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Erin Burnett Outfront

Soon: Vance, Walz To Debate Hours After Iran's Attack On Israel; Soon On CNN: First & Only Debate Between Vance, Walz. Aired 7- 8p ET

Aired October 01, 2024 - 19:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[19:00:28]

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: We are live in New York, where Democratic and Republican vice-presidential nominees, Tim Walz and J.D. Vance, are about to face in their first and only debate.

This comes just hours after major Iranian missile attack on Israel, a significant escalation of tensions in the region that presents new challenges for leaders in the White House and around the world.

Welcome to this special edition of ERIN BURNETT OUTFRONT. Erin is on assignment.

I'm Anderson Cooper.

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: And I'm Jake Tapper.

We're covering the breaking news in the Middle East and we are counting down to tonight's vice presidential debate.

The candidates will take the stage in less than two hours, and Iran's attack is certainly to be a key line of questioning that's only adding to the pressure on Ohio Senator J.D. Vance and Minnesota Governor Tim Walz as they take part in what could be the most important vice presidential debate in modern American political history.

Vance and Walz are tasked with delivering closing arguments for their running mates, Donald Trump and Kamala Harris, since there are currently no plans for another presidential debate. What the VP nominee say tonight could potentially make a real difference in this razor close race for the White House with election day only five weeks away.

Our political team is here to set the stage for the vice presidential debate that you will see live on CNN and our correspondents are standing by in the Middle East to give us the very latest on the aftermath of that Iranian attack.

First up this hour, the dangerous escalation in the Middle East as Iran launched an unprecedented barrage of ballistic missiles into Israel.

Let's go straight to CNN's Jim Sciutto, who is joining us now from Tel Aviv.

Jim, the Israeli prime minister is vowing revenge

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: That's right, and initially both U.S. and Israeli officials described this attack, this Iranian attack as unsuccessful, that it had been defeated by Israel. And while that's largely true in the aftermath as a damage assessment begins, we are beginning to see that some missiles struck, they struck the ground either close to their targets or even hit their targets. It does not appear they drew a great deal of damage at this point. But, first, we can show some video here from are coming around and Israeli airbase to the east of -- to the east of where we are here in Tel Aviv.

And in that video you can see that some of these missiles struck the ground. What you're seeing here actually these are in and around Tel Aviv. We do also have pictures from an airbase nearby. It is not clear whether there was significant damage to the airbase, but at least those missiles getting close to close to there.

There were also images that were seeing from just north of where our position is in central Tel Aviv where a strike gets within, it appears no kilometer of the headquarters of Mossad. That's the strike you're seeing right there. Mossad, of course, Israel's international so intelligence services.

In fact, we saw this strike from our vantage point as it happened. And I saw quite a large explosion from the roof of the hotel where we are right now when it struck, it is not clear what the damage is, and around there, but again, it shows just how close these missiles came to what appeared be their targets. Our understanding is that the three of the main targets were two Israeli airfield fields, and one -- and the Mossad headquarters.

Now, in addition to that, as we were here in central Tel Aviv, we saw dozens and dozens of missile intercepts over the city, just over our heads, in fact, as they were happening and as those Iranian missiles were struck, pieces of either the missiles themselves or the interceptors fell in and around us here in Tel Aviv.

So the truth is, Jake, even with a success its full intercept, there's debris that falls to the ground, sometimes a great velocity, and with the capability of doing damage.

TAPPER: Now -- thank you so much, Jim. Appreciate it. Stay safe.

Now to the breaking news here in New York City, the vice presidential debate between Minnesota Governor Tim Walz and Ohio Senator J.D. Vance.

CNN's Kaitlan Collins is in the debate spin room. Normally, the studio for John Oliver's show on HBO, "Last Week Tonight".

Kaitlan, what are you hearing from your sources ahead of this high- stakes debate? KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN CHIEF CORRESPODENT: Well, Jake, both Vance and

Walz campaigns have been keeping a close eye on the developments happening in the Middle East this afternoon, watching and keeping a response.

[19:05:00]

An idea on the response that they are waiting for Israel to have, that the prime minister promised to respond after Iran attacked Israel, with that barrage of missiles earlier today. Or at least tried to, of course, a lot of them ended up being intercepted.

But that is something both campaigns have been watching closely because it certainly is something that could come up on the debate stage tonight. And they are each preparing their respective responses to that. You heard from former president Donald Trump earlier today saying that they don't respect us anymore. He's referring to Iran not respecting the United States, implying that that is because of the Biden administration.

That is something that you could very well see J.D. Vance echo when he is on that debate stage with Governor Walz tonight.

But, Jake, overall for this debate, what this afternoon has also included is some last-minute preparations from both of these campaigns. Obviously, J.D. Vance's campaign has been preparing with Tom Emmer, the House minority whip, stepping in as Governor Walz, and that a fellow Minnesotan for the Vance campaign or for the Walz campaign, they've been having Secretary Pete Buttigieg step in as Senator J.D. Vance.

They've been having these preparation sessions for that meeting on this debate stage tonight, both of them lowering the expectations for one another, Jake, though I should note that each of them has plenty of debate experience on their own.

Donald Trump for his part, has been voicing confidence privately in Vance and his capability tonight that what I've heard from sources that he's actually spent less time really talking about how Vance is going to do and more time attacking Governor Walz and what he believes is going to be his inability to perform well on that debate stage tonight, Jake.

I will say, we are in the spin room right now. One thing we do know from the Vance campaign is that we can expect to see the senator from Ohio here in the spin room after that debate tonight, regardless of how it goes, it's a pre-planned decision for them to have the senator himself come in here, Jake.

TAPPER: All right. Interesting stuff. Kaitlan Collins, thanks so much.

Anderson?

COOPER: Jake, thanks.

With the team here in New York. Alyssa, I mean, this all the polls show that this is a tight race. The

latest CNN poll of polls shows no clear leader between, between Harris and Trump. Could this make a difference tonight?

ALYSSA FARAH GRIFFIN, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Traditionally, VP debates and vice presidents don't make a difference, but I would say an exception to that was Mike Pence and Donald Trump's first campaign in 2016. He was someone who helped him bring along evangelicals.

Now, he doesn't need that support now, but he does need somebody who can soften him with suburban women who give this answer that I hear constantly. I can't stand Donald Trump, I think he's a jerk, but my life was better under him. I might have liked his policies better.

If J.D. Vance can show up tonight and give a final touch to Trump policies. Put a little more detail on, then Trump has been capable of articulating that could be a win, but this is a man with huge unfavorabilities to overcome one of the lowest unfavorability rankings of a modern vice president right now.

So there's a lot of Americans who think of him as the person who insulted childless cat ladies. The task for him tonight is to change that into show up like a statesman.

COOPER: David, I mean, Walz -- I mean, certainly Harris may excuse me. Walz has less experience debating. I think than J.D. Vance, he certainly has been honing himself up on Sunday shows. Walz has not been doing many interviews.

DAVID AXELROD, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yeah. Look, I think that he was hired basically as Donald Trump's designated hitter, Donald Trump as a casting director, and he was convinced that he would be good on TV for him.

And this debate is obviously the most important television appearance there is and, you know, he comes in we all know having worked with Van Jones, how these Yale educated lawyers, very slick.

SCOTT JENNINGS, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Easy, easy, you're going to get trigger Walz. You're talking about Yale. He hates that Yale.

(LAUGHTER)

AXELROD: But they have very different personalities. You know, Vance is -- you know, he is a bit predatory on that debate platform. And Walz -- you know, his strength is his warmth and is his everyday-ness. Its kind of like a Labrador versus a coyote and the question is, people root for the Labrador, but can he get enough swipes and to keep the coyote often?

VAN JONES, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Look, I am -- I think J.D. Vance is dangerous to debate. First of all, you don't know which J.D. Vance you're going to get. He's such a phony that he could either be the phony Appalachia guy or he could be the kind of suck up that he was to get a job with Donald Trump. We have somebody that's high IQ, low integrity, high IQ, low empathy, high IQ, but really no willing to hurt Haitian children to get ahead. Well, it changes whole personality to get a position with Donald Trump.

That is a dangerous person for a good man to debate. Somebody who actually is going to be constrained by facts, is going to be constrained by his desire to be a unifier. So I think it's going to be a tough night for a Coach Walz to show that good guys can win even against low -- low integrity people.

COOPER: Are just trying to lower expectations?

(LAUGHTER)

COOPER: Because a lot of Democrats are when Harris --

JONES: No, no. I wouldn't want to debate somebody -- look, first of all --

AXELROD: That Yale lawyer --

[19:10:01]

JONES: Look, hey, look, I wouldn't want people like J.D. Vance who just want to get ahead no matter what, he will say anything, do anything, those people are tough to debate. I used to lose debate to them all the time, you know?

COOPER: And, Scott, there's -- the CBS poll, the V.P. picks finds Democrats are more enthusiastic about Walz. The Republicans are about Pence, 65 percent, 49 percent.

JENNINGS: I mean, look, what more do you need to know about Donald Trump? He has been running for president since 2015. He was the president. We know everything we need to know about him, which is why I don't think whether Vance wins or loses this debate is going to have a material impact.

COOPER: Do you think this debate really matters for --

JENNINGS: Look, I think it matters because look, North Carolina's underwater, Israel is under siege, the American supply chain is under threat from a thuggish rogue union boss and the American people are under the pressure that we have a void of leadership in the White House.

And what I want J.D. Vance to do tonight and what I want Tim Walz to have to explain is how is the doctrine of don't working out right now because we've had Harris and we've had Biden go on TV and tell Iran don't, and they did. And now they're running, don't down the throat of our ally. And I think I agree it is a consequential night for that reason because of everything that's going on in the world.

GRIFFIN: But I do think foreign policy may be a big part of tonight. And will I get that doesn't necessarily sway elections. We also have the war in Ukraine going on and J.D. Vance's taken this hard line stance. I don't care about Ukraine. He's advocated for not increasing or including funding going forward, Donald Trump has toyed with that.

There are major implications to this ticket winning, and I think that that is a moment that he's going to have to explain, does America first mean America alone? Does it replicate the 1920s and the 1930s? Or is it something where you can work with allies and you're going to show up. He's got some real questions to answer.

AXELROD: I think Scott is right. That that is where Vance, who is going to go and I also think China, you know, Walz has had an interesting relationship with --

JENNINGS: Oh, yeah.

AXELROD: -- China and I think he's going to go there as well, but they are surrogates for the main candidates, as you said, and they need to score points for their team, not for themselves.

COOPER: John King, what are you expecting tonight.

JOHN KING, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: This is my tenth presidential campaign, and I just want to say for the record, never in the history looking backwards as a vice presidential debate made on Election Day, a big difference. However, this could be the campaign, unlike no other, right, because its as close as it gets in this may well be the last time they were how can people get to see a debate, not between the presidential candidates, but between the vice presidential candidates.

And look at the state of this race, five weeks from tonight, we count votes, five weeks from tonight. Right now, essentially a tie for the Electoral College, 225 votes strong or likely for the vice president, 219 strong or likely for Donald Trump. You see the seven battleground states in yellow plus Nebraska's second congressional district.

Let's just take a quick look at the state of the race right here. First, the national poll of polls. Let me stretch this out. Forgive me for turning my back. If you average the five last reputable national polls 50 to 47, which means no clear leader. That's within the margin of error in a national poll. So, no clear leader heading to five weeks.

You've heard me for years. We don't pick presidents in national polls, we pick them state by state. So we look at the battleground states here, and let's pop this up and take a look.

Wisconsin, no clear leader Michigan, no clear leader. Pennsylvania, no clear leader. North Carolina, no clear leader. Georgia, no clear leader.

We don't have enough polls to have an average out in Arizona and Nevada, but there have been individual polls out there recently, Anderson that show no clear leader. Maybe Donald Trump up a little bit in Arizona. So that's where we are. So can the vice presidential candidates impact

that a race, that is closer than 2020? And I would argue even closer than 2016.

COOPER: All right. John King, thanks very much. Well be checking with you throughout the -- throughout the night.

Coming up, clues about how Tim Walz and J.D. Vance may do tonight. We'll break down their preparations and their past debate performances, as well, perhaps a lot there.

Plus, another live report from Israel on the Iranian missile attack. Much more of our special coverage ahead.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Okay, guys, we got to get off the roof. These are coming down right next to us here.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:17:52]

TAPPER: Welcome back to New York City as we count down to the only debate between the Democratic and Republican nominees for vice president, Governor Tim Walz and Senator J.D. Vance. We'll see it here live on CNN in just a few minutes.

We are we are also, of course, keeping close watch on the dire situation in the Middle East after Iran fired about 200 ballistic missiles at Israel. This was, we're told, in retaliation for the killing of Hassan Nasrallah, the leader of Hezbollah, which is an Iran backed group in Lebanon, and that the United States considers a terrorist group.

Let's go to CNN's Jeremy Diamond, who is joining us from a location on the outskirts Tel Aviv.

Jeremy, tell us what you're about to show us.

JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN JERUSALEM CORRESPONDENT: Well, Jake, we're on the outskirts of Tel Aviv, where a couple of those ballistic missiles appeared to have landed. There was an enormous crater right near where were standing. You can see behind me the mounds of dirt that just popped up from this explosion damaging this vehicle behind me, and it appears that what Iran was targeting in this area is Israel's main intelligence -- a military intelligence base, which is less than a kilometer away from here, but multiple rockets appearing to hit here. We actually have video of one of those missiles making impact in this very area where we are standing now showing the destructive power that these missiles could have.

Earlier, we were a bit south of here in Gedera, Israel, where we visited the damage of one of these missiles -- that one of these missiles apparently wrought on an elementary school, landing in the school yard right next to the second and third grade classroom, severely damage imaging that school, building.

The Israeli military is vowing tonight that they will exact serious consequences for these attacks by Iran. Some 180 ballistic missiles fired, several of them landing in central as well as in southern Israel.

The Israeli military says they were able to intercept most of those missiles. But now, Jake, certainly a region even more on edge than it already was as Israel threatens further retaliation -- Jake.

[19:20:02]

TAPPER: All right. Thanks so much.

Let's bring in two of our Middle East experts: CNN military analyst, and retired Lieutenant General Mark Hertling. Also joining us, CNN analyst Barak Ravid. He's a political and foreign policy reporter at "Axios".

General Hertling, let me start with you. So many, if not most of these missiles from Iran were intercepted but how unprecedented and dangerous is a barrage of ballistic missiles such as this, at least theoretically.

LT. GEN. MARK HERTLING (RET.), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Well, if you can take 180 plus -- 180 plus missiles, shoot them into an area and have most of them shot down, Jake. It is tribute to the Israeli Defense Forces, but its also an indicator of how important Iran sees this attack to be.

When you're talking about only ballistic missiles, they are much more difficult to be intercepted than some of the cruise missiles and the drones that they sent during the April attack on Israel. So, you know, Israel has probably used the David's sling and the Arrow missile system does shoot them down. This is not within the capability of an Iron Dome. Those are usually used for rockets and artillery shells.

So Israel has spent a lot of money tonight in shooting down those 180 missiles. In addition to the 180, what you're seeing whenever you have an air defense system, its usually going to shoot more missiles at the targets, the incoming cruise ballistic missiles, than it would the number of missiles.

So in other words, what I'm saying, in some cases you have to shoot two or even three missiles to get a target hit on an incoming ballistic missiles. So they're very good in terms of defending the area.

The other thing that I just saw, Jeremy report was it was -- it was aimed at the Mossad headquarters. I think that was in retaliation for the beeper in the walkie-talkie attacks that were conducted over a week ago.

TAPPER: And, Barak Ravid, Iran says that this was retaliation for the Israeli killings of Hassan Nasrallah and Ismail Haniyeh, among others.

But do you think that Iran and Hezbollah want a wider war? I mean, this is obviously escalatory, but they argument is being made elsewhere that they don't want a wider war. What do you think?

BARAK RAVID, CNN POLITICAL & GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: Well, Jake, Hezbollah wanted the Iran to get involved in this war already, ten bit more than ten days ago after the pager attack and after the walkie- talkie attack, and after Israel started launching attacks against Hezbollah's long-range missiles, Hezbollah went to the Iranians and told him we need your help and they really and sort of told them, well, you know, maybe next week, this week are new president is in New York and U.N. General Assembly, it's not a good time.

And we saw that what happened was a few days later, Hassan Nasrallah was assassinated by Israel. And I think that this is what pushed the Iranians over the edge and basically in this internal discussion within the Iranian leadership, you know, gave more influence to the hardliners, the IRGC see that said -- that told the supreme leader, we need to retaliate against Israel.

TAPPER: So, General Hertling both Israel and the U.S. are vowing that there will be consequences. What might like -- what might that look like do you think?

HERTLING: I think there's going to be assistance from the United States on this, on air defense, Jake. Again, the requirement to shoot down a ballistic missile requires some type of ground system to attack them. There -- it's very difficult to shoot them down with a jet.

So, you know, the United States has not only the Truman and the Lincoln battle groups in the area that not only had the aircraft carrier, but have cruisers and destroyers as well that have multiple air defense system.

So I think were going to contribute to the defense of Israel, but I really believe that Israel will likely conduct some type of attack against Iran in a very short time frame.

TAPPER: Barak, this comes as Israel has launched, what it calls a limited ground offensive into southern Lebanon. How does Israel prevent that front from spiraling with the war in Gaza approaching the one-year mark?

RAVID: Well, I think the war in Gaza, sort of, you know, it's strange to say, but in recent weeks, it took the backseat and Lebanon to the front seat and in the last 24 hours, Lebanon to the backseat and now Iran takes the front seat and who knows where this thing is going to go? Because I think we're going to see -- I don't think I know -- we're going to see a very significant Israeli attack against Iranian targets.

What I hear from Israeli officials that most likely this will include strategic facilities within Iran, including in the energy and oil sectors, something that is very important to the Iranians.

[19:25:08]

I think we will see other targets hit including Iran's air defense systems. I think it's going to be very significant that Israeli cabinet just finished a meeting an hour ago, something like that. There's still not a final decision and the reason does not a final decision is because Prime Minister Netanyahu told the ministers that he wants to coordinate first with the Biden ministration before he takes the final decisions on the targets that will be hit inside Iran.

TAPPER: All right. General Hertling, Barak Ravid, thanks to both of you. Appreciate it.

Just ahead, we're going to get back to our coverage of tonight's vice presidential debate, which you will see live right here on CNN. We just got some new information about Governor Walz's debate prep and were going to show you how the two candidates have performed in previous debates. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

TAPPER: Welcome back to CNN special coverage of the vice presidential debate between Governor Tim Walz and Senator J.D. Vance. Stay right here to see it live.

[19:30:01]

CNN's MJ Lee is also here in New York. She has new information on Governor Walz's debate preparations.

MJ, tell us what you've learned.

M.J. LEE, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Jake, of course, the governor has been hunkered down the past few days that a small resort town in northern Michigan where he has spent a good amount of time with Pete Buttigieg, of course, the transportation secretary, who has been filling in the role of J.D. Vance in these mock debates. And I'm told by a source familiar that on a range of topics and questions that the Walz team has been preparing for Pete Buttigieg had two versions of answers on the ready.

According to the source, the first version was the big audience answer. This is what they described as a common sense. We are normal. This is not scary version of the answer.

And then secondly, he would also have prepared the rally audience answer. This is more described to me as the red meat commentary that you might expect to hear from Vance or Donald Trump at their own campaign rallies. It's really geared towards riling their own base.

And the truth is that the Walz campaign will say they don't know which version of an answer J.D. Vance might give on any given topic, but the fact that they have been preparing like this for both versions really is a good reminder that the Harris campaign is pushing this narrative and doing their best to push this narrative that they believe that a Trump or Vance administration is going to be extreme, filled with fringe and extreme ideas that really are not acceptable to them. Now, I will also note that Buttigieg has not been doing the full

imitation acting, but I am told that he has tried to embrace sort of the aggressive tone and style that you often see from J.D. Vance -- Jake.

TAPPER: All right. MJ, thanks so much.

Both Governor Walz and Senator Vance have debated before, but never on such a big national, even international stage, never with such high stakes.

Let's get more on that with CNN's Jeff Zeleny.

And, Jeff, you've been looking at the vice presidential candidates past debate performances and their preparations for tonight's faceoff.

JEFF ZELENY, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Well, Jake, Tim Walz and J.D. Vance have never met before, but they've been studying the game tape of one another particularly those old debates, we have to, and I can tell you they have very different debating styles on stage and the campaign trail.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

GOV. TIM WALZ (D-MN), VICE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I can't wait to debate this guy. I cannot wait to talk about what they think.

ZELENY (voice-over): Tim Walz and J.D. Vance will meet for the first time tonight.

SEN. J.D. VANCE (R-OH), VICE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Look, the way I'm doing debate prep is by spending time with these fine people. This is how I do debate prep.

ZELENY: They're sons of the Midwest, a Minnesota governor and Ohio's senator, who've been road-testing attacks on their top of the ticket rivals.

VANCE: And the problem with Kamala Harris is that she has been the vice president for three-and-a-half years and has failed this country.

WALZ: Say it every single day, he lost the election. He's trying to lie about it and he will do so again.

I'm Tim Walz. I ask for your support.

ZELENY: Walz and Vance have also been watching each other's old debates, studying style and substance including when Vance seize the moment to break out of a crowded Senate primary fight.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Two tours in Iraq, don't tell me I've been worried.

ZELENY: That nearly came to blows.

VANCE: Think about what we just saw. This guy wants to be U.S. senator is up here, hold me back, hold me back. I got two tours in the Marine Corps, what a joke.

Answer the question. Stop playing around.

ZELENY: Vance has also been scrutinizing Walz's record as governor, hoping to paint him in, Harris as extreme and liberal while blasting Walz's folksiness as a facade.

Vance is combative, steeped in policy and striving to come across as more likable, aides say.

VANCE: I mean, yeah, we're white guys from the Midwest. I guess there are similarities there.

ZELENY: Yet he may have his hands full with the Minnesota governor who got under Trump and Vance's skin even before he joined the Democratic ticket by branding them as weird.

WALZ: These guys are creepy and yes, just weird as hell.

ZELENY: Walz does not like debating aides insist, but as plenty of them under his belt during six winning bids for Congress and two for governor.

From that first race in 2006 --

WALZ: My optimism in this country is so great.

ZELENY: His sunny cited outlook has long been a trademark. He's also known to deploy strategic flashes of anger.

WALZ: And don't you dare call us lazy.

ZELENY: But the law he signed and his overall record, including the violence after the police killing of George Floyd presents a new test.

WALZ: That's terrifying for Minnesotans in those days. Nothing like this had been seen before at the level of violence after the murder of George Floyd.

ZELENY: To help Vance prepare, he's enlisted Minnesota Republican Congressman Tom Emmer to assume the role of Walz, needling, pushing back, and forcing him to defend Trump.

REP. TOM EMMER (R-MN): He comes across as a just a folksy, friendly outdoorsman until you start peeling back the layers.

ZELENY: Transportation Secretary Pete Buttigieg has been playing Vance.

PETE BUTTIGIEG, TRANSPORTATION SECRETARY: I'm just thinking a lot about how to penetrate that veneer.

ZELENY: Putting Walz through a rigorous test to defend misstatement since about his military service occasional exaggerations and Harris's record. While vice presidential debates are intended to promote and defend their candidates at the top of the ticket, history is filled with exchanges --

[19:35:05]

SARAH PALIN, FORMER ALASKA GOVERNOR: Can I call you, Joe?

ZELENY: -- that have forever defined running mates.

FORMER SEN. LLOYD BENTSEN (D-TX): Senator, I served with Jack Kennedy. I knew Jack Kennedy. Jack Kennedy was a friend of mine. Senator, you're no Jack Kennedy.

ZELENY: Walz and Vance have studied many of those, too, hoping to avoid any such history-making moments themselves.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ZELENY (on camera): Now, one thing in the previous debates that Walz and Vance did not have was a spin room like this. Of course, they were doing the off-Broadway version of political debates.

Now, this of course is front and center here in New York on a national and international stage with five weeks left before Election Day.

Vice presidential debates don't often matter, but this one certainly could because it's the last marquee moment of this campaign, at least a scheduled one on television.

But, Jake, for all that old game tape for debates, the one that matters now is the one that's coming up tonight -- Jake.

TAPPER: All right. Jeff Zeleny, thanks so much. I really appreciate it.

Let's talk about this with my panel.

So, first of all, that Lloyd Bentsen clip from 1980 --

DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: I can't enough of that.

TAPPER: --- Lloyd -- so I just did the math in my head. I'm not strong at math, but they were closer to the 1960 election when, when Lloyd Bentsen said that in 1988, then we are to Lloyd Benson saying that.

BASH: I thought you -- I thought you were going to say that was J.D. Vance born, then?

ABBY PHILLIP, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, he was.

TAPPER: In 1988, barely.

BASH: Barely? OK.

TAPPER: Who has the -- who has the tougher -- tougher job tonight do you think? J.D. Vance or Tim Walz?

BASH: I think they both have a tough jobs, and one of the things that J.D. Vance said in Jeff's excellent piece about the fact that there are two white guys from the -- from the Midwest, I think that's really something that I'm going to be watching tonight because that is true. But they could not be more different in their approach. And their outlook on, on politics, on philosophy, on political policy everything under the sun, except that they'd both do have some populist tendencies and what they are both trying to do for the people at the top of their ticket is to try to get those Midwestern states, Pennsylvania is not in the Midwest, but there's some of Pennsylvania that has -- that sensibility back to the candidate at the top of the ticket. I mean, that was really why they each that these men were chosen.

PHILLIP: I think it's also apparent to me and J.D. Vance has a little bit of an edge on the national approach to that set of issues because in his last campaign when he ran for the Senate, part of what he was doing was he was on the receiving end of a lot of national narratives around abortion, around crime, around, you know, the economy and when you look back at that game tape -- I mean, you see somebody who didn't back away from -- by that point, he had pivoted to Trump. He had gone pretty far to the right, didn't back away from some of these far-right positions, but tried to repackage them as common sense.

And I think well see a lot of that from J.D. Vance tonight I think this is going to be tough for Tim Walz. His biggest advantage in my -- my sense of it is just sort of personality. I mean, I think that's what got him here. The whole weird thing was something that came out of his brain. That is going to be his biggest advantage tonight, yeah.

TAPPER: Let me bring in David Axelrod, who has helped to prepare people for debates, as well as helped cover debates in his previous life as a journalist.

David, what are the challenges you see for Vance and Walz tonight?

AXELROD: Well, first of all, let me just say parenthetically, that bone crushing rebuke of Bentsen two Quayle where he said, senator, you're no -- you're no Jack Kennedy, we should note that he wasn't a Jack Kennedy, but he was vice president after that debate, which tells you just how much vice presidential debates may not matter.

But they matter in the sense that if people can make the case for their -- that their candidate wants to make and what's interesting about the packages that we just heard is each candidate says they want to paint the other as extreme and I think you're going to see a lot of back.

I think that Vance is naturally better at this. He's trained for it. He kind of lives on TV right now. As I said earlier, this is his assignment.

We haven't seen Walz really do this -- do interviews very much since he became the vice presidential candidate. And now he has to stand up. He has to deal with the -- I think it will be one of the Trump people told me this is going to be a brawl. These -- I think Vance is going to go after him hard and the question is, how does he counter punch without sacrificing that sort of warmth and accessibility that has been his hallmark and has made him popular in the short run.

He's the most popular of the four candidates, partly because people think he's a nice guy. So, how does a nice guy is score points here? I think it's more challenging for him.

TAPPER: Yeah. I mean, it's -- it's an excellent point. I mean, one of the things about J.D. Vance is that Donald Trump picked him and J.D. Vance is on TV all the time. He goes on not just Fox, he goes on CNN. He goes on ABC, CBS, NBC.

Walz, David, and I just wonder what you think about this decision by the Harris campaign -- Walz, kind of auditioned for the job doing these interviews was considered by Kamala Harris and her crew to be really good, and charming and feisty and all that. That's what they thought about him.

And then he got picked I assumed as a Sunday show host. I don't know. Dana, I can't speak for you, but I thought, oh, you know, this is going to be our Democratic guest for the next eight weeks. He's really not done much at all. And obviously the last week or so he's been in debate prep, but what do you think about that decision?

AXELROD: Yeah. Listen, I think -- I could bewilder a little bit by the absence of both presidential candidate and the vice presidential candidate on television since they became the nominees because that's how people get to know you and they don't -- they haven't really spent a lot of time with either of them before now.

So I also think that it may be a little bit of a problem for Walz having not done this. You know, sitting with you guys as good prep for debates. You -- it's good batting practice for these events. Walz has not been doing it.

So I do question -- I do question that. I mean, you're right. He was all over before the -- before he became the nominee when he's campaigning for vice president, that's when he turned the word weird into kind of a thing for awhile on one of those interviews.

So it's bewildering to me why he has been out there more and I think that that Harris to benefit from just being out there more.

TAPPER: All right. David, thanks so much.

Coming up, we're going to check in with our focus group of undecided voters. What's on their mind as they look ahead to tonight's vice presidential debate? You can see it all right here on CNN.

But, first, the former U.S. ambassador to Israel joins us. We're going to get his thoughts on the Iranian missile attack against Israel just a few hours ago.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:46:28]

COOPER: We are closing in on the first and only vice-presidential debate. The two candidates that are J.D. Vance and Governor Tim Walz now just over an hour away from facing off here in New York, that critically important showdown.

Of course, tonight's event is happening amid the backdrop of Iran's massive missile barrage against Israel.

Right now, CNN's Kristen Holmes is joining us with details, and Senator Vance and his strategy tonight.

Kristen, what can you tell us?

KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yeah. Anderson. Well, when it comes to those Iranian strikes in Israel, we are told that Vance has been preparing for this response. He is likely to take on Donald Trump's stance on this, which is that nothing -- none of this would have ever happened had Donald Trumps still been in office, particularly talking about Iran not striking Israel, not making any attacks because they were broke from sanctions.

Obviously, this is something Trump has said over and over again without any evidence that Iran wouldn't do this. But the real issue here for J.D. Vance as he takes the stage, as this has to be an opportunity. One of the only opportunities he has to prove that he was the right pick to be the vice presidential nominee.

He has had a rocky rollout. Polling shows that he is underwater when it comes to public opinion. And one of the reasons that Donald Trump chose J.D. Vance was because he was good at debating. He watched him in 2022.

Now we're told the two of them spoke on the phone earlier today, just now and Wisconsin at his press conference, he was asked he being Donald Trump, what he said to J.D. Vance in that phone call conversation, he said he told him to have fun -- Anderson.

COOPER: All right. Kristen, thanks very much.

Joining me to talk about the conflict in the Middle East is the former U.S. ambassador to Israel, Tom Nides. I want to disclose, he's also married to a CNN executive.

Thanks for being with us.

How critical is this moment right now, the U.S. is saying this was twice the size in terms of the number of ballistic missiles fired at Israel as the last attack by Iran in April?

TOM NIDES, FORMER U.S. AMBASSADOR TO ISRAEL: Well, listen, Anderson, it's -- it's quite serious, but I think we need to also step back and put this in perspective. We're about a few days away from one-year anniversary of the worst terrorist attack in Israel's history, 1,400 Jews got killed that day, and still 50 or 60 Israelis and Arabs are also sitting in tunnels in Gaza. I mean, I thought these hostage families every day, and they're waiting for them to come out.

In the same time, over the last year, Hezbollah has been firing rockets into Israel in the north. Every single day and 100,000 Israelis had to leave the north to go to Tel Aviv.

That said today's rocket barrage was sort of a disaster for Iran to some extent because not only because the United States support of the state of Israel and Israel's ability to knock these out of the sky. And so I think from -- from Iran's perspective, it certainly wasn't a great day for them and for Israel.

Obviously, they showed with Israel, with American support what stand together with Israel means which is basically stopping Iran from doing what they're doing and I think it's really important.

COOPER: I mean, the real question is, what is the next step enough to former Prime Minister Naftali Bennett was just on -- talking to Wolf Blitzer. He's saying now is the moment for Israel to strike nuclear facilities, energy facilities, the Iranian regime himself -- itself. There's a lot of, I mean, a lot of members of the Israeli government probably are arguing the same thing right now tonight.

NIDES: Listen, I -- again --

COOPER: What would a strike on the nuclear facilities --

NIDES: I'm not going to speculate about what Israel may or may not want or plan to do. I can tell you one thing, I have had many conversations with the Biden-Harris administration today. They're spending every single moment working on this, working with Israel, working on not only to solve what happened today with 180 rockets, but working with Israel on what may come next.

[19:50:02]

And clearly, this is something that the Biden-Harris administration cares deeply about. Obviously, they're not interested in escalating this war. We have a lot of our own resources and in the -- as you know.

COOPER: But the U.S. hasn't been informed. It seems like on a number of actions that Israel is taken of late the assassination of the leader of Hezbollah, the ground operation into southern Lebanon, how much would the Biden administration know about an Israeli response against Iran?

NIDES: Listen, I -- again, I'm obviously not in the Situation Room right now as Jake Sullivan is, as the president is, the vice president who's heavily engaged in this. They're in constant contact.

I know that the secretary defense has been on the phone with the minister of defense in Israel. One thing Israel knows is we got their back. Now, again, how this all unfolds that next 24, 48 hours is basically the decision is going to have to be done by the Israelis and working with the Americans.

COOPER: There's certainly though in Israel, among members of the government, there, Netanyahu and others a desire to have a stronger response certainly than it was the response in April, the Israeli response then was, you know, symbolic -- I guess you could, send a missile toward an area that's near a nuclear facility, sort of sending a message we could do to worse. If this was twice the size of the last attack by Iran, do you anticipate a larger response by Israel?

NIDES: Listen, Anderson, again is what I want when I started my conversation with you, I tried to put this in context for the American people to understand what Israel's going through, and we understand that. I mean I think both Biden and Harris have been unbelievably focused on making sure we protect Israel because no country should be going through what Israel's going through.

I mean, what they've gone through in Gaza, what they're going through with Hezbollah, what they've gone through with Lebanon, what they're going through with Syria, what they've gone through with the Houthis, no one should be going through this.

That said, it has been the position of this administration that we do not want it all out regional war. I don't think any of us want that. And again, we have a lot of American resources on the ground. We have American troops around the Middle East and Iraq, first foremost, is to protect those American forces. And I think that's President Biden and Vice President Harris's full focus today.

COOPER: All right. Well, Ambassador Nides, appreciate your time.

NIDES: Thank you very much.

COOPER: Tom Nides.

Just ahead, we'll turn back to the vice presidential debate and take a closer look at the rules the candidates have agreed to follow.

Plus, our focus group of undecided voters standing by to give us their thoughts in the face off.

It's all coming up here on CNN right after a quick break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:55:30]

TAPPER: You are watching CNN's special coverage of the vice presidential debate live from New York. It is a potentially pivotal moment in the case campaign as Minnesota Governor Tim Walz and Ohio Senator J.D. Vance prepare for a showdown that could change the course of an extremely tight race, perhaps the tightest in modern history.

We expect both candidates to make a strong play tonight for voters who have yet to make up their minds and we have in fact a focus group of undecided voters standing by in Grand Rapids, Michigan, a battleground state. We're going to check in with him in just a moment.

But first let's go to John King.

John, tell us about Kent County in the Grand Rapids area?

KING: Well, Jake, we know Michigan is a battleground. All things being equal, Democrats turn out their base, Republicans turn out their base. Well, this race be settled in the American suburbs, right?

So here's grand rapids, here's Kent County, bring it out. You notice in 2020, it's blue. Joe Biden won this county with 52 percent of the vote. We'll go back to 2016.

Donald Trump carried Michigan and he carried Kent County, just barely, 48 percent to 45 percent. So why is this so important? This election might well be settled in the suburbs just like 2020 was. Donald Trump carried Michigan in 2016. Joe Biden did here. Grand Rapids, it's the home of Gerald Ford used to be reliably Republican, but it is part of the America, one of the places we saw in 2020, the suburbs revolt against Donald Trump.

This is one of the places it played out. Can he improve in the suburbs, in 2024, if the answer is yes, he might win the race.

TAPPER: All alright. Thanks so much.

Let's go now to Grand Rapids, Michigan, where we find our own CNN's Phil Mattingly, standing by with our focus group.

Phil, have you told them that you went to Ohio State? Just joking, fell. Phil, what's on the mind of these undecided voters?

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN CHIEF DOMESTIC AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, I'm trying to knowledge that publicly. I don't acknowledge the Ohio State thing when I'm in this state.

Look, I think John makes the key point here, right? We are in Kent County. This is a suburb heavy area. This is an area that will be clear battleground.

It's also an area with a lot of younger voters. What were going to see, what the group this behind me tonight is they will each have dials.

They have told us they are undecided voters. Some of them have voted for Republicans in the past, some have voted for Democrats. A number of them have never voted at all. This will be their first election.

With their dials, if they feel positive about whatever they're seeing or hearing at any given moment during the 90-minute debate, they will turn the dial to the right. We will be the tracking that. If they feel like something negative is going on, they will turn it to the left. We'll be watching throughout the course of the 90 minutes of that debate. Get a read on what moments are critical for these undecided voters. What may help them make up their minds in the lead up to November.

Now, I do want to talk to a couple of these voters beforehand because I think one of the big questions I want to start with Hope, who is a freshman in college? This will be the first election that she's ever voted for. Future president the United States, or at least one of the candidates.

And Hope at this moment in time, I think a lot of people are asking, how could you be undecided in October of an election with these two candidates? Why -- why are you in this place right now?

HOPE, UNDECIDED MICHIGAN VOTER: I would say I'm undecided because I agree with a lot of policies on both sides, but probably more on the Republican side. However, I have a problem like trusting Donald Trump based on his previous remarks and comments in his previous performance in office.

MATTINGLY: What is the -- so what are things you're going to be watching tonight that will help you make up your mind, maybe even tonight?

HOPE: I'm just really hoping to hear a lot more on specific policy ideas and less like zingers and personal attacks.

MATTINGLY: Ryan, I would start with the same question to you. It's October. I think a lot of people know a lot about -- at least one of these candidates, newer candidate on the Democratic side.

Why aren't you there yet on a decision one way or the other?

RYAN, UNDECIDED MICHIGAN VOTER: Well, you know, I think specifically for me, it's -- just, you know, when Joe Biden dropped out of the race and Kamala Harris came in, you know, I don't know if she's done enough to sort of split herself from Biden, but also, I don't know if I'm entirely the biggest fan of Donald Trump.

MATTINGLY: Can I ask you? This is also your first election as well. How -- is there weight with that? Is there pressure do you feel at this moment?

RYAN: I mean, certainly, I'm nervous, you know? You would expect in the first election, you've voted in that you'd feel confident, but I feel a little nervous to be frank.

MATTINGLY: Do you feel like tonight will help you decide?

RYAN: You know, I think it will, you know? A good president has a good vice president and if Mr. Walz or Mr. Vance can, you know, really show they're showing really, I think it could turn my -- it could turn the dial red or blue.

MATTINGLY: It's going to be a great question. I think all of the people hit there on this focus group, Jake. We'll be paying attention to throughout the course of the 90 minutes, undecided voters in October. The clock is obviously ticking down, and the young voters that both campaigns desperately want to come out for them will be watching them, seeing how they feel about the specific moments.

And then we'll be talking to them after the debate.