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Erin Burnett Outfront

Capitol Hill Paralyzed With No Signs Of New Speaker; New York A.G. On Trump Attacks: "Race-Baiting, Bottom Of Our Humanity"; UK Intel: Russia May Have Shot Down Its Own Fighter Jet; Suspect In Kidnapping of 9-Year-Old Girl On Bike Ride Was Arrested For Physical Domestic Dispute in 2017. Aired 7-8p ET

Aired October 04, 2023 - 19:00   ET



ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST: OUTFRONT next, the knives are out. Republicans lashing out at Republicans. McCarthy allies kicking Pelosi out of her office as retribution. This is our Congress, America.

And the Donald Trump show is over. Those are the words of the New York Attorney General Letitia James, firing back at the former president who is on trial for fraud and could well lose his business.

Plus, new troubles for Putin as video appears and we just have to show Russia shooting down one of its own prized fighter jets, as a former Russian journalist is sentenced for her bold antiwar protests on live television. She's my guest.

Let's go OUTFRONT.

And good evening. I'm Erin Burnett.

OUTFRONT tonight, chaos and fury. The House of Representatives has now been without a speaker, permanent speaker, for more than 24 hours. And right now, it's still all out mayhem, chaos on Capitol Hill. Republicans tearing into each other, blaming the group of eight, the members in their own party who kicked Kevin McCarthy out. And they're flailing to such an extent now that they are blaming Democrats.


SEN. MARKWAYNE MULLIN (R-OK): They're Republicans by name and registration only. If they were for the party, they would have done what was best for the party. Now we're not able to do anything.

REP. DERRICK VAN ORDEN (R-WI): When Matt Gaetz said I want to make sure we get appropriations bills through and get back to regular order, the only word I can describe for that is he's either a fool or a liar.

REP. CHIP ROY (R-TX): We don't have a single, with all due respect, Democrat, even I got some friends on the other side of the aisle, that are working with us.

(END VIDEO CLIP) BURNETT: Now, on this Democrat point, just to be clear, Republicans took out their own Republican speaker because the party in power picks the speaker. The other party does not help. That is not how this works.

For example, Pelosi did not get a single Republican vote. So that's not how it works.

Whatever Democrats may get in place of McCarthy, though, it's not on them that he's gone. But that is not stopping Republican ire including from McCarthy himself. Because two Republican sources are telling CNN tonight that McCarthy was the one behind the decision to kick the former House Speaker Nancy Pelosi and the former Majority Leader Steny Hoyer out of their offices.

In fact, our Jamie Gangel tonight reports that a Republican source tells her of the evictions, and I quote, Kevin is on a revenge tour, this was Kevin's call. The chaos is so bad that both sides in the Senate now are worried about what's next.


SEN. JOHN CORNYN (R-TX): Unfortunately, it means we can't do other things which I would like to be doing.

SEN. CHUCK SCHUMER (D-NY): The House can vote on no bills, no appropriations work can get done.

SEN. JOHN KENNEDY (R-LA): It's messy. There is no denying that.

SEN. DICK DURBIN (D-IL): We don't even know what's happening in the House of Representatives.


BURNETT: We don't even know what's happening.

Well, Congress has 41 days to figure out how to fund the government. But that is not getting done because Congress can't operate without a speaker. Just cannot come into session.

Border security on hold. Everything is on hold. While Republicans hash this out. And the vote on a new speaker is not happening until some time next week at the earliest.

Manu Raju is OUTFRONT on Capitol Hill.

And, Manu, these 24 hours, you have been speaking fast and furiously to anyone you can find there on the Hill. I put it in that context because of course now they're gone, again. What happens now?

MANU RAJU, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, there is a scramble happening right now behind the scenes. A leadership race is now in full shape between Steve Scalise, the House majority leader, and the House Judiciary Chairman Jim Jordan to be the next speaker of the House. Other candidates also may yet emerge flirting with the possibility of

running. But it will be no easy task to bridge the divide of this bitterly divided Republican conference, which there's a lot of finger- pointing at this moment, at those eight Republican members who joined with Democrats to oust the speaker. Some of them seeking retribution against Matt Gaetz in particular, warning that he could potentially be expelled from the Republican conference.

And others saying simply that the efforts to push out Speaker McCarthy will undoubtedly, in their view, hurt their ability to hold onto the House next November.


SEN. KEVIN CRAMER (R-ND): I think it makes the House Republican rebels look foolish. They look unserious. I think they look like they're more interested in fighting than governing.


REP. MAX MILLER (R-OH): Mr. Gaetz is only doing this for himself, and I believe that he should be looked at for an expulsion. I have not made up my mind and if I would vote to expel him.

This guy doesn't have his ducks in a row. And that's what you see with people who lie. They never keep their story straight. And that's what Matt is doing right now. He's going to continue to lie.

RAJU: What do you think of the chances of your party retaining control of the House next year, given all this disarray?

MILLER: I think it's incredible -- I think it's going to be incredibly tough.


RAJU: And there's just a lot of questions, too, Erin, whether or not the next speaker candidate can actually get to 218 votes to be elected House speaker. There are divisions within not just the personal feelings but also on some of the key policy decisions, including one key issue, whether or not to make it harder to oust a sitting speaker in the future.

Those hard liners who pushed out Kevin McCarthy want to make it easy, continue to make it easy. Others are saying they need to raise the threshold to prevent this from happening again, and also, Erin, one key policy issue -- Ukraine aid hanging in the balance. Jim Jordan telling me today that he is against more funding for Ukraine which raises a lot of concerns for Ukraine supporters on Capitol Hill about getting this through potentially under a Speaker Jordan.

BURNETT: All right. Manu, thank you very much.

I want to go now to the Republican Congressman Ken Buck. He voted to oust McCarthy. I'm also going to be speaking to the Democratic Congressman Ro Khanna in just a moment about this unprecedented chaos on Capitol Hill.

First, though, I want to begin with Congressman Buck.

And I appreciate your time, sir.

So, the House is in disarray. It could be a week or more before we know who the speaker is. The business of governing is not happening, as you and I sit here tonight. Was your vote worth that?

REP. KEN BUCK (R-CO): Erin, let's make something clear. When we got the schedule in January as to the weeks that we would be in session, we were out this week and next week in our districts doing district work. So, to say it's in disarray, it would've been in disarray if Kevin McCarthy was still speaker and we were still in our districts. We were not supposed to be convening this week or next week.

The reason we were convening or we are convening is the fact that we have not passed the appropriations bills. We didn't start working on those in May or June or July. And we didn't take any time in August to come back and work on those appropriations bills.

And the reason is very simple. This leadership team wanted to make sure that they jammed us as best they could by not passing appropriations bills and trying to pass a continuing resolution and then an omnibus, one large bill, at the end of the year. Twenty-seven years in a row, the House has not passed its appropriations bills. This year we have not passed a budget yet. The chaos and the disarray existed long before Speaker McCarthy lost the vote.

BURNETT: Well, there are many who would agree with you in that characterization. But just to be clear, it does seem a bit rich to say that because you would have been in recess anyway, it doesn't matter that there's no speaker of the House of Representatives.

BUCK: No, I'm not saying that. You're saying that we're not getting the work done in D.C., and we weren't supposed to be in D.C. this week or next week. And, so, I'm not disagreeing with you that we should get a speaker, we should move quickly, we should get someone who everybody has confidence in and will take spending seriously.

BURNETT: So, I want to ask you about those individuals in just a moment. But first, a lot of your Republican colleagues, Congressman, are placing the blame at your feet. They are. At you and the other seven who voted to oust McCarthy.

Here are a few of them.


MULLIN: You've got eight people over there that say they stand on principle and policy. It's really all about self-promotion.

REP. MIKE LAWLER (R-NY): I think there needs to be a reckoning within the conference. There needs to be accountability for the eight individuals who selfishly upended our House majority and put their own interests above the country. REP. GARRET GRAVES (R-LA): You had, in this case, eight so-called

Republicans that got together with 208 Democrats against the will of the remaining 210 Republican majority, and forced this to happen. They handed over the reins. They got schooled and used.


BURNETT: Congressman, those are your peers. They say you're engaging in self-promotion, that you're selfish, you put your own interests ahead of the country, you got schooled and used.

What do you say to your own peers?

BUCK: Well, first of all, I'm not going to engage in that kind of name-calling or accusation.

I will say this. We have not passed a budget this year. And that's disgraceful. The very people who are blaming the eight who voted against Kevin McCarthy are the same people who have held up this process so that we don't get to the point where we pass a budget, pass appropriations bills, and deal with the huge spending.

At the end of President Biden's first term in office, we will have $36 trillion of debt. The American people know that's unsustainable. I understand that the people who work and live in the swamp are very upset that the structure that has been set with special interest groups has been upended.


And for them, I hope they relax a little bit. But I am not going to step back from the position I took because the American people are squarely, squarely on our side in this issue.

BURNETT: I did promise to ask you about who you would support. I just want to be clear, would you support either Steve Scalise or Jim Jordan? And is there anyone else you'd support?

BUCK: I want to make sure that we get a speaker. I am not going to support somebody at this point. I think that my support would be not positive for anybody. So I think the best thing I can do is just to look and listen and make a decision later.

BURNETT: Well, that is very self-aware. But let me ask you one other thing quickly. Will you support somebody who is going to say I'm not going to allow one person, this whole issue with McCarthy, that one person could bring a motion to table and end up with the ouster of him as speaker. Would you be fine going back to 20 or whatever it would take? Or are you going to insist still one person to call for the ouster of the speaker?

BUCK: So, for 180 years, it was one person who can call for the ouster of the speaker. Nancy Pelosi changed that number. Kevin McCarthy agreed to five. I think five is reasonable. I think one is reasonable.

I think we need to focus on spending and not on the rules. The American people don't send us here to work on insider ball like the rules. They send us here to make sure that we deal responsibly with the issues that we have in front of us.

BURNETT: Yes, although, of course, as we have all just seen, sometimes the rules impact all of us in this country.

Thank you very much, Congressman Buck. I appreciate your time tonight.

I now want to go to the Democratic Congressman Ro Khanna.

Congressman, I want to give you a chance to respond to what Congressman Buck had to say.

REP. RO KHANNA (D-CA): Well, I actually respect Congressman Buck. He had the courage to pen an op-ed in "The Washington Post" saying that the impeachment inquiry against President Biden had no basis.

BURNETT: That is true, he did that, yep.

KHANNA: I don't agree with him on a lot of issues, but I've always found that he's an independent voice and he votes his conscience. So I've never found any reason but to have a cordial relationship with him.

BURNETT: Well, you're speaking much more nicely about him than many of his own peers are. Does that surprise you? I mean, you know, those words that we're hearing from Republicans, and I just took a few of them, but saying that the eight, self-promotion, selfish, so-called Republicans, self above country. I mean, it's ugly.

KHANNA: Erin, we have to get past the name-calling. I mean, what happened in this country to actually trying to win an argument through reason and logic and debate? I just don't like the tone of Washington where people are cursing each other out and thinking that that somehow has become fashionable, and that having fights is what is going to attract support. I mean, stand on your convictions, make an argument, and then move on, and have reasonable disagreement. That's what democracy at its best should be.

BURNETT: So, let me ask you about something else happening which fits in exactly the context of what you're talking about, which is our reporting tonight that the former Speaker McCarthy is taking away the offices of both Steny Hoyer and Nancy Pelosi, as the leaders. Republican Congressman Garret Graves tells CNN, look, the deal is the office of the preceding speaker, Speaker Pelosi and other Democrats determined they wanted a new preceding speaker, because they are blaming Kevin McCarthy.

So he is getting the office. Does any of this add up? Or is this just petty?

KHANNA: It's worse than high school or junior high school. I mean, the American people are sitting there saying we can't pay our gas bills, we can't pay our food bills, groceries cost too much, our wages aren't going up. And Congress is engaged in this kind of tit for tat? I mean, give Kevin McCarthy an office. Given Nancy Pelosi an office.

Who cares?

I think there is not a self-awareness of how out of touch this body is, how terrible we look to the American people. Anyone who thinks, oh, the Democrats won or the Republicans won has no idea what they're talking about, and most Americans think a pox on everyone's houses, Congress is dysfunctional. We've got to wake up and start governing around here.

BURNETT: All right. Congressman Khanna, thank you.

KHANNA: Thank you.

BURNETT: And next, Donald Trump versus Letitia James. The New York attorney general not shying away from a fight with the former president, as he continues to show up to his fraud trial and insult her.


LETITIA JAMES (D), NEW YORK ATTORNEY GENERAL: I will not be bullied. The Donald Trump show is over.


BURNETT: And the world's second richest man, owner of iconic luxury brands Tiffany's and Louis Vuitton under preliminary investigation over alleged ties to a Russian oligarch.

Plus, the miraculous story of the 9-year-old Charlotte Sena found alive after missing -- going missing from a camping trip with her parents. New details about the suspect in her kidnapping.



BURNETT: New tonight, quote, the Donald Trump show is over. Those are the direct words coming from the New York Attorney General Letitia James as she fires back at repeated attacks that came today from the former president in regards to that civil fraud trial here in New York.

Here is what Trump said and James' response.


DONALD TRUMP, FORMER PRESIDENT: We have a prosecutor, Letitia James, who's incompetent. You borrow money, you pay it back and you get sued by a political animal. I'm stuck here because I have a corrupt attorney general.

JAMES: Trump's comments were offensive and were baseless. They were void of many facts and evidence -- comments that I will describe as race-baiting. Comments, unfortunately, that appeals to the bottom of our humanity.

Lastly, I will not be bullied. So, Mr. Trump is no longer here. The Donald Trump show is over. This was nothing more than a political stunt, a fundraising stop.


BURNETT: Now, it is important to note that it is true, Trump has fundraised off the trial. And Trump, who you see here in this photo with a very serious look on his face, was clearly frustrated in court today, repeatedly throwing his hands up in the air sitting with his arms crossed. This comes as Trump's lawyers officially announced he will appeal the judge's ruling that he and his company engaged in persistent fraud for years.

We'll talk about the chances of success there. First, though, Barbara Res. She was an executive VP with the Trump Organization. She worked with Trump for nearly two decades and is the author of "Tower of Lies: What My 18 Years of Working with Donald Trump Reveals About Him".


All right, Barbara, you and I have talked many times over the years here. I want to start with what we just played there, right, Trump and the Attorney General Letitia James, the back and forth. She says Trump's trying to bully her and engage in race-baiting rhetoric. He does repeatedly call her a racist in general.

You know him well, right?


BURNETT: Is she right when she said --

RES: Oh, yes. He always did that. He'll say I'm the least racist person in the world. But he does love doing that. And calling her an animal, too, is a very racist thing to do.

BURNETT: Yes. So, the images today of him inside the courtroom. First of all, he didn't have to show up at all. He came on day one and people close to him said, okay, it's just one day to make his point. Then he came on day two and three.

Now he's gone for a while. We'll see when he comes back. But he was very serious today.

I mentioned that he repeatedly threw his hands up in the air during the trial. Arms crossed. But the hands being thrown up in the air. What does this say to you about how focused on this he is, how worried he is?

RES: I think that he's very concerned about what's going on, but he's playing to his audience, you know? He wants them to think that he's not afraid and that he's just, ah, this is such nonsense.

BURNETT: Throwing your hands in the air.

RES: Yeah.

BURNETT: So, the state and the defense have listed him as a possible witness, right? So in the Venn diagram of witnesses, there he is in the middle. His adult sons also, though, Don Jr. and Eric on that list. The state also lists Ivanka Trump and she was not charged because of the statute of limitations having expired as the reason.

But you believe Trump's children maybe should be more worried about him testifying than the other way around. Tell me why.

RES: Well, they both have reason to worry about the other. Trump will throw him under the bus. I have no doubt.

BURNETT: His own children.

RES: Yeah. He didn't treat them -- when they were young, or actually Eric was just a baby. But, Don, he was very cold and distant. He didn't really -- he wasn't a father -- I never thought of him as a father.

Ivana would bring the kids in the office and he'd have a fit, you know? And one time he was bragging about how they play Legos in his office. No possibly way that he'd do that.

BURNETT: No, you're saying they didn't.

RES: He didn't want them there.

BURNETT: No Lego playing.

All right. So, you know, amidst all of this, right, at the core of this and the reason perhaps he's in this trial is this is his life, this is who he is, this is his persona, this is his money, right? It's his definition of himself.

He today was dropped from the Forbes 400 list of richest Americans. Most people on that list kind of wish they weren't there because they don't want the publicity.

That's not true with him. He would call and make the case for why he should be higher on the list. Forbes saying the reason is because of his social media platform, Truth Social, and his office buildings have lost value. They say 20 percent cut to his net worth, which puts him, he doesn't make the cut off for the Forbes list.

How much does he care about this?

RES: Oh, god. I remember in the beginning, this was the first one, maybe, he was thrilled to be on the --


BURNETT: The Forbes list.

RES: Yeah. But, after that maybe a year or two, he was angry that he wasn't higher, and he called them and he was threatening to sue them.

BURNETT: He threatened to sue them because he wasn't higher?

RES: Yeah, he was walking around saying I'm going to sue them. This is wrong. This is a lie. I have much more money than this.

It was important to him. He wants people to think that he was this great businessman, he made all this money. It's kind of ironic because he wasn't a great businessman at all.

BURNETT: And now -- and now he is not on that list, and it may seem silly, but it perhaps says so much.


RES: I think he's probably very upset about that. That would have been my gut.

BURNETT: All right. Well, Barbara, thank you very much. I appreciate your time. It's good to see you.

And as I said, Barbara's book "Tower of Lies".

And I want to go now to the former Trump White House lawyer Ty Cobb.

And, Ty, so much to start with you. So let's just start talking about the civil fraud trial, the back and forth today between Trump and Letitia James.

Trump's lawyers filing a notice today, Ty, that they are going to file an appeal the judge's summary judgment, right? That's -- now, I get all my number of pages of each of these things confused in my head. But it's 40 or something, or 60 pages, right, laying out.


BURNETT: He says the systemic and persistent overvaluation of businesses over a decade. Is this appeal going to go anywhere for Trump?

COBB: So, I think it's possible that it does. Now, I say that conscious of the fact that in this decision which reads quite well that the judge put a lot of time into getting the facts straight and making this a largely factual presentation for the review of the appellate courts.


You know, it's an excellent opinion in terms of marshaling the facts. But it is a little bit aggressive in terms of the penalties, and, as we know --

BURNETT: So you're saying it's not whether he's guilty or he did it, it's on how much -- it's on the damages that you think appeal could be successful? COBB: Right. How far can you really go? And I think he has some

arguments there. On the other hand, I'm not sure that the appellate court's going to be, you know, as accommodating as Trump and his lawyers suggest.

I think the likelihood is he loses the appeal. But he does have some legal arguments and he has prevailed on appeal in this case previously, for example, with regard to the statute of limitations. So, the appellate court is not going to rubber-stamp this. I think it's likely Trump loses. But it's not a foregone conclusion.

BURNETT: All right. So, Ty, in the Fulton County case, we have some developments there as well today. Because we have learned that the D.A.'s office has now approached several codefendants about accepting plea deals, right? There's 19 totals, so they've approached several of them, including a former campaign official.

We don't know exactly who that is, but we know that to be on the list. And the context here is, one, non-central to be fair, but one defendant has already pleaded. Now, Chris Christie, who is obviously challenging Trump for the GOP nomination, is obviously a well-known former prosecutor as well, told me Friday he thinks about half of Trump's 18 codefendants will take plea deals.

Do you think he's right?

COBB: So, he may be right, but I think it's sort of a fool's errand to pick a number out of 18 that may plead guilty. I don't think any of the consequential defendants are likely to plead guilty with the possible exception of Chesebro who is adamant that he won't take a deal. But I think the unique circumstances of his case, the fact that he's about to head into trial with the world's greatest nightmare codefendant Sidney Powell, you know, that could all -- that could all affect his judgment.

And, at the same time, they may be able to offer him something as he was primarily in this and --


COBB: -- and not core to executing it, although definitely a significant player in terms of --

BURNETT: Part of the intellectual underpinnings of the argument, but not the execution.

COBB: Yes --

BURNETT: Right. So, the fact that these plea deals are happening that Fani Willis has approached multiple people for plea deals. What does that say about her situation her situation right now as the D.A.?

COBB: So, I don't necessarily think it reflects the weakness that it might otherwise appear to do, as you know, in these types of cases, plea agreements are usually available to defendants. It's usually not done in public quite like this, though. So that does look a little weak, I think.

But -- and I think the likely people to plead guilty are, you know, more of the electors and the rappers. Because I don't think the penalties will be that consequential. But I think once you get into the core players, you know, Trump/Meadows/Rudy, et cetera, I don't -- I don't see those people pleading with the possible exception of Rudy depending on what they would give him.

BURNETT: So, let me ask you about Rudy because we just found out that his attorney there is withdrawing from representing Giuliani in the Fulton County case. And obviously Giuliani is in a disastrous broader situation, right? Owing millions of dollars to other lawyers. One of his law firm suing him for more than a million dollars, and that may just be the tip of the iceberg of the sort of personal desperation which he is facing right now.

How -- how big of a problem is this for Rudy Giuliani? How much trouble is he in?

COBB: I think he's in a lot of trouble. I think it's a huge problem. I think it's -- like any American who saw him throw the first ball out at Yankees Stadium after 9/11 and thought he was America's mayor, I think this is a tragic fall, and the depths I don't think we've necessarily seen yet.

So I do think he's in great difficulty. I think he needs a very strong attorney to assist him there. But he found another lawyer in New Hampshire today to sue Biden for defamation.

BURNETT: Right, that's right. He did sue Biden for defamation. I assume that was pro bono.

Ty, thanks very much.

COBB: Great to be with you. Thank you, Erin.

BURNETT: All right. You, too.

And, next, she was arrested for this famous antiwar protest on Russian television. Remember with the sign. Now she has been just handed down an incredibly harsh sentence.


Her story in her own words, next.

And it's not just the New York attorney general. Trump's also going after the judge overseeing his fraud trial.


TRUMP: This guy's getting away with murder. He's a disgrace to people that call themselves judges.


BURNETT: Who is Judge Arthur Engoron?


BURNETT: Tonight, it is, quote, highly likely Russia shot down one of its most advanced combat jets on the southern front line, one of its own jets. That stunning assessment coming from British military intelligence. And we have video of what appears to be the wreckage of a Russian combat jet, which a pro-Wagner Telegram Channel says in an unconfirmed report, is the same jet that Russia shot down.

Now, CNN has not independently verified this video. The Russian ministry of defense has not yet commented. But it comes as Putin continues to face questions at home over his war.

The world's second richest man, the owner of luxury brands like Tiffany's and Louis Vuitton is now under scrutiny for financial dealings with a Russian oligarch.

Melissa Bell is OUTFRONT.



MELISSA BELL, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The world's second richest man is no stranger to red carpets. His name synonymous with luxury and good taste.

BERNARD ARNAULT, FRENCH BILLIONAIRE: Luxury, for me, is how can you create desire.

BELL: From Christian Dior to Louis Vuitton to Tiffany's, Bernard Arnault's luxury conglomerate LVMH includes also vineyards, restaurants, and hotels, including the Cheval Blanc Hotel in the exclusive Alpine resort of Courchevel. Now, at the heart of far less tasteful allegations centered on transactions between the French billionaire and Russian oligarch Nikolai Sarkisov, a Russian and Armenian citizen who's reported to be worth $850 million, which makes him one of the richest people in Russia. He's the co-founder of a Russian insurance company but not subject to European sanctions.

The story was first reported by the French daily "Le Monde", citing a memo allegedly drafted by the French agency responsible for combating money laundering. At the heart of the preliminary investigation, 14 properties in Courchevel bought by Sarkisov and, alone, allegedly made by Bernard Arnault, according to the memo, allegations described as absurd and unfounded by Arnault's lawyer who made a statement goes on to ask, who can seriously imagine that Bernard Arnault, who has built for over 40 years the leading French and European company, would engage in money laundering to expand a hotel.

In France, Arnault's name and his estimated $164 billion fortune go far beyond the ephemera of fashion.

TRUMP: Thank you very much.

BELL: In building his group, he's cultivated relationships with the powerful acquiring a vast media empire.

ARNAULT (through translator): La Galerie des Glaces is incredible, of course. Hosting the king of England in the Galerie des Glaces is fantastic.

BELL: But beneath the powerful connections and the glamorous brands, the allegation lingers, how far was the world's second richest man prepared to go to make his resort bigger and himself even richer?


BELL (on camera): Erin, I think it's important to note that there have been no charges brought here at all. This is very much a preliminary investigation to see whether there is the material to carry out a proper one. Also worth noting that this has nothing to do with the war in Ukraine, nor the sanctions that have been brought against Russians.

We have heard from the team around Sarkisov in that "Le Monde" report denying that he had personally anything to do with the transactions that are now at the heart of this preliminary investigation. Still, it is the name and the stature of Bernard Arnault that means that the spotlight is very much on these allegations -- Erin.

BURNETT: Absolutely. Melissa, thank you very much, in Paris.

Also tonight, a story that we have been following in Moscow tonight. Russian journalist Marina Ovsyannikova was sentenced in absentia to 8- 1/2 years in prison. You remember Marina because she's been a guest on this program many times. She's gained international acclaim.

Remember, weeks into Putin's invasion when she interrupted the live broadcast. She is the one with the sign, holding up the sign that said "no war". It was an act of bravery that has upended her entire life. She was interrogated, threatened, placed under house arrest until she and her young daughter made a daring escape to Moscow -- from Moscow to France.

And we have tonight obtained exclusive never-before-seen video of Marina and her daughter as they fled Russia. They had to change cars at least seven times to avoid detection. And then run across an open field.

I spoke with Marina earlier, and I asked her how she felt today when she learned of her 8 1/2 year prison sentence. Here's what she told me.


MARINA OVSYANNIKOVA, FORMER RUSSIAN STATE TV JOURNALIST: This is just fake justice because, you know, in Russia we don't have independent courts. Putin destroyed all independent courts.


BURNETT: I also asked Marina how she felt when she learned that her own mother who is still in Russia testified, gave evidence against her in court.


OVSYANNIKOVA: They testified against me today, and it was a shock for me. The problem is that my mommy is the same age with Putin. My mommy believes this Russian Kremlin propaganda. And she said you're a traitor of Russia and you must go to jail because you started to speak publicly against Putin. And it's very hard. It's very difficult situation.


BURNETT: It's hard because it's her own mother and her own son, too. Marina went on to say that when Putin's regime collapses, she hopes that her mother will not see her as a traitor but as a patriot fighting for a better future for Russia.


Well, next, his resume includes stints as a cabdriver and a music teacher. But now he is judge and jury in former President Trump's fraud trial. So, who is Judge Arthur Engoron?

And tonight, we are learning new details about the kidnapping of 9- year-old Charlotte Sena miraculously found alive two days after her disappearance on a bike ride. Our John Miller has new reporting, tonight.


BURNETT: Tonight, the judge in Donald Trump's civil trial losing patience with Trump's attorneys, at one point, pounding the bench and exclaiming their line of questioning was ridiculous and repetitive. It comes as Trump again attacked Judge Arthur Engoron, not even a day after the judge issued a gag order banning Trump from speaking publicly about court members.

Here is Trump today.


TRUMP: The bottom line is this is rigged. The judge already knows what he's going to do. He's a Democrat judge. In all fairness to him, he has no choice. He's run by the Democrats. He's a Democrat judge out of the clubhouses.

He's controlled and it's a shame. What's going on here is a shame.


Our whole system is corrupt.


BURNETT: So, who is Judge Arthur Engoron?

Tom Foreman is OUTFRONT.


TRUMP: This guy is getting away with murder.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have a renegade judge here.

TRUMP: He's a Democrat operative and he's a disgrace to people that call themselves judges.

TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Against a furious broad- side of attack from team Trump, Judge Arthur Engoron seems so far unfazed. And that matters because he is the man deciding what penalties Trump and his organization will pay after the judge already issued a blistering 35-page ruling, largely agreeing with the prosecutor.

JAMES: Donald Trump and the other defendants have committed persistent and repeated fraud.

FOREMAN: Raised in the New York borough of Queens not far from where Trump grew up, Engoron is a father of four, married three times. A Democrat described by "The New York Times" as independent and thoughtful, if somewhat quirky. As a young lawyer, he worked with Donald Zachrin in the 1980s.

DONALD ZAKARIN, ATTORNEY, FORMER COLLEAGUE OF JUSTICE ENGORON: He doesn't raise objections or questions to be querulous. He does it to inform himself, to challenge your own thinking so that you get to an outcome that is consistent with where the facts take you, and the law takes you.

FOREMAN: On its high school's alumni web page, Engoron paints a rollicking self-portrait of a man interested in history, photography, chess, soccer, and philosophy. A former cabdriver who took up law and spent several years as a piano and drum teacher and who is still a huge fan and follower of rock and roll.

His ruling sometimes quotes song lyrics and are signed with an A.E. in a whimsical circle.

Still, Engoron's ruling struck a serious blow to Trump's longstanding claims about the value of his properties and his personal wealth, calling it all a fantasy world concocted to get good terms for loans and insurance.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It doesn't look to me like Donald Trump is getting a fair trial in New York City. What say you?

FOREMAN: That has conservative media sounding alarms.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The judge is as guilty as -- is more guilty than Trump at having a phony valuation of that property.

FOREMAN: But has fear of the penalties from this judge muzzled Trump? Not yet. TRUMP: This is a judge that some people say could be charged

criminally for what he's doing. He's interfering with an election. And it's a disgrace.


FOREMAN: Super interesting in all of this, the way the former president is raging about what has happened here and sounding off again and again and again. From all indications, the judge really is just taking this in stride.

He seems at ease. He's talking to people in the court. And those who have known him in the past say, yeah, that's very much in keeping with him. He is a man who is guided by clever insights, by a lot of attention to the facts, and, in the end, they say, a great sense of fairness no matter if people are happy about it or mad -- Erin.

BURNETT: Well, he is a fascinating character. That is a fascinating description that he even writes about himself.

All right. Thank you very much, Tom.

FOREMAN: You're welcome.

BURNETT: And, next, we're learning new details about how police tracked down the man who kidnapped Charlotte Sena who went missing after going on a bike ride, and what we're now learning tonight about the suspect's past.

Plus, an OUTFRONT milestone.


BURNETT: We made the calls and we found tonight's OUTFRONT five.


BURNETT: We're celebrating 12 years on the air.



BURNETT: Tonight, disturbing new details about the man accused of kidnapping 9-year-old Charlotte Sena from a park in Upstate New York. We are now learning that Craig Nelson Ross Jr. has been arrested multiple times, once after domestic -- a physical domestic dispute, sorry, in 2017, and he was also charged with drunken driving in 1999.

It comes, as we understand, police at this hour are still waiting to interview Charlotte about what happened during her abduction. She was riding her bike during a family camping trip when she was taken by Ross, and she was, of course, found alive nearly 48 hours later, hidden in a cupboard in this rundown camper which was just 14 miles from her home.

So, our chief law enforcement and intelligence analyst John Miller joins me now.

John, you have a lot of sources who know a lot about what's going on here. You're learning more about how they found her. What is the latest that you know?

JOHN MILLER, CNN CHIEF LAW ENFORCEMENT AND INTELLIGENCE ANALYST: Well, finding her was really when that ransom note was dropped off and identifying the print and identifying where that person was. But they had multiple buildings. They had to do simultaneous, you know, SWAT raids because you don't know what building she's in or what building he's going to be in.

But right now, the case actually turns inside out, because now that they have her back, they have to build a case against him. Usually, it's the other way around, but they need to recover her quickly for her safety. So, that means the video canvass that shows everywhere that a camera captured his truck going from the kidnap site back to his home, any cellular signals that are captured by towers that can match those travels, the same with the distance from his trailer to where the ransom drop was because they have to actually paint a picture of his travels and his movements that match when she disappeared, where she ended up, and where the note was dropped off and back.

BURNETT: All right. So, obviously, they have not yet interviewed her, and she's nine years old, she's young. But they've got to be very careful about how they do that. And yet, she could be the key to what happened, whether this was just a kidnapping, whether this was a horrific sex crime. We don't know.

When do they expect to be able to hear her story?

MILLER: Well, soon. But they wanted to be cautious about how and when they did it. Interviewing a t 9-year-old child victim of a traumatic event, a kidnapping that went on for, you know, a number of days is something where they want to make sure that they have people who have been specially trained in trauma informed interview techniques and who have been specially trained in interviewing young children.


Those interviews are fraught with peril, depending on how you ask the questions and the follow-ups. They can be suggestive, where a child can be giving you the answers they think you want.

BURNETT: They think you want, right. It's also what, right.

MILLER: Exactly. So, they'll use their best and their brightest, who have the latest training in these techniques, you know, that are documented and peer-reviewed and hope to get those answers.

BURNETT: All right. John, thank you very much. John Miller.

And next, celebrating a milestone. OUTFRONT turns 12, and we've been around the world with you.


BURNETT: And finally tonight, a milestone for us. We're celebrating 12 years with the OUTFRONT team. We've covered a lot of ground in the past 12 years, across the U.S. and around the world. OUTFRONT from places like Ukraine, and Afghanistan, Cuba, Iran, UAE, Burkina Faso.

And we ended our first show back in 2011 with this message.


BURNETT: We picked the name OUTFRONT as a mission statement. Hey, we'd like it to be a verb, you know, how do you OUTFRONT this story or that story? OUTFRONT means original reporting, creativity, energy, stories that we are passionate about and that you care about.


BURNETT: Well, we said that on day one, and we hope that we have stayed true to that mission, as our team, and true to you.

Thank you all so much for watching, and, of course, thank you for being with us tonight, as you are hopefully most nights.

"AC360" with Anderson Cooper begins right now.