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Erin Burnett Outfront
Harris To Trump: "Enough" Of Gaslighting; Israel Releases Drone Video It Says Shows Sinwar's Final Moments. Aired 7-8p ET
Aired October 17, 2024 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[19:00:32]
ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST: OUTFRONT next:
Mark Cuban, who's on the campaign trail now with Kamala Harris tonight is my guest on why he's backing Harris over Trump, and those nasty tweets from Elon Musk.
Plus, Donald Trump dodging debates and canceling and major interviews. But our KFILE found that Trump himself has called out candidates for not debating, quote, saying they have no courage. We've got new reporting coming into OUTFRONT.
BURNETT: And more breaking news tonight, the Israeli military just releasing video of Hamas leader Yahya Sinwar's final moments, they say.
Let's go OUTFRONT.
Good evening. I'm Erin Burnett.
And OUTFRONT tonight, enough. Vice President Kamala Harris tonight ripping Donald Trump to shreds in Wisconsin, saying, she says enough of the gaslighting.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KAMALA HARRIS, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES & 2024 PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I want and intend to be a president for all Americans. And no matter their political party, where they live, or where they get their news, okay? And on that point, last night, you may have seen, I went on Fox News.
(CHEERING)
HARRIS: And while I was doing that, Donald Trump was at a Univision town hall where a voter asked him about January 6. Okay.
So, now we here know January 6 was a tragic day. It was a day of terrible violence. There were attacks on law enforcement, 140 law enforcement officers were injured. Some were killed, and what did Donald Trump say last night about January 6? He called it a, quote, a day of love.
(BOOS) HARRIS: But it points out something that everyone here knows, the American people are exhausted with his gaslighting, exhausted with his gaslighting. Enough!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: And Harris, obviously, that was early in her schedule today. She will be momentarily speaking in Green Bay, Wisconsin, had just a few moments and were going to bring you those remarks live along with those of former President Trump later on tonight.
But you heard areas mentioned that combative Fox interview last night and the crowd roaring in approval. And while Harris crossed into unfriendly territory for that interview, Trump today is doing the opposite. So there is now 192 goes into days to go until the election and today, Trump canceled another major interview. Our Brian Stelter is reporting this time it was with NBC in our former colleague, Christine Romans. It comes after canceling an interview with CNBC that was supposed to take place tomorrow, and that was very interesting.
I mean, the Harris campaigns taking notice posting an image today pointing at all the appearance is Trump is canceled in recent weeks and asking, you know, is he okay?
For the most part, Trump is now seeking safety in these final days in the campaign, surrounding himself with people who support him. Here he is today on a conservative podcast.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So you got -- he won in business, he won in media, he won in politics. Again, there's never been a person who's done that.
DONALD TRUMP, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT & 2024 PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: You -- you're like a psychiatrist for a lot of people.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: And then there was this Fox town news hall with women yesterday. Now, it was a town hall that was full of local Republican supporters. The thing is though, that Fox even edited the broadcast, they edited to remove some of the participants vocal support of Trump. That is reporting from our Hadas Gold.
And while Trump is avoiding the tough questions, Harris is now taking them head-on. I mean, just you know, take this exchange about immigration on Fox.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HARRIS: You know what I'm going to talk about --
BRET BAIER, FOX NEWS HOST: Yeah, but just that number. Do you think it's 1 million, 3 million.
HARRIS: Bret, let's just get to the point.
BAIER: So, your homeland security secretary said that 85 percent of apprehensions --
(CROSSTALK)
HARRIS: Well, I'm not finished, I'm not finished. We have --we have an immigration system --
BAIER: Rough estimate of 6 million people have been released into the country. And let me just finish, I'll get to the question. I promise you.
HARRIS: I was beginning to answer --
(CROSSTALK)
BAIER: And when you can -- yes, ma'am.
HARRIS: May I finish -- may I finish responding please?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURENTT: Eva McKend is OUTFRONT live in Green Bay where Harris is about to speak.
And, Eva, what are you hearing on the ground in Wisconsin.
EVA MCKEND, CNN NATIONAL POLITICS CORREESPONDENT: So, Erin, I get the sense that Democratic voters here are cautiously optimistic. I just spoke to a woman. She's in her 60s. She's a nurse. She told me that reproductive rights is her number one issue, but she also likes that the vice president is making these very explicit appeals to Republicans.
She says he is making similar appeals to her colleagues at work. Some of her Republican colleague, she said that a colleague of hers said that she was making well be waiting to buy a house until the Republican returned to the White House and she told her, listen, the vice president has an economic plan, has a housing plan that person this woman that I spoke to is really the model voter here for the campaign as Vice President Harris tries to characterize herself as a consensus candidate, someone who is willing to work with both Democrats and Republicans, someone who was centering her economic vision.
We see this in Wisconsin. We'll see it tomorrow in Michigan, talking about manufacturing, protecting workers, entrepreneurship. She was on a college campus today here in the state with Mark Cuban emphasizing these issues. And I'll end with this, Erin.
She's also leading on Wisconsinites to make a plan to vote. Early voting begins in this next week, and then same-day voting is also available here, so people can show up on Election Day and still be able to participate in the process -- Erin. BURNETT: All right. Eva, thank you very much. In a moment ago, we
were showing the vice presidents plane landing where you are. She'll be speaking momentarily. We'll take that when she does, but she has landed in Green Bay. That is the -- that is the plane. And she'll be getting off soon and speaking.
So as I said, we will be taking that along with the former president later on tonight. Thank you, Eva.
And OUTFRONT now, billionaire/businessman Mark Cuban.
And, Mark, I appreciate your time. I know you've been supporting Harris since she got into the race. You're now officially on the campaign trail with her for the first time. How come? Why are you out on the trail?
MARK CUBAN, ENTREPRENEUR, CAMPAIGNING FOR HARRIS: I love what she's doing for small business and obviously I think this election is critically important and if we want businesses to succeed, particularly entrepreneurs and small business, Kamala Harris is the only choice.
BURNETT: So I know you're focusing on small business, so let me ask you what I know. You hear from many when you say you support Harris. You said you support her. You just said now small business, but also because you don't think she's an in ideologue.
But that is exactly the criticism others have. They said she lacks conviction, that she has flip-flopped. So I'm just going to play a few of those flip flops for you, Mark, that I'm sure you hear a lot about and give you a chance to respond. Here she is.
CUBAN: Sure.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HARRIS: There's no question I'm in favor of banning fracking.
As vice president, I did not ban fracking. As president, I will not ban fracking.
I am in favor of saying that we're not going to treat people who are undocumented across the borders criminal. That's correct.
I do not believe in decriminalizing border crossings and I've not done that as vice president and I will not do that as president.
I took on big oil companies and won.
We have had the largest increase in domestic oil production in history because of an approach that recognizes that we cannot over-rely on foreign oil.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Mark, how do voters know that if they vote for Harris, she's going to do an office what she's saying she'll do now?
CUBAN: Oh, that's easy. I mean, the one thing about Kamala, she's open-minded. She's very clear in saying she wants to take feedback from anybody. I'm not a Democrat, I'm an independent and she says she's going to have a Republican in her cabinet.
So when she talks about how she's evolved on the issues -- that's not a bad thing. That's a good thing. That means she's listening as opposed to her opponent, who listens to no one about anything.
I mean, yes, he's had the same positions, but he hasn't involved in at all. You know, Kamala talks about using A.I. to improve permitting, to reduce friction in government, to cut cost in government, A.I. wasn't effective, didn't really exist five years ago when she was running just things evolved and you need somebody who's open minded who recognizes that and who will take input from anybody.
BURNETT: So when it comes to criminalizing and not and not criminalizing crossing the border -- I mean, that is just so stark, but you view that as an evolution?
CUBAN: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, look, here's my opinion. I'm not speaking for the campaign with this.
BURNETT: Yeah.
CUBAN: I thought their hearts were too big when Joe came into office that they didn't know how many people would cross the border. And he got away from them. But they figured it out. They learned.
And what did they do? He put together an executive order and now the number of border crossings is down to where they were in the Trump may be a little lower. She says she's going to sign the border bill, which is very clear where she stands now.
But let me tell you, Erin, the most important thing that has not been discussed Donald Trump Kamala both have said, when it comes to illegals that are in the country that have violated the law, they're criminals -- they're going to deport them.
[19:10:01]
Donald Trump hasn't said what he's going to do to deport anybody else. Is he going to do like they did to Elian Gonzalez, the little six- year-old kid in Miami when they sent in the militia to go pull them out? That would not surprise me. And the downscale impact of taking the militia to go hunt people down and pulled them out of their homes.
What do you think that community is going to do? What do you think you would do with someone dragged your cousin, your nephew, your niece, whatever out of your house?
I don't think he's thought this through, whereas Vice President Harris, you know, she understands that this has to be a consistent program that everybody understands that is put forward, that everybody can feel safe with, but that you have to follow law. You have to go through the front door. You have to follow the legal processes.
But she's not going to send them militia to pull people out of their homes like Donald Trump might.
BURNETT: So you mentioned that she said shed have a Republican serving her cabinet. She has said that. I know you're an independent, but would you serve in her administration?
CUBAN: No. I'll make a lousy employee, shown up with a suit, you know, go into meetings, that is not me. I -- like we've talked about, I have costplusdrugs.com, which is literally changing the pharmaceutical industry and saving patients millions dollars and that, that is my focus right now.
I truly want to change the health care industry and the good news is because Kamala is not an ideologue. We have talked about this and we have talked about ways that she can transparency in eliminating pharmacy benefit managers, the middlemen, to cut household pharmacy costs by 20, 30 percent. So I think she gets that. I can have more impact side rather than inside.
BURNETT: So your fellow billionaire, Elon Musk, he's all in for Trump, of course. He's been at a rally on stage with Trump in that moment, jumping up and down. He did an event for Trump today. But obviously you and he have been feuding on social media and he tweeted a video of you and Rachel Maddow last night.
He commented, quote, they remind me of a lesbian couple from Portland to which you responded. You can't stop thinking about me, Elon Musk. Can you? It's okay. I understand. If I supported a candidate that was so incompetent, I had to take over and fund their ground game. I'd be looking for a distraction, too.
Mark, were you surprised by his post?
CUBAN: Oh, no. No. I mean, Elon has posted about me. I don't even know how many times. He's called me a racist, a turd and imbecile. I don't know, all the different names he's calling me, which gave me the standing and say, okay, you think about me all the time. That's Elon.
Look, Elon, is probably the greatest entrepreneur of our generation and maybe the last hundred years. But that doesn't take away from the fact that he is a troll. He is a world-class troll, and the best way to deal with trolls is to troll them right back.
And when I said I meant, right, for Donald Trump to pretend that he's a CEO and knows how run an organization and then just leave his organization hanging, so that Elon Musk not only has to take over his ground game, but fund it? I mean, that's just insane.
I mean, literally, if he is the CEO, he pretends to be Donald Trump should say no, I don't want you involve. Yeah, I'll take your money to help it but why do I need you? Because I know how to make this work.
Elon is only there helping them specifically because Donald has no clue and he did an interview with Ben Shapiro, where Ben Shapiro said I've heard different things about your ground game. Can you speak to it? Donald Trump avoided the question completely, or maybe he didn't understand it.
BURNETT: All right. Well, Mark, I appreciate your time. Thank you.
CUBAN: Always, Erin. Thanks for having me on.
BURNETT: All right. And as we're just finishing there, Kamala Harris did get off her plan in Green Bay, as I said, we're going to be taking those remarks live momentarily. There she is, getting off her Air Force II.
Let's go to Harry Enten now, he joins me now from the magic wall. And obviously, she's now in Wisconsin. He's just going to speak and she'll be in Michigan tomorrow, Harry, so is Trump.
But let's just take a step back here from, as you see it, can she get to 270 without those states?
HARRY ENTEN, CNN SENIOR DATA REPORTER: It'll be very tough, Erin.
So let's sort of -- look, were going to look at the road to 270 electoral votes, we'll give Donald Trump the state of Georgia where he's leading the polls, will give him North Carolina where he has perhaps a slight advantage in the polls, and will give him the state of Arizona where he has a slight advantage in the polls. That gets him to 262 electoral votes.
Kamala Harris has path to 270 electoral votes, runs through the Great Lakes, right? We've been talking a ton about Pennsylvania, right? Let's give her that. We'll give her Michigan as well. And then we'll give her Wisconsin.
What does that get Kamala Harris to? Exactly 270 electoral votes.
Now, if she loses in Wisconsin, or turn that state red, now all of a sudden, Donald Trump gets to 272 electoral votes. Now, Kamala Harris can get back to 270 by winning Wisconsin. All right? Or, excuse me, winning Arizona. That gets her to 271 electoral votes.
But now, if we take away Michigan is well as Wisconsin, what happened Donald Trump gets to 276 electoral votes, even if Kamala Harris were say to win in Nevada, that only gets her 262. Now she has to win down here in the Southeast, either Georgia, we can give her that, that would get her to 278 electoral votes, or if we were in fact to give her North Carolina, that would get her to 278 electoral votes.
But the bottom line here are in is really simple. Kamala Harris is best path moves through the great lakes if she loses in Wisconsin and Michigan, then she asked completely changed things up and it's a much more difficult road to 270.
BURNETT: Right. And ironically also, the fastest path because still take days, but all of a sudden, when you start, you know, wading on states like Nevada, North Carolina, you have to be waiting weeks. All right. So we talked a lot here. You've done a lot of reporting on
the math of this Harris's outreach to Black voters, and she's been working at turnout and turning people over, right? Winning people over Black men specifically.
But in Wisconsin and where she is tonight in Green Bay, you believe its white voters who will get her over the finish line if she wins?
ENTEN: That's exactly right. So let's take a look at Wisconsin. What's going on in Wisconsin. We'll look at white voters in Wisconsin.
You go back to the result in 2020, right? Donald Trump won by five points. You look at where the polling averages today. Donald Trumps only up by a point.
Why is that so important? Because take a look here, look at the swing states. White voters in the swing states. Look what percentage white voters make up in Wisconsin, 88 percent, 10 points more than any other swing-state, far more than Georgia 56 or Arizona at 64, white voters are very important in Wisconsin and Kamala Harris is doing better than Joe Biden did four years ago.
BURNETT: And to 88 percent. That's -- it's sometimes numbers just give you pause and make you think.
All right, so then you go to Michigan. You're talking about the path through the Great Lakes, Harry, but I'm curious about one place in Michigan because Harris and Trump are both going to be there tomorrow. So broken be in the same place, the same day, not just the same state, that same county, Oakland County. What makes that county so important?
ENTEN: What makes Oakland so important? Well, look at this, look how many votes that are at 434,000 that Joe Biden got, 325,000. Trump got. Joe Biden did very well there, won it by 14 points, considerably better than Hillary Clinton did four years prior, which she only won it by eight.
So the bottom line is Kamala Harris, Oakland County, very important.
BURNETT: It's amazing. And it all comes down to that justice, such small specifics that's what it takes to win.
Harry, thank you.
ENTEN: Thank you.
BURNETT: And next, Trump refusing to debate Harris for a second time. But tonight, our KFILE is uncovering audio of the foreign president and you're going to want to see what he had to say about people who refused to debate.
Plus, Harris taking on hecklers, and trolling Trump.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HARRIS: No, I think you meant to go to smaller one down the street. (END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: And breaking news, the Israeli military just releasing new video, it says, shows Hamas leader Yahya Sinwar moments before he was killed.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:22:12]
BURNETT: Tonight, no courage. KFILE tonight unearthing an interview where Donald Trump uses those words, taking on candidates who won't debate, openly mocking them, saying they don't have courage.
Listen.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
TRUMP: And, you know, some of them don't have the courage to do it. I don't want to say who, but there are a couple of --
DON IMUS, RADIO HOST: We know who -- we know who they are.
TRUMP: I mean, there a couple of them that called me and told me, I just, Donald, I'm just too nervous to do it. And I'm saying to myself, here's a guy who's supposed to negotiate or a person that's supposed to negotiate against China. These guys come out of the womb, they never cry. You know, they're not even crying and we have guys that are afraid to go into a debate.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
BURNETT: Andrew Kaczynski of the KFILE joins me now.
So, Andrew, you found these old tapes. They don't have the courage to do it. What else did you find?
ANDREW KACZYNSKI, CNN KFILE SENIOR EDITOR: Yes. You heard him right there. Those who don't debate -- don't have the courage to essentially negotiate with China. That is what Donald Trump said there. And where do we find Donald Trump today now declining to participate in that third and would have probably been final presidential debate.
What is the context here for him making these remarks? Well, Donald Trump himself actually was supposed to host a presidential debate during the 2012 Republican primary. This was in December 2011. All of the major candidates turned him down. Donald Trump was not too happy about that as we heard, Donald Trump being Donald Trump, did a number of interviews where he took these people to tasks, including getting this one right here.
Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: You're not seeing a lot of courage here, are we? UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I mean, not so far.
TRUMP: Not lots of courage. These Republicans, they're supposed to be brave.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KACZYNSKI: And, look, Erin, people might say, well, you know, Donald Trump, he's debated Joe Biden, debated Kamala Harris. They've already done two debates.
Those candidates who he was criticizing, I did look it up because I remember there were so many debates during that primary. Remember like Herman Cain, Newt Gingrich, Rick Santorum, they had debated before that debate, I think 11 times already.
BURNETT: Yeah. Well, I mean, sure. Wish that he had said yes, that debate we would have been very happy to host it. But he didn't.
So, Trump's campaigns respond to what you found today, right? That he said that people who don't debate lack courage, what did they say?
KACZYNSKI: So we actually put this question of this audio to both campaigns. And let's take a look at both of their responses here. Here is what the Trump campaign told us that the senior adviser, they said President Trump has already won two debates this election cycle, and he's proven he is the best negotiator on the world stage.
We put that question to the Harris campaign as well. They had a somewhat different answer saying, you don't hear it from us very often, but he was right back then. If you're too weak to share a debate stage with your opponent, you are too weak to lead the country.
BURNETT: I'm glad you asked both because we had to go to the border opinions.
KACZYNSKI: We have to get both their opinions on it.
BURNETT: Yes. Yes. Yes, absolutely.
[19:25:00]
All right. Andrew Kaczynski, KFILE, thank you.
And next, Elon Musk headlining his first campaign event tonight. Just how much can he sway the election in some of these crucial battleground states, he's going to be in Pennsylvania.
Plus, breaking news, we have new video tonight from the Israeli military which claims to show Hamas leader Yahya Sinwar the moments before he was killed.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BURNETT: Breaking news, the Israeli military releasing new video purportedly showing Hamas leader Yahya Sinwar's final moments. You see a drone flying through a damaged building Israel says that the man they're sitting alone looking towards the drone, Sinwar. And then you see him throw that piece of wood towards the drone, right? He's well aware of what this drone would mean.
I mean, it's pretty incredible to think about this is you could advocate a drone, threw a building like this. This is where he is sitting by himself when all of it just bears watching again and again and again as we play it.
And Israel says, Sinwar was trying to escape to the north when he was killed in Rafah, in Southern Gaza. And U.S. officials are now vowing to intensify efforts to negotiate a ceasefire and hostage deal.
[19:30:02]
Vice President Kamala Harris tonight calling for an end to the war.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HARRIS: This moment gives us an opportunity to finally end the war in Gaza, and it must end such that Israel is secure. The hostages are released. The suffering in Gaza ends, and the Palestinian people can realize their right to dignity, security, freedom, and self- determination. And it is time for the day after to begin.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Nic Robertson is OUTFRONT.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: Once dubbed by the IDF, a dead man walking, the IDF says, these Yahya Sinwar's final moments recorded by a drone in the Gaza house, where he died.
According to the IDF, he was discovered during a routine patrol, the building hit by tank fire, his body but he spotted in the rubble.
YOAV GALLANT, DEFENSE MINISTER OF ISRAEL: Sinwar died well-beaten, persecuted, and on the run. He didn't die as a commander, but as someone who only cared for himself.
ROBERTSON: In life, Sinwar had cultivated a tough image, feared, unfettered at home in Gaza, universally reviled by Israelis, vilified for his leading role in Hamas's brutal October 7 slaughter of at least 1,200 people in Israel.
Journalist Ehud Yaari was one of the few Israelis who met him.
EHUD YAARI, ISRAELI JOURNALIST: When I was talking to him, he always insisted that we speak Hebrew and not Arabic.
ROBERTSON: Yaari interviewed Sinwar four times while the terror leader was in jail, convicted of playing a role in the killing of two Israelis and four suspected Palestinian informers. YAARI: He was ruthless. He used to send people to kill those
prisoners whom he suspected of passing information to the intelligence of the prison service.
ROBERTSON: Born in a Gaza refugee camp to parents who fled their home in what is now Israel in 1948, following the Jewish state's creation, Sinwar's cause was to reverse those land losses.
Hamas was the vehicle to do it. He rose through its ranks as an enforcer, becoming Gaza leader in 2017. His message, uncompromising.
During fighting in 2021, the IDF bombed his house. A week later, at a rare press conference, he goaded the IDF to take a second shot, saying he would walk home. His luck finally running out now.
In Israel, people are celebrating. The prime minister warning them, it may be premature. The fight with Hamas not done, offering them survival or be chased down like Sinwar.
BENJAMIN NETANYAHU, ISRAELI PRIME MINISTER: I call on everyone who holds our hostages, whoever lays down his weapon and returns the hostages, we will allow him to go out and live.
ROBERTSON: Hostage families again, calling for Netanyahu to get their loved ones home any price.
Sinwar may be dead, but the politics of both sides hasn't changed. It's far from clear Hamas will listen to Netanyahu and far from clear Netanyahu will see the U.S. wishes, make this the moment to and the Gaza war.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BURNETT: I mean, Nic, that footage is absolutely incredible. The footage of what the IDF says is the drone as it was flying and filming Sinwar them throwing that piece of wood and as I said, I've watched it 15 times. I'm going to keep watching another something about it.
Who is most likely though to succeed him and what does that say about what's next?
ROBERTSON: Yeah, one of them could be as brother Mohammed Sinwar, and they've been joined at the hip, rising through the ranks together. They fought together and right now his brother Mohammed is the head of the military wing of Hamas. So, and oftentimes, the IDF believes that they travel, that they had traveled around together.
So if he steps in, he's going to be hard line like Sinwar, we can expect that.
The next one would be Khalil Al-Hayya. Now, he's been the new number two since the old number two was killed, has been helping lead the negotiations and se seen as a bit more of a moderate than Sinwar, but that's hard to judge and its not really clear that he has the same kind of charisma with the fighters that Sinwar had. And then the other person kind of thrown into the mix, somebody that Qataris might turn to as they tried to pressure Hamas to make a deal because they're trying to deliver on what the United States wants here, which end of the war in Gaza, Khaled Meshaal.
[19:35:10]
He was a former head of Hamas, has been, has been an exile and outside of -- outside of Israel for many, many years, decades. But right now is living in Doha, in Qatar. And therefore, if he were picked, then he might be the one that could be the most moderate of all of those. But right now is just frankly unclear.
BURNETT: Right. Unclear, and, of course, Sinwar had had opted to stay there in Gaza throughout this war.
Nic, thank you very much.
And next, Vice President Kamala Harris is there on site about let's take the stage at any moment in Green Bay, and we're going to bring you those remarks right after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:40:16]
BURNETT: Breaking news, these are live pictures of where Kamala Harris will be speaking in just a few moments. This is her third and final rally of the day in the battleground state of Wisconsin.
She is there. She will be speaking any moment and at an earlier rally, just a little moment happened here. She was very quick to shut down a group of anti-abortion protesters who interrupted her speech. And then she trolled Donald Trump in the process.
Let me just play the exchange.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HARRIS: Oh, you guys are trolling a rally? No, I think you meant to go to the smaller one down the street.
(CHEERING)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: OUTFRONT now, Alyssa Farah Griffin, former Trump White House communications director, David Urban, former Trump campaign adviser and Lulu Garcia-Navarro, podcast host at "The New York Times".
Okay, thanks to all.
So, Alyssa, that was a clip -- that was a clever way of shutting down hecklers and she's usually very quick to have a quip on that.
ALYSSA FARAH GRIFFIN, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: She's had a few of these moments. She's had them with Palestine protesters in the past. In this case, there were anti abortion activists and I think that she honestly thrives on the campaign stump and not so much in some of these interviews that she's doing.
This is something that her campaign is we doing day in, day out up until election? And day is getting her in front of big audiences where she can yes. Be on script, but riff at -- riff at moments.
And those seem to pack a lot more of a punch than interviews where she has had some stumbles of stepping on what should be easy questions like distancing herself from Joe Biden's agenda, among other thing.
BURNETT: All right. So, David, here's the thing, the whole thing that she did there, you know, going to a smaller rally down the street. There's a quickness there and a wit that you could see Trump if he were honest with himself, would admire.
But there is nothing that gets him more riled up than somebody questioning the size of his crowds, right? That is -- that is sort of his third rail. And that's right where she went.
DAVID URBAN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, Erin, what I what I saw was something completely different, right? So where is Kamala Harris? Not tonight. She's not in New York City at the Al Smith Dinner, the Catholic Charities fundraiser, which every presidential candidate since in the past 40 years has been at Hillary Clinton, Joe Biden, everybody's gone. Kamala Harris isn't there.
And so she's -- she's at this rally wherever she is in Wisconsin tonight doing this. And you know what she's doing, she's saying we don't have a big tent. She's -- she's mocking people who you maybe pro-choice -- I mean, excuse me, pro-life Democrats. She's shutting him down.
She's trying to win over Catholic voters? You remember, they used to be a big tent. Bob Casey's father, Governor Casey, was not allowed to talk at the Democratic Convention because he was too pro-choice, excuse me, to pro-life. And this party clearly isn't that same spot where the current presidential candidate does it want to hear dissent about abortion, mocks those people and skips the biggest Catholic dinner in the United States, which every candidate has gone too. I think it's pretty telling where she is and what she's saying.
BURNETT: Well, that dinner is, of course, and you're right about it. It's past.
Lulu?
LULU GARCIA-NAVARRO, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I guess I would say as a Catholic that I don't think that that's what she was up to. I think when you have hecklers, she did it with a sense of humor. She did it with a quip and she tried to punch where it hurts Trump the most, which is his crowd size. She did it in the debate and he rose to the bait.
And listen, this is what you should be doing. She should be trying to drive the news cycle. She should be getting people talking about her. There are no big moments left and so this is the kind of thing where she does well.
And I think going to the dinner in New York isn't going to help her. This isn't going to be necessarily a friendly crowd for her and so I think she's doing what she needs to be doing, which is actually stumping in swing states.
BURNETT: All right, so, Alyssa and, by the way, Trump is in New York tonight and he's going to be out tomorrow in Michigan. She is going to be there. I mean, they're both out there but obviously he is in New York at that dinner tonight.
So I was talking to Mark Cuban. He's out for the first time campaigning with Kamala Harris. He'd endorsed her, but the first time he's on the stage and obviously it comes on the heels of Elon Musk's moment on the stage with Trump and Musk now doing the series of appearances in Pennsylvania.
I love that moment. I know people mock it. I actually love it in a non-mock it way. There's something about it, it captures a human.
All right, the question is, who is the more valuable surrogate?
GRIFFIN: Well, it's a great question, so an open question in this election is this battle for the disillusion young white male vote, low propensity voters who feel maybe unhappy in their station in life, in Elon Musk and Donald Trump have really tried to reach out to these folks. There's a reason Donald Trump went on the Nelk Boys podcasts and some of these other right-of-center sort of the Joe Rogan/Barstool Sports kind of audience that he's talking to.
[19:45:08]
And he is thinking, the strategy is they might be able to make up their massive deficit with female voters by turning out some of these young white male voters who don't generally vote. On the flip side, a Mark Cuban is an excellent foil against this. I actually talked to him yesterday. He was on "The View" and off air, he was sharing he's been doing all these podcasts himself as well. He is engaging the voters directly because what does he sell? The same thing Elon Musk does. He is aspirational, he's the American dream.
So I think it's a really powerful tool to call for Kamala Harris to blunt the Elon Musk aspect.
BURNETT: Right? And now, he's actually on the trail.
You know, David, let me just play something else that Cuban said about Musk. This was specifically about how Musk endorsed Trump, given his super PAC, by the way, about $75 million, talk about putting your money where your mouth is, drop in the bucket for him, but still a stunning amount of money. Here's what Cuban said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) CUBAN: For Donald Trump to pretend that he's a CEO and knows how to run an organization, and then just leave his organization hanging so that Elon Musk not only has to take over his brown game, but fund it? I mean, that's just insane. I mean, literally, if he is the CEO he pretends to be, Donald Trump should say no, I don't want you involve. Yes, I'll take your money to help it. But why do I need you? Because I know how to make this work.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURENTT: So, David, what do you say to Mark?
URBAN: Yeah. Well, Mark Cuban is obviously -- listen, he obviously knows nothing about politics, right? So to assume that Kamala Harris, Joe Biden, Barack Obama, any political candidate who's running for president can explain and go granular detail their GOTV plan for the last 72 hours, or their ground game in granular details, it's just -- it's just farcical.
You know, so I -- look, Mark Cuban's a nice guy. I know him a little bit, sticks to "Shark Tank," stick to investing. He's out of his depth here. This is what happens, it happens the times every, you know, he's a smart guy, thinks he knows everything about everything of Donald Trump has a brand.
BURNETT: Well, isn't Elon Musk someone who's saying he knows everything about everything? And by the way, I will say Mark Cuban did say --
(CROSSTALK)
BURNETT: -- Elon Musk is one of the great geniuses the past 100 years in business, right? So I understand. He's polymath.
However, running the political scene is also different than the genius required to launch rockets and build cars.
URBAN: I don't -- I don't disagree. Elon musk is a genius about everything he's probably -- as Mark Cuban said in your interview one of the greatest entrepreneurs and greatest -- greatest minds probably in a century, going back to, you know, kind of like --some of the other --
GARCIA-NAVARRO: He's also deeply problematic. He's also deeply problematic. He's a deeply problematic figure, deeply polarizing, his own, you know, he's taken over Twitter, a formally, and you know, X.
URBAN: He's a hero, he's a hero to millions, Lulu.
GARCIA-NAVARRO: I'm not saying that he's not, but I'm also saying that he's not, you know, this kind of messiah that is going to really resolve things for Donald Trump. at the end of the day, Mark Cuban as a good surrogate.
I think actually the best surrogate for Kamala Harris would be Michelle Obama, better than her husband at this point. But at the end of the day, listen, you need to bring people in who are
going to speak to the constituencies that you want to move and Mark Cuban is a proven quantity.
GRIFFIN: Well, in the different here, if I may just add is --- David, just real quick.
URBAN: But, Lulu, who do you think is going to win that argument? Mark Cuban or Mark Cuban are okay.
(CROSSTALK)
GRIFFIN: David, the difference is that is Mark Cuban is campaigning for Kamala Harris on what she's running on. Elon Musk is directing Donald Trump on many of his policy initiatives. Many of the statements that he's making. I would argue that he in many ways has a heavier hand in what Donald Trump is doing as opposed to just simply being a powerful surrogate for him.
GARCIA-NAVARRO: And also, I mean, lets be honest here. This is the battle of the billionaires and that is a very small persuadable group of people. What people want to hear is about the economy. They want to hear how these candidates are going to make their personal lives better.
Elon Musk and Mark Cuban, frankly, don't speak to that. They are aspirational figures, but they really aren't exactly going to persuade people that these candidates have their best interests.
BURNETT: So, Lulu, let me ask you one thing and then David give you a chance --
URBAN: Oh, I disagree.
BURNETT: -- Lulu, a Democratic senator, who is actually very concerned about Musk's ability to persuade voters in a crucial a must- win space, it's to state. I'm sorry, John Fetterman.
GARCIA-NAVARRO: Yeah. That's right. I spoke to Senator John Fetterman about interviews coming out in about a week and he is very concerned. He says that a lot of people view Elon Musk like Tony Stark to bring in a Marvel reference here in Iron Man. And they see him as this aspirational figure. And they do see that he might be persuadable for voters.
That is something specifically in Pennsylvania, white working class men in particular and so well, you know, he is concerned about the Musk effect.
[19:50:06]
I don't know. We'll have to wait and see. I think the two billionaires might cancel each other out.
BURNETT: Okay. David?
URBAN: I was going to -- I was going to make John Fetterman's arguments -- thanks, Senator Fetterman.
Listen, I like John Fetterman more and more every time I hear him talk, I like him. I ended up supporting him, who knows? He's great. He seems great.
BURNETT: All right, so you agree on that by the way, I should say, Alyssa, as we're looking at this rally under the shots coming in and out here in just a few moments, we do expect the vice president to be speaking, the man who is going to be speaking now will be introducing her.
But I am curious, Alyssa, what you think is at stake here. We were just -- Harry was reporting on Oakland County in Michigan, and just how crucial this one county -- you've got Trump and Harris going there tomorrow. That both candidates seem to see, right now whether, whether out of nervousness or everything all in that these Midwestern states or the place they not speak.
GRIFFIN: Well, and I think that we've always talked about must win Pennsylvania and Pennsylvania matters more than any other state, but the blue wall is showing some cracks and I think Kamala Harris sees that. I think her internal polling demonstrates that, which is why she's been between Michigan and Wisconsin the last few days, and I think, while she does have more options and more paths than Donald Trump. She could pick up some of the Sun Belt.
This is very key for her. She does not want to be in a position Hillary Clinton was in 2016 of waking up realized she lost Michigan. So this is where I would expect you're going to see your quite a bit going forward.
BURNETT: And, David, same -- same place tomorrow. Same exact place.
URBAN: Yeah, so Donald Trump gets it. He's going there, he's going to be at the Pittsburgh Steelers game on Sunday, shows you -- you know, the good thing about Trump is he's really getting, getting the culture references a guarantee will be waving terrible Talon Sunday at Pittsburgh, a little bit entire stadium full of people voting for him right then and there. But hopefully they will be passing out ballots and makeup people vote early.
BURNETT: You know, Lulu, to this point about how Trump is spending time at Pittsburgh Steelers game this weekend, he was at a barbershop in the Bronx earlier today. He is going to be we understand appearing at a McDonald's operating friar coming up in the next couple of days.
Do they this is the I believe the video outside the barbershop in the Bronx. What do they think they're moving with this, Lulu? Because they're all the same thing.
GARCIA-NAVARRO: Yeah, I actually think it's a smart strategy. I mean, it's trying to show Donald Trump in a relatable way in places that you might not expect him to see. We all know that Donald Trump loves this McDonald's and so having an operating a fryer also tries to undercut the Kamala Harris story about her working at a McDonald's growing up. I mean, this is all the last few days of the campaign. Everyone is trying to just move the needle in any way that they can capture the attention get people to sort of come out and vote. But at the end of the day, I'm just not convinced about persuadable voters. I'm very convinced about who's going to come out and actually show the enthusiasm, really want to vote and be there for the candidate.
And so, you know, that remains to be seen. I have no prognostications on that. But, you know, women are the vote or the bloc that really Harris is counting on. And men are the bloc that Donald Trump is counting on.
And that's why you've seen him at a Steelers game.
BURNETT: All right. So can I just ask you, David? Good. Go ahead.
URBAN: I was going to say, look, Donald Trump is the king of the OTRS events, the off the record stops at the barbershop and McDonald's, at a Steelers game he is incredibly relatable and people love him and he does an incredible job.
You might remember back McDonald's stop that he did at East Palestine, Ohio, when he put his arm around the owner/operator and kind of joked with a look at that manually said, id bet I know this menu better. Do you do to the owner operator? They both kind of chuckled at it.
That's kind of stuff. You cant you can't train somebody. You can't coach that. That's Donald Trumps innate ability to connect with people and Lulu correctly points out, getting people to the polls motivating their base and motivate their voters is what needs to be done in these closing days. And that's where Trump is doing and I think he's doing a pretty good job at it.
GRIFFIN: Well, Urban, you're absolutely right that Trump is the master of TV and creating moments. But does that translate to votes is what I would, I would wonder. He's dodge mainstream media interviews.
URBAN: But that's what, that's Lulu correctly pointed out, you've got to motivate your base to get out and they're trying to do.
BURNETT: And she's walking out here right now to that large crowds, are not going to try to hazard a guess here on crowd, crowd-size. Our Eva McKend, is there.
URBAN: Thirty-five hundred people, Erin, 3,500.
BURNETT: All right. And a union leader just introduced her by the way, I think it's interesting to our conversation he brought up Elon Musk. I find that interesting and all the conversations I have with people who have worked with him on both sides of the aisle, political leaders. There is a real hesitancy to just say nasty things about Elon Musk because they have worked with them because of his genius and his success and the many --
GARCIA-NAVARRO: He's a government contractor. I mean, the government pays him a lot of money for Starlink and all sorts of things, you know. So I mean, obviously, he has --
BURNETT: What she's done a lot.
URBAN: He's saving stranded Americans in space?
BURNETT: Yes.
URBAN: Just like we have people stranded in space.
GARCIA-NAVARRO: I think that people who work for him are saving people in space, but yes.
BURNETT: All right.
Here's the vice president. Let's listen to her speak live here at this rally in Green Bay.
HARRIS: Good evening, everyone. Hey, Jim, thank you. Come here, Jim, again.
(APPLAUSE)
HARRIS: It's good to be back. Hey, everybody. Hey, Green Bay.
(CHEERING)
HARRIS: Hey, so many of you may know, when I was 5-years-old, we live Wisconsin.
My parents taught for a short time here and now, every time I land, Governor Evers will me and he'll say welcome home.
So, but it's so good to be back with everyone and thank you all for taking the time out of your busy lives to be here this evening. Thank you all. Thank you. Thank you.
And it's great to be with this incredible group of leaders, including, of course, Ben Wikler, chair of the Wisconsin Democratic Party. Here he is, Ben.
Kristin Lyerly who we need to send to the United States Congress.
(CHEERING)
HARRIS: And Green Bay, lets reelect someone who has spent her career fighting for Wisconsin families and manufacturing right here in Wisconsin, your senator, Tammy Baldwin.
(CHEERING)
HARRIS: We need her back in .D.C.
We are also joined by tribal leaders, including President Holsey, who is here from this Stockbridge Munsee Band of Mohican Indians.
And I will say, Madam President, that I strongly believe that the relationship between tribal nations in the United States is sacred, and that we must honor tribal sovereignty, embrace trust and treaty obligations and ensure tribal self-determination. And as president, I will defend those principles.
(CHEERING)
HARRIS: All right, Green Bay.
So, Green Bay, we had 19 days until election day, 19 days. So, we are entering the homestretch and this is going to be a tight race until the very end.
Look, we are the underdog and that's why we are. And I'm campaigning to every single vote because I intend to be a president for all Americans, no matter their political party, where they live or where they get their news.
On that point, last night, you may have seen that I went on Fox News. Meanwhile, Donald Trump joined a Univision town hall yesterday, where a voter asked him about January 6. Okay. Now, we hear know January 6 was its a tragic day, a tragic day for our country it was a day of terrible violence with attacks on law enforcement 140 law enforcement officers were injured that day.
Law enforcement officers were killed that day and what did Donald Trump say last night about January 6. He called it, quote, a day of love. And we are all clear, the American people are exhausted with his gaslighting, exhausted, enough! Enough!
We are ready to turn the page. Turn the page.
CROWD: We're not going back! We're not going back! We're not going back!
HARRIS: We're not going back, and the reason, Wisconsin, is because we know this election is about two very different visions for our country.
One that is focused on the past, his, and ours, that is focused on the future.
