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Erin Burnett Outfront
Trump Legal Team Now Weighing A Push To Move Sentencing Date; Trump Campaign Says It Raised $34.8 Million Since Guilty Verdict; Biden: "Dangerous" Trump Is Calling Verdict He Dislikes "Rigged". Aired 7-8p ET
Aired May 31, 2024 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[19:00:45]
ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST: OUTFRONT next:
Trump's next move. The former president vowing to appeal his conviction while his lawyers weigh whether to move his sentencing date. Michael Cohen is my guest.
Plus, Kristi Noem is OUTFRONT on the verdict. Would she be on the GOP ticket with a convicted felon?
And the people who have been jailed for the same crime as Trump, who are they? And what do their stories tell us about his fate?
Let's go OUTFRONT.
Good evening. I'm Erin Burnett.
And OUTFRONT tonight, Trump plotting his next move. The former president and now a convicted felon at Bedminster, New Jersey, his home there after spending the day with his family, Ivanka, Jared, Melania, and Barron, all four noticeably absent during Trump's historic trial, and in that press conference speech today, Melania noticeably not present.
The private show of support comes as Trump's legal team has just weeks to file a sentencing memo. And the memo is obviously crucial because it's when lawyers would make the case for a lighter sentence. In this case, of course, a jury found Trump guilty on 34 criminal counts of falsifying business records.
And there's uncertainty about whether the sentencing well actually happen on July 11th, as it was initially scheduled by Judge Merchan. Trump's attorneys are weighing whether to push that sentencing back or whether to try to push it back, right, they've got to get a request since he if that would pass.
So this is what they're debating behind closed doors. Of course, in public, Trump is trying to appear defiant. Nearly nine years to the day that he came down the escalator and launched his presidential campaign with Melania Trump.
Today, he returned to the lobby of Trump Tower, down that escalator. She was upstairs. She did not come with him and he came down and raged, slamming the case that has now made him a convicted felon.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT & 2024 PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: It was a rigged trial. We wanted a venue change, where we can have a fair trial. We didn't get it. We wanted a judge change. We wanted a judge that wasn't conflicted and obviously he didn't do that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: This afternoon, for the first time, right, it's taken now, 24 hours since the verdict, President Biden is speaking out. Here's what he's saying.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: It's reckless. It's dangerous. It's irresponsible for anyone to say this was rigged just because they don't like the verdict.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Trump, of course, does not like the verdict, but it is actually paying off for him right now. Trump campaign putting out a new video tonight featuring his allies all have been flooding the airwaves today to cry foul. According to the campaign, they've now raised about $35 million since the verdict was handed down. I want to note that's just small donors and I also want ill make a point that that number came out this morning. So it is likely gone up since then.
Paula Reid is OUTFRONT live in New York to begin our coverage, as you have been every single day of this trial, Paula. And tonight, I know you're talking to your sources in the Trump world and Trump legal team.
What are you learning about what they're doing right now and through this weekend?
PAULA REID, CNN CHIEF LEGAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: So, right now, today, over the next few days, Trump will continue to confer with his legal and political advisors about what to do in the wake of this verdict. And one of the first big questions they need to address is what to do about the date of this sentencing. July 11 is just a few days before the Republican National Convention, around the time he was expected to announce his running mate.
But in speaking of sources, I'm told that there are only some folks in Trump world who believe no, keeping on July 11th, that's a great way to go into the convention as they continue to try to paint him as a martyr, and the victim of an unfair judicial system.
But it's interesting though, Erin, because this is a shift in how they've approached this case. There is always a tension with the legal and the political when it comes to Trump. But if you think about this case, yes, the 2024 race came up when they were trying to get the case moves. It comes up in the gag order litigation, political speech, but it never came up in the courtroom. You never heard his lawyers arguing about this during the seven-week trial.
But now the 2024 race won't be just a factor. It will be the factor. And that makes sense now that the legal strategy becomes a political one, because retaking the White House is the only way Trump can avoid two far more serious criminal prosecutions at the federal level.
BURNETT: All right. Thank you very much, Paula Reid, in New York.
And I want to go now to Michael Cohen. He is, of course, Trump's former attorney. And the crucial witness in this case, the host of two podcasts now, "Mea Culpa" and "Political Beatdown", and the author of two books that you see on your screen, "Revenge" and "Disloyal: A Memoir, A True Story of Former President Trump's Personal Attorney to President Donald J. Trump".
[19:05:15]
All right. Michael, so here we are. Last time I saw, you were on the stand.
MICHAEL COHEN, FOPRMER TRUMP ATTORNEY: Yes, I was, 21 hours.
BURNETT: Twenty-one.
And so, now, now, you are 24 hours in. Do you feel it?
COHEN: I actually don't. You know, I have very mixed emotions. I've kind of had this conversation with my wife and my children because they asked me the identical question, I believe that Donald should be held accountable.
I believe that the verdict was right, that the jurors did exactly what they were supposed to do despite Donald's admonition for the judge was conflicted. The jurors are no good. The venue was no good, only because he wants to control all aspects of the case, which, of course, he does not have the right to do.
Nevertheless, I believe the jurors came back with the right decision. Problem though, is I have family all over the world and I've been speaking to a lot of them who say to me, can't believe that this is the United States of America, that the former president of the United States is now a felon that, he's convicted on 34 out of 34 charges. What's happening over there that this is more like something you would have seen with Noriega, not with America?
BURNETT: Do you think, Michael, that because today when he spoke, and he came in Trump Tower, a place that you used to go every single day.
COHEN: Yeah.
BURNETT: Came down that escalator that you went up every single day and he said that he should have testified in his 35 five-minute speech.
Do you think he should testify? COHEN: Absolutely not. Donald and the truth are two very divergent issues. Donald doesn't know how to tell the truth. His lies are compounded only by lies. You know the old expression, a lie begets a lie. But what happens when you've told 35,000 plus of them? He can't keep the story straight.
So it was finally a smart move by whoever told him not to, because some of the things that they're telling him, his legal strategists, whether it's Todd Blanche, or Boris Epshteyn? I have no idea who the legal strategist is, but I've now coined my own sort of phrase to go against the Todd Blanche, Donald Trump GLOAT.
BURNETT: Yeah, they called you the greatest liar of all time.
COHEN: And I call him a SLOAT, the stupidest lawyer of all time, because anybody that would allow Donald Trump to create their own strategy for a defense in a case like this, after he's gotten beaten so badly again and again and again is clearly stupid.
BURNETT: All right on the issue of telling the truth and there's a lot I want to talk about here because it's important, but on the -- after the verdict, Trump's attorney, Blanche, he asked the judge to set aside the verdict, nope, and acquit Trump. And the reason that Blanche said this is, quote, there's no basis this and there's no way this jury could have reached a verdict without accepting the testimony of Mr. Cohen. And we believe unequivocally that that testimony, even though it would stand in this courtroom, that he lied, there was perjury committed.
Did you lie under oath?
COHEN: No. No. In fact, one of the things that I thought Alvin Bragg, Susan Hoffinger, and Josh Steinglass did that was brilliant is they laid out their entire case? Even before I got to the stand, there were 19 witnesses that preceded me on the stand, and each one of them told the story.
And that story corroborates what I have been saying for six years, not one year, not two years, but since years telling the same story.
But here's the beautiful thing -- they brought me in at the very end, not to be as the media wants to call me the key witness. I'll accept it, but that's not what I call myself.
I am the narrator of the story.
BURNETT: Yes, you said.
COHEN: And what I did is I took everybody's statements. I took documentary evidence, emails, text messages, et cetera, recordings. And what did we do? We took the statements by other witnesses. We put it all together, which corroborated everything that I'm saying.
So just because Donald Trump, what Todd Blanche makes a statement that Michael Cohen committed perjury, it doesn't make a difference what they say. It's not supported by any of the jurors, any of the 12 jurors. It wasn't supported by the judge. It's not supported by anything other than the defendant himself and his lawyer.
BURNETT: Well, of course, they'll -- they'll have to fight that on appeal.
I mean, okay, this all goes back to -- and I want to start here on one thing, you went to prison because you lied to Congress and you've said you did that to protect Donald Trump. You're working for Donald Trump. You did that to protect him.
And you told me the prison takes your soul.
[19:10:03]
So, now, do you think about it in the context of Donald Trump? Do you want that to happen to him, too?
COHEN: I would like for him to experience what I felt. Id like for him to experience with 51 days of solitary confinement feels like considering he and Bill Barr were the ones that actually caused the 51 days of solitary confinement. So, yeah, I would.
However, out of respect for the office of the presidency and believing that Judge Merchan is really very Solomonian as a judge, I'm not certain that Donald will ever see the inside of a prison.
I believe it will probably be an incredibly strict confinement scenario where it's the same as being there. You're not going to have access to the internet. People don't just come in and come out.
Yeah, he'll -- the only differences he'll have his own food, but he's not going to have the access. He's not going to run.
BURNETT: Are you okay with that?
COHEN: Yes. And I'm okay with it only because of my respect for the process, my respect for the office of the presidency. My concern goes far greater than enjoying seeing Donald go into a prison and wearing an orange jumpsuit. Donald will talk about things that he shouldn't talk about. He will give up national security secrets, let's not forget for four years --
BURNETT: If he's in prison?
COHEN: Yes, for four years, he was -- he was debriefed and he's going to be debriefed now to as a felon, which blows my mind if he becomes the Republican nominee. Will he give away that information and put yours mind and our families and everybody's families in harm's way? Absolutely.
BURNETT: So.
Okay. I understand how you're saying that you want them to feel that feeling of loss of soul. If he does not win the election, he could be going prison in this case, as well as in federal cases, right. January 6, Mar-a-Lago. Here's, I think -- I don't know if you've had a chance to think about this yourself in your own heart. Do you think President Biden should pardon him?
COHEN: No, absolutely not.
BURNETT: Why not?
COHEN: Because I think it would be wrong. I think that the country deserves to know that no one is above the law and that includes a rogue former president who has done everything -- everything to violate the Constitution, the very document that is the foundation of our democracy.
BURNETT: So he spoke about you today, with that speech he gave.
COHEN: What else is new?
BURNETT: Let me just play exactly what he said about you.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I'm not allowed to use his name because of the gag order. But, you know, he's a sleazebag. Everybody knows that. Took me a while to find out.
But he was effective. He did work, but he wasn't a fixer. He was a lawyer.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: So he's still talking about you actually, you're sleazebag but you were effective.
COHEN: Yeah. All right. I'm an effective sleazebag. Again, there's nothing that Donald Trump can say that has any effect upon me at all.
The days of me being in the cult -- of that dumpster cult of Donald Trump is over. Right now, he wants to call me a convict. He once called me a felon. Guess what, pal? So are you. So are you.
BURNETT: When you -- you and I had a conversation a couple of months ago and we are talking about the lying to Congress. And you said that at that time, if you had not been caught, if that hadn't caught up to you at that time, you were still working for him, you were lying on his behalf, that you weren't -- you were wondering whether you would still be working for Trump. Do you think you'd still be working for Trump now?
COHEN: You know, I know this is going to sound sort of -- I don't know -- Hollywood--ish, but it's an issue that keeps me up a lot at night. It plays in my head all the time. Where would I be? When I was in Otisville, there were a couple of inmates, friends of mine that would say why don't just keep your mouth shut, stop attacking the president because he was the president at the time, stop meeting with the Manhattan D.A., who came up three times while I was there. BURNETT: Yeah.
COHEN: He'll pardon you. You'll end up working for Fox News, or Newsmax or OAN, or you'll run the RNC or something like that and your life will go back into something great and he'll be the president again. It'll -- it'll -- I couldn't do it.
I made a promise to my wife, my daughter, my son, and the country that my loyalty for him -- for him was over. I had said that going back to July 1st of 2018, and it has been six years. Next month, it'll be six years since I made that promise I did on ABC with George Stephanopoulos.
BURNETT: Yeah.
COHEN: And I'm going to -- and I said, I'm just going to live up to it.
[19:15:02]
I'm going to do that so I can show my children that doing the right thing, it's never bad to do the right thing.
BURNETT: Well, Michael, Ii really appreciate your time. Thank you so much for coming on tonight. I know it's been -- it's been a six-year saga, a marathon in the past 24 hours have been a sprint.
COHEN: That it has. Good to see.
BURNETT: All right. And OUTFRONT next, new details about what Trump did just hours after his conviction.
Plus, what the next steps are for Trump before sentencing day. And Republican Governor Kristi Noem attacking the jury in Trump's hush money case, but jury Trump's lawyer says the former president help pick. So is Trump to blame? Governor Noem is OUTFRONT.
And how many people who've been convicted of the same crime as Trump have actually gone to jail. We've looked through it and you'll get to see it, too. That's coming up.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:20:14]
BURNETT: Breaking news, new fundraising numbers just in from the Trump campaign now saying they have raised $53 million in the 24 hours since he was found guilty of 34 felony counts. I mean, that is an incredible thing to remember the top of the show, I said, well, it's $34.8 million as of this morning and it surely had gone up, $18 million more dollars over a few hours today.
This as CNN is learning that Trump dined with megadonor just hours after being convicted.
Kristen Holmes is OUTFRONT tonight at Trump Tower. And, Kristen, you broke the story and all please details. What more do you know about who attended this dinner?
KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, the biggest name that was there and was Steve Schwarzman. And this has been a really big coup for the Trump campaign. Schwarzman, the CEO and chairman of Blackstone, somebody who had supported Trump while he was in the White House and before that. But this year during the GOP primary said it was time for a new generation of leadership in the Republican Party, a real sting to Donald Trump.
But just last week, he said he would be supporting the Trump campaign. And now we have learned that he was dining with him just hours after the conviction and other notable name there was real estate mogul Jose Pepe Fanjul, among others, and I am told that this number this $53 million, which again, we have not verified, and we will not be able to verify until we see the FEC reports. But generally speaking, they are honest about this because they don't want the news around the fact that they lied around those numbers. But that just has to be the caveat.
But the $53 million, that is just money from online. So all of these dinners he's been having this week with these big time donors who are cutting checks, that doesn't include that kind of money. I am told there are still millions of dollars there. That is the soft money, and keep in mind, we also know Miriam Adelson said she's going to donate millions to one of Donald Trump's super PAC that was established back in 2020.
So you're seeing real Republican donors coming to roost. We'll see what comes out of next week. Donald Trump on Thursday leaves for a big West Coast fundraising trip both in California and Nevada. I mean, the really interesting thing here is that we spent the big portion of the first part of this year talking about how no one, none of these big time voters wanted to get behind Donald Trump.
And now it seems as though they're all starting to circle the wagons.
BURNETT: Yeah. I mean, amazing. All of them after what they said and what they thought, now doing this.
Kristen, thank you very much, outside Trump Tower tonight.
And even as Trump is now raised $53 million in small donor money, they say, and untold more at this point from those big donor dinners, he is preparing to be sentenced. That's the reality and that's scheduled to happen on July 11, since could range from jail time to probation or community service. But before the judge decides a pre-sentencing report needs to be prepared and Trump will be spending time gathering letters of support, tried to convince the judge to -- for an easier sentence.
OUTFRONT now, Mark O'Mara, criminal defense attorney and former prosecutor.
So, Mark, obviously, you know, it's going to be fascinating to be a fly on the wall for that process for Trump's team. Can you explain what happens next from now until that sentencing day, assuming that it remains on July 11?
MARK O'MARA, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Yes, sure. The pre-sentence investigation you mentioned, it's just that baseline almost foundation has done usually by the probation parole department, just to give the judge some insight into the demographics in this case, everyone knows what its going to be in that report.
But more importantly, are they sentencing presentations that are going to be made by either you decide. They're called aggravation. That'll be the prosecutor coming in and saying, give Mr. Trump a harsh sentence and here's why.
And mitigation from the other side, the defense go and give him very little sentence or probation, whatever, and here's why. And it's going to be very interesting because the way those to present to the court, it's going to open up arguments, one to the other. The better Trump's team says he is, the more that they state will come in and say, no, he's not.
And that opens up everything from hearsay, to letters, to witnesses, to almost innuendo as to who this person is, is about pre-sentence, because the sentencing procedure is pretty wide open, as far as what you want to present.
BURNETT: You know, it's an incredible just to go through this. I mean, this is the system, this is the system at work and he's obviously as part of this with as a convicted felon prior to sentencing, I know the standard here, Mark is for him to sit down with an interview with a probation officer. So, what -- what happens in that interview?
I mean, I guess what happens in it? What do you think would happen in the case of Trump?
O'MARA: In the case of Trump, if I'm on his team, I am not going to let him say very much to probation officer. You cannot inquire -- the judge cannot require it, so I would say he's going nowhere near an interview. And the reason why is there so much information that then would be public knowledge that could come back to haunt him in any of the other cases that he has going.
[19:25:17]
And quite honestly, if I were to look at the tea leaves from this and many other cases, this judge probably has within five or 10 percent of his mind made up, not in a bad way, but you cant live in this case as a judge know, the case inside out and not already have a gut as to where you're going.
BURNETT: Yeah.
O'MARA: And let's face it, nothing that's going to be said in aggravation from the state including the other cases pending and everything else and other whatever they want to present. You know what they're going to say as to how good a person Donald J. Trump is, is really going to have significant impact on the court.
BURNETT: It's really interesting that you say a judge would only have five to 10 percent of their mind made up. I mean, honestly, without thinking of judges bias, I think it'd be -- oh, the other way around, okay.
O'MARA: He's 90 percent of his mind made-up.
BURNETT: Okay, good. That makes sense to me because I'm thinking, wow, he's been seeing their six weeks and he's okay. So I get it. I'm glad you clarified. I misheard you.
So, Michael Cohen, was just here a couple of moments ago he said, look, he wants Trump to experience what he did. He talks about how -- prison in solitary confinement stole his soul, but then he said that he thought Trump would get home confinement and he would support that because of Trump having held the office of president of the United States.
Do you agree with that?
O'MARA: So if I would commit and be convicted of the crimes that Donald J. Trump was just convicted. I think I would go to jail. I just think so because if he's guilty of what they say, he's guilty having now the jury is set. So not only is it 34 felony counts, but it's a real attack on the institute you should have democracy in America without getting all up on a pedestal, and that's very significant. And I think I would go to prison for it.
Now, I tend to agree with Mr. Cohen's suggestion that I think the judge has to look beyond Mr. Trump in this situation and say, we have a former president of the United States, we may actually also have an upcoming future presence of the United States and I think the idea of protecting that level of American democracy may outweigh the idea that Donald J. Trump convicted felon needs to be in prison or jail.
I think he will stay at home in a very harsh home confinement setup.
BURNETT: It is interesting, though, these thoughts and what Judge Merchan no doubt is thinking.
All right. Thank you so much, Mark. Great to see you.
O'MARA: Great to see you. Be well.
BURNETT: All right. You, too.
And next, will former President Trump's historic conviction sway voters? Is it so far?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think that when you do bad, that God sees what you do. And he punishes you as he sees fit.
(END VIDEO CLIP) BURNETT: Republican governor of South Dakota, Kristi Noem, is next.
Plus, President Biden so far opting not to call Trump a convicted felon. Will that change? The co-chair from his campaign is up ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:32:06]
BURNETT: Tonight, President Biden mum on how he believed Donald Trump's historic conviction on 34 different felony counts may affect the 2024 rematch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REPORTER: Donald Trump refers to himself as a political prisoner and blames you directly. What's your response to that, sir? Do you think that conviction will have an impact on the campaign? We'd love to hear your thoughts, sir.
REPORTER: Should be on the ballot, sir?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: But what do voters think, especially on one of the crucial swing states that will likely decide the election.
Nick Valencia is OUTFRONT.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MILLICENT ABBEY, LIFELONG DEMOCRAT WHO NOW SUPPORTS TRUMP: Trump for '24. Go Trump!
NICK VALENCIA, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Millicent Abbey gets too emotional when talking about Donald Trump.
ABBEY: I love you, Trump. Mwah, mwah!
VALENCIA: When you look at that flag, what do you think? What do you see? What do you feel?
ABBEY: Well, I just I just feel he's coming back.
VALENCIA: The 64-year-old grandmother was right here at her home in Atlanta when the guilty verdict came down. She wasn't watching. Her husband, who was a Democrat, was, but Abbey says she made up her mind a long time ago.
ABBEY: Except that we've added a little bit because they say, well Trump this, Trump that, he's going to jail, this and that, who cares, who cares? We don't care.
VALENCIA: You don't care at all that he's a convicted felon now?
ABBEY: No, we don't, no. VALENCIA: Do you understand that some people would say, you know, the justice system worked here? He is --
ABBEY: What justice system?
VALENCIA: Out on the trail of Atlanta's belt line, the heart of the city's liberal enclave, voters were shocked anyone could still support Trump after the guilty verdict.
JADEN HUCKABY, FIRST TIME VOTER: I just think its crazy. I think somebody who doesn't know your name doesn't care about you at all having that kind of loyalty to somebody who would throw you to the dirt for nothing is insane.
JOSHUA HUCKABY, LIBERAL LEANING VOTER: I think that Trump is kind of put himself in this position where he is seen as almost a religious figure by a lot of his supporters. And they are willing to follow him regardless of what he does. And that is -- that is a scary thing.
GINA WAOTA, LIBERAL LEANING VOTER: I'm kind of upset that he could still so ran for president and being a felon but that's how it is.
DEB KAHN, WILL VOTE FOR BIEN SO TRUMP WON'T WIN: He's clearly just the most despicable person who's ever run in this country.
VALENCIA: And the guilty verdict?
KAHN: Oh, I mean, I'm not surprised.
VALENCIA: Twenty miles north, in Cobb County, voters here weren't surprised either in this populace Atlanta suburb crucial to Biden flipping Georgia four years ago, people we spoke to watch the case closely. For more than a dozen voters we spoke to, the verdict reaffirmed the way they were already leaning.
Do you think that he got a fair shake?
JAMES HENLY, COBB COUNTY VOTER: I think so.
VALENCIA: Yeah.
HENLY: Yeah, I think so. I mean it was a jury of twelve and that's how we've always done in his country.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Every man knows he did. You know, he is, he's guilty.
MELODY RICHESON, INDEPENDENT WHO WON'T VOTE FOR TRUMP: I think everything happens for a reason and I think that when you do bad, that God sees what you do and he punishes you as he sees fit.
VALENCIA: Do you wish that Trump could be president forever?
ABBEY: Yes, I would.
[19:35:00] VALENCIA: As for Millicent Abbey, she says nothing would stop her from voting for Trump in November.
So he could literally go on Fifth Avenue and shoot someone as he says --
ABBEY: I'd support him.
VALENCIA: -- and you would support him?
ABBEY: Yes, I would.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
VALENCIA: Some of you may be wondering how we met Millicent Abbey. Well, I was driving through town, Atlanta earlier this week and I saw Trump flag, which is sort of a rarity for a deep blue counties. So we started there and knocked on her door. I don't think any of us expected who to meet -- who we met when she came to the door. But she tells me she's such a hardcore supporter of Trump to the bone that she would vote Democrat again, if Trump switched parties because she says she believes he's a good person.
But every other voter that we spoke to wasn't as convinced. In fact, one of the voters that we spoke to in that piece says that she is reluctantly voting for Joe Biden because Trump has been proven to be as bad of a person and she doesn't want a hand the election over in a state where it was such a small margin of victory in the last election -- Erin.
BURNETT: All right. Nick, thank you. It's fascinating and fascinating to hear from all of them.
OUTFRONT now, the Republican governor of South Dakota, Kristi Noem.
And, Governor Noem, I really appreciate your time.
And obviously, you heard voters different points of view there. I want to ask you about one of them in particular because she describes herself as a Christian and an independent voter, two obviously very important groups to Trump to win this election. She said, she's turned off by Trump now. She said, quote, when you do bad, God sees what you do. Any punishes you as he sees fit.
What do you say to her?
GOV. KRISTI NOEM (R-SD): You know, I would talk to her about winning her heart and mind back to the policies that really worked for the average American. You know, as governor, I've had the chance to serve as governor under President Trump and under Joe Biden. And every day that President Trump was in the White House, I had the chance to be on offense for my families in South Dakota. We were able to work on real solutions to put more money in their pockets. We were able to drive down gas costs and grocery costs for them. They had more opportunities, created more jobs. As soon as President Biden went into the White House, I went on defense. We've had fighting inflation, we've got an open border that's making their communities more dangerous.
So what I would say to her is look at your quality of life today and tell me what it's like compared to when President Trump was in office? Because the one thing about President Trump that I'm grateful for is I've never seen somebody gets so attacked, so attacked and especially throughout this trial, it was one that was obviously a sham trial that was set up for a conviction so that they could get a talking point to win an election, and that is one thing that I'm just so surprised by is that every day when I've talked to people, they see through it and they recognize when this happened.
And there's a role. People -- people talk about what a dark day in history this is, I think it really is a day of hope because I see President Trump's still willing to stand up and fight for our freedom. He said today, he wanted to fight to continue to protect our Constitution. That's the foundation of America.
And to have someone who can go so attacked and try to be destroyed by, they want to destroy him and his family. I think everybody who had a part in this trial is going to go down in history as being a part of trying to take down America and a man who is trying to protect it.
BURNETT: So I want to show you, call it a sham trial. I'm curious what your thoughts are next week, Hunter Biden's on trial in a case brought by Joe Biden's Department of Justice. Is that a sham trial, too?
NOEM: No, I think it was interesting about the trial with President Trump is that we had a judge that obviously I had donated to President Biden before when he is requirements by New York ethics rules said that you had to recuse himself and that type of situation. He did not. Instead, he's still presided over this entire process.
President Trump, to ask for this to be moved to a different venue, knowing the 90 percent of the voters there did not support him. They voted for President Biden. He did not get the benefit of that. He did not get his witnesses that he wanted that would have brought clarity to federal election rules.
He did not get the same kind of treatment from the judge that the prosecution did. They got incredible latitude. You just had Michael Cohen on for goodness sakes, a man who admitted in the last couple of weeks that to grand theft, larceny. The man is a known thief and a liar and has done it over and over again and lied under oath to Congress, and now, with the guy who wants his credibility back --
(CROSSTALK)
BURNETT: Of course, he said he did on behalf out of his boss at the time, President Trump. But --
NOEM: Well, of course, he's trying to save his own reputation, but he doesn't have any left. And that's the problem is they built this whole case around a guy like Michael Cohen who will say and do anything that benefits Michael Cohen. And that's what's sad about this, Erin, and makes me said, is that law and order is supposed to be blind and --
(CROSSTALK)
BURNETT: And what about the 12 people who sat there? Governor, I was in that courtroom several days. Several people testified and I had the opportunity to watch the jury and they paid attention. They were indefatigable in paying attention. They were serious. There was no, no favor shown by any of them, and you could look at them.
And they were times as you know, I don't know, if you've heard people said, oh, well, one of them was sort of nodding and smiling at J.D. Vance, maybe there was bias on the other side.
They came out unanimously, 12 of you and my American citizen colleagues, and they came to this conclusion.
[19:40:07]
Are they a sham? Are they rigged?
NOEM: No, I believe that this jury is 12 people that sat there and listened to what they were presented, and that what they were presented was unbalanced, that the prosecution was treated very differently than the defense. The instructions that they were given were unconstitutional, and that what this jury worked with, what they had.
To see a trial lasts six weeks, and then they go out to deliberate and they come back so quickly, on 34 counts. I mean, that's just -- that's --
BURNETT: I mean, it was 12 hours and then we actually did a piece on this. I mean, it actually was longer than a lot of other trials to be honest, I mean, it wasn't -- wasn't that short.
NOEM: The deliberation was longer for a six-week trial?
(CROSSTALK)
BURNETT: The deliberation was a lot that we had looked at. I mean, they -- they are going -- I mean, are you questioning their -- I mean, you know, it's interesting.
NOEM: No, I don't question. I don't question the jury's efforts. I question the process for how this trial was conducted by this judge, an activist judge, an activist judge who very much decided how he wanted this to come out, got exactly what he wanted, and the prosecutors got what they wanted.
They had this plan for a long time and they think its going to work to them politically to benefit and what they're doing is undermining America in our foundations. So I'm going to continue to make sure that we look and show the proof of what these leaders do and the impact they have on the families in this country, that President Trump did --
BURNETT: Can I ask you one question? NOEM: Sure.
BURNETT: I actually am very curious about this. I want to ask you something else too, but, Governor, when you were saying you don't question what the jury did, you don't like the instructions they were given, what they were presented, but are you saying then that if you had been sitting on that jury, that you would have come to the same conclusion with the context of the rules and the evidence that was presented to you?
NOEM: I don't -- I don't answer hypotheticals. I have no idea what its like to sit in their shoes and sit in their seats all day like they did.
So what I would say is that the American people should look at the facts surrounding what just happened the last six weeks and the unprecedented actions that were taken during in this trial. And take it for what its worth and recognize that we need a president that back in the White House that gets up every day and fights for them.
And our world was much more secure then as well. Look at what happened this week, what President Biden and his team have been able to do to distract America with this trial. They were not just talking about this open border, the fact that President Biden is violating federal law by allowing this open border to happen.
(CROSSTALK)
BURNETT: Governor Noem, I do think it's important to note that the trial was not brought by the Department of Justice, which is bringing a case against President Biden, son Hunter Biden that starts next week. This case, the Department of Justice did not choose to pursue against Trump. It was brought by New York.
So you just said that President Biden's case, that's not true.
NOEM: We all know that the Obama administration officials that were route to this D.A.s office in order to bring forward this type of action against President Trump. And we all recognize a Hillary Clinton did this exact same thing and she paid a fine for it. And instead, when it's President Trump and no crime was committed, and he did nothing wrong, instead, they bring 34 felony counts and convictions against him?
It's complete different judicial treatment and that is what is being undermined in our country that I think is so unfortunate, so devastating to us going forward.
And meanwhile, in the rest of the world, we have Israel that we need to rebuild trust, with President Biden who gave a very confusing press conference today, destabilizing the Middle East. And then we saw the United States allow Ukraine to use Western weapons to go into elevate hostilities with Russia. We're one step away --
BURNETT: I'd love to have a broader conversation with you about that, I'd love to have a broader conversation with you about Ukraine. NOEM: We shouldn't get distracted from those issues.
BURNETT: But I want to ask you, when you talk about the conviction and Donald Trump is now a convicted felon of 34 counts. He has said that your name is on his list for VP, Governor. Just a few weeks ago, we called you a terrific person. He said, I like her a lot.
If he offers you the VP spot, are you willing to run and serve with him even though he is now a convicted felon?
NOEM: You know, I just want him to win and he knows that. I've told him that before, is that, sir, I just want you to win because I know how different life was when you were in the White House making the decisions.
And I love my job as governor. I absolutely love it, and I love my state. So -- but I want him to win. And so I'll do what I can to be helpful.
BURNETT: All right. Well, Governor Noem, I appreciate your time tonight. Thank you very much.
NOEM: Thank you, Erin. You bet. You have a wonderful evening.
BURNETT: You, too.
And next I'm going to get reaction to what Governor Noem just said from the co-chair of the Biden campaign.
Plus, if Trump is sentenced to jail time, what would his time behind bars look like? Special report ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:48:47]
BURNETT: Tonight, Republican Governor Kristi Noem, just now OUTFRONT, echoing the sediments of many Republican politicians in the wake of Donald Trump's conviction on 34 felony counts, blasting the legal system and alleging that President Biden was involved, he was not.
OUTFRONT now to respond to Noem's comments, Cedric Richmond, co-chair of the Biden-Harris 2024 campaign, also was a senior adviser and the Biden White House.
So, Cedric, you were sitting there and you had a chance to listen to Governor Noem. She made the allegation that this was a, quote, sham trial that we set up to help Democrats win the election. She was very clear about that.
What's your response to that?
CEDRIC RICHMOND, CO-CHAIR OF THE BIDEN-HARRIS 2024 CAMPAIGN: It's sad. It's sad to see so many Republicans just forfeit their morals and their conscience to please Donald Trump. And I think we see that over and over again. I had the pleasure of serving with the governor in Congress.
But now, you see that Donald Trump has taken over the Republican Party and it's all about Donald Trump. And when you look at President Biden, he's more concerned with the American people, and I think that now you see that probably more than ever before.
BURNETT: So, a Marist poll that just came out this week shows and I'm saying obviously came out before the actual condition, says 67 percent of registered voters, so that if Trump was convicted, it would make no difference to their vote, 15 percent said it would make them more likely to vote for Trump, 17 percent less likely.
[19:50:08]
And we just got the numbers. I don't know if you heard, Cedric, because we probably weren't hooked in yet. But you may have known the numbers last night. They said they raised $34.8 million in a few hours, there now up to $55 million in small donations in just a few more additional hours, $55 million raised on the back of this conviction.
What kind of effect do you think this conviction its actually going to have on the election?
RICHMOND: Well, the best way to get rid of Donald Trump is to beat him at the ballot box and we're going to continue to say that, and we're going to continue to run a campaign focused on American people and the issues that they face and with the president, the former presidents not surprising that is hard core base doubled down and gave him money because he asked for it.
But that is his hardcore base and I think that when you look at moderate Republicans, you look at independence. I think that this is disqualifying for them. And they will already on the verge anyway, but we will continue to run a campaign based on what the president has been able to do -- his vision for the country, his character, his wisdom, and we will point out the alternative.
But I think that no matter how hard his advocates and Governor Noem tries to paint a picture of pleasant days when he was in. Clearly, they forgot the hundreds of thousands of Americans that died, the 54 percent of schools that were closed when he was in office, the fact that he lost more jobs. He's the second president history of the United States to lose more jobs than --
BURNETT: But do you worry people that all on COVID, and they say that COVID and not him?
RICHMOND: Well, his response to COVID was incompetent and ridiculous. Remember, he said, it'll just go away. He encouraged Americans to drink bleach.
We came into office on the first day we got vaccines out and we made sure that we treated it in a responsible way for the pandemic that he was and we got schools open, we got checks on people's pockets, and we got kids back in school and people back at work. BURNETT: All right. Well, I obviously, I would like to ask you a lot
more about that because I think there's a lot of complexity over the second Biden set of checks and Trump's and the inflation were facing now.
But, Cedric, I want to ask you about something that I played a few moments ago, and I went to give you a chance to respond and the context I want to put around it is from the most recent polling, we have 23 percent of Black voters would choose Trump and a two-way race between Trump and Biden. Obviously, that's an incredibly high number relative to historic elections.
And Nick Valencia was in Georgia. He was in a swing county. He was -- saw Trump flag went and knocked on the door. The woman who met him at the door who lives there as a black voter, self-described lifelong Democrat. And she now supports Trump.
So he asked her why, and she said this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
VALENCIA: You don't care at all that he's a convicted felon now?
ABBEY: Nope.
VALENCIA: Do you understand that some people would say, you know, the justice system worked here?
ABBEY: What justice system?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: How concerned are you about sentiments like that?
RICHMOND: Well, we have work to do in terms of all demographics, but in the Black community, we have to make sure that we get out. We talked to them, we knock doors and we communicate that under President Biden, we reduce Black child poverty by 50 percent, that Black unemployment is the all-time low, Black business startup is an all- time high, Black wealth is up 60 percent. The racial wealth gap is the lowest it's ever been.
But we have to communicate that and that's what campaigns are for. We'll continue to do it.
BURNETT: Yeah.
RICHMOND: Republican obstruction blocked the George Floyd Act, but the president did it with an executive order. They blocked the John Lewis Voting Rights Act. The president did it with an executive order.
The Supreme Court blocked student loan forgiveness, but the president did it with his authority.
So that's what we're going to do. Were going to go out and were going to make the case for why this president deserves reelection. BURNETT: All right. Well, Cedric Richmond, I appreciate your time and
thank you very much on this Friday. And next, what Trump could be looking at -- if you look at the full guidelines, it could be 20 years behind bars, not going to be that. The question is really actually go to prison. And if he does, where would he go?
Special report next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:56:33]
BURNETT: Tonight, 187 years in prison. That is what Trump is telling his supporters he's facing after being convicted on all 34 counts, that of course is false. New York has a maximum of 20 years for felonies like this. And there's a real question about whether hell actually serve anytime in prison.
Jason Carroll is OUTFRONT.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
TRUMP: This is a scam.
JASON CARROLL, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Donald Trump showed no sign of contrition in front of cameras today, the former president choosing some of his words carefully.
TRUMP: I'm under a gag order, nasty gag order, where I've had to pay thousands of dollars in penalties and fines, and was threatened with jail.
CARROLL: Trump has already violated the court's gag order ten times violations, which can be considered during his sentencing. It's just one of the factors Judge Juan Merchan will review now that Trump has been convicted on all 34 counts of falsifying business records.
Each count carries up to a $5,000 fine and a maximum of a four-year prison sentence, though, legal experts say jail time for Trump seems unlikely for a number of reasons, including Trump is a first-time offender. His age, he's 77-years-old and he was convicted for a low- level felony.
And consider this, according to "The New York Law Journal", that Manhattan district attorneys office, has prosecuted more than 400 cases involving falsifying business records since 2015. Recent data shows just one in ten resulted in a defendant serving jail time.
If and again, a very big if Trump is sentenced to jail time, he could end up at any one of several facilities in New York City, including the notorious Rikers Island.
DORA SCHRIRO, CORRECTIONS EXPERT: The majority of the facilities are on Rikers, but there are what are also referred to as borough houses, jails that are located in four of the five rows of New York.
CARROLL: Trump would also have what corrections experts call sight and sound separation from the general inmate population.
SCHRIRO: Some of it is we would accomplish separation for the safety and security of that individual and others.
CARROLL: Dan Horwitz is a defense attorney who has some insight into the workings of the Manhattan district attorneys office.
DANIEL HORWITZ, FORMER MANHATTAN ASSISTANT DISTRICT ATTORNEY: If he wasn't the former president, if he wasn't running for president again, this would be an entirely different conversation.
CARROLL: Horwitz formerly prosecuted white-collar cases for the Manhattan D.A. and says are more realistic outcome for Trump might involve in paying a fine, sentenced to probation, a conditional discharge, or home detention.
HORWITZ: Would you prefer to sit at Mar-a-Lago, maybe play a round of golf ill fifth the probation department of commits you to do that, but you're not permitted to go on the campaign trail. I guarantee you that Donald Trump would say, I'd prefer not to have home detention. It is a restriction on your liberty. There is no doubt about that.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CARROLL (on camera): Certainly, Trump's critics would not like to see him serve any of his time at any of his luxury properties including here at Trump Tower. Whatever the sentence, Judge Merchan has a number of options -- Erin.
BURNETT: All right. Jason, thank you very much.
And before we go, some news, just breaking tonight. The Obama's are announcing that Michelle's mother, Marian Robinson, passed away today in Chicago in a statement, former President Obama writing: With a healthy nudge, she agreed to move to the White House. We needed her. The girls needed her, and she ended up being our rock through at all.
According to Michelle Obama, she was most popular person in the White House, something she and her mother have spoken about.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARIAN ROBINSON, MICHELLE OBAMA'S MOTHER: I'd talked them into allowing me to do my own laundry.
MICHELLE OBAMA, FORMER FIRST LADY: And she was the most beloved figure in the White House. Let me tell you. She had a stream of people, the butlers, the housekeepers, they would all stop by and they would -- grandma's room was like the confessional.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Marian Robinson was 86 years old.
Thanks for joining us.
"AC360" with Anderson starts now.
