Return to Transcripts main page
Erin Burnett Outfront
Now: Drones Attacking Ukrainian Capital From All Directions; Special Counsel Drops Trump Cases, Not Based On "Merits Or Strength"; Trump's Secret Weapon. Aired 7-8p ET
Aired November 25, 2024 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[19:00:37]
ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST: OUTFRONT next:
The breaking news: a massive drone attack underway in Kyiv at this hour. This as NATO tonight warned to prepare for a, quote, war time scenario when Ukraine strikes again deep inside Russia. Is Putin about to retaliate in a much bigger and broader way tonight?
And above the law. Special counsel Jack Smith dropping his two major cases against Trump. Trump gets his get-out-of-jail-free card and sets his sights now on revenge.
Plus, he helped Trump win Pennsylvania and got the Amish to vote. But few people know who Scott Presler is, and he's fascinating. Why he's the secret weapon that many Republicans are choosing to keep at arms length.
Let's go OUTFRONT.
And good evening. I'm Erin Burnett.
OUTFRONT tonight, the breaking news under attack. Killer drones. As we speak, striking Ukraine's capital of Kyiv at this hour. The mayor of Kyiv says Iranian made drones used by Russia are swarming the city from all directions. And that situation right now is quickly escalating. A top NATO military official tonight warning companies across the U.S. and Europe that they need to prepare for a quote wartime scenario.
And "Reuters" tonight is reporting that the German government is now expanding a list of bunkers that can be used as emergency shelters. The German government, Germany, talking about emergency bomb shelters. They have plans, they say, to convert basements underground garages and subway stations into possible shelters. I remember days before the bombs and missiles started landing in Ukraine, walking around looking at places and thinking, this is stuff from World War Two. Is this really serious?
And then we all heard when those missiles started landing that night, and the world has changed. Now, you're hearing that from Germany tonight. Ukraine also upping the ante after nearly three years of fighting again striking deep inside Russia overnight. These images shared by the Russian and Ukrainian Telegram channels allegedly what you're seeing on your screen showing a strike near a Russian airfield.
Now, CNN has not been able to independently verify this video. This is all very new, as we are speaking Russia tonight, also on its side, taking precautions. Putin has been making it very clear what you're looking at here, that he's going to mass produce these nuclear resistant bomb shelters. And they've been putting these images out for everyone to see.
In fact, Moscow is now producing four times as many weapons as the European union. That's according to the German defense minister. It's not a Russian propaganda estimate. It's the German defense minister, four times more for Russia versus the E.U. in entirety.
And on Russia's state television tonight, they're bragging. Putin's allies are touting Russia's new hypersonic missiles actually showing simulations of the missiles hitting European capitals. Ukraine's former top general reportedly warning that World War Three has already begun.
Oren Lieberman begins our coverage tonight OUTFRONT live at the Pentagon and Oren, the U.S. watching what's happening on the ground at this very hour in Ukraine extremely closely these masses of drones that they say are descending from all directions upon Kyiv. What more can you tell us?
OREN LIEBERMANN, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Erin, the Pentagon tracks very closely what types of weapons, weapons Russia fires and the quantities of those, and those have been very great indeed. It's not just a drone attack on Kyiv and other places tonight. We saw very similar large scale drone attack last night with the devastating Iranian Shahed drones.
Ukraine said yesterday they intercepted 50 out of 73. That's an impressive number, but we have seen repeatedly how much damage devastation and frankly death, 23 drones, drones that get through Ukrainians -- Ukraine's defenses can cause.
Now, Russia has kept this barrage up, partially because it's gotten help from Iran and North Korea in supplying its own military, and that has allowed them, as they push on the ground, to also attack in the air.
Now, Ukraine certainly is not defenseless. And for the first time, John Kirby of the national security council acknowledged publicly that Ukraine has been able to use U.S. long range missiles ATACMS to attack deeper inside Russia. He also acknowledged these have been used in the Kursk region.
We saw the first of those attacks with eight missiles of these ATACMS variety, according to U.S. officials used to attack ammunition depots and storage facilities inside of Kursk. The video you showed a moment ago that may be another use of the ATACMS missiles. We don't know that for sure yet, but Ukraine clearly focusing on that. [19:05:01]
And because of the limited supply of these missiles, every use of them even in small quantities is absolutely worth noticing. It is this use of ATACMS missiles that Russia has used as an excuse to update its nuclear doctrine. Of course, the U.S. and the Pentagon are watching that closely, although they largely view that as more nuclear saber rattling. Still, it is a very dangerous moment, Erin. And that is what we and, of course, the Pentagon are tracking.
BURNETT: All right. Thank you very much, Oren, at the Pentagon.
And it comes as Russia is celebrating President-elect Trump's picks for his new administration. Fred Pleitgen with that part of the story OUTFRONT.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice- over): As Ukrainian forces grow ever more desperate, trying to hold off advancing Russian troops, the Kremlin is growing ever more hopeful the incoming Trump administration will try to end the war on terms favorable for Moscow.
The words peace or peace plan come from Trump supporters and those nominated for future positions in the upcoming administration, the Kremlin spokesman said today.
The Russians, irate after the Biden administration allowed Ukraine to use longer distance U.S. and UK supplied missiles to strike deeper inside Russia.
Russian President Vladimir Putin, in return, firing a new, powerful intermediate range ballistic missile into central Ukraine that's never been used in war.
President-elect Trump's pick for a national security advisor confirming ending the Ukraine war will be an urgent priority.
MIKE WALTZ, TRUMP'S PICK FOR U.S. NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISOR: President Trump has been very clear about the need to end this conflict, and so what we're -- need to be discussing is who's at that table?
PLEITGEN: And from Trump insiders and cabinet picks proposals seemingly in line with Moscow's demands. Elon Musk posting his ideas on his X account in early October 2022, calling for U.N. monitored referendums in areas of Ukraine occupied by Russia for Crimea to be recognized as Russian, and for Ukraine to remain neutral.
Ukraine's president, who has said he does believe the war will end faster under Trump, also said last week in a radio interview that Ukraine cannot be forced into talks. Musk, then trolling Zelenskyy once again.
Despite Elon Musk giving crucial battlefield support to Ukraine by providing Starlink satellite internet to its troops, Russians we spoke to in Moscow unequivocal they like him.
He's an extraordinary personality, this man says. And since he fulfilled himself and his business, society will work with him well.
I think Elon Musk is a good example of the future of our planet, she says. He's doing a lot to bring our planet forward, and it's a good development.
Others in Trump's orbit with clear pro-Kremlin views. Former Fox host Tucker Carlson traveled to Moscow in February, where he praised Russian supermarkets.
TUCKER CARLSON, HOST, TUCKER CARLSON NETWORK: It's pretty non- sanctioned to me.
PLEITGEN: Before sitting down with Vladimir Putin for an extended interview.
CARLSON: Tell us why you believe the United States might strike Russia out of the blue. How did you conclude that?
VLADIMIR PUTIN, RUSSIAN PRESIDENT (through translator): I didn't say that. Are we having a talk show or a serious conversation?
PLEITGEN: The Russian leader patiently saying he's willing to listen to the Trump administration's proposals.
What was said concerning the desire to restore relations with Russia, to help end the Ukrainian crisis, in my opinion, seems to me to be at least worthy of attention.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PLEITGEN: And tonight, Erin, more threats coming from the Russians. A senior Russian lawmaker coming out and saying that that big missile that the Russians launched at Ukraine shows what he calls the inevitability of retaliation should things escalate further here in this region, Russian deputy foreign minister also coming out and saying that Russia has security interests in this region, which it will ensure by all possible means -- Erin.
BURNETT: Fred, thank you very much. In Moscow tonight, in Moscow tonight.
Ian Bremmer is with me now, renowned global affairs analyst and founder of Eurasia Group and GZERO Media, of course, also your fantastic show on PBS.
So we go through, you hear what Oren's reporting. You've got these drones as we are speaking, descending in this mass attack on Kyiv in the context of Ukrainian missiles made by the U.S., striking deep inside Russia, Putin with his saber rattling, nuclear resistant bomb shelters, Germany, telling people where their bomb shelters are. If there's anything, that kind of harkens people, you know intellectually and emotionally back to World War II, it would be that. Germany warning Moscow is out producing all of the E.U. by 4 to 1 on weapons. It's a -- it's a -- it's a very frightening moment. And right now it appears that the ball is in Putin's court.
IAN BREMMER, PRESIDENT AND FOUNDER OF EURASIA GROUP & GZERO MEDIA: Let's remember the two things that matter that have changed in the past few months. Number one, the Russians were losing territory because of his. The Ukrainians, they're now gaining territory vis-a- vis the Ukrainians.
[19:10:02]
Number two, Biden president, Kamala Harris, close to a coin flip being able to win. Turns out Trump's about to be the president.
Everything we are seeing right now is performative from the Russians because they understand that they are not losing, they are gaining, and that means that they can show that Biden, who is the lamest of ducks on this specific policy, his policy is failing from the Russian perspective. That gives Trump much more reason to back away from it and to say, I'm the guy that's avoiding World War III, I'm the guy that's engaging with the Russians to bring peace and end to the war, as I promised.
Also allows the Russians to have a better shot at splitting the Europeans, as we are starting to see over the last week with comments publicly from a number of the European leaders.
BURNETT: Right. And, of course, a big victory for the pro-Russian --
BREMMER: Romania.
BURNETT: -- government in Romania.
BREMMER: In the first round.
BURNETT: Right on the border of Ukraine.
BREMMER: But will probably win in two weeks time in the second round. It was a big surprise, the Russians clearly providing support, at least from an algorithmic and ideological perspective, don't know about how free or fair those elections were.
But do know that this is another important E.U. state that assuming he wins, you're going to have a significant call to end this war to stop support from Ukraine from yet another European Union and NATO member.
BURNETT: So when you hear, you know, Fred Pleitgen talking to people on the streets of Moscow, they think highly of Elon Musk and Elon Musk, of course was crucial in providing support for Ukraine in this war when it came to Starlink. But obviously, and many crucial points has been very closely aligned with Putin and Russian talking points more on the war itself.
BREMMER: True.
BURNETT: So does Putin see an ally in Musk right now?
BREMMER: I think Putin sees someone he can do a deal with, with Trump, and that Elon is potentially useful because of what Elon has been publicly saying about Russia and Ukraine in the past weeks, certainly, how to end the war, undermining Zelenskyy publicly.
But look, this is very different from the last peace deal that Trump cut as president that was Afghanistan. That was the Taliban. That was the deal that he cut by himself, not with American allies, but the clean up on aisle three was done by the Biden administration.
BURNETT: That's right, right.
BREMMER: Right? This time around --
BURNETT: Terrible pullout in August, yeah.
BREMMER: -- anything that Trump does to cut a deal with the Russians, he's in charge of the cleanup. And I think that actually means that Trump is not going to give the entire store away to Putin, because he's going to have to live with those consequences for four years.
BURNETT: So while we were speaking, you have mass drone attack going down on Kyiv. Trump just came out on truth social, his website, and says that he is going to be putting tariffs on day one. So presumably via executive order if this is actually something he can do on day one of 25 percent on every single thing coming in from Canada and Mexico. And he also said he's going to put another additional 10 percent tariff on China, on top of what else is already there.
Twenty --now, I don't know what he's not saying here what this is, but 25 percent on every single thing coming in from Canada, and Mexico is a seismic shock.
BREMMER: Look, I remember you from CNBC and Bloomberg days. I'm not allowed -- I don't know if I'm allowed to say that on CNN, but you understand how the markets are likely to react to that if they were implemented, big if.
BURNETT: And he says on day one, I mean, it isn't like I hypothetically mean it.
BREMMER: I mean, he said 24 hours to end the war in Ukraine to he sometimes exaggerates a little sometimes I think that this is meant to be an opening position. The United States is in a much more powerful position vis-a-vis its allies around the world and vis-a-vis China.
China's economy right now is in the worst shape it's been since the '90s, maybe the '70s. I was just there a few weeks ago. They're deeply concerned about what an increase in tariffs from the United States would mean for their economy this time around.
You're going to see offers from these countries. Why wouldn't Trump in the weeks before he's president throw that out when they have an opportunity before he's president to say, no, no, no, please. Here's what well do for you. I think he's smoking him out a little bit early on. There's no reason
for him not to do it.
BURNETT: Well, certainly that's what the markets will hope, because a 25 percent tariff from Canada and Mexico of every single thing coming in, obviously would be calamitous. It would be calamitous.
All right. Thank you very much, Ian Bremmer.
BREMMER: Sure.
BURNETT: And next, Jack Smith throwing in the towel today announcing he will no longer be prosecuting Trump. The president elect, meantime, setting his sights on revenge. But was this exoneration? The answer is no.
Plus, the next act. Vice President Kamala Harris, now weighing her next move. So, will it be for president in 2028 or governor of California where Gavin Newsom currently sits?
And our Elle Reeve tracking down the man credited with helping deliver Pennsylvania for Trump? He is a fascinating character, so he's known for peddling conspiracy theories. What happens when she sits down with him and calls him out on them?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ELLE REEVE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Why could it have been stolen once, but not a second time?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:19:27]
BURNETT: Tonight, special counsel Jack Smith dismissing all charges against Donald Trump. The government's January 6th case and its classified documents case gone now.
Trump, of course, is celebrating posted immediately on social media. Quote: it was a political hijacking and a low point in the history of our country that such a thing could have happened and yet I persevered against all odds and won.
Jack Smith, though making it crystal clear that Trump was not cleared, writing that the decision, quote, is not based on the merits or strength of the case against the defendant. The government's position on the merits of the defendant's prosecution has not changed, but the circumstances have.
[19:20:01]
Of course, circumstances being Trump's going to be the president and dismiss the case.
Trump -- Smith does plan on filing a final report about his investigations. That, of course, will be crucial.
Evan Perez is OUTFRONT live in Washington, though.
Evan, what more are you learning from your sources tonight?
EVAN PEREZ, CNN SENIOR JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Erin, we know that this is a discussion that's been going on in Jack Smiths office since before the election.
And, of course the final blow to Jack Smith's cause here came with the verdict from the voters on November 5th, electing Donald Trump. And, of course, you know, the former president has enjoyed the help of the Supreme Court right, which took months to render a decision on immunity. And it eventually did give him broad immunity. You had Aileen Cannon, the judge in southern Florida who had this case, the classified documents case and eventually tossed it.
And so, what today we saw from Jack Smith was essentially a surrender to the inevitable, right? One of the things that you read in his filing, I'll read just a part of it. It says the department's position is that the constitution requires that this case be dismissed before the defendant is inaugurated. This outcome is not based on the merits or the strength of the case against the defendant.
And what they're referring to here, Erin, is the fact that the Justice Department has a long standing rule that a sitting president cannot be prosecuted and it turns out that also applied to a president-elect. Now, if you read the filing, you'll also see that they say that they're asking for the judge, for the judges. In these two cases to dismiss without prejudice.
Now, that raises the possibility that these cases could be revived when Trump is no longer president. Judge Tanya Chutkan ruled on at least that part of the case. I'll read you just a part of what she says, she says. Dismissal without prejudice is also consistent with the governments understanding that the immunity afforded to a sitting president is temporary, expiring when they leave office.
So, Erin, you can bet the question will arise, you know, when Donald Trump becomes president, does his Justice Department just simply go back to the courts and say this time we mean it with prejudice and that means these cases are done and dead forever.
BURNETT: All right. Evan Perez, thank you very much.
So let's go straight to Ty Cobb, former Trump White House lawyer.
So, Ty, you know, you hear Evan's reporting and Trump's response to the cases being dropped. He says he won. He puts the word "won" in all caps. He says the cases were empty and lawless. He -- his spokesperson calls it a major victory for the rule of law.
Does any of this true?
TY COBB, FORMER TRUMP WHITE HOUSE LAWYER: Well, I think it is true that he won, but what he won was not these cases. And he won the presidency. And it's that win that puts him in the position that Jack Smith had to acknowledge today.
You know, it's not that as Jack said in his filings, that, you know, the evidence has changed or that the strength of the cases has changed at all. And keep in mind that Trump's defense throughout this has never been factual. There's really no debate about the facts, and there's no debate that the facts constitute crimes.
What the debate has always been in Trump's mind is nah, nah, nah, you can't get me, and that that proved to be true, that they ran out of time and the American people bestowed upon him the presidency, which puts him in a constitutional position that he can no longer be pursued.
BURNETT: So you were looking through the charges, you know, that if Trump had been convicted of, say, one of the charges specifically in the January 6th case, that that would have resulted in 6 to 9 years in prison, right? So that's what an alternative world would have perhaps resulted in, right, 6 to 9 years in prison on one of them.
Now, Smith did leave open the door for future prosecution in these cases. But I mean, is that just sort of words? I mean is there any reality behind that rhetoric? Will Trump ever be held accountable?
COBB: So, you know, there are hypotheticals dancing on the, you know, tip of a pen kind of theories that, you know you could see that might play out for example, if there was some conspiracy to obstruct a witness testimony or continue obstruction, you know, with regard to the evidence in the case or with witnesses, you know, that's occurring today that could arguably extend the statute of limitations beyond his term. But, you know, the simple reality of this is -- no, I mean, this case is dead. This case is not going to be restarted or revived.
BURNETT: Right.
COBB: Both -- both cases and the most serious case of the law is the where the classified documents cases where the where the potential penalties were up to 20 years. And, you know, definitely he would have he would have gone to jail once that made it to a competent judge.
BURNETT: Right, and that, of course, you had Aileen Cannon as the judge on that which plagued it from the beginning. But also any legal expert that I've spoken to has said that was the -- that was the black and white case, that was the one obviously where the fact pattern was very clear, excruciatingly clear. But I'm curious from where Trump is now, though, Ty, and you both know him and see him back in the White House again. He has vowed retribution, right?
[19:25:01]
He's been very clear that he believes that that is necessary after what he says he was subjected to. So his attorney general now is most likely to be Pam Bondi, Kash Patel possibly at the DOJ also. So what does retribution look like do you think?
COBB: Well, you know, they have vowed certainly he has vowed and others, you know, involved in the transition team have vowed vengeance with regard to the prosecutors and the -- and the agents. Of course, they didn't do anything wrong, and there's really nothing to pursue them about. And, and frankly, you know, it's almost ironic because, you know, if they try to take vengeance, given his palpable conflict of interest, the president's palpable conflict of interest, you know, they're likely entitled to a special counsel, which, you know, he's had his lawyers argue and his pet judge approved the theory that that's unconstitutional.
I don't think there's a -- I don't think there's a legitimate way to pursue these people on the facts or the law or without an independent counsel.
BURNETT: All right. Ty Cobb, thank you very much. I appreciate it.
COBB: You bet.
BURNETT: Mondaire Jones, Scott Jennings with me now.
Former Congressman Jones, let me just start with you. How worried do you think, Jack Smith and others should be right now that Donald Trump could target them or for revenge? Now, Ty is laying out how difficult it may be in the specific cases of some of the prosecutors, like Jack Smith involved, but obviously, promises of retribution over legal cases against Trump goes much more broad than that.
MONDAIRE JONES (D), FORMER U.S. REPRESENTATIVE: Look, I think that Donald Trump has been very clear that he's got a list of enemies and that Jack Smith, Dr. Fauci and many others are on that list. And it remains to be seen how serious he is about going after them. I think someone like a Matt Gaetz would have really pursued that at the Department of Justice. Let's see what Pam Bondi does if and when she's confirmed to lead the department.
There are also obvious political ramifications for what happened today with these voluntary dismissals of these cases. First of all, it cements Merrick Garland's legacy as being the most ineffective attorney general of the United States in modern history because he waited so long to open these investigations such that we find ourselves at this point.
But also, Donald Trump unfortunately, is speaking to folks who are not hearing the truth about these investigations. And so, this is going to strengthen his argument unfortunately, in their minds that these cases were the result of politics rather than the merits.
And I do believe he would have been convicted in both of these matters the way he was convicted earlier this year in a separate matter. But this is -- this is a real problem, and it strengthens his hand when he says he wants to purge the Department of Justice of the deep state for example, which is something we know is a falsehood.
But to people seeing this voluntary dismissal many, many Americans are going to think, oh, so I guess there was no basis for these cases in the first place.
BURNETT: Well and I guess that could have argued for him, you know, waiting until Trump forced it out obviously, Smith did not feel that was the right thing to do.
Scott, can I ask you, though, there's also within Trump's inner circle, turmoil and chaos, who is it, Nikki Haley that said wherever he goes, chaos follows. Now I understand that was in the context of a political campaign, but nonetheless, we are reporting that attorneys for Trump have been looking at many instances of Boris Epshteyn, a top aide in that inner circle who has wielded a lot of power, reportedly requesting payment or consulting fees. basically, in exchange for appointments or access or things like that. In one case, they say he requested $100,000 a month.
SCOTT JENNINGS, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Hmm, good work if you can get it.
BURNETT: A hundred thousand dollars a month.
Okay. He denies this, but, this is the real question of whether what Trump's going to do when presented with this. This -- this is, look, well see more of this. But in this particular case, this has been burbling for a while.
JENNINGS: Yeah. Well, you said when presented with it, I'd be surprised if he doesn't already know about it, right? I mean, he's been involved, Epshteyn, I mean, has been involved in a couple of issues in the transition. One was the attempt to go around the background process for people who want security clearances. The second was the Matt Gaetz fiasco, which is probably the least successful --
BURNETT: Which apparently he, along with Trump and Matt Gaetz, hatched on the plane --
JENNINGS: Yeah, correct.
BURNETT: -- while Susie Wiles was doing business on the other side of the wall.
JENNINGS: Lasted eight days.
And now, the third thing is, is this issue, and so, you know, traditionally when you get out over your skis this much at this level of politics, you wind up ass over feet and into a tree somewhere. And that seems to be what's happening here.
And I think when you're in the middle of a transition, that's -- I actually don't agree with the characterization that it's been chaotic. I think they've run a very efficient good transition under the direction of the transition chairs, McMahon and Lutnick with Susie Wiles also in as the incoming chief of staff.
BURNETT: Yeah.
JENNINGS: This is not characteristic of the way the rest of it is being run, and it seems to go back to one person. I think it was right for the transition to look into what was happening there.
[19:30:02] I mean, certainly everybody who wants a job is trying to find a way in, but if you're already being paid by Trump to assist him on legal matters and other issues it doesn't seem right that you would also be trying to get paid on the other side of the algebra.
BURNETT: A hundred thousand dollars a month, according to this allegation which, of course, he -- he does deny.
Well, we'll see how it plays out.
Thank you very much, Scott, Mondaire. Appreciate both of you.
And next new reporting tonight about Kamala Harris, vice president telling allies she's staying in the fight and keeping her options open. So what is she doing next?
Plus, he helped deliver Pennsylvania for Trump. Yet why are some Republicans keeping Scott Presler at arms length. Our Elle Reeve tracked him down.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:35:08]
BURNETT: Tonight, Governor Kamala Harris?
The vice president is about to land in California after a post- election trip to Hawaii is reportedly considering a run to be California's next governor. And "Politico" is reporting that Harris is also telling her advisers and allies that she's not ruling out another White House bid in 2028.
Martin O'Malley is OUTFRONT. He is running to become the next chair of the DNC. He's also the former governor of Maryland and a 2016 presidential candidate.
So, Governor, I really appreciate your time.
MARTIN O'MALLEY (D), FORMER GOVERNOR OF MARYLAND: My pleasure.
BURNETT: I guess just a simple way of looking at this as -- as the vice president is -- is mulling her next steps and running for office. Is Kamala Harris, as you see it, the leader of the Democratic Party, right now?
O'MALLEY: Well, well, of course. I mean, she is and she also is smart to be very clear that she has options and she's considering those. And that's what everybody in the Democratic Party is doing now, especially in this race for DNC chair.
We know that we need to change in order to win and I would hope that you know, after as tough as a race that she fought, I would hope that that I think it's right that she would say and would conclude that she cannot leave this playing field. She has to keep doing everything she can to make a difference. BURNETT: So when you talk about change being needed to win for your party and this DNC race, right? You're running to be the next leader of the DNC.
O'MALLEY: I sure am.
BURNETT: So, so Bill Maher, you know, he had been very critical of many things in the on the Democratic side of things during this race. But he was, of course, a Harris supporter, and he's far from a fan of Donald Trump. He had something to say to your party. Let me play it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIO(
BILL MAHER, HOST OF "REAL TIME WITH BILL MAHER": We know they are stupid, just don't say it.
(APPLAUSE)
MAHER: Yeah, yeah. I got bad news for you. They don't have a monopoly on stupid. You wear queers for Palestine t-shirts and masks two years after the pandemic ended.
And you can't define woman. I mean, person who menstruates. You're the teachers union education party, and you've turned schools and colleges into a joke. You just lost a crazy contest to an actual crazy person.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: I don't know if that's how you'd say it, even in private, Governor, but do you agree with this premise?
O'MALLEY: Well, I agree with this -- I agree that we need to change in order to win elections, and we have to rebuild our party, and we have to reconnect to the most important place in America and that is the kitchen table of every American family.
You know, Erin, as I've been on the -- on the phone talking to a lot of DNC members, talking to a lot of governors and congressional leaders, one thing that seems pretty clear is that most of us know that we have to make some changes, fast changes operationally in order to reconnect with working people, and the hopes and dreams of families all across America.
You know, in the places where our candidates actually did it, we did much better than the national ticket. Hakeem Jeffries and his candidates, they flipped six red districts to blue. We won in Senate -- Senate seats in Michigan, Arizona and Nevada and Wisconsin.
But look, we need to ask ourselves how it is that in a time of economic recovery, we did not win and -- or in some cases even engage in the economic conversation that Americans wanted to hear from us. And that's the fundamental change we need to make.
The good news is it's really a return to our true selves because that is our bedrock as a party is fighting for working people. We need to get back to it. BURNETT: So, you know a new CBS poll came in. It was interesting
because buried in it was something that stood out to me and that was this 69 -- 60 percent, 59 of all voters approve of how President-elect Trump is handling his transition. I mean, that's pretty stunning, 59 percent.
Now, obviously, you're going to see that weighted much more so on the Republicans. But that is a -- in U.S. polling, a vast mandate, right. Never mind the election was about, you know, 50/50.
So do you see anything Trump is doing right, Governor?
O'MALLEY: I really cannot see anything that he's doing right. But I do think people are fatigued people are burned out and I think that's what those numbers are a reflection of. Because, Erin, if you look at this, you know, many of the people in this kind of clown car cabinet, these are people that are committed to breaking institutions that Americans thought were unbreakable and that were that -- that we have long taken for granted.
I mean, whether it's -- whether it's Medicare, whether it's Social Security, whether it's so many things we are way beyond the norms that we had grown up thinking were the parameters of what defined a republic.
[19:40:07]
Many of the things were about to see are going to be totally inconsistent with the republic these tariffs that are going to drive up the cost of everything for families all across America. And as we come through this time, people are going to see that the Democratic Party has their back. We're going to rebuild. We're going to reconnect, and we're going to win elections. But we have to change to win.
BURNETT: All right. Well, Governor O'Malley, I appreciate your time. Thank you very much.
O'MALLEY: Thank you.
BURNETT: As I said, Governor O'Malley is running for chair of the DNC.
And next, you may not know his name, but he played a major role when it comes to why Trump won. Why he is back in the White House, specifically by courting the Amish. So who is he? And why are Republicans now keeping their distance from him?
Plus, a court hearing today for the Menendez brothers, the first time in 28 years that we have heard from them in a courtroom. So what was said?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:45:19] BURNETT: Tonight, quote: The Amish delivered. Those are the words of a man few people know, but a man who was key to Donald Trump's win in Pennsylvania. The controversial conservative activist Scott Presler, who's involved in the group Gays for Trump, a vocal election denier, goes by the Twitter handle "The Persistence".
He helped deliver that all important must win state for Trump, in large part by focusing on, as he says the Amish frat guys and hunters, among other groups, and Presler as our Elle Reeve reports, is just getting started.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SCOTT PRESLER, FOUNDER, EARLY VOTE ACTION: Everybody just big smile and look cute. Okay?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yeah.
PRESLER: Cheese.
CROWD: Cheese.
ELLE REEVE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Scott Presler is the kind of political figure only possible in the Trump era, going from social media influencer to actual proximity to power.
(CROWD CHANTING "SCOTT")
REEVE: Presler is taking credit for turning Pennsylvania red. He created a PAC Early Vote Action to register voters and targeted the Amish frat guys, hunters and other groups. His PAC got a $1 million donation from Elon Musk.
INTERVIEWER: So walk us through how you do it.
PRESLER: When I tell the Amish that they can vote a private secret ballot that is mailed to their house and they don't have to have their buggies seen going to a polling location, they love the mail-in ballot.
HOST: But a lot of people sort of come up as social media influencers and then they fizzle out and you actually, you know, took the opportunity and started doing something quantifiable.
REEVE: He was at the Capitol on January 6th and at Trump's return to the scene of his near assassination in Butler.
PRESLER: President Trump took a bullet for us.
REEVE: Last week, Presler was in Bucks County, Pennsylvania, because of a controversy over what ballots would be counted in the Senate recount.
A frustrated county commissioner had said some misdated and unsigned ballots would be counted, despite the rules.
BUCKS COUNTY COMMISSIONER: If I violate this law its because I want a court to pay attention to it.
REEVE: This went very viral, in part because of Presler. She apologized at the next meeting.
BUCKS COUNTY COMMISSIONER: The passion in my heart got the best of me, and I apologize again for that. I made a mistake.
REEVE: But by then, the Pennsylvania Supreme Court had ruled those ballots wouldn't be counted.
Presler and his fans had won yet they turned out anyway, and the room had a kind of intense vibe.
Do you think that 2020 election was stolen?
EDWARD MACKHOUSE, TRUMP SUPPORTER: It definitely was stolen.
REEVE: Okay, so can you explain something to me? Why -- if they can steal an election, why would they steal it once but not this year?
MACKHOUSE: Because people were on to them, the divisions in the Democrats made it very hard for them to try and steal it again.
PRESLER: Thank you to every single patriot that showed up today. We did it!
I think what you heard today is the frustration of people that have been told they are election deniers, and here we have a sitting commissioner that's an election denier and we have a currently sitting senator, Bob Casey, that is also an election denier and its almost karmic. And yes, that's why in part, we were here to take a victory lap. We won and we did it fair and square.
REEVE: If we take that commissioner's words in the worst possible light, let's say she truly meant rules don't apply. And she could count ballots that should be counted. She still failed to steal the election, right? Like you guys still won Pennsylvania and Bucks County. So help me reconcile that with the -- with your past, with the Stop the Steal movement in 2020. Like, why could it have been stolen once but not a second time?
PRESLER: Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere. If we let them get away with doing this now, they'll do it in 2026. They'll do it in 2028. This was us peacefully putting our feet down and saying, no, enough is enough. And we're not going to allow you to do illegal and unlawful actions and we're going to hold you accountable.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Ready? One. Two. Three.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Cheese Trump.
REEVE: I noticed that when you urge people to action, you often include the word --
PRESLER: Peacefully.
REEVE: Is that to avoid another Jan 6 type incident?
PRESLER: With all due respect, it's to avoid people like you guys saying that I'm anything but. My motto is to just be super cute, have my data and facts, treat everyone with love and respect and as you can see, an army of people will follow.
REEVE: And it was a small army which included followers of a Korean church led by rapper King Bullet Head.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Play by play.
REEVE: So when you were up there speaking, it almost seemed like you were taking a bit of a victory lap for turning Pennsylvania in this county red?
PRESLER: Absolutely.
A lot of people questioned our voter registration. They said, Scott, you know, flipping Bucks County to a plurality of registered Republicans, that's not going to translate into results.
[19:50:06]
And yes, a little bit of the victory lap was here to say that for the first time since 1988, we flipped this county and it voted for President Trump. It's kind of, you know, saying to people, no, we're the real deal.
REEVE: Presler first got attention in 2017 when he worked for an anti-Muslim group and organized marches against Sharia despite there being no Sharia law in America.
He was also involved with Gays for Trump.
You described yourself as a data guy?
PRESLER: Yes.
REEVE: Yet early in your career, you were more of kind of like a social issues, culture war guy, like Gays for Trump or Act for America. Can you tell me about that shift in your career?
PRESLER: I have grown in how I approach politics. I see my work and my evolution in politics as I laid a foundation, and now I am meticulously building on that and esoteric understanding of how politics is going to win elections, focusing on demographic groups, get them registered, get them mobilized, get them out to vote.
REEVE: Twice, RNC officials have indicated they would hire him, but it hasn't worked out. Still, he's built a loyal fan base.
Have you spoken to President Trump since the election?
PRESLER: I've spoken to Lara Trump.
REEVE: What did she say? PRESLER: Our conversations, out of respect to her and the Trump
family are private. But she was congratulatory.
REEVE: And what about Elon Musk?
PRESLER: I think he's a wonderful human being.
REEVE: Have you talked to him since the election?
PRESLER: We've messaged. Nothing consequential.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: God saved America. Hallelujah! God is good.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BURNETT: It's just so fascinating and watching him over these past months, when I first saw him was really on Twitter, right? It was that social media presence, right there in that conversation with you, he admitted he hasn't spoken to Trump since he won. And obviously what he did for Trump was hugely significant.
Why are Republicans keeping him at some sort of arms length, it seems.
REEVE: Presler does have his conservative critics. Last year, during the race for the RNC chair, he posted the email addresses of committee members urging him them to vote for his candidate.
In that controversy, "Politico" reported that years earlier, in 2016, he'd had a sexual encounter in a Republican office in Virginia and posted photos of it on Craigslist.
And then, of course he is an election denier. But the era of those folks being pushed to the fringe of the party seems to have passed.
BURNETT: Yeah, that certainly would not that would not cause the arms length. But it is, you know, just to watching the whole thing really fascinating.
All right. Thank you so much, Elle. Having that conversation with Scott Presler.
And next, a court hearing today for the Menendez brothers, their first in nearly 30 years. So are they any closer to getting out of prison for killing their parents?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:57:00]
BURNETT: Tonight, the voice of a Menendez brother, heard in court for the first time in 28 years.
Erik and Lyle Menendez killed their parents at their family home in Beverly Hills in 1989. The brothers say that they were being sexually abused and acting in self-defense. Prosecutors have said the motive was money. Nick Watt is OUTFRONT.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JOAN VANDERMOLEN, MENENDEZ BROTHERS' AUNT: They should never have been in such situations as presented themselves. What can a kid do when his fathers like -- I can't stand it.
NICK WATT, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): That is Kitty Menendez's sister.
And this is Jose Menendez's sister.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thirty-five years is a long time.
WATT: They want their nephews home.
MARK GERAGOS, ATTORNEY REPRESENTING THE MENENDEZ BROTHERS: The judge has now set January 30th and 31st as the days for a plenary or fulsome hearing on the resentencing were hoping that by the end of that, or sometime sooner, that we will in fact, get the brothers released.
WATT: Today, Erik and Lyle Menendez were supposed to make their first public appearance in nearly 30 years, but apparent technical difficulties meant they did not appear in this L.A. court via video link. All we heard was one brother, say Riley we've had video access the entire time.
Back in the mid-1990s, this was a sensational televised trial after a sensational crime. Prosecutors said the boys wanted their parents money. The brothers, who were 18 and 21 at the time, claimed they feared for their lives after enduring years of emotional physical and sexual abuse by their father. And that's why they killed their parents.
LYLE MENENDEZ, CONVICTED OF KILLING HIS PARENTS IN 1909: He would put me on my knees and he would guide me, all my movements and I would, have oral sex with him.
WATT: Lyle and Erik were sentenced to life without the possibility of parole.
REPORTER: Jose Menendez and his wife, Kitty.
WATT: Then at 2023, docu-series alleged Jose Menendez, a powerful record exec, had also molested a member of a boy band, menudo.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I know what he did to me in his house.
WATT: The brothers' lawyers pushed for their case to be reopened. Then, a Netflix drama and documentary reignited public interest. L.A.'s D.A. asked a judge to reconsider sentencing which might see the brothers released immediately, saying that a jury might react very differently now than they did back in the 1990s.
GEORGE GASCON, LOS ANGELES COUNTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY: I believe that they have paid their debt to society.
WATT: But D.A. George Gascon, a progressive, was just ousted in November's election. The tougher on crime Nathan Hochman will take office December 2nd.
NATHAN HOCHMAN, LOS ANGELES COUNTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY-ELECT: I won't rely on just a Netflix documentary or a Netflix docu-series as the source of my information to make this a very, very important decision.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
WATT: Now, the dramas, the documentaries, social media have all reignited interest in this case to such a degree that there had to be a lottery today for seats in the public gallery. Many of the people in that line weren't even born when this crime took place, or the trial took place. Inside, Kitty Menendez's 93 year old sister, Joan, said that she is distraught that her sister knew and did nothing, and that no children should live in fear of being raped by their father -- Erin.
BURNETT: Nick, thank you very much.
And thanks so much to all of you for joining us.
"AC360" starts now.
