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Erin Burnett Outfront
U.S.: Israel Has Not Ruled Out Targeting Iran's Nuclear Sites; Now: Trump Holding NC Event, Harris Slams Trump In Michigan; Trump Hits Biden For Saying Israel Should Avoid Iran's Nuke Sites. Aired 7- 8p ET
Aired October 04, 2024 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[19:00:47]
ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST: OUTFRONT next, live from Tel Aviv.
The breaking news: in the dark. A top State Department official telling CNN the Biden administration has been given no assurances from Israel that it will not target Iran's nuclear facilities, as concerns grow tonight that Israel could launch a devastating retaliatory strike against Iran any moment.
Plus, warning of violence. President Biden tonight saying he's concerned that the upcoming election won't be peaceful.
And playing nice. Former President Trump appearing next to the very popular governor that he wants called a bad, disloyal guy. What's he saying now?
Let's go OUTFRONT
And good Friday evening. I'm Erin Burnett live from Tel Aviv.
And OUTFRONT tonight, the breaking news: in the dark. CNN is learning tonight that the U.S. is in the dark as to whether Israel plans to strike Iran's nuclear facilities as a top U.S. State Department official tells CNN, quote, this is on the edge.
That top official telling us exclusively that Israelis are so far keeping their plans to retaliate, which could happen at any moment extremely close to the vest, saying, quote, we hope and expect to see some wisdom as well as strength. But as you guys know, no guarantees.
Well, Israel is at war and more strikes against Tehran could change the arc of history. I mean, these are many of Iran's known and most important nuclear sites, places where the country assembles and spin centrifuges, enriches nuclear weapons grade uranium, and stores that highly enriched uranium, often hundreds of feet under the ground, striking any of them could have massive and unstoppable consequences.
And that is why President Biden has said publicly he does not support Israel targeting Iran's nuclear program. But today, he went even further than saying no nukes. He actually tried to take energy and oil off the table.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: If I were in their shoes, I'd be thinking about other alternatives than striking oil fields.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: But those words at the moment appeared to be falling on some deaf ears.
I mean, again, that top State Department official says Israel has not sharing its plans close to the vest, even with its closest ally and the country which will be called upon to defend Israel and deal with the consequences the United States, this isn't a war far away from the U.S. not even now. It isn't just that it could spread with disastrous consequences. It is also that tonight as we speak, American troops' lives are on the line. There are 40,000 in the Middle East where we are right now, and they are targets right now.
Just listen to the chants that broke out when the Ayatollah Ali Khamenei was leading Friday prayers in Tehran today before tens of thousands of people.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CROWD: Death to America. Death to America. Death to America.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Chants we, of course, have heard ourselves in Tehran, tens of thousands of people though chanting it now, that is the tone and the mood, the Iranian supreme leader in that rare address today, pounding the war drums and he praised the October 7 terrorist attack on Israel. It's one thing he did. He backed further strikes from Tehran on Tel Aviv, like the one days ago here. And as the situation is, quote, on the edge, Israel tonight is also pounding the drums, continuing to bombard the 2.5 million person city of Beirut, a city home to half the population of Lebanon.
And that's where we want to begin tonight with Ben Wedeman. He is there.
And, Ben, you have been seeing and hearing and experiencing the being under siege, the worry and the fear that so many there have. I know there was a strike in southern Beirut just a short time ago. What is happening there and what are you expecting in these next hours?
BEN WEDEMAN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Erin, within the last hour and ten minutes, we've had two warnings from the Arabic spokesman for the Israeli military published on Twitter or X, and the following, just a few minutes later, one of those strikes happened on the southern suburbs of Beirut, and another happened a few minutes later and now we are waiting for the other shoe to drop for the strike to follow the latest warning. It came in just about ten minutes ago.
[19:05:03]
And this has been the pattern night after night.
Now, I was in the southern suburbs the other day. I can tell you most of the inhabitants have already evacuated. There's still a lot of young men whose really task is just to keep an eye on peoples apartments and houses and whatnot.
But what were seeing is that Hezbollah, when I went to the southern suburbs, they were actually conducting a tour of various strike sites where Israelis had hit. And I spoke to one of their senior spokesman and he told me that despite the recent assassinations of Hassan Nasrallah and so many other senior officials that they still have all of their missile arsenal intact, he said they still have their leadership intact. We don't know who that leadership is at this point because they haven't officially announced new leader.
But what we are seeing is that despite several days of intense Israeli strikes on the south of Lebanon, that Hezbollah is still functioning there. They're still firing rockets into Israel and their fighters on the ground who are experienced a guerrilla fighters who fought the Israelis in the 2006 war, they fought in Syria alongside the regime of Bashar al Assad, they are putting up some stiff resistance against the Israelis.
And we are hearing initial reports that there are more clashes on the border this evening apparently, what's being described as a serious incident down there. We don't have the details yet, but certainly indicates that Hezbollah, despite taking a beating is certainly still able to give some back to Israel -- Erin.
BURNETT: All right. Ben Wedeman, thank you very much, in Beirut an exhausted city, where are you getting warnings just to be clear, everybody, it's 2:00 in the morning. So, if you're looking at Twitter for warning saying to evacuate, you can understand the situation and how difficult that is where Ben is.
Jim Sciutto is with me here in Tel Aviv, obviously, south of Beirut, General Mark Hertling also joins us.
So, Jim, let me just start with you.
When we talk about this imminent strike that. Israel is determining its targets and keeping very close to the vest even from its closest ally, there are a lot of strikes -- possible strikes that Israel could hit inside Iran, nuclear strike -- nuclear locations oil installations, the actual regime itself, which a lot of people in this country have been pounding the table saying this is our moment to behead the monster as they see it.
Can you walk us through what these targets could be?
JIM SCIUTTO, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Let's go perhaps a combination, right, of some of these targets. Let's begin with nuclear and there are multiple nuclear sites around there, around Iran. And by the way, that's deliberate because they don't want them all in one place because they don't want it easy to be taken out, their facilities to be taken out in one blow. Let's zero in on one of them in particular, Isfahan, khan this is a
nuclear research facility production facility. Isfahan, the central part of Iran, they produce uranium metal, key to the production of nuclear warheads, if Iran were to go that path, also centrifuge parts, what you need to produce the uranium -- enriched uranium to produce a nuclear weapon.
What's notable about this is that in April, following Iran's last major missile barrage on Israel, when Israel did retaliate, it was Isfahan, not the nuclear site, but a air defense installation around Isfahan that was Israel's retaliation at that point. And that was deliberate because they were showing we can reach out and touch you there.
BURNETT: Right.
SCIUTTO: In the event that we were to decide that --
BURNETT: And it's a big place, but we can be very specific. So to show that point, they can -- they can pick and choose within that location.
SCIUTTO: And they have the range to do so. And by the way, to carry out an attack on a site like that, you would have to take out the air defenses first.
Another option is to go after oil -- oil facilities, oil refineries, et cetera. I want to talk about one in particularly that is Kharg Island. Kharg is an oil export facility. This is where 90 percent of Iran's oil is exported through here. So this would be an enormous blow to what is Iran's number one source of revenue.
Iran sends out about 3 percent of world's oil. That's 2 million barrels of oil a day. It's not the entire market to sliver of the market, but you know, oil markets well. If you take out that percentage, that's going to have an impact on oil prices. So, so certainly an impact on, on world oil markets, but also potentially the world economy, and the U.S. economy.
BURNETT: Right, and both of those sorts of strikes would certainly move the line forward and change the game in terms of what's on the table. And you talk about escalation.
And, General Hertling, that's the big question was if you're Prime Minister Netanyahu and his war cabinet tonight making these -- these final decisions, what do you do for targets like Jim just laid out? What kind of force -- what kind of weaponry will Israel use in these potential strikes?
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MARK HERTLING, CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Well, first of all, Erin, you have to look at the target package and Jim and I talked about this earlier today.
What will Israel go after? There are a variety of target packages, you've named a couple. I would name a couple more about weapon construction facilities, places where they build ballistic missiles and even the drones that are becoming so prevalent. And not only the attacks on Israel, but also the sale of drones by Iran to Russia for the attacks on Ukraine.
Would it be hurtful to Ukraine to not worry so much about the energy production facilities, but in fact a hit their main weapons facilities to places that build the weapons and that's why its think that the president said what he said today. You know, you can hit an energy facility, either oil or a nuclear power plant, or some of the other storage facilities that Iran has, but what would be more damaging in terms of Iranian potential in the future?
Their two main proxy groups, Hamas and Hezbollah, have been very damaged. You know, you base -- the Israelis have basically destroyed Hamas. They've taken out 20, 25 of 27 battalions in the Gaza Strip. They're now going after Hezbollah. They know they have a lot of missiles there. They don't want the resupply of those weapons.
So when you get back to your question was, what would the strike package look like? It depends. It depends on what they're going after. If its weapons facilities, those are strike fighters going in with a lot more than just aircraft that are dropping bombs, you have to have fuels, you have to have intelligence gathers, jammers and electronic warfare aircraft to pave the path for a bunch of fighters to go in and bomb the locations you're talking about.
And depending on the target, if it's a soft target, if you will, like Jim said, Kharg Island, it's very easy to bomb a storage plant or a storage facility for oil, it's much tougher to strike some of the nuclear capabilities that Iran has had in the past because they are mostly deeply buried in the mountains and they are very well spread apart. It takes a much bigger package.
BURNETT: Right. I mean, and that's -- that's the thing. All this has to be planned out, right? It isn't just, you know, what Iran did that when they fired the missiles here was you know, pick a missile package, put your targets and go, I'm not saying that's simple, but Israel is going to be combination of different fighters in different planes and different bombs and different missiles. I mean, it's a more complicated project.
SCIUTTO: And putting those flight crews at risk as well, right? Well, as you got to get those assets there and get him back safely. So, there's that factor.
BURNETT: Right. Now, when you talk about oil facilities, nuclear facilities, there's also, Ben, and we referenced this, a lot of talk in this country about what they believe is a once in a generational or more opportunity to take out the leadership of Iran for regime change. They've shown they can do it with Hezbollah. They've shown they can do it with Hamas. And they want to do it with the leadership of the Iranian government itself.
SCIUTTO: And that's, of course, the most extreme option would be regime change and by the way, part of a public discussion in this country, whether the leadership decides to go that way, that's certainly part of the public discussion here. But, but there were options short of regime change, which has not even clear they could accomplish, which would be to go after military command and control, specifically the IRGC, the Iran Revolutionary Guard Corps, which is essentially the regime's military arm, right? And this is one of the --
BURNETT: Right in Tehran.
SCIUTTO: Headquarters, right, in Tehran.
BURNETT: Yeah.
SCIUTTO: A heavily populated area. But, of course, Israel has not hesitated to go after targets inside heavily populated areas. We're seeing in Beirut now, we've certainly seen it in Gaza.
And one could make a connection here if you're Israel to the attacks that took place a couple of days ago here, that that center is it is a command and control center for those very strikes. So you could draw a direct line between the strikes on Tuesday and that as a potential retaliatory strike.
BURNETT: Right, incredible, though, a strike within in the heart of Tehran itself and certainly something they're capable of doing, but again completely changing the game.
General in that context, the top State Department official today telling CNN that Israel's not assuring the U.S. they wont strike nukes, that they're keeping their plans close to the vest. Obviously, the U.S. is on the hook for whatever Israel does for the repercussions of it, the U.S. is expected to be there.
Are you surprised that they're not more sharing? Does it say anything to you at this point that there is not?
HERTLING: It does say something to me, Erin, and it says to me that our allies are being increasingly wary of sharing intelligence with some of the officials in government. And it's not just the United States. It's across world. Operational security is critically important in these kind of strikes. So, as soon as you tell someone the potential of a leak that would damage the potential for targeting just rises exponentially.
[19:15:00]
And I think that's what a lot of our allies are doing. You know, we've seen the Ukrainians go into Kursk. They didn't tell people whether they're going. We've seen strikes inside of Beirut by the Israelis and then now the incursion and then the southern Beirut. It's just probably best if military plans and operations are not shared by governments with other governments until you really have a trustful eye.
I believed that there are some in our government that know exactly what's going on and they have inside information, but they're certainly not sharing it with others. BURNETT: All right. Thank you both very much.
Obviously, as that top official said, on the edge tonight here.
And next, Trump has never been shy about his feelings regarding the governor of Georgia.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT & 2024 PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: He's a coward. He's a bad guy. He is a disloyal guy.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: So, what is Trump now doing, potentially hand in hand with Brian Kemp?
Plus, a CNN investigation tonight, and how Tim Walz handled multiple fraud scandals, including the largest COVID-19 fraud scheme in the nation, a special OUTFRONT investigation.
Plus, President Biden tonight revealing new details about Harris's role when it comes to the growing crisis here in the Middle East.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
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BURNETT: You're looking at live pictures. This is Fayetteville, North Carolina. That's where former President Trump right now is taking questions from voters at town hall.
And as he speaks, Vice President Harris earlier today, slammed him at her own event, which was in the must-win state of Michigan that was just a couple of moments ago. Here's Kamala Harris.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KAMALA HARRIS, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES & 2024 PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Donald Trump makes vague promises and he always fails to deliver. America lost nearly 200,000 manufacturing jobs when he was president, making Donald Trump one of the biggest losers of manufacturing jobs in American history.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Large crowd there for the vice president.
Steve Contorno is OUTFRONT at Trump's town hall right now. So Steve what have you been learning?
STEVE CONTORNO, CNN REPORTER: Erin, we are just down the road from Fort Liberty, which is the largest military installation in the world. So, tonight's event is full of service members and military families and veterans. And the program has been focused on a lot of their issues, their concerns. In fact, the first thing that former president did upon taking the
stage here is promising to change the name of Fort Liberty back to Fort Bragg named after a confederate general. And he has talked a lot about other military issues and he has said that he would build an Iron Dome like Israel has over the United States and would allow people back into the military who left over the COVID vaccine.
Of course, we're also in a state that has been deeply affected by the hurricane and Donald Trump continues to bash the administration's response. Take a listen to what he said earlier this evening.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Kamala should be here. She shouldn't be anywhere else. They've given you lousy treatment in North Carolina, in particular, and we don't like that, so we're going to let it be known. Then they have to get a lot better.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CONTORNO: Now, I will point out that Harris will be in western North Carolina tomorrow surveying the damage there. And I also point out, Erin, that Donald Trump earlier today was in Georgia with the governor there, Brian Kemp, and that was their first appearance together since 2020. And as Donald Trump bashed the administration over their response to who the hurricane, Brian Kemp had no bad words to say about Joe Biden or Vice President Harris.
BURNETT: All right. Steve, thank you very much.
Steve, of course, right now with the former president at that town hall.
All right, everyone is with me now.
Maria Cardona, let me just start with you because you heard the vice president speaking at her own rally in Michigan, right. So targeting these crucial must-win states, whether it's North Carolina or Georgia, or Michigan, Wisconsin, this is where they're spending their time, Pennsylvania. So, Maria what -- she's focusing your time right now was talking a lot about the economy, is that what she should be doing? Focusing in on policy that's an area she's gained ground, but still lags Trump from?
MARIA CARDONA, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Absolutely, Erin. And you hit the nail on the head. She's gaining ground. She's closing the gap which means that her policies and her messaging are getting through to the exact voters that she needs to gain. These are people who didn't really know her all that well, didn't know her biography. And were the ones who wanted to hear more specific on policies.
Well, that's exactly what she's giving them. She's giving them specific policies as to what she is going to be doing every single day during her administration to help middle-class families, working class families, as she always says, not just get by, but get ahead, to expand their economic opportunities in opportunity economy. And importantly, she's making the contrast with Donald Trump, who
speaks a good game, but his record is a complete and total failure. I think it was very smart of her to point out those specifics in Michigan where six plants close auto-making plants closed while Donald Trump was president.
So that contrast between somebody who talks bluster and fearmongering and retribution but delivers nothing instead of her who's going to be focused on actual policies and delivering to middle-class and working class families, I think that's working for her.
BURNETT: Okay. All right. So, Astead, you know, a lot of this is about getting your base out to vote at this point, right, and regardless of what they're saying and who is going to do, what about what policies are they're actually going to put forward that there. Go ahead with that. They're putting forth. It's about firing people up and Harris was has a lot of energy on the campaign trail. She had a lot energy today.
Here's how she finished her speech to voters in Michigan.
[19:25:03]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HARRIS: Are you ready to make your voices heard? Do we believe in freedom? Do we believe in opportunity? Do we believe in a promise of America? And are we ready to fight for it?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Astead, when you look at Harris, and you look at Trump and you look at their bases, right, we know the base is fully supportive to the candidates, but which base right now, as you can tell from the polling, from what's out there, which base is more fired up if turnout is going to be higher?
ASTEAD HERNDON, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST; I think there are a lot of good signs for Democrats when it comes to the kind of consolidation of their base over the last several months. This has been the big impact of the switch from Biden to Harris is a short up the Democratic coalition and has given them good signs and a lot of the places that they were lagging.
But I think it's a hard question to answer because this is the reality the of a 50-50 tied race, it is going to be about the execution of who gets their base out. And I would also say that the Harris base is composited of voters who vote more frequently, or we know more consistently, come to polling than I think the Trump base is.
They're targeting more low propensity voters. They're targeting young men who don't oftentimes come out the same numbers as other groups. They're trying to target people who may only participate in presidential elections. And that's a little bit of a harder task than what the Harris what the Harris coalition looks like. So I think that's the reason why although we expect these battleground
states to come down to one or two points, a lot of our modeling shows Harris having a slight advantage. It's just a make-up of the electorate that she is looking for. It's one that we know comes out most clearly. That's the impact of Trump losing out on the suburbs. That's the impact of Trump kind of having a coalition of people who has been steadfast against him.
The question for him is can he change the electorate to bring out people who are only more likely to vote for him?
BURNETT: Right. So, Governor Pawlenty, there's a big, a big question for the former president, right? And so he -- he used to do things. He didn't care if he even said things that upset his base because it didn't matter, right?
So, for example, the Georgia Governor Brian Kemp, that he said he was disloyal and terrible and a loser and all these kinds of things, right? But now, today, he is down there appearing with him first time since the, you know, Trump tried to get that at one extra vote in Georgia four years ago. This is the first time they were together.
And all that stuff about being disloyal, bad guy turncoat, coward disaster that is not what we heard today. This is what we heard today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOV. BRIAN KEMP (R), GEORGIA: I want to thank President Trump for coming back to our state again for the second time to view storm damage and keep a national focus on our state as we recover.
TRUMP: Brian, thank you very much. You governor is doing a fantastic job, I will tell you that.
REPORTER: What is your relationship like now with Governor Kemp?
TRUMP: It's great. No, no, no, it's great. Now, we work together. We've always worked together very well.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Governor Pawlenty, my question to you is just a very simple one. Everybody who likes Kemp in Georgia where he is very popular, knows that Trump has said well, these horrible things about him. They all know it, okay. And then they all see this today.
So they understand this is political expediency at some level, does it matter? I mean, is this going to work for Trump or is it too little too late?
TIM PAWLENTY (R), FORMER MINNESOTA GOVERNOR: Well, Erin, if flip- flopping or changing positions were disqualifying factor for candidates, we'd have no one to serve in Congress and no one to run for president or vice president. So let's be clear about that.
This is just one example of political expediency all over the board. But it unfolds in the context of a crisis post-hurricane, where genuinely Governor Kemp needs help and empathy and understanding from national leaders, including former President Trump. And so those comments I think in that context were real.
But let's not kid ourselves. Vice President Harris has flip-flopped on a bunch of important stuff. Most of them do. And it's just what they do. They're politicians
BURNETT: Well, OK, I think we can all acknowledge that. You know, but of course, when it's about a person and it's personal, you know, people care about people. People remember those things and can be very specific. I mean, you know, Maria, it's one thing to say that maybe people, the Trump -- the Trump base won't, by this sudden love of camp. Or maybe they will, maybe they wont, but it's interesting. I think you believe that this could actually be bad for Trump, that it actually could hurt him to now have been so friendly to camp.
How come why would that be?
CARDONA: Well, well, first of all, let me just say, there's no both- sides-ing this issue. I'm sorry. There is no one that flip-flops on a personal level like Donald Trump. He is saying these great things about Governor Kemp today. I wouldn't be surprised if tomorrow he is back at calling him a coward and a trader if he doesn't think that Governor Kemp is doing what Donald Trump wants him to do.
[19:30:03]
There is no one at that stratospheric level of not just flip-flop but of utter insulting and using people for their own self-interests. So I had to underscore that.
But to your point, Erin -- I do think -- to your point, I do think that when Donald Trump is talking about how much he loves Governor Kemp, people see through that. Now, let's be very clear. Nothing will change with his base, right? He was very clear from the beginning. He could go shoot somebody on Fifth Avenue and his base will never leave him.
But Georgia and all of these other swing states have people that he needs to bring into the tent but he is not doing. He is not going to bring in independent suburban voters. He's not going to bring in people who are undecided, okay. With the kind of hypocrisy that he is using now towards Governor Kemp.
BURNETT: Governor?
PAWLENTY: Yeah, I mean, it's nonsense. I mean, you look at Vice President Harris's comments over the arc of time, including implying presidential debate in '20 last time, they ran when Biden and her were on the stage together, implying President Biden might be racially insensitive and then it turns out to be his vice president. So that's a bunch of B.S.
CARDONA: Come on, Governor. It's not the same thing. It's absolutely not the same thing. And you know it. PAWLENTY: Oh, go back and look her record --
(CROSSTALK)
BURNETT: I think it's more than buying and racially insensitive it there. Yeah.
All right. I'm going to leave it there, all of you, thank you very much. I appreciate it.
And next, Minnesota Governor Tim Walz tonight defending his handling of multiple fraud scandals under his watch. This is a special CNN investigation and it is next.
Plus, Vice President Kamala Harris wants to be the change candidate, but is that message working? A special conversation tonight with James Carville.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:35:53]
BURNETT: Tonight, the Harris campaign attacking J.D. Vance for appearing with Marjorie Taylor Greene of Georgia today as she faces widespread criticism for her latest conspiracy theory. The congresswoman posting this as the death toll from Hurricane Helene now rises to at least 213 lives lost, saying, quote, yes, they can control the weather. It's ridiculous for anyone to lie and say it can't be done, right, implying that, you know, there was a plan to do this with a hurricane.
Just an hour after that post, Vance had these glowing words mine.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. J.D. VANCE (R-OH), VICE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: She's been a great friend of mine. She's a loyal person and you guys have a hell of congresswoman here in Marjorie.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Well, this comes as we have an OUTFRONT investigation tonight about Governor Tim Walz looking at the criticism that he is facing for his handling of multiple fraud scandals in Minnesota under his watch.
Kyung Lah is OUTFRONT.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KYUNG LAH, CNN SENIOR INVESTIGATIVE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): At the Minnesota state fair, every spin of the wheel at the Never Walz booth is a loser for the Democratic governor.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I never want to see do that man in office.
LAH: It's not just partisan wedge issues driving Republican disdain for Tim Walz. Step around the corner to the Minnesota Republican Party booth --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All about national politics at the booth.
LAH: -- Republican State Senator Mark Koran, like the rest of the country is, eyeing the presidential election, but with the Minnesota governor in his sights.
STATE SEN. MARK KORAN (R), MINNESOTA: I think Governor Walz, if you might say about accountability, has taken no accountability.
LAH: Koran says, while national voters may just be learning about Coach Walz and his the affection for football and home improvement, here in Minnesota. The news has been more critical, especially around the way Walz's administration handled financial scandals.
At least 16 reports critical of specific state agencies for allowing alleged fraud, waste, or mismanagement during Walz's six years as governor had been published by Minnesota's independent auditor.
KORAN: He is the executive body in charge, right? And can you blame them individually for each individual thing? No. But he took absolutely no action to change the outcome. There was nobody that was terminated because of the failures of those agencies.
LAH: Lisa Demuth is a Republican minority leader in the Minnesota state legislature.
LISA DEMUTH, MINNESOTA REPUBLICAN HOUSE MINORITY LEADER: We have an issue of fraud here in the state of Minnesota that we have half a billion dollars in known fraud under Governor Walz's time in office.
LAH: And you're talking about Feeding Our Future.
DEMUTH: That's one of them. Yeah.
LAH: Feeding Our Future, a program overseen by Minnesota's Department of Education was the single largest COVID-19 fraud scheme in the nation, according to the Department of Justice, nearly $250 million in federal tax dollars was supposed to go to feeding children in need. Instead dozens of people involved in the scheme stole the money, buying houses, luxury cars, and a suburban bar and restaurant according to a federal indictment.
At the time, Governor Walz defended his administration.
GOV. TIM WALZ (D-MN), VICE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We caught this fraud. We caught it very early. We alerted the right people this past June, the state legislative auditors investigation found that the Minnesota Department of Education's actions and inactions created opportunities for fraud, failed to act on warning signs and did not effectively exercise its authority to hold Feeding Our Future accountable.
Is that fraud the governor's fault?
DEMUTH: When he is not holding any commissioners responsible, then yes. Governor Walz is responsible for the fraud that has been ongoing in the state of Minnesota, by not making any changes within his administration, then yes, it falls squarely on his shoulders.
LAH: National Republicans now sense a political vulnerability in the Democratic ticket. Earlier this month, a Republican-led House committee issued a subpoena demanding Walz produced documents on the Feeding Our Future fraud. It will be a test carefully watched in Walz's home state.
Blois Olson is a Minnesota political analyst who has covered nearly three decades of governors and moderated Waltz's gubernatorial debate.
BLOIS OLSON, POLITICAL ANALYST: I know both of these gentlemen pretty well.
There's been further audits that show that this isn't the only place in state government where there's fraud. Like is he interested in the seriousness of running state government and being accountable, or is he more interested in, you know, being popular?
LAH: In his nearly six years as governor, Walz has gone from prairie populist --
WALZ: We're catching fish now.
LAH: -- to managing the pandemic --
WALZ: Contact tracing.
LAH: -- to now running for the second highest office in the U.S.
WALZ: When we fight, we win!
LAH: Such a meteoric rise that Olson recently wrote, is Walz really ready?
WALZ: I would be honored, Madam Vice President.
OLSON: Ultimately, he's the decider as the governor of the state of Minnesota. And there's no clear evidence how he makes his decisions. But there is a track record of not being decisive in the critical moments of governing.
LAH: But Walz's supporters at the state fair say it is unfair to hold him responsible for the fraud of others.
MIRIAM ACKERMAN, MINNESOTA VOTER: I certainly don't blame Governor Walz for it nor do I think he has sat back and once it was exposed, let it continue.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is it Governor Walz's fault? I don't think so. He's honest. He's real. Tim Walz has a heart.
(END VIDEOTAPE) LAH: A spokesperson for Governor Walz tells CNN that state agencies have implemented suggestions from the state auditor and sometimes they disagree with the auditor's findings, adding, quote, we are constantly evaluating ways to eliminate fraud and improve government programs. that spokesperson also added that the Walz administration has beefed up oversight of the Department of Education and spent millions to add staff to help root out bad actors -- Erin.
BURNETT: Kyung, thank you very much. And such important information to have out there with all that investigation. Thank you.
And next, a new reporting on how Israel expected the United States -- expects the United States to help with its retaliatory strikes on Iran, not just to be okay with it, but to actually participate. One of the top reporters in the Middle East will be OUTFRONT with this new reporting after this.
Plus, James Carville on his fiery, decades-long marriage to a woman from a different party.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARY MATALIN, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: Talking points like you do, check, check, check.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I thought he wrote the talking points.
MATALIN: He can't write.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ouch, ouch.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:46:45]
BURNETT: Breaking news, former President Trump, just moments ago, urging Israel to strike Iran's nuclear facilities, mocking President Biden for cautioning Israel against doing that very thing.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: They asked him, what do you think about -- what do you think about Iran? Would you hit Iran? And he goes, as long as they don't hit the nuclear stuff. That's the thing you want to hit, right? Hit the nuclear first and worry about the rest later.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Hit the nuclear first, and worry about the rest later.
And President Biden did say a hard no when it came to hitting anything nuclear at all, and that's a stark difference. It comes as the region is on edge as Israel is preparing its strike on Iran, which could come at any moment. Joining me now OUTFRONT, Ronen Bergman, staff writer at "The New York Times Magazine", who has covered the Middle East extensively for decades.
So, Ronen, as -- as you were here and it's now 2:47 in the morning. So this is just in the past few moments when Trump just said about the nuclear strikes. I mean, that is about as stark of a difference as you could possibly get, and one that is going to be very loudly heard here.
RONEN BERGMAN, STAFF WRITER, NEW YORK TIMES MAGAZINE: So I'm not an expert of American politics, but it seems this strike a contradiction because it's the contradiction and maybe choosing to do so.
But few things. So, first of all, President Trump, during his presidency, did not hit what he calls the nukes. But Iran doesn't have nukes. They have nuclear facilities that have dangerous potential to produce nuclear weapon if and when they decide and even when they have the knowledge and the capacity to do something like that.
The second is that since he decided President Trump to withdraw from the nuclear deal, Iran has made a huge leap forward towards the ability to produce one and not backwards. This is directly connected to his policies.
BURNETT: To Trump's decision.
BERGMAN: The Trump's decision to do so.
BURNETT: Yes.
BERGMAN: And I'm not sure that Israel or for that sake, the U.S. in its current buildup, military buildup in that area and following how deep the nuclear sites are, how fortified they are that both countries, of course, Israel have the capacity to actually cause damage beyond words, there's also the ability to actually do something.
BURNETT: Which is crucial. I mean, how deep they are under the ground and then even with things like bunker buster, all the technology that's there, that it -- that it simply may not be possible at this point. I mean, that's -- that's crucial.
You have new reporting tonight, Ronen, and that is that some Israeli officials in these days, as they've been readying whatever this strike is that they thought the United States would help them. And I don't mean help them after the strike be prepared for what comes next, help them in the strike itself. That is a hugely significant thing.
BERGMAN: And I was surprised just before the Iran attack and immediately after, there were many Israeli officials who said the U.S. will help Israel not just in the defense so intercepting ballistic missiles, cruise missiles, drones, et cetera, as they did in April, on April 13, 14 and just this week, but also in the offense, meaning attacking Iran.
[19:50:04]
Now, this is crucial militarily because Israel is far away -- the capacity to run long campaigns against Iran from air, of course, from Tennessee possible. Israel has limited capacity. The U.S. aid could be crucial if Israel wants to run long campaigns, but the Israelis, I don't know what they were basing this.
Now, all Israeli officials understand if at all the U.S. might be helping with the refueling -- the aerial refueling of the aircraft but not more. And probably not even then.
BURNETT: And probably not even that well. Ronen, thank you very much, and insignificant whether the U.S. would help with even the fueling of those bombers, those aircrafts going in.
Ronen Bergman, as I said, from "The New York Times".
And next, James Carville, the mastermind behind Bill Clintons winning campaign. On the similarity he sees to the moment we are in right now.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BURNETT: Tonight, a brand new documentary looking at the push by legendary political strategist James Carville to force his party into replacing Joe Biden as the 2024 nominate.
[19:55:02]
Well, we all know how with the rapid pace of history that happened. The documentary also focusing on the 1992 election where Carville was the brains behind Bill Clinton's winning campaign against George H.W. Bush.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There's nothing that says more the same more than Joe Biden versus Donald Trump. And James believes the change wins.
JAMES CARVILLE, POLITICAL STRATEGIST: We reached yesterday is a stitch of yesterday. He is. He is so yesterday, if I think a yes, if I think of an old calendar, I think of George Bush's face on it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: And now, right, that whole change theme, it is, well, being echoed by Kamala Harris as she's trying to make that case against Donald Trump.
So just the other day I sat down with James and I asked him if change was actually working as a winning argument for Harris.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CARVILLE: Yes, it's a different promises lecture, a really different because she represents -- she's to present, he's to past. The dichotomy I like better right now is fresh versus stale. We've seen this.
For eight years, we've had this. You know, can we do something a little different? And it's sort of hard for her to run as a true agent of change because she had been vice president of the current administration, but I do think that she has more of a freshness to it than he does. I think she's a little -- he's eminently very predictable. You kind of know what does that say, crazy stuff.
But I liked the fresh/stale of it.
BURNETT: Do you -- how much of it for you at this point in your life, James, is about winning. I mean, that's been a part of it, right? You want to win and you want to find a way to win.
Do you feel like at any point you ever lost sight of what you are fighting for or was that always present for you?
CARVILLE: You know there are people in politics or do it feel good, you know, this, well, we just got a people, it's a shame. We lost.
I had not sympathy for that. If you don't win, you haven't done anything, all right? You can have all of the arguments and the back- and-forth you want, I've never felt superior losing a political race.
BURNETT: So, one of the people with whom you have had the most arguments, is your wife and I'm not talking about all the domestic ones that we can all relate to, the political ones. You know, the documentary and what I find the most compelling is the two of you and always have that you could sit there and so vehemently disagree about things that so many of us found -- see us so core to who we are and yet still love each other and have two children together, raise those children with such love.
You met in 1992 in George W. Bush campaign while she was working for the George W. Bush -- H.W. Bush campaign, I'm sorry. Here's what Mary says.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MATALIN: He's like he lives in his own world. And I love that. He's just a wonder. It's like a wonder of nature but so as a hurricane, so its a nice, he just had to batten up the hatches, get a stiff martini, but the hurricane pass by.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: You know, that's love. That's love of 30 years. But the moments that people like me saw and I always wondered what was behind the curtain were moments like these.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MATALIN: Unlike Republicans who have instantly done the honorable thing and not even remotely similar situations, he's -- he's capable of it.
CARVILLE: Let me say. Yes, if he would resign, I never speak to him again for the rest of my life.
MATALIN: Well, good. But he doesn't, maybe I'll never speak to you again.
CARVILLE: And we seeing from the vast right-wing conspiracy to the vast right-wing talking points.
MATALIN: We don't get good talking points like you do, check, check, check, he can't write.
You can manufacture, and flagrantly lie about conservatives of all stripes on radio, off the air. They had this elitist --
CARVILLE: I'm sorry. I'm sorry.
(CROSSTALK)
MATALIN: And then they want to have a national dialogue. I'm (INAUDIBLE) safe at him, John.
CARVILLE: I'm sorry.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: How do you have that love? How do you love someone? And also feel that way about them? That's what everyone wants to know.
CARVILLE: So, a lot -- many people are married who don't like each other's (INAUDIBLE), okay.
So is it harder to be married to a woman that hates your politics or hates your mother. I hope somebody would be lucky. I didn't get married. I was 49. Somebody should be as far as -- is to find somebody that you really care about and appreciate.
And, you know, Mary, have so even just take of people in politics and you think that's the sum total of what they are. She's actually a very good beekeeper. She's a great gardener. She's a great mother.
She takes the kids and, you know, so she's a -- I think she's somewhat of a polymath. She can do a lot of different things and I appreciate that. You know, she was a homecoming queen, what, red-blooded American guy and want to marry a homecoming queen.
BURNETT: And you hit the jackpot on that.
Well, it's great to see you, James.
CARVILLE: Thank you.
BURNETT: As always, thank you.
CARVILLE: You bet.
(END VDEO CLIP)
BUIRNETT: All right. And be sure to watch CNN's new film, "Carville: Winning is Everything, Stupid", airing tomorrow night at 7:00.
And meantime, thanks so much for joining us.
"AC360" begins right now.
