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Erin Burnett Outfront
Georgia Judge Holds First Televised Hearing In Trump Case, Denies Motion To Separate Chesebro & Powell Cases; Lawsuit Filed To Block Trump From Colorado's Primary Ballot; Video Shows Murderer Escape Prison By Crab Walking Up Wall; Growing Inflation Fears As Oil Prices Reach 10-Month High; Blinken In Kyiv, Announces $1 Billion In New U.S. Support. Aired 7-8p ET
Aired September 06, 2023 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST: OUTFRONT next, denied. A major defeat for a two Trump codefendants in Georgia. This as a former Trump employee officially flips. And he's now working with the feds.
And a convicted killer who stabbed a woman 38 times in front of her young children caught on video escaping from prison, fueling laws, dodging razor wire, making it to the roof and for now, to freedom.
Plus, oil prices at a near year high. Mortgage rates at the highest levels in decades. Is inflation growing back?
Let's go OUTFRONT.
And good evening. I'm Erin Burnett.
OUTFRONT tonight, denied. A judge ruling against two of Donald Trump's codefendants in the Georgia election interference case and doing it in a historic televised hearing. It was live on television, something Trump today said he didn't mind.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, FORMER PRESIDENT: It's all right, it's okay. I don't mind. If it happens, but we're going to motion to dismiss.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
BURNETT: Well, today, the judge, of course, didn't dismiss anything, other than motions from two of Trump's codefendants. That judge denying Kenneth Chesebro and Sidney Powell's request to try their case separately from each other, which could be really damning for them both and raises big questions.
But that judge today also questioned the D.A.'s plan to start the trial for all 19 of the defendants in the case on October 23rd.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGIA JUDGE: It just seems a bit unrealistic to think that we can handle all 19 in 40-something days. It can easily be twice that.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
BURNETT: Now part of the reason that it may seem unrealistic to him is that prosecutors said today that they plan to call 150 witnesses and that's a lot of people. On an interview today, Trump claims that he also wants to take the stand.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
HUGH HEWITT, RADIO HOST: If you have to go to trial, will you testify in your own defense?
TRUMP: Oh yes, absolutely.
HEWITT: You would take the stand?
TRUMP: That I would, that I look forward to.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
BURNETT: All right, you know he always says this sort of stuff. Remember hoping there was tapes with Comey. I mean, keep in mind, Trump also claimed back in 2018 that he wasn't 100 percent going to testify in the Mueller investigation, right? Every time, he gave the opportunity, he couldn't wait to testify. And the time came, though, he balked. He didn't do it.
Now whether Trump takes the stand or not, takes the oath others will. And tonight, we know that one person is officially now flipping on Trump in one of the cases against him. Mar-a-Lago I.T. worker Yuscil Tavares has a formal deal with prosecutors in the classified documents case. Now, Tavares initially had lied to prosecutors about Trump's efforts to erase surveillance video of Mar-a-Lago.
Now, though, he is prepared to speak the truth and the truth that he can speak to matters because as you, know that Mar-a-Lago indictment, charges Trump with trying to delete security camera footage at the Mar-a-Lago club to prevent the footage from being provided to a federal grand jury.
Now, Tavares got an attorney and he has changed his testimony, saying that he lied before he said nothing bad happen.
A lot to get to tonight, including on a major ruling on Mark Meadows in the Fulton County case that could come at anytime, and a huge implications from Meadows and Trump.
So, I want to go to Nick Valencia, because he is an Atlanta OUTFRONT outside of the courthouse. He was inside of the hearing today.
So, Nick, let's start with that. You are there in the room, what did you see and hear inside of the courtroom?
NICK VALENCIA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Erin, it was fascinating. The gallery was packed and I was surrounded by attorneys for many of these codefendants, all of whom have a vested interest in what happened here today. The judge who's presiding over this trial, Scott McAfee, and today, we've got our first glimpse at him at work.
This is also the first glimpse for the attorneys and adding to the drama as that you mentioned that this was televised live to the world, much different from the previous proceedings for Trump, the federal hearings and as well as the New York charges. None of those were broadcast live.
And today started out with Ken Chesebro, the former pro-Trump attorney arguing that there is at least three conspiracies listed in this indictment, and that their client, Chesebro, is only connected to the fake electors' scheme. They say that Sidney Powell is connected to an entirely different other scheme of trying to illegally access voting data in rural Coffee County and that has nothing to do with their client Ken Chesebro. They went even further to say that not only does Chesebro not know Sidney Powell personally, they've never met, but he's never stepped foot in Coffee County.
But the state pushback on those claims, saying after all that this is a RICO indictment and evidence against one is evidence against all. All of these counts, they argued in this indictment were to further the overarching conspiracy here which they say was to try and keep the former president in power.
Ultimately, Judge McAfee used his discretion to deny the Chesebro motion. So, now, both Powell and Chesebro go hurdling into this October 23rd date which is just 47 days away.
The judges already expressed skepticism of charging all of these 19 codefendants. And we heard some of those arguments there. It was going to be addressed at a hearing next Thursday airing where McAfee will decide whether or not all 19 will be tried together or it will just be these two. And we also got a glimpse into how long this potentially could take.
Nathan Wade, that lead prosecutor on this case has been working with Fani Willis saying that it's going to take at least four months of 250 witnesses and that does not include jury selection. So, we are looking at a very, very long road ahead here in Georgia -- Erin.
BURNETT: Absolutely. Well, it doesn't include jury selection.
All right. Nick, thank you very much, outside that courthouse and as I said, he was there in the hearing.
Ryan Goodman with me now, former special counsel for Department of Defense, now with "Just Security". And Chris Timmons, the former Georgia prosecutor who, of course, is very familiar with the state's RICO statute.
So, Chris, let me start from you -- with you on that. You know, based on everything that you heard from the judge today, so we got, you know, we all got to see it but I mean, you can kind of read between the lines. Why do you think that he actually ultimately wants to see happen here? CHRIS TIMMONS, FORMER GEORGIA PROSECUTOR: I think, first and
foremost, Erin, he'd love to see the two speedy trial demands withdrawn but I don't think that will happen.
Alternatively, I think he wants a little bit of understanding of what's going to happen with regard to the removal up in federal court. I think that was probably his biggest concern, that, you know, they might start a trial for everyone, including the potential defendants that might have their case removed, and then end up having to remove the case to federal court. If that would happen, at that point, it causes some double jeopardy concerns. So, I think that's his biggest issue is he doesn't want to start there.
The other issue is logistically, when you're dealing with 19 people, I mean, even trying to find a courtroom big enough to hold a trial like that is going to be tricky. But I mean, the other side of that is how that would you like to do this trial twice. Each time, probably going anywhere from nine months to a year.
BURNETT: Yeah. I mean, just to think about that.
And, obviously, the Meadows that you are referring to that goes to federal court, Ryan, we are waiting. We could find that at any moment, right? I mean, that is -- we believe and it has been for a day.
So to this point though, 150 witnesses and they say four months to try, it doesn't even include jury selection. You know, that seems to me to be a whoa, that is a lot, that is what the judge expressed today. Ty Cobb was saying yesterday, and he had done a case in Georgia with -- I don't remember, I'm sure if he is watching, he'll correct me, 28 or 26 in a RICO case at one time, and it was fine.
So he didn't buy this argument. What do you make of what the judge is saying?
RYAN GOODMAN, FORMER SPECIAL COUNSEL AT DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE: I think the judge's right to say, well, we've got a complicated case here in particular which is that some of these people want to go fast and under Georgia law, they do have the right to a speedy trial so it has to happen by certainly November for the October 23rd.
Once you've got that pace in place and then to try and bring all of the others in under that same clock, that's what makes it very difficult. That's what makes it highly likely that this will be severed at some sense --
BURNETT: Into two, but not separating it anymore than that. I mean, you wouldn't think there would be a need for that or?
GOODMAN: Not necessarily but maybe, because there are court cases in which it does -- the courts have found in certain situations when you have too many defendants, it can be prejudicial to one or the other. So, I think the judge will have to be worried about that as well whether his ruling could be overturned on that basis, but in this particular setting, it seems as though it's going to be two trials as we can currently see it and then there is this other thing as you mention which is the Meadows removal case. That is the unknown variable because it also can throw a spanner in the works.
BURNETT: Yes, the black swan event. (INAUDIBLE) you could say.
Okay, Chris, earlier, I played Trump saying he's okay with the trial being televised and he then went on to say this.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
TRUMP: I have so many lawyers that want to work with, me they love this case. It makes sense. Forget about money, they get paid, but you become famous on the stuff. And it's not even tough.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
BURNETT: Now, Chris, I put aside the joke and legal circles that MAGA is making attorneys get attorneys, because he has a point that some of these individuals get on TV and they become famous in a way, I guess. He says he wants to take the stand here as well.
Do you -- do you think that that event makes sense? That any of these attorneys that he has would support such a thing?
TIMMONS: They're not going to do it for free, Erin. I mean, it's -- so that is taking an entire year off of your practice to work on just one case. And so, I don't know if any attorneys that are willing to do. That it is a pretty high price for the advertising that you're going to get.
Certainly, you're going to become famous but the chance could be that you're going to be come infamous. I mean, when you take that case, half of America hates you. If your client turns on you, which client has from time to time, then the other half of America hates you as well.
So I think it's a big risk. I think, you know, stepping away from your practice for an entire year for one case is just not a gamble that most attorneys are willing to take. Attorneys are risk-averse and that is a big risk.
BURNETT: Yeah. I mean, Eastman, Chesebro, Ellis, Powell.
I mean, I'm not -- you know, I'm not equating peoples -- but these lawyers could be going to jail, right?
BURNETT: So, that there is a price that they have to pay for this. So, Ryan, what about this I.T. worker at Mar-a-Lago? We know formally there's a deal. He's agreed to flip.
He had an attorney, Trump paid for the attorney, when he had denied anything going wrong. When he got rid of that attorney and got a new one, suddenly he said actually, I'm going to speak the truth and the truth is -- you know, that this happened right? There is pressure from the president and others to delete this footage. How significant could he be?
GOODMAN: I think it could be very significant to the Mar-a-Lago case because he has direct evidence of the cover-up. So, the idea that they will try to delete video recordings of moving the boxes, that's huge for the prosecution. It speaks to the criminal guilt underlying the entire --
BURNETT: At the least, it's obstruction.
GOODMAN: At the least it's obstruction, right, and it shows that it is farther from the truth that Trump is trying to cooperate and actually get this information back to the government. I think also could be a watershed for other individuals, the ones that you just named in a certain sense. I think reality is kind of like staring him in the face right now because this is becoming much more concrete that they might be spending time in jail if they don't flip and cooperate.
And Ken Chesebro today just received a very damaging ruling that he is going to be in the dock with Sidney Powell. I think that's another person I would be watching to see what happens.
BURNETT: And, Chris, do think that also can happen and buy them being permanently whetted together, you know, Powell and Chesebro in Georgia, that that could cause a very significant flip?
TIMMONS: Maybe, I don't know. I mean, so the thing is they are attorneys and attorneys don't want -- and my identity is an attorney. So what you are asking somebody when they flip and they are in attorney to plead guilty to a felony, you're asking them to stop being an attorney, and that's a difficult thing for anyone to do. When they are in that situation, they tend to double down. I think we're going to trial on this on October 23rd at the very least.
BURNETT: Yeah, it'll be interesting, right, you can figure you go for that or go for both going to prison.
Brian, I do want to ask you another story out here tonight which is a development for the Justice Department saying that the special counsel, David Weiss, intends to go for an indictment in the Hunter Biden investigation by the end of the month. This indictment is not related to bribery or corruption or Ukraine or the vice president, this indictment is related to the gun purchase which he did not -- which he did not do correctly.
So does this mean anything for those other accusations which are obviously completely unproven at this point but much more significant?
GOODMAN: I do think that they will probably follow through as well with some of the tax crimes that were part of the plea agreement. Not a plea agreement has broken, that it's expected that they would then bring an indictment for the gun charge and then it will probably bring an indictment for the tax charges. But nothing greater than that is foreseeable.
That said, part of the reason that the negotiation also broke down is because the special counsel said there are other ongoing investigations. And everybody is kind of wondering about that, is there something bigger, maybe with respect elect representation as a foreign agent, a foreign powers. That is one potential, but we don't know there's no evidence it is tied anything to the president, so this really is discreetly about Hunter Biden kind of facing justice and of the crimes that he has himself otherwise going to admit to a plea bargain.
BURNETT: Right. All right. Thank you very much, Ryan and, of course, Chris, thank you as well.
Next, keeping Trump off of the ballot. There is an obscure legal argument using the 14th Amendment that is getting a lot of steam tonight. Famed constitutional scholar Laurence Tribe will be OUTFRONT.
Plus, dramatic new video showing the moments a convicted killer broke out of prison scaling a brick wall and climbing onto the roof.
The powerful storm turning in the Atlantic now officially a hurricane and on track to become a category five.
BURNETT: Tonight, keeping Trump off at the ballot. Six Colorado voters with the help of a watchdog group are suing to keep Donald Trump off the ballot in Colorado, and they are citing the 14th Amendment. In fact, specifically, Article Three of the amendment which states no person shall hold any office who having previously taken an oath to support the Constitution of the United States shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof.
Of course, it's a legal Hail Mary but the idea is gaining steam in other places as well. New Hampshire, Michigan, Arizona to name a few.
Laurence Tribe is OUTFRONT now, the constitutional law professor of Harvard law and a local proponent of using the 14th Amendment to keep Donald Trump off of state ballots.
And, Professor Tribe, this has been gaining steam, more and more conversation, more and more discussion about it. It is something you have talked extensively about. The argument, though, of course, it's not been tested since the civil war.
So why do you think that it can be used now to disqualify Trump?
LAURENCE TRIBE, CONSTITUTION LAW PROFESSOR, HARVARD LAW SCHOOL: Well, that Constitution says very clearly that anyone who takes an oath to the Constitution and holds an office and then tries to overturn the Constitution, by for example preventing the peaceful transfer of power can never again hold office. That's clear. It's part of the Constitution, it's never been removed. In a way that Trump era has been a tuition-free education in constitutional law, because there are so many things that have never happened before, and we have to confront them. We have never before had a president who took an oath to uphold the
Constitution and then went lost the election, schemed and plotted to hold on to power. That is the very definition of an insurrection.
Now, I'm not here to predict what will happen but of all of the lawsuits that have been brought, by far the strongest is the one that was filed today by six registered voters of Colorado. They did their research, they have standing under Colorado state law to demand that the secretary of state apply all of the constitutional eligibility and ineligibility requirements in a primary election. What she will do is unclear, but whatever she does, this case is on its way quickly to the U.S. Supreme Court, which is going to have to decide one way or another whether the Constitution is going to be followed.
Those people who say, well, don't be unrealistic.
No Supreme Court especially a conservative one, three of his members were appointed by Donald Trump, going to enforce this provision. Well, we'll just have to see. They may not but if they don't, they'll have to explain why not.
BURNETT: Well, it's interesting you raise that point, right, a conservative Supreme Court, this would be an absolutist, I mean, very black and white reading of the Constitution, right? And to that point, conservative legal scholar, George Washington University law school professor Jonathan Turley, has weighed in. And he said something I want to give you a chance to respond to about why he thinks using the 14th Amendment against Trump does not make sense. Here he is.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JONATHAN TURLEY, GEORGE WASHINGTON UNIVERSITY LAW SCHOOL PROFESSOR: I think it is the most dangerous theory that has emerged in decades. I think it's entirely unsupportive by the text and the history of the 14th Amendment. This provision was written after the Civil War of an actual rebellion, where hundreds of thousands of people died.
It is notable that Trump has not been charged even with incitement, let alone rebellion or insurrection. And yet, they say that this does not even require an act of Congress, not any judge can simply announce that he was supporting an insurrection and that he is therefore disqualified.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Right. Several points there. Obviously, he's saying the context matters, hundreds of thousands of people died in the civil war. That was why this was written, and that it would be inappropriate to use it in the context now. He does raise a point accurately, that Trump has not been charged with rebellion, insurrection or incitement.
Does he have a point there?
TRIBE: Absolutely not. Mr. Turley does not know what he's talking about.
The fact that there was no charge of incitement, no conviction, that's not the point. This profession was written specifically as an alternative saying, whether you're convicted or not, and they didn't expect people to be convicted under President Andrew Johnson after the Civil War, whether you're convicted or not, that's a separate matter.
But if you engage in an attempt to overturn the government, you shouldn't be interested with power again.
Now, he says hundreds of thousands of people died, how many have to die before we enforce this? There were several who died at the Capitol on the insurrection.
That's all nonsense. It is conservatives like Judge Luttig and members of the Federalist Society who agree with me. I'm afraid that Jonathan Turley is basically a hack. He doesn't really know what he's talking about.
BURNETT: All right. He makes the legal issue. One other thing I want to give you a chance to respond to though is, it's a different criticism of the argument. It comes from one of the secretaries of state, right, who would theoretically be charged with removing Trump's name from the ballot.
This is Brad Raffensperger who as you know stood up to Trump, when Trump wanted him to find the votes, right? He had stood up. He's written an entire book about it. He stood up for what was right in Georgia.
He writes in the Wall Street Journal though, this today, Professor, a process that the nice voters their chance to be the deciding factor in the nomination and election process would erode the belief in our uniquely American representative democracy. For secretary of state to remove a candidate would only reinforce the grievances of those who see the system as rigged and corrupt, and denying voters the opportunity to choose is fundamentally un-American.
Does Brad Raffensperger have a point, that the voters should be the one to make this decision?
TRIBE: I respect him but it seems to me that the Constitution has to have a say in this. Suppose Bill Clinton or Barack Obama or George W. Bush wanted a run, people supported them, they would not be able to run because they're not eligible under the 22nd Amendment.
Suppose a 30 year old wonderful you know, charismatic character wanted to run. Would it be un-democratic to keep them off of the ballot?
No, democracy is defined partly by the rule of law. To say that we shouldn't follow the disqualification clause of the 14th Amendment because we haven't had this kind of situation before, I understand that but it's not democratic. It's autocratic.
The point of this provision was that people who tried to overturn the government seized power, can't be trusted with power. Democracy does not mean trusting people with power, whatever they do. Punishing them for what they have done is a different matter, whether he should be convicted, whether he should serve his natural life in prison. That's a different matter.
But whether he should be disqualified is a pure constitutional question. The court might in the end do what Mr. Raffensperger suggests. They might find a way to say this doesn't apply to President Trump, former President Trump.
But I would love to see that opinion because the history, the text, language, over things that conservatives say they believe in and some have had the courage of their convictions to say that that's the law, I'd like to see how you consistent with that, how do you say that this provision shouldn't be enforced?
BURNETT: Well, it's a thought-provoking conversation, a thought- provoking answer there.
And thank you very much, Professor Tribe. I appreciate it.
TRIBE: Thank you, Erin.
BURNETT: And next, the incredible video of an escape killer on the run scaling a brick wall to get to freedom and here's what's crazy, it's not the first time an inmate has gotten loose from this prison, doing the exact same thing.
Plus, oil prices at a ten-month high, record high mortgage prices, rent prices as well. Inflation fears are roaring back.
BURNETT: Tonight, incredible new video released by authorities in Chester County, Pennsylvania, showing exactly how murder convict Danelo Cavalcante escaped.
You can see him walking towards doorway of the Chester County prison. Looks over his shoulder, then you see, there he is, in places his hands on the wall, feet on the other, and then basically moon walks backwards, walking up the wall, perpendicular to the ground. Pretty incredible to see standing there and there's people around the corner just happens.
Cavalcante has been serving life without parole because he stabbed his ex-girlfriend 38 times and he did it in front of her two children. Very young children.
So surrounding Pennsylvania school districts are now closed as the manhunt perimeter continues to expand tonight.
It is now though in its seventh day.
Danny Freeman is OUTFRONT.
DANNY FREEMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Tonight, astonishing new video showing the moment convicted murderer Danelo Cavalcante escaped a Pennsylvania prison. You can see the five foot, 120-pound inmate extend his arms and legs against the narrow section of the exercise yard before crab-walking up the wall to the roof. Cavalcante then pushed through multiple layers of razor wire to escape the prison.
HOWARD HOLLAND, ACTING WARDEN OF THE CHESTER COUNTY PRISON: While we believe the security measures we had in place were sufficient, they have proven otherwise. And we will quickly, we move quickly to enhance our security measures.
FREEMAN: But this is not the first time that this has happened at the Chester County prison. County officials said this escape is nearly identical to another inmate's escape at the exact same spot just four months ago. Court documents obtained by CNN, described how that inmate climbed a wall in an exercise yard and pulled himself onto the roof of the prison. But the tower officer on duty flagged that May inmate escape and he was caught in five minutes. That did not happen last week.
HOLLAND: The tower also did not observe nor report the escape. The escape was discovered as part of the inmate accounts when inmates come in from the exercise yard.
FREEMAN: The latest prison break is now being investigated internally and by the Pennsylvania attorney generals office.
Meanwhile, pressure continues to build to catch Cavalcante, still on the loose.
LT. COL. GEORGE BIVENS, PENNSYLVANIA STATE POLICE: I think that it's a very challenging area.
FREEMAN: The once small perimeter canvassed by police now rapidly expanding after another sighting Tuesday night to the southeast of the prison.
BIVENS: Everything that I'm able to see, the various sightings that we have had, other aspects of this investigation leads me to believe that he is still there in that area.
FREEMAN: Cavalcante was sentenced to life in prison last month for murdering Deborah Brandao in front of her two children, back in 2021. Newly-obtained court records show Brandao's seven-year-old daughter told police he said he would do something bad to their lives before he fatally stabbed her mother 38 times.
The children ran through neighbors for help telling police that's him, that's a guy that killed my mom.
Brandao's sister telling CNN this experience has been unbearable. I was desperate, desperate, very scared. You know that feeling of fear
within security, fear of him showing up here at home.
And while police tried to capture Cavalcante, residents are feeling the stress, too.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's just tiring, it's exhausting and just your nerves are on edge, and you just second-guess everything.
FREEMAN: Erin, tonight, Pennsylvania state police have told CNN that they have found footprints and other signs that Cavalcante is in certain areas still of this search perimeter. But while K9s have been used to try and track him down, still not luck.
Remember Erin, this terrain around the prison is still very difficult to search. There are woods, there are creeks, there are a lot of heavy areas with brush. That means there is just a lot of places to hide -- Erin.
BURNETT: All right. Danny, thank you very much. Amazing though seven days already have passed.
I want to bring in Callahan Walsh, the co-host "In Pursuit with John Walsh", alongside his father who continues his lifelong mission of capturing fugitives.
So, Callahan, I appreciate your time. I mean, this incredible video of the escape. I mean, you know, it's almost like you're watching somebody moonwalk backwards, scaling a wall. Does not even look like it is a prison from the way they are dressed and everything there. But this guy is serving life without parole.
It's been seven days. And they still don't know where he is. What does this say to you?
CALLAHAN WALSH, CO-HOST OF ID'S "IN PURSUIT WITH JOHN WALSH": Well, you know what? That the tension facility really has a lot of answers to their questions that we all have and how this guy was able to escape, especially after the fact that there was another fugitive who just escaped just recently. I heard that they brought in a third party company to up secure some of the areas and lack of security there at that facility. But obviously, it wasn't enough.
And he's out on the run. This is a real fault of that detention facility. Not only are the taxpayers now going to have to pay for the manhunt that's going on right now, entering its seventh day but they're now at risk. They are now in danger.
You have an escaped inmate who has nothing to lose, who is out there on the loose and now, there has been many sightings. Hopefully he is brought in sooner than later. I just hope nobody else gets hurt.
BURNETT: I mean, and to this point, I mean, I just want to be clear of what this person did, right? He was convicted of stabbing his girlfriend 38 times to death, killing her in front of her two young children. And he is now out, as you say with nothing to lose, trying to escape.
What do you think he is capable of if he is not caught soon or if he is, you know, cornered in some way?
WALSH: Well, he's capable of anything.
I mean, he is a convicted killer but he's also wanted in another murder back in his home country of Brazil where he brazenly shot in an individual over a debt. And he shot him six times in close range in public. This guy is a dangerous individual and he will go at nothing at this point, that it's going to stop him.
I mean, he is out on the run. He knows he's wanted in two different countries for murder. And he's a dangerous individual because of that. The public, you know, is going to be instrumental, I believe in finding him but I urge anybody who does spot him to do the right thing and call law enforcement, not take matters into their own hands.
BURNETT: So you've got a lot of experience capturing fugitives. This as you point out, a lot of -- there's been multiple sightings here. Law enforcement setting up a two-mile perimeter around a wooded area where he is believed to be holed up, a small search areas keep expanding. You know it may have gone into someone's house to get food at one point.
But do you think that he is still close by?
WALSH: I think he is, I think is traveling at night and trying to avoid some of the sightings, a lot of the video camera footage that he was spotted on was at night. So I think that he is trying to really stay under the radar and trying to use the terrain to his advantage but I have not seen a manhunt that has lasted this long with so many sightings.
I think he's going to slip up, I don't think anybody is helping him. What I want to remind the public to not only say something if they see something, but don't inadvertently helped him by leaving your car unlocked, a shed unlocked, someplace that he could get into and get supplies that helps him evade law enforcement. Please, lock your homes to protect yourself but secure your belongings outside of the home as well, so you don't inadvertently help this guy continue to elude law enforcement.
BURNETT: All right. People leaving their keys in the car.
All right. Thank you very much. Good to talk to you, Callahan.
WALSH: Thank you.
BURNETT: And next, stocks are falling as oil prices jump, raising major red flags, new inflation fears. Famed economist Larry Summers is OUTFRONT. An incredible new video into OUTFRONT tonight, Russian forces were
treating from intense gunfire from inside of the trenches. You'll see it, ahead.
BURNETT: Tonight, oil at a ten-month high. Oil trading at its highest level since November, closing at about $87 a barrel which, of course, stokes inflation fears because it means gas prices are going up. And the national average for regular gas over Labor Day weekend hit the second highest level ever, it's going into AAA. Gas prices, of course, typically fall as the summer comes to an end, but not this time.
A decision by OPEC to withhold oil supply is causing even more the stress.
OUTFRONT now, Larry Summers, former director of the National Economic Council in the Obama administration and former treasury secretary in the Clinton administration.
So, Larry, I appreciate your time.
And obviously, you've been the person the White House listens to very closely on inflation. Sometimes, let's be fair, with frustration. But they listen.
And you talked a lot about your concerns here. Are you deeply worried right now by what we are seeing? Oil prices going up, gas prices going up, as we're in an environment where production has been cut overseas and the strategic petroleum reserve here in the U.S. has not been replenished.
LARRY SUMMERS, FORMER DIRECTOR OF THE NATIONAL ECONOMIC COUNCIL UNDER OBAMA: Look, it's something to be concerned about. The question isn't so much what happens to gas prices in the near term. I suspect they're going to go off at least a bit over the next couple of weeks.
Beyond that, it's very hard to forecast. But gas prices are always fluctuating one way or the other. The questions really what's going to feed into the underlying inflation rate?
And the concern is that we've seen good news, which is tendency for inflation, expectations, core measures of inflation to come down and that's a favorable thing. And the question is, whether that's going to continue or whether this will settle off a bit of a spiral with prices chasing prices, and wages chasing wages, where inflation picks back up.
I think that's a hard thing to judge. I think the Federal Reserve has made clear that it is going to be watching very closely. That it's open to the possibility that it may need to apply more monetary policy, but it certainly hasn't come to that decision yet. And I think that's an appropriate place for them to be.
I do think it's very important that we stay focused on containing inflation --
SUMMERS: -- because I think that history suggests that there are often false dawns with respect to inflation. I think the biggest mistake that we can make would be to squander the progress that's been made and to allow inflation to really accelerate. I'm not predicting that but when you see things like what is happening with oil and gasoline, it raises those rates.
BURNETT: I mean, it is where you point -- you know, it sort of everyone's been talking about. You pointed the chart of the late 1970s and inflation. When you say false dawns, it looks identical to now.
Things started to look better. As they have now, inflation and the rate of inflation has slowed dramatically as it did then, and then, of course, there is that horrific surge and horrible economic times.
So in that context, you have correctly warned about inflation and you have warned about in these past few years saying that it was coming before others did. But you did say, Larry, that high unemployment would be needed to reduce it. And, of course, right now, even though the inflation rate has been coming down generally, unemployment remains incredibly low right? It has not taken a surge in unemployment for this to happen.
So, President Biden seemed to have you in mind this summer, Larry. He tweeted in part, quote, remember when the experts had to get inflation under control, we needed to lower wages and drive up unemployment. I never bought that.
Now, "New York Magazine" stated in the headline in June, pretty blunt on you and they said Larry Summers was wrong about inflation. Were you wrong?
SUMMERS: I don't -- I don't think we know yet. I was certainly right that inflation was going to substantially accelerate. Whether we are going to achieve the proverbial soft landing, we all hope so.
And we all would agree that the data has been favorable for the last two or three months but whether this is all going to continue without having a recession, I don't think we know the answer to that yet. Whether inflation is going to come down to the levels that the Fed has declared its target, I don't think we know the answer to that yet.
So I think it is way premature for anybody to be declaring victory and to be saying that the whole inflation problem has been unresolved without recession.
SUMMERS: Though I am certainly gratified by the fact that the numbers have come in somewhat better than I would have expected. Though I think there are a number of factors -- gasoline prices are one, treatment of health insurance and the consumer price index is another. Some very technical things about seasonal adjustments is a third, that makes me less than entirely confident that the next few numbers are going to be quite as favorable as the last few were.
BURNETT: So, President Biden as all is scheduled to leave for India tomorrow to attend the G20. And, you know, in that context, these are global issues. Housing is actually sort of -- I don't use the word crisis but there is a lot of challenges around the world, right? In the U.S., mortgage rates in August, highest level in more than two decades. Credit card, record in this country. Average loan for a new car is a record high, delinquencies and car loans are up.
All of these things are really scary. They are scary in the United States, they are scary in other countries around the world. As he heads to the G20, is there anything Biden can do there to change the economic situation?
SUMMER: Look, I don't think there's any kind of miracle that can come from a communique, but if there is a sense that comes out of this meeting that there is global cooperation around developing clean energy as an alternative to fossil fuels and service of lower energy prices. If there is a sense that there is a commitment to avoiding crises in the development world, developing world that can take a toll on growth here. If there is a sense that the global financial institutions, the IMF and World Bank them are being re-energized.
SUMMER: If there is a sense that with all the tensions, we and China can both recognize that we both have a stake in a growing prosperous markets and the other country. If there's a sense that the G20 is on the case of the global economy, I think that can help invigorates confidence always with the G20. There is a special role for the United States and, so, the responsibility and leadership is going to sit with President Biden.
BURNETT: All right. Larry Summers, thank you very much. I appreciate your time.
And next, the Kremlin accusing the U.S. of funding Ukraine's war until quote, the last Ukrainian, as Putin launches the deadliest attack on Ukraine in months.
Plus, it's now officially Hurricane Lee and it is getting steam tonight, already potentially category five. Will it make landfall in the U.S.?
BURNETT: Tonight, new video into front, filmed by the Ukrainian third assault brigade showing Ukrainian soldiers fighting from the trenches and in this, you see intense gunfire being exchange. Russian fire soldiers are firing back but then under the onslaught, they leave their positions and retreat all as you are looking at. It comes as the U.S. Secretary of State Anthony Blinken arrived in
Kyiv, announcing more than a billion dollars in new American funding for Ukraine.
Kremlin firing back with this warning.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DMITRY PESKOV, KREMLIN SPOKESMAN (through translator): They are essentially going to continue to keep Ukraine in a state of war, and to agent continue this war until the last Ukrainian, without sparing any money for it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: The last Ukrainian, Fred Pleitgen is OUTFRONT.
FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice- over): The moment a powerful missile hit a market in Kostiantynivka, Eastern Ukraine. Chaos and carnage in immediate aftermath, and while Russia has not commented on the strike, the Ukrainians say this was the work of a Russian surface to air missile used to hit ground targets.
Dozens were killed and wounded here, Kyiv says, first responders trying to help the wounded while already clearing the bodies of the dead.
An angry Ukrainian president slamming Russia's leadership.
Whenever there's any positive offensive step by Ukrainian defense forces, Russians target civilians and civil infrastructure, he says, wherever their missiles and artillery can reach.
This is what Zelenskyy means by positive steps. Ukraine's army is pressuring the Russians both on the eastern front, this video Kyiv says showing fighting at the crack of dawn near Bakhmut and in the south where Ukraine says its forces are pushing the Russians back after taking the Robotyne village and fortifying their own position.
One soldier who fought in the Robotyne recalling hiding in the village alone from the Russians ready to kill himself if they found him.
I carried a cartridge in my pocket, he says. I don't know if I could do it but I carried the cartridge. I would not surrender to capture.
On a visit to Kyiv, Secretary of State Anthony Blinken praising Ukraine's recent advances on the battlefield.
ANTONY BLINKEN, SECRETARY OF STATE: We see the important progress that is being made on the counteroffensive. That's very, very great. PLEITGEN: But Moscow says its forces are inflicting massive losses on
advancing Ukrainian troops. Despite losing territory, Russian President Vladimir Putin claiming Kyiv's offensive is failing.
This is not a mistake he says, it is a failure. At least today, this is what it looks like. Let's see what happens next. I hope that it will continue to be so.
Ukraine's leadership says they will fight for every inch of their territory and vowed to avenge the civilians killed and get another mass casualty incident near the battlefront.
Fred Pleitgen, CNN, Berlin.
BURNETT: Thanks to Fred.
And next, Hurricane Lee building momentum that could reach category five as it moves over the record warm waters. We'll be back.
BURNETT: Tonight, storm watch as recovery efforts continue in the aftermath of Idalia. Another hurricane is forming. And it could reach category five. Hurricane Lee is rapidly intensifying as it moves over ocean waters and the eastern Caribbean. They had sustained wind gusts of 75 miles per hour. They expect that to possibly double.
It's too soon to know whether Lee will directly impact the U.S. mainland. Of course, a direct hit would be absolutely devastating. Even if it isn't a direct hit, though, its effects could reverberate up and down the entire east coast.
As we watch that, thank you very much for joining us.
"AC360" begins now.