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Erin Burnett Outfront

Ninth Dem Rep Calls On Biden To Quit: "We Will All Be Better Served"; Interview With Sen. John Fetterman (D-PA); VP Harris Fiercely Defends Biden As New Doubts Surface; Fake Electors Tapped To Make Trump Nomination Official At RNC. Aired 7-8p ET

Aired July 10, 2024 - 19:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[19:00:39]

ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST: OUTFRONT next:

Another House Democrat calling for Biden to drop out as he faces his next major test with his own party, a solo news conference, unscripted.

Senator John Fetterman, one of the staunchest Biden supporters, at this hour is my guest.

Plus, all eyes on Kamala Harris as Trump turns his focus to attack her personally. Is he now just betting that she's going to be on the top of the Democratic ticket?

And also tonight, summer camp in North Korea. We've got one student's story about what Kim Jong-un's loyal followers did as they tried to brainwash him. It's an incredible story. He speaks to CNN.

Let's go OUTFRONT.

And good evening. I'm Erin Burnett.

OUTFRONT tonight, we begin with the breaking news, a ninth House Democrat just calling on President Biden draw from the presidential race that Democrat, Congressman Earl Blumenauer of Oregon. In a statement, he writes: This is not just about extending his presidency, but protecting democracy. While this is a decision for the president and the first lady, I hope they will come to the conclusion that I and others have: President Biden should not be the Democratic presidential nominee.

And just moments ago, the president just facing an onslaught of questions about his health and the future of his campaign and Biden, this all happened while he was meeting with the new British prime minister, chose not to answer any of them. Let me play the moment for you.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Well, we got lots to talk about. Thank you all for coming.

(CROSSTALK)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BURNETT: A cacophony met with silence.

This is a president who wants to put the debate fallout behind him. He's made that loud and clear, but he is now facing new calls to drop out of the race along with some not so subtle messages from top Democrats night to reconsider his candidacy.

The biggest name to weigh in is Nancy Pelosi. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. NANCY PELOSI (D-CA): It's up to the president to decide if he is going to run. We're all encouraging him to make that decision because time is running short.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BURNETT: And, of course, he's already made that decision. He's made it loud and clear. She knows that. To imply that he needs to make a decision -- well, it's not hard to read between the lines there.

And Senator Tim Kaine of Virginia, the Democrats' nominee for vice president in 2016, of course, just spoke to reporters and he said this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. TIM KAINE (D-VA): I have complete confidence that Joe Biden would do the patriotic thing for the country. And he's going to make that decision. He's never disappointed me.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BURNETT: Again, he's going to make that decision. He's already made that decision. It just appears that a lot of Democrats don't like it.

Biden, so far, is adamant that he is staying in the race, but there is mounting pressure for him to step aside from his party. Just today, Congressman Pat Ryan called on Biden to step down. In his statement, he said for the good of our country, I am asking Joe Biden to step aside to deliver on his promise to be a bridge to a new generation of leaders.

And other Democrats also publicly expressing their concerns.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. RICHARD BLUMENTHAL (D-CT): I am deeply concerned about Joe Biden winning this November.

REP. ELISSA SLOTKIN (D-MI): Right now, President Biden is behind Trump in all of our polling, in the Senate races in a dead heat.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BURNETT: Now, Biden is hoping to ease concerns, already did the NATO speech. Now, tomorrow, he is holding a crucial solo news conference. He has agreed to another primetime interview and he sending three of his senior advisers to Capitol Hill to meet with Democratic senators tomorrow.

The dissent, though, is still there, and one of Biden's biggest backers, a man, you can see here was just with the president about four weeks ago and helped raise $30 million for him, is now calling on the president to step aside. George Clooney in a "New York Times" op- ed writes: It's devastating to say it, but the Joe Biden, I was with three weeks ago at the fundraiser was not the Joe "big F-ing deal" Biden of 2010. He wasn't even the job Biden of 2020. He was the same man we all witnessed at the debate.

Now, I've been speaking to major donors, many of them are extremely concerned. There kind of sense throwing spaghetti at the wall if possible scenarios. I did speak to one major donor though today who did tell me he is still all in on Biden.

[19:05:05]

The cacophony, though, of voices is out there.

And MJ Lee is OUTFRONT live outside the White House to begin our coverage tonight.

And, MJ, I know you've been talking to all of your sources. You've got new reporting right now. What are you learning about what's happening tonight?

MJ LEE, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Erin, my colleagues and I have heard from many Democrats throughout the course of the day who are just stunned at how rapidly things appear to be deteriorating for President Biden. One widely shared view had really been that everything was going to come to a head after the conclusion of the NATO summit, which the U.S. is hosting just blocks away from here from the White House.

Instead, we have seen this quick succession of really ominous and painful headlines for President Biden as he has been trying to juggle these various engagements with world leaders. You take through some of them, Nancy Pelosi saying that it's up to the president to decide if he's going to continue running. That really went off like a political earthquake.

Senator Tim Kaine saying, he is going to ultimately make the right decision. And then, of course, the George Clooney news that you just referenced, that comes at a moment when plenty of donors have told CNN that the money is just a pause right now, and there is the real danger of the money completed elite drawing up for Democrats as people tried to figure out what exactly is going to happen for the future of the president and whether he really is going to stay in this race.

And all of this is happening while the Biden White House and the Biden campaign has very much been digging in. Their message has really been, not only is the debate over, but we are done debating the debate. The voters have spoken and there is no scenario where President Biden is going to drop out.

But, of course, this huge moment that everyone is looking towards tomorrow, the press conference that the president will be holding with reporters, a lot of Democrats have been looking forward to that moment see whether he can use that to really prove himself in a big way. But I think it is clear after the events of the last 24 hours, there are many Democrats that are simply wondering, are there going to be more shoes to drop before that press conference tomorrow?

BURNETT: MJ, thank you very much from the White House.

And right now, Bart Dame joins me. He is one of the all-important Democratic super delegates, crucial in that party, who could ultimately decide the Democratic ticket if Biden drops out.

Keisha Lance bottoms is a senior adviser to the Biden-Harris campaign.

And Paul Begala is the former White House counselor to President Clinton. Of course, advised so many presidential campaigns.

So, thanks to all.

Mayor Bottoms, I just want to start with you because you hear M.J.'s reporting. The Democrats and the White House, they've been stunned by the rapid unraveling that they have seen just in these past hours today. You've got the ninth Democrat in Congress calling on Biden to step aside, understand nine out of 200, but it just -- it just continues to drip, drip.

What's your reaction?

KEISHA LANCE BOTTOMS, FORMER ATLANTA MAYOR: Yeah, it's astonishing, quite frankly. We've said that for three-and-a-half years and we watched the Republican Party implode and for us to be on this suicide mission at this point in time is very disappointing.

What I love about the Democratic Party is that we get to express our opinions and we aren't subjected to ridicule. We aren't threatened with balance. We aren't ostracized but what I would ask everyone when we do this in a way that it's happening now, what happens in November when Joe Biden is still our nominee? Do we throw up our hands and say, oh, my bad, we still want you to go and vote for the president and help us save democracy? What's the end game here?

And so, what I would say that until Joe Biden tells us differently, he is still our nominee. If we want to defeat Donald Trump in November, we have to rally around our nominee and do everything that we can do to make sure that he and Kamala Harris win in November and this infighting then get us any closer to victory.

BURNETT: So, Bart, and just to be clear, MJ saying Democrats she's been speaking to, broadly speaking, not necessarily in the White House, had these concerns about unraveling. So, Bart, when you hear what Mayor Bottoms is saying, where do you

stand? Do you think Biden should step aside at this point?

BART DAME, DNC CONVENTION DELEGATE: I have great respect for Mayor Bottoms. I was able to hear her speaking one of our meetings. She's very impressive.

I have a different take though on a different kind of responsibility. When 51 million, 52 million people watched that debate and a lot of us were dumbfounded by what we saw, I started getting phone calls, text messages emails, I get stopped on the street or since I'm in Hawaii, stopped on the beach and people say, what can we do to save this situation? And I'm hearing a lot of people who want to at least discuss and a lot of people who are leaning towards trying to get Joe Biden to step aside and bring in another candidate who we think might have a stronger chance against Donald Trump in November.

[19:10:10]

BURNETT: So, Paul, what happens here? I mean, I just speaking to some major donors in the past couple of days, I have been amazed at sort of how none of them know what to do. Yes, it's clear the money is freezing up, but in a sense that the possibilities out there, it is like throwing spaghetti against the wall. What about this? What about this? What about this?

What happens here, Paul?

PAUL BEGALA, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, I'm hearing the same thing, Erin, from grassroots Democrats as well as donors and a lot of elected officials.

Here's my view, I've been thinking a lot about that Carrie Underwood country song, "Jesus, Take the Wheel". My song would be Nancy take the wheel, okay? She has been the best speaker in American history.

And I think what she was saying this morning when she said the president has important decision to make, we back him completely, is she's telling us not only by the way, is the best legislative leader of American history, but as a mother of five, I've raised four kids. I know, there's a time at which permission becomes more powerful than pressure, right?

So instead of piling on, getting, you know, getting nasty with the president, with president nasty with Democrats who are concerned, I think the thing to do here is to listen to Speaker emerita Pelosi and pull back a little bit.

I think Senator Kaine and the comments you reported earlier its doing that. Stepping back the president is the leader of the free world. And right now, Vladimir Putin is bombing a children's hospital in Kyiv.

And Donald Trump is attacking Liz Cheney. Not criticizing Vladimir Putin, a war criminal, he's attacking his fellow Republicans, Mitch McConnell and Mike Pence and Liz Cheney. So there's an opportunity cost here. So I think what Speaker emerita Pelosi might be saying is, let's just

pull back here and give President Biden time to finish this summit and then do the right thing because I think a lot of Democrats think that he can't win.

BURNETT: So, Mayor Bottoms, Nancy Pelosi, obviously, early on "Morning Joe" made those comments, right? As if there was a decision to be made. Although we all know the president, of course, has said -- he's made this decision. There is no decision to be made.

So, when later on in the day she was approached by reporters to say, well, what did you just say there? She had a testy exchange with that reporter from ABC, and let me just play it for you, Mayor.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REPORTER: Do you believe that waiting so long to make a decision --

PELOSI: I'm not going to be making any comments in the hallway about the fate of our nation. Okay?

REPORTER: Are you concerned whether or not he can win in November?

PELOSI: I think he can win in November.

REPORTER: Do you think he should run for reelection?

PELOSI: I'm not -- am I speaking English to you? I'm not going to make any statements about any of that right now in the hallway.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BURNETT: You know, Mayor, I was speaking to another donor today who said, you know, one of the biggest concerns this person had is that the Democrats are essentially going to kill their chances of winning because they're the ones shooting down their own candidate. There -- there is that fear.

Nancy Pelosi said there, I think he can win in November. Do you, Mayor Bottoms, think that Joe Biden can win in November, given where we are right now?

BOTTOMS: Absolutely believe that he can and will win in November. I've been talking to a lot of people, too, and they aren't in Washington, D.C. I've been talking to everyday folks, even talking to the person who drove me home from the airport today, and I asked his opinion and what he said was, we need to defeat Donald Trump, and we need to -- this is the time that we circle around Joe Biden and lift him up.

And that's a sentiment that I'm getting from people, every day folk that I'm talking to. And again, I have great respect for all of these peoples, all of these leaders who have expressed their opinions, but at this point in time, our has said he's not getting out of the race. He is still our nominee.

So, we need to support our nominee. We aren't doing ourselves any favors by creating this circular firing squad. As I talk to people everyday, people are terrified of another Donald Trump presidency and what that possibly could mean for all of us, and people want to win. And as long as Joe Biden is at the top of the ticket, where he says he will remain then as Democrats, we need to circle around and make sure he wins in November.

BURNETT: Bart, what's your response to that? That mayor is saying this is time to circle around, not to circular firing squad.

DAME: Well, I think we all agree that we want to defeat Donald Trump. I think where we might disagree is whether Joe Biden is the strongest candidate to do that.

I am -- again, I am not part of some elite. I am somebody on the street who is having people come up to me and volunteering their opinions and they're desperate.

[19:15:00]

I don't think we're panicking. I think what we're doing is we're assessing our options. And I think it's reasonable for any conscientious object -- excuse me, a Democrat to have be torn in both directions. Even with the mayor, I hear him saying as long as he wants to be the nominee, then he is the nominee, and we should support him.

It may be that he's not going to be the nominee. There's pressures that they're forming. There are movements that are going hang on behind the scenes. I'm only privy to a small part of them, but every day, there's more and more evidence that Democrats are unhappy.

BURNETT: All right. Bart, Paul, Mayor Bottoms, thank you all very much. I appreciate your time.

And as we get ready to take a brief break, we do have some breaking news. The Democratic Senator Peter Welch just telling Biden to get out of the race. That is a new name, Democratic Senator Peter Welch. That news dropping just seconds ago.

And I'm going to speak to the Democratic Senator John Fetterman in a moment. He has not wavered one bit on his support for President Biden.

Plus, Giuliani's outburst. A judge silencing the former New York City mayor after he started yelling in court during a bankruptcy hearing today. At one point, Giuliani even threatened with jail. You've got new details from inside that courtroom.

And an exclusive OUTFRONT investigation tonight, Putin-backed men caught on tape trying to sabotage the United States. And you'll see how.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:20:43]

BURNETT: Breaking news, Democratic Senator Peter Welch of Vermont becoming the first Democrat in the Senate to formally call on Biden to drop out of the race, writing in a "Washington Post" op-ed just published moments ago.

And I quote the senator: I have great respect for President Biden. He saved our country from a tyrant. He is a man of uncommon decency. He cares deeply about our democracy. He has been one of the best presidents of our time.

But I, like folks across the country, am worried about November's election. The stakes could not be higher. We cannot unsee President Biden's disastrous debate performance. We cannot ignore or dismiss the valid questions raised since that night.

And I bring OUTFRONT now, the Democratic Senator John Fetterman of Pennsylvania.

SEN. JOHN FETTERMAN (D-PA): Hi.

BURNETT: Of course, Senator Fetterman has been a steadfast vocal supporter of Biden's since the debate.

And, Senator, I so much appreciate your time, so I just want to give you a chance to respond to Senator Welch.

FETTERMAN: Yeah, yeah. Senator Welch, I mean, he's a good friend and I -- and he is the nicest dude in D.C. I've said that on the record.

So I actually disagree with my friend. I don't believe that's -- I don't agree with him on that, and if I did have that kind of an opinion, I wouldn't have necessarily gone public on "The Washington Post".

But he's entitled to his opinion, but I'm entitled to mine and I just don't agree with my friend, strongly disagree with -- at all.

BURNETT: So, I know you're going to be meeting tomorrow, Senator Fetterman, with top Biden campaign officials and they are meeting to hear the concerns from Senate Democrats, like we've heard from others. Obviously, Senator Welch coming out directly now, and saying this, but there have been other concerns raised.

Let me play a few of them for you.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. MICHAEL BENNET (D-CO): Donald Trump is on track I think to win this election, and maybe win it by a landslide and take with him the Senate and the House.

MANU RAJU, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: How concerned are you about his chances in November?

SEN. DICK DURBIN (D-IL): I'm very concerned. It's going to be a close race.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BURNETT: Now, Senator Fetterman, you have minced no words. You have said that Democrats and I'm using your words are following a B.S. narrative about the debate.

So, Senator, can you tell us and everyone watching because you do see Biden -- you know, personally, you see him -- what do you see in him that makes you so sure of your support?

FETTERMAN: Well, he's the only person to ever beat Trump's ass in an election, and we can't forget what happened in 2020 then, and he's been an amazing president and he deserves our support through all that. Of course, we all agree that it wasn't a great debate.

Now, in debates, we can also can't forget, too, debates really don't mean much actually in terms of who actually wins, whether that -- it's with Obama, whether that Clinton actually mop the floor of Trump in debates. But, of course, we know what happened, or Kerry, when he's running against Bush.

So I really want to remind everybody in, you know, me if, if debates were a definitive, I wouldn't be standing in the rotunda as United States senator to stand for Joe Biden on that.

So I understand what a rough debate can seem, but I believe that Joe Biden is going to win, but it's going to be very close. There's never going to be a land slide at all, regardless, debate or not, because it's going to be very close.

I've been saying that same thing since 2016, 2020, and, of course, during this cycle.

BURNETT: So what do you think it is that is making your colleagues now, you know, more and more of them start to speak out publicly and turn against the president? I mean, obviously, he did go through a primary process. He did win. He has all the delegates.

He is your -- your nominee in terms of having had the delegates and they all -- that more and more of them we're hearing, you know, they want to -- they want to push him aside.

I mean, what do you think is going on here? I mean, even psychologically, Senator?

FETTERMAN: Again, if they ever tried to push him out, that -- that's absolutely a disgrace. That'll be a disgrace to discard and push out an amazing president.

[19:25:02]

And if it wasn't for Joe Biden, Trump would be in the White House right now and he'd be running for his third term.

You know, if you really want to turn your back on the president like this, you know, if you're ever in a foxhole, that's never made better if you start to panic our betray that in this.

And I'm proud to stand with Joe Biden and I'm showing up tomorrow with brass knuckles. BURNETT: So let me ask you about Nancy Pelosi when you talk about showing up with brass knuckles. The former House Speaker, of course, gave that interview on "Morning Joe" with Joe and Mika, and she made it clear that Joe Biden had a decision to make, even though Joe Biden has said that he's running, the decision is already made.

Here's what she said.

FETTERMAN: Well, Joe Biden's already made that decision.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PELOSI: It's up to the president to decide if he is going to run. We're all encouraging him to make that decision because time is running short.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BURNETT: So you started to speak there, but she's saying that there's a decision to be made, but he's already said he made the decision. What do you say to the former speaker?

FETTERMAN: I would say is that, you know, as far as I know, she's never run for any office outside of the House and she's never run for the president, and she certainly never won that as well.

And, you know, he has already made his decision. Joe Biden has made that decision. He is staying in this race and he's going to take this through to the convention and to November, and I'm going to back him on that.

And if I have any advice for Joe Biden and that is, you know, stay in if that's what you believe. And I -- I have his back 100 percent.

BURNETT: All right. Well, Senator John Fetterman, we all appreciate your time, thank you very much, sir.

And also tonight, a call to action. Vice President Kamala Harris rallying crucial supporters, Black women, to get out the vote.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KAMALA HARRIS, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Our nation is counting on the leaders in this room to guide us forward, because we know when we organize, mountains move. When we mobilize, nations change. When we vote, we make history.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BURNETT: All eyes on the vice president and she has now become Trump's favorite target.

Eva McKend is OUTFRONT.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

EVA MCKEND, CNN NATIONAL POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Vice President Kamala Harris selling the Biden-Harris ticket.

HARRIS: You helped elect Joe Biden president of the United States --

(CHEERS)

And me as the first woman elected vice president.

MCKEND: -- even in the midst of growing Democratic calls for President Biden to step aside.

HARRIS: While we have come, it might be a long way, we have more work to do.

MCKEND: Harris now getting a fresh look as the potential top of the Democratic ticket while speaking to her sorority sisters at the Alpha Kappa Alpha convention, AKA, the oldest Black sorority in the country.

HARRIS: I do believe this is the most existential, consequential and important election of our lifetimes. Sorors, this is a serious matter.

MCKEND: Many voters here in support of keeping the status quo.

DENNISA THOMAS, AKA SORORITY MEMBER & MISSOURI VOTER: Joe Biden and Kamala Harris have a plan for 2024 and on. So I just want them to enact that plan and she's supportive of him staying on the ticket and I trust her judgment. So if he needs -- if he needs to stay, he needs to stay.

MCKEND: But if there was a change, they say Harris shouldn't be discounted to lead the party.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She earned that position. He chose her for a reason and I support that reason 100 percent.

CHINELLA WEBB, AKA SORORITY MEMBER & ALABAMA VOTER: I feel like she's the perfect candidate to do whatever needs to be done if that happens.

MCKEND: It's the latest stop on the campaign trail for the vice president --

(CROWD CHANTING: "FOUR MORE YEARS!")

HARRIS: And a lot of work to do.

MCKEND: -- following a visit to Las Vegas, where she fiercely defended her running mate.

HARRIS: The past few days have been a reminder that running for president of the United States is never easy. But the one thing we know about our president, Joe Biden, is that he is a fighter.

MCKEND: Harris, too, has taken a leading role in prosecuting the case against Donald Trump.

HARRIS: The United States Supreme Court essentially told this individual who has been convicted of 34 felonies that he will be immune from essentially the activity he has told us he is prepared to engage in if he gets back into the White House.

And as Harris profile rises, former President Trump also upping his attacks.

[19:30:01]

DONALD TRUMP, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT & 2024 PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: If Joe had picked someone even halfway competent, they would have bounced him from office years ago, but they can't because she's got to be their second choice. He has no choice and no chance.

MCKEND: Amid divisions within the party about the path forward, Democratic voters say another Biden presidency is better than the alternative.

GINGER MCKNIGHT-CHAVERS, AKA SORORITY MEMBER & NEW YORK VOTER: It really could be -- it could be a cardboard cutout. I don't care who really who it is, as long as they can beat Trump.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MCKEND (on camera): Harris also used her remarks to denounce Project 2025. That is a conservative policy vision to radically reshape the federal government. Parts of it could be enacted in a future Trump administration. Notably the AKAs in unison calling out that plan with Harris by name, Project 2025. Meanwhile, Harris will continue her tour of the country in making her case to voters in Greensboro, North Carolina -- Erin.

BURNETT: All right. Eva, thank you very much.

And next, we have breaking news, we are now learning some of the same people who tried to overturn the election are now going to be playing a pivotal role at the RNC convention. We'll share these breaking details with you.

Plus, Rudy Giuliani actually erupting in court, yelling after being threatened with jail today. Former New York City mayor was so out of control, his mic had to be muted during his bankruptcy hearing, and we've got new details from inside that courtroom right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:35:25]

BURNETT: Breaking news, fake electors will make Trump's nomination official. CNN exclusively learning tonight the names of fake electors and election deniers from seven states who will be acting as delegates, and national committee members at the 2024 Republican convention next week. Some of the fake electors now facing criminal prosecution over their roles in 2020 -- I mean, to think of that criminal prosecution, you can see some of them there, many of them do come from battleground states.

So I want to go straight to Zach Cohen, his reporting breaking this story tonight. I mean, Zach, just to -- the bottom line here, you've got people from

seven states who were involved in trying to overturn the last election. Now have active roles in the official process to nominate Trump this time. Wow, I mean, what more can you tell us?

ZACHARY COHEN, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY & JUSTICE REPORTER: Yes, Erin, that's exactly right. We're talking about key swing states that are going to be pivotal again here in 2024, places like Arizona, places like Georgia, Michigan, Nevada, Pennsylvania, the delegations from these seven states that the Republican Party in those states are going to send the convention in Milwaukee. They're made up of a lot of election deniers, several fake electors and others who tried to help Trump overturn the 2020 election results.

They're now going to go to the convention and officially helping anoint Donald Trump as the Republican nominee for president in 2024. And I want to take a look at some of these specific individuals because it really is a who's who in some cases of fake electors. They include people like Jake Hoffman a state senator from Arizona. He was fake elector there and it was indicted for his alleged role in a conspiracy to overturn the 2020 election results, has pleaded not guilty in that case.

You have people like Amy Kramer who will represent Georgia as part of that delegation. She's not been criminally charged for her role in efforts overturn the election, but she did help organize that rally at the White House ellipse that immediately preceded the January 6 riot.

And Michigan, that's going to be represented by people like Meshawn Maddock. Meshawn Maddock served as a fake elector. She's been indicted on state charges and pled not guilty in Michigan there.

And also Matthew DePerno from Michigan, he was separately indicted for in a conspiracy alleged to try to seize voting machines in that state. So really several people currently facing criminal charges that are going to appear on the convention floor and submit their states vote for Donald Trump for president.

BURNETT: All right. Zach Cohen, thank you very much.

And also tonight, there was that chaos in court that I mentioned. That's the former New York City Mayor Rudy Giuliani, literally yelling after being threatened with jail while facing the prospect of losing everything he owns. Of course, the court -- a court verdict against him, you know, dwarfed what he owns. A lawyer for his creditors saying she could consider seeking prison time for his alleged, quote, bankruptcy crimes.

Now, Giuliani was actually on a Zoom line and on Zoom, he starts shouting so loudly that the judge asks Giuliani's microphone to be muted.

So I want to go straight to Katelyn Polantz. She was in that courtroom day and she's live tonight again for us outside Giuliani's New York City apartment, which Katelyn, as you've reported, could be worth $6 million. So I -- obviously very relevant in this whole conversation. But you were inside that courtroom today with the chaos and you're

watching the Zoom, Giuliani yelling and I mean, tell us what happened.

KATELYN POLANTZ, CNN SENIOR CRIME AND JUSTICE REPORTER: Well, Erin, the judge, laid out the end game. On Friday, this judge is going to make a decision and there are two options here for Rudy Giuliani and what happens to his wealth.

One option, a trustee could be taking total control over everything that Giuliani has, everything that's incoming, all of the things that he has, what he's able to buy and pay for, or he could be thrown out of bankruptcy court and essentially thrown to the mercy of his creditors, specifically, Ruby Freeman and Shaye Moss, those two Georgia election workers whom he owes $148 million.

They are quite unhappy, right now, and that was what we saw a lot of in the courtroom today. Their attorney speaking to the judge about how Giuliani has just not been forthcoming. They cant chase after this money in any reasonable way, and that's what prompted these outbursts from Rudy Giuliani in the courtroom.

He had called in ten minutes late over his cell phone and you could hear his voice, that unmistakable voice. This is Rudolph Giuliani, and then at times saying they're making defamatory remarks and get my lawyers on the phone or get them on his -- on the phone, his lawyer then stepping out of the courtroom to talk to him, calm him down, perhaps.

But the bottom line here, Erin, is that there are real consequences coming for Rudy Giuliani because of the work he did for Donald Trump after the 2020 election. It's coming in bankruptcy court on Friday and the attorney for Ruby Freeman and Shaye Moss told me just after the hearing that they are ready to take his properties, including this apartment behind me -- Erin.

[19:40:05]

BURNETT: All right. Katelyn, thank you very much.

Now, let's go to Ryan Goodman, our legal analyst. Of course, he's with "Just Security".

And, Ryan, so, starting with Giuliani -- I mean, just to take a step back here, obviously, the judgments against him dwarf his assets. And yet he has been trying to make money any way he can. We have seen a sorted side of the former mayor.

Let me just show everybody.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RUDY GIULIANI, FORMER TRUMP ATTORNEY: I'm thrilled to introduce you to something I'm incredibly proud of. My own brand of organic specialty coffee, Rudy Coffee.

I can do a happy birthday greeting. I'm a little teapot short and stout. It's my handle. Here's my spout.

I've been sleeping on my pillows for some time. I love them, yet simply the very best pills ever made.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BURNETT: I mean, Ryan, you know, you can sort of laugh at that. There's, obviously, it's sad too, but in the context of what's going on in this bankruptcy courtroom, what does all this mean for Rudy Giuliani?

RYAN GOODMAN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: So it means a lot of trouble for Rudy Giuliani. It looks like the end of the road, probably at the bankruptcy court. He is his own lawyers are actually saying they wanted to take the case out of bankruptcy court. And so does Ms. Moss and Ms. Freeman.

So it looks like on Friday, that will probably be the judges ruling. And then I assume immediately Ms. Moss and Ms. Freeman will go to courts in New York, Florida, and D.C. to try to get liens immediately on his properties which are worth apparently about $11 million in Florida home and then New York home.

BURNETT: So I mean, it's amazing to think about where we are on that, and where Rudy Giuliani used to be. For some reason, it's just hard to get your arms around that no matter how many times we hear about this.

GOODMAN: Yeah.

BURNETT: I also want to ask you write about the exclusive reporting Zach Cohen was sharing and that is about the fake electors from at least seven states who are now named serving as delegates at the RNC to nominate Trump this time around.

And what I wanted to ask you about, Ryan, is this, we know many of them are currently facing criminal charges and are actually as part of that prohibited in some cases, are referring -- to refrain from participating in any way in the execution or transmission of electoral votes in 2024?

So, how are they there still participating in the process?

GOODMAN: It's really an extraordinary moment. The charges against them range and one of them, for example, Mr. DePerno, in Michigan includes multiple charges by a special prosecutor for having seized voting machines, believe it or not, in 2021, to try to prove up their big lie claims. It's just extraordinary.

In Wisconsin, what you mentioned, there was a major civil law settlement in which the false electors, all ten of them, agreed that they would never be involved in being official electors for Donald Trump or for anybody actually in 2024. And the agreement also says the electoral defendants agree to refrain from participating in any way in the execution or transmission of electoral votes in 2024. Now, being delegates, the Republican National Convention is different,

so it's in some sense a loophole. But it shows you the attempt by the legal system to keep them out of the electoral process since these are essentially democracy crimes.

BURNETT: Yeah, it's its incredible to think about what we are -- what we are witnessing.

Ryan, thank you so much.

GOODMAN: Yeah.

BURNETT: And next, the breaking news, live pictures of the White House right now, President Biden is hosting a dinner as I speak with NATO allies, as you can see that there happening.

And summer camp in North Korea. Wait until you hear this. We've got a student actually speaking to CNN about what he had to endure.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It wasn't like -- like straightforward propaganda. It was brainwashing you like in different ways.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:48:00]

BURNETT: We're looking at live pictures at the White House right now, as I speak, this is where NATO leaders are attending a dinner hosted by the president and first lady, so you can see, obviously, all the NATO leaders lined up there, President Biden in the center. As you hear the pomp and circumstance of the band, just to let you know in terms of who's arriving, the Ukrainian president, Volodymyr Zelenskyy is there just arriving Ukraine, of course, has been front and center topic throughout this, you see him standing there with the first lady of Ukraine.

As I mentioned, President Biden and the first lady are on the ground floor there, as you can see, in the center, the president of the United States. It comes as a CNN exclusive investigation tonight reveals that Russia is carrying out acts of sabotage in NATO countries and many of them caught on tape as you are about to see OUTFRONT here.

Nick Paton Walsh is OUTFRONT.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

NICK PATON WALSH, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): This is the moment first broadcast here, a vast saboteur operation in Poland gave itself away, caught on camera is Maxim, a 24- year-old Ukrainian living here, recruited online by Russian agents who first just asked him to daub anti-war graffiti, filmed buying a lot of energy drinks, a move that led Polish agents to arrest him and 15 others because he dropped a receipt from here at a crime scene.

His Russian handler Andrzej had begun asking for much more positioning cameras, some here overlooking these tracks to Ukraine. Others where Poland trained Ukrainian troops and for Maxim to commit arson. In all, it got him six years in jail.

Amazing how the Russians just recruiting people straight off Telegram, who find themselves here in maximum security.

He gave our producer a rare interview inside. We could not record. So an actor is voicing his words.

MAXIM (through voice actor): It was easy money. I needed money badly.

[19:50:02]

I didn't think any of it could cause any harm. It seemed so insignificant.

When Andrzej told me to install cameras where Poles were training Ukrainian soldiers, that's when I knew it could be serious. It made me feel uneasy. That was when I decided I'd quit. But I never got a chance. I got arrested the next day.

WALSH: U.S. bases in Europe are on the highest alert for a decade. The main reason: the threat of Russian sabotage, persistent, real, growing across Europe along the supply lines to the Ukrainian border here.

Or supply hubs like these never really been more vital for Ukraine trying to hold the frontline, but a senior NATO official has told me of a six to nine months efforts by Russia to sabotage NATO weapons supplies into Ukraine, fair bit of it, going right down these tracks. Now they described it as something that is against at times the point of production against those making the decisions, against the storage of weapons, or even their actual delivery, saying the operation has been bold.

But it gets fiercer here right next to Russia in Estonia, Russia's appetite to disrupt led them at this tense border crossing one May night to sneak out in these thermal camera images and remove the buoys marking where Estonia ends and Russia begins, literally removing the border.

Tank traps and razor wires speak of how bad it's got. Estonian GPS signals have been jammed in the skies above. Russians film us filming them.

Your job is also to filter out any of the Russian agents who might be being used to come and do hybrid attacks, right?

EERIK PURGEL, HEAD OF ESTONIAN BORDER GUARD BUREAU, EAST PREFECTURE: All the time, 24/7, and trying to filter those people out. I think the Russians now are trying to see how we will react to different things.

WALSH: Security officials say Russia is using amateurs here, too. Ten people arrested in February after an attack on the Estonian interior minister's car, fears the Ukraine war may in the future make Russians more aggressive still.

HARRYS PUUSEPP, ESTONIAN INTERNAL SECURITY SERVICE: We have seen moving towards physical attacks. There are people who take part in the war against Ukraine. They have more experience. Their mindset is more violent. They are perhaps not so patient anymore.

WALSH: A shadowy standoff where the unthinkable in a matter of months becomes reality.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WALSH (on camera): Erin, this is really the huge risk of these sabotage, these hybrid operations that they're being farmed out to sort of freelance local criminals it seems by the Kremlin. It's unclear if these people know exactly how far they're supposed to go. There's a huge risk of casualties and it's also unclear what level of control Vladimir Putin himself has over every single move, each one of which potentially crosses the line into provoking NATO into a more full fledged response -- Erin.

BURNETT: Thank you so much, Nick, and such crucial reporting for all.

And next summer camp in North Korea, one student telling CNN about the brainwashing that he went through. Wait until you see this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:57:23]

BURNETT: Tonight, summer camp in North Korea. CNN is speaking with a Russian student who spent weeks in North Korea on summer break, you have to hear for yourself what he heard and saw there. And Will Ripley tonight has this report you'll see first OUTFRONT.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

WILL RIPLEY, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The Russian and North Korean leaders budding alliance at full speed for the world to see, Vladimir Putin and Kim Jong-un toasting a stronger partnership than ever before, intent on taking down the U.S.

YURI FROLOV, RUSSIAN GRADUATE STUDENT IN THE U.S.: My president is a murderer and dictator, so there is no surprise.

RIPLEY: Yuri Frolov is a Russian graduate students studying in the U.S. He was in high school in Russia in 2015 and 2016 when his parents sent him on to summer trips to North Korea.

Russia, one of the only nations Pyongyang still allows in on government controlled sites seeing trips.

FROLOV: We landed in Pyongyang and we spent two days in the capital. They showed us some attractions. They showed us like their museum, they showed us like dolphins.

RIPLEY: Frolov says he's not surprised to see rising Russian tourism in Kim's heavily sanctioned secret state.

FROLOV: Russian tourists is one of the pipelines they can use to get this currency in the country because once I was there, it was one of their purpose is just to use the people like meal cost, just to get the most the money they wanted.

RIPLEY: He visited the same souvenir shops I did on my 19 reporting trips to North Korea.

You don't need to read Korean to know what this means here. The U.S. Capitol there, symbolism says it all.

Shops overflowing with anti-U.S. propaganda.

FROLOV: It wasn't like -- like straightforward propaganda. It was brainwashing. You through different ways.

RIPLEY: Frolov spent two weeks at this international children's camp on North Koreas east coast, summer fun mixed with daily chores like cleaning giant statues of the late leaders.

FROLOV: Which was also very strange. It was like 6:00 in the morning and we're just called to clean some dust out from this monuments.

RIPLEY: After morning chores, mandatory music lessons.

FROLOV: Sometimes, the people who are for just to sing propaganda songs about like the great leaders of North Korea, Kim Il-sung and Kim Jong-Il and Kim Jong-un, and basically we were forced to speak the songs as well. They were like Koreans, but they were translated into Russian.

RIPLEY: He says even the video games had an anti-American theme.

FROLOV: They were like driving tanks, like destroying the White House in the U.S.

RIPLEY: It reminds me of this exchange with two North Korean campers playing that same video.

Who do you want to fight?

UNIDENTIFIED BOY (through translator): Fight the sworn enemy, America.

RIPLEY: What if I told you I'm an American? You want to shoot me, too?

UNIDENTIFIED BOY (through translator): Yes.

RIPLEY: A lesson from Kim and Putin to the next generation.

Will Ripley, CNN, Taipei.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BURNETT: Well, thanks, Will. I mean, it is just fascinating to see that student and his own words. And thanks so much to all of you for joining us.

"AC360" starts now.