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Erin Burnett Outfront

Sources: Trump Officials Likely To Push For Ukraine-Russia Ceasefire; Russia's Warning To West; Terrified Of Musk; Paging Dr. A.I. Aired 7-8p ET

Aired November 27, 2024 - 19:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[19:00:33]

ERICA HILL, CNN HOST: OUTFRONT next:

On the brink. Moscow warning the West they are ready to retaliate as Ukraine launches more attacks inside Russia. And tonight, new details about Trump's plan to stop Putin's deadly invasion.

Plus, Elon Musk putting government employees on notice, posting their names online, information about their jobs as concerns mount about their safety.

And paging Dr. A.I. A new study finding artificial intelligence did a better job diagnosing medical conditions than doctors. Could A.I. upend the medical world? The doctor who led the study is my guest.

Let's go OUTFRONT.

Good evening. I'm Erica Hill, in for Erin Burnett.

OUTFRONT tonight: Putin's patience is running thin. The Russian president's foreign minister, Sergey Lavrov, making it clear Russia will not put up with the damaging long range missile attacks from Ukraine for much longer.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SERGEY LAVROV, RUSSIAN MINISTER OF FOREIGN AFFAIRS: We have many proverbs that reflect the character of our people. Measured twice, cut once.

I remembered one more proverb which Western officials should bear in mind in this situation. A Russian man takes a long time to get going. I'm sure the viewer knows what happens next.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HILL: What is next? Putin has, of course, put the U.S. on a nuclear notice, and Moscow is wasting no time mass producing nuclear shelters. Just take a listen to what they're saying now on state TV.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RUSSIAN STATE TV: I would like to remind the Germans where this is going. It will end with destroyed houses because the Russians never surrender and no one has ever defeated the Russians.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HILL: So if Germany were to be attacked, it would lead to another world war. And according to the retired general that Donald Trump just tapped to be Americas envoy to Ukraine, the U.S. and its allies are on the cusp of a global assault.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEN. KEITH KELLOGG, TRUMP'S UKRAINE SPECIAL ENVOY PICK: No, I don't think World War III has begun, but were right on the precipice. A simple spark can spin things right out of control.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HILL: Now, General Keith Kellogg has been tasked with leading negotiations to end the nearly three year war.

Sources telling CNN it's still too early to say just what team Trump's strategy is there, though Kellogg has argued Washington should only arm Ukraine on the condition that Kyiv enter peace talks with Russia.

Meantime, Trump's pick for national security advisor, Mike Waltz, has been considering several proposals to end the war.

Oren Liebermann is OUTFRONT live at the Pentagon.

Oren, what more do we know about these proposals that the Trump administration is reviewing right now?

OREN LIEBERMANN, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, President-elect Donald Trump is likely to have some sort of ending to the Russia- Ukraine War, or at least negotiations fairly high on his priority list when he comes in on January 20th. He has claimed the war would never have started if he was president, and said at least once on the campaign trail that he could end the war in a day.

The question is how? And that's where the specifics, the details have been very short. Retired General Keith Kellogg, who served in the first Trump administration, is one of those speaking with Mike Waltz, the incoming national security advisor, to lay out at least a potential plan or an idea for how to proceed here and his idea, according to two sources familiar with the matter is to essentially hold off on arming Ukraine, unless they're willing to partake in peace negotiations with Russia.

But that's only one of the options being considered here. Ric Grenell, who was Trump's former ambassador to Germany, has a different idea. And that's the creation of autonomous zones along the front line and in the areas where we have seen fighting, where Russian forces have taken territory in Ukraine.

And there have been even some other ideas. Sebastian Gorka who will be a deputy in the National Security Council, suggested arming Ukraine even more and said that's what the Trump administration might do. So there's quite a spectrum of options that have been put forward. One

of the sources with whom CNN spoke said it's really up to Trump in the end, and he could change his mind at the very last second. But at least we see some ideas from those who could play a crucial role in shaping this in the incoming administration. And it's certainly worth noting that General Keith Kellogg, who is one of those who put forward an idea, was picked by Trump to be the special envoy to Russia and Ukraine.

HILL: Yeah, it's a good point. Oren Liebermann, appreciate the reporting tonight. Thank you.

Well, this comes as tonight. Russia is seeing some momentum on the battlefield against Ukraine.

Fred Pleitgen is OUTFRONT.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice- over): Vladimir Putin's army advancing on nearly all front lines inside Ukraine, but also as they try to expel Kyiv's troops from the Kursk region in Russia.

[19:05:03]

We fought for this area for almost three months, this Russian marine says, thanks to the assault groups of the 810th Brigade, we knocked out these Ukrainian servicemen.

Moscow emboldened, now flat-out telling the Biden administration: face it, you lost.

The West should hear all this, rethink it, come to their senses and admit they lost. They failed to achieve the goals of containing Russia's development. They were unable to defeat Russia geopolitically, the speaker of Russia's Senate says.

Moscow is still fuming after the White House gave Kyiv the go ahead to use U.S. supplied longer distance weapons to strike targets deep inside Russia.

We understand the reaction of the embittered frustrated Washington regime under the leadership of Biden, which lost the election, which did not receive support for its domestic and foreign policies from its own citizens, she says. We must understand that in agony, they are capable of continuing to take the most reckless steps.

The Russians claim they are not the ones escalating even after striking Ukraine with a new hypersonic multiple warhead ballistic missile and now publishing these graphics saying that missile could also carry a 900 kiloton nuclear warhead and reach NATO bases in Europe in a few minutes.

On Red Square, people telling us they want de-escalation but support their leadership. UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We need to defend ourselves because if America

and Europe and other countries will give Ukraine all the weapons and all the resources they have, how can we live there?

PLEITGEN: Of course, it's a dangerous time, this man says. You know, I won't display a second cheek if I was already slapped on the other. You have to fight for your righteousness and kindness.

Tonight, Putin arriving in Kazakhstan for a two day visit, also including a major security conference greeted with full military honors as countries in the region increasingly see Russia growing more influential on the road to a possible victory in Ukraine.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PLEITGEN (on camera): And, Erica, tonight, more tough talk coming from the Russians. This time from the spokeswoman for Russia's foreign ministry, and she says that if there is an increased missile threat for the Russian federation, that there will be what she calls a decisive response and that that could include both for tat and asymmetric measures -- Erica.

HILL: Fred Pleitgen for us in Moscow tonight -- Fred, thank you.

OUTFRONT now, retired Army Major General James "Spider" Marks and Jill Dougherty, CNN contributor and former Moscow bureau chief for CNN.

It's good to see you both tonight.

Spider, we just heard in Fred's report there, Russia advancing on nearly all front lines. The Biden administration now calling on Ukraine to dramatically lower the recruitment age for Ukrainian soldiers from 25 to 18.

General, is that enough to turn this around?

MAJ. GEN. JAMES "SPIDER" MARKS (RET.), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: No, it's not enough. I think from the outset. Um this administration really didn't have a clear strategy in terms of what they wanted to try to achieve as a desired end state, even if that was an interim step toward a larger strategic objective.

And so what you see, right now is an administration that's on its way out. Ukraine, which has done incredibly well in this fight against the Russians, and clearly the West has not lost, Ukraine has not lost. This is a narrative that were going to see more of coming out of Moscow.

But what we see now is, I hate to use the term stalemate, but what we see is a very well defined tactical battle between two combatants and clearly Russia has the law of large numbers. They've got the manpower. They've got the capability to keep piling on.

And -- but yet bear in mind, Moscow has lost close to 600,000 young men in this fight so this has been an incredibly costly victory for them. Maybe the definition of a pyrrhic victory, if they want to use the word victory, but it's not over. The challenge is Russia doesn't have the capacity to further advance into Ukraine and threaten Kyiv and threaten well beyond where they are right now. Again, this is a very tactical fight going on.

On the other hand, Ukraine is doing a wonderful job resisting that but they also don't have the capacity to dislocate the Russian forces. So were going to see this volume of this intensity of fighting through the change of administration, where a negotiated settlement clearly will be on the table.

HILL: And we're also hearing more and more, right, and hearing directly from Russia. Russian state TV today saying the U.S. is directly responsible for Ukraine's attacks inside Russia. Also this, mocking the U.S. Take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): Biden pardoned two turkeys. It's so touching, right? Now, count how many people you've killed in two years, with your help, with your participation and provocation, you're killing millions of people and pardoned two turkeys.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HILL: Jill, there is an escalation in the rhetoric and what we're hearing from Russians saying the U.S. is now directly involved in the conflict. How is that changing things?

JILL DOUGHERTY, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Well, I think this is a big deal, what Russia essentially is doing is that Putin, in fact, himself is saying that this is now not just a regional conflict, but this has now becoming a worldwide conflict, and that Russia is actually at war with NATO and the United States.

And so, if you, you know, play that out, what they're saying is for a second, set aside Ukraine but just look at what Putin is trying to say. We can go after the United States. We can go after NATO. And this is where you get that asymmetric war rhetoric that we just heard a couple of minutes ago.

They can strike by carrying out sabotage in Europe. They could do something in Asia, they could do there are a lot of things that they can do. They recently may have taken some steps in the Baltic Sea.

So this is where it gets dangerous. But again, part of this is that the United States we could argue that Biden held himself back because of his fear that it would go too far, and that temporizing ultimately was a bad policy. So this you know, I think the West has to be realistic, as Spider was saying, you know, how dangerous this is.

But on the other hand, it can't necessarily have Putin dictate and you know, make the west so afraid that its incapable of taking any action.

HILL: And to that point as we look at what may be to come, some of the reporting, which I hope you just -- you both heard from Oren Liebermann about some of what is being looked at, Donald Trump announcing that General Keith Kellogg set to serve as his special envoy for Ukraine and Russia.

Before we talk too much about what we've heard in terms of his proposals, Spider, you know him well. You served with him several times. Do you think he is someone who could be able to bring this war to an end?

MARKS: Well, the thing about Keith Kellogg is he was an incredibly competent, very energetic, smart soldier. I don't know Keith as a politician, but I do know that he's been on the Trump team before, right? He was Vice President Pence's national security advisor. So he's intimate in terms of how our president thinks and what he's trying to achieve.

So if you're looking for an envoy to go forward who has the complete credibility and can speak for the commander in chief, Keith is the guy to do it, that the challenge is, can you get the this is an issue for the Ukrainians and the Russians. Can we convince the Ukrainians that a cease fire of some sort is in their best interest, if, in fact, that's the message -- I can't speak for the administration but if it's -- if that's the message, that has to be crystal clear, that has to come straight from that envoy, Keith, from the president indicating that this is the way forward.

And I don't know that it's conditional. You know, Ukraine's desire to have a ceasefire, if that's conditional for the United States to then to walk further down the path in terms of additional support, that remains to be seen.

HILL: It does remain to be seen, although we did see, you know, General Kellogg, writing in a report earlier this year laying out as a path which he sees to ending the war would be that the U.S. would continue to arm Ukraine. But in his words future American military aid would require Ukraine to participate in peace talks with Russia. Also to convince Putin to join the peace talks suggesting that NATO leaders should offer to put off NATO membership for Ukraine for an extended period.

Jill, when you look at that, too, there is the conditioning of aid, but also what feels like in many ways a major concession to Vladimir Putin. How realistic do you think that plan would be, though?

DOUGHERTY: You know, there are a lot of moving parts to this, but I think that if you look at it, kind of big picture essentially what they're saying is freeze everything in place and then force both sides to come to the table.

And I think politically it would be extremely difficult at this point for Zelenskyy. The president of Ukraine, to do that, to just freeze and essentially give those areas the Donbas in the East and Crimea in the south to Russia but it wouldn't be hard for Vladimir Putin to say yes, I want to negotiate and we will. Well freeze everything but then continue I actually believe continue to fight, continue to push, all the while saying he wants a peace agreement.

[19:15:02] And I think, you know, again, Spider is right, that we need to get real details how this would work. And not only immediately with this, with this war but how will the security of Ukraine and with it, the security of Europe be guaranteed? And that's a very big question. And it requires a lot of serious thinking and coordination with Europe.

HILL: Jill Dougherty, General Spider Marks, appreciate it as always. Thank you both.

MARKS: Thank you.

HILL: OUTFRONT next, Elon Musk heads to Washington. Sources tell CNN his upcoming visit is all about cutting government and cutting waste, as we know it turns out he's already naming some names, sparking some serious security concerns.

Plus, a growing number of Trump's cabinet picks facing bomb threats. The FBI is now on the case. Trump and the White House weighing in.

Plus, a TikTok star who's become Putin's protege stuns the world, pulling off a surprising victory after posting viral videos that look a lot like Putin's propaganda.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:20:25]

HILL: New tonight, House Speaker Mike Johnson announcing Elon Musk and Vivek Ramaswamy will head to Capitol Hill next week, where they'll meet with Republican lawmakers to discuss possible cuts and their view on more limited government.

This as some federal employees tell CNN they're now terrified after Musk shared posts on x that included the names of government employees he might cut.

Van Jones, we've got the whole panel here. Now, I'm going to start with you, though. It's not -- listen, the tactic itself isn't new for Elon Musk but these are legitimate concerns about putting people at serious personal risk. When you see this unfolding, how concerned are you?

VAN JONES, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I'm very concerned. I would direct Elon Musk to marvel cinematic universe. With great power comes great responsibility.

Elon Musk is behaving incredibly irresponsibly. It's one thing when you're, you know, just a tech bro and you're playing around on Twitter, its something else. When you're the richest man in the world, frankly, a massive beneficiary of federal contracts and first buddy to the president of United States, you have to be careful.

And by the way, every single person he's naming, if they wind up losing their jobs, will have a lawsuit because there's been no due process. This is a reckless disregard for those people and their lives and their livelihood. But Elon Musk needs to recognize buddy, you have way too much power to be acting like the high school cafeteria jerk. You need to calm down and treat people with respect. This is going to get very, very bad for a lot of people.

HILL: Shermichael, you've noted that this information is publicly available, which is true. There is a difference, though, in knowing that you can go find the information and look for it, as opposed to posting it in a space where you know it will go viral. And this is something Elon Musk himself was not happy with, when publicly available information about his plane for example, was posted.

Do you see this continuing, especially with the added power now that Elon Musk or the added access to power that he has?

SHERMICHAEL SINGLETON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I think it's unnecessary, unless someone is breaking the law or committing fraud. I think it's so perfectly okay to pinpoint certain departments and maybe even titles within those departments or positions within -- within those departments that may be making too much money or shouldn't really exist because they aren't showcasing measurable outcomes of success.

I'm okay with that. I don't think it's really necessary, though, to put people's names out there. I would imagine many of these people may ultimately lose their jobs anyway if the president elect, with the power of Congress, decides to minimize or merge some of these departments with other departments to cut costs.

I think, however, the overall aims, I would argue, are pretty noteworthy. Government inefficiency is indeed a problem. It doesn't make sense that the Pentagon has yet to be able to pass a budget, for example. I do think we could utilize technology to streamline certain services for the American people. And also reduce inefficiencies and ultimately reduce cost and spending, which, again, is a benefit to the overall taxpayer.

So my advice would be to the richest man in the world, focus on the mission, don't necessarily get sidetracked because we end up talking about it like we are tonight.

HILL: We'll see if he hears you, Shermichael.

Lulu, Steve Bannon, who previously called Musk a traitor, now heaping a whole lot of praise on Elon Musk, saying he deserves a seat at the table because he did play a major role in Trump's victory. How far do you think Trump will get Musk to go with his plans?

LULU GARCIA-NAVARRO, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: First of all, I want to laud Shermichael for that pivot at the end where he talked about the, you know, the positive aspects of what Elon Musk is doing the fact is that when Elon Musk took over Twitter and made it into X, everyone was like, what is he up to? What is this man up to? He's tanking the stock. He's absolutely killing the company.

And now we know that it's his personal bully pulpit. What he did would not be allowed on any other social media platform, but because he owns it, he's now able to do what he did, name people, put them at -- put their livelihood and their lives in jeopardy.

And again, you have to ask, why is he doing this? Well, we know why. Because if they want to get rid of people in government, it's very hard to do. And so, if you terrorize them, then what actually happens is they decide to leave of their own volition.

And that is a playbook that we know from Project 2025 and others. That is a playbook that they have been wanting to do. They want to actually have people be afraid to be demoralized and then to leave of their own free will so that they don't get into all this other trouble.

[19:25:05]

And so, there is a tact -- there is something tactical behind this.

HILL: When we look at how all of this is playing out in terms of Steve Bannon also speaking out about the future of the Democratic Party, telling "Puck's" Peter Hamby in part, quote, if you look at the Democratic Party, Ro Khanna, Sherrod Brown, John Fetterman, you have some tremendous voices that are very powerful on economic nationalism and populism. Khanna and Fetterman are the future of the Democratic Party. Those guys get it.

If the Ro khannas and the Fettermans and the Sherrod Browns get traction and organized, you will see a rise of a populist center left they'll be able to compete with us.

Van, do you agree?

JONES: Well, I don't like taking a lot of advice from my party, from someone like Steve Bannon, who is not just an economic nationalist, but rubs up against white nationalism. And so, he's -- I think he's not a good force for our party. But even a stop clock is right twice a day. And there is going to be a rise of voices like John Fetterman in particular who represent more of a working class populist message, not as polished a little bit more authentic.

And I think that will be a part of the reset of the Democratic Party. But I think we're going to be able to compete with the Republicans because most of the stuff that Donald Trump is promising to do is going to be highly inflationary. Tariffs are going to make prices go up, deporting all the low wage workers is going to make prices go up.

So I think were going to be able to compete with them whether or not we have new spokespersons because their agenda as implemented is going to hurt so many people.

There is a limited runway here as we know, right, so as the reporting has been, Donald Trump wants to get as much done as he can when he first gets into office, Shermichael, because, of course, you have midterms looming. We don't see how things are going to play out with perhaps a Ro Khanna emerging as one of the main voices of the Democratic Party.

You're a big fan of his. How much of a concern would that be to you as a Republican? SINGLETON: I mean, look, I think the congressman is a brilliant guy. I've been following Fetterman. I think they're the type of Democrats that I, as a conservative, would absolutely work with. I mean, we're not going to see eye to eye on a whole host of things, but I do think they sort of represent a Democratic Party of the era of Bill Clinton, Democrats that my grandparents remember, so the halcyon days of the of the DNC, if you will.

And I think that serves the public good ultimately, right. The objective of government is to serve the welfare of the American people. And in order to do that effectively, you need both Democrats and Republicans to work together in a collaborative effort to move the needle forward to maximize opportunity of success for the greater number of people.

And so, if you have Democrats on the left who are sort of in the middle, maybe they teeter to some of the leftward politics, but can still work with Republicans and conservatives on issues that impact working class people, whether were trying to figure out new trade agreements. NAFTA was a disaster as Senator Fetterman has articulated in the past.

If we can do that type of collaborative work, I absolutely think that they would be great partners for many Republicans. And I think there are many Republicans who would welcome working with those types of Democrats.

HILL: So that's the working with them. The messaging, right, is a big part of this and a big part of what is happening in the aftermath of the election for Democrats.

Lulu, a few weeks ago, Fetterman actually was on Joe Rogan's podcast, and they talked a little bit -- Joe Rogan praising him for not being too polished, essentially, being a little bit more relatable being more relatable to the working class. How important is that moving forward? Is polished essentially a dirty word, Lulu, at this point in politics?

GARCIA-NAVARRO: I think the word that everyone is searching for is authenticity. I interviewed Senator Fetterman as well. I've spoken to Ro Khanna. You know, Sherrod Brown is also someone who, even though he didn't win, his Senate race, is someone who is incredibly relatable.

And I think what people want to see in their political leaders is that they stand for something, and that they're able to articulate what that is and that they're able to buck conventional wisdom when they need to. Because what ends up happening is that then people internalize that and think, oh, that person will then stand up for me. If they're standing on their principles, they're going to stand up for me too and that is something that I think Donald Trump has very successfully managed, even though he changes his positions often, he does -- people do feel that he is authentic and that he speaks for them.

HILL: Lulu, Shermichael, Van, great to see all of you. Thank you.

SINGLETON: Thanks. Happy Thanksgiving.

HILL: Happy thanksgiving.

OUTFRONT next, more bomb threats now targeting a number of Trump's picks for his new administration.

Plus, the U.S. facing a nuclear problem but it's probably not the one you might think. This is about nuclear waste. And the U.S. has a whole lot of it. The issue though, nowhere to put it, because perhaps not surprisingly, no one wants it. So, just how dangerous is it?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HILL: New tonight, bomb threats and swatting attacks targeting several officials picked for top roles in the new Trump administration. Elise Stefanik, Lee Zeldin, John Ratcliffe Brooke Rollins, among others, the Trump transition team calling the threats un-American. The White House says President Biden unequivocally condemns threats of political violence.

OUTFRONT now, someone who once worked with another top pick for the new Trump administration, Dave Aronberg. He, of course, is the Democratic state attorney in Palm Beach, Florida, who has also worked closely with Pam Bondi, Trump's pick for attorney general when she was Florida's AG. She crossed party lines to pick Dave Aronberg as her drug czar.

You've had a lot of complimentary things to say about her and especially as this pick. I was actually struck by the -- some of those comments being picked up by the Trump transition team. In fact, they said in part in an email, using your comments, quote, she would support legislation regardless of whether it was supported by Democrats or Republicans, Aronberg said, and in return, she was well- liked across the aisle.

[19:35:10]

I know you're not afraid to criticize the president-elect. What do you think, though, of seeing your comments highlighted there in a in an email from the transition team?

DAVE ARONBERG (D), STATE ATTORNEY, PALM BEACH COUNTY, FLORIDA: I was surprised, Erica. I mean, the Thanksgiving surprise but I really shouldn't have been because this nomination that's still in the balance and they're showing that she has some bipartisan support.

I worked for her as her drug czar after she and I ran in the same race to be attorney general. So even though I endorsed the Democrat who beat me in the primary, she then still hired me to run the anti-pill mill initiative that clamped down on these drug dispensers, the opioid epidemic in Florida and saved lives.

HILL: So all that said, we know Donald Trump is out for revenge for retribution. We know loyalty is very important to him. I want to play some of what she's had to say in the past.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT-ELECT OF THE UNITED STATES: The unselect committee are pushing a fake and fabricated narrative.

PAM BONDI (R), FORMER FLORIDA ATTORNEY GENERAL: The select unselect committee, they didn't want to hear these witnesses because they don't want the truth.

TRUMP: Oh, those prosecutors, some are racists, some hate our country. They all hate me.

BONDI: All of these prosecutors hate Donald Trump.

TRUMP: I will direct a completely overhauled DOJ to investigate every radical out of control prosecutor in America.

BONDI: The Department of Justice, the prosecutors will be prosecuted. The bad ones, the investigators will be investigated.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HILL: She seems to be in lockstep there. We know she is a Trump loyalist. You say she's also loyal to the rule of law.

Can those two things coexist?

ARONBERG: Yes. She is a Trump loyalist. But you saw who she is when, even though she's giving the political rhetoric there on Fox News, that's different than when she steps into the role as attorney general but she's giving the political rhetoric, and she still stepped back some of the rhetoric midway through, she actually corrected herself and said the bad ones, right? We're going to prosecute the prosecutors, the bad ones.

Yeah, I agree that any bad prosecutor, anyone who breaks the law, should be prosecuted. But if they decide to go after Jack Smith because he prosecuted Donald Trump, that is going to be a fools errand. I personally think that Jack Smith is the epitome of what a prosecutor should be.

And if Donald Trump wants to create a super martyr out of Jack Smith or Liz Cheney or Adam Kinzinger they will regret doing so. Trump knows himself what that looks like because he believes that when he was on trial in New York, in Manhattan, that it helped his electoral chances. So perhaps he knows it's in his best interest just to let Pam Bondi follow the rule of law.

HILL: In terms of letting Pam Bondi follow the rule of law, do her thing in his first term, right, Donald Trump had two different attorneys general, Jeff Sessions. Of course, he fired Bill Barr, who resigned. There were also two acting A.G.s. Nobody made it to the two- year mark.

Do you see Pam Bondi making it a full four years?

ARONBERG: She could. It depends on what Trump asks her to do. I do not believe she would ever intentionally try to break the law even to please Donald Trump, and I think she will have the credibility with Trump to say no to him, because he knows she is loyal to him.

Jeff Sessions wasn't a true Trump guy. Bill Barr wasn't part of the Trump inner circle before he was hired. Pam Bondi has been. And so I do think she has the moral authority within the MAGA universe to tell him, hey, I know what you want, but the law doesn't let you do it.

HILL: Real quickly, before I let you go, what do you envision happening in these first few days? Right. If she becomes A.G., where do you see the DOJ going in terms of investigations?

ARONBERG: She's going to implement Trump's anti-immigration policies to get tough at the border and to clamp down on fentanyl, which is good. That's something she and I have a background in fighting. I also think she will go after the universities who refuse to do something about antisemitism on their campuses, and I will applaud her for that.

Where it will get controversial is when Trump expects her to investigate the investigators, and I think she will, a la John Durham and Bill Barr. We've seen that before. That's nothing new. The question is where does that lead?

I think you got to be careful, though, because if you decide to manufacture charges, which I don't think she will do, but if you decide to go down that road, you're going to create martyrs out of Trump's biggest enemies, and it could destroy his presidency.

HILL: Dave Aronberg, nice to see you in person instead of just in a little TV box. Thank you.

ARONBERG: Happy Thanksgiving, Erica.

HILL: You, too.

OUTFRONT next, nuclear energy making a comeback, but there's one hang up. That's the waste. No one wants it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BILL WEIR, CNN CHIEF CLIMATE CORRESPONDENT: What do you think are the biggest misconceptions about nuclear energy?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, that it can blow up.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HILL: Plus, these artificial intelligence smarter than your doctor. A surprising new study finds. Ai is actually better at diagnosing medical conditions. Could that new technology, though, backfire?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:44:10]

HILL: Tonight, fueling the A.I. boom. Amazon, Google and Microsoft all turning to nuclear power to fuel A.I.'s insatiable need for power but with all that power comes a whole lot of nuclear waste. So then what do you do with it?

Bill Weir is OUTFRONT with humanity.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

WEIR (voice-over): With humanity thirsty for clean energy. Nuclear is having a green renaissance.

JENNIFER GRANHOLM, ENERGY SECRETARY: Get the Palisades nuclear plant back up and running.

WEIR: Even among Democrats in Michigan Governor Gretchen Whitmer is using a billion and a half in IRA funds to reopen the Palisades nuclear plant, saying its the only way to meet state climate goals.

REPORTER: Chaos and confusion reigned as monitors tried to determine exactly how much radiation was released.

WEIR: And 50 years after America's most notorious nuclear accident, Microsoft is planning to reopen Three Mile Island, to power the demand for A.I. computing.

[19:45:08]

There is no conclusive proof that accident made anyone sick or have a serious condition but films like "The China Syndrome" and "Silkwood" helped make a Cold War culture even more wary of meltdowns that never came. But spent nuclear fuel has been piling up at dozens of sites around the country radioactive waste with no clear destination.

What do you think are the biggest misconceptions about nuclear energy in the general public? In the United States, especially?

BRIAN VANGOR, DRY CAST SUPERVISOR AT INDIAN POINT, HOLTEC INTERNATIONAL: That it can blow up. It can't blow up when the plant was running, it couldn't blow up.

WEIR: Brian Vangor spent his career at Indian Point before New York Democrats like Andrew Cuomo and RFK, Jr. helped shut it down. Safety, he insists, was never an issue.

VANGOR: So, 25 millirems is a typical maybe 1 or 2 chest x-rays. You'd have to stand at the plant fence 24/7 for an entire year to receive that radiation. Each one of these canisters weighs 360,000 pounds. They're designed for floods earthquakes, fires explosion, aircraft impact, you name it, they can withstand it.

WEIR: Data shows that when measuring deaths from accidents and pollution, coal, oil and gas are the most dangerous power sources by far, while nuclear ranks with wind and solar among the safest. But uranium mining can still have a steep environmental cost, and the waste remains radioactive for centuries.

One pellet of enriched uranium holds as much power as one ton of coal so these 127 canisters hold all the pellets that produced 50 years worth of electricity for a big chunk of New York City. Hell of a legacy. But now they've got to figure out what to do with this.

In 2010, Harry Reid and Nevada Democrats killed a plan to bury the nations nuclear waste under Yucca Mountain. And with no new plan, it has been piling up at dozens of sites around the country ever since.

PAUL MURRAY, DEPUTY ASSISTANT SECRETARY FOR SPENT NUCLEAR FUEL & HIGH LEVEL WASTE DISPOSITION, DEPT. OF ENERGY: If we move it at 3,000 tons a year, which is a lot of fuel to be moving. It would take us approximately 50 years to move the interim storage.

WEIR: And that's just interim storage. A permanent site could take 250 years to fill and close first, they have to build the worlds safest train car to move it. And then they have to find a community to take it, likely in exchange for a fortune in taxpayer dollars. Nominations could start next year and could indicate whether the politics of nuclear energy is any less radioactive.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WEIR (on camera): As it stands right now, the U.S. government pays hundreds of millions of taxpayer dollars each year to utility companies around the country, all those sites, basically the penalty for not picking up their spent nuclear waste. The idea is to pool that money, give it to one host site to accept it all forever.

But it's really interesting right now in a bitterly divided Congress, the one thing that seems pretty bipartisan is nuclear energy. Both Republicans for a long time have supported it more and more. Democrats, these days, well see what their appetite is now for a plan to clean up the waste but the fear and loathing of nuclear energy seems to be fading -- Erica.

HILL: Yes, certainly does. Bill, appreciate it. Thank you.

Also ahead, also tonight, freaked out. That's how one doctor is describing his reaction to A.I.'s ability to outperform him at diagnosing medical conditions outperforming by a lot. And he's not the only doctor A.I. bested in a new study.

Take a look at some of this. A.I. correctly diagnosed the illness 90 percent of the time in this study. Doctors not using A.I., they only got it right 74 percent of the time.

When those doctors used A.I. as well -- well, they only saw a slight improvement at better diagnosing these conditions.

The study itself was led by my guest tonight. OUTFRONT now is Dr. Adam Rodman. He's also an internal medicine physician at Beth Israel Deaconess Medical Center in Boston.

It's great to have you here. I'm fascinated by this. First of all, so in these early stages, it seems that A.I., based on this study that you did, is actually already better at diagnosing medical conditions than you, and most doctors working today and as I understand it, this is not really what you expected to find going into this study.

DR. ADAM RODMAN, INTERNAL MEDICINE PHYSICIAN, BETH ISRAEL DEACONESS MEDICAL CENTER: Yeah, not at all. I was well, like the headline said, I was shocked. What we did is, you know, a lot of health systems around the country have given privacy like HIPAA compliant chatbots to doctors. And one of the thoughts in my field is that if humans use an A.I., it will always perform better than the A.I. alone.

So I expected that we would see a huge gain in humans using the A.I. system. So we did a randomized controlled trial. We gave half the doctors just standard resources to solve cases, and the other half were allowed to use the A.I. system, which to be clear, just ChatGPT nothing fancy.

And what we found is that there was no difference. And then of course, the reason that I'm here and I think the reason that everyone is a little bit shocked is that the A.I. system by itself did amazing.

[19:50:03]

It did much better, to the point that the humans were actually bringing down the performance of the A.I. system.

HILL: So, I mean, we got your reaction. You were shocked. What about your fellow physicians?

RODMAN: Yeah, there's a lot of angst. I mean, these are its a mixed its a mix of emotions because when you look at being a doctor, this is a job that we train for, for a long time. Four years of medical school, a long time of residency, 80 hour weeks and doctors pride ourselves on our cognitive abilities, on our abilities to make complex diagnoses. It's like House M.D., or to make the right management decision.

So a lot of people, and myself included, are like flabbergasted -- flabbergasted. What does it mean that a large language model can do the things that we have trained so much to do at the same time, I'm excited also, and I think a lot of doctors are excited because we recognize that there are a lot of problems with misdiagnosis, the stat from David Newman-Toker was 796,000 Americans are killed or seriously injured each year because of diagnostic errors.

So, also excitement that maybe using these technologies responsibly can make our patients safer.

HILL: You mentioned that nearly 800,000 deaths a year due to misdiagnosis. Do you think this is going to be a push then? I know it's a small study. It's an initial study. But do you think this will serve as a catalyst for more doctors to use A.I. tools?

RODMAN: Well, what I hope is that this is a catalyst to study this more. I have to be very, very clear. This is a simple experiment. It is directional though, right? It does suggest that these tools are powerful and it does fit in with the existing literature that these A.I. systems do make diagnoses very well. It doesn't mean that were going to replace doctors with ChatGPT

probably no time soon but I think it is a message that the medical community needs to take these technologies seriously and think about how we can use them best to take care of our patients.

HILL: So really quickly, you're not worried about it taking your job yet? Do you have concerns, though, about A.I. getting something wrong?

RODMAN: Oh, 100 percent. So, A.I. systems, you know the euphemism here is hallucinate. They make up things all the time. Depending on the study, they make up things anywhere between 5 and 20 percent of times.

You can see how this is not something that you want in a high stakes field with diagnosis, so I am not at all suggesting that these technologies are ready to replace doctors or even replace the cognitive processes of being a doctor, but they keep getting better and what were seeing, including in some of my own research, they're getting dramatically better and fast.

HILL: Could be -- could be an added tool. Maybe we just need to work on learning how to use them a little better, which we all need to do in all of our fields, right?

Dr. Adam Rodman, great to have you with us tonight. Thank you.

RODMAN: Thank you so much for having me, Erica.

HILL: OUTFRONT next, TikTok star parrots Putin and wins the first round of a very closely watched election. A shocking upset. So just who is he?

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[19:57:30]

HILL: Tonight, a pro-Putin TikTok star shocks the world, winning the first round of an election. Now headed for a runoff after going viral with videos like this, which clearly seem inspired by one Vladimir Putin, his admiration for the Russian leader doesn't stop there, and Western leaders are now sounding the alarm.

Melissa Bell is OUTFRONT.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CALIN GEORGESCU, FRONT-RUNNER FOR THE ROMANIAN PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION: Romania is waking up! We're not changing our masters, we're changing the system!

MELISSA BELL, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): He appeared to come out of nowhere, but Calin Georgescu, a far right populist, won the first round of Romania's presidential elections on Sunday.

More than 2 million people in the country which borders Ukraine, chose a candidate vocal about his pro-Russia and anti-NATO stance. His success, in part attributed to a relentless TikTok campaign in

which he showed off his love of riding and martial arts, church, and country, emulating Vladimir Putin, whom Georgescu admires.

And it's not only the Russian president's bare-chested, virile image that's being copied, but his politics too, traditional, anti-Western, anti-NATO. To the right even of the country's far right, Georgescu stood as an independent but now heads to the runoff after winning almost 23 percent of the vote.

And that's led to fears among NATO members that this eastern flank ally may move away from its support for Ukraine.

GEORGESCU: I'm running for Romania, not for Ukraine. Neither my supporters nor the Romanian people are interested in Ukraine or Putin.

BELL: And with a looming Donald Trump presidency, there's fresh concern now over a more divided Europe, as one more country takes a step potentially against NATO and towards Moscow, this time on Ukraine's very border.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BELL (on camera): Calin Georgescu will now take on Elena Lasconi on December 8th. But whatever the outcome of Romania's presidential election, the fact that a candidate as pro-Moscow and anti-NATO should have gotten such a large proportion of the vote in a country that so far has been so pro-Kyiv, has set alarm bells ringing not just in European capitals but in NATO's as well, Erica.

HILL: Yeah, absolutely.

Melissa Bell, appreciate the reporting. Thank you.

And before we leave, you tonight, just to note, one way to kick off your Thanksgiving, join John Berman and me for CNN's ultimate Thanksgiving watch party, "THANKSGIVING IN AMERICA".

We're going to take you all around the country for America. We're going to take you all around the country for parades across the country, some very special celebrity guests. The party starts right here, 8:00 a.m. on CNN, and also streaming on MAX.

We hope you'll join us. Have a very happy Thanksgiving. Thanks so much for joining us tonight.

"AC360" with John Berman starts now.