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Erin Burnett Outfront

Trump Lashes Out After Attorney General Garland Names Special Counsel To Oversee Federal Trump Probes, Trump To Make Statement Tonight; Trump Attorneys Closely Examining Language On Special Counsel Appointment, Concerned It Could Extend Probe Timelines; Putin Makes First Appearance At Security Council Meeting Since February; Authorities: Slain Idaho Students Found On 2nd, 3rd Floors Of Home; Migrants Flood U.S.-Mexico Border As Trump Era Policy That Has Been Used For Nearly 2.5M Expulsions Is Ending. Aired 7-8p ET

Aired November 18, 2022 - 19:00   ET



ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST: OUTFRONT next, Trump fights back, refusing to cooperate after the attorney general names a special counsel to oversee two federal Trump investigations. Is the Justice Department getting close to charging Trump?

Plus, he's a star in the Republican Party. He may very well run for president. Governor Chris Sununu on why Trump's not the answer in 2024. He's my guest tonight.

And heavy fighting in Eastern Ukraine tonight as Putin makes a rare appearance at a Security Council meeting. What happened behind closed doors?

We're live tonight in Moscow. Let's go OUTFRONT.

And good evening. I'm Erin Burnett.

OUTFRONT tonight, Trump lashing out, slamming the Department of Justice after Attorney General Merrick Garland announced he's appointing a special counsel to oversee two federal investigations involving former President Trump.

Now, Trump is saying that he will make a public statement tonight. And earlier, he told FOX News in part, quote, I hope the Republicans have the courage to fight this. I'm not going to partake in it. I'm not going to partake in this.

He doesn't have much say in the matter, but this comes after Garland said this.


MERRICK GARLAND, ATTORNEY GENERAL: Based on recent developments, including the former president's announcement that he is a candidate for president in the next election, and the sitting president's stated intention to be a candidate as well, I have concluded that it is in the public interest to appoint a special counsel. (END VIDEO CLIP)

BURNETT: So the special counsel will be Jack Smith. He's a longtime justice department prosecutor, and he will oversee the criminal investigations into both the retention of classified documents at Mar- a-Lago -- that's one -- and the other one, parts of the DOJ's January 6th investigation.

Now, the possibility of a special counsel was something that Trump's lawyers have been dreading, and the DOJ investigations are something that Trump has railed against publicly for months.


DONALD TRUMP, FORMER PRESIDENT: The FBI and the Justice Department have become vicious monsters.

The weaponized Department of Justice and the politicized FBI are spending millions and millions of dollars on this continued witch hunt.

The gravest threats to our civilization are not from abroad but from within.

None is greater than the weaponization of the justice system, the FBI, and the DOJ.


BURNETT: Well, Trump has good reason to be afraid. Prosecutors sent out several new subpoenas related to both investigations in recent days, and the deadlines on some of those subpoenas are as early as next week.

They're not waiting until after the thanksgiving holiday. They're doing it right away. And we're learning from multiple sources that some of the people in Trump's orbit who were subpoenaed in the DOJ January 6th probe at this point have recently been given dates in the near future to appear before the grand jury.

And many had hoped and believed the investigation had slowed or stopped. You thought it had gone away because you had not heard from the DOJ in weeks. Then sort of lying there in wait, all of it comes out.

We have all the angles covered on this tonight. I want to start with Evan Perez in Washington.

And, Evan, look, this is a historically significant move, right? A special counsel on criminal investigations into a former president of the United States who's running to be president again.

Why did the DOJ think this move was necessary now?

EVAN PEREZ, CNN SENIOR JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Well, the irony, Erin, is that the former president announced that he was running for office a couple days ago. In part, people around him said, was because he thought it would insulate him from potential charges, from the Justice Department.

And instead, you heard it from Merrick Garland, the attorney general, that that, in fact, triggered this move to appoint a special counsel. They appointed Jack Smith because you have these two investigations that are ongoing. And by the way, now we know certainly from the announcement that the attorney general made today that at least with regard to the January 6th investigation, the effort to impede the transfer of power, Donald Trump is at the center of that. We've known obviously that he was being investigated for the mishandling or the alleged mishandling of classified documents at Mar-a-Lago.

Now, Smith is going to be taking over an investigation that's already well under way. We don't know whether this means charges are very near, but one thing he did say in a statement, he said that the pace of investigations will not pause or flag under my watch. That's an indication that he believes he can hit the ground running once he takes over -- Erin.

BURNETT: So, Jack Smith, who is he? You've got new reporting on who he is and why garland picked him?

PEREZ: Yeah. Look, he's a war crimes prosecutor, which I'm sure is one of the things that is bothering the former president, right? You're bringing over a war crimes prosecutor from The Hague. He's also got a longtime history, ran the public integrity section here in Washington at the Justice Department, worked at various positions in DOJ as well as the Manhattan D.A.'s office.


And we're told that, you know, the Justice Department looked at a number of people, former judges, former DOJ officials, and they arrived at Jack Smith in part because they believed that he could survive what we expect is, of course, the partisan scrutiny. They believe he is going to emerge as someone who is independent, straight down the middle, and, you know, will be able to make these decisions, which in the end, of course, he'll have to make under the rubric of the Justice Department with Merrick Garland at the top -- Erin.

BURNETT: Right, right. Okay. Thank you very much, Evan. And, of course, they'll make a charging recommendation, right?

PEREZ: Right.

BURNETT: Let's go to Kristen Holmes now, because, Kristen, I know you've been speaking to your sources around the former president. What are they telling you about Trump's mindset, right now, and what we should expect to hear from him, because obviously he's made a decision to come out in front of the cameras and the microphones and respond to this tonight?

KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, that's right, Erin. So, when it comes to his mindset, we were told the former president was angry even before the announcement at the prospect of a special counsel. This, of course, having to do with his relationship or his experience with Robert Mueller and he believed that this would draw out these investigations. That anger has just continued.

Now, if this statement is anything like what we saw in that Fox digital interview, it will be a lot of ranting, talking about how this is political. Talking about how he is the victim.

And when it comes to that statement, there were members of his inner circle and more than one who I called and they were asking me what I was talking about when they learned about this statement that he was making. Many of his advisors do not believe this is a good idea. One person familiar with the thinking said this is more likely to be a rant than any kind of actual statement.

One thing to really pay attention to here is that this is not entirely shocking to Trump or his team. Both his legal team and his campaign were prepared for this to possibly happen, for the prospect of a special counsel. He was warned by advisors that he would not be protected even though he was announcing a 2024 presidential bid. So, this was not completely out of left field. They didn't know it was coming today but knew this had the potential to happen, Erin.

BURNETT: Absolutely. All right. Kristen, thank you very much, fascinating reporting, really when you say Kristen is calling people around Trump and say what? He's making a statement tonight? That's obviously hugely significant.

OUTFRONT now, Ryan Goodman, former special counsel at the Department of Defense and co-editor-in-chief of the Just Security blog and with us tonight, John Dean, the former Nixon White House counsel.

So, Ryan, you know, interesting right as Evan is pointing out, part of the pressure for Trump to announce he was running to insulate himself from possible indictment. How likely, what does this do to that rubric and going to a special counsel of whether the president is indicted?

RYAN GOODMAN, FORMER SPECIAL COUNSEL, DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE: I think it ratchets up the likelihood of indictment. I don't think this is something the attorney general would do to wind down the case. It must mean that they're also sitting on a mountain of evidence, they know what is there. So to bring in somebody like Jack Smith and for Jack Smith to leave his current job to do this, he's not coming in to wind something down, I think it ratchets it up and insulates the investigation if there is an indictment, it's more beyond reproach.

And I think that's what's been the mindset of Attorney General Garland. So, I think -- if that was the former president's intention, it seems to not work or backfire.

BURNETT: So, John, do you agree this increases the likelihood of indictment?

JOHN DEAN, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: I do. I think Ryan is right on that you don't bring a special counsel in when you wrap up a case. So I think they have an awareness of the dimensions of the case. There is a real conflict of interest here as Garland explained, you've got two candidates running for president and he works for one of them. So he's put it in the hands of an independent thinker, if you will.

BURNETT: So, Ryan, does this -- does this speed it up, the timeline? They have a mountain of evidence. You've been clear as -- even Ty Cobb, former White House attorney, there is the evidence exists in Mar-a-Lago. The January 6th is the other investigation.

Does this change the timeline of an indictment?

GOODMAN: So, I think there is reason for people to be a little worried does it slow it down? I don't think it will slow it down that much. Certainly, the Mar-a-Lago investigation actually seems pretty straightforward and in a pretty circumscribe set of facts.

The January 6 part is a little bit more complex. But if anything, I even think it compared to the baseline, it could speed things up a little bit. So, for example, we had recent reporting that the Justice Department had not enforced the subpoenas that were sent to the false electors in Arizona.

Jack Smith is not the person who's going to be sitting on that. He's an EDNY prosecutor. He will make sure they're leaning forward on those kinds of things, and in some respect, having somebody like this at the helm could compare to the baseline what we were seeing, speed things up just --


BURNETT: Interesting. And, of course, as you say, Eastern District of New York, also war crimes prosecutor at The Hague, incredible experience.

So, John, obviously, the closest parallel to this situation is Nixon. And tonight, the president, the former president has come out and he's put out a post saying that he's going to be speaking. And the people closest to him didn't know about it.

Can he do damage to himself even more right now, John, by doing something like that?

DEAN: He certainly can. Anything he says at this point, he knows he's the target of an investigation. So he's speaking directly to what is going on and he could get himself in a whole heap of trouble. He has a propensity to do that and sometimes it's not very wise. His earlier statement he wasn't going to get involved, he's just contradicted himself by get very involved.

BURNETT: Right. Giving a speech about it.

Now, Ryan, to that point, the statement that he gave to Fox News: I'm not going to partake in this. I'm not going to partake in it, referencing Merrick Garland's decision to appoint a special counsel. Does he have a choice? I mean, to partake or not partake?

GOODMAN: He does not. It's not -- it doesn't register in legal language to say I'm not going to partake in this investigation. When a suspect or defendant might say I don't want to partake in the investigation of me or indictment of myself but it's meaningless. It doesn't make any sense with respect to the law. The law will decide what happens to him. And that's an ordinary set of circumstances.

I don't know if what he's trying to do is speak more to his followers about I'm above this in a certain sense. But as a legal matter, it makes no difference whether or not he wants to partake.

BURNETT: All right. So, John, now, the number of Republicans are responding that the Justice Department should also point a special counsel and its probe of the president's son Hunter Biden.

The Senator John Cornyn who is a member of GOP leadership said this is an admission of a conflict of interest by the DOJ, now acknowledge the obvious conflict of interest in a Hunter Biden investigation. Of course, the attorney overseeing the Hunter Biden investigation was appointed by then President Trump and still in charge of that investigation.

But is there anything to this line of thinking that the DOJ should appoint a special counsel for Hunter Biden, as well?

DEAN: No, I think that was effectively handled when they assumed power when there was an ongoing investigation. The president and his attorney general obviously left it in place with one of Trump's appointees. That isn't a conflict. That isn't something that rises to the level of a special counsel. It's just not necessary.

And the other thing is the Hunter Biden investigation sounds pretty plain vanilla and ordinary and what have you if there is any truth in what is being said. And this -- we're talking about a whole different level when you're talking about a potential prosecution of a president. So, that's why it's also appropriate to have a special counsel.

BURNETT: Right. A former president and someone who is running for the White House as this goes on.

Thank you both very much.

And next, does the announcement of a special counsel make weary Republicans even more likely to finally jump off the Trump train? I'm going to ask the Republican Governor Chris Sununu.

And new details from the father of a victim, one of four of the college students stabbed to death in Idaho. He says a code was needed to get past the front door.

Plus, a CNN exclusive, Michelle Obama on self-doubt and second guessing.


MICHELLE OBAMA, FORMER FIRST LADY: We as women, we as people of color, we have more of those demons that are -- you know, they are socially structured to keep us small.




BURNETT: Just in, CNN learning Donald Trump's legal team is closely examining the language to the special named counsel overseeing the Justice Department. That's the probes of Trump's mishandling classified documents, as well as his actions on January 6th.

This comes as our Kaitlan Collins also reports they only learned about the special counsel when the rest of the world did and didn't get a heads up from the DOJ.

OUTFRONT now, Republican governor of New Hampshire, Chris Sununu, who just arrived in Las Vegas moments ago for the annual Republican Jewish Coalition meeting that is going to feature multiple potential 2024 candidates, and, of course, you're there, Governor, on that list. The former president is not there tonight.

And I do want to talk about that meeting in just a moment because it's an important one. First, though, this news today. What is your reaction to the breaking headlines that the Justice Department has appointed the special counsel to oversee the January 6th and classified documents investigations into Trump?

GOV. CHRIS SUNUNU (R), NEW HAMPSHIRE: Yeah. Well, I bet the former president is going to have his hands full for quite sometime. There's just no doubt about that. It sounds like he's going to make some type of announcement -- another announcement tonight. The fact that you're making -- the former president is making a press announcement at 8:30 on a Friday night, I guess I'll be like the rest of America and maybe catch it on YouTube tomorrow morning. I don't -- you know?

So, who knows what's going to be said and where it's going to go? As a governor, as someone who was just elected, we've got a job to do. And so, my focus is on New Hampshire on where the message for the Republican Party is going. The former President Trump is going to have to kind of carve his path with his issues.

BURNETT: Right. And I want to ask you where the party is going, because I think that's really important. But, first off, he's the only one who's declared he's running in the party, right? And so, there's this whole -- like he wants to seize the mail and get the ball and say there's no one, I'm not passing.

You've been direct. You said you'd have a hard time supporting him in 2024. Does this new situation and this special counsel impact you at all? I mean, are you completely off the train here? And think it's time for the GOP to move on?

SUNUNU: Well, the GOP is moving on. I mean, it is. He may not -- I'm not saying he can't be the nominee in 2024, but we're going to have a lot of candidates. He's not going to clear the field for anybody. There's going to be a lot of messaging and, frankly, hopefully a lot of results. Republicans still have to deliver. If you -- if someone wants to be president or the party wants to do

well in '24, both the Senate, Congress, as governors, we've got to deliver on what we told the American people we'd do. We had our cycles where we don't do that. And so, my big message to the Republican Party is get it done, huge opportunity here to do something.


We got to show the American people we're up for it.

BURNETT: So, what do you think -- when you're talking to others and you're all, you know, everyone sort of sassing each other out, I'm sure to see, you know, who's running? What you're going to do?

What's the thinking right now? Does everybody just wait a little while and to see what Trump does, as he sort of wallow in this -- in this pool with the special counsel or what?

SUNUNU: No one really cases -- I don't think anyone cares what the former president's path is. That's his path. I think the rest of the folks that might considering in '24, they're going to -- I think they're going to wait a long time. I don't think you're going to see candidates really say, I'm running for president until maybe next summer to be honest. There's going to be a long time to do that.

I mean, candidates can be out there doing their thing and advocating for themselves or issues or frankly getting stuff done and -- you know, as a governor, I got to balance a budget in the next two months. That's a hard job. I'm going to be busy with that. So, as an elected official, you got to do your job.

Now, where the whole '24 stuff goes, I'll be watching it closely because I'm the governor of the first of the nation primary. I'm kind of like the referee a little bit. You know, we want -- there will be -- I'm sure they will be coming up and making visits over time.

But anyone that wants to get in this race is going do and nobody will be dictated by the former president's schedule.

BURNETT: So, I want to talk where you are, because you're in Las Vegas. You're going to be addressing this very important group, the Republican Jewish Coalition, at the annual meeting and you're there with others. We all know this is a big deal.

2024 hopefuls there, including you, Ron DeSantis, Mike Pence, Nikki Haley, Trump, of course, is not there. Although interestingly, Governor, he's going to speak via satellite. So, there is another opportunity see what he's going to say about all of this.

But you've been very vocal. The Republicans need a new direction. You need to connect with new voters. What is that new direction going to look like in your speech?

SUNUNU: Yeah. So, I can tell you, I don't know if it's a new direction. I think we got to get back to the basics, the foundations of what Republicans are about, which is limited government and low taxes, local control, individual responsibility. These have been the tenets of the Republican Party for quite a long time.

We're going to get back to them. And I get some of extremes on both sides but really the extremes had the microphones for awhile. I know that makes kind of exciting news. But they really don't represent the core of where this party is. And I think the core of what we're truly about.

So, I don't think it's changing a direction. It's just getting refocused, getting positive, getting inspirational. You know, nothing frustrates me more when I see my peers on a news program or in social media just yelling and complaining and negative and all of this. Part of the job of leadership is not all rainbows and unicorns, but you got to bring something to the table to hopefully inspire the next generation, inspire the independent voter, inspire that individual that has been marginalized to be part of something that is frankly bigger than ourselves.

This is -- when I'm governor, this isn't about me, right? It's so much bigger than me. So we have to bring that attitude to the table and be engaging and be accessible. And I think there's a whole huge opportunity to kind of re-excite folks on what the Republican Party is really about, get some results, show that we can get it done and then we can deliver in '24.

BURNETT: All right. Governor Sununu, thank you very much.

SUNUNU: You bet.

BURNETT: And next, heavy fighting in Eastern Ukraine tonight as Vladimir Putin makes a public appearance at a security counsel meeting for the first time since the invasion.

And new tonight, law enforcement releasing a map detailing the last movements of the Idaho stabbing victims. As the father of one of them says you actually need a code to get in the front door of the home where the homicides took place.



BURNETT: Tonight, Vladimir Putin making a rare in-person appearance at the meeting of a security counsel since the first time since February when this began. Besides of a brief clip of the meeting that aired on state TV showing Putin with key members of his inner circle, they were all together, the rest of the discussion was behind closed doors.

Fred Pleitgen is OUTFRONT. He is in Moscow tonight.

And, Fred, what more can you tell us about the meeting which obviously, you know, it's the first time since February and Putin's first in-person appearance?

FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, the first in-person appearance and I think really was important thing. And, you know, the clip we're showing is pretty much all that Russian state media showed of the meeting but did make sure to show it very prominently because this is key messaging coming from the Kremlin.

On the face of it, the topic of the meeting was civil defense, a domestic issue if you will. If you look at the list of participants and see some people in the clip that we've been showing, it's the foreign minister. It's the head of foreign intelligence. It's the defense minister, as well.

So, a pretty big meeting designed to show Vladimir Putin holds the reigns of Russia security apparatus in the face of Russia's war in Ukraine. There had been questions about that especially after Vladimir Putin stayed largely silent after Russia with drew from Kherson, from the Kherson region.

You recall it was the defense minister talking and the general in charge talking but Putin pretty much going to a different event. Not even being associated with that military loss that the Russians suffered there.

So, now, it seems like the Russians believe that enough time has passed that Vladimir Putin needs to show he's in control of that once again and the Russians also believe that they have some momentum going on on the battle field, as well and it's a bit awkward because the thing they're really putting out there is the fact that the Russians are hitting Ukraine's key infrastructure.

One of the things that we heard from the military is they once again said they hit some Ukrainian command infrastructure, but also fuel and energy infrastructure. The Russians also putting that out there, on Kremlin controlled media as well, by the way. Where after course, we know from the Ukrainians it's actually a lot of civilians being killed and hurt in those attacks that are taking place by the Russians.

One other thing we picked up on today, Erin, I thought was important is that the Kremlin spokesperson said about a possible dialogue with the West as a possible bridge towards talks between Ukraine and Russia, as well. So, that's something that we're also going to keep an eye on, Erin.

BURNETT: All right. Fred, thank you very much live from Moscow late tonight.


And OUTFRONT now, the retired Lieutenant General Ben Hodges, the former commanding general for the U.S. Army Europe and the Seventh Army.

And, General, I'm glad to have you back.

So, you know, Fred is talking about Kherson, right, and the significance, right? This was huge for Putin when he had it, and he had it for months. And now, this withdrawal.

So, you know, what message do you think Putin is trying to send with this meeting where he's appearing with people in his inner circle frankly he has not been seen with side by side in months?


And as usual, Fred does a very good job. I would agree completely with his assessment of why the Kremlin decided to broadcast that Putin was taking this meeting, that the big guy is in charge, things are under control which is always an important part of the image management of the Kremlin and as Fred pointed out, the fact he was -- tried to distance him from the catastrophe of the withdrawal from Kherson. So this seems like classic Kremlin image management.

BURNETT: Right, right, with them in person, when the war began, he was at the end of the long table, a lot of stuff was by video. This was in person in a normal setting. But now the context here is Kherson and the loses Russia faced there.

But right now, as we speak, general, there is fierce fighting along the front lines in eastern Ukraine and the U.K. defense ministry says Russia will likely escalate attacks there, they have taken back some areas in the Kherson region that Ukraine had managed to get control of again.

So where does this happen? It doesn't look like -- I mean, I know we use the word withdrawal from Kherson but it seems that may not be where this is going.

HODGES: Well, I think that the Russians, the Kremlin are trading bodies for time. They're feeding in these untrained recently mobilized soldiers, the ones -- the men not lucky enough or smart enough to get out of Russia when the mobilization started.


HODGES: And now they're fed into the fight and the Kremlin is trading bodies for time. They're objective now. They have no hope of actually winning this war. Their only hope now is to string it out long enough that all of us get weary and tired of it.

So, the combination of constant fighting along the front, particularly around the Bakhmut area where thousands of people are going to be fighting and thousands of these untrained Russians will be killed or captured, and at the same time, the targeting of civilian infrastructure is all designed to put Ukrainians on the road into Western Europe, which will put pressure on capitalists, to put pressure on Kyiv.

So this is their strategic --

BURNETT: That's the strategy to force a negotiation.

Well, you know, in the context of this, you talk about this situation for the Russian forces. We have a new video from inside Russia, newly surfaced video. It claims to show soldiers in the region of Moscow complaining about the poor quality of their bulletproof vests, right? So we're not talking about some of these that we've seen out in far provinces. This is the Moscow region.

And so, they're having this argument then a soldier gets physically with what appears to be a commanding officer. Pretty stunning moment. Let me play it.


RUSSIAN SOLDIER (through translator): Why are we given this Chinese crap and not real army vests? Explain that to me. It's protection grade is four plus at best and no one is even testing whether it's bulletproof or not.

RUSSIAN SOLDIER (through translator): They did.

RUSSIAN SOLDIER (through translator): They did.

RUSSIAN SOLDIER (through translator): They did? How did that go?

RUSSIAN SOLDIER (through translator): The bullet pierced it.

RUSSIAN SOLDIER (through translator): The bullet went through. They tested it and the bullet went through.

RUSSIAN SOLDIER (through translator): Take your hands out of your pockets. We'll stand like this. I'll spit on your collar, all right?

RUSSIAN SOLDIER (through translator): Why would you spit on my collar?

RUSSIAN SOLDIER (through translator): Why not?

RUSSIAN SOLDIER (through translator): You better knock that off.

RUSSIAN SOLDIER (through translator): Calm down, Sasha. Don't let your arms go.


BURNETT: So, General, we're seeing here, the angry soldier, I'll spit on your collar. Why would you spit on my collar? It starts to escalate. This is the way he's treating a commander. The soldiers went on to shame the commander because the commander isn't going on the trenches with them.

Does this total breakdown in command, control and troop cohesion surprise you at all?

HODGES: It does not surprise me that these recently mobilized soldiers who are being sent to the front without proper training, sensibly most of these guys have been in the army before. I mean, you remember when the journal mobilization order was issued, they were only going to mobilize soldiers who have served before.


So, this guy -- I mean, I saw the video before myself. He clearly kind of knows what is going on. And they don't respect the officer there. And so there was a surly attitude that ought to strike fear in the heart of the any officer that sort of conjures up the image of 1917 when the -- in the czar's army, when the troop said, you know, they basically mutinied.

Now, I don't know how widespread this incident is. I certainly like you would have seen many, many videos and hurt anecdotes and reports about this happening in other places. The fact this was so brazen and as you pointed out this was in the Moscow region I think this does, in fact, highlight what should not surprise anybody that these soldiers absolutely do not want to fight. They know that they're going to be used as cannon fodder and the biggest evidence is that they're handed crap equipment.

BURNETT: Yeah, it's pretty stunning to watch it to happen and right there in Moscow.

Thank you so much, General Hodges. I appreciate your time joining us again from Frankfurt tonight.

And next, police in the deadly Idaho stabbings case release a new time line and map of the victim's last known movements.

Plus, we're live on the southern border where migrants are lining up once again to get into the United States after a federal judge struck down a policy that has been used to expel -- 2.5 million times to expel migrants.


REPORTER: What do you do of title 42?

You said two days ago you heard they got rid of it.



BURNETT: Tonight, new details in the horrific stabbing murders of four University of Idaho students. The Moscow Idaho police chief saying the students bodies were found on the second and third floors of the House. The coroner also telling CNN there was, quote, lots of blood on the wall.

And all of this new information is as police are releasing a detailed time line on the student's known movements in the hours before they were murdered.

Veronica Miracle is OUTFRONT.


VERONICA MIRACLE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Video of three of the University of Idaho stabbing victims posted on Kaylee Goncalves' TikTok account shows the roommates all pretending to be each other, getting a glimpse of their lives together, in a three-story house just weeks before they were brutally murdered.

On the night of the murders, Ethan Chapin and Xana Kernodle were at the Sigma Chi fraternity at the University of Idaho between 8:00 and 9:00 p.m. Madison Mogen and Kaylee Goncalves visited a local sports bar from 10:00 p.m. to 1:30 p.m., and then a food truck around 140 a.m. Police releasing a map showing those exact locations for the first time hoping new leads will break the case.

AARON SNELL, IDAHO STATE POLICE COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR: We believe that releasing information about the location of the victims throughout the night might generate some information that we can follow up on.

MIRACLE: Police say all of the victims were home by 145 a.m. their bodies found on the second and third floors of the home.

Is the first floor where the roommates were sleeping?

SNELL: Yeah, we have not identified where the roommates were.

MIRACLE: But the biggest question who killed them and why. There are still no suspects.

SNELL: We still contend that this was targeted. We cannot divulge the information how why we believe that or how. That is integral to this investigation.

MIRACLE: Police are clarifying why they're not releasing more information about the victim's roommates who were at home during the attacks.

SNELL: In a case, someone may potentially be a victim, they may be a witness or they may be a suspect. In this case, we don't know what it means are exactly at this time.

MIRACLE: Xana Kernodle's father saying he talked to his daughter the night before she died.

JEFFREY KERNODLE, VICTIM'S FATHER: I heard from her before he went out. I think midnight is the last time I heard from her and she was fine. They were just hanging out at home.

MIRACLE: Her father too distraught to be interviewed on camera saying he has learned his daughter had defensive wounds, showing she fought her attacker.

KERNODLE: Bruise, you know, maybe occurred by the knife or whatever. She's a tough kid. Whatever she wanted to do, she could do it.

MIRACLE: The county coroner confirmed to CNN that some of the students likely had defensive stab wounds to the hands and there were no signs of sexual assault or an issue of drugs or alcohol.

But each student had multiple stab wounds?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That's correct. That's really the main thing that I saw was a lot of blood.

MIRACLE: The victims' friends and coworkers say now they just want to honor their memories.

IRELAND DUNNING, CO-WORKER OF VICTIMS: They -- they just brought light to the room that they were in.


MIRACLE (on camera): Erin, police say there were no signs of forced entry into the home.

Xana Kernodle's father telling our affiliate that in order to get inside this house, you either have to know the door code or get in through the sliding glass door in the back, which leads him to believe whoever did this knew how to get into the house -- Erin.

BURNETT: All right. Veronica, thank you very much. Live on the scene in Moscow, Idaho.

And next, we are on the southern border live where the U.S. is bracing right now for another massive influx of migrants.

And in a CNN exclusive Michelle Obama opens up about her struggles with self-doubt and how she tries to confront it head on.


MICHELLE OBAMA, FORMER FIRST LADY: Snuffing out the doubters, pushing out the negative voices, many of them not true, not applicable.




BURNETT: Tonight, Republicans telling the Homeland Security Secretary Alejandro Mayorkas to get ready to testify about the border.

The warning coming today from Republicans on the House Judiciary Committee, as waves of migrants are showing up at the U.S.-Mexico border again after a judge struck down a Trump era policy that allowed the Biden administration to turn them away.

That policy is called Title 42, and the Biden administration has been using it to keep people out of the U.S.

David Culver is OUTFRONT from the Mexican side of the border.


DAVID CULVER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): We start early, only to realize they are already on the move.

From the Mexico side of the border, we watch these migrant families nearing closer to their final destination, or so they hope.

You can see these folks have already gone across the river. Technically, they're already in the U.S. They'll continue along the wall here until they get an entrance where they'll likely be detained and start their process in entering the U.S.

We continue further down along the Rio Grande and find this camp city. It sits in Ciudad Juarez, Mexico, opposite El Paso, Texas.

At the start of this week, aide workers estimated 3,000 people were sleeping here. That was until word spread suggesting an easing of U.S. border restrictions. Immediately, some 2,000 people mobilized to cross.

This is the second time.

Joribel, her husband, and their 5-year-old son motivated to try again after learning this week a U.S. federal judge struck down what's called Title 42, a Trump era policy allows border agents to turn away migrants crossing illegally in all the name of COVID prevention. Since it took effect in March of 2020 there have been 2.5 million expulsions most under the Biden administration.


What do you know of Title 42?


CULVER: They said two days ago, they heard that they got rid of it.

Not exactly. The order remains in effect until December 31st.

Are you scared?


CULVER: He said he's a little scared, because it is hard because you don't know what's going to happen.

After a tearful hug with a friend, they cautiously inch closer. Dozens do the same over the course of just a few hours.

A lot of them have taken off their shoes, they dry off on the other side, and then they head up and start the processing.

We also meet Rafael Rojas, about to follow in their footsteps.

That is not your clothes?


CULVER: Wearing clothes donated by Americans, he recounted the painful journey from Venezuela walking through treacherous jungles and witnessing death and a lot of death. But for some, like 9-year-old Ruby Mota, it was an adventure. That is how her innocent mind remembers it. She narrates the trek that most in the cam took starting in Venezuela and then --

RUBY MOTA, 9-YEAR-OLD: Columbia, Panama, Honduras, Costa Rica, Nicaragua, Guatemala, Mexico.

CULVER: Her dream destination, Ruby can't remember the last time she was in a classroom. But she hopes to go to school in New York.

One month here.

Ruby's family wants to cross immediately, if they could find a loving home for Linda, part of the family. But pets aren't allowed in.

Back at the crossing site, this man's mother crying over FaceTime not knowing the next time she'll see his face. Others forge ahead, a seemingly endless stream, one that continues uphill.


CULVER (on camera): And, Erin, one of the things you point out in all of this is that Venezuela is one of the critical components to the Department of Homeland Security's strategy as they're looking to figure out how they can secure the border for one protect it from a law enforcement perspective but also try to process in an orderly fashion, and they do expect the surge to continue. But the Venezuelans who are going into the country will be limited at 24,000 according to the Department of Homeland Security.

To put that in perspective, this is massive humanitarian crisis, one of the largest in the world, millions are trying to get in -- Erin.

BURNETT: Millions and now here in these next weeks, we will see what happens. David Culver, thank you so much.

His continued excellent reporting there along the border, we're grateful for it.

And next, one of the most admired women in the world but even Michelle Obama admits she has to practice pushing internal demons and doubts aside. This is a CNN exclusive.



BURNETT: Tonight, a CNN exclusive, former First Lady Michelle Obama opening up about her struggles with self-doubt and offering this advice. Listen to her.


MICHELLE OBAMA, FORMER FIRST LADY: One of the most important things I've learned is that you can't control what other people think and do, that the first thing we have to master -- I have to master is my own thoughts, my own heart.

And that's a habit that you have to practice, snuffing out the doubters, pushing out the negative voices, many of them not true, not applicable. We as women, we as people of color, we have them more. Those demons are -- you know, they are socially structured to keep us small.

But you have to practice letting light into you. Because if you don't see your light, you can't shine it on anyone else and no one will see it in you. So the work begins here. It always has for me.


BURNETT: So in a new CNN special, the former first lady, Melinda French Gates and Amal Clooney sit down with our Sara Sidner.

And Sara joins me now.

And I cannot wait to see. I'm just so eager to watch all of them. We so rarely hear any of them in this capacity and all together. What else happened?

SARA SIDNER, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: We got very personal. We also looked at the big picture, what's happening with women and girls around the world, 100 million girls are not in school but they're school age and why that is and what that does to a community.

But they had asked the girls that attended this was this was an audience and there were girls younger in their teens and early 20s, what they would like to say to their 25-year-old self when they get older, so I reversed the question and here's the answer to the advice these women would give to their 25-year-old self.


SIDNER: What would you tell your 25-year-old self now that you've lived a life?

MELINDA FRENCH GATES, PHILANTROPHIST: I would say life is even more beautiful ahead than you realize, and I would say to my 25-year-old self you knew in high school who you were, and you let go of some of that for lots of reasons -- people, situations, college, people around you. You knew who you were. And once you learned to be the girl you were in high school is once you grew into the full woman that you could be.


Mrs. Obama?

OBAMA: That part.

Just simply put. I would tell myself, you were good enough. You were valued. You were worthy. Your story matters, your voice matters.

You will do the great things that you know you can do.

AMAL CLOONEY, ATTORNEY: You know, I would say defining failure as not trying because actually going for things and falling flat on your face is fine, it's a learning experience. It makes you strong.

But if you don't try, and if you don't actually follow your dreams or even admit what they are and go for it, it's something that will stay with you.


SIDNER: And what will I think stay with all of us is how that started. You knew who you were when you were a young girl, but society and all the things around you started to change that person that you truly your authentic self and letting that come back out is important. There's a lot more that they talk about. We laugh, we cried.

BURNETT: I cannot wait to see this. I'm really so fascinated by all of them and so eager to hear them over all these years, so to hear what she has to say.

Thank you so much.

And all of you, you've got to see Sara's conversation -- full conversation with them Sunday night at 8:00 p.m.

Thanks for joining us.

Right now, it's time for Anderson.