Return to Transcripts main page
Erin Burnett Outfront
Israel Rejects Calls For Ceasefire: "Time For War"; Three Women Appear In New Hostage Video Released By Hamas; U.S. Forces In Iraq & Syria Face At Least 23 Attacks Amid Israel Crisis; Judge Reinstates Trump Gag Order In DOJ Election Case; L.A. Fire Department: Matthew Perry Found Dead In Jacuzzi. Aired 7-8p ET
Aired October 30, 2023 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST: OUTFRONT next, Israeli troops pushing deep into Gaza. This as an Israeli soldier is rescued. And Hamas releases a new hostage video. We're going to speak to the family of one of the women in that video.
Plus, OUTFRONT's exclusive dispatches from Gaza. Tonight, an America doctor from Colorado stuck there tells us fights are breaking out, violence over food.
Also breaking this hour, the Los Angeles Fire Department just releasing new details about what officials found when they arrived at Matthew Perry's home, as a cast of "Friends" breaks its silence this hour.
And good evening. I'm Erin Burnett.
OUTFRONT tonight, the breaking news -- this is a time for war. Those are the exact words tonight from the prime minister of Israel, Benjamin Netanyahu, as Israeli troops and tanks advanced deeper into Gaza. There is more gunfire, more explosions reporting here tonight. A longtime Israeli reporter Barak Ravid of "Axios" are telling OUTFRONT that more than 10,000 troops have now crossed into the tiny 25-mile- long Gaza Strip.
This is a major advance, now putting Israel's troops on the outskirts of Gaza City, which just in and of itself is home to half a million people. Israel claims it's not only killed dozens of Hamas fighters over the last 24 hours, but also managed to rescue one of its own soldiers.
They say the Private Ori Megidish was freed earlier today. She is back home, but the other 238 hostages, the fate of how they are tonight held by Hamas, we do not know. We simply do not to know.
We do know there was a video today of three of them. They appeared in a short video that Hamas released. We are choosing not to air it.
But one of the women in it is Rimon Kirsht. And in a moment, I'm going to speak to her sister-in-law who did watch that video, and is now more terrified about Kirsht's safety, because, of course, the world has seen the horrific brutality that Hamas unleashed.
Just today, Israel confirming that they have now found the remains of 23-year-old Shani Louk. She was at the music festival when Hamas attacked. Her body was later seen in the back of a truck. So her family hoped she was a hostage.
A source though is telling CNN that a DNA sample, taken from a fragment of a skull that was found shows that that skull fragment was Louk's. A fragment of a skull. It's all they have.
To even contemplate what that means is crushing blow to her family. They have, of course, been holding out hope, that she was actually a hostage in Gaza. Gaza right now though of course is being bombarded by Israeli forces and all the hostages are there as well.
According to the World Health Organization, there have been 82 attacks on Gaza health care facilities since the war began, 82 attacks on health care facilities. At least 16 medical workers have been killed. We do not know how many innocent people have been killed in all of those strikes. That they are adding to a growing humanitarian crisis.
Today, CNN counted 59 trucks waiting to cross into southern Gaza, at the Rafah border crossing, keep in mind, 59 waiting, not getting in, 455 trucks is what usually would go into Gaza every single day. That's why you have people fighting over food, literally fighting over food. We're going to tell you more about that in a moment.
But in an exclusive new dispatch from inside Gaza, our journalist Ibrahim Dahman had sent us new video about life right now inside the strip, and his fears about dying.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
IBRAHIM DAHMAN, CNN JOURNALIST (translated): Food is scarce where we are staying. We cook and share whatever we can. We teach the children, too, so that if we are killed, they can feed themselves.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: We're going to have more from Ibrahim coming up this hour, but first, Nic Robertson is OUTFRONT live along the Israel Gaza border.
And, Nic, what is the latest you're hearing on the ground tonight?
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: Yeah, we're hearing from Israeli prime minister laying out why the country is at war, why the world should stand behind Israel, why he won't have a cease-fire. The strikes into Gaza have been very heavy in the last few hours, but this glimmer of hope that we are seeing for the potential for more hostages to be released from captivity, rescued from captivity. That hope really came alive today for the first time.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) ROBERTSON (voice-over): The moment they feared might never come. Private Ori Megidish hugs her grandmother, reunited with her family, rescued by the IDF after more than three weeks, held hostage by Hamas.
A moment of hope, too, for families of other hostages.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: In some way, they are listening to us right now. Please, please stay strong.
ROBERTSON: But even as Megidish met her family, Hamas propagandized three hostages they still hold, seen here before their capture. The Hamas video CNN has decided not to air shows the women under apparent duress, blaming the prime minister for not calling a cease-fire to help get them released.
Netanyahu unrelenting in refusing Hamas's pressure.
BENJAMIN NETANYAHU, ISRAELI PRIME MINISTER: Just as the United States would not agree to a cease-fire, after the bombing of Pearl Harbor, or after the terrorist attack of 9/11, Israel will not agree to a cessation of hostilities with Hamas.
ROBERTSON: Inside Gaza, Israeli forces reinforcing that message, extending their incursion deeper into the enclaves densely populated neighborhoods. Ground troops, according to the IDF, calling in airstrikes on Hamas strongholds. Aircraft also dropping flyers, warning civilians their neighborhoods now a battlefield and to evacuate south.
This civilian-looking vehicle didn't manage to escape taking a direct hit from a tank. The IDF say impossible to know if it contained civilians or terrorists.
The mounting civilian death toll and deteriorating humanitarian conditions fueling international pressure on Israel to call a cease- fire.
Netanyahu insisting his is a just war.
NETANYAHU: It means making a moral distinction between the deliberate murder of the innocent, and the unintentional casualties that accompany every legitimate war.
ROBERTSON: As night falling, more and more Gaza's residence on the move, many in makeshift camps, all of them just hoping they'll see the sun rise.
ROBERTSON (on camera): And what the prime minister was telling, and what the IDF has been telling the people of Gaza to do is to move south and the prime minister indicating that there is an area designated, a humanitarian corridor designated in the south of the country, and the south of Gaza rather right next to the sea.
But the question a lot of people are having right now, Erin, is just how did they get there? What roads are the safe roads? They don't know what perils they're going to meet. The ground troops are on the ground. And as that car found out today, a wrong turn can be deadly -- Erin.
BURNETT: Absolutely. Nic, obviously hearing those explosions and impacts behind you, how would you say tonight is different or maybe as we, know this is expanding as we speak, can you tell that from what you hear right now?
ROBERTSON: Earlier in the day it was fighter jets, dropping guided munitions on these pinpoint targets that these soldiers are identifying on the ground. Later this evening, we saw what we believed were helicopters firing more precision rockets, smaller explosives down on to targets right below them in Gaza. And now, this heavy artillery has just been rumbling away, sometimes 20, in total, going every 20 seconds or so.
But the decimation coming from it deep, deep penetration destinations that are rumbling through here. So, it is clear, the military pressure is continuing on the people of Gaza. As though all of this was going into northern Gaza, it is really creating and pushing the people to try and move further south -- Erin.
BURNETT: All right. Nic, thank you very much, in Sderot, right along that Gaza border tonight.
And I want to go now to Barak Ravid. He is a foreign policy reporter, Middle East expert for "Axios", longtime Israeli diplomatic reporter as well.
So, Barak, we hear those artillery explosions. You heard Nic talking about precision munitions drop by helicopters as well.
I know you have new information on the operation in Gaza, troop levels. What are you learning?
BARAK RAVID, AXIOS FOREIGN POLICY REPORTER; LONGTIME ISRAELI REPORTER: Good evening, Erin. I think that right now, the situation in Gaza is that the Israeli ground operation you know, we heard in the last few days it expanding, I think it is sort of reaching its height.
Meaning, I'm not sure Hamas already knows how many Israeli soldiers are there. They are hiding in their bunkers. But I think right now, we are looking at much more than 10,000 Israeli soldiers inside Gaza. I would, my assessment, my estimate is that it is more than double that number.
And I think we saw the Israelis coming in from the north, both on the Gaza beach, but also more to the east. But now I think there are also Israeli ground troops also coming to Gaza, from the center of the Gaza Strip.
So basically what the Israelis are doing right now, they are encircling Gaza City, still in the outskirts of the dense urban area. But I think in the next few days, we will start seeing this much more dramatic incursion into Gaza City. This is when this thing is going to get much more difficult.
BURNETT: And just to be clear, Barak, if you are saying there is more than 20,000 troops? They are staying there, right? I mean, they're not -- it's not sort of like a wave in and out. This is staying and adding?
RAVID: Yes, this is not a raid. Meaning, it's not that the forces will go out, and in 24 hours or 48 hours. This is going to take weeks. They're there to stay. They're there to stay for quite some time in order to start going into Gaza City, into Hamas strongholds.
Until now, in the last few days, since the ground operation started. There was nothing, a few firefights between Israel and -- between the IDF and Hamas. But again, it was not a massive fight. We are in the next few days going into the massive fight. This is the money time. This is the real difficult part.
BURNETT: Barak, we did see the new video today of the three Israeli civilian hostages together. We're not showing it, but we have seen it, you have seen it I know. It also comes as the IDF was able to rescue an IDF soldier today.
Do you know anything about that? What are you able to tell us?
RAVID: I think that this is, if you ask Israeli officials right now about this operation, they will tell you one thing. They will tell you that this would not have been possible without the ground operation.
Because now they have a lot of forces on the ground, they have much more intel that they can use within minutes to some troops here, to send troops somewhere else. Everything is on a short order. And this is how they managed to do this operation.
They got the hint. They got the clue. They got to lead. They send soldiers and they managed to do it.
BURNETT: All right. Barak, thank you very much. I appreciate it, sharing all of that new reporting.
You hear Barak say now more than 20,000 Israeli soldiers in Gaza tonight with his reporting.
The three women in that new hostage video I mention tonight had been identified. They are Danielle Aloni, Rimon Kirsht, and Yelena Trupanob.
Yael Nidam is the sister-in-law of Rimon Kirsht, she joins me now.
And, Yael, I know you did watch this video. What is your reaction to it?
YAEL NIDAM, SISTER-IN-LAW OF WOMAN IN HAMAS HOSTAGE VIDEO: You know this video, it's another cause of heartbreak for me because, on one hand, I can see my sister in that video. I can see she is alive in that video, but on the other hand, that video was released by a terror organization that kidnapped my sister and her husband from their home, from their beds.
And so, I -- maybe I know she was alive for that moment, I don't know if that video was edited a don't know what her status is. I can see in the video she's not wearing glasses so I know that she was probably not able to see in the past three weeks.
She also looked very skinny. I've never seen her that thin. So I'm really concerned about her health. I also know she takes daily medication which I'm sure she is not getting because the Red Cross has not been allowed to visit the hostages and tell us about their well- being, which I'm really concerned for her health.
I think she looks bad and I really worry about her sitting there in some underground tunnel in Gaza for who knows how long being held at gunpoint.
BURNETT: I know you said you're where this was filmed, she would've been alive and it gives you one moment of time.
You don't know how she is now but obviously you haven't had any proof of life until now. Has the ground assault as it gets bigger and bigger as it seems to every single day, Yael, what are you feeling right now?
NIDAM: All I can say is that I hope everyone who is making any kind of decisions about what to do, what to do with the army, what to do with the people, what is the strategy, is seeing the picture of our hostages, of our loved ones, of Rimon and Yagev, just as clearly as I see them every moment, and that they are thinking about them, thinking about the hostages and thinking about what can they do to bring them back home as soon as possible.
BURNETT: I know that there were some very forceful statements made against the Israeli prime minister Benjamin Netanyahu in this video. The woman who says them and speaks that is addressing Netanyahu directly. And I guess the word to describe it is with fury. With increasing fury, she says, you promised to release us all, free us all and then she begins screaming into the camera, now, now, now.
Now, it is important to say we do not know how willingly she is giving these remarks. We don't know how much of her statement may have been dictated by Hamas, right? We just don't know any of these things. And obviously, the person saying this is -- you know, these aren't the words of your sister-in-law.
What -- what do you make of these statements when you watch this part?
NIDAM: You know, Erin, just like you just said, we don't know you know who is making them say what they're saying, and the only thing that I know for certain is that there is a terror organization holding our loved ones at gunpoint. And so, whatever it is that they released, whatever footage is released, I don't think it's credible and I don't -- I can't put my trust into whatever it is. I know that's -- my loved ones that seem to be free people peaceful
people are being held captive and are being forced to be pawns in a game of war played by Hamas. And so, I see them use this propaganda for Hamas. That's all I can see in that video.
BURNETT: Yael, thank you very much.
NIDAM: Thank you.
BURNETT: And next, new details about U.S. forces under attack in the Middle East, increasingly targeted by Iranian-backed groups. Is the U.S. going to respond?
Plus, exclusive dispatches from inside Gaza, from the people that we follow closely that you now know, including aid worker Mahmoud Shalabi.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MAHMOUD SHALABI, AID WORKER IN GAZA: One simple rocket, just one rocket that hit a home without warning.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: And Trump tearing into his former attorney general just hours after a judge reinstated his gag order. So, Trump just violated. His former White House lawyer Ty Cobb is my guest.
BURNETT: New tonight, targeting the United States.
Tonight, top U.S. officials are warning of an elevated risk of a bigger war. U.S. forces in Iraq and Syria have been attacked, they now say, by Iranian-backed groups, at least 23 times since the Hamas terror attacks in Israel, October 7th.
Oren Liebermann is OUTFRONT, at the Pentagon tonight.
Oren we hear about more of these every single day. How likely is it that the United States that has to respond, has to retaliate after nearly two dozen attacks?
OREN LIEBERMANN, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Erin, the Biden administration has certainly left that possibility on the table, although they're not going to predict how or if you will respond, nor in what matter. The part is up to them. But it's clear that these attacks have continued, 23 now since October 17th against U.S. forces in Iraq and Syria. You can see that map shows you the various locations, worth noting that some of those locations have been attacked multiple times.
Now what's also important to note is that the U.S. struck two facilities used by these Iranian-backed militias in eastern Syria to try and send a message to these groups not to continue attacking and yet we have seen a half a dozen attack since then. So that message of deterrence, not getting through in the way the U.S. would like it to. And that means the U.S. has to consider the possibility of another strike against these groups. But they have to weigh that against the possibility of a broader escalation in Iraq and Syria, which is very much something they're trying to avoid.
Erin, the U.S. has tried to keep the conflict in Gaza separate from what is doing in other parts of the Middle East, trying to draw a line there. But that line clearly not visible to other actors in the Middle East. You see it all as connected.
BURNETT: Yeah, certainly.
All right. Oren Lieberman, thank you very much. This is a sobering reality here.
Shlomi Eldar is OUTFRONT, Israeli journalist who's reported extensively on Hamas, the author of "Getting to Know Hamas". He spoke, of course, with senior Hamas commander on the day of the terror attacks, and is familiar now to everyone who watches this show.
So, Shlomi, all right, the Israeli ambassador to the United States tonight just played, you know, these 45 minutes of horror and slaughter, that was all recorded on the GoPro cameras of Hamas operatives. They recorded it themselves on October 7th. They recorded the Israeli ambassador saying very specifically because they thought it would be a great tool. They want to replace, they think it will help recruiting.
SHLOMI ELDAR, ISRAELI JOURNALIST: Yes. I think that the Israelis know that if they show the video that was taken by the terrorist camera, it will show the cruelty of Hamas the people of Gaza and Israeli settlements. But I think that one more thing we have to take for consideration that Hamas was surprised, the success they had on October 7th. Now they are planning on how to get from this mess all the time they tried to play with the public opinion by releasing the videos, the videos of the hostages.
And we talked about it last week. The hostages kept by Hamas, but Jihad Islamic. And we get the proof that we have hostages captured by families in Gaza street.
The Israeli soldiers that the IDF and the Shin Bet succeeded to release yesterday, it's proof that there are more than one soldier kept by the families in Gaza, inside Gaza.
The problem now is the negotiations with Hamas and Jihad Islamic, and this is the tough negotiation.
BURNETT: So, we knew, though, that there was a video released today, the three women. That they don't look well according to the sister-in- law with one of them with who I just spoke, right? She said her sister does not look well.
We are not airing the video, but you have a woman pleading, screaming for their release. This is what's on it. Israel obviously has rejected a ceasefire in exchange for any hostages, Shlomi, we know that. What is Hamas do if videos like this don't work as they see it? What did they do then?
ELDAR: Well, this is only the beginning of releasing videos. It seems to me that Hamas is under pressure. They're under pressure, but not desperate, because they have a weapon, a weapon against the Israeli tanks and the Israeli airplane. They have more than 200 hostages.
And the video of the hostages now, it's kind of telling, or blaming or been begging to Netanyahu release us, and the other video would be more cruel. I'm sure as they feel the pressure, they can use the hostages to pressure on the Israeli government.
And this is the biggest dilemma -- the worst dilemma that any prime minister in Israel, since Israel was established. It's the -- and Israeli history to decide the priority, the war on Hamas, destroying Hamas or releasing the hostages. And it's not goes together.
Every citizen in Israel must know, it's -- we are trapped between a stone and a hard place. This is the main dilemma.
BURNETT: All right. And, of course, now, obviously the choice appears to be war but they are hoping they can get out of that, the rock and a hard place as you put it.
Shlomi, thank you very much.
And next, exclusive dispatches from Gaza, an American doctor from Colorado stuck in Gaza, tells OUTFRONT that there are it's now violent fights breaking out over food. And we'll also hear from our CNN colleague Ibrahim Dahman.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DAHMAN: We pass the time by watching airstrikes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Plus, breaking news, we are learning how firefighters found Matthew Perry when they arrived at his home.
BURNETT: Tonight, fights breaking out over food. That is what's happening outside of a U.N. compound in southern Gaza. According to a husband of an American doctor who is inside that compound.
Dr. Barbara Zind, the Colorado based pediatrician who story we've been following closely is still in Gaza, still trapped there, but no longer at the U.N. facility. Her husband Paul tells OUTFRONT that Dr. Zind had to leave due to, quote, increased violence outside the U.N. facility, as other displaced people were fighting over food. Also, she doesn't know where his wife is going now. They say the situation is desperate, increasingly dangerous.
Just even think about that, people are fighting over food, that's what's happening. And it comes as Mahmoud Shalabi, the aid worker we've been speaking to sent OUTFRONT a dispatch from northern Gaza where he still remains, at his home with his wife and three young children. He says the house 65 feet away from his home was just bombed. The widespread devastation that you're looking at right now is video that Mahmoud took at his neighborhood and sent us.
He sent us this message detailing the situation there.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SHALABI: One simple rocket, just one rocket that hit a neighbor's home without warning and totally destroyed that neighbor's home and around seven adjacent homes around it.
My neighborhood is fully the color gray, I hate the color gray now. Everything is covered in rubble.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: I hate the color gray now, the thing that stick with you.
Our CNN colleague Ibrahim Dahman is in southern Gaza with his family. He says he is now teaching his very young children how to survive in case he and his wife are killed.
DAHMAN (translated): My family fled northern Gaza but we still don't feel safe.
What's wrong? Don't be afraid.
Every night, airstrikes hit Khan Younis.
With no sense of time, the days roll into one.
We pass the time by watching airstrikes.
There are too many to count.
This used to be someone's home.
Now, they're likely become one of the dead.
Strangers volunteer to search for their remains.
Food is scarce where we are staying.
We cook and share whatever we can.
We teach the children, too, so that if we are killed, they can feed themselves.
The thanks are filled with impure water. We try to keep our spirits up.
There is comradery in the chaos.
The explosions became louder this weekend as Israel expanded its ground operation, leaving us in a blackout.
Only Israeli phones worked, so some tried to keep a sense of normalcy.
All I could think of was my parents' safety and pray my family made it through the night.
But even in a war zone, there is light in the darkness. My wife is three months pregnant.
Just like our sons, this baby has the power to turn our fear into joy.
BURNETT: Gaza is not the only place Palestinians are living in fear. Before leaving Israel, I traveled east Jerusalem and where many Palestinians are scared of what will happen to them.
BURNETT (voice-over): The call to prayer over Jerusalem echoing over what normally packed streets now nearly empty.
Saleh Mikwali (ph) says he comes to his shop only for a change of scenery, because no one is buying anything, he says.
Palestinians telling us they are afraid of Israeli police, essentially living under curfew.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): They have crossed all the red lines. They used force and arrest people for silly things like a photo on your phone.
BURNETT: Young children were the only people we sought out in any noticeable numbers, because young men are afraid. We went to talk to them in east Jerusalem. They were terribly afraid to speak on camera.
Mohammed told us God makes you happy, a way of saying I am sorry I cannot speak if I do, he adds, I will go to jail.
And one of them showed us why they believe this. This is a TikTok video on his phone. It has gone viral among young Palestinian men.
He says Israel is planning a new law to revoke citizenship or national ID for anyone who supports terrorism.
And it's true, Israeli cabinet officials are proposing such a law.
And to these young men, it means they can be arrested for anything. They tell us they will go to jail if they have a Quran verse on their home screen, or post a picture of a dead Palestinian.
We looked up the current Israeli law, it reads in part, anyone who commits an act of identifying with a terror organization, including through publicizing praise, support, or affinity, waving a flag, showing or promoting a symbol, or showing playing or promoting a slogan or anthem, the judgment is three years imprisonment.
In fact, since the war began, Israel has already arrested many hundreds of young Palestinian men, giving the simple explanation that they are quote affiliated with Hamas.
The fear is pervasive. One young man named Faisal was afraid. He told us he was recently released from 18 months in prison after he says he was arrested at a protest near Jerusalem's Al Aqsa Mosque. One group of young men told us they had been beaten by police along this wall, at the bottom of their street.
But the men were hospitable to us. Some gave us water and refused to take money, even though they say there is no business, no money. No livelihood for them now.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): The situation is scary everyone is afraid. Young people, they have passion. They are not happy with the situation. They say this is our country, what are they going to do us? This is ours.
BURNETT: We did reach out several times to Israeli police, asking if Palestinians are being arbitrarily arrested and what crimes they are being charged with. The Israeli police have not responded to our requests.
OUTFRONT next, a major week in Trump's fraud trial that could kill his family business empire. His kids now planning to take the stand this week. Former Trump White House lawyer Ty Cobb is OUTFRONT.
Plus, the breaking news. The cast of "Friends" breaking their silence tonight after the death of their friend and costar, Matthew Perry.
BURNETT: Tonight, a gag order back on for Donald Trump. The judge overseeing the DOJ's election interference trial reinstating a ban on Trump, saying anything that target special counsel's team -- the special counsel's team or potential witnesses applies. Statements that drew the judge's ire in the first place include Trump's Truth Social media posts, like this, one quote, all caps: If you go after me, I'm coming after you.
Well, OUTFRONT now, Trump's former White House lawyer, Ty Cobb.
Ty, I appreciate your time.
So, the judge is now re-imposing this gag order to stop Trump from making public statements like I just mentioned. But then right after she made the ruling, he goes and he posts about his former attorney, Bill Barr, and I quote, Ty, I called Bill Barr dumb, weak, slow moving, lethargic, gutless and lazy, and all caps, a RINO who couldn't do the job.
Bill Barr is obviously relevant in all of these cases. Obviously, a potential witness.
Did Trump already violate the gag order?
TY COBB, FORMER TRUMP WHITE HOUSE LAWYER: Yes. I mean, it's a simple order. You know, it's less than -- I mean, it's a short paragraph prohibiting him from targeting any foreseeable witness or the substance of the testimony, and clearly, he's done that. Even while in advance, he did this to Ellis, Chesebro, Powell and Meadows and he'll keep doing it until he provokes, you know, a penalty far greater than he suffered so far in the process.
BURNETT: So, Trump's New York fraud trial is entering a consequential week amidst all of this. His children are scheduled to testify about accusations that Trump inflated his wealth by billions of dollars to get loans. Don Jr. testifies Wednesday, Eric on Thursday, Ivanka on November 8th. Interestingly, Donald Trump himself is slated to take the stand on Monday, if he does so.
Whose testimony do you think will be most consequential?
COBB: Well, I think Trump will be most sequential, of course, if he actually testifies. I think that is the real question should hear. Will his lawyers let him testify? I can't imagine why they would. On the other hand, he doesn't necessarily listen to his lawyers. May override him and insist on testifying.
Secondly, I think -- you know, in my time at the White House, I worked closely with Ivanka on some things. I found her a very conscientious, smart, capable and honest, and I think she's put a little more distance between herself and the business and her brothers, neither of whom do I have any reason to believe we'll slant their testimony. But I have a high degree of confidence that if Ivanka testifies, she will testify truthfully.
BURNETT: So, Ty, I want to ask you about one --
BURNETT: Yeah. Sorry, go ahead.
COBB: I was going to say one thing on that.
COBB: I mean, I think it's possible there will be an appeal on Ivanka's testimony because I think it's a much closer call than the trial judge did in terms of her being required to testify.
BURNETT: Ty, one other thing I want to ask you about just a quick follow here before we go, on the point about the gag order, what do you think is next?
BURNETT: Right? I mean, so the gag order went away for nine days. It gets reinstated. It says things about Bill Barr, well, he got fined $10,000. For him, that's, you know, pennies no matter what his real wealth is, it still pennies.
So what -- where does he end up on this?
COBB: Well, the New York judge fined him $10,000. That's in a civil case. You know, that's not as consequential as Judge Chutkan's case.
I think Judge Chutkan, you know, prudently allowed Trump to try to persuade her to extend the gag order, she concluded on the basis of his conduct this week not to do so.
And I think she will come in with a much heavier penalty and ultimately I think he'll spend a night or a weekend in jail.
COBB: I think it's going to take that. I think it will take that to, you know, to stop him.
BURNETT: Wow. That'll be an incredible thing to actually see happened. But you think that's where it goes?
COBB: I do.
BURNETT: All right. Ty Cobb, thank you very much. I appreciate it as always. Good to see you.
COBB: Great to talk with you, Erin.
BURNETT: All right.
And next, new details about the what the L.A. Fire Department found when they arrived at Matthew Perry's home, as the cast of "Friends" breaks its silence.
Plus, new details about the Army's medical evacuation of the Maine gunman who killed 18 people, a disturbing evaluation months before his rampage.
[19:51:05] BURNETT: Tonight, Matthew Perry's "Friends" costars breaking their silence after his death, saying in a statement, quote, we are also utterly devastated by the loss of Matthew. We were more than just cast mates. We are a family.
And it comes as we're learning new details about Perry's death. The Los Angeles Fire Department saying a bystander, that's the word they used, moved his head about water after was discovered unconscious in a hot tub at his home.
Of course, beyond his role on "Friends", the 54-year-old was also known for being open about his lifelong struggles with addiction.
Stephanie Elam is OUTFRONT.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: One ticket to Yemen?
MATTHEW PERRY, ACTOR: Oh, no, no. No, no, no, no. I just need a -- I just need a pretend ticket.
STEPHANIE ELAM, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Beloved for his relatable charm --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you have to stay?
PERRY: American Express?
ELAM: -- Matthew Perry's humor often hid his personal pain of addiction. In the pages of his 2022 memoir, Perry revealed that his darkest days --
PERRY: Would give me underpants.
ELAM: -- began as the star burned bright on the mega hit show "Friends".
PERRY: Okay, Jeff. It's a long story.
ELAM: Movie roles followed and on the set of 1997 "Fools Rush In", a jet ski accident changed Perry's life forever.
PERRY: A doctor gave me a pill in a package and to take this when you're done shooting. And I did and then I felt this incredible euphoria.
ELAM: Perry said that set him off on a constant quest for Vicodin. Even as he won America's heart playing Chandler Bing.
PERRY: I would look in the paper, look at open houses on Sundays. And I would go, and I would go upstairs, to the medicine room and then you look at the dates, you know? If the dates are old and there's still a lot of pills, you can take a lot of them. As I drove off, I was like, nobody's going to say Chandler just stole drugs from my medicine cabinet. LISA KUDROW, ACTRESS: Should we do something?
PERRY: Yeah, never cheat on Rachel.
ELAM: Perry points to clips from season three of "Friends" when his excessive pill use led to his notable weight loss. About the final episode of season three, he wrote in his memoir, you will see that I am wearing a white shirt and tan slacks. Both look at least three sizes too big for me.
Perry said he was taking 55 Vicodin pills a day by the end of that season, leading to the first of 65 detox attempts in his life.
JULIA ROBERTS, ACTRESS: Is your name Chandler?
PERRY: Yes, yes, it is.
ELAM: Insecurity also plagued Perry at this time. While dating Julia Roberts who appeared on "Friends", he broke up with her unexpectedly writing I was broken, bent, unlovable. Instead of facing the inevitable agony of losing her, I broke up with the beautiful and brilliant Julia Roberts. I can't begin to describe the look of confusion on her face.
JOY BEHAR, TV HOST: It talks about how you began drinking at 14 years old?
PERRY: That's right.
ELAM: Addiction, he theorized, could have stemmed from being given drugs as a colicky baby, and to feelings of abandonment as a child.
PERRY: And to tell you the truth, I am resilient and I am strong.
ELAM: Since 2001, Perry was mostly sober, he said, with setbacks along the way.
PERRY: And no matter how far down the scale you've gone, that means you can help more people.
ELAM: Making Perry a friend to anyone fighting their own battles, or those laughing along to his role of a lifetime.
ELAM (on camera): And it's worth noting that the Los Angeles County medical examiner's office has completed the autopsy, they're waiting for the toxicology report to see if there's any foreign substances in his body. Also worth noting that law enforcement has told CNN that they do not think foul play was suspected at all in his untimely death.
Of course, the world really still trying to comprehend how this 54- year-old beloved actor could already be gone.
[19:55:02] And in New York City's Greenwich Village, you see people are flocking to this one corner, which was the outside building where it was said that Chandler Bing lived, and people are going to the restaurant down at the bottom, Little Al, and they're leaving flowers. They're leaving notes. paying their respects, candles, whatever they can, just to have some sort of way of connecting with this beloved actor who was on the show that so many people have -- are still watching to this day, Erin.
All right. Stephanie, thank you very much.
And next, authorities detailing how they tried to seize weapons owned by the Maine mass shooter, weeks before his massacre. Eighteen people died. So why didn't they get that in time?
BURNETT: Tonight, the Army determined that Lewiston, Maine, gunman Robert Card was, quote, not deployable and, quote, should not have a weapon. That is according to medical evaluation that was conducted months before Card went on a rampage killing 18 innocent people. This is according to Army spokesperson tonight.
It comes as "The New York Times" reports that one gun shop declined to let Card purchased a firearm silencer after he did disclose on a federal document that he had mental health issues.
Of course, though, with all of that, he was still ultimately able to obtain a cache of firearms, including rifles, and a pistol and murder 18 people, which raises so many questions about the actions taken by law enforcement, or frankly the lack thereof, as so many red flags were raised about the shooter.
Thanks so much for joining us.
"AC360" begins now.