this -- and all the investigations, the January 6 Committee, the DOJ, what you are seeing in Georgia was whether Trump ever told anybody specifically that he knew he lost the election, right? That he didn't in some deluded insanity actually think he won and therefore this is justified.
Bu, today, the committee showed something different. He explicitly told people that he knew that he lost the election. Let me play it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GENERAL MARK MILLEY, CHAIRMAN OF THE JOINT CHIEF OF STAFF: So, we're in the oval and there's a discussion going on. And the president says, I think -- it could have been Pompeo. But he says words to the effect of, yeah, we lost, we need to let that issue go to the next guy, being President Biden.
ALYSSA FARAH, FORMER WHITE HOUSE COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR: I remember maybe a week after the election was called, I popped into the oval just to give the president the headlines and see how he was doing. He was looking at the TV and he said, you can believe I lost to this f'ing guy?
CASSIDY HUTCHINSON, FORMER AIDE TO MARK MEADOWS: Mark raised it with me on the 18th. Following that conversation, driving back to the White House, I said, does the president think he lost? And he said, you know, a lot of times he will tell me he lost but he wants to keep fighting it. He thinks there might be enough to overturn the election, but he pretty much acknowledged that he's lost.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: I mean, Stephanie, this is all really interesting and crucial, right? And Meadows there at the end, a lot of times he will tell me that he lost, right? Those are conversations that would have happened between the president of the United States to Mark Meadows. This is -- it seems extremely significant that he said to multiple people that he lost. GRISHAM: It does. I agree with that. I want to note, I think they did
a great job today in the committee of showing premeditation, of saying, you know, no matter what, I won.
[19:15:07]
But that struck and rung very true to me. I mean, you could go back through our administration and look at many examples. You know, COVID -- he knew COVID was serious, but then he chose to say it wasn't.
Or that silly hurricane map where he drew where the path was. Everybody knew that that's not where the path was, but he drew it, and that was then true.
So, it didn't surprise me. It didn't surprise me to hear that everybody around him at the White House knew that he had lost. But it also didn't surprise me to hear people were tiptoeing around him and letting him throw his fits and say that he won anyway.
That's truly what is scary and one of my biggest regrets about the administration is that we enabled this man. Now look where it left us.
BURNETT: It makes the point, which legally you may or may not have needed to do, but to say that when Trump asked for one more vote, it wasn't because he thought he fairly won the vote. He knew he didn't win the vote. He was trying to get it anyway. He was trying to subvert democracy. We've heard a lot about Meadows. We haven't heard from him. He is the crucial person we have not heard from.
How important would he be at this point?
NORMAN EISEN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Meadows is critically important, because he can give you -- you know, we had double hearsay from Cassidy Hutchinson repeating what meadows heard from Trump. Meadows can give you the direct evidence against Trump. I do think that evidence has mounted.
As you point out, Erin, in Florida when he told Raffensperger -- we heard that tape today. I just want you to find 11,780 votes. After today, nobody can believe any longer that he thought he had those votes. So, Meadows is very -- is a very important witness.
BURNETT: All right. Thank you all very much.
And next, the Supreme Court rejecting Trump's request to get involved in the Mar-a-Lago documents case. Trump's former White House attorney Ty Cobb will be with me next.
Plus, what's quickly becoming Russia's new weapon of choice, cheap, self-detonating, unmanned, deadly, causing destruction across Ukraine.
And a CNN exclusive tonight. Elon musk's satellite Internet service Starlink, you heard a lot about this, right, that crucial communications tool for Ukraine's military could be pulled from Ukraine. This on the heels of Musk pushing a pro-Putin peace proposal. Is it a coincidence? (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:21:03]
BURNETT: New tonight, a major blow for Donald Trump in the Mar-a-Lago classified documents investigation. The Supreme Court rejecting an emergency request from the former president to intervene and reverse a federal appeals court ruling, which could have let the special master and team Trump review about 100 documents marked "classified".
Our senior justice correspondent Evan Perez is OUTFRONT.
And, Evan, you know, this is the Supreme Court, right? You've got Trump's picks on there, too. This is a clear ruling. What does it mean for Trump?
EVAN PEREZ, CNN SENIOR JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Erin. No noted dissents in this very brief order from the Supreme Court. And, really, look, if they had intervened in this case, it would have been extraordinary, right? Just as extraordinary as the initial ruling from the district judge in Palm Beach who set off, you know, a little chaos in this investigation.
The Justice Department now is free to conduct their investigation. We know that they are using these documents, bringing witnesses to talk to investigators. So, their work is going to continue unimpeded.
And, keep in mind, there's still a separate appeal still going on before the 11th circuit court of appeals in Atlanta. The Justice Department is set to respond to that tomorrow, to file documents tomorrow, explaining why they believe the entire ruling from Judge Aileen Cannon down in Palm Beach should be set aside, Erin.
BURNETT: All right. As you point out, no known dissent.
Now, there's also big news tonight, Evan, in the federal grand jury investigation into January 6. A person familiar confirming that Marc Short, who was, of course, the chief of staff to the then vice president on that day testified before the grand jury for the second time today. What else do you know about that?
PEREZ: What's significant about this, Erin, is that he was compelled to testify. This is the second time he's appeared before the grand jury. This was a grand jury, by the way, that is investigating the effort to impede the transfer of power. It's led by prosecutor Tom Wyndham.
And our team at the courthouse saw Marc Short, saw Kash Patel, by the way, was also there today, also believed testifying -- or providing some kind of testimony in this same matter. What's interesting about this, Erin, is that we know as we previously reported behind the scenes, behind closed doors has been a secret court fight with Trump trying to prevent people like Marc Short from providing certain testimony, because he believes it's shielded by executive privilege. It appears that at some point here, a judge has finally ordered Marc Short to respond to some questions that he had earlier refused to answer, Erin.
BURNETT: It's significant it's happening now. It obviously continues. Thanks so much, Evan.
BURNETT: Let's go now to Ty Cobb, he is the former White House lawyer for then President Trump.
So, Ty, it's always good to see you. And, last week, I want to be clear, you told me Trump going to the Supreme Court was an error. You predicted that the justices would not, your words, waste a nanosecond getting involved in this and you were proven absolutely right.
So, what message does this send, Trump?
TY COBB, FORMER WHITE HOUSE LAWYER: Well, I think it sends a message to Trump that, you know, just because he put three people on the court doesn't mean the justice goes out the window. This was the appropriate ruling. There was a nuance jurisdictional argument largely invented by the Trump team, not consistent with the governing law that would allow jurisdiction over anything -- to the 11th circuit over anything related to the injunction that Judge Cannon put forth.
It was a very simple issue where you have the 11th circuit on an expedited basis moving forward. You've got the -- that appeal will be heard before the deadline for the special master to release all the documents.
[19:25:02]
You know, there's just no reason for the Supreme Court to participate at this stage.
BURNETT: So that is on that front. What about also the Marc Short? And that's really -- obviously, the Department of Justice criminal investigation. Marc Short, chief of staff to then Vice President Mike Pence. He was there with him on January 6. He goes back today for the second time before the grand jury investigating January 6.
What do you think that means for Trump? Obviously, Short was compelled to come back and answer more questions.
COBB: Well, I don't think that's good for Trump. I would like -- to the extent there's an edge here that might negatively reflect on Marc, I'd like to dispel that, just because it appeared the first time that he went forward, there was an understanding with the Justice Department that he was going to refuse to answer certain questions because of this issue. I think Evan is right that that issue was subsequently raised with the judge and the judge directed him and frankly in a way that protects him from any claims from Trump later on that he violated executive privilege to go ahead and answer, because Marc is a very thoughtful -- you know him.
BURNETT: Yes, I do.
COBB: He is a straightforward, straight shooter, thoughtful guy. He has no interests here other than justice, as he demonstrated by faithfully and well representing the vice president through these difficult moments, particularly on January 6 and in the lead up there to.
BURNETT: So, you talk about how important he is. I want to ask you more about Mark Meadows. We have heard nothing from him recently. I want to play the testimony that the January 6 committee aired today. It's Cassidy Hutchinson. She's talking about a conversation she had with her boss who, of course, was the chief of staff, mark meadows, about Trump's efforts to overturn the election in Georgia.
Here's what she said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CASSIDY HUTCHINSON, FORMER WHITE HOUSE AIDE: Mark, you can't possibly think we're going to pull this off. That call is crazy. And he looked at me and shaking his head and said, no, Cass, he knows it's over. He knows he lost, but we're going to keep trying.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: All right. This is -- this is about Georgia, right? The call she's referring to is the 45-minute call with Brad Raffensperger where Trump is saying I need 11,780 votes, one more than he lost by.
Meadows, according to Cassidy Hutchinson, is able to say that Trump knew he lost, directionally knew he lost, knew this was all bogus and knew everything he was doing was wrong. There's a lot of talk about Meadows and how he himself is the subject of a criminal investigation in Georgia.
But you don't think he should be worried right now. Why not?
COBB: So, I believe in my former prosecutor, former defense attorney heart of hearts that Meadows is likely cooperating, either pursuant to a formal agreement or pursuant to an understanding with the Justice Department that his cooperation will inure to his benefit somehow, whether that's totally formalized yet and the terms are specific, I have no knowledge. But I do think it was telling today that nobody on the committee even mentioned or was whining about Meadows, that Meadows has cooperated with DOJ and as we know he produced all his records to the January 6th Committee before he stopped cooperating with them.
I think Meadows is a central witness. Everything touches him. I think this was one of the better veins mined today by the committee, because it does highlight the fact that Trump knew he lost. It does highlight the fact that there's evidence of that and coupled with some of Attorney General Barr's testimony and others, I think that point was made pretty clearly today. And I thought that was effective.
I thought it was more effective than Roger Stone/Proud Boys thing where you have to connect dots that don't quite connect. I think on the issue of Trump's awareness of the fact that he lost and the efforts that he was devoted to even in advance of losing, of saying he was going to win, I think those were very effective points made today by the committee.
BURNETT: Ty Cobb, thank you.
COBB: Thank you, Erin.
BURNETT: And, next, small, cheap and incredibly deadly. Russians are now using kamikaze drones made by Iran on Ukrainian civilians.
[19:30:02]
And outrage from victims' families after a jury recommends life without parole for the Parkland school shooter, not death. Fred Guttenberg, whose daughter was killed in the attack, is my guest.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BURNETT: Tonight, at least three people are dead, including an 11- year-old child after Russia, quote, massively shelled a residential building in Mykolaiv, according to Ukrainian officials. It comes as Russia unleashes air attacks across Ukraine. This is the fourth straight day of those.
President Zelenskyy tonight pleading for more air defense capabilities to combat the Russian blitz.
Fred Pleitgen is OUTFRONT looking at a drone that Russia is now increasingly relying on day after day to attack Ukraine.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice- over): Early Thursday morning, an attack on a town west of the Ukrainian capital. Russia continues its bombardment of Ukraine's key infrastructure.
Across the country, scenes like this in central Ukraine are a common sight. Wreckages of power plants. The tactic is familiar, the weapon, until recently, was not.
A kamikaze drone seen here after an attack on the other side of the country in Kharkiv.
[19:35:04]
Cheap, self-detonating and unmanned, they are a new weapon in Russia's war on Ukraine. The markings say Geran-2, but this is no Russian-made weapon. It's name IS Shahed, designed and manufactured in Iran. Known as a loitering munition, it can circle a target and the lightweight air frame can travel long distances.
The U.S. government says a Russian delegation travelled to Iran in June to inspect the drones seen here obtained by CNN.
In recent weeks, Russia has stepped up its use of the drones. Evidence posted on Ukrainian social media on a near daily basis. SERHIY BRATCHUK, SPOKESPERSON FOR THE ODESA REGIONAL ADMINISTRASTION
(through translator): The enemy is trying to save up on cruise missiles, various caliber types. These Shaheds are, firstly, much cheaper, they can be used more frequently and they work in pairs.
PLEITGEN: Ukraine, too, uses kamikaze zones like the smaller U.S. manufactured switchblade. There is no evidence to suggest Ukraine has used the weapon against anything but military targets.
Ukraine's air defense has been fairly successful in downing Russia's drones. But the fact they are so cheap has the Ukrainians worried and plays a big part in their push this week for more Western help with air defense.
Ukraine's President Zelenskyy says Russia has ordered 2,400 kamikaze zones from Iran. Officials fear that as Russia increasingly targets population centers, kamikaze drones are a growing part of the arsenal.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PLEITGEN: And, Erin, the Ukrainians say the existence of the drones and the fact they are being used so often on the battlefield, including around Kyiv, it shows how they need the western air defense systems. In fact, the president of the country, he told European lawmakers today that the ooh Ukrainians have 10 percent of the capabilities that they need. We know the U.S. is trying to get additional systems here to Ukraine as fast at possible. Some European countries have pledged some as well.
And today, NATO has also pledged specifically anti-drone equipment because that threat is so big, Erin.
BURNETT: All right. Thank you very much, Fred, from Kyiv.
And I want to bring in Matthew Chance now, our senior international correspondent. He joins me from Moscow tonight.
And, Matthew, it's pretty stunning when you hear this. Thousands of these being ordered. What more can you tell us about this now extremely crucial and growing relationship between Russia and Iran?
MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, that relationship has been pretty longstanding, and actually, stretches back into the Soviet Union. It has been consolidated over the past couple of decades because Russia has been supportive of Iran when it comes to developing its nuclear program. It's contracted to built nuclear reactors across the country. There's been a lot of exchange of technology in that regard.
And, then, of course, you know, Russia and Iran effectively fought side by side in Syria and continue to do so, backing the government of Bashar Assad against the rebels in that country. And so, they have been very close in military terms as well.
So, in a situation where Russia is very isolated in the world, as evidenced by the U.N. General Assembly vote in which 143 countries voted for Russia to lift its annexation of Ukrainian areas, it's not surprising that it's still very, very close to Iran.
BURNETT: So, one thing though in this is -- you heard the Ukrainian government official speaking there. Russia has used a lot of its cruise missiles. They have used a lot of their arsenal. Their tanks have been massively destroyed, right? Their ammunition -- there's been reports that they are struggling to replenish any of this. The drones, perhaps, are filling that gap.
Is that part of what's happening here, that Putin's arsenal is so depleted, this is all he can afford and deliver?
CHANCE: I think it's part of it. Look, we have seen plenty of evidence that Russia may be running low of ballistic missiles. They are very costly to build. Of course, they cost millions of dollars each time Russia constructs a cruise missile. They are heavily dependent on Western technology, circuit boards, and things like that, which have become short in supply because of the sanctions that have been imposed against Russia.
And so, yes, Russia still wants to maintain that pace of strikes against various targets inside Ukraine. So, one way of doing that is with these relatively cheap Iranian drones, which can keep on striking into the Ukrainian heartland and making their military presence felt, Erin.
BURNETT: All right. Matthew Chance, thank you very much.
[19:40:01]
Matthew is live in Moscow tonight.
And next, a jury recommending a life sentence without parole for the gunman who killed 14 students and 3 school staffers in Parkland. For the victims' families, it is not enough. I will ask Fred Guttenberg who lost his daughter in the massacre why.
And a CNN exclusive tonight, Elon Musk's company SpaceX providing satellite internet that's been absolutely crucial for Ukrainian troops on the ground. Without it, this war would not be going the way it is. Now, they want the Pentagon to pick up the tab. It comes with reports Musk has been in touch with Putin himself.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BURNETT: Tonight, after almost five years, a verdict for the gunman who killed 14 students and 3 school staff members in Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School in Parkland, Florida. The jury deciding against the death penalty for the 24-year-old killer, Nikolas Cruz, instead recommending life without the possibility of parole.
OUTFRONT now, Fred Guttenberg, his daughter Jaime was one of the 17 killed in the horrific attack. She was 14 years old.
And, Fred, almost five years, you have waited. And today, as that verdict was read, we could see your face, just the deep breath you take, that pain and shock that went through -- across your face. [19:45:01]
What was going through your mind?
FRED GUTTENBERG, FATHER OF JAIME GUTTENBERG, STUDENT KILLED IN FLORIDA SCHOOL SHOOTING: You know, Erin, the fact that there were 17 victims and no matter what happened today, for me and for the others, we still have to visit those we love in a cemetery because of a system that failed that allowed a murderer to get the means to commit this murder, to plan this murder.
And it is amazing to me -- what was going through my mind is how, again, things failed. Because the state proved its case. Every aggravator, they proved, and the jury agreed. The state proved its case. Not only is he evil and a murderer, he is still sitting in his cell thinking of people he wants to kill. And so, knowing all of that, knowing that if ever in this country there was a death penalty case that was justified, it was this one. There was a juror who may have, for whatever reason, not been honest to get on this jury, that resulted in this outcome, I'm horrified.
You know, listen, nothing changes for my wife and I and my son. Jaime is still going to be dead. But this is going to shock the conscience of a lot of people. I wanted the murderer to die as well for what he did. And, listen, he is going to go to prison. I suspect it will happen there.
But I did want to hear that the death sentence was going to be a part of his reality going forward. I'm just devastated that it wasn't.
BURNETT: You know, you -- there were three jurors, we understand, that voted against the death penalty. It had to be unanimous.
GUTTENBERG: Yeah.
BURNETT: One of them -- the foreman told one of our affiliates that one of the jurors was a hard no because of mitigating factors is the words they used around mental health. The defense claimed Cruz's mother abused drugs and alcohol while pregnant, that he was poisoned in the womb. They talked about personality disorders.
That was the argument they made. And, apparently, with three jurors it held sway. What's your reaction when you hear those arguments and that those are what tipped the jury?
GUTTENBERG: You know, I will say this. It sounds like there was one who was a hard no. The other jurors accused of being a no from the day she got there. Two others ultimately changed to join her. I suspect had she not been a hard no, this would are been unanimous.
But that said, I sat through every day of that trial with that jury. The defense did not prove the mitigating factors. I also would say, there are lots of people in this country with mental health issues that don't turn into mass murderers.
BURNETT: That's right. GUTTENBERG: That don't plan methodically the way this person planned.
The defense attorneys I think were probably shocked today also because they knew that their own witnesses fell apart under cross examination. So I'm not really sure, ultimately, how the jury came to this position. They all agreed that every aggravator was proved. This person should have been sentenced to death.
The crazy thing, Erin, is his own defense attorney in her closing argument, Attorney McNeill, she actually said, if you send him to prison, he will die there of natural causes or under some other cause. Literally telling the jury, listen, send him to prison because someone will kill him there.
It was the most bizarre thing I ever heard. But even they feel that way about him. I was shocked.
BURNETT: The judge is going to allow time for more victim testimony at the sentencing hearing, which I understand is about two weeks. I know and your wife, who have gone through this unspeakable agony spoke in August in court about this and your family, your son Jesse, who struggles every day with the loss of his sister and what happened that day.
Is there anything more that you want to say or that you think is important to say that you're going to choose to speak out again to the judge?
[19:50:07]
GUTTENBERG: There is. What people need to know about the victim impact statements that we gave, they all had to be vetted by the attorneys. Approved by both sides.
So what we said had to meet all sorts of legal criteria. It wasn't everything we wanted to say. It wasn't the extent of how we feel.
At the sentencing hearing, we will get to say whatever we want, including discussing how we feel now about this verdict. I have a lot more I'd like to say. I have a lot more I'd like to say directly to the killer. I couldn't -- I couldn't refer to the killer as a killer, by the way, in my impact statement before.
I couldn't refer to his murder. I couldn't talk about how he planned the murder. I couldn't say any of those things. We were prohibited from them. We're not anymore. And we will now get to tell him exactly how we feel about him.
BURNETT: Fred, thank you. I'm so sorry.
GUTTENBERG: Thank you, Erin.
BURNETT: And next, the CNN exclusive, Elon Musk's company SpaceX says it can no longer pay for the crucial satellite services used by Ukrainian troops on the ground. This comes amidst reports Musk spoke with Putin himself. And an update on the story we've been following closely for you, the
extraordinary scenes in China as tensions over Xi Jinping's COVID lockdowns are reaching a breaking point.
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BURNETT: Tonight, a CNN exclusive. Elon Musk's SpaceX says it's running out of money to run the crucial satellite service that Ukrainian troops depend on daily in the battlefield. This comes amidst reports that Musk recently spoke to Vladimir Putin about the war. That is a report that Musk deny denies.
Alex Marquardt is OUTFRONT.
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ALEX MARQUARDT, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT (voice- over): In Ukraine's fight to push out Russian invader, one of the most critical pieces of technology doesn't fire rockets or bullets. It's small, easy to use satellite terminals call Starlink, made by SpaceX, the rocket and satellite company founded by Elon Musk. According to SpaceX, there are around 20,000 Starlink terminals in Ukraine, and they've been vital for soldiers' communication, flying drones, and artillery targeting.
SETH JONES, SENIOR ADVISER, INTERNATIONAL SECURITY PROGRAM, CSIS: Starlink is the glue really between the forward deployed drone and the artillery that's conducting the strike against Russian positions.
MARQUARDT: Starlink arrived in Ukraine as the war started, earning Musk global praise and thanks. CNN has now exclusively obtained documents showing not only is SpaceX one part of a large international effort gets Starlink to Ukraine's front lines, but now, seven months into the war, SpaceX is warning the Pentagon it is facing the difficult choice of reducing or stopping service.
[19:55:13]
JONES: Why at this moment Starlink is raising this issue. It's really bad timing.
MARQUARDT: The company says it has spent almost $100 million and, quote, we are not in a position to further donate terminals to Ukraine or fund the existing terminals for an indefinite period of time.
SpaceX has now requested the pentagon pick up much of the tab, $124 million for the rest of 2022, a rate that would translate close to $400 million for the next year.
DMITRI ALPEROVITCH, CHAIRMAN, SILVERADO POLICY ACCELERATOR: SpaceX is not a charity, of course, and they're losing a lo of money right now as a business. So I'm sure they're trying to recoup some of theirs costs.
MARQUARDT: SpaceX's request came after Ukraine's commanding general, Valerii Zaluzhniy, wrote in july directly to Musk. The letter obtained exclusively by CNN.
Starlink units provide exceptional utility, the general wrote, then asked Musk for almost 8,000 more terminals. Instead, SpaceX said they told Ukraine to send their request to the Pentagon, adding we have now exceeded our original agreement with Ukraine.
Without Starlink, Ukraine says it can't fight. Last week, reports emerged of widespread sudden Starlink outages on the front line as troops fought to take back territory.
ALPEROVITCH: They are puzzled about why that is going on. Is that something that SpaceX is doing intentionally? Is that coming from Elon? No one is quite sure.
MARQUARDT: The outages and news of the funding request to the pentagon come as musk's support of Ukraine is also questioned after he proposed a peace deal, suggesting that Ukraine relinquish Crimea to Russia and hold U.N.-backed referenda for parts of Eastern Ukraine.
He told a private audience that Ukraine doesn't want to talk about peace negotiations while he says Russia would accept those terms.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MARQUARDT (on camera): In the backlash that has followed, Elon Musk has repeatedly insisted he is pro Ukraine, just yesterday tweeting at a Ukrainian official who thanked him, saying you're most welcome. Glad to support Ukraine.
Now, in reality, Erin, that support is more complicated. The documents we saw show that SpaceX fully donated just 15 percent of the Starlink hardware. The terminals, those are the terminals, with the majority, 70 percent of the Internet service, the rest come from countries like U.S., Poland, the UK and other entities.
Now, Erin, at the same time, Musk is saying that he's glad to support Ukraine, his company is now saying that support may soon slow down or end. SpaceX ignored our repeated request for comment, and a lawyer for Musk did not respond -- Erin.
BURNETT: Alex Marquardt, thank you very much. Alex's exclusive reporting.
And next, rare resistance in China against the restrictive COVID lockdowns that are still right now being imposed by President Xi Jinping, who is about to clinch an unprecedented third term in power.
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BURNETT: Tonight, an extraordinary scene of resistance over China's severe crackdown on COVID. Protesters using an overpass to hang two big banners, one reading go on strike, remove dictator and national traitor Xi Jinping. An unbelievable statement. The other saying no to COVID test, yes to food. No to lockdown, yes to freedom.
So rare to see anything like this. A protest in China, especially protest directed at Xi, who is about to secure an unprecedented third time in power.
"AC360" starts now.
