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Erin Burnett Outfront
"Pure Evil": 4 Killed, 9 Injured In Georgia High School Shooting; New Poll Shows Harris Momentum, But Some Headwinds Too; CNN On Ground With Ukrainian Forces Training At The "Kill House". Aired 7- 8p ET
Aired September 04, 2024 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[19:00:49]
ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST: OUTFRONT next:
The breaking news, a deadly school shooting. Police say a 14-year-old killed four people and injured nine. A student who was sitting next to the alleged gunman just before he started shooting is with us tonight.
Plus, new polls showing momentum for Harris in key states but also a very important edge for Trump. What is that? John King is at the magic wall with a deep dive on all these new numbers tonight.
And more breaking news. ABC just announcing important new details about their presidential debate. Who's speaking first, where the podiums will be, and whether those mics well be muted or not -- the rules.
Let's go OUTFRONT.
And good evening. I'm Erin Burnett.
OUTFRONT tonight, the breaking news, pure evil. Those are the words from the sheriff tonight, investigating a deadly school shooting that left two students and two teachers dead, nine others hospitalized now recovering from gunshot wounds. The shooting for many, the second day of school back across this country in a school that had been back for a few weeks, taking place just about an hour outside of Atlanta.
According to police, the 14-year-old gunman is male.
This is a new video from inside the school that we've just gotten a student who was sitting next to the alleged gunman in the classroom, he was in algebra class, said they were in that class together when he left the classroom, she thought to go to the bathroom a short time later, he tried to return to the classroom but didn't. Here's why.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLPI)
LYELA SAYARATH, SITS NEXT TO ALLEGED SHOOTER IN CLASS: We're about to open the door until the girl who is going to open it kind of steps back and it's like, oh, wait. And then you just kind of see him through the little window, turn almost and you just hear shots.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: You're going to hear more from Lyela Sayarath, the young woman you just saw in a moment.
Now, according to police, after that shooting that she just described started, he was very quickly confronted by a very courageous school resource officer. And that is when he surrendered.
In so many of these cases, shooters dead here in custody. The shooting taking place as most kids across the United States are heading back to school.
And today, both Vice President Kamala Harris and former President Trump responding.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KAMALA HARRIS, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES & 2024 PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: This is just a senseless tragedy on top of so many senseless tragedies. And it's just outrageous that every day in our country, in the United States of America that parents have to send their children to school worried about whether or not their child will come home alive. It's senseless. It is -- we've got to stop it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Former President Trump also responding online, writing: Our hearts are with the victims and loved ones of those affected by the tragic event in Winder, Georgia, these cherished children were taken from us far too soon by a sick and deranged monster.
Isabel Rosales is OUTFRONT, live in Winder, Georgia, to begin our coverage.
And, Isabel, you've been on the ground there. You've been talking thank to students. What more can you tell us?
ISABEL ROSALES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Erin, they've been telling us just unbelievable story, something no teenager or person should ever witness, including one girl who saw classmate shot in the shoulder, another who shot a teacher, shot another student who is writing to her mother saying, I know I'm not a perfect daughter, but I love you, thinking that those might be her final moments.
And then another student that you mentioned, Lyela, who was in the same class as that shooter who does she believes they only survive because the door automatically locked. These accounts, horrifying.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ROSALES (voice-over): High school students evacuating in Winder, Georgia, one by one out to safety.
Some joined a prayer circle after surviving the deadliest school shooting in the U.S. since March of last year. According to the director of the Georgia Bureau of Investigation, two students and two teachers were killed at Apalachee High School. Nine others were injured and hospitalized, four with gunshot wounds.
The shooter who opened fire Wednesday morning shortly after 10:00 a.m. identified as 14-year-old student Colt Gray, who surrendered after being confronted by school resource officers.
CHRIS HOSEY, GBI DIRECTOR: Within minutes, law enforcement was on scene, as well as two school resource officers assigned here to the school, who immediately encountered the subject within just minutes of this report going out. Once they encountered the subject, the subject immediately surrender to these officers, and he was taken into custody.
ROSALES: Multiple law enforcement officials tell CNN, the school received a phone call this morning, warning that there would be shootings at five schools, starting with theirs. The call is now being investigated.
The sheriff meanwhile says he wasn't aware of any calls. A massive law enforcement response, including the FBI and ATF were on the scene, working with state, local, and federal officers.
Junior Laila Fohrman was in the bathroom when the school alarm went off.
LALIA FOHRMAN, WITNESS: I was scared. I was going to die to be honest. And when I heard hard lockdown, and I knew it wasn't a drill. I immediately texted my dad and I was just like, I don't know if this is a drill. I'm really scared and I just kept my feet up and I prayed.
ROSALES: Many parents rushed to the school like Erin Clark after receiving these text messages from her 17-year-old son, Ethan. School shooting. I'm scared, please. I'm not joking.
I'm leaving work, says the mom. I love you, love you, too, baby.
Others in disbelief.
MATTHEW STRICKLAND, PARENT: I tried to get here soon as possible. I mean, it's just -- it's crazy, something like this happens in such a small town, such small county. You just never know what's going to happen. I was just grateful that she was still good.
ROSALES: Sheriff Jud Smith vowed to stay strong for his community.
SHERIFF JUD SMITH, BARROW COUNTY, GEORGIA: I went to school in the school system my kids go to school system. I'm proud of the school system. My heart hurts for these kids. My heart hurts for our community, but I want to make it very clear that hate will not prevail in this county.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ROSALES (on camera): And just in the last hour here, this flag right here in Apalachee High School has been lowered to half-staff, a sign that something horrible has happened here, a mark of respect for the two teachers that have been gone down and two students, nine others also injured.
This community, Erin, is going through something horrendous here. Schools have been closed for the remainder of the week and we also have been told by investigators that the alleged shooter will be charged with murder, and it is their time to try him as an adult.
All right. Isabel, thank you very much.
I want to go now to Lyela Sayarath. She's 16-years-old. She's a junior at Apalachee High School and was sitting next to the suspected gunman moments before the deadly shooting occurred.
And, Lyela, thank you so much for being willing to do this, for sharing this. How are you even doing right now?
SAYARATH: I'm doing okay. It hasn't really like affected me too much just yet, but I think when I reconnect with some of my friends, that's when all kind of hit me.
BURNETT: I mean, you were there. You were sitting next to the alleged shooter right before this all happened, moments before it happened.
When you and he were sitting next to each other, I guess -- I guess you sort of called it you elbow partners. You know, you were kind of elbow to elbow at your at your desks. How did he seem to you?
SAYARATH: Nothing too off. He was just another quiet kid that didn't really speak too much.
BURNETT: And I know you've been in here for a few weeks. Has -- you've been sitting next to him all the way through. Did anything -- anything different today about him?
SAYARATH: No he wasn't here when I first one school for started. I think he transferred in, but nothing really seemed to talk (ph) about him.
BURNETT: So, then this morning, he leaves your classroom and I know initially Lyela, you thought maybe he need to go to the bathroom, but he didn't actually take the bathroom pass, so then what happened?
SAYARATH: He was gone for a little while. Not unusual. He usually skips class, but a little bit later, and administrator came walking in to find him and at that point, one of my other friends was also in the bathroom when he was actually in the bathroom.
And he came in looking for them and they said the wrong name. They said my friends name because they have similar names. But they asked if his bag was there. They said yes and I gave him my friends bag a little bit later. My friend came back in from the bathroom with his bag and I had asked him what happened and he said he didn't know anything and so class just continue like normal. And then a little bit later, my teachers teaching she gets a call on
the intercom that she needs to check her email. So she goes to check it and then she comes back and she's gotten back-and-forth and (INAUDIBLE), but he's still not in the classroom.
And soon he comes back to the door, and I see him to the window and he tries to come in, but the students like -- because all the doors are automatically locked, so you have to be let into classrooms.
[19:10:12]
BURNETT: Yes.
SAYARATH: But he tried to come in --
(CROSSTALK)
BURNETT: So, you see his face when he comes back to the door, you actually saw his face?
SAYARATH: Yes, I saw it through the window. Yes.
BURNETT: And did it -- did anything strike you in that moment of oh, my goodness, something is horribly wrong or did he look normal?
SAYARATH: No, he looked normal.
BURNETT: So then what happened? He looks normal. Someone goes to open the door?
SAYARATH: Someone else to open it, and then they back away and they don't open it and then you see him turn to what was my right at the time. And then you just hear shots.
BURNETT: And those shots, Lyela, so we understand that's the classroom essentially next to yours. That was the door was open for some reason.
SAYARATH: Yes. I think that was open.
BURNETT: And then what did you hear?
SAYARATH: A lot of shots kind of back to back and then you hear like the people next door throughout it. You kind of heard them moving things inside the room, whether it was desks or other things like that but you hear them but moving, yelling, things like that.
BURNETT: What were you even thinking in that moment, Lyela, when you hear the shots? And it could have been your classroom and you hear people trying to stay alive in the room next door.
SAYARATH: It didn't feel real, like just it wasn't necessarily something was horribly wrong, like I didn't cry it and freak out. I stayed pretty calm. I was kind of -- I was shaking a little bit, but I never I never cry and I never like panic because it just nothing felt like real in that moment.
BURNETT: I know you had a friend --
SAYARATH: It's like normal in a way.
BURNETT: I know, as you said, you're going to have time with your friends and think about to realize what happened. You did have a friend in that classroom where people were shot. And I know you've had a chance to speak with him. What did he tell you he saw in that classroom?
SAYARATH: He didn't speak much. I didn't try and push him or ask him anything. I just comforted him, letting him know that I was there, asked if he had talked to his sister, his brother, and I walked with him and I stayed with him until he found his brother.
And then I went to look for my friends, but I didn't want to talk to him about it or like ask him about it too much, just because he just seemed really shaken up.
BURNETT: Obviously, it was a school resource officer who stopped him. I know people you -- you see every single day when you go to school. Do you know those SROs well? The school resource officers?
SAYARATH: No. I don't really know them.
BURNETT: And I know you're in your classroom and all this is happening. Lyela, did you -- did you hear any of the exchange when that confrontation happened and they were able to stop him and obviously save what could have been so many lives?
SAYARATH: I heard yelling. I'm not sure exactly if they stopped him on my hallway or if he was more throughout the school or where they stopped him, but I did hear like the cops or officers yelling in the hallways.
BURNETT: And, Lyela, I know you mentioned that he may have transferred in recently that he wasn't there at the beginning of the year, and I know you guys have been back for pretty much a month, so you're well into school at this point. But you mentioned something in a moment ago. You said that he would often skip school.
Is there anything else that you think is important for people to know about him just from your observations over these past weeks sitting next to him?
SAYARATH: Not really. I mean, he was -- he never talked. It's like I didn't know him very well. He never really spoke. I couldn't tell you what his voice sounded like. Or really even describe his face to you. He was just there.
BURNETT: I know that you're going to a vigil now, Lyela, with your friends. How are you all going to manage this? Just even tonight in these next hours?
SAYARATH: I think talking about what each of us went through piecing together the story is trying to figure out exactly what happened, and just being there and comforting each other. BURNETT: When he left to go to the bathroom, did you -- did he take anything with him that there could have had a gun in it or does it seem from what you observed that he would have had to get the gun from outside the classroom?
SAYARATH: I don't think he got the gun from inside the classroom. I think he had it on him. I never first saw him -- I don't remember what -- don't remember seeing him leave, but I don't think his bag was in the classroom at the time of the shooting.
[19:15:03]
So I think when he did leave, he took it with him.
BURNETT: Oh, so you think, somehow like under his shirt or something on his body?
SAYARATH: Yeah.
BURNETT: Well, Lyela, I very much appreciate it. We all do. Thank you so much for talking to us and sharing with us what you know. I know it's got to be unbelievably hard. So thank you.
SAYARATH: Of course.
BURNETT: All right. As we continue to get more information on that, if we are anything from law enforcement, were going to bring that to you.
Next, we do have some new poll information coming out and it's from a whole lot of places. It shows Kamala Harris with a lot of momentum in key swing states. There are also though warning assigned -- warning signs ahead for her. What exactly are they?
John King is going to do a deep dive for us tonight at his magic wall.
Plus, our KFILE scouring through years of Harris's comments and tweets on an issue that is not going away and what they found it is coming back now to haunt Kamala Harris is important to know. You'll see that exclusive report here first OUTFRONT.
And the Trump playbook of 2016 sounds a lot like the Trump playbook of 2024.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: She's raising your taxes really high.
He wants to raise your taxes by four times.
She wants open borders.
He wants open borders.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: So is that old and stale or is it going to work again? Carville and Begala weigh in.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:20:55]
BURNETT: Tonight, Harris's momentum. A new CNN poll showing Harris picking up support in some very important states, swing states. Let's just show you what we're looking at. Harris is ahead of Trump in the key blue wall states of Michigan and Wisconsin.
In Arizona, though, Trump is in the lead. Georgia and Nevada are both within the margin of error, although Harris is technically up a point in each. In Pennsylvania, that is a dead heat right now.
And we're going to have a lot more on all of these numbers with John king in just a moment, a deep dive on them at the wall. You know, it comes though as vice president Kamala Harris is now trying to talk more about policy and to define herself as different than Biden for the first time announcing some differences from the president on taxes. In New Hampshire today, Harris announcing she would tax investment income at a lower rate than President Biden has proposed.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KAMALA HARRIS, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES & 2024 PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: If you earn $1 million a year or more, the tax rate on your long long-term capital gains will be 28 percent under my plan, because we know when the government encourages investment, it leads to broad- based economic growth and it creates jobs which makes our economy stronger.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: To be clear, she would increase taxes by a lot less than Biden on capital gains, but still increased them more from where they are now.
Former President Trump firing off nearly a dozen online videos around the time that Harris was speaking about her economic policies, one after the other, he was talking about the border, communism, crime, Biden, and also the economy.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT & 2024 PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Trump cash versus Kamala crash. We're going to have a crash like 1929 if she gets in. It will not be pretty.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: That line of attack actually is reminiscent, in fact, almost identical to what Trump was warning about the last time around.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
TRUMP: If Biden wins, and you're going to have a stock market crash, the equivalent of 1928 and 1929.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
BURNETT: Of course, that has not happened, despite Trump's prediction.
It is clear though, that both of sides know that the economy is key in the election, right? It is the focus of for voters more than anything else.
So John King now at the magic wall as promised.
So, John, as you look at it right now with all the latest polling data, all that you've got, where are and what are the paths right now to 270 tonight?
JOHN KING, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Erin, strap in. Our new polling shows, yes, some Harris momentum, but the big headline is, this is a very, very, very, very -- I could add a few more "very" -- close races.
Let's just look at the data and what it says. This is where we are right now. The yellow states are toss-up states.
They include North Carolina. We did not poll in North Carolina this time. I'm going to lean it red. Democrats would get mad at me, but I'm going to lean that one red until I see data that prove otherwise because it has gone red in every election since 2008 when Obama won, it was Republican before that.
Here's our new polling, Harris ahead in Wisconsin, outside the margin, Harris ahead in Michigan just outside the margin. That gets her to 250, right? Donald Trump ahead in Arizona, outside the margin that let me make that red, that would move him up to 246 pretty close, right?
And then you mentioned these other states are too close to call. Pennsylvania, a genuine tie. Let's just say Harris is exact -- is really plus one in Georgia and plus one in Nevada.
This is just one poll. This is a hypothetical here. That alone though, if she could held that, were getting to 272 and she could win the presidency without Pennsylvania.
But again, she's plus one in the polling. It's just as plausible and we've seen other data that Donald Trump could win Georgia and Donald Trump could win Nevada as well. That would get him to 268.
So what happens then? You're looking at Pennsylvania, right? Let's assume Harris ekes it out. It's a tie right now. If Trump won it, he'd be president of the United States. If Harris won it, under this scenario, again, its a scenario that gets you to 269 to 268, and it all comes down to Nebraska's second congressional district, either a tie or it puts Harris over the top at 270.
I'm not saying that's going to happen. What I'm saying is if you look at this data, here's where we start today. Those polls tell us, Erin, look, we are eight weeks and six days away from counting votes. It's competitive.
BURNETT: Two sixty-nine to 268, that's a nightmare scenario, I think for so many in this country, no matter which side of the political spectrum you may be on.
[19:25:08]
But you know, John, what I was just mentioning, right before you came on, talking about the economy which both Harris and Trump are focused on today. It is the number one issue and Trump still has, at least from the polling you're looking at, he still has the edge there, right?
KING: This is Trump's biggest advantage, which is why he wants to hold it, and why you see the vice president out doing economic speeches. Her ads are also tilting now heavily toward the economy.
In Arizona, Trump's up five overall. Voters view him is the better candidate by 15 points on the economy. In Georgia, where Harris is the tide, maybe plus one, Trump has a slight advance.
So you can see the trend here. In places where Harris is competitive or ahead, Trump's numbers are lower. Nevada is the outlier. It got thrown -- its economy got thrown in the trash during COVID.
But the key for Harris is to bring this Trump advantage down, where she's winning in Wisconsin, she's up six in the state, Trump only plus two on the economy.
This is her biggest challenge. Try to -- if she can't catch Trump on the economy, at least make him plus two or plus four, not plus 8, 16 or more.
The economy right now is Trump's biggest advantage by far.
BURNETT: All right. Well, now, you go down, deepen the polling today, there were some warning signs for Harris and specific vulnerability with key voting groups. What are they?
KING: So let's look first. The gender gap gets talked about a lot.
Let's look at women voters. If you look at these numbers, Harris is essentially tracking Biden a little better in some places, she would probably like to improve these numbers, but when it comes to women, look at Harris now and Biden 2020, and they're relatively good right there. She would like to improve them, obviously, because she's struggling.
One reason you want to improve is because she is struggling a bit among men voters, male voters, especially when you look out in the western states in 2020, Trump won them by two points in Arizona, he's up 14. In 2012 and '10, that's about the same.
But if you -- if you look at Nevada, eight, plus 18 plus five, so this is a problem for the vice president, without a doubt, she needs to try to improve her standing among male voters. And again, you can trace a lot of that back to the economy. And people just don't know a lot about her.
Here's one other thing quickly I want to show you though, Hispanic voters are critical in both Arizona and Nevada, and look at this, Biden won by 24 points. Harris only by six in Arizona right now, Biden won in Nevada by 26, Harris by 20.
Smaller subset of voters here, so the margin of error is a little higher. So this might not be as bad as is it looks, but it's still bad and one of the places the vice president has to do some improvement, among men, among Latinos, most of all, that would help itself on the economy.
BURNETT: And what about independents and moderates?
KING: So this is fascinating to me and this just raises the stakes for the debate outside the chart here. Watch this when you bring it up, independents and moderates this, this is into just independent voters, but the frontlines are similar with moderates.
Look at how Trump is now winning in Arizona, in Georgia, in Michigan, among independents, right? Biden won all of these battleground states among independents back in 2020, this is an area of the vice president needs to improve her standing, voters in the middle.
These are people who self-identify as independents. You see very similar numbers among people who self-identify as moderate. She's struggling in the middle. She is viewed as more liberal than moderate Joe Biden.
And so she's struggling a bit in the middle, but here's the opportunity. A lot of people don't know a lot about the vice president, which is why she's out there giving these speeches, right?
Look at this. The percentage of voters in each of these battleground states who say they might change their mind. Its in the teens, 11 percent in Georgia, tends to be in the low to mid-teens in all these that a battleground states.
But look at the independents, 24 percent, 23 percent, 27 percent, 23 percent, 29 percent.
BURNETT: Wow.
KING: They are open to changing their mind if Kamala Harris can prove herself on the economy and on leadership. These are the independent numbers. They're very similar among moderates. We don't talk much more about in this polarized climate, about the middle of the electorate. There is room for her to grow in the middle if she makes her case.
BURNETT: Yes. When you look at the numbers of 268 to 269 at the end of the day, right? Any tiny margin of these groups matters so much.
All right.
KING: Absolutely.
BURNETT: John, thank you so much for all of that.
So lets go now to Scott Jennings, Kate Bedingfield.
So, Kate, Harris is up in Wisconsin and Michigan. Let's just start with that where John started. And these are massive turnarounds over the past weeks from Biden and now outside the margin of error. Do you feel great about this?
KATE BEDINGFIELD, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I feel good. I feel encouraged. I wouldn't say I feel great because I think the totality of the numbers show that this is still and its going to be an incredibly, incredibly close race. We just heard John go through it.
I think what the numbers today show what is that Kamala Harris has more pathways, more conceivable pathways to 270 than Trump does, or at least then Trump felt like he did six weeks ago when Joe Biden's at the top of the ticket. I think there's no question his path has narrowed.
So I think these numbers should give Democrats, they should be heartened. I think its showing that she continues to build strength in the coalition that she needs to win. And as John was just saying that she has room to grow.
Trump, I think probably has a little bit less room to grow in part because he is so well-defined. So, you know, I think it is encouraging. I don't think by any stretch that Democrats should view this as a slam dunk though. There is a long way to go in this race and it's clearly very, very close.
BURNETT: I mean, Scott, you know, obviously, few weeks ago, pretty much all those swing states Trump thought he had it locked up. He was talking about New Hampshire, right? So it is -- it is a small solace to say, oh, well, she's only up 1 percent in Georgia, you know, we can still do.
[19:30:05]
I mean, it's still going to be pretty grim to look at these for Trump's team, isn't it?
SCOTT JENNINGS, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I don't know. I mean, he was underestimated badly in several of these states by a lot of polling in 2016 and 2020, including in some CNN polling, I might add.
I agree with Kate, I think it's an incredibly close race. Either of these candidates could win any of these states were talking about. And I also agree with John that the ticket to victory for the middle and for some of these male voters that they're competing for is really to talk about the economy.
I had to chuckle a little bit today listening to her talk about her tax policy. I mean, she is like see Joe Biden's tax policy is only going to kill you as much as, you know, Jason Voorhees, but I'm more like Mike Myers, he is at that better. No, it's not better. They're both scary as hell. And either way,
you're going to be dead think she's going to have to come up with something a little better than I'm going to raise your taxes a little less than Joe Biden as if she wants to do economic competition here.
BURNETT: On the capital gains specifically, on the main tax policy there, at least as of now, has been no difference between the two.
Kate, let me just ask you though, one thing that John mentioned there when were talking about these different voting groups. And Scott just brought up men, but I want to ask about independents and moderates, right? Those independents that he was looking at in swing states 25 to 30 percent of them are open to changing their mind at this point. Alright?
Is this -- is this something that worries you or is this something that actually makes you feel good? Because you are supporting the candidate about whom people no less.
JENNINGS: Well, I think its certainly shows that she has more room to grow. And so I think that as she is continuing to define herself out on the campaign trail. Also, we've now passed Labor Day, so you have voters really starting to tune in a way that, you know, historically they don't pre-Labor day. So this is really a moment for her to make her case.
And she also has Donald Trump out, her opponent, continuing to try to throw everything at the wall against her to see what sticks. He's not really making a coherent and cohesive argument against her, and he's continuing to use some of these same tired, ugly, personal attacks, which we know that moderate and independent voters are tired of. They rejected it in 2020, and we've seen in all so the polling since this race started to come together about a year ago when it was going to be Trump versus Biden, we saw that people said we don't want this rematch. We don't want more of this.
You're getting more of the same from Trump. You're hearing something new and different from Kamala Harris that they're excited about.
BURNETT: So, Scott, this change in their minds are at the point that one point that Kate just raised was so the way Trump talks, all right? So if they're going to listen to what's going on, they're going to watch this debate. They're going to listen to interviews he does.
The questions, Scott, is, are they going to take into account and do they care when he comes out says personally pejorative things like he often does? Today on a radio show in New Hampshire, he's talking about how Harris ended up on the Democratic ticket. And here's what he said.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
TRUMP: They didn't want her, but they were politically correct. They wanted to be politically correct as so many people do nowadays, and they chose somebody that they didn't want. We can go another four years with a dumb president.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
BURNETT: Scott, that's what I want to ask you about. Calling or dumb, just coming out and doing that. Are you worried about what independents and moderates will do when they are confronted with sound bites like that? Or if that is the kind of stuff that we get a whole lot of next week at the debate?
JENNINGS: Yeah, I don't think it would be wise to do that at the debate and yes, of course, there'll be some voters turned off by that. On the other hand, Trump has some appeal and some need to talk to politically disengaged. People who are probably not all that offended by crass blunt talk like that and trying to draw them in, trying to make meme-able content, trying to get them to consume this short sound bites.
As we know, there are a bunch of voters in this country or maybe non- voters who he wants to make voters, they might pick up on something like this. So I think there's a method to the madness, but you do, when you squeeze the balloon on one end, it pops on the other.
And so there is a tradeoff. So, some will not like it. There may be a cohort out there that like the blunt talk and that's what he's betting on.
BURNETT: Well, we'll see with something this close, every single vote matters in a way, perhaps never has before.
All right, thanks very much to both of you, Kate and Scott.
And next, the breaking news from ABC, they are giving out the details here on the debate, revealing tonight which candidate will get first pick on podium placement, who will get the last word? This is now all have been decided. And the mics are they muted or not?
Also, KFILE scouring years of Kamala Harris's statements and tweets, an exhaustive search and finding more than 50 instances of her slamming Trump's border wall. So why does that very wall now featured in her campaign ad?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:38:48]
BURNETT: Breaking news: the rules are now set for next week's presidential debate between Donald Trump and Kamala Harris.
ABC News just announcing that Trump won the virtual well coin toss, which allows him to decide that he'll get the last word and closing statements.
Microphones for each candidate will be muted when they are not speaking, which is something the Harris campaign had fought.
There will be no audience. This is the first time Harris and Trump will be face-to-face in the same room together. Of course, for some know audience, obviously was Biden and Trump. James Carville and Paul Begala together once again here OUTFRONT they are of course, the brains behind the winning 1992 Clinton-Gore campaign. And they are here reunited.
So, James, Trump's going to get the last word in this debate. ABC is saying, is microphone will be muted when he's not answering a question which his team was very happy with, the Harris campaign had fought.
Are you worried that these things either of them are going to be setbacks for Harris in the debate?
JAMES CARVILLE, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Not at all. I fully expect the vice president to drag him out across the debate platform. I fully expect her to do very well. I think she's very well-prepared. I think his whole act is stale and is going to be exposed in this debate. I'm very optimistic and I'm not supposed to say that.
[19:40:02]
I might have to eat my words, but I don't think I'm going to.
BURNETT: So, Paul, to this point of stale or stick with a good thing when you've got a good thing, okay? That line, Donald Trump's lines of attack in presidential debates have not changed over the past eight years, not very much, right?
I mean, here, we've got a few examples versus Hillary Clinton and Joe Biden.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: She's raising your taxes really high.
He wants to raise your taxes by four times.
She wants open borders.
He wants open borders.
She's done a terrible job for the African-Americans.
He's done a horrible job for Black people.
She never gets anything done.
But he doesn't do anything.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: I mean, that's pretty incredible. I mean, you know, we look for word repeats in his business, Paul, it's not always that easy.
So does that same playbook work against Harris now?
PAUL BEGALA, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: No way, not when 75 percent of the American people want change. You know, 75 percent think we're moving in the wrong direction.
This is why Joe Biden was so stuck, right? But Kamala Harris has broken free of the incumbency because she's change incarnate. And all she has to do -- James is exactly right -- is turn to Trump and say, you know, that's all you got? That same old stale.
It's is like a carton of milk that you left out in the sun for eight years. You know, its stale and it stinks and nobody wants it.
BURNETT: James, you know, but when you come to people want change and obviously I understand the change that Kamala Harris in so many ways just embodies by her existence, right, and who she is.
But on policy, you know, she'd been vice president for three-and-a- half years. How do you make a change argument there or does it even matter? I mean, today, we were -- we were highlighting that she was going to raise capital gains taxes by slightly less than Joe Biden was going to raise capital gains taxes as if that was some sort of a massive break and tax policy, right? You know, this isn't about that, is it?
CARVILLE: Well, first of all, people understand the vice president doesn't set policy, but that's all right. She's got many things you can point to. By way, she's talking about small business tax breaks. Trump's talking about keeping tax cut for people over $400,000. Who do you think needs a break this country? Small businesses or billionaires? I mean, it's a very, very simple thing that she's got to do.
Trump represents the past. He's stale. He's the politics of yesterday. She's got to portray herself, and I think she will, is being fresh. And I think she can do that.
I don't think it's that hard against Trump. It might be hard against somebody else, but do you got to look at who you can run again.
BURNETT: So, Paul, on the stage, obviously, there's going to be Harris and Trump, but, you know, hovering in the background is what you get with that ticket.
And meanwhile, Trump's supporters have been fawning over Trump's running mate, J.D. Vance, despite polls showing that he was got -- he's vastly unpopular with a lot of key voters that Trump would need to bring in as new voters, right, and Harris's team obviously is labeled and weird, you know, all the branding that's been going on.
Here's an exchange I wanted to play for you that he had last night on Fox News.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LAURA INGRAHAM, FOX NEWS HOST: How do you go to the undecideds at this point, the shrinking pool of people and convince them that not only are you serious and your seriously smart, but you're a regular person?
I've known you for a long time. Really funny, really funny, versus the giggle and vibe show that seems to work for a lot of women voters out there.
SEN. J.D. VANCE (R-OH), VICE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: You know, Laura, my approach to this is just to get out there and meet as many people as possible.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Okay. So, Laura Ingraham saying, I've known you a really long time. You're really, really fun and funny. She's trying to make the argument for him there. You and James been on the show saying that Trump could ditch Vance eventually as his running mate.
Is -- do you still think that could happen at this point?
BEGALA: You're getting late. You're only 16 days before early voting in Virginia, Minnesota. Ballots are being printed, so Trump may be had passed his useful date when he can do it.
But I wonder when Laura said he was funny, she meant not funny ha-ha, but funny, strange. Anybody could look at that clip of him trying to order donuts. The guy can't even order a donut. I mean, he is the most unpopular running mate in modern times I think much worse than Governor Palin of Alaska in 2008.
He's just -- people just don't like him. It's like the old joke. What he asked somebody, why does it really takes such an instant dislike to me and answers: J.D., it saves time.
BURNETT: James?
CARVILLE: Yeah. You know, Erin, Biden, I mean, Trump got a bounce out of J.D. Vance. It's called a dead cat bounce. Okay? That's exactly what he got. He's got this turkey strapped around his neck and there's going to -- they're going to choke him with it.
I promise you. I promise you that we'll go see a debate. I still stand by my prediction that the vice president's going to do quite well and people will watch and pay attention because you had a train wreck on June the 27th. So they've stimulated to watch this debate. I think the number is going to be really high compared to other debates.
[19:45:03]
BURNETT: All right. Well, we shall see. I knew you wanted to get in there. I guess it might have been about a cat.
Very quickly, Paul.
BEGALA: The most important way that Kamala Harris can break with Joe Biden is all through the debate, don't be 81-years-old.
Okay. People were done with Biden, not because he is too liberal or too conservative to anything. They just thought he was too old and she's not. She's change incarnate.
BURNETT: Well, if that's the standard, Paul, she's got to do is show up.
Alright, thank you, both. I appreciate it.
All right. And that is next Tuesday. Don't miss the ABC News presidential debate simulcast Tuesday at 9:00 Eastern. We'll have it here on CNN as well.
Also with our coverage and exclusive analysis, both before and after that crucial debate.
Meantime, next, our KFILE has gone through years of Kamala Harris's tweets and records. And what they have found are comments that could come back to haunt her now.
Plus, we'll take you inside Ukraine's so-called kill house.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:50:05]
BURNETT: Tonight, KFILE investigates. In a new report, you'll see first OUTFRONT, the KFILE team scoured Kamala Harris's tweets and statements going all the way back to 2017, and what they found was more than 50 instances of Harris slamming Trump's border wall. But now, new Harris campaign ads actually showcase that very wall.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
AD NARRATOR: As a border state prosecutor, she took on drug cartels and jailed gang members for smuggling weapons and drugs across the border.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURENTT: And on top of critical tweets, Harris also wrote her 2019 book, quote, there was a bigger reason to oppose the border wall, a useless wall on the southern border would be nothing more than a symbol, a monument standing in opposition to not just everything I value, but to the fundamental values upon which this country was built. How could I vote to build what would be a little more than a monument designed to send the cold hard message, "Keep out".
Well, KFILE's Andrew Kaczynski joins me now.
So, Andrew, I mean, you -- and you all have gone through, I mean, scoured an incredible amount of material. Tell me more about what you found.
ANDREW KACZYNSKI, CNN KFILE SENIOR EDITOR: Yeah, that's right. We found more than 50 of those tweets criticizing the border wall before she used that in her ad. And I want people to take a look at just a few of what she said here. She called it wasteful, useless, a waste of taxpayer money, a vanity wall project, a wasteful border wall, a stupid wall, a medieval vanity project, and an unnecessary wall.
And those are really just -- I mean there were more of this, just like 10 or 50, but there was really -- there was really a lot of this was the common refrain during the campaign. You read that quote where she said it was against everything that not only the she stood for, everything America stood for. And then she brought this up a lot. Take a listen to just one instance of that in 2019.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HARRIS: It's the president's vanity project. His multibillion-dollar vanity project called a wall is nothing more than a distraction from the fact that he actually hasn't focused on working people in America.
He contrived national crisis around his big distraction.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: All right. So you go through all of that, you've got all the tweets and yet all of a sudden in the ads, there's pictures of the wall and then you went through to look at that wall. Like, what is that specific wall that's in her campaign ads now and you found something very interesting about this specific portion of the wall.
KACZYNSKI: Yeah, and what's -- I think what's also really remarkable. This is like, I mean, you heard her talking about it there though, Trump's wall in his campaign during his presidency, there was really no greater symbol of Trump's presidency than the wall in the way that Democrats were attacking him over the wall and his restrictive immigration policies. So, we looked in that ad, and if you look at it, that exact area of wall is in Sosebee, Arizona.
And that is a portion of wall that was actually built by Donald Trump. It was built in an area where there was not previous wall. It's actually pretty controversial when they were building it at the time. So, just to see that.
And there are other --
BURNETT: She's using his wall that he built to say, look at what I did basically.
KACZYNSKI: And the other images of the wall, we weren't able to pinpoint, but there's telltale signs that that was a Trump wall because there's an anti-climbing plate on top that became popularized during the Trump years.
BURNETT: It's really incredible reporting and important.
All right. Andrew Kaczynski and KFILE, thank you very much.
And next, Ukraine upping the ante tonight, testing out a new weapon. It is a fire spewing drone, and we have new video of this drone in action.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:57:50] BURNETT: Tonight, kill house. That's what the Ukrainian military is calling their secret operation and our Fred Pleitgen, who got incredible access to the kill house is OUTFRONT tonight.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice- over): Elite soldiers from Ukraine's third assault brigade get out of their armored vehicle and right into a massive firefight. One of the soldiers is wounded, the other scream for a tourniquet. But the unit keeps moving.
While Ukraine's army has been losing ground in many areas, in this part of the Kharkiv region, they've turned the tide, later, taking several Russian dugouts, the deputy commander says.
The enemy has no results, he says. Moreover, we have positive results. We've pushed the enemy back and captured a battalion line of enemy defense. While the third assault brigade says, they'll keep pushing forward, Ukraine remains badly outmanned by the Russians.
At a third assault brigade wants ever more combat drones to be their great equalizer. This is their drone school they call the kill house.
Drone technology is developing extremely fast on the battlefields in Ukraine. And the third assault brigade believes in the future, they will need even more drone pilots. So they're training as many as possible as fast as possible to get them combat ready.
They've already trained more than 1,500 perspective drone aviators here, not just to fly the FPV drones effectively, but to use them as lethal weapons capable of destroying even tanks and armored vehicles.
The greatest effectiveness of a pilot is here is or hurt desire, the school's boss tells me.
FPV pilots are people of a special mindset. They know how to hit the target, what ammunition to use? The ammo is becoming more lethal as well. A different Ukrainian unit now acknowledging they're using a trial version of a fire spewing drone that drops an incendiary substance on Russian positions.
But the Russians keep hitting Ukraine with much bigger munitions missile strikes killing several people in Lviv in western Ukraine overnight, search and rescue crews are recovering the bodies for hours.
Kyiv's leadership has vowed revenge for Russia's aerial attacks again Ukrainian cities, a driving factor also for the soldiers attacking Russian positions on the northeastern front.
Fred Pleitgen, CNN, Kyiv.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BURNETT: Thanks, Fred, for that incredible. And that's to all of you for being with us.
Anderson starts now.
