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Erin Burnett Outfront

Police Looking At Whether Suspect's Back Injury Had Role In Murder; CNN Goes Inside Assad's Palace After Rebels Seize It; Family Of Missing U.S. Reporter In Syria Hopeful To See Son After 12 Years. Aired 7-8p ET

Aired December 10, 2024 - 19:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[19:00:38]

ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST: OUTFRONT next:

The breaking news, a possible motive. Investigators looking into whether the CEO murder suspect's back injury was central to the killing. Luigi Mangione friend says his hurt back led to other major health issues. His friend will be OUTFRONT.

Plus, a wealthy and powerful Mangione family. We'll speak to a reporter who has covered them. Did any of them try to contact police when Mangione's picture was everywhere on national television.

And, an American family holding out hope tonight. U.S. reporter Austin Tice has been missing in Syria for more than 12 years, but his parents believe tonight that he is still alive and well. They are my guests.

Let's go OUTFRONT.

And good evening. I'm Erin Burnett.

OUTFRONT tonight, the breaking news in the CEO assassin case. New York police saying moments ago that investigators are looking at a possible back injury, that CEO murder suspect Luigi Mangione may have suffered from in July 2023.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE KENNY, CHIEF OF DETECTIVES, NYPD: He was posting an X-ray on his social media showing numerous screws being inserted into his spine.

Some of the writings that he had, he was discussing the difficulty of sustaining that injury.

So we're looking into whether or not the insurance industry either denied a claim from him or didn't help him out to the fullest extent. He knew that this conference was taking place at that time.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BURNETT: This is the suspect is lashing out in front of the cameras.

Here is 26-year-old Luigi Mangione outside a Pennsylvania courtroom today. Just looking at that image, you can feel the rage. None of the expressionless gazes that suspects in the center of public firestorm often display. No, look at him. Mangione was yelling and struggling with officers.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LUIGI MANGIONE, ALLEGED CEO KILLER: It's completely out of touch and an insult to the intelligence of the American people. It's lived experience!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BURNETT: You heard it there. Mangione was shackled at the hands and feet, wearing an orange prison jumpsuit.

Now there he was outside, and you can see that yelling, fighting. And then inside the courtroom, our reporter there says the suspects color was disheveled when he actually got there, and that he was surrounded at that time by half a dozen uniformed officers.

Mangione's appearance in court, coming as Pennsylvania state police have shared this new image of Mangione standing -- sitting, I'm sorry, inside the McDonald's in Altoona, Pennsylvania, where he was captured. The images come from an officer body cam, and they show Mangione eating a hash brown.

And we're also learning tonight that he was the suspect of a missing person report filed in San Francisco by his mother. Now, this is according to "The New York Times".

And here's what's really important about the timing on this. That report was filed on November 18th. That's just about two weeks, 16 days before the UnitedHealthcare CEO, Brian Thompson, was shot and killed. The timing could end up being important because Mangione had stopped communicating with friends and family six months ago.

But that missing persons report, we understand, came in just 16 days before the shooting.

Danny Freeman is OUTFRONT in Philadelphia to begin our breaking coverage tonight.

And, Danny, what is the latest that you're learning there?

DANNY FREEMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Erin, first off, what a different tone tonight at the Blair county courthouse compared to what we witnessed last evening over there. It was just stunning to see Luigi Mangione as you played screaming and yelling as he went from that squad car into the courthouse. But CNN also learned in the past hour and a half or so that his new defense attorney, during that all important extradition hearing earlier this afternoon, actually told him to keep quiet during that appearance in front of that judge.

But Erin, there's just still so many unanswered questions right now about this case. Even with Mangione in custody. So we went back to try and understand better his roots. We came right here to where he went to college.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

FREEMAN (voice-over): Years before he'd be escorted into a Pennsylvania courthouse, Luigi Mangione spent time more than 200 miles east here at the University of Pennsylvania in Philadelphia. The prestigious Ivy League university, confirming Mangione graduated on May 18th, 2020 with a bachelors and masters degree in engineering.

That means he likely spent much of his time here at the School of Engineering and Applied Science. Now, while there weren't a lot of people who knew him or willing to speak to us about him on camera, at least one student said that he was a TA of computer and information sciences.

Also, in a since taken down post for the university's Penn Today, Mangione was featured for leading a 60 student club that made video games.

[19:05:04]

Quote: I wanted to make my own game and so I learned how to code, Mangione told a university writer.

JARED MITOVICH, EDITOR-IN-CHIEF, THE DAILY PENNSYLVANIAN: He was a member of the honor society and engineering school, which is only for the top students in the class. He was involved in a fraternity on campus.

FREEMAN: UPenn student newspaper editor in chief Jared Mitovich said his team has been working to see if there were any signs then of what was to come.

MITOVICH: What was the type of education he received at Penn, the type of place where he would have learned how to 3D print? Is it the type of place where he, you know, was exposed to, you know, certain beliefs just in like the groups that he ran into or like the things that he was involved in?

FREEMAN: Mangione grew up in a wealthy family from Baltimore. According to "The Baltimore Sun", his grandfather, Nicholas Mangione, built a local real estate empire that included nursing home facilities around Maryland and two suburban country clubs.

In a statement released by Mangione's cousin, Maryland State Delegate Nino Mangione, his family said they were shocked and devastated by Luigi's arrest.

At his arraignment Monday night, Mangione told the judge he had been in contact with his family, quote, until recently.

MANGIONE: It's been an incredible journey.

FREEMAN: Mangione graduated valedictorian in 2016 from Baltimore's prestigious all boys The Gilman School.

Former classmates couldn't believe he was now this suspect.

FREDDIE LEATHERBURY, SUSPECT'S HIGH SCHOOL CLASSMATE: I can tell you that this is one of the last people you'd think would do something like this.

FREEMAN: In recent years, according to a friend and online postings, though, Mangione suffered from back pain and underwent surgery to treat it. A Reddit user matching his biographical details writing in July 2023, my back and hips locked up after the accident. Intermittent numbness has become constant. I'm terrified of the implications.

But after maintaining a social media presence for years, Mangione went quiet this past summer and appeared to stop communicating with his family.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

FREEMAN (on camera): Also notable, Erin, has Mangione started to fade from his online presence, people noticed. At least one user tweeting at him saying, I haven't heard from you in months. Another in late November, just before the shooting posting, thinking of you and prayers every day in your name. Know that you are missed and loved.

And, Erin, I'll note that the University of Pennsylvania declined to comment further for this story -- Erin.

BURNETT: Danny, thank you very much.

So, Tim Clemente is here now, former FBI counterterrorism agent, Mary Ellen O'Toole, senior profiler for the FBI, and Mark O'Mara, a criminal defense attorney and former prosecutor.

Tim, can I start with you? I just want to play again that outburst because, you know, often when you see a suspect like this, there's a stone faced would be the way you describe them. This couldn't have been more the opposite of that.

Luigi Mangione right outside court today. Here he is.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MANGIONE: It's completely out of touch and an insult to the intelligence of the American people. It's lived experience!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BURNETT: Tim, it's disturbing to watch that. What he says, we had -- we had it written on the bottom of the screen. But just in case anyone's just listening, it's completely out of touch and an insult to the intelligence of the American people. It's lived experience, you hear him shout, and he sounds distressed. He's fighting against police as he does that.

What do you make of this?

TIM CLEMENTE, FORMER FBI COUNTERTERRORISM AGENT: This is -- this is him showing himself the showing what he cares about, which is himself, obviously.

I mean, he's not -- not distraught, not going in there with his head held low, not going in there like he's embarrassed by this. This is his moment. And apparently in the last 5 or 6 days, he's probably looked at a lot of social media and seen how many adulating fans he has around the world that are saying he's a hero. These mistaken, misguided people that are trying to say what he did was good.

I mean, he committed a cold blooded murder, obviously planned it for some time, and now he's basking in the limelight. This is -- this is his moment, his 15 minutes of fame. And he's taking all the advantage he can out of it.

BURNETT: Mary Ellen, there was also a photo taken during those moments in the hearing. And as I described this, it's -- I mean, the rage is palpable. The sneer, the rage from his eyes, from his expression, the sneer on his face, his mouth. And we also have the mug shot.

Now this is just a straight stare. But when you look at him in these photos and when you see that outburst, that rage in that still photo, what do you see, Mary Ellen?

MARY ELLEN O'TOOLE, FORMER SENIOR FBI PROFILER & FBI SPECIAL AGENT: Well, there are definitely signs of rage and anger, but here's the -- here's the conundrum. You have to really look at what his behavior was like, for example, in the car pulling up there before they got him out of the car. Was he cool, calm and collected?

So then he gets out of the car and then he immediately has this outburst. So was that brought about by the fact that the cameras are on the media was there and it immediately put him into the role of wanting a lot of attention.

And you have to consider that before you rule it one way or the other. I've seen a lot of offenders, when they go to court, they will act up because it is their time to get that attention, to get that notoriety.

[19:10:09]

The other thing that I look at with him is this if he was so quick to anger like that, there's an absence of any kind of reports of him getting in fights with people, of him even being arrested by the police for this quick temper. So something is causing this, and its important that and investigators will, they'll go back to take a look at is there something medically is there something mentally to understand -- better understand what's going on with him.

BURNETT: So, Mark, what's interesting in terms of his -- if this was him trying to seize the moment and control the narrative and have his moment in front of the cameras when he was in court today with his lawyer. And so he's, you know, just met this lawyer, right? His lawyer has admitted that he told his client at one point to be quiet and not talk, and then also said this about Mangione.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) TOM DICKEY, LUIGI MANGIONE'S ATTORNEY: This is not just a small thing. The fundamental concept of American justice is a presumption of innocence, and until you're proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. And I've seen zero evidence at this point.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BURNETT: What do you think of that, Mark?

MARK O'MARA, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY, FORMER PROSECUTOR: First of all, I just the zero evidence, okay, because nothing has come out yet. I would probably be a bit more circumspect about saying it, because we know some of the evidence is out there. This case is going to run two tracks.

One track is the forensic evidence. Did he do it from an evidentiary standpoint? It's going to be very strong because our digital evidence is so strong in cases like this, from cameras to the cell phones themselves.

But the other part of it is the mental health mitigation. If they can prove he did it, then the question is why? And I see in those outbursts and these actions, I see nuggets of mental health mitigation coming out to the forefront.

And everything has been consistent for six months or more from the, you know, coming off social media, stopping conversations with his family and friends, some bizarre behaviors that we've seen. All of that, I think is going to show itself as a beginnings of a mental health defense to not did he do it? But why?

BURNETT: Right. Okay. Which -- which could be crucial. So, Tim, to this point, Mangione's mother, according to "The New York Times, reportedly filed a missing persons report for him in San Francisco, okay, on November 18th. That was just two weeks before the shooting.

Now, as Mark's pointing out, we know that Mangione stopped communicating with family and friends about six months ago so that timing may make this even more mysterious, right? Nobody reports him missing as we understand it at this point for six months until two weeks before the actual shooting.

And it also brings into context this. And does everyone remember this, this, this image right here of him on the phone, that's just a few minutes before Brian Thompson walks down the street, Tim, and is allegedly killed by Mangione. He's on his cell phone and he's talking to someone.

So now we know he really cut off contact with everyone, it makes that call perhaps even more important. Who do you think he may have been talking to?

CLEMENTE: Well, you know, Erin, it's a guess on my part, but I would think that somebody might have been helping him locate Thompson and time Thompson's arrival to the hotel for the convention. And so, it could have been something innocent and inadvertent, like talking to a doorman at the hotel that Thompson was staying at, you know, making a plea.

Hey, I sent my resume to UnitedHealthcare, and I'm really hoping to meet the CEO today at the investors conference. Can you just let me know when he's arriving? Maybe I can bump into him in the lobby or something. And, you know, you do something like that and say, hey, here's my number. Call me if you find out when he's leaving the hotel.

Or it could be. I mean, there's -- there's a possibility of accomplices. He wrote in his mini manifesto that, you know, to the feds that he acted alone, but that doesn't mean he's telling the truth. But I think there's a possibility that he was gaining intelligence and that phone call had something to do with that, because the close proximity to the time and place of the killing is very important, and it's a call that I'm sure NYPD and the FBI are tracking down in every way they can.

BURNETT: And, Mark, I know you think that call is crucial to now.

O'MARA: I think it's crucial for covering. I think, look, when you plan on shooting somebody, if that was true, you also probably plan on getting shot yourself. I think that that phone call may have been saying goodbye to somebody, whether it's a mother, a friend, whatever could have been a coconspirator cohort, I grant you that. But I think its going to be significant because of who he is possibly saying goodbye to more than anything else.

BURNETT: Yeah. And if and of course, if it was someone, that person didn't say anything subsequently to anyone. In fact, as we understand from the NYPD, no one did. No one in his family with all these images said that they thought it might be him.

Thank you all very much. I appreciate your time.

And next, the CEO murder suspect was high school valedictorian who said this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

[19:15:02]

MANGIONE: The people in our lives, especially our parents and teachers, had such huge roles.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BURNETT: This comes as we learn new details about the wealthy and powerful Mangione family. And even as he faces murder charges for killing a man in cold blood, many Americans are celebrating Mangione.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This Ivy League hottie named Luigi is the Robin Hood that we never knew that we needed.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BURNETT: Plus, inside Assad's palace after the dictator fled to Russia. You see her there?

Clarissa Ward will be OUTFRONT.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BURNETT: Breaking news.

[19:20:00]

The lawyer for the alleged killer, Luigi Mangione won't say if the prominent and wealthy Mangione family hired him. Mangione family is influential in the Baltimore area. They own two country clubs, a nursing home, a radio station, among other things.

Luigi went to an elite all-boys high school where tuition runs about $40,000 a year. He was valedictorian there, and we want to play part of his graduation speech so you can see and hear him before he allegedly gunned down the CEO of America's biggest health care company.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MANGIONE: The class of 2016 inventiveness also stems from its incredible courage to explore the unknown and try new things. The people in our lives, especially our parents and teachers, had such huge roles as well. The parents here today, first off, sending us to Gilman was far from a small financial investment. I'd like to personally thank each of you for sending your sons here, as I can't imagine the class of 2016 without any one of these men on stage.

Father, thank you for all the time and love you've put into our lives. You've instilled values in us, fed and clothed us, and simply been there for us every step of the way. I'd also like to thank every Gilman teacher and faculty member here today throughout all three divisions of the school. Our imagination draws from your inspiration and our courage largely depends on your encouragement in the classroom, on the fields, and on the stage.

So parents and faculty, thank you for all you have done for us. Today is as much an achievement for you as it is for us.

As I conclude my speech, I have to remember that a valedictory by definition is a farewell. We seniors have been hiding from it all year, and I've even been avoiding it in my speech.

But now, it's time to face the truth. Our time as Gilman students has come to an end. It seems like just yesterday that we were freshmen, having tie wars and playing computer games and CT20. But now we're moving on.

Just like -- just like we've done in these past few years, we'll be exploring the unknown, whether that be attending colleges across the country, traveling the world during gap years, or fulfilling military service in foreign countries.

As we embrace the new, however, we won't forget the old. Our friendships, values and memories from Gilman will always stay with us.

So to the class of 2016, a kind of class that only comes around once every 50 years, it's been an incredible journey and I simply can't imagine the last few years with any other group of guys. Thank you.

(APPLAUSE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Great job. Very good.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BURNETT: Eight years later, he is now the suspected shooter carrying out an assassination against the CEO of the largest health care company in America, talking there about the time and love of his parents, the values that he was raised with.

OUTFRONT now, Jacques Kelly, a longtime columnist at "The Baltimore Sun", who has interacted with the Mangione family over the years.

And, Jacques, I really appreciate your time hearing him there and seeing him there. A valedictorian surrounded by his classmates and elite prominent high school in Baltimore. It fits with what we have heard -- a life of privilege, a high achieving and likable kid. I mean, that's what you see there. It is so jarring to watch this now.

But that's really who he is, or was, that family, such a powerful and prominent family, right?

JACQUES KELLY, BALTIMORE SUN REPORTER: The family is incredible. I've known them for a while. I've written about them over the years. They were totally self-made.

I've written about the -- Luigi's grandparents and they're wonderful people who gave back to Baltimore. They -- although they made a lot of money, they also wrote checks to hospitals, the Walters Art Museum, educational institutions. It just seems unthinkable what has happened.

BURNETT: So --

KELLY: I mean, the -- they were so proud of their achievements too, and rightfully so.

BURNETT: So what was it like, Jacques, for, you know, for someone of Luigi's generation, right? You're talking about the grandparents had made, you know, so much of this business empire had come from them for Luigi, a grandson, to grow up in Baltimore. I mean, can you just explain to describe to people a bit how privileged and powerful such an experience would have been?

KELLY: Well, Gilman's a very fine school, and it produces -- has produced over the years many, many of the leaders of Baltimore City. I'm thinking of mayors and, particularly business leaders and the code of ethics there is very strong, and it just -- it just does not add up. It just seems a complete aberration.

BURNETT: It is shocking. And I think, you know, playing that, you know, it truly is jarring.

I mean, I know you obviously have covered for many years because they are an important family in Towson and Baltimore. Towson is a small town in many respects. And I know you spoke with the Mangione family in 2023, specifically with Luigi's uncle for an obituary on his grandmother and grandfather, Luigi's grandmother and grandfather. And then the two of you became close.

KELLY: We did, we did, and we would talk on the phone. And I mean, when his grandmother died, we took the unusual step in "The Baltimore Sun" of running a picture of her surrounded by not all of her grandchildren, but so many of them. And she was just this happy, smiling lady, and the children's faces just were beaming too. It's a very loving family.

The family, as I mentioned before, also has given so much back to the community in Baltimore. They made the money, but they didn't sit on it.

BURNETT: Well, it is really fascinating as we just try to understand something that, of course, fundamentally, in so many ways will remain incomprehensible.

Jack, thank you very much. I very much appreciate your time.

KELLY: All right.

BURNETT: And next, Luigi Mangione's cult following online.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think he'll go down as a hero in history.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BURNETT: And the parents of American reporter Austin Tice who's been missing in Syria for a dozen years speak out tonight OUTFRONT.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:30:32]

BURNETT: Breaking news: The alleged killer Luigi Mangione denied bail as many people are sympathizing with him online tonight. The book "Delay, Deny, Defend," which is about the health insurance industry's tactics, jumping to number two on Amazon's nonfiction bestsellers list, number two. Safe to say that book would never have been anywhere near number two if it were not for Luigi Mangione.

Those three words "delay, deny, defend" were almost identical to the ones found on shell casings near the crime scene. And on Yelp, the McDonald's where he was apprehended has been hit with a flood of one star reviews, calling the employees, quote, snitches and rats.

Jason Carroll is OUTFRONT.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This Ivy League hottie named Luigi is the Robin Hood that we never knew that we needed.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I listened to Luigi's manifesto this morning three times and I cried. Honestly, it's beautiful and I agree with him.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He left a very powerful message and he highlighted how terrible the health care system is in America. I think he'll go down as a hero in history.

JASON CARROLL, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): He'd been a named suspect for less than 48 hours, and yet within a fraction of that time, many in the world of social media had already made up their minds about Luigi Mangione.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm just eating it up because this is like -- regular, everyday person becoming our hero, our vigilante.

CARROLL: These types of comments angering law enforcement and public officials.

GOV. KATHY HOCHUL (D), NEW YORK: I don't care your views about health care companies because I don't think they're great right now either. But you do not celebrate the assassination of another human being who was just doing his job.

CARROLL: But interest in Mangione just continues to grow. On X before his arrest announcement, he had just 64 followers. Now, more than 320,000 and counting. His initial 827 followers on Instagram grew exponentially Monday as we watched. By 3:00, more than 32,000, an hour later, 53,000 by 5:00 Monday, more than 71,000 followers before that account was suspended.

Many of the comments calling for his freedom and calling him a hero.

GOV. JOSH SHAPIRO (D), PENNSYLVANIA: Hear me on this. He is no hero. The real hero in this story is the person who called 911 at McDonald's.

CARROLL: That McDonald's in Altoona, Pennsylvania, where a worker spotted the 26-year-old eating and called 911 Monday, targeted by Mangione supporters.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What am I going to do? I'm going to stop eating at McDonald's.

CARROLL: It got so bad Google had to remove reviews after that location was flooded with negative comments.

Someone hung a banner above I-83 with the words "deny, defend, oppose, health care for all," a reference to bullet casings left at the crime scene.

Amazon pulled apparel and home goods featuring the phrase. Online, Mangione may be a folk hero to some, but offline and in

person, no shortage of those condemning him.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Health care is a mess in this country, but to celebrate somebody's death is sickening.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The people in these higher positions, like CEOs, they need to look at themselves and their company and ask themselves, why are people so ready to condemn us? Why are they so willing to call someone who supposedly killed another human being a hero?

CARROLL: While some suspect support for Mangione is not all about rage against health care, but instead something far more subjective and superficial.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's the halo effect, like manifesting in real society.

CARROLL: You really like?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I truly believe so. Like people treat people who are attractive like way differently.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: People are like giving him leeway with this because they are fantasizing him a little bit, but I don't think violence should ever be the answer no matter the circumstance.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CARROLL (voice-over): Erin, this could just end up being one of those cases that just ends up capturing the attention of the American people for a period of time. I mean, you look at what's happening right now on eBay. At last checks, still selling merch related to this case and the hashtag "Free Luigi Mangione" is something that's still trending even at this hour -- Erin.

BURNETT: Incredible. Jason, thank you very much. It was fascinating just to hear from all of those people.

R.J. Martin is back with me now. He's the owner of Surfbreak Honolulu HNL, a co-living community in Honolulu where he lived with and was good friends with Luigi Mangione, the suspected CEO killer.

So, R.J., I'm glad to speak with you again. As things happen here, its so important to have your input and insight because you know him better than -- than, well, many. I mean, most people that were close to him.

So when you see the video of your friend Luigi shouting entering court today to face these charges, you know, and he was basically resisting and he's fighting and he's screaming out, what do you think when you see that? Is that is that in any way the person that you know?

R.J. MARTIN, LIVED WITH LUIGI MANGIONE, SUSPECT IN CEO KILLING: I would like to I'd like to comment on the video of him giving his valedictorian speech. BURNETT: Yeah. Go ahead.

MARTIN: Thoughtful, humble, good listener, that -- that's the Luigi I knew, somebody who could lead a conversation, but at the same time, listen more than he spoke. Somebody who, you know, really cared about those around him and had a larger mind that was socially conscious, somebody that was just good to me and the other people that that we live together with at Surfbreak.

BURENTT: And so, you know, and I know you've talked about that's the person that you knew, obviously not -- not the -- the sort of anger and the rage that we saw today. And you said you didn't see or hear any anger or rage, even when he was talking about things like capitalism or housing or health care or things that he was -- had criticism for, but that that was an intellectual sort of criticism, as you described it to me before.

He had posted a review for the Unabomber manifesto online, and that's been available for a while for people to see, right. And I know as part of the book club that he had started with you at Surfbreak, you know, he had also put the Unabomber manifesto as something for that group. What did he say about that at the time?

MARTIN: You know, we had a lively discussion about the manifesto as a group, a collective discussion, but nothing about it, I think, stood out more than other conversations that we had. And, you know, frankly, I think after reading and skimming part of it, I don't think the ideas in it were that original in terms of, you know, you know, how were destroying our planet and how we need to reevaluate our systems.

So nothing about that conversation stuck out. He wasn't upset. He wasn't angry. I've never seen him upset or angry even. I'm definitely would put him in the chill, like, nonviolent category of people.

BURNETT: So, last night, we -- when we spoke, you talked about his back and how much that was just weighing on him and the pain, and that even a basic surfing lesson kept him in bed for a week. He had to get a new mattress. And police are now saying they think that that back pain may be central to what happened here.

I'm curious, though, when you talked about his social life a bit, when you and I had that conversation. We didn't get to talk about the implications of the pain that he was going through. Did he? Did he date when you knew him? Did he talk at all about his romantic life?

MARTIN: You know, if you are in severe pain on and off, its obviously going to affect all aspects of your life. You know, out of respect for his privacy and for the surf break, community privacy, I don't want to comment at all on his dating or any of the other members dating while -- while we live together.

BURNETT: Yeah. No, I don't mean whether they were dating, I just mean I know that, you know, you've talked a bit about the -- you know, how the back pain that he had could have made it impossible for him to be physically intimate, and that this was something that may have been frustrating for him, they try to understand sort of what he was going through.

Do you think that this could end up being something important?

MARTIN: I think that pain is something that can change our brain chemistry. You know, I think its something that changes our thoughts, and I don't know, because I don't have firsthand knowledge from him of how much pain he was in or what he was dealing with. But I do know, you know, from personal experience and from other friends and, and family that when somebody is suffering the way they think about themselves and the world gets warped drastically. And a lot of times you, you go to dark places when you're in excruciating pain and, you know, perhaps not receiving the care or the support that you need.

BURNETT: All right. Well, R.J., thank you very much. I appreciate your time.

MARTIN: Good night.

BURNETT: All right. Good night.

And next, as Bashar al-Assad has yet to surface in Moscow, Clarissa Ward takes us inside the palace that he left behind. Wait until you see it.

And I'm going to speak to the parents of Austin Tice. He's been held in Syria for more than 12 years. But tonight they believe that he is alive and well. And they're going to tell us why.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:44:05]

BURNETT: Breaking news: prisoners liberated from Bashar al-Assad's most notorious and brutal prison, known as the slaughter house don't know their own names. That's incredible to think about what that implies. And it's according to a Syrian humanitarian organization, as there are no signs yet of Assad himself after he fled to Moscow.

Clarissa ward is OUTFRONT from Assad's presidential palace tonight.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CLARISSA WARD, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Outside the palace of Bashar al-Assad, Syrians gather to pose for photographs and celebrate the removal of its despised former owner.

The public is not allowed inside the sprawling compound yet where the courtyard stretched longer than a city block.

This is the driveway into Bashar al-Assad's palace. And you can see how enormous it is. There are still casings all over the ground from rebel celebratory gunfire as they swept in here and took control.

[19:45:04]

At the entrance, an Iranian flag unceremoniously laid out for people to step on. Iran, one of the regime's staunchest allies. Where once foreign dignitaries roamed the halls, now rebel fighters have the run of the place.

You can see blankets on the sofas in here. It looks like this is where the rebels are sleeping. And in fact, over here you can see they've got some kind of a makeshift dining area going. Some of their weapons here. A couple of rifles on this sofa.

So this gentleman here who is with the rebels has just asked that I put on my scarf. It's the first time since we've been here that anyone has asked me to cover my hair.

(SPEAKING ARABIC)

WARD: He says that he's from Idlib, and that this is the first time he's seeing the palace.

We feel that the injustice will break down one day and justice must win. This is the idea of justice in our religion, he says. In Islam, it is a must and a promise of Allah that Islam is victorious.

After nearly 14 years of a vicious civil war, to stand in this palace is a proud moment, capping off a seismic victory.

So the rebels here want to stress that they tell us that it was not their group that ransacked this office when they first swept in.

You can see, actually, some of the graffiti here that those first rebels wrote on the window. It says a law curse Hafez's soul, Hafez al-Assad being the father of Bashar.

When you look at these ceilings and these chandeliers, the marble, the detail, this is the kind of opulence, this lavish lifestyle that engendered so much resentment from so many Syrians who have been struggling to survive for decades while the Assad family lived like this.

In a warehouse, rows and rows of luxury cars, Ferraris, Lamborghinis and classic Cadillacs. This was a dynasty that will be remembered not only for its brutality, but its deep corruption.

Below the palace in the heart of Damascus, crowds gathered in Umayyad Square. Under Assad's rule, the Syrian people were forced to worship him. Now they finally have the freedom to celebrate his demise.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WARD (on camera): And, Erin, we definitely noticed a marked shift in the mood on the streets today. The first couple of days that we were here, a lot of people were staying at home. A lot of people were nervous about chaos, about looting, about further violence.

But today, you just saw those crowds out celebrating jubilant, enjoying this victory. And I think it's important to underscore that regardless of what the rebels might have told me inside the presidential palace, out in that square, there were Muslims, there were Christians, there were young, there were old. There were women who were covered. There were women who were uncovered, all of them coming together to start this new chapter -- Erin.

BURNETT: Clarissa, thank you very much. Absolutely incredible to see that.

And next, I'm going to speak to the parents of Austin Tice, the American journalist held in Syria for the past 12 years.

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[19:52:57]

BURNETT: Tonight, a manhunt for an American in Syria. The Biden administration tonight says finding missing journalist Austin Tice, who has been held in Syria for more than 12 years, is priority number one.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MATTHEW MILLER, SPOKESPERSON FOR THE U.S. DEPARTMENT OF STATE: We want anyone who is operating on the ground in Syria to be on the lookout for him.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BURNETT: The United States is looking into new reports that Tice may be in or around Damascus.

Tice is an American journalist, a former marine and Eagle Scout. He was captured while reporting on the Syrian civil war. This is the last time that Marc and Deborah saw their son. He was 30 years old. You see him there just days before he turned 31. He is now 43 years old.

And his parents are OUTFRONT now, Marc and Debra Tice.

And, Debra, here we are, more than 12 years since those horrifying images, the last that you saw of Austin. After that, you went to Syria. You spent nearly four months there meeting people, trying to find his trail, to find where he was. And you met some people that you became very close with. You've talked to a source that you've referred to as very significant there, telling you that now, Austin is being cared for and that he is well.

What can you share about how certain you are that Austin is okay?

DEBRA TICE, MOTHER OF AUSTIN TICE, AMERICAN JOURNALIST HELD IN SYRIA SINCE 2012: Well, I mean, it comes from intel that's been verified by many different agencies in the United States. They just don't want to share it. They don't want it to be public.

But it's verified. It's real and, as recent as August of this year.

BURNETT: As recent as August of this year.

Marc, what -- what makes you feel this confidence? I mean, it's not just that he's alive, but that he's being cared for, that he is -- I don't want to use the words in good hands in the context that we're in -- but that he is indeed doing well?

[19:55:09]

MARC TICE, FATHER OF AUSTIN TICE, AMERICAN JOURNALIST HELD IN SYRIA SINCE 2012: Well, that's the information that we've received, you know, based on these reports from confirmed sources.

So, you know, were -- and it's not just one report. It's several times we have heard definitively that he's being taken care of, you know, that he's in good health.

So we trust that because of the nature of the sources and, you know, right now, of course, were asking anyone who has the ability or comes in contact with Austin to help bring him back home to us safely.

BURNETT: And, Debra, your whole family has been gathered together at your home, and Austin is one of seven siblings. So, you know, all together, a very full, full house and I do you believe that his release is imminent? Is that why you feel so important to all be together right now?

D. TICE: Well, we certainly hope that his release is imminent. It's a bit frustrating that our government isn't urgent about it. They -- they're willing to think that Austin is going to pop up, but, there isn't a sense of urgency about finding him and making sure that he's okay. So I don't -- you know, now we're sort of getting the vibe about, you know, be patient, this could take some time kind of thing.

But, you know, whatever. Whenever he walks out, we're going to put our arms around him and we're going to move on and the rest of our lives, right? And -- but, you know, every minute is, is about a week long right now as we wait for him to walk free.

BURNETT: It's truly impossible for anyone to imagine. But the waiting, the agony as parents to wait for so long for a child.

Marc, when you say you understand he's -- he's doing well. Do you know anything about the circumstances under which he's been held or the duress of his situation or anything like that?

M. TICE: No, not in any kind of detail. Again, you know, the word that we've gotten is that his needs are being met and he's in reasonable health. And, you know, being treated humanely.

BURNETT: I mean, Marc, the last time you saw him, he was 30. He was, you know, it was his. And, you know, that's the last time you hugged him. And, you know, turns 31 and then you have those -- those horrible images.

You know, you all have described your son as he talked faster, walked smarter, was stronger, smarter than any child in the history of the world.

I know his siblings are around you right now, but nonetheless, do you think that that strength, the person that you knew, the marine, the eagle scout, all the wonderful things about your child will have sustained him through 12 years?

D. TICE: Well, he has a really, really strong will. He was always a strong willed person. He has a love of life.

I mean, a just a beam of life and, also, he's just very. There are things in his past and in the, in the literature that he was reading when he was in fourth grade and so forth. This has always been on his path. You know, he's on his path now. And its kind of an odd thing to say, but it but it comes from a life of faith.

And Austin also has that deep faith. And so he knows that his time will come and he will walk free. And what I pray for him is about Mandela and what Mandela said, which is not only do I need to come out of prison, but I must also be free by being fully forgiving. And so I pray that for Austin all the time.

M. TICE: I would just add that, he's a tremendously disciplined person, and so, you know, my image of him is getting up in the morning, doing his workout with whatever means he can. And, and then, you know, depending on what kind of material he has at hand, doing some kind of studying, you know, whether it's language or something else.

I just think of him as, as, you know, having a disciplined life even though he's in captivity.

BURNETT: Well, thank you both so very much. We all can only hope that that you and your children will have the incredible joy of seeing him again very soon. Thank you so much for talking to me.

D. TICE: A very happy Christmas. Yes, that's what we're waiting for, Erin. Thank you so much, yes, yes.

M. TICE: Thank you.

BURNETT: Thank you both.

And thanks to all of you for joining us.

"AC360" begins now.