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Erin Burnett Outfront
Special Counsel Files New Indictment Against Donald Trump; Harris And Walz Sit Down For First Interview With CNN; Mystery Deepens Over "Russian Zuckerberg's" Arrest. Aired 7-8p ET
Aired August 27, 2024 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[19:00:43]
ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST: OUTFRONT next:
Breaking news tonight, a new indictment for Donald Trump. Special counsel Jack Smith with a brand new filing just coming out tonight before a major deadline, changing the legal scene tonight. Trump White House attorney Ty Cobb is OUTFRONT.
And more breaking news this hour, Harris and Walz announced their first joint interview here on CNN. So what's going to happen?
Plus, did RFK, Jr. commit a felony? Kennedy's daughter says he once beheaded a whale driving it from Massachusetts to New York on the roof of a minivan. Environmentalists are saying he broke the law, a bizarre tale.
Let's go OUTFRONT.
Good evening. I'm Erin Burnett.
OUTFRONT tonight: the breaking news, a new indictment for Donald J. Trump. In a total surprise to Trump, apparently, he was given absolutely no warning, special counsel Jack Smith filed this. This is the new indictment and now all in its 36 pages. It indicts Trump for January 6.
So you might when you hear me say that be a surprise as Trump, thinking, didn't the Supreme Court say that Trump had immunity and shoot this entire case down? Went into the garbage?
Well, yes, except in this indictment, Smith says its going to hold up to the Supreme Court's immunity ruling. It is not as long. Okay. Like I mentioned, 36 pages, the original indictment that Smith had filed that fell to the immunity decision from the Supreme Court was 45 pages. But 36 pages is still a lot.
And in this, Smith stands by the four original crucial counts that Trump faced, which include conspiracy to defraud the United States.
So this is crucial to emphasize those four core charges are still there, just to make the significance clear, we looked it up in the maximum prison sentence of those four counts combined, the maximum, is 55 years in prison. So, that makes it clear what Smith says will hold under the Supreme Court's immunity decision, 55 years.
So to bolster his claim that this revised indictment holds and is consistent with that Supreme Court ruling granting broad immunity to president, Smith added new sections to try to show that Trumps acts on January 6 were unofficial. Unofficial is the crucial word that the Supreme Court used to say -- to say that unofficial acts of a sitting president can be prosecuted.
So, Smith went back, looked at it and said, all right, I'm going to show you how these counts that could send someone to prison for 55 years were an official. In one new section he does that by writing, quote, throughout the conspiracies, although the defendants sometimes used his Twitter account to communicate with the public as president about official actions and policies. He also regularly used it for personal purposes, including to spread knowingly false claims of election fraud, exhort his supporters to travel to Washington, D.C. on January 6, pressure the vice president and misuse his ceremonial role in the certification proceeding and leverage the events at the Capitol on January 6 to unlawfully retain power.
And then at another point, Smith writes, the defendant continued his lies through the day of the certification proceeding on January 6. That morning, the defendant gave a campaign speech at a privately funded, privately organized political rally on the ellipse in Washington, D.C.
So you hear those words, personal purposes, privately funded, privately organized, unofficial acts.
Evan Perez is OUTFRONT in Washington.
And, Evan, the special counsel making these changes emphasizing this unofficial nature, but keeping those four charges that carry such a serious -- serious level of penalty if convicted, and surprise Trump with this filing today.
EVAN PEREZ, CNN SENIOR JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Erin.
And look, I mean, what one of the things that the special counsel has been doing these last few weeks has been going through line by line. They original 45-page indictment and looking through the evidence, they had to try to see what it could support these four counts and they arrived at the same thing, what they did, a lot of this is editing, as you pointed out in this new indictment, which by the way, they presented to a grand jury, a brand new grand jury, one that had not heard the previous -- the previous evidence. They made sure they went to a new grand jury to be able to say that this is not tainted by previous evidence.
But what one of the things that they do here is that they've removed all references to the Justice Department and Justice Department official, Jeffrey Clark.
[19:05:05]
He is -- you remember -- the former official who Donald Trump at one point tried to appoint U.S. attorney general in order to help bolster his claims of vote fraud. That has gone.
Also gone is some of this conversations with Mark Meadows, again, someone who is very close to the former president. He's a close aide and under the terms of the Supreme Court ruling, that is not evidence that they could use in court.
So a lot of that stuff is now gone. Now, one of the big surprises in here, it will see a lot of evidence about Mike Pence and one of the things that you see in the editing of this new indictment is a references to him as Senate president, his ceremonial role to certify the vote on January 6.
And that you see is helped to bolster a couple of these counts here which are related to the former president's role in trying to impede an official proceeding. So what the first thing now that happens after this, Erin, is next week a test before judge Tanya Chutkan, she's going to hold a hearing and well see whether any of this new editing of this new indictment passes a test with her -- Erin.
BURNETT: All right. And that is obviously going to be crucial. Evan, thank you.
I want to go to Phil Mattingly now because you've covered Trump so extensively. You know, there were many who thought this might go away forever, or in large part. But this is a surprise filing and the foreign key charges are still there, that that would carry a combined 55 years in maximum prison time if someone were to be convicted of them.
So this surprises Trump today. What are you learning about how he find out -- how he found out and what he's doing right now?
PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN CHIEF DOMESTIC CORRESPONDENT: Yeah. Erin, surprised. The legal team also surprised -- the senior political team around the former president. And what's interesting to your point, there kind of been a sense and being on the campaign trail with him last week, especially that this was kind of in the rearview, was not a focal point as it had been for so many months leading up to the general election, of any of his campaign speeches, he would mention it in passing, sometimes particularly the Florida case that had been dismissed, Jack Smith's classified documents case.
But it was not central despite the fact his rally-goers, his supporters are very much behind him on this issue. That seems like it's likely to change in the weeks ahead, as one Trump adviser, close associate told me we have a playbook for this. It's not necessarily a playbook they wanted to discover, but it's certainly one they found to be quite effective during the Republican primary when the former presidents steamrolled his Republican opponents and really kind of found himself at the height of power within the Republican Party, despite this being the third time he has been the nominee.
And we've already seen some of that playbook rollout. You saw the former President respond on social media at length at one point and then a stream of responses since then. We've also seen the campaign already blast out a fundraising request that says, I will, quote, never surrender very similar language to what we saw throughout his legal issues earlier in the year.
And that's important right now, particularly given his current opponent has raised more than half $1 since Joe Biden dropped out of the race. Now, I should note, the former president says that this is something that's being driven by the Vice President Kamala Harris. There's no evidence of that, just as there was never any evidence that Joe Biden was driving these cases.
But once again, it is similar language, similar framing, and a similar effort to elevate something that for most politicians would be a significant problem. The real question going forward, this will likely be a focal point of some of those campaign trail remarks in the weeks ahead, willing he make appearances at the courthouse. Will the rest of the playbook rollout as it had before? That's an open question, but certainly we've seen a lot of this before.
BURNETT: We certainly have and it would be amazing to see if we really did get some visibility on how successful the fundraising is. Because as you pointed, has been before and it was a real indicator of sort of his rise and resurgence at whether that actually is still the case.
All right. Phil, thank you very much.
And so, lets go to Ty Cobb now, former Trump White House lawyer.
Ty, you've had a chance to read through these 36 pages, obviously slimmed down just a little bit, not much, nine pages fewer than the original indictment filed last year. Keeping those four key charges and editing, emphasizing that it is in a personal private capacity under which Smith has the authority to make this indictment.
Did he do it? Does this indictment make a clean cut case that the acts were personal?
TY COBB, FORMER TRUMP WHITE HOUSE LAWYER: I think it does. I think you know, some of the editing you highlighted in your intro is spot on, emphasizing the private nature of many of these acts, as private funding of the speech at the -- at the end before the capital intrusion. Pence's ceremonial roll, the non-governmental roles of the coconspirators, which they can now say categorically, now the Jeffrey Clark is out, because he was only government official who was actually in the original indictment, he's no longer in this indictment.
So, all the -- all the coconspirators were acting in their private capacity.
[19:10:01]
I think this threads the needle. I -- if I'm -- if I'm Trump's lawyers, and I'm surprised. I'm scratching my head at that because this was -- this was the reasonable approach to take. You -- no reason to go through a series of hearings before Judge Chutkan enforced the task of editing the indictment on her, when you put forward a forceful case like this. BURNETT: And do the work for her. All right. So then what happens? She gets this case as Evan was laying out next week, what happens then and does -- I mean, I guess then does it eventually just go back to the Supreme Court? Where is this fast or slow from here?
COBB: So it'll be slow from here, not -- not merely because of the superseding indictment. Whatever the indictment was going to look like after it went through whatever hearings the Judge Chutkan is going to have, that she still will have a hearing on the adequacy of this indictment. Yeah, it does have, you know, there is an interlocutory appeal available, at least as I read this Supreme Court decision and that doesn't mean the Supreme Court has to take it if the D.C. circuit acts before in their content with whatever they do.
But this is definitely -- this has never -- this hasn't been on course to go before the election for months.
BURNETT: Right.
COBB: And this was never -- that was never going to happen. But as you point out, I mean, this is a very forceful document. Its pared down every sentence is, you know, crisply worded. It's a tight narrative. You can't read this and not understand the crimes that Trump actually committed. And you said as you pointed out, 55 years is exposure that he's not going to get 55 years, but he'll get six to nine on this.
BURNETT: So, can I ask you about that? You know, six -- okay. So you think he could get six to nine and obviously, I'd put out 55, just to -- you know, people understand the seriousness.
COBB: Sure --
BURNETT: But even six to nine -- I mean, for someone his age, it's very significant. I mean, you know him well. What do you think happens from here?
COBB: Oh, I -- you know, know he doesn't -- he won't take this seriously until the final gavel comes down and jurors come back and say guilty in he actually gets sentenced but this will be a lot of delaying tactics by his lawyers. They've already said it's the same indictment. Clearly, it's not.
They've already said that this will be dismissed, should be dismissed immediately and won't be dismissed immediately.
And I think the people that view this as a rescue or as, you know, some retreat by Smiths read this completely wrong. This is -- what happens in the ordinary course, if the Supreme Court takes an action that eliminates our approach that was previously available, you know, the prudent thing to do is to change course. The facts haven't changed.
And as you pointed out, the charges haven't changed. They are the same charges and there are easily proved. BURNETT: Right. And, of course, we should emphasize, as Evan did, it was a different grand jury, so there wasn't -- you know, there's no bias or prejudice by them and what they were looking at, new group of people looked at a new indictment and they came to a very clear conclusion that it was -- but it should go ahead.
All right. Ty, thank you.
COBB: My pleasure. Nice to be with you.
BURNETT: All right. You, too.
And, next, we have more breaking news tonight. Kamala Harris is going to sit for her first major interviews since Biden dropped out of the race, she will be interviewed right here on CNN and she won't be alone. Tim Walz will be with her.
And, new reporting coming into OUTFRONT that evangelical leaders are the ones who want Trump to keep his mouth shut about abortion, despite that being such a top issue. We're going to share with you this very important reporting.
Plus, did RFK, Jr. commit a felony when he reportedly beheaded a dead whale and drove it across state lines? This is not a headline from "The Onion".
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:18:10]
BURNETT: Breaking news, the first interview, Kamala Harris and Tim Walz will sit down on Thursday for their first joint interview, and it will happen right here on CNN with Dana Bash. It is also the first major interview for Harris since Biden dropped out. Harris and Walz trying to introduce themselves to voters, something that Harris previewed today in a new ad.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KAMALA HARRIS, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: My childhood, we were renters. My mother saved for well, over a decade to buy a home. I was a teenager when that day finally came. And I can remember so well, how excited she was.
We should be doing everything we can to make it more affordable to buy a home, not less.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Meanwhile, Harris's running mate, the Minnesota Governor Tim Walz, obviously, has been heavily leaning into his Midwestern roots, and he gave a social media interview about home maintenance today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HOST: So, what's your take? GOV. TIM WALZ (D-MN), VICE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: My take is the
most neglected part of homeownership is the gutters. It's personal for me.
HOST: A hundred percent agree.
WALZ: I've had problems with gutters before. You get your basement wet. You get ice dams. It causes a lot of problems.
HOST: How often do you like looking at gutters?
WALZ: I looked quite often surprisingly because I came to judge it.
HOST: Like you're inspecting?
WALZ: No, I try not to be judgmental on people, but when I see a well-tended gutter, it says a lot about somebody, so --
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: All right. Everyone's here with me now.
All right. Jamal, okay, you know, look, you got to laugh at that. He's right. Gutters are important.
JAMAL SIMMONS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: They're huge.
BURNETT: There are some gutter issues right now.
SIMMONS: Exactly.
BURNETT: Okay. The Kamala Harris one almost more interesting in a sense though, because obviously she's been in office for three-and-a- half years. So to say it's a completely new quantity -- and she had run for president before, very different than Tim Walz, who truly actually is an unknown quantity to most Americans outside Minnesota.
But what do they need to do in this interview? Minding that they're going to be sitting together.
SIMMONS: They've got to put themselves in context, right?
[19:20:00]
So people know Kamala Harris because, you know, she was a former prosecutor from California and vice president, but like in her own words, she didn't just fall out coconut tree, right? So, she's actually a person with a history. She's got a lot of work she's done before and now she's got some work she wants to do as president of the United States.
So, she's got a name that's very well-known but she doesn't have an identity or a story that's very well-known. And I think that's part of what this is about. And then with Tim Walz, you're turning him, you know, this is -- he's an every man. So you're getting the two of them together to talk about real middle-class issues, big pain points for people, homeownership and gutters.
BURNETT: And, so, Erick, I'm curious what you make of that? I mean, the gutters thing that you can't not laugh at it. You can't not say there's no point.
ERICK ERICKSON, HOST, THE ERICK ERICKSON SHOW: He's right.
BURNETT: Yet this whole thing, and I wondered why so many Republicans were leaning well heavily on it. Why doesn't she do an interview? Because it was obvious she would do an interview and now, she's doing an interview. And she's going to do more interviews.
So does this take away what had become a really loud and key talking point for the GOP of, you know, where is her interview strategy?
ERICKSON: Yeah, it does now, and good for CNN for getting it. And I assume -- I mean, it's Dana Bash is going to be asking the questions.
BURNETT: It's Dana doing it, yeah.
ERICKSON: So, it's going to be heavy on policy and substance. You know, when you look at just the things that, for example, Kamala Harris told you in here, open forum in 2020 that she wanted to use the government to curb people's red meat, get rid of fracking and EV mandates, which she's walked back there, her staff walked back today, and a health care, getting rid of insurance with Jake Tapper or with Don Lemon at the time that she thought that people on in jail should be able to vote.
These are questions that I think her staff has said she's walked back, but she hasn't said. So, it's going to be interesting to see how far she's willing to walk back.
BURNETT: Right. Some of those things that hit the pocket popular culture, you mentioned some of them, but I remember the -- I remember the straws, the plastic straws.
Alyssa, you know, J.D. Vance today was in Michigan, which is obviously must win state, he was talking when we talked about this biography issue and what Walz and Harris are going to try to do. He also has been trying to make this about biography. So he talked about his mother today and her struggles with addiction. Here's J.D. Vance.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. J.D. VANCE (R-OH), VICE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I thought I would lose my mom when I was a kid and I prayed every single day that she would somehow find her way to a second chance, know that a lot of Americans prayed for that second chance and thank God, we got it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Alyssa, how much of this race comes down to biography versus policy? I mean, just to be very blunt about it.
ALYSSA FARAH GRIFFIN, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Listen, I think that the candidates have to make the American public think that they understand their struggles and the Walz-Harris ticket is trying to kind of flip the tackle, you know, going after the elites narrative that Trump kind of dominated by saying, we weren't elites. We both worked at McDonald's. We didn't own homes until later in life.
Whereas the Trump-Vance ticket has kind of had to -- they've -- they've struggled to find their footing and defining themselves. This was one of the better, more humanizing moment I think for J.D. Vance, somebody who's struggled in his favorabilities is actually declined since he's been V.P.
But this is a man with an incredible life story. I think one of the reasons he was picked was the narrative he has from "Hillbilly Elegy" and some of his upbringing, the more he can talk about things like addiction which impacts one in three Americans, the more I think people would say this might be an okay guy. More of that, less bashing childless cat, ladies.
BURNETT: Well, that's for sure.
All right. So, Erick, amidst all of this, you know, the kind of latest scrum in the water or chum in the water to use the word was RFK, Jr.'s endorsement, right? And Trump is going all in Erick on his embrace of RFK, Jr., despite RFK, Jr.'s long history of being a Democrat, which I guess Trumps shares, right?
RFK known conspiracy theorists on things like vaccines, but sources have confirmed, Erick, to us that Kennedy is going to be part of Trumps transition team if he wins and this is just some of what we have heard from Trump and Vance about Kennedy since his endorsement of Trump.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REPORTER: Are you considering appointing RFK Jr. as your health secretary if you're reelected?
DONALD TRUMP, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT & 2024 PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: So, we have a job for that, but he knows a lot about the subject, and he's really been well-received by the party, I would tell you. He's a great guy, very well received.
VANCE: I hope RFK has a role because he's a smart guy because I think he's smart guy. I think he's fundamentally a good guy and I'm glad to have him on the team.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Hope he has a role, glad to have him on the team. Do you share those views, Erick?
ERICKSON: Listen, it might bring them 12 or 13 votes. Trump is probably more likely to lose pro-lifers for saying women's reproductive rights will do great in his administration than the vote's he's going to gain from RFK. I just, you know, as an actual conservative before I'm a Republican, I
find the RFK stuff weird. He's progressive on guns, he's progressive on abortion, he's progressive on health care. The only thing he shares an overlap with Trump team is this deep distrust of the establishment elite in Washington and New York, and the questioning on COVID and things like that.
But for him to get embed with the guy who actually did a great thing on Operation Warp Speed, it's -- I don't know.
[19:25:01]
As a conservative, I'm baffled, and I would just say there are probably far fewer people willing to come to Trump than be alienated by Robert Kennedy.
BURNETT: Well, that is fascinating because if you're right about, that is a huge problem.
And, Jamal, I'm sure you hope that Erick's analysis there is correct.
Kennedy, though, you know, we know Andrew Kaczynski gone through and found the past of what Kennedy really thinks about Trump, and it's pretty nasty -- worst president, all sorts of things bully, you name it.
But now, he's releasing a new ad using words of his father over images of Trump. Here's a clip.
(BEGIN VDIEO CLIP)
ROBERT F. KENNEDY, FORMER ATTORNEY GENERAL: We can perhaps remember if only for a time that those who live with us are our brothers and surely we can begin to work a little harder to bind up the wounds among us, and to become in our hearts brothers and countrymen once again.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Actually, in that sense, trying to emphasize that RFK is crossing party lines out of patriotism. Does that resonate?
SIMMONS: Yeah.
BURNETT: Do you think that will resonate with some?
SIMMONS: I don't. And, you know, I'm having physical reactions to it because RFK is somebody that may give us Democrats look up to. He's, you know, one of the icons of the Democratic Party, and he talks about someone who lives among us.
Donald Trump doesn't live among us. He lives in the penthouse, high above Fifth Avenue in New York. He lives in club with Mar-a-Lago. And he's not binding up our wounds.
I mean, if that's what you're in this for, Donald Trump is somebody who tends to put salt in the wounds. And so it just doesn't make any sense. It just seems to me like there are a lot of kooky ideas that are all bound now in the same corner of the Internet, in the same corner of our politics. And it's Kennedy and Trump working together.
BURNETT: Paul Begala was saying, Alyssa, that Trump would get rid of J.D. Vance, and now he said and put J -- and put RFK. I'm sorry, RFK Jr. on the ticket.
Can I just ask you, Alyssa, knowing Trump as you do, and knowing that among some of his supporters, he certainly proceeds J.D. Vance to actually be a success, although not among the broader public maybe at this point. Do you think he would ever dumped J.D. Vance?
GRIFFIN: Listen, I think that if Kamala Harris gets the post- convention bump, we think if she's successful in the debate and she's ahead outside of the margin of error and enough swing-states, I wouldn't rule anything out.
Donald Trump is, is desperate to win this in some ways, his freedom is on he line in light of this new court filing related to January 6. So I wouldn't rule it out. Listen, he loves RFK Jr. because he's a Kennedy. He loves the cache of a Kennedy name. I think he would love the idea of a Trump-Kennedy ticket.
But the reality of this to Erick's point, Erick comes from the conservative wing of the GOP. I come from the centrist wing of the Republican Party and every day, Donald Trump is giving people like me more and more permission to not vote for Republicans by surrounding himself by people like RFK, Jr., Tulsi Gabbard, even a J.D. Vance, who the fundamentals we just don't agree on, whether it's support for Ukraine, not having, you know, tariffs on imports, wanting to pass border security deals.
So I think he's really done doubling down to what is a minority within a minority of the GOP?
BURNETT: Well, interesting, I will say all three of you agree on RFK Jr. and I will just say --
ERICKSON: He's not going to ditch J.D. Vance. J.D. Vance stays.
BURNETT: And J.D. Vance -- and I'm not surprised, Erick, you have a very different -- you and Alyssa would a very dim view on that, but I will say, there we go on that rare note of agreement for very political perspectives.
Thanks so much to all. It's great to see you.
An extra reality check, former President Obama warning Democrats to not get too comfortable about Harris having this in the bag. And we have some reporting on exactly why.
And calls for RFK Jr. to face charges after he used a chainsaw to cut off the head of a dud -- dead whale. I'm like, am I the "National Enquirer" here? And then stuck it on the roof of his minivan. Why his daughter called it just normal day-to-day stuff. And we're not making it up.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:33:20]
BURNETT: Tonight, reality check. Former President Obama telling exuberant Democrats that the hard work is just beginning. He showered Kamala Harris -- Kamala Harris in a fundraiser on Martha's Vineyard with praise, saying that her convention speech, quote, was outstanding and the theme with joy. And so people were feeling great. And I want everybody to feel great, but I also want everybody to get a little bit of a reality check.
And this comes as Harris is headed to Georgia for her very first campaign stops since the DNC.
Nick Valencia is in Georgia with tonight "Voters OUTFRONT".
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
VERONICA KING, GEORGIA DEMOCRATIC VOTER: You could see some on the stage were doing a little bit more --
NICK VALENCIA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Demure?
KING: Yes.
VALENCIA (voice-over): For Veronica King, the DNC was everything.
KING: I'm texting, I'm like, oh, my gosh, like Lil Jon is coming down.
VALENCIA: Sitting under it canopy of trees in Georgia's bellwether of Cobb County, King says she's most excited to see the influence the DNC had on her 19-year-old son. In November, he'll vote for the first time.
And that makes you excited to see your young son excited.
KING: Yes, yes. And to see people his age want to actually vote and be engaged.
BROOKLYN WATSON, UNDECIDED GEORGIA VOTER: I don't -- I'm not necessarily thinking that I supposed to be trendy.
VALENCIA: But not every voter here shares that enthusiasm. Twenty- two-year-old Brooklyn Watson voted for Biden in 2020. And although she is leaning Democrat this time around, she says she's still undecided.
WATSON: I don't think I'm looking necessarily for fun again, just something that is successfully going to help though the economy and the community.
VALENCIA: The enthusiasm from the DNC didn't affect your decision and make you sort of grounded or solidify your vote for Harris?
WATSON: No, not necessarily solidified, but yes, to learn more still about her.
[19:35:03]
VALENCIA: Looking at his checking account the last four years is enough for Charles Seamster to have already made up his mind. This November, the Republican said he'll be voting for a better economy, something he thinks Harris cannot deliver.
CHARLES SEAMSTER, REPUBLICAN GEORGIA VOTER: The issues that she talks about now, that's she's not proven. She's not proven. So, you know, I don't know if she's trusted.
VALENCIA: Do you think Trump is proven?
SEAMSTER: The economy was definitely proven when he was in office.
KATHY SLOUGH, MOIDERATE DEMOCRATIC GEORGIA VOTER: Her background is phenomenal coming in as a prosecutor, and I think she is for everyone, and in particular the middle-class, and we need diversity.
VALENCIA: Kathy Slough is the type of Georgia voter that both Harris and Trump are trying to win over. A moderate Democrat, Slough's voted for Republicans in the past, but not this time. She loved the messaging in tone from the vice president at the DNC.
SLOUGH: As a human being and as an individual I think she's looking out for all of us no matter what background.
VALENCIA: For the self-described centrist, Mike Wilkinson, the thought of Trump getting a second term is scary. It's also deeply personal.
MIKE WILKINSON, MODERATE DEMOCRATIC GEORGIA VOTER: And when the time came for me and my partner at the time to decide about an abortion or not, we chose not to have an abortion, but that was hers and my choice. And it shouldn't be -- there shouldn't be anybody in that room besides the patient and the doctor.
VALENCIA: 2020 was decided by less than 12,000 votes. Now that Harris has voters attention here in the Peach State, can she count on getting their votes, too?
(END VIDEOTAPE)
VALENCIA (on camera): The two big issues on voters minds here, the economy and reproductive rights. But perhaps most interestingly is the mixed reaction among younger voters. I spoke to a group of 20- something-year-olds off camera and they say that they're still undecided, with one telling me though, that she voted for Joe Biden in 2020, but is voting for Donald Trump in 2024, because of the economy.
Clearly, though, others very concerned about abortion rights, and that is an issue vice president can use to pick up some votes here in Georgia where the race is expected to be close -- Erin.
BURNETT: All right. Nick, thank you very much. And so, so crucial when you talk about this and Trump trying to figure
out where to stand on it here at Erick Erickson for the conservative wing of the party, you know, it is being torn in two different directions to win conservatives and moderates as we just heard from that voter in Georgia.
Abortion though is a key issue there, right? It's going to matter and it's an issue right now that is working against Trump. Abortion is on the ballot in 10 states, so it's actually on the ballot, upping turnout for those who care passionately about it. Florida is one of those states where they they'll decide -- voters there -- whether a six-week abortion ban will be overturned turned or not.
Trump is a Florida resident. He has not said how he will vote but he does promise to address it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I'm going to announce that. I'm going to actually have a press conference on that at some point in the near future. So I don'\t want to tell you now.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Tonight, we've got new reporting from Trump team insider, Marc Caputo, of "Bulwark", and he makes it clear that voters may never know how Trump feels about the abortion ban.
So, Marc's OUTFRONT now.
You know, Marc, I was just saying, you know, when Trump I was thinking to myself when your answer to a question is, I'll let you know soon. Then you're struggling and it is obvious you don't have a moral stake on the issue, right, and I don't think -- he's ever pretended to have that, but that's not what certainly conservatives wanted to hear. And it's certainly not what people who think all of these things are crazy want to hear.
So, what are you learning about how he plans to handle this issue in what now, honestly, you're coming into September or the final weeks of the campaign?
MARC CAPUTO, NATIONAL POLITICAL REPORTER, THE BULWARK: Right. Well, a little correction there. There are some conservatives and surprisingly so, evangelical advisers of Donald Trump who wanted to have kind of a "don't ask, don't tell" policy.
They're like, look, don't talk about this because when you talk about abortion, when Donald Trump talks about abortion, he's not talking about an issue that is winning. He's winning on the economy, at least he was until recently. Winning on immigration.
But abortion? Sort of a no-no. So a number of evangelical leaders he's spoken to, advisors of Donald Trump, have said, look, you know, his job is to win the election. And if talking about this Florida amendment hurts him in other states, he shouldn't talk about it. And there's a high possibility, but I don't want to forecast what Donald Trump is going to do that he's going to take that advice and either not talk about it or if he does mention he's going to vote on what's called Amendment Four in Florida, it's going to be far later in the calendar than we were otherwise led to believe.
BURNETT: That's very interesting and how those who obviously have a very strong opinion on it to your point, would say, just don't say anything that they would rather he not on something that extensively so crucial to them. That's very telling.
But, you know, what's also interesting on this, and it will come out more and more of, I mean, it's on the ballot and ten states and we know that in red states where its been on the ballot, it has not gone the conservative's way. Donald Trump has changed his views on abortion -- I mean, talk about flip-flopping, right, Marc, over the years.
Here's just a taste of it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I'm very pro-choice.
I'm also proud to be the most pro-life president in American history.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Very pro-choice, most pro-life president in history.
[19:40:00] I mean, does anybody really know where he stands, though?
CAPUTO: Well, the pro-life community does, or I should say the anti- abortion community, evangelical community, by and large does release the leaders. They say, look, we know where he stands, but Donald Trump does run the risk of that tag, that slogan, the mock -- mocking phrase that was applied to Mitt Romney back in the day, where his opponent said, Mitt's not pro-choice, Mitt's not anti-choice, Mitt's multiple choice on abortion.
And so the question is, will that stick to Donald Trump? I don't think so, but he's trying his best just to avoid this. So far, so sort of good. But this is just an issue he doesn't want to talk about.
BURNETT: No, it isn't. But on the ballot in ten states and as we said, I mean, this is, this is not gone the conservatives way, in multiple red states including Ohio, home of J.D. Vance.
All right. Thanks very much, Marc. Great to see you.
CAPUTO: Thanks. You, too.
BURNETT: All right. And next, RFK Jr. under fire for a potential felony and the offense in his case is allegedly sawing off a dead whales head and tying it to the top of his car. What in the world was he doing?
And did the jailed billionaire founder of Telegram want to get arrested to avoid Putin's wrath?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:45:36]
BURNETT: Tonight, did RFK, Jr. commit a felony? So, an environmental group tonight is calling for an investigation into a resurfaced claim that Kennedy sawed off the head of a dead whale and then transported the carcass on the roof of his minivan. And where does this story come from? His own daughter, who shared the story all the way back in 2012 saying, quote, people on the highway were giving us the finger, but that was just normal day-to-day stuff for us.
Tom Foreman is OUTFRONT.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): A million whale watchers come to New England each year, but it was a dead whale that brought Robert F. Kennedy Jr. running in the 1990s, to chainsaw off its head and strap that massive cranium to his van.
According to his daughter, Kick just six when it happened. Every time we accelerated on the highway, she told "Town and Country" in 2012, whale juice would pour into the windows of the car and it was the rankest thing on the planet.
That old story is finding new life ever since he suspended his long- shot presidential campaign to back Donald Trump.
ROBERT F. KENNEDY JR. (I), FORMER PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Don't you want a safe environment for your children?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Tragic discovery in New York Central Park. That's a bear cub found dead underneath some bushes.
FOREMAN: But other tales about his antics with animals have also popped up. Take that dead bear cub he says he found ten years ago on a rural road with friends.
KENNEDY: I said, let's go put the bear at Central Park and we'll make it look like it got hit by a bike.
FOREMAN: The prank game on gruesome sensation.
KENNEDY: I would like, oh my God, what did I do?
FOREMAN: For a man with deep roots in the environmental movement, RFK Jr.'s menagerie of animal companions could be called eccentric.
KENNEDY: Look what I came home to.
FOREMAN: From the ravens in his backyard.
KENNEDY: I got them to come in and join me for meditations every morning in my balcony. FOREMAN: To the sea lion he once had in his pool, to the regular lion he took on walks until he says it's slaughtered a dear, to the pet emu with his wife, actress Cheryl Hines.
CHERYL HINES, WIFE OF ROBERT F. KENNEDY JR.: He didn't like people except Bobby, and so he would just chase people around and terrify them and try to peck them.
FOREMAN: Still, those stories pale alongside matters like the person since just claim RFK Jr. ate a roasted dog overseas.
KENNEDY: Daddy would never do something like that.
It was a goat.
FOREMAN: And the parasitic worm he says doctors found in his brain.
For RFK, Jr., it all just fits.
KENNEDY: I've lived a very I would say, vivid life.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
FOREMAN (on camera): But all of these vivid stories could be a problem now that Trump is taking him on as a political ally, if only because it opens up another chance for critics to say team Trump, Erin, is just weird.
BURNETT: Well, I will say vivid is an interesting word. I was looking for -- I was waiting, I was waiting to hear the word he was going to use. Vivid indeed.
Tom, thank you.
FOREMAN: You're welcome.
BURNETT: And questions mounting tonight is the founder of Telegram, the Russian Mark Zuckerberg, is now sitting in jail. Did he want to get arrested to protect himself from Putin?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:53:09]
BURNETT: Tonight, questions growing over why Telegram founder Pavel Durov, one of the richest men on Earth, known as Russia's Mark Zuckerberg, is now sitting in French prison just days after several mysterious trips, including to the same remote, but strategically crucial country as Vladimir Putin.
One theory about the rest of Durov was given by Phillips O'Brien, frequent guest OUTFRONT, who specializes in Russia's military. Phillips says, quote: If I controlled an asset of great importance to the Kremlin, and I just visited a location full of Kremlin higher-ups, and I chose to get on a plane and fly to a place where I would most likely be arrested, then indeed I wanted to get arrested for my own protection.
Fred Pleitgen is OUTFRONT.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice- over): Russia state-controlled TV up in arms, labeling the arrest of Telegram founder Pavel Durov as a direct attack against Moscow.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don't think it was an arrest. It was kidnapping, basically a hostage taking, direct political and economic aggression against Russia.
PLEITGEN: Pavel Durov remains in French custody. This video posted on Telegram purporting to show Durov and some associates. The caption saying they were having breakfast in Azerbaijan before flying to Paris.
French prosecutors say Durov is the subject of a cyber crimes investigation and alleging Telegram was complicit in, among other things, elicit transactions, spreading child pornography, and a fraud by failing to moderate the content shared on the platform.
Telegram has Durov has nothing to hide, but Russia's foreign minister now insinuating hat the arrest may be politically motivated, even though France's president denied politics were involved.
SERGEY LAVROV, RUSSIAN'S FOREIGN MINISTER (through translator): Apparently, someone is hoping to somehow gain access to encryption codes.
[19:55:01]
Now, this has already been proven by the actions of the French, that Telegram is a truly reliable and popular network.
PLEITGEN: The 39-year-old Durov often referred to as the Russian Mark Zuckerberg is one of the worlds most well-known social media moguls, cultivating a playboy like image, often posting shirtless pictures of himself on social media and even claiming he's fathered more than 100 children.
He's the co-founder, not just of Telegram used by hundreds of millions worldwide, but also a Russian platform similar to Facebook called the VKontakte. Durov rejects any regulation and moderation on his platforms, as he told CNN in an interview in 2015.
INTERVIEWER: And are you aware that ISIS extremists, terrorists also used Telegram?
PAVEL DUROV, TELEGRAM FOUNDER: I heard of that, yes. We are not happy about that but I guess this kind of people use lots of encrypted technology.
PLEITGEN: While there have been questions about possible links between Durov and the Kremlin, Vladimir Putin spokesman denied the two recently met when both were in Azerbaijan.
Still, pro-Kremlin propagandists are voicing their support for Durov like this rapper who goes by the name Shaman.
SHAMAN, RUSSIAN SINGER (through translator): My dear, it is only in Russia that you can breathe freely and easily. Come back home. Here, you are always remembered, waited for and loved.
PLEITGEN: Fred Pleitgen, CNN, Berlin.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BURNETT: Thanks to Fred.
And OUTFRONT now, John Sullivan. He is the former U.S. ambassador to Russia under both Presidents Biden and President Trump. He is the author of the new book, "Midnight in Moscow: A Memoir from the Front Lines of Russia's War Against the West".
And, Ambassador, I appreciate your time. I mean, there's a lot of intrigue and open questions about Durov's detainment in France. Telegram absolutely obviously, crucial to the Russian military and perhaps extremely close even to Russia's security services and the FSB.
What do you think is going on here?
JOHN SULLIVAN, FORMER U.S. AMBASSADOR TO RUSSIA: Well, thanks. First of all, Erin, great to be with you.
This is an immensely complex case. As you noted, Russians, both the ordinary Russians and the Russian military, depend on Telegram. Putin tried to shut Telegram down in 2018, and there was an outcry. They were workarounds and he couldn't do it. So the Russians depend on Telegram.
The other thing to note there were so many complexities here. This fellow is a citizen of France, in addition to being a citizen of Russia. So it's very complex. He hasn't been in Russia in years. He hadn't cooperated with the Russian security services while he was in Russia. So it's very complex.
The Russians will use this. Putin will use this to his advantage anyway he can, including by saying its hypocrisy by the West, suppressing free speech.
BURNETT: Certainly. So, the pictures were showing of Pavel Durov. I mean, sort of the shirtless cult of personality, something, of course, that evoked someone else in Russia who likes to do that, but performative, right, Putin himself.
You know, Phillips O'Brien --
SULLIVAN: Exactly.
BURNETT: -- as I mentioned him, expert and the Russian military, you, he was just raising the point that some have raised, which is like if they're going to be Putin and Pavel Durov, you know, known to be in the same place at the same time very recently, and then Durov leaves that place and goes to France, where there's a warrant for his arrest and he knows that. This is a billionaire with 100 kids live in the life in Dubai.
You know, it begs the question, why would you go someplace we are going to be arrested and possibly spend the next 20 years in prison? Phillips O'Brien raises the point, maybe its because you thought it was your best option, if you were choosing between that and some sort of death at the hands of Putin security services. Do you think there's anything to that possibly? Or is that conspiracy?
SULLIVAN: It's possible. Not -- I wouldn't say it was likely. But you know, were just a few days removed from the anniversary of Prigozhin's death with a bomb on his plane. So any -- anything's possible in Putin's Russia. And as I say, very complex, it will take some time to unwind all these threads.
BURNETT: So, Ambassador, Putin is going to be dealing with new U.S. president next year, either one he knows, Donald Trump, or one that he has never dealt with before. I mean, you know, as VP, but a female president of the United States, that would be the first woman president, of course, the first woman president of color.
How do you think he views Vice President Harris?
SULLIVAN: Well, I would think, you know, from his perspective, looking at it from his perspective, I would think the most important thing for him would be her relative lack of experience compared, for example, if Joe Biden in foreign affairs and in dealing with Russia.
You know, the sexism in Russia is notorious. I saw it. I was upfront and close witness to it while in Moscow, but I think from Putin's perspective, it's really her experience. He wouldn't want a Margaret Thatcher in the Oval Office and he doesn't know what he's going to get with a President Harris. So it's interesting question though.
BURNETT: All right. Well, Ambassador Sullivan, I really appreciate your time. Thank you. And to remind everybody, your new book, "Midnight in Moscow: A Memoir From the Front Lines of Russia's War Against the West" is available now. Thanks to you.
And to all of you, of course, for joining us.
Anderson starts now.
