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Erin Burnett Outfront
Vance Refuses 5 Times To Say If Trump Lost 2020 Election; Hurricane Deaths Rise to 17, Water Still Rising In Some Areas; Sources: Iran Nervous As It Braces For Israel's Retaliation. Aired 7- 8p ET
Aired October 11, 2024 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[19:00:36]
PAMELA BROWN, CNN HOST: OUTFRONT next:
Denial. A reporter presses Vance five times to say Trump lost the 2020 election and five times Vance dodges. The exchange is stunning and the reporter, Lulu Garcia-Navarro, is my next guest.
Plus, quote, a total fascist. Trump's former top general telling Bob Woodward, Trump is the most dangerous person in the country and fears Trump will court-martial him if he wins.
And Iran furiously working the phones tonight, nervous about Israel targeting its nuclear sites. CNN has some new details just coming in from Tehran this hour.
Let's go OUTFRONT.
Well, good evening. I'm Pamela Brown, in for Erin Burnett tonight.
J.D. Vance in denial again and again and again. In a stunning new interview with "The New York Times", Lulu Garcia-Navarro, who is a frequent guest here on our program, and he will join me in a moment, Garcia-Navarro pushes Vance five times and five times. Vance refuses to say if he believes Trump lost the 2020 election. Just watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LULU GARCIA-NAVARRO, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: In the debate, you were asked to clarify if you believe Trump lost the 2020 election. Do you believe he lost the 2020 election?
SEN. J.D. VANCE (R-OH), VICE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I think that Donald Trump and I have both raised a number of issues with the 2020 election, but were focused on the future. I think there's an obsession here with focusing on 2020. I'm much more worried about what happened after 2020, which is a wide-open border, groceries that are unaffordable and look --
GARCIA-NAVARRO: Senator, yes or no?
VANCE: OK.
GARCIA-NAVARRO: Did Donald Trump lose the 2020 election?
VANCE: Let me ask you a question. Is it okay that big technology companies censored the Hunter Biden laptop story, which independent analysis have said cost Donald Trump millions of votes?
GARCIA-NAVARRO: Senator Vance, I'm going to ask you again, did Donald Trump lose the 2020 election?
VANCE: Did big technology companies censor a story that independent studies have suggested would have cost Trump millions of votes?
GARCIA-NAVARRO: Senator Vance --
VANCE: I'm going to ask the question --
GARCIA-NAVARRO: -- I'm going to ask you again, did Donald Trump lose the 2020 election?
VANCE: Can I answer your question with another question? You answer my question and I'll answer yours.
GARCIA-NAVARRO: I have asked his question repeatedly. It is something that is very important for the American people to know. There is no proof legal or otherwise that Donald Trump did not lose the 2020 election.
VANCE: You're repeating a slogan rather than engaging with what I'm saying, which is that when our own technology firms engage in industrial scale censorship, by the way, backed up by the federal government in a way that independent studies suggest affect the votes, I'm worried about Americans who feel like there were problems in 2020.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: Vice President Harris tonight seizing on this, insisting she won't surrender herself with yes-men, like Trump does.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KAMALA HARRIS, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES & 2024 PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: You know, the way that I like to lead, I bring folks in my office all the time and they know I don't want any yes-people.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: The Harris campaign also tweeting out Vance's entire exchange with Garcia-Navarro, and we should point out, Vance wasn't always an enabler of Trump's lies. Our KFILE just this week uncovering reportings of Vance from 2020, admitting people will accept Trump lost.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
VANCE: I think that when Biden is inaugurated, people will feel more or less accepted. It, it'll be on to the next fight.
Well, Vance has obviously changed his tune now that he's Trump's running mate.
Alayna Treene is OUTFRONT now in Reno, Nevada, where Trump is holding a rally.
And, Alayna, you've been talking to your Trump sources, just getting off the phone on with them tonight. What is the strategy behind what Vance is doing here with these interviews?
ALAYNA TREENE, CNN REPORTER: Oh, well, well, Pamela, this has long been the strategy for J.D. Vance really for a number of weeks now. Donald Trump, remember, one of the reasons he selected J.D. Vance to be his vice presidential running mate was because he liked him in his interviews, he liked the way that he defended him on television.
And really, I'm told that ever since that debate between Vance and Governor Tim Walz, Trump has wanted him out there in front of audiences that perhaps, you know, aren't typically political, aren't typically the ones that you expect Trump campaign members to be doing, including these mainstream outlets like "The New York Times". That has been the strategy.
He's also been told to be the attack dog, even though we know that Donald Trump does a fine job attacking his opponents themselves.
[19:05:02]
They really want Vance to be that person for the campaign.
Now as for this interview in particular, because it is interesting, I mean, this was a hour plus long interview with "The New York Times", when I talked to Vance's senior advisors, they say this is part of that strategy of getting in front of these audiences that we don't typically do.
Now, when it comes to some of this and particularly that answer that Lulu was really pressing advance on about the 2020 election. He knows that the most important person who was watching him is Donald Trump. He knows what Donald Trump is expecting him to say. So, while he's not exactly playing to an audience of one, Donald Trump's opinion is the one that he is most concerned about. I think that's why you're hearing him continue to kind of dodge on that answer of who won the 2020 election -- Pamela.
BROWN: Yeah, because he full knows that if he says, oh yeah, Trump lost, he loses job probably, right? You can only imagine what Trump's reaction to that would be.
Alayna Treene, thank you.
And OUTFRONT now, Max Rose, former Democratic congressman, Lulu Garcia Navarro, who conducted that extensive interview with Vance for "The New York Times", and that Matt Mowers is a Republican strategist and former Trump administration official.
Lulu, let's start with you. We've seen -- we've watched it tonight several times. You gave Vance a lot of opportunity to say Trump lost the election. What was going through your mind as he pushed back the second time, the third time, and on and on?
I think one of the things that's really important to understand is this is one of the key questions of the selection we've seen in polls, we've seen over and over voters saying that democracy is also on the ballot. People are concerned about this issue, 2020 is on their minds, and Donald Trump has refused to acknowledge that he lost that election.
J.D. Vance is a hair's breath from becoming the vice president of this country. And so pressing him on this issue is important because we know over and over again that it is a lie, the big lie, at the center of what Donald Trump requires people around him to say. And so by pressing him over and over again, really there is just one question and there are two answers the question was the one that I said and the answer is yes or no.
And the fact that he couldn't give a yes or no, I think is extremely telling, and what I'm doing there is really tried to make sure that the voters there's understand the position that J.D. Vance holds, and by extension, the Trump campaign.
BROWN: Right. And he said that you were using a slogan when you just presented him with these facts that yes, indeed, Trump lost.
Matt, to you, we should note you were hammered on your own congressional primary in New Hampshire for acknowledging the truth, that Joe Biden got more votes in 2020. How do you think Vance should have answered Lulu's question?
MATT MOWERS, FORMER TRUMP ADMINISTRATION OFFICIAL: Well, I think he just hasn't gotten it, doesn't have much of a choice, right? I mean, its not uncommon and its well-documented, obviously, what Donald Trump has said about the 2020 election and candidly, I think its pretty well baked into the cake of how the American people view him and whether they're going to choose him or vice president Harris.
So I think what J.D. Vance is doing essentially whatever a running mate has always had to do, and yes, this is a different issue that's come up before. Yes, it's a different topic. We're not talking about adjusting your position on, you know, taxes or abortion or anything like that, but he is aligning himself with what Donald Trump has said, which is essentially his job as a running mate.
And so, you know, I think that's essentially what he was doing. I will say I do give them a little bit of credit for at least engaging with "The New York Times". And, Lulu, sit down with you for well over an hour, you know, the paper obviously has already endorsed Kamala Harris for president. Might go the same way as president --
GARCIA-NAVARRO: We had a long discussion about a lot of things, yeah.
MOWERS: -- they endorse.
Yeah. I was going to say. There was a lot different topics. So I will give them some credit for going in "The New York Times". It's no surprise obviously that you're going to ask that question, and he did essentially what every running mate has to do, which is backup, the position of the principal.
BROWN: But you know what's so interesting? He didn't fully back it up because Trump says he didn't lose and Vance didn't exactly say that he just wanted to dodge the question, right? I mean, he wanted to throw out stuff about the Hunter Biden's laptop and exactly and try to distract.
MOWERS: Sure.
BROWN: He didn't say. He could have said, no, he didn't lose, which is what Trump has been saying. He didn't say that. I think that that's notable, right?
(CROSSTALK)
BROWN: Go ahead.
MOWERS: I'll just say real quick, I've actually seen some polling on this issue. I'm involved in a group called a Democracy Defense Project, which is trying to push back against some of the denialism around elections.
One of the biggest concerns, actually the biggest concern when you ask voters about their concerns about whether a party can rig an election or not, they actually do talk about media its or shipped believe it or not across the country. So I got imagine what he is doing is trying to move to a safer ground where its upward of almost 90 percent of Americans who agree with him that media censorship is in big concern in this upcoming election?
BROWN: All right. Thank you for sharing that point.
Max, I want to bring you in on this and play more from Lulu's 75- minute interview with Vance.
[19:10:04]
She asked Vance if he would have certified the 2020 election results. Here he is.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
VANCE: I've said that I would've voted against certification because of the concern that I just raised. I think that when you have technology companies --
GARCIA-NAVARRO: The answer is no?
VANCE: When you have technology companies censoring Americans at a mass scale in a way that again an independent studies have suggested affect the vote, I think that it's right to protest against that, to criticize that, and that's a totally reasonable thing.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: A definitive no. Your reaction? MAX ROSE, FORMER U.S. REPRESENTATIVE: Well, look, first of all, you can't really blame J.D. Vance when Mike Pence took the opposite position that he just laid out, Donald Trump, of course, tried to have him killed. So he understands here that he is certainly playing with fire.
But what J.D. Vance is really doing here is showing why he was picked by Donald Trump. Because he has this unique capability to just demonstrate 100 percent fealty to Donald Trump's positions, no matter what they were. Remember back to the Republican primary when it was asked if Mike Pence did the right thing every single individual on that stage said that he had.
So no one even in the Republican primary when they are just appealing to the extremist base of their own party was willing to standby where J.D. Vance is. So, it's understandable. I think it's despicable. But what is not really -- doesn't really make sense to me and I'd love to hear everyone else's thoughts on this is when you're appealing to moderate voters in a general election less than one month from the election, why are you standing by this position? There's not at any independent voter who would agree with this.
BROWN: I want to get to other issues that Lulu talked about in this long interview. The fact of Trump stoking these fears about Venezuela's gangs terrorizing Aurora, Colorado, here's his latest claim.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT & 2024 PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: You're going to have hundreds of millions of people coming in here. And you're not going to have -- and they're going to take your house. That woman has a beautiful house over there. I saw it actually. Enjoy it because you won't have it long. They will take over your house.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: So another one of your latest lengthy exchanges, Lulu was with Vance was about immigration. Vance, of course, was one of the first Republicans to spread that unfounded rumor about Haitian migrants eating pets.
Tell us more about what he said in your interview on this issue.
GARCIA-NAVARRO: This is obviously one of the main issues that the Trump campaign and Vance as well has engaged with. He was the one perpetrating many of the lies about Springfield, Ohio. We had a very pointed exchange about that.
And we also talked more generally about the idea of housing in this country. Listen, what you hear Trump and Vance trying to do over and over, they know that this is an issue where they get a lot of traction. People are legitimately concerned about what happened on the southern border with the surge of migration.
But what you hear there with Trump right now, that that isn't true, no one's coming across the border and, you know, kicking people out of their homes and stealing their homes. And that's not the fundamental reason why we have a housing crisis in this country.
And so, when I talked to Vance about this and I pressed him on this, you know, he didn't -- he didn't have frankly, a lot to respond. I mean, he believes and he kept on pressing the point that there are migration is the reason why people don't have houses in this country. And I was, you know, and I pointed out that that simply isn't the case.
BROWN: Max, are you worried about how much impact this misinformation has on voters?
ROSE: With it being this close to the election, I'm worried about just about everything. But when you look at what Donald Trump just did in Colorado, lets not forget that the mayor of that city, that he is talking about here is a Republican and despite that, mayor's partisan affiliation, that mayor has come loudly and boldly out against Donald Trump's claims, which is quite a bold move at this close to an election by a member of your own party.
But that just shows that these are lies here. Donald Trump stands zero chance of winning Colorado. The only reason why he is there is because he is making an attempt to demonize people across the country and nationalize this issue. And it is imperative that the Harris campaign takes every opportunity to protest that and refute these claims.
BROWN: And we do want to note again that the Republican mayor of Aurora said that these are false claims.
Max, Matt, Lulu, thank you so much for that discussion. And Lulu will have more of her Vance interview and she appears on "THE CHRIS WALLACE SHOW" tomorrow at 10:00 a.m. Eastern on CNN.
And Trump spent a lot of today slamming Colorado's governor Jared Polis. He'll respond tonight on "THE SOURCE" with Kaitlan Collins.
OUTFRONT next, the Harris campaign is hitting Trump hard for insulting Detroit.
[19:15:04]
Michigan's Democratic Party chair is next.
Plus, she was behind a fringe 2020 conspiracy theory.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I got a phone call from a friend and said they're shredding things. You know, you need to get over there.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: And now she's implementing decisions about Georgia's election. Our Donie O'Sullivan spoke to her. It is a shocking conversation. You will not want to miss it. And Trump's former top general, fearing he'll be court-martialed if Trump wins. Why?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: Tonight, the vice president's warning.
[19:20:01]
Kamala Harris is campaigning in the key battleground state of Arizona, speaking directly to Republican voters and warning about whether Trump can be trusted with a second term.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KAMALA HARRIS, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES & 2024 PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We should actually be concerned and have a question, a legitimate question. In an election for president of the United States, the commander-in chief if whether they will abide by the oath.
In fact, imagine, imagine, that's a legitimate question we are asking. It's not rhetorical.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: It's one of many issues that are top of mind in this battleground state.
Jeff Zeleny has tonight's voters OUTFRONT.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DONNA ROSS, ARIZONA VOTER SUPPORTING HARRIS: It was a right that we've had for 50 years. It's crazy to think that you can take it back right away. Who does that?
JEFF ZELENY, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Donna Ross is voting to protect abortion rights.
Candy Purdue is, too.
CANDY PURDUE, ARIZONA VOTER SUPPORTING TRUMP: Everybody on that issue. I believe has the right to decide what they want and what they can live with.
ZELENY: Beyond that, their views diverge sharply here in battleground Arizona, where Ross is supporting Kamala Harris.
ROSS: I'm very excited. She is so dynamic.
ZELENY: And Purdue is backing Donald Trump.
PURDUE: You darn right I am.
ZELENY: The scrambled politics of abortion are at the center of the first presidential race since the Supreme Court overturned Roe versus Wade. The fight has been an anthem of Harris's candidacy.
HARRIS: So, Arizona, we need to fight this battle on every front. And in this election, you have the chance on the state level to vote yes on Proposition 139.
ZELENY: Yet, it's far from certain whether Proposition 139, a measure to enshrine abortion rights in the state constitution, will give her a definite edge.
Abortion and immigration are colliding in Arizona, like few other battlegrounds, with both issues literally on the ballot. Proposition 314 would make immigration violations a state crime, virtually no money has been spent on ads compared to abortion, which dominates the airwaves.
AD NARRATOR: You can end Arizona's abortion ban by voting yes on Prop 139.
LAURA DENT, ARIZONA VOTER: It's something that resonates with independents, with Democrats, with Republicans.
ZELENY: Laura Dent help gather more than 800,000 signatures from Arizona voters to put abortion rights on the ballot.
As volunteers go door to door, three weeks before the election, Mayra Rodriguez has deployed an RV to spread the word against the measure.
MAYRA RODRIGUEZ, PRO-LIFE ADVOCATE: Obviously, we don't come with the money the other side does.
ZELENY: A former clinic manager for Planned Parenthood, Rodriguez now warns women against abortion. She's voting for Trump, but with little enthusiasm.
RODRIGUEZ: I always tell people that Jesus is on the valor. He will -- they will all we have to choose always the lesser of two evils.
ZELENY: And the lesser of two evils is?
RODRIGUEZ: Right. To me, it's Trump.
ZELENY: Four years ago, Trump lost Arizona by 10,457 votes, out of more than 3.3 million cast, one of his narrowest defeats.
David Tapia sat on the sidelines in that election, but has no plans of doing so again. He's 42, born and raised in Arizona and used his classic cars to entice others to register, to vote.
Trump drove you to be more politically aware.
DAVID TAPIA, ARIZONA VOTER SUPPORTING HARRIS: A hundred percent, Trump's a popular guy. So whether you like it or not, you're going to open your phone and you're going to see politics.
ZELENY: The more he saw the former president over the past four years, he said, the less he liked. He plans to vote for Harris. TAPIA: Looking at both sides, I mean, I'll be honest. I'm not a supporter of Trump. I'm just not.
ZELENY: He's been studying state races, too, including the abortion measure he plans to support.
TAPIA: My man, no ones ever told me what to do and I believe that women have the right to make the decisions on their own bodies.
ZELENY: Whether Tapia's views are widely held or the exception will help determine the outcome in Arizona.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ZELENY (on camera): And Arizona's 11 electoral votes, really earth the center of this race. Vice President Harris spent much of the day there today. Former President Donald Trump will be campaigning there on Sunday at a rally.
There is no doubt this confluence of immigration and abortion certainly is driving this race. Early voting underway every day is Election Day until November 5th -- Pamela.
BROWN: Very important point. Jeff Zeleny, thank you so much.
And also tonight, Trump versus Detroit. The Harris campaign wasting no time attacking the former president for insulting the most populous city in Michigan. Tim Walz is in the key state today saying its another example of Trump trying to, quote, tear-down America.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOV. TIM WALZ (D-MN), VICE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: If the guy would have ever spent any time in the Midwest, like all of us know, we'd know Detroit's experience in American comeback.
[19:25:01]
The city's growing, crimes down, factories are opening up.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: This as the Harris campaign releases a new ad, which will air in Detroit this weekend during the MLB playoffs and the NFL game.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
COURTNEY VANCE, ACTOR: What Donald Trump doesn't understand or care to learn is that when he said --
TRUMP: Our whole country will end being like Detroit, if she's your president.
VANCE: -- that he should be so goddamn lucky.
(END VIDEO CLIP) BROWN: All right. OUTFRONT now, Michigan's Democratic Party chair, Lavora Barnes.
Lavora, thanks for your time tonight.
So, Trump compared Detroit to a developing country. Today, the campaign is defending his comments saying, quote, Detroit has suffered from globalist policies championed by Kamala Harris that have shipped manufacturing oversees. Trump's policies will usher in a new era of economic success and stability.
I'm curious what you think. How much do you think Trump's words could hurt him with Black voters, which make up the majority of voters in Detroit?
LAVORA BARNES, MICHIGAN DEMOCRATIC PARTY CHAIR: I think they're going to hurt him a lot. Folks are going to remember this as they're marking their ballots. Ballots some folks already have in their hands right now.
You don't come into the city of Detroit and disparage the city of Detroit. You shouldn't do it anywhere, but you certainly don't come stand in our city and say those words, and it's shocking to me that he would do it there, although not surprising, because Trump got a habit of saying horrific things about places where Black folks live. And this is just another example of that bigotry that he's chosen to lash out at the city of Detroit.
And I think the most surprising part of it is that he did it while standing right in the city, almost makes you wonder, did he see the city? He drove through to get to the Detroit Economic Club? Did he see the events that the city has put on recently, that beautiful and exciting draft day that we held, all of the things that have happened in the city?
That the growth -- increase of jobs, the increase of housing, the businesses that will come into the city. It's a true -- as Governor Walz said, American comeback. It's a great story. Detroit is.
And clearly, Trump doesn't see that. All Trump sees I think is black and brown skin.
BROWN: I'm going to ask you about a former President Obama. He was been on the trail and he's actually bluntly talking to Black men who aren't supporting Harris. He says, they are coming up with excuses when they actually just don't want a woman as president. Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARACK OBAMA, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT: Part of it makes me think that -- well, you just aren't feeling the idea of having a woman as president. That you're coming up with other alternatives and other reasons for that.
(END VIDEO CLIP) BROWN: Do you agree with President Obama that Black men are reluctant to support Harris because she is a woman.
What have you found in your conversations with them?
BARNES: We were talking to Black men. What were hearing is of more conversations about the economy and more conversations about wanting to know more about the vice president. And we're giving them that information and she's coming here. She's coming back next week and she's continuing to have conversations and let people get to know her better.
I have not yet met at a black man who says to me that he's not supporting the vice president because she's a woman. I have met black man who say, I need to know more. I've met black men who have heard some of the disinformation and misinformation sent to them by the Trump campaign and makes them question the vice president and we've been able to respond to that misinformation and disinformation giving him the facts about who the vice president is and moving those votes to the vice president when we have those conversations.
So we're just going to keep doing it. We're going to be in their homes and on their phones and their churches in barbershops continuing to tell the truth about who the vice president is and who she will be as president of the United States.
BROWN: Just to follow up on, you win something you said, we've heard that concern from other members of Congress from Michigan, like Debbie Dingell, that there are people in Michigan who just feel like they don't know her well enough. They don't know her policies and it sounds like you're talking to folks on the ground who have conveyed that to you.
Why don't you think her -- her messaging around her policies, particularly when it comes to the economy, are breaking through yet to those voters, were talking to?
BARNES: I think there are two things. One, she's been at the top of the ticket, a very short amount of time. This is an unprecedented way to run for president in the United States. And I think she's doing a magnificent job of doing it.
And number two, we're just getting in do the home stretch of this campaign, which is when a lot of people start actually paying attention, which is why some people are feeling like they're just looking at meeting to figure out who the candidates are and what they believe in and what they stand for.
And that's why were so glad that we've got a strong program on the ground to be having these conversations right now in the heat of this campaign in the month some folks are getting the ballots and getting ready to vote so we can provide them the information they need to make the right choice, which is Kamala Harris.
BROWN: All right. Lavorna -- Lavora Barnes, thank you so much for your time. We really appreciate it. [19:30:02]
BARNES: My pleasure.
BROWN: And OUTFRONT next, Trump's former top general, Mark Milley, with a sobering new warning, calling Trump a fascist to the core in the new book. And he sounding the alarm about what could happen if Trump returns to power.
Plus, her conspiracy theories were so out there that even Republicans weren't buying what she was selling. But now, she is gaining significant power n a must-win swing state. Just wait for the story. You won't believe it.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: Tonight, a fascist to the core. Donald Trump's former top Joint Chiefs of Staff, Mark Milley, calling Trump a fascist and saying that no one has ever been as dangerous to this country. That's according to Bob Woodward's new book, "War".
Milley also telling Woodward that he feared plus Trump will court- martial him if he wins. That Trump is out for revenge because Milley has stood up to Trump on several issues, including the 2020 election.
Trump responding with a new statement tonight, quote: Woke train-wreck Mark Milley clearly suffers from Trump derangement syndrome. And it's no surprise he pals around with a washed-up fiction writer like Bob Woodward to peddle lies and misinformation.
[19:35:08]
But it's many in Trump's own party who are spreading lies and misinformation as our Donie O'Sullivan finds in the key state of Georgia, a state Trump needs to win, a once fringe conspiracy theorist is now wielding outsize influence on the party and the state.
Donie O'Sullivan spoke to her. It is a stunning conversation. He's OUTFRONT.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DONIE O'SULLIVAN, CNN SENIOR CORRESPONDENT: How does it feel to be labeled a conspiracy theorist, as I'm sure you haven't been?
SALLEIGH GRUBBS, TRUMP SUPPORTER: Am I? That's news to me.
O'SULLIVAN: Trump supporters like Salleigh Grubbs are making last- minute changes to election rules in Georgia on things like how ballots are counted and how easy it is to challenge the election results.
Before the 2020 election, you weren't necessarily involved that had a political organizing level at all.
GRUBBS: No.
O'SULLIVAN: What changed?
GRUBBS: Because of the ballot shredding that happened at Jim Miller Park.
O'SULLIVAN: As Trump's election denialism grip Georgia in November 2020, Salleigh got caught up in a conspiracy theory her own.
GRUBBS: November 20, Friday morning.
I got a phone call from a grand and said they're shredding things. You need to get over there.
I'm watching on obese ballots being shredded now, unbelievable.
O'SULLIVAN: They jumped in their cars and chased the truck.
Salleigh said it was like a scene from "Thelma and Louise".
What did you see? You saw --
GRUBBS: I saw big containers, big bins of things that said official absentee ballot, wield over to a shredding trucks sucked up into the truck and shredded.
O'SULLIVAN: The story went viral, but county and state election officials, even the shredding company itself said that no ballots were shredded, only things like all envelopes and mailing labels were destroyed.
GRUBBS: If we can get lottery tickets, right. We should be able to process ballots.
O'SULLIVAN: Salleigh was directly involved in changing a rule to give local election officials the power to delay certification of the results.
GABRIEL STERLING, ELECTION OFFICIAL: She is highly motivated individual who has taken advantage of the laws as written. If you're relentless, you can get voices and get things done.
O'SULLIVAN: Gabriel Sterling is one of the top election officials in Georgia.
STERLING: Most of the stuff I do is just adding extra stress to our county workers more than anything. If Trump wins the state, everything will be roses. If he loses the state by a small amount, which is a possibility, too, then this is just laying the foundation for the conspiracy theories of how the election got stolen this time.
O'SULLIVAN: One of the last minute changes here involves an additional count of ballots by hand.
JOSEPH KIRK, ELECTIONS SUPERVISOR, BARTOW COUNTY, GA: I want be clear, I don't have a problem at hand counting ballots.
O'SULLIVAN: Yes. KIRK: There's different times to do that, there's different reasons to
do that in the process we know we go through is called an audit.
O'SULLIVAN: Joseph Kirk is the election administrator in the county next to Salleigh's.
KIRK: But we do it after the election, in a controlled environment where it's easier to observe, easier to monitor the process, and my folks have a chance to rest first. We're just giving folks a chance to make a mistake. We're just having very, very tired in many cases, senior citizens try to hand-count stuff in front of people which can be nerve wracking.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
O'SULLIVAN (on camera): So, Pam, what you're seeing happening now in Georgia is the election conspiracies from 2020. And the election conspiracy theorists who believe them and who promoted them are now involved in making these very controversial, a controversial last minute changes to election rules, to election processes in that stage, which and itself could cause more confusion and chaos in so more conspiracy theories.
I asked Gabriel Sterling there, the top -- one of the top election officials in the state, you know, do officials think they're prepared for all that is to come? He said, look, at least they know the playbook this time. They've seen this happen before. How conspiracy theories run right ran wild in 2020, and they're ready for it again.
BROWN: Let's hope they're ready for it.
Donie O'Sullivan, thank you.
O'SULLIVAN: Thanks
BROWN: OUTFRONT now, legendary anchor Chris Wallace, host of CNN's "WHO'S TALKING TO CHRIS WALLACE?" and "THE CHRIS WALLACE SHOW". He is the author of the new book, "Countdown 1960: The Behind The Scenes Story Of The 312 Days That Changed Americas Politics Forever".
Chris, great to see you there is so much to talk about here with your new book. So many parallels to what were experiencing now. But first I want to ask you about something former Joint Chiefs of Staff Mark Milley told Bob Woodward. Milley says, if Trump is elected. He will be court-martialed because Trump wants revenge for Milley's strong criticism of him. Milley says Trump is a, quote, total fascist and the most dangerous person to this country.
How significant is what Milley is saying on the record?
[19:40:02]
CHRIS WALLACE, CNN ANCHOR, "THE CHRIS WALLACE SHOW": Well, it is a terrible condemnation of Donald Trump from the man who was the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff under Trump. And we know from histories now since the Trump administration, they had grave differences on foreign policy while Trump was president. And then after Trump left in an earlier Bob Woodward book, Milley was very critical of him.
But, you know, what we live in America, and he didn't do and say anything critical of him in public while Trump was the commander in chief. And the idea that he would fear this man who has devoted his entire life to defending American democracy, that he would fear, that he would be the subject of a court martial and that he would call the president. He served under having fascist tendencies its pretty serious stuff, Pam.
BROWN: I want to talk about your book now you talk about how there is good reason to believe the 1960 election was actually stolen. But in that election, candidate who lost, Nixon, refused to contest the results and interfere with the peaceful transfer of power.
You write: Nixon said it didn't matter. The cost was too high. Our country cannot afford the agony of a constitutional crisis and I damn well will not be a party to creating one just to become president or anything else.
Tell us more about this and what lessons can be learned at a time when Trump is setting the stage again, the claim, the election is rigged if he loses.
WALLACE: There is real evidence that the election was stolen. There was clear vote fraud on behalf of people supporting Jack Kennedy in Illinois and in Texas, other states as well. But if he had just flip those two, Nixon gets elected president in '60, not Jack Kennedy, and even though Nixon was a tough guy and his name was Tricky Dick, his nickname, he felt that that the peaceful transfer of power was such an essential part of the Constitution that he was not going to contest the election, throw the country into an opera about who is going to be the commander in chief, especially during the height of the Cold War.
BROWN: Right, and an extension of that, this other stunning parallel. Nixon presiding over his own January 6 session, session where you write about that moment saying, quote, Nixon told his colleagues but this was the first time in 100 years that a candidate for the presidency announced the results of an election in which she was defeated and announced the victory of his opponent. Of course, on January 6, 2025, Harris is set to preside over Congress and count the electoral votes that will either make her or Donald Trump that the 47th president of the U.S.
But, you know, Chris, it used to be a formality for Congress to count in, announce the votes. No longer is that the case. Just today, Trump's running mate, J.D. Vance, said he wouldn't have certified the results in 2020 if he was VP.
WALLACE: No, I mean this goes directly to the resonance for what were going through right now, as you say, under the Electoral Count Act of 1887, the vice president, whether he's running or not, is there in the joint session of Congress to certify the counting of the electoral votes and certify who the next president is. And we saw what happened in 2020 or 2021 of January 6, where Mike
Pence is there under tremendous pressure from Trump to throw the votes back and, or to seat the fake electors and count their votes and to basically overturn the will of 150 million Americans. And when he refuses to do it, the mob turns on him. They set up gallows and they say, "hang Mike Pence", and we now know from the special counsel that supposedly somebody came in and said to Trump at that point, Pence is in real trouble and he goes, so what?
Contrast that with Richard Nixon, who is actually running that time for president, goes in, certifies the vote that was, in fact, a challenge and Hawaii and he gave the votes. He ruled that the vote should go to Kennedy, not to him. And then with Kennedy in the House chamber says, I declare that John F. Kennedy has been elected the next president of the United States.
You know, that's not remarkable. That's the way that the Constitution is written. That's the way we have, have acted for more than 200 years.
What's remarkable is what happened in 2021 and the fact that here we are four years later, just weeks away from another election. And the question as to whether or not Donald Trump and his running mate and his people will accept the election if they lose. And Kamala Harris wins, is still very much in doubt.
BROWN: Everyone needs to read your book. It is so relevant right now, as we count down the days until the election, just around the corner.
Thank you. Chris Wallace, author of this new book, "Countdown 1960".
WALLACE: Pam, thank you.
[19:45:02]
BROWN: And OUTFRONT next, breaking news officials in Florida is sounding the alarm tonight that the flooding from Hurricane Milton could get worse, leaving even more people stranded. We are live on the ground.
Plus, why is Trump now asking for one of the militaries most high high-tech aircrafts, one that comes with anti-missile capabilities. We'll be back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: Breaking news, Florida officials just announcing another death from hurricane Milton, the death toll from the catastrophic storm now, at least 17 people. Floodwaters are still rising this hour and officials are sounding the alarm that it could get worse.
[19:50:01]
Isabel Rosales is OUTFRONT.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) RALPH GENITO, FORCED TO EVACUATE HOME: I feel everybody's been through the same thing, really do, I knew. I never expect to happen to me. Nobody -- nobody expects it to happen to them.
ISABEL ROSALES, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): When Hurricane Milton barreled out of Florida Thursday morning, Ralph and Tina Genito felt they had survived the worst of it. But late Thursday night, their daughter urgently woke them up, telling them get out.
GENITO: We left last night at 10:30 with 3/4 of water outside. So my daughter says it was going to come up even higher.
ROSALES: Milton's torrential downpour dumped ten to 18 inches of rain around the Tampa Bay area. And as a result, rivers and reservoirs overflowed and the danger not yet over, as the rivers forecast to crest as high as 25 feet Friday night, a major flood stage.
GENITO: This area is not supposed to get this way, it's not supposed to where the last row supposedly the floods, but now it's beyond us all the way to Lithia.
ROSALES: Long after the storm was gone, Ralph and Tina unexpectedly forced to evacuate south thing, whatever they can carry into trash bags.
GENITO: It will be a long road. Everybody knows it, too.
ROSALES: CNN surveying the devastation firsthand by airboat with Hillsborough County's sheriff. His message, crystal clear.
SHERIFF CHAD CHRONISTER, HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY, FLORIDA: Please get out now, you know, were we have some people here that were rescue in that thought it would be okay. The water is not going down. The water is only going to increase. So, if you're on the fence on whether you should leave or not leave, please, let's keep everyone safe. Let's leave now.
ROSALES: There's so many people now burdened with the thought of recovery. Never predicting it would need a post storm evacuation. More than 2 million people remain without power, more than 75 percent of the gas stations in the Tampa area have no fuel.
Florida Senator Rick Scott visiting the hard-hit area Friday to assure the community well leaders are doing everything they can to help with that recovery.
SEN. RICK SCOTT (R-FL): I'm here to make sure that federal resources are here. It takes you as an individual takes local and state and federal to work together. So I'm here to make sure that were going to do that.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ROSALES (on camera): And, Pamela, there is another factor that's going to make these floodwaters, look at this, rise even higher tonight. And that is that the Southwest Florida Water Management District, a flood protection agency, neighbors are frustrated and angry by this. They're going to release even more water from a nearby reservoir that is fool from all of that rain from Milton. The agency says they I have to do this to protect the structural integrity of the dam. And if they don't, it could further endanger lives here. But neighbors say that this is just going to make their lives even more hellish for days to come.
BROWN: Isabel Rosales, thank you.
And OUTFRONT next breaking news, Trump growing so concerned about an attack by Iran that he's now asking for an aircraft that can take down a missile.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:57:30]
BROWN: Breaking news, Trump is asking the U.S. government to let him fly on military aircraft with missile deterrence systems. It comes after two assassination attempts and intelligence pointing to a continued threat from Iran.
And tonight, CNN is learning that Iran is extremely nervous about Israel targeting its nuclear facilities.
Fred Pleitgen is OUTFRONT in Tehran.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
(CHANTING)
FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice- over): "Death to America" and "death to Israel" chants at the main Friday prayers in Tehran, as Iran awaits possible Israeli retaliation for their recent missile strike against military installations inside Israel.
Iran's hardliners are trying to send a very clear message to both the U.S. and Israel, Iran doesn't want escalation, but if escalation happens, they're ready for a big fight.
Hezbollah flags in the crowd and a giant poster of the slain Hezbollah leader Hassan Nasrallah, recently killed in an Israeli airstrike, overlooking the prayers.
Many here warning Israel to back off.
They will see a very harsh response from the IRGC, the army, and the people of Iran, this man says, be sure that this will happen.
And he says, Israel has experienced this before. And if they repeat this experience, they will definitely be destroyed.
Iran hit Israel with around 200 ballistic missiles last week after Israel killed Hezbollah leader Hassan Nasrallah using several bunker busting bombs and wounded thousands of Hezbollah members by making their pagers explode.
Iran has vowed to stand by their longtime allies, Hezbollah, providing medical help to many of those wounded in the pager attacks and even bringing some to one of Iran's holiest sites, the Imam Reza Shrine in the city of Mashhad.
As a major military confrontation with Israel looms, Iran's new president on a diplomatic mission, trying to drum up support among Tehran's allies, meeting Russian leader Vladimir Putin as ties between the two U.S. adversaries are increasingly growing stronger.
VLADIMIR PUTIN, RUSSIAN PRESIDENT (through translator): We are actively working together on the international arena and our views of events in the world are often very close.
MASOUD PEZESHKIAN, IRANIAN PRESIDENT (through translator): The situation in the region's difficult now, and the U.S. and Europe do not want the situation here to subside.
PLEITGEN: A situation that could soon escalate even more as Iran has vowed a crushing response to any attacks by Israel.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PLEITGEN (on camera): And, you know, Pamela, the Iranians are saying that if Israel, for instance, targets Iranian oil and gas installations, that in the future, the Iranians might target not only Israeli military installations, but possibly Israel's energy sector as well, Pamela.
BROWN: All right. Fred Pleitgen, thank you so much.
And thank you for joining us.
"AC360" starts right now.
