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Erin Burnett Outfront

Trump Running Out Of Time As Last-Minute Delay Tactics Are Denied; GOP Flip-Flop On Abortion; CNN Investigation Contradicts IDF's Account Of Deadly Aid Delivery. Aired 7-8p ET

Aired April 09, 2024 - 19:00   ET




Breaking news as Trump stares down five days until his first criminal trial in New York. A judge in yet another criminal trial, the classified documents case, just issuing a separate ruling, this time siding with the special counsel, Jack Smith.

And the unbelievable 180 inside the Republican Party. The GOP running as fast as they can away from a major court ruling today that bans nearly every abortion in the state of Arizona. So why are they so afraid of that? Isn't that what they said they wanted?

And a CNN investigation this hour into one of the single deadliest events in Gaza, tonight, casting major doubt on Israel's official version of the events.

Let's go OUTFRONT.


BURNETT: And good evening. I'm Erin Burnett.

OUTFRONT tonight, the breaking news, five days until Trump's criminal trial begins in New York. Trump denied at every turn tonight as he tries to stall that case.

Just moments ago, another key decision coming out in a separate Trump trial as well. This in just the past hour, a ruling in Trump's Mar-a- Lago classified documents case, who gave Jack Smith a partial win, siding with his requests to withhold real names of witnesses in court documents, but there are many "buts" here, but one of them in particular is huge. Judge Cannon still has not announced a trial date for that classified documents case coming under intense criticism that she's doing exactly what Trump wants in delaying the case.

Now, we're going to have more on that breaking ruling in just a moment. Paula Reid is breaking some more details here at this moment. But again, this is a result of a last-minute hearing for Trump in New York today, a very terse rejection.

Today, Trump's legal team arguing to an appeals court judge that his hush money case should be delayed, while the former president challenges a gag order. The decision though was swift. Moments after the hearing ended, the judge and these two terms pages rejecting Trump's argument and at the very end, lots of lines you could have put for your reasoning and she only needed two.

This application for an interim stay of the proceedings pending resolution of the article 78 proceeding is denied. Justice Cynthia Kim then signing merrily with her initials here CSK. Cynthia Kern, I'm sorry.

So as of tonight, Trump's first criminal trial with 34 counts is full steam ahead to begin on Monday. Trump will become the first U.S. president to face criminal prosecution and the jury pool in Manhattan is already set for this jury selection will begin in on Monday, and everyone who scheduled to show up on Monday has known they're showing up on Monday so they know who they are.

Paula Reid is OUTFRONT.

And, Paula, the New York case about to make history tonight. Even as Judge Cannon and Florida, again, refuses to set a trial date.

PAULA REID, CNN CHIEF LEGAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Yeah. Here are Cannon did at least decide one of the key issues that is created really like a log jam in this case. And that is whether to reveal the names of witnesses and she said for now those names will remain secret. But this has caused a lot of tension between the special counsel's office and Judge Cannon after Cannon push for more transparency and said she was going to reveal more information in this case.

But tonight, she conceded that the special counsel is right. If she were to reveal the names of these witnesses, Erin, we've reported some of these witnesses are low-level employees at Trumps club that could potentially subject them to risk and harassment?

Now, Cannon, she's been under a lot of scrutiny for her approach to this case. She still has over a dozen motions outstanding. And as you noted, the biggest decision she hasn't made is where to put this case on the calendar.

We were in court with her well over a month ago. To your arguments on that issue, and she's still has not set a date.

Now, Erin, I get a lot of questions amid this tension, the scrutiny about whether the special counsel will move to try to get cannon removed from this case. Now, there's no indication in their filings that they're going to do that at this point. But if they were, that's difficult, that's a high bar. They would need a record of mistakes or missteps.

And right now, her record sorters pretty thin, but you can bet if they do attempt that in the future, this backtrack will likely be part of the record.

BURNETT: Certainly, it would. It would seem that way.

All right. Thank you very much, Paula.

And I want to go now to our legal analyst, Ryan Goodman, Sarah Krissoff, former U.S. prosecutor for the Southern District here in New York, and Robert Hirschhorn, an attorney and jury and trial consultant.

So thanks so much to all of you.

So, Ryan, it's brief. As I said, terse, you know? I mean, it didn't take much. I mean, I'm sure you could add lines if you needed to, but she only needed two of the roughly ten lines here. So, is there anything else Trump could do that could result in a delay of a case schedule to start in five days.

RYAN GOODMAN, FORMER SPECIAL COUNSEL AT DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE: I can't see anything that he could do. I think we're going to go to trial on Monday. The only kind of unforeseeable event is if he somehow -- his legal team fell apart and then he got a call for a rescheduling, but that wouldn't happen. His legal team has in place for him across multiple cases. So there's -- he's stuck with them. They're stuck with him, and he stuck with this trial.

BURNETT: Sarah, what do you think?

SARAH KRISSOFF, FORMER U.S. PROSECUTOR, SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF NEW YORK: I agree. I mean, he's done everything he can do here to try to delay this and it's just not going to happen. I think we're going forward on Monday, whether he likes it or not.

BURNETT: I mean, as I said, it will be history-making. I mean, that is the first time a former U.S. president is facing criminal prosecution.

Robert, on Monday, of course, a judge said, you can't -- you can't delay the trial. You've got this jury pool, though, already set, right? Already set. They're going to show up. They know who they are. We've gone through that. They've got a long questionnaire with 42 questions that they're going to be asking each and every potential juror.

So how does the process start from here?

ROBERT HIRSCHHORN, JURY & TRIAL CONSULTANT: Yeah, Erin, thank you so much for having me on the show. So, first, we'll see if Trump has any more continuance is up his sleeve, him and his team, we'll see, because I wont believe it until Monday comes.


HIRSCHHORN: So what's going to happen is the judge is going to call those jurors in. He's going to put them in panels are groups as I understand, its somewhere around 500 jurors that he summoned.

And what he's going to do, what -- it's fascinating, Erin, what he's doing. He's going to have, he's going to talk to the jurors and basically say to them, look, here's how long --here's how long the trial is going to last, just because you might have childcare issues, work issues that in and of itself is not going to be enough.

So I want to know two things. Do you have an opinion about the case and you have a hardship? You have an opinion that's so strong that you can't be a fair and impartial juror. And what the judge is going to do is literally have the panel members raise their hand up to see if either they have a strong opinion or they have a hardship.

He's going to literally, literally align the jurors up, have them come up and talk one at a time and tell the judge what their hardship is or what their -- why they cant be a fair and impartial juror. It's going to be a fascinating process.

BURNETT: I mean, it is fascinating to imagine 500 people sort of parading through there. So I mean, the way the system is supposed to work is that all of us citizens as jurors are supposed to answer those questions, honestly, and this is your -- your duty as a citizen. Do you think that that is reasonable to expect that people are going to say, I have a strong opinion or -- I mean, among the question since were checking where, you know, checking where you get the news, checking what podcasts you listen to, checking what books you've read.

KRISSOFF: Yeah. I mean, looking at those questions, I think they're really fairly designed to flesh out what people's views are and whether they have biases or preconceived notions. You would hope that people answer them honestly, but there may be people who very much want to serve on the jury and there may be people who very much don't want to serve on the jury, and they may adjust their answers accordingly.

BURNETT: Right. And, you know, we understand that happens. So, Ryan, at the same time and I think this is very important, so I know Robert said, I'll believe it when I see it, right? It gets to get to the finish line. But if this starts on Monday as it seems now as five-day countdown, that it will, at the same time, a three-judge panel, if I'm correct, right, will be listening to Trumps appeal on a gag order in the case, which could potentially affect the timing the trial itself.

How does that happen that these two things are going at the same time, parallel paths?

GOODMAN: So, I think the important thing to think about is that Trump's argument for why he should not be gagged and what he says about witnesses and the like is he saying I have a First Amendment right to speak my mind to the public and I'm campaigning. He's not saying I get to say this because I want to influence the jurors.

So that's why you can have them on two separate tracks, get the jury started, get the trial started could have that happen. And then yes, its actually important to have the briefing and everything occur very quickly on the gag order in order to potentially release him or not for what he wants to say publicly, but its not about what he wants to say directed at the court or at the jurors that the trial. That's why these two things can happen at the same time.

BURNETT: And, Robert, do you think expect anyone and the these 500 -- I mean, they're going to be some people I would presume because its always the case in New York are going to say that they're not aware of the case, but the majority of them one would think would be well aware of at least some of the details on this.

HIRSCHHORN: Yeah, absolutely. You'd have to be living under a rock, not to have heard about this case, the hush money case, or the Stormy Daniels case. Everybody would have heard of it, Erin, the vast majority.


But here's the issue -- can you take whatever opinions that you have about the case or former President Trump and set those aside and decide this case based on the testimony, the evidence, and the law? And if the jurors say yes, they're going to be on the jury panel, at least the panel, if not the actual juror -- jury. And if they say no, the judge is going to cut them loose because the process he set up, Erin, it's designed to ferret out the vast majority of people that either have a legitimate hardship or just can't be fair and impartial.

So he's going to wean that group of 500 down to maybe 150 and that's -- that's the group that's going to be answering the 42 questions.

BURNETT: That's going to really answer those questions. It is amazing and I think for people to realize what happens in Manhattan, if 500 people are going to show up, not for situation of course, and the vast majority of locations in the country.

So, Ryan, the other thing, Paula Reid, breaking the news on Judge Cannon. So several parts to the ruling one, okay, the names are going to be redacted of the witnesses in the actual documents. But Trump is still allowed to post things about these people or things they've said, and she still refuses a court date.

What do you take away from that today?

GOODMAN: So, I think she did the most important thing which is to protect the identity of the witnesses so that the public at large would have a harder time trying to target them.

BURNETT: Figure out who they are.

GOODMAN: Exactly. And it dovetails with what's happening in New York that the gag order is in place because as the judge, Judge Marshawn said, otherwise, what Trump has done with his statements to identifying people specifically is create an atmosphere of intimidation. So, that's at least what she has done today. Tonight, is essentially tried to protect some of the witnesses from that atmosphere of intimidation, and it could have been awful if she had decided at any other direction.

Just imagine some of these witnesses dropping out, that could have, been the easiest result.

BURNETT: Right. All right. But thank you all three very much.

And next, the major Supreme Court ruling from the state of Arizona, upholding an 1864 law, bringing a whole new meaning to precedent, which bans nearly every abortion in the state it is a law that Republicans like Kari Lake were once huge fans of.


KARI LAKE (R) ARIZONA SENATORIAL CANDIDATE: I'm incredibly thrilled that we are going to have a great law that's already on the books.


BURNETT: Well, she's not so thrilled tonight. Wait until you hear what she's saying because she doesn't want to lose her Senate race. She's not the only one running far, far away.

Plus, President Biden offering one of his sharpest rebukes yet of Netanyahu as a CNN investigation, you'll see this hour, of one of the single deadliest mass casualty events in Gaza, cast major doubt on Israel's version of events. We're talking about the World Kitchen Food workers.

And the modern day gold rush. Gold rallying to new records. Costco cannot keep gold bars in stock. Should we actually be buying gold now?

Suze Orman will be OUTFRONT.



BURNETT: Tonight, a massive flip-flop inside the GOP. Republicans now sprinting away from one of the issues that is defined that party for decades, an issue the Republican presidential candidates down to local lawmakers have campaigned on again and again, a crucial litmus test for the entire Republican Party.

The issue is abortion and Republicans are now tripping over themselves after the Arizona Supreme Court rolled abortion rights back to 1864, upholding a 160-year-old abortion ban. It outlaws nearly all abortion in the state unless necessary to save the mother's life, that means rape, incest, all that not included, just the mother's life.

The law actually sends abortion providers up to prison, to prison for up to five years. Now that is one of the toughest laws in the country. And now some Republicans who have claimed to be against abortion rights are doing all they can to distance themselves from today's decision.

So let's just start at ground zero on this one in Arizona with Kari Lake who is running for Arizona's open Senate seat. Today, she released a statement which reads, and I quote, I oppose today's ruling and I am calling on Katie Hobbs and the state legislature to come up with an immediate common sense solution that Arizonans can support.

OK, that would be fine if she just was breaking her silence on this issue. You might say, oh, who'd ever heard of a law from 1864? Well, Kari Lake had and, in fact, she had ardently supported this very law from 1864. Here she is talking about it two years ago.


LAKE: We have a great law on the books right now. I'm incredibly thrilled that we are going to have a great law that's already on the books. I believe its ARS 13-3603. So it will prohibit abortion in Arizona, except to save the life of a mother. And I think we're going to be setting the -- paving the way and setting course for other states to follow.


BURNETT: So she didn't even just say, oh, I support this law in the book. She exactly said what the law did, right? That only in the life of the mother. That's the 1864 law. She made it very clear. She knew what it was and she supported it.

Lake's flip-flopping because she knows that Arizona is not paving the way when it comes to the way the voters want. And Arizona's civil war era law is not what voters want.

I mean, look at the map. When you see this across the country, Ohio, California, Michigan, Vermont, and conservative states, Kansas, Kentucky, Montana have all gone to the polls to protect access to abortion. You had that state -- that state legislative seat one in Alabama, by Marilyn Lands, you are seeing it across this country.

Kayla Tausche is OUTFRONT, live outside the White House to begin our coverage of this tonight.

And, Kayla, the White House tonight ready to fight on this issue. They believe that this is key to Biden's reelection.


How much are the Republican flip-flopping attempts though complicating things for Biden in that?

KAYLA TAUSCHE, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Erin, there's still Republicans who are flip-flopping in the other direction, swing-state Republican candidates who have been a little bit more circumspect on the issue and now are siding with the policy position that President Trump, the former president, has laid out this week, were, he has said to let the states decide. And it's that position that in conversations tonight, senior White House officials, senior Biden campaign officials say is going to be the galvanizing issue for voters and it's going to help them establish a very clear contrast between what their candidates will do and what former President Trump is outlining.

One campaign official described it to me as a state level Dobbs, referring of course, to the case in 2022 that helped the Supreme Court overturned Roe v. Wade, sparking protests across the country and giving Democrats a strong showing in the 2022 midterms, and campaign officials cite polling in Arizona that show that 62 percent of Arizonans believed that abortion should be legal in all or most cases. But the challenge for Biden in that state is going to be how many

other issues voters will have to consider their. Take what "The Wall Street Journal" found just last month when it polled voters across swing state bates, including in Arizona. Abortion was actually the only issue where Biden bested Trump. You'll see in other cases like on the economy, immigration and fitness for office, President Trump was about 20 points higher than President Biden.

Even so, they're going full court press on this issue alone. Vice President Harris will be in Tucson later this week and they're going to be many more surrogates visiting Arizona and other swing states to talk about this.

BURNETT: All right. Kayla, thank you very much.

And let's bring in CNN political commentator, and the host of "PBS Firing Line", Margaret Hoover.

Okay. So it's amazing to look at how Arizonans view the issue of abortion as Kayla lays out those polls. No surprise then that Kari Lake's running away from it. Maybe the surprise is how much she knew about it, that she had a down accurately and she so stridently supported it before.

MARGARET HOOVER, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, you know, it bears repeating as you've said, this is a civil war era law that was on the books in Arizona, 1864. Arizona wasn't even a state, Erin, when this law was on the books.

So, the Supreme Court in Arizona has just ignored a 2022 ban on abortion that was 15 weeks in favor of a territorial law. There wasn't even on the books and it was argued and this is the key and this is why Kari Lake took this position.

She was running for governor in 2020 and she was defending an argument from a far-right extremist group called the Alliance Defending Freedom. This is a deeply conservative, litigious group. They argue that they're doing the thing they accuse others of.

This is lawfare using socially conservative ideology to fuel their arguments. And this group, the Alliance Defending Freedom, is responsible for the most onerous anti-LGBT laws and anti-trans laws that are being passed in state legislatures across the country. They are responsible for the argument the state Supreme Court in Arizona accepted.

BURNETT: So, she is -- and then she had felt like she had to pander to them or to be on their side.


HOOVER: Because she's galvanizing that narrow niche of support in order to try to get her over the finish line for her gubernatorial race. Now, she's running away from it because guess what actually, Arizona Republicans in a statewide race, Arizona Republicans -- remember, think Barry Goldwater, OK. Barry Goldwater, who may have been of this pillar in the conservative movement, but Arizona conservatives are libertarians on social issues and they always have been -- it was Barry Goldwater's family who actually helped establish the first Planned Parenthood in Arizona.


HOOVER: This is not a state that is going to want the government of impede your personal liberty.

BURNETT: It is amazing to see whether she'll be able to get away with such a direct flip-flop though. I mean, they don't -- they don't always come as clear as this one.

HOOVER: I have spoken to stay electeds in the last hour. Republican state electeds, and they believed that this will absolutely flipped the legislature. This will absolutely impact the presidential election. This has Republicans now on their back feet. There is no way Donald Trump is going to carry the state just in this issue.

BURNETT: Well, Trump has said -- Trump has said that he put it to the states.


BURNETT: Well, put it to the states. That's what you get an Arizona.

HOOVER: Well, how's it going? It's not going to go so well for him in Arizona and truly, this is actually -- they said 65 percent of Arizonans are in favor of this.

I mean, this is the most draconian law. Now, we have in all the states and all the books. No exceptions for rape, no exceptions for incest, only in the case of the death of the mother. I mean, this is truly -- I mean, this is a Civil War era, 19th century law now on the books in 2024.

BURNETT: Pretty, pretty incredible. All right, Margaret, thank you very much.

And OUTFRONT next, CNN investigates one of the biggest mass casualties events of the Gaza war. And what CNN uncovered is raising questions about officials -- Israel's official shall timeline of events.


Plus, Republican Marjorie Taylor Greene dialing up the pressure to oust Speaker Mike Johnson. But if Trump told her to back down, would she? Well, you're going to hear because Manu Raju just asked her in a one-on-one interview.


BURNETT: Breaking news, President Biden with some of his harshest criticism yet of Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu's handling of the war in Gaza, including the Israeli strike on the world central kitchen aid convoy in which seven workers were killed, who were delivered food to Gaza.


JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I think what he's doing is a mistake. I don't agree with his -- I think it's outrageous that those formed through three vehicles were hit Biden drones and taken out this comes as CNN investigates another fatal incident involving the Israeli defense forces. This one, the single deadliest mass casualty into one of the single deadliest mass casualty events in Gaza.

And CNN's report tonight cast serious doubt on the official Israeli version of events that happened on that day.


I want to note earlier I said the investigation was about the World Central Kitchen incident. I want to make it clear that this report is about a separate incident and occurred on February 29. More than 100 people were killed.

A warning that some of the images that you are about to see in this investigation are graphic.

Katie Polglase is OUTFRONT.


KATIE POLGLASE, CNN INVESTIGATIVE PRODUCER (voice-over): It's early morning on February 29th on Al-Rashid road in northern Gaza. Thousands of starving people have gathered here to receive food. But as the aid trucks arrive, this happens.


POLGLASE: The night would become known as the flour massacre.

By morning, over 100 would be dead, in one of the single biggest mass casualty events of this conflict.

CNN uninvestigated this incident, obtaining never seen before videos of that night, collecting evidence from 22 eyewitnesses and tracing the aid itself all the way to a Muslim child party in the UK.

It was the IDF that was then responsible for safely delivering these vital supplies. But we found they open fire on unarmed starving Palestinians at close range as the aid arrived.

Their explanation for the tragedy using this drone video was the stampede that causes soldiers to fired warning shots in the air. They later admitted to firing some shots directly at so-called suspects who approached them.

But the IDF footage is incomplete. It cuts between crowds surrounding the trucks and bodies lying on the ground, even its reveals they were firing in a densely packed area, likely to cause severe bloodshed. CNN requested the full footage from the IDF, but it was denied.

Jihad Abu Watfa was amongst the starving Palestinians and started filming as the trucks crossed into northern Gaza.

JIHAD ABU WATFA, EYEWITNESS TO DEADLY AID TRUCK INCIDENT IN GAZA: We decided to face the danger, to risk our lives to obtain any piece of bread for our families.

POLGLASE: Videos from Jihad and another key eyewitness Bilal (ph) indicate that gunfire started earlier than the IDF claimed. The IDF published this timeline saying the trucks arrived at the checkpoint at 4:00 a.m. leaving crossed at 4:29. And only after that did the IDF fire shots that the crowd.

But in Bilal's video filmed seven minutes earlier, at 4:22 a.m., gunshots ring out. He warns there was a tank.

The IDF claimed the convoy was still stationary at the checkpoint at this time.

Next, Jihad begins filming. It's now for 4:28 a.m. and there's a barrage of gunfire from and the shots are close.

Analysis by weapons experts of the burst indicate it as heavy automatic gunfire at 600 rounds per minute. Jihad keeps filming.

A tank gets beside me. We're now under siege, he says. Moments later, you see a truck driving along the road. We spotted traces from the gunfire here. One can be seen ricocheting up here according to weapons experts.

WATFA: The feeling was totally indescribable, fear, confusion. You fear, God forbid, going back to your family as a martyr.

POLGLASE: As day broke, the number of dead and injured that emerged were staggering. Interviews with survivors at hospitals afterwards found some people had been shot in the upper body.

REPORTER (translated): Where were you injured?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (translated): In my chest, and it went out through my back.

POLGLASE: Amidst the devastation, CNN found a clue as to who had delivered this aid, this box with the writing on a welfare trust.

MOHAMMAD AMHED, UMMAH WELFARE TRUST: This was the first time that the aid had reached northern Gaza and we were very, very excited and happy that finally we have gone through.

POLGLASE: They received the terrible news as to what had happened via WhatsApp.

AHMED: I woke up to some photos with cardboard boxes of our logo Ummah Welfare Trust with bloodstains on them. And it came as a shock. This is the first time in 20 years where I've actually seen blood being mixed with aid.

POLGASE: In all, at least 118 died that day, with the U.N. struggling to access northern Gaza, the IDF are responsible for ensuring aid arrives safely. Despite this, the U.N. has documented two dozen attacks on Palestinians awaiting aid in the last three months alone.

For those like Jihad, living on the verge of famine, it has led to a desperate fight for survival.

WATFA (translated): The living take precedence over the dead. I must get food for myself and my children.

POLGLASE: And now about fight becomes more challenging than ever.


POLGLASE (on camera): Well, Erin, the IDF have not yet responded to CNN's questions on these findings. We've also asked for that full unedited drone footage, but those requests have being denied. And really this investigation is calling into question the IDF's ability to safely deliver, distribute aid when its clearly most desperately needed -- Erin.

BURNETT: All right. Katie, thank you very much. Again for another outstanding report in that, Katie and her investigative team.

I want to go down to the Democratic Senator Chris Coons of Delaware, member of the Foreign Relations Committee.

Senator, I appreciate your time. After the World Central Kitchen airstrike, you had said conditions may need to be put on U.S. aid to Israel. Now, you've been able to see the CNN investigation. I know you just saw it here for the first time yourself. But it contradicts the IDF's official account of how at least 118 people were killed after they lined up for food aid in Gaza, shows that the gunfire started at least seven minutes earlier than the IDF actually said. Heavy automatic gunfire and calling into question their full account.

What's your reaction, Senator?

SEN. CHRIS COONS (D-DE): Erin, what's clear both from the reporting I just saw on CNN and from dozens of previous incidents, is that far too many civilians have died in the six months of this conflict against Hamas, and far too many aid workers have died, nearly 200. The World Central Kitchen incident riveted the attention of many here in Congress because Jose Andres is known to many of us.

But frankly, many other incidents like the one you were just documenting in which more than 100 died also have shown that the chaos in Gaza, the civilian deaths in Gaza, and the difficulty delivering humanitarian aid has gotten to a point where there needs to be changes made. In the last few days, more aid trucks have gotten into Gaza than at any point in six months. I think more than 400 today.

And the Netanyahu government has announced an intention to open the Erez gate in the north, which if that's done could make a significant impact on the hunger bordering on famine in the north of Gaza, as well as the Ashdod port and a route through Kerem Shalom, for trucks from Jordan.

This is long overdue and I think it's time for us to see some significant changes like this.

BURNETT: Senator, to the extent that this report calls into question, though the official version of very specific timeline that had been put out by the IDF. It just raises a crucial question for you and your colleagues, but you, in dealing with Israeli officials -- do you trust what the Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu says right now?

COONS: Well, look, it's been an important but challenging relationship. The United States and Israel are close and longstanding allies. We are committed to defending Israel against any attack by Iran and it's important to remember how this entire six month long conflict began, with the horrifying terrorist attack by Hamas.

I've met with Prime Minister Netanyahu many times and I raised with him in person six weeks ago when I last met with him, the urgency of addressing deconfliction, the number of folks who were being killed in an attempt to deliver aid. That deconfliction clearly did not get fixed. So, clearly, there is more work to be done.

BURNETT: And no, and your fellow Democratic Senator Elizabeth Warren, she was asked if she thought Israel was committing genocide in Gaza. She answered and I quote her, if you want to do it as an application of law, I believe they'll find that it is genocide and they had ample evidence to do so, that they she's referring to is International Court. She's talking about a court of law.

But, you know, when you talk about -- you've had conversations with Netanyahu and then clearly things still need to be addressed. It was I believe how you still put it, do you agree with her? Is this genocide?

COONS: I don't think that's a legal conclusion that I can or should reach tonight but I think President Biden and many of us in the Senate have been pressing for changes in policy and practice. We've been clear that a large-scale attack on Rafah, even though there are still Hamas battalions, there is not justified without providing for civilians to move out of the way and that there has to be a change in terms of the humanitarian relief that's getting into Israel.

I'm wearing a small note that says 186 on it as a reminder that there are still hostages being held by Hamas underneath Gaza. I met with a hostage family earlier today with Hersh Goldberg-Polin's mother, Rachel, and my hope is that we are seeing progress in the negotiations in Cairo that Hamas will accept the latest offer from Israel and we will see both a hostage release and a ceasefire.

BURNETT: Senator Coons, thank you very much. I appreciate it.

COONS: Thank you, Erin.

BURNETT: All right. Next, Marjorie Taylor Greene ramping up per threat to oust the speaker, Mike Johnson, tonight. Is Trump-supporting her crusade?


You're going to hear the details of what she's telling our Manu Raju. He just spoke to her. He's going to share what she said with you.

And Costco cannot keep gold bars? Yes, they have real bars made of gold. What else? They've got everything Costco. They can't keep them in stock. So should you be buying them?

It's a big question here. Suze Orman is OUTFRONT next.


BURNETT: All right. Breaking news, Republican Congresswoman Marjorie Taylor Greene just telling our Manu Raju that Speaker Mike Johnson has, quote, completely betrayed his party. Her comments coming just hours after she said a scathing five-page letter to House pushing for his ouster, writing in part, quote, he is throwing our own razor-thin majority into chaos by not serving his own GOP conference that elected him.

Well, Manu is OUTFRONT on Capitol Hill.

And, Manu, you just had a chance to speak to Congresswoman Greene, who could be the one to oust the speaker here. It only takes one. She's been saying she's going to do it. And you had a chance to talk to her about that, and whether Trump is supporting her efforts. What did she tell you?

MANU RAJU, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, she made clear that she is not backing off. She would not detail exactly what would trigger this vote. The call that you could call it any moment really, to seek Mike Johnson's ouster, but she did warn him not to move forward with Ukraine aid the package just as mike Johnson is at the moment trying to cobble together a Ukraine aid package.


She told me that she did not speak with Johnson on Friday, even as they would plan to speak because she declined to do so, saying that you needed to speak to her constituents first and she plans to speak with them this week if he's willing to do so.

But, Erin, she did speak to Donald Trump earlier today and I asked her whether that Trump is supporting her effort.


REP. MARJORIE TAYLOR GREENE (R-GA): Well, I absolutely love President Trump. I have a great relationship with him. I talked to him earlier today. I won't speak for President Trump and I don't think this is, this is really a problem.

RAJU: You don't think he'll -- do you think he'll weigh one way or the other? Is he dissuading you? GREENE: I will never speak for President Trump about he will or won't

do. He is the leader of our party and I always leave that up to him respectfully. But I think President Trump is far more focused on winning his campaign to become president of the United States in 2025. I definitely don't think he wants a Republican speaker of the House that will fund the Department of Justice that's trying to put him in jail for the rest of his life.

RAJU: If he calls you and said, Marjorie, back off, would you listen to him?

GREENE: He hasn't called me and said that yet. So again, I don't speak for President Trump. That's totally up to him to weigh in if he wanted to. I think he's focused on his election and he should be.


RAJU: But, Erin, there are still a lot of questions about how exactly this would play out, not just the timing, but where the votes will be. I spent a lot of time today talking to Republicans, many of them either noncommittal or just flat out oppose this effort and will Democrats come to Speaker Johnson's defense if he moves forward on Ukraine aid, that is something that Democratic leader Hakeem Jeffries won't weigh in on tonight -- Erin.

BURNETT: And obviously, at the heart of all of this. Manu, thank you very much.

And at the heart of it, the election and Americans' deep fears about the economy. And that brings us to what really is a new gold rush in America. People -- regular Americans, not just investors, big investors are big banks are rushing to buy actual gold, physical gold amid inflation concerns.

Look at Costco. Costco is only started selling gold bars last year for proof. Okay? So this is the situation. They start selling a year ago, and Wells Fargo is now estimated that Costco is now selling up to $200 million a month in gold bars.

Now I just want to -- it sounds enormous. It is by comparison, Costco sold $100 million in gold bars for the entire quarter that ended last November. So, an entire quarter, $100 million. And now running at $200 a month.

Bank of America now projecting that the price of an ounce of gold, which hit seven straight record highs lately, will hit $3,000 by the end of the year.

OUTFRONT now, Suze Orman, one of the world's best-known personal finance advisors and the founder of Secure Save and the host of the "Women and Money" podcast.

So, Suze, I lay all this out because it comes from a place of a lot of very real fears of inflation and prices going up and feeling like your money doesn't go as far and people are rushing into gold. Are you shocked when you hear things like this? A hundred million dollars, first of all, they weren't even selling me

a year ago. Then they sell them, one-quarter hundred million dollars. Now they're running at $200 million a month in gold bars. Is that something anybody should be buying?

SUZE ORMAN, FOUNDER OF SECURE SAVE: Well, here's the thing, Erin, is that people always have this herd mentality and the sphere of missing out to happen with bitcoin. Bitcoin is going up. Its going up, its going up. All I have to buy it.

Oh, gold. Never even thought about gold before. Now here you're in Costco and people are in line and they're running out of it and they're only let people buying five apiece and all of a sudden, this frenzy starts and everybody wants to be a part of it, especially when they see the price going up and the price has gone up 13 percent so far this year.

What they are not thinking about, however is that its one thing to buy gold and get a physical bar. It's another thing to have to sell it and that is not what they are thinking about. You have to have it surveyed -- all these things. Where do you go? Where do you keep it? Is it ensured, is it not?

And so there's a lot of things I think people really need to think about when you're buying physical gold.

Listen, if you want to be invested in gold, you can do it through an ETF. You can do it many ways. But to buy the actual commodity, I'm not sure is something that people should be doing.

BURNETT: And that, which is a crucial point, the point you make of if you do you believe that, that gold is a good thing to buy, right? As a sort of a hedge, as against inflation, that there are other ways to do it, as you mentioned, exchange traded funds and other ways, do you, Suze, right now, have fears about where inflation is going though? Those fears that clearly is where a lot of Americans are getting this anxiety from?

ORMAN: I do have fear about it, but for different reasons than before. Now, I'm afraid because commodities are going up, not just gold.


Look at the price of oil, oil's at $86, $89 right in there, depending if it's WTI or Brent. And is oil goes up, what else happens? The price of gasoline starts to go up.

So people start to feel it every single day as they're filling up their tanks, then everybody starts to talk about it again and also the news is saying, what's going to happen tomorrow with the CPI? Is inflation going to go up? Is it not?

And so then you see people getting -- coming out of stocks, possibly going into bonds and vice-versa. I think everybody needs to just calm down and I think they need to see really where is it at, and not be investing according to inflation.

Erin, they need to be investing according to what's going on in there individual lives. Are they older and do they need fixed income? So should they be buying a 20 or 30-year treasury bond and locking it up? Or are they younger and should they be in the stock market?

So I think everybody is just freaking out right now --


ORMAN: -- but I don't think we need to be freaking out as much as they are.

BURNETT: And everyone is freaking out. I mean, that's the reality. I think its more macro than even the economy, right? It's sort of a soul-searching moment of great anxiety when you talk about politics and democracy and what's at stake. And then the economy.

The context here, you've got a Zillow analysis. I know you were looking at this, Suze, 550 cities in the United States where the typical value of a home is 1 million or more at the same time as a new CNBC survey that you led, found that 65 percent of Americans are living paycheck to paycheck and say that they only have what, $400 of emergency money, credit card debt is surging.


ORMAN: -- $400, Erin, of emergency money.

So you have two sectors really going on, which are the rich people are getting richer and richer. They have the money to be investing in stock, in A.I., taking advantage of everything. Want to know what's really sad is 25 percent of the real estate that people could have bought themselves were bought by investors. People who wanted to make money, the big people, which left littler inventories for those people who just wanted to buy a home.

So it's getting really difficult, not just because of interest rates and mortgages, but because of insurance and everything. But there's always help out there and there's always a way to find your way to that pot of gold.

BURNETT: All right. Well, you know what, Suze? I like talking to you because when I feel anxiety about all of these things and I think everybody watching does, like I said, on an existential deep level, it is good to be confronted with you're always optimism. So thank you so much. Good to talk to you.

And next, the mother and father of the teenage gunman who shot and killed four students in Michigan, have now been sentenced. As of tonight, we have an update for you the full details.

And the 33-year-old woman from Los Angeles who is being held in a Russian prison tonight. Her boyfriend has just received new information from her and he's going to tell us what it is.



BURNETT: Tonight, the maximum sentence for the parents of school shooter, Ethan Crumbley. The judges ruled that James and Jennifer Crumbley will spend 10 to 15 years in prison. The parents were convicted of involuntary manslaughter after their son shot and killed four of his classmates. The judges ruling coming after heartbreaking impact statements from the families of the victims.

Whitney Wild is OUTFRONT.


JUDGE CHERYL MATTHEWS, OAKLAND COUNTY, MICHIGAN CIRCUIT COURT: It is the sense of this court, Mrs. Crumbley, that you serve 10 to 15 years. James Crumbley, it is a sense of this court that you serve 10 to 15 years, with the Michigan Department of Corrections.

WHITNEY WILD, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Ten to 15 years, that's how long the parents of the teenager who shot and killed four students in 2021 at an Oxford, Michigan, high school using a gun they gifted him were sentenced to spend behind bars. Both convicted of involuntary manslaughter in separate trials. It's the first time a parent of a mass shooter has been held criminally responsible.

BUCK MYRE, FATHER OF SHOOTING VICTIM TATE MYRE: This tragedy has taken carotid the toll on our family.

WILD: Emotions ran high as parents and family members of Tate Myre, Hana St. Juliana, Madisyn Baldwin, and Justin Shilling spoke directly to the Crumbleys about their loved ones who were killed in the November 2021 shooting.

NICOLE BEAUSOLEIL, MOTHER OF SHOOTING VICTIM MADISYN BALDWIN: When you texted, Ethan, don't do it, I was texting Madisyn, I love you. Please call mom.

JILL SOAVE, MOTHER OF SHOOTING VICTIM JUSTIN SHILLING: You have failed your son and you have failed us all. This failure had deadly consequences that can never be undone, that can never be made right.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Your mistakes created our everlasting nightmare. Our 10-year-old little brother had to learn how to write a eulogy for his sister before he even learn how to write essays.

WILD: The Crumbleys son pleaded guilty to 24 charges, including first-degree murder. He was sentenced to life without parole. And while Jennifer Crumbley apologized in court, she continued to place blame on the school.

JENNIFER CRUMBLEY, MOTHER OF OXFORD HIGH SCHOOL SHOOTER: Now, over you left in the dark about previous concerning behavior, but in the counselor's office that morning, none of those previous issues were brought to our attention. WILD: And James Crumbley, who did not take the stand during his trial, apologizing for the first time.

JAMES CRUMBLEY, FATHER OF OXFORD HIGH SCHOOL SHOOTER: I am sorry for your loss as a result of what my son did. I cannot express how much I wish that I had known what was going on with him or what was going to happen.

WILD: But the judge said these convictions were not about poor parenting.

MATTHEWS: These convictions confirm repeated acts or lack of acts that could have halted an oncoming runaway train. Opportunity knocked over and over again, louder and louder, and was ignored. No one's -- no one answered and these two people should have made it didn't.


WILD (on camera): The prosecutor in this case said it's disappointing that the Crumbleys didn't express remorse throughout the trial. As for where these family will serve their sentences, James and Ethan Crumbley will not serve their sentences in the same facility. Instead, Erin, each member of this family will serve out their time in a separate facility -- Erin.

BURNETT: Whitney, thank you very much, from Chicago tonight.

And before we go, an OUTFRONT update. We've been closely following the story of Ksenia Karelina, a 33-year-old dual U.S.-Russian citizen from Los Angeles. She's being held tonight in Russian prison. She was arrested while visiting her parents and charged with treason for allegedly donating $51 to a Ukrainian charity. A judge now ordering her to remain bar -- behind bars for an additional three months, at least.

But Karelina has been able to exchange letters with her boyfriend here in the since her arrest and tonight, he is giving us the very latest on her life in prison. And what she is enduring.


CHRIS VAN HEERDEN, BOYFRIEND OF U.S.-RUSSIAN CITIZEN ARRESTED IN RUSSIA: They get to shower once a week, that breaks me. She has no hot water. The hardest thing for us to fall asleep because they refused to put the lights off.

I can tell you this, from the letters and stuff, she's scared.


BURNETT: She is scared and alone. But one thing that gives Chris hope he says is Ksenia doesn't actually have to wear a prison uniform.

And thanks so much for joining us. We appreciate your being with us.

It's time now for "AC360".