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Erin Burnett Outfront
Judge Blocks Trump Order To Freeze Trillions In Federal Funding; Caroline Kennedy: RFK Jr. is "A Predator"; German Chancellor: Elon Musk's Right-Wing Push Is "Disgusting". Aired 7-8p ET
Aired January 28, 2025 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[19:00:36]
ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST: OUTFRONT next:
The breaking news, a setback for Trump from a federal judge who is blocking Trump's sweeping federal spending freeze with seconds to spare. It's only a temporary pause, though. Democrats warning it's a constitutional crisis.
Plus, he's a, quote, predator. That is from Caroline Kennedy about her first cousin who she grew up with, RFK, Jr., who faces a grueling confirmation hearing tomorrow morning. She is speaking out for the first time tonight.
And breaking news, the German chancellor calling Elon Musk disgusting, in exclusive comments to CNN. You'll see them first OUTFRONT.
Let's go OUTFRONT.
And good evening. I'm Erin Burnett.
And OUTFRONT tonight, we begin with that breaking news. A federal judge shutting Trump down just moments ago. This federal judge rejecting Trump's sweeping freeze on an estimated $3 trillion in federal spending.
Now, the ruling literally came down seconds before the funds were set to freeze at 5:00 p.m. Eastern. And that ruling stops Trump for now from halting approved government funds from being paid out.
Now, the judges order specifically stops the order laid out in this memo, which reads, quote, federal agencies must temporarily pause all activities related to obligation or disbursement of all federal financial assistance, words that today those words plunged states, schools, hospitals, nonprofits across America into chaos because federal funding is important for so many of them for part of their budgets.
Now, the judge also torpedoed the White Houses repeated claim that this pause, which obviously is very broad stroked, would not affect individual assistance, writing the government doesn't know the full scope of the programs that are going to be subject to the pause, which makes sense because they said must temporarily pause all activities related to disbursement of federal financial assistance. That is why here in New York, nonprofit groups this afternoon received
an email that we found out about that states that their contracts have been, quote, paused. And we'll see if there's an update after that judge's ruling. But that's what they had received before that.
And so then we spoke to the head of Citymeals, which provides meals for about 2 million low income seniors in New York City every year. Now, that particular group, Citymeals, doesn't receive federal funding. So what happened to them today was phone calls. They were deluged with them all day. They said 30 groups in New York City that do get federal funding were calling them and asking for help. They were desperate, trying to line up literally meals. The next meal, terrified they wouldn't be able to feed older adults who rely on their services.
Now, this is just one small example, obviously replicated across the country and tens of thousands of ways, and Republicans and Democrats have both been demanding answers. Just listen to Republican Don Bacon.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. DON BACON (R-NE): I hope it's short lived because there's real people that depend on these grants. There's no reason for the disruption.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: And there is more than that, a veritable cacophony from Democrats.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. CHUCK SCHUMER (D-NY), SENATE MINORITY LEADER: This is cruelty. This is lawlessness. This is a heist done on a national scale.
SEN. CHRIS MURPHY (D-CT): This is what a king does. This is not how a democracy works. One man does not decide how taxpayers' money is spent.
SEN. ANGUS KING (I-ME): I've never seen anything quite like this in American history.
SEN. JEFF MERKLEY (D-OR): We have a constitutional crisis.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Okay? A constitutional crisis, says Merkley. But the White House is defiant, suggesting that the rules don't apply because Trump won the election.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KAROLINE LEAVITT, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: The American people gave President Trump an overwhelming mandate on November 5th, and he's just trying to ensure that the tax money going out the door in this very bankrupt city actually aligns with the will and the priorities of the American people.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Jeff Zeleny is OUTFRONT live at the White House to begin our coverage.
So, Jeff, now you've got this, you know, the order comes out and it's freezing, essentially, all 3 -- $3 trillion of this federal spending. And then the judge temporarily halts it. So then now the ball is in Trump's court.
How far is he going to go to fight the order?
JEFF ZELENY, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Well, Erin, he is likely to go all the way to the Supreme Court and that is likely what the end game here is. Of course, there are many steps between now and then, but that is what's at issue here.
After a very confusing day, really a confusing 24 hours of, you know, which programs are going to be paused, which ones will be halted. And here in Washington, they, you know, are on spreadsheets.
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But across the country they actually affect real peoples lives. Now, the White House pushed back on the fact that any individual programs actually were affecting individual people. But then they acknowledged that the Medicaid portal, which is called, you know, that computer system that sends federal money to the states and the states give it to Medicaid recipients, that was not working.
So there was some confusion, some overreaction, and just uncertainty throughout the day. So as we sit here right now, there is this -- a pause until next week, February 3rd. And then at that point, all the parties have a chance to argue their case again.
But the bottom line here to this, Erin, is something called the Impoundment Control Act of 1974. Sounds arcane. We've talked about it. We'll be talking about it a lot more.
BURNETT: Yes, it does.
ZELENY: That is what the president, he says, that he can decide where the spending is, not Congress. Of course, that law was passed back then in the Nixon era, when Congress wanted to control the spending. President Trump believes that's unconstitutional. His White House counsel's office agrees with him. So that is what is setting up here.
So yet one more example of the expanded view of the presidential authority that Donald Trump has in his second term, Erin.
BURNETT: All right. Thank you very much, Jeff Zeleny.
And I want to go now to the Democratic Congressman Jim Himes here with me.
And it's nice to have you in person.
So this judge coming out temporarily pausing, as Jeff Zeleny points out, that this gets you essentially a week and Trump is -- is, it appears very clear going to keep pushing it. But it also, I mean, what's a week if you're worried about literally lining up your next meals and the example of Meals on Wheels, which we gave, right?
I mean, this is -- this is a state of limbo. And, and instability and insecurity for many.
REP. JIM HIMES (D-CT): Yeah. And you know, look, the constitutional question is not at all up for debate here. And every judge like the last judge is going to say something that we all learned in sixth grade civics, which is that Congress has the power of the purse. And no, the president doesn't have the right to say, sorry, Congress, even though you appropriated it, I'm not going to spend it.
Yes. Under the impoundment act, there's very, very limited circumstances, not policy related, and not because you won an election. But there are very limited circumstances under which the president can pause. But what we have here is a full blown -- so anyway, my point is the constitutional question here is not complicated. This should go through the courts in no time at all.
But along the way, as you point out, the tragedy, you know, federal energy assistance. Right now, I represent Connecticut. There are folks that represent North Dakota, that Minnesota. You know, people are wondering tonight whether they should order another round of heating oil to keep their houses warm.
You know what? Look, I understand that Donald Trump was elected to disrupt stuff, but I bet he wasn't elected to make people hungry, to make them homeless, and to make sure that they couldn't heat their houses in the winter.
BURNETT: Right, and then, you know, they came out with a clarifying saying, this is about this is even though it said all spending, right. It was to be paused, that this was actually about things about DEI, gender, green new deal. You know, they gave us they gave some -- well, this is what we really meant. And then the majority leader, John Thune, defended it. Okay?
So I gave obviously Don Bacon, who was critical. John Thune defended it. And I wanted to give you his reasons. Here he is.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. JOHN THUNE (R-SD), MAJORITY LEADER: I think they -- they are clarifying it. And I think this is not unusual for an administration to pause funding and to take a hard look and scrub of how these programs, how they're being spent and how they interact with a lot of the executive orders that the president signed.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: He's saying this is the norm. It is not unusual. HIMES: Not unusual. I mean, I don't know how to respond to that,
right? I mean, what you see there is --
BURNETT: You're saying it's not only unusual, it's unprecedented.
HIMES: Unprecedented. No, never has a history -- in our 250-year history. Has a president said, stop all foreign aid, stop all spending? So John Thune is saying this is not unusual -- no, no, it's not unusual. It is completely unprecedented.
It is unconstitutional. It's causing an immense amount of pain. And what John Thune is demonstrating there is the fact that every maybe Don Bacon is the exception. You sort of put Don Bacon up there, but, you know, every senator --
BURNETT: Don Bacon gave his obviously genuine punched in the gut response.
HIMES: Right, right. Because Don Bacon understands the pain that this is going to cause. But with the exception of Don Bacon, pretty much every other Republican member of the house and almost every Republican member of the Senate is a wholly owned subsidiary of Donald Trump.
So, I mean, you heard the presidents press secretary who said, the reason we can do this totally unconstitutional is because he won the election. Well, guess what? Right after you win the election to become president, you raise your right hand and you promise to support and defend the Constitution of the United States and to see that the laws be faithfully executed. That is not what is happening here.
So what you see in the president's press secretary and in John Thune is the extent to which Donald Trump owns them, hook, line and sinker.
BURNETT: So something else happened today that I don't know if you've seen on your way here, you might have, but Fox News is reporting that Pete Hegseth, the defense secretary, is planning to pull General Mark Milley portrait off the wall, which, you know, Trump did, too. But it goes further than that. First, personal security detail getting pulled.
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His security clearance is getting pulled. And that he's also looking into stripping Milley of a star.
So these are very, very serious things. The portrait obviously is the least of it. Obviously, Milley stood up to Trump. Trump as joint chiefs chairman. We know what Trump thinks of Milley.
But what's your reaction? Possibly stripping a star security detail, security clearance.
HIMES: Taking the security detail off of John Bolton, off of the people who have been threatened by Iran with death because of the Soleimani strike. This comes back to what I just said, which is that, you know, wholly owned subsidiary of Donald Trump. And if you're a four star officer in the Navy or in the Marine --
BURNETTT: Trump who approve that strike.
HIMES: -- or the army.
Exactly. And you know, the Iranians, you know, were going to go after people and Trump pulled their security detail. Why? Is that because there's a change in the security situation. No, I'm on the Intelligence Committee. I'm here to tell you, no, there is not.
But again, I just said that, you know, the senators and the congressmen are wholly owned subsidiaries of Donald Trump. He wants flag officers. He wants senior bureaucrats to be what he asked Jim Comey.
Remember this? You know, Jim Comey, eight years ago, he said, I want your loyalty. I want your loyalty 100 percent. Jim Comey said, well, I'm loyal to the Constitution. He got fired.
So the message that Donald Trump is sending here is that if you're a flag officer and you're doing what you think is right and constitutional, that's not good enough. You do what I tell you to do.
And, you know, Chris Murphy said that that's the action of a king. It's kind of the action of a king.
BURNETT: All right. Well, I appreciate your time. Thank you very much, Congressman Himes. Good to see you.
All right. And meanwhile, Stephen Miller, the president's deputy chief of staff, said tonight that President Trump issued the executive order for this reason.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
STEPHEN MILLER, WHITE HOUSE DEPUTY CHIEF OF STAFF FOR POLICY: There were some bureaucrats in the federal government who tried to push out money, billions of dollars for wicked and pernicious purposes that had to be frozen. A guidance memo was written. OMB guidance memos are, by their nature, complicated to read because this involves the federal budget.
The choice here is simple. It is very simple, and I want to state it clearly. Either Donald Trump gets political control over this government and ends the waste, abuse and fraud on the American people, or we let bureaucrats autopilot federal spending.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: All right. OUTFRONT now, former Governor Tim Pawlenty and Lulu Garcia-Navarro. So, governor, you know, you get this temporary halt from a judge. This whole thing is going to run its way up. But it does affect people across the country.
The OMB order reads in part. And this is, you know, to me, was the most clear, although not clear, part. Federal agencies must temporarily pause, all activities related to obligation or disbursement of all federal assistance. You know, and they said, oh, gender ideology and those things, but not limited to those things, all.
This is pretty simple when you look at it. And this is why you've got now -- you're going to have disarray or this, this, this time frame of uncertainty. I mean, it says everything.
TIM PAWLENTY (R), FORMER MINNESOTA GOVERNOR: I do think it's fair for a new administration to say, hey, look, were going to disperse these funds, but we want a little time to review certain things. And within our discretion, try to decide when and how we might do that within the law.
That being said, this was mishandled. And to your earlier point, Erin, it could have been categorically said, look, when it comes to things like nutrition and meal programs for needy people, those are exempted. When it comes to heating peoples homes in the winter, those are exempted. And you could go down the list and get to what they're really after, which is certain things like, DEI, or organizations that may be facilitating illegal immigration, those types of things.
And so good aspiration, bad implementation.
BURNETT: Lulu, you know, I am curious though, you know, obviously he's testing this right to the point of, you know, John Thune saying, well, this is not unusual. And you heard Congressman Himes say, well, no, it's not unusual. It's unprecedented.
But there's a pattern here. Trump is trying something. Birthright citizenship, perhaps another example. Right. He knows the initial whiplash reaction from a court is going to say, no way, no way unconstitutional. But he's testing it. It sounds like again and again.
LULU GARCIA-NAVARRO, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Yeah. You know, I am a student of language, and I like to sort of hear how things are described. And if you hear Stephen Miller there, apart from the use of wicked, you know, he is talking about the fact that Donald Trump needs to have complete control.
And this is the project that we know, has been trying to be implemented by this administration. There is this, you know, theory, unitary executive theory that they've been pushing for a long time, which is really empowering the president to make as many decisions as they can to sort of hold the power of the executive in the person of Donald Trump.
And so you're seeing these lines being pushed and pushed and pushed with the explanation that they're looking for DEI or they're looking for, you know, fraud or waste. But really by putting a blanket, a blanket statement out like this, what they're actually doing is saying, try me. This is my decision, and I'm going to take it to the courts, and I'm going to push this as far as I can.
[19:15:02] BURNETT: So, Governor, you know what? What it means on the ground. I mean, just some -- some headlines. And so we just were looking across the country, right? You're a former governor. In Arizona, chaos and confusion. Trump pauses federal aid. New York nonprofits feel federal grants could stop critical charity work.
You're -- it's -- it's across the country. There's this concern and we're seeing it. If anything, it's just -- it's confusion and fear, right? Are we going to be able to deliver the meals? What do we do? You know, and already cash strapped organizations.
So as a former governor, what does that confusion and fear mean on the ground?
PAWLENTY: Well, these groups, of course, do not like uncertainty. And ambiguity is nobody's friend. It's not the administration's friend, nor is it the recipient's friend. So getting this cleaned up, this judges orders will give at least a week. They'll have time to issue further clarifying memos, which they probably should have given some more homework to this before they issued it.
But on the ground, if you're an operational person, you run in a meals program and you say you have enough cash to get through next week, and all of a sudden, you're out of cash, that's a major problem. And guess what you do? You call your congressperson and say, get this fixed.
BURNETT: Right. All right. So you're speaking as a governor, Lulu, I am curious. Susan Collins, today, the senator, Republican, said I was surprised at its breadth when she referred to the memo. Republican Senator Kevin Cramer said, its a pretty major test of separation of powers.
And that that is really and its interesting because, Governor, you were saying, well, they could look at certain things in some pauses, but to this issue of controlling the power of the purse, and it is that is sixth grade civics, right? It's one of the few things that everybody would learn at that point. That's really what this is testing, isn't it?
GARCIA-NAVARRO: It's testing the fundamental separation of powers in this country. And that's why, you know, having this happen so early, you're seeing Democrats talking about a constitutional crisis, et cetera, et cetera. Democrats really didn't want to be in this position to sort of have to stand up to Donald Trump so early. They wanted to hold their fire. They wanted to let Donald Trump, you know, sort of shape the administration in the way that he saw fit.
But this goes to the heart of what Congress does. These monies had already been appropriated. They had already been approved, and they were only supposed to be dispersed to these many organizations, trillions of dollars across the country.
And I think the silver lining, perhaps, for this, for the American people, is that now they'll understand perhaps what the federal government does for them and what the federal dollars do.
BURNETT: Well, that's an -- I guess there's an odd silver lining in it.
All right, Lulu, thank you. Governor, thank you. I always appreciate spending time with you.
And next, Caroline Kennedy breaking her silence. She waited and she waited. But then on this final night, she decided to speak out, taking on RFK, Jr. before his confirmation hearing, revealing some rather bizarre family truths.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CAROLINE KENNEDY, FORMER U.S. AMBASSADOR: He enjoyed showing off, how he put baby chickens and mice in a blender to feed to his hawks.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Plus, the breaking news. Germany's chancellor, like you, have never heard him before. Coming out today, the chancellor of Germany calling Elon Musk disgusting to our Fred Pleitgen. And Fred's going to tell you exactly what happened and how this exchange happened.
And North Koreans tonight, in their own words, tonight for the first time, explaining what they are doing, fighting for Putin. It's an incredible story. And it's an OUTFRONT exclusive.
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BURNETT: Tonight, Caroline Kennedy speaking out for the first time in a scathing note, calling her cousin RFK, Jr., a, quote, predator, saying President Trump's pick for secretary of health and human services is unfit, perverse and, quote, addicted to attention and power.
Now the letter, which she also read, comes a day before RFK, Jr.'s much anticipated Senate confirmation hearing. Kennedy, reading the letter aloud, urged senators to reject her cousin.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CAROLINE KENNEDY, RFK JR.'S COUSIN: We grew up together. It's no surprise that he keeps birds of prey as pets because Bobby himself is a predator. I watch his younger brothers and cousins follow him down the path of drug addiction. His basement, his garage, his dorm room were always the center of the action where drugs were available, and he enjoyed showing off how he put baby chickens and mice in a blender to feed to his hawks. It was often a perverse scene of despair and violence.
Bobby is addicted to attention and power. Bobby preys on the desperation of parents of sick children, vaccinating his own kids while building a following, hypocritically discouraging other parents from vaccinating theirs.
(END VIDEO CLIP) BURNETT: I mean, it's unbelievably, you know, harsh to hear. The opposition has been fierce, even from Trump's own party, for totally different reasons. A conservative group founded by former Vice President Mike Pence released this new ad tonight.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: A lot of people think that Junior is a conservative. He's not. He's more liberal than anybody running on the Democrat side.
Don't think you're going to vote for him and feel good. He's a radical left Democrat. I'd even take Biden over Junior because our country would last about a year or two longer than it would with Junior. It would collapse almost immediately.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: That was before they joined forces, of course.
OUTFRONT now, the president of that group, Advancing American Freedom, Tim Chapman.
And, Tim, I appreciate your time. So I want to start with your ad. You're putting a lot of money into your own RFK, Jr. messaging tonight. Have you heard any response from Republicans who are deciding whether to confirm him tomorrow, which is actually what president Trump wants them to do?
TIM CHAPMAN, PRESIDENT, ADVANCING AMERICAN FREEDOM: Yeah. Well, thanks for having me on. First, let me just say, I mean, when president Trump is right, he's right.
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And on this one, he called it right there in the video that you just played. He was very clear in that video about RFK, Jr.'s past positions on issues that are important to conservatives now. Yeah, we are hearing from senators and senators, staff and various people around Capitol Hill.
Here's the issue. There are 6 to 12 senators that would like to have a permission structure to vote against this nominee, because they know that there are reasons that they fought for their entire lives. Many of them are pro-life senators.
(CROSSTALK)
BURNETT: Right, I mean, just to get to the core of this, this for -- for many people that you're talking about, this is about abortion, which is actually something where Caroline Kennedy and Democrats would agree with RFK, Jr. 100 percent, right. Your issue is that?
CHAPMAN: Yeah, our issue is abortion. I mean, look, HHS oversees a multibillion dollar budget. It controls abortion policy in the United States. And whatever merits RFK, Jr. brought to the campaign and could potentially bring to the administration, it does not warrant putting him at the top of this particular cabinet agency.
So we would like to see the president get a redo here. And we would like to see pro-life senators tomorrow in the hearing. And on Thursday in the help committee hearing, ask pointed questions about the life issue and get them on the record.
BURNETT: All right. So, you know, I just want to play a little bit more of what Caroline Kennedy had to say today, because obviously she laid out serious concerns about her cousin, which -- which are not the ones that you share.
I mean, not that you're not going to do a double take when you hear someone talk about putting animals in a blender to feed their hawks, right? I mean, I'm sure you're like, wait, what? Like everybody else watching, going, wait, what? What?
Okay. But she also talked about drug addiction and being a predator and some pretty horrific things. But then she said a lot of these transgressions were a long time ago, but he's still not fit.
But I wanted to play something else that she said, here it is.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KENNEDY: That was a long time ago and people can change through his own strength and the many second chances he was given by people who felt sorry for the boy who lost his father. Bobby was able to pull himself out of illness and disease. I admire the discipline that took and the continuing commitment it requires, but siblings and cousins who Bobby encouraged down the path of substance abuse, suffered addiction, illness and death while Bobby has gone on to misrepresent, lie and cheat his way through life.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: So -- so Tim, again, I know your issue with him is really on a topic like abortion. As you've been very clear, where, of course, you and Caroline Kennedy would, would disagree 100 percent, but I'm more curious as to your view as a conservative here on this issue of -- of changing.
Is there such a thing as somebody moving past all of the things that she lays out and deserving of a true second chance? Or if something like this, putting aside your view on abortion?
CHAPMAN: Yeah, of course there is. I mean, look, not -- not even just as a conservative as a human being, I agree with her. I admire that he's gotten past a lot of this stuff I do. I do think that shows character. I think that shows growth.
I also am glad that he's struggling with his position on abortion. He's always been pro-choice, but he's trying to moderate that position. And as a pro-lifer, I welcome converts, but we don't have to have real time discussions about this while he's head of a cabinet agency. Okay? That doesn't mean that he -- that that warrants him being leader of
HHS. So what I would say is I would -- I would encourage people to yes, he deserves attaboys for that. Sure.
But lets put him in some place in the administration where he can focus on what he was really good at in the campaign in terms of bringing some new voters into the coalition and talking about lifestyle issues that are important.
BURNETT: All right. Well, Tim, I appreciate your time. Thank you very much.
CHAPMAN: Thanks for having me.
BURNETT: We'll be watching those hearings tomorrow.
And next, the breaking news, Germany's chancellor tonight going head to head with Elon Musk, taking on Trump's closest ally.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OLAF SCHOLZ, CHANCELLOR OF GERMANY: He is intervening in favor of right wing politicians all over Europe. And this is really disgusting.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Disgusting.
Well, China now mocking U.S. tech giants for losing the A.I. game after a little known Chinese startup turned the A.I. world upside down. "Shark Tank's" Kevin O'Leary with a serious warning about that, next.
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BURNETT: Breaking news, disgusting. That is the word used tonight by Germany's Chancellor Olaf Scholz, about Elon Musk exclusively to Fred Pleitgen. It's a remarkable moment.
I mean, this is a major U.S. ally, the leader of a country going on the record to call out Elon Musk, who is now glued to President Trump's side and call him disgusting. It comes as Musk is under intense scrutiny for supporting Germanys far right AFD party, which includes members who have been convicted or convicted of using Nazi rhetoric.
So, Fred is OUTFRONT in Berlin tonight.
And, Fred, this is incredible just watching this. I mean, this jaw dropping moment, this exchange that you have with the chancellor of Germany. So what more did he tell you?
FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, Erin, it's remarkable in many ways. We caught up with Olaf Scholz, the chancellor of Germany, on the sidelines of a campaign event that he had here in Berlin.
And, of course, Elon Musk has been attacking Olaf Scholz left, right and center. He's called him incompetent. But then at an event for the far right AFD here in Germany this weekend, he also said that Germans need to get over what he called the historic guilt of the Holocaust.
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Now, that's definitely not something that you joke around or take lightly. Here in Germany, of course, the Holocaust is something that's still ever present dealing with the Holocaust is still ever present here in the society as well. And so, Olaf Scholz actually got really emotional when I asked him about how Elon Musk has been inserting himself into Germany's political process.
Here's what he said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PLEITGEN: He is openly advocating for the AFD. He has said that Germany needs to get over its historic guilt for the Holocaust, and he's attacked you personally. Are you going to raise this with Donald Trump?
SCHOLZ: I disagree completely with Elon Musk and what he's doing. What is new is that he is intervening in favor of right wing politicians all over Europe. And this is really disgusting. And I'm absolutely critical about what Elon Musk said about the history of Germany.
This is the week where we are remembering the freeing of the last people in the concentration camp of Auschwitz, and I'm absolutely clear there is a responsibility of Germany that will continue to be a responsibility. We are very happy about the United States that freed our country and helped us to become a democracy again. And this is why I'm so angry about Elon Musk intervening for the far right. And Elon Musk also not acting adequate to this killing of so many Jews and other people in Europe done by Germans in the past.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PLEITGEN: So that was Olaf Scholz there speaking to me earlier tonight. And he really made a point of coming out and speaking to us and making those points, Erin. And certainly, he's not alone.
There's also politicians from other German political parties who have made the same points as well. Also, members of society. There were German historians, Erin, who also came out and said Elon Musk simply doesn't know what he's talking about. And even Germanys ambassador to Israel says it's clear that Elon Musk does not understand Germanys history -- Erin.
BURNETT: Fred, thank you very much.
Really incredible conversation there that Fred had.
Harry Enten is here with me now. I mean, Harry, this is huge world news. You have the chancellor of
Europe talk about Elon Musk and his support of far right wing politicians, as this is really disgusting. And that is why I'm so angry about Elon Musk intervening for the far right and Elon Musk acting inadequate to this killing of so many Jews.
I mean, these are unbelievable comments to actually think that these are happening, you know, on the international sphere, it is obviously huge news. But he is not speaking into a -- a void.
HARRY ENTEN, CNN SENIOR DATA REPORTER: No.
BURNETT: He is speaking out into a world where Musk's standing has changed, right? I mean, tell me something I don't know.
ENTEN: I'll tell you something you don't know. Elon Musk isn't just pissing off Germans. He's pissing off Americans, too. You can see this in his net favorability rating.
You know, once upon a time, Elon Musk was pretty well-liked nationally in the United States. You know, plus 29 points back in 2016, by the eve of the 2024 election, he was down to a minus three. And now of January 2025, he's down to -13. That's going in the wrong direction.
He's falling down the mountain like I do when I try and ski. He is, at this particular point, not a popular man, neither in Germany and certainly not in the United States.
BURNETT: Well, that's a precipitous change, too.
ENTEN: Yes.
BURNETT: Okay, so then, you know, he's always with Trump. Yeah. Now let's just talk about you see, such a precipitous decline for Musk. Is that related to Trump in any way? I mean, how do -- how do their popularity measures line up?
ENTEN: Donald Trump is a more popular guy than Elon Musk is. That's the bottom line. Again, you look at that net favorable rating. You see Donald Trump hanging right around that zero mark. You see Elon Musk there with a -13. If anything, Musk is pulling Trump down, not the other way around. With Trump pulling Musk down, it's Musk who's actually potentially someone who can make Trump less well liked in this country.
BURNETT: Now, I know personally of people who have gotten rid of their Teslas because of Elon Musk, but that is seems to be at least very much the exception, not the rule, right?
ENTEN: Right.
BURNETT: People say that not many people actually do it. I guess the real question is, is this impacting business?
ENTEN: I don't think it's helping business, because if you look at the global deliveries of Teslas, what you see is you had real growth in 2022 and 2023. Look for the --
BURNETT: Outstanding in 2023.
ENTEN: Fantastic. But in 2024, for the first time in a very long time, in fact, there was a drop -- a drop year over year. So look, this isn't helping Elon Musk. There are a lot of things going on in the car business, but this relationship ain't working for him.
BURNETT: Well, it just came out on a day where, you know, GM and Ford were, you know, actually looking pretty -- pretty sparkly.
ENTEN: Pretty sparkly. They ain't looking so sparkly.
BURNETT: All right. Thank you very much.
And next, China ridiculing the U.S. as their new A.I. app blows away the U.S. competition. So okay, we tested it. If you ask it a tough question about China, what does it say?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
IVAN WATSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: As Chinese leader Xi Jinping ever made a mistake? I am sorry, I cannot answer that question.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[19:40:04]
BURNETT: Wow.
And an OUTFRONT exclusive tonight, North Korean soldiers for the first time explaining their role in Putin's war against Ukraine. It's an exclusive.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BURNETT: Tonight. China mocking the U.S. after its little known A.I. startup shook Silicon Valley and the world, wiping out $1 trillion in U.S. stock market in one day. It killed Nvidia yesterday. There are some of the trending posts on Chinese social media.
DeepSeek makes Meta panic. DeepSeek overturns the U.S. stocks overnight.
The Chinese startup claims that it made a chatbot that rivals American models at a small fraction of the cost.
[19:45:05]
Marc Andreessen calling it a Sputnik moment.
But there are clear differences when the app gets questions about China, right. We talk about truth and accountability and what are these things really do? Well, here's just a stark example. Watch this from our own Ivan Watson. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WATSON: Has Chinese leader Xi Jinping ever made a mistake?
I am sorry I cannot answer that question.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Okay, well, any sane person could answer that.
Xi Jinping, hopefully, in his heart of hearts, could answer that.
So we asked the same question to American made ChatGPT, and we got a long answer. It noted COVID, lockdowns, unemployment rate, human rights concerns, all sorts of things on mistakes made by Xi Jinping.
OUTFRONT now, Kevin O'Leary, chairman of O'Leary Ventures, one of the sharks on the hit television show "Shark Tank".
And I'm so happy that you're here so we can talk together.
Okay, so when you look at DeepSeek, which deep, deep, DeepSeek, sorry, DeepSeek seek. It's -- okay. It's something way bigger than a $6 million app.
I mean, you're saying, actually, when you look through the prism of this, in a sense, the U.S. is already at war with China and DeepSeek is really on the front line of it.
KEVIN O'LEARY, CHAIRMAN OF O'LEARY VENTURE: Well, let's just take the premise that they built it with an old computer with $6 million. I call B.S. on that. What they did is they ripped off 50,000 or 60,000 chips from Nvidia in the black market somewhere. And basically this is a state sponsored enterprise, and they've done something very smart. Listen, I'm going to give them credit.
They've basically built a free app for you that you can download. And then it scrapes all your emails. So if you're -- if you're the -- if you're the supreme leader and you think that TikTok is going to go dark and you're losing your number one access to Americans information, why not just leak out something like this?
BURNETT: It's like a Trojan horse.
O'LEARY: It's -- and they've done this with other apps as well. While we're going through this debate over the next 68 days, as the fate of TikTok, they've got Lemon8, which is owned by ByteDance. They've got another one called Mao's little red book. And these things --
BURNETT: Right. I mean, Mao's little red book is hardly trying to disguise what.
O'LEARY: This is -- this is on a Chinese server. And so the idea I think you would do this if you're -- if you want to have other lifeboats as you think your main TikTok is sinking.
BURNETT: Right.
O'LEARY: But there's a much bigger issue here. If you don't think were in an economic war with China, you would be wrong. If you don't think we're in a race on technology, you would be wrong. If you don't think were competing to become the worlds largest economy, that's what they're trying to do.
If you think, do you think, Erin, they would allow us to create an app in China where the American servers sitting here, the Chinese downloaded and we scraped their emails. There's not a chance in hell they would let us do that. So why are we letting them do that here?
The law that we created to deal with TikTok is the same law that could stamp this thing out. This is taking Americans information for the benefit of the supreme leader. It's spyware all over again.
BURNETT: Right. And you use, you know, you say an economic war, an A.I. war. It's not a military war, hopefully ever, but certainly not yet. But that you've got front lines established.
O'LEARY: If you want to be the supreme country and you want to control militarily, you need the best A.I. for defense.
BURNETT: Right.
O'LEARY: And there is no question about that. So we have to make sure that we fund our A.I. development for defending North America and our principles of democracy. This is not a democratic product. You can't get any information about the supreme leader. You just saw that guy try. The supreme leader is supreme.
The bot knows nothing about him other than he's absolutely fantastic. And that's the way it should be if you're supreme.
BURNETT: All right, so you mentioned TikTok. You've got that offer to buy it for $20 billion. You've been looking under the hood more. Microsoft -- Trump says Microsoft's in there. You know he's -- he wants to spark a bidding war.
How set on winning this are you as you look under the hood, are you still gung-ho?
O'LEARY: Let me make a statement. I think we should all think about, regardless of who's going to buy it. There is no scenario for any buyer that can take the existing algorithm and manage it in the United States. That is not allowed by the law of any iteration of the act of Congress or the decision by the Supreme Court.
So who's ever thinking of buying it has to have a new solution to where the American data is maintained. So, obviously, we have a solution that says we're not buying the algorithm because we know we can't. So we're talking to Oracle as everybody that's interested in it is because they're hosting it right now. There's 5 million lines of Chinese code.
BURNETT: I got to ask you one more thing before you go because you're half Canadian, right?
O'LEARY: And half American.
BURNETT: Half Canadian. I mean, you know, you're half-half, but whole --
O'LEARY: My family -- but I look at it, my -- my kids are born in Boston. They're -- they grew up in -- I feel like I'm a citizen of both countries.
BURNETT: Okay, okay. Well, you know, don't tell that to Donald Trump.
Okay. But in all seriousness, in the context here -- you know, Canada, the 51st state and all these comments he makes about it.
[19:50:06]
So, Google's made this decision to update the Gulf of Mexico to the Gulf of America.
O'LEARY: Right.
BURNETT: Now they say they've done that before. Now when you do it before and its Denali McKinley, it's on U.S. soil, American. You know, the American president issues an executive order. Fine.
The Gulf of Mexico is international waters. There's a whole international thing that deals with that. You know, we all, you know, it's more complex. Persian Gulf, Arabian Gulf. Okay.
Does -- does Trump changing this name and Google going along with it as, as they have, and they're explaining their move, but does any of this make you squeamish? Any of this, you know, sort of taking it? I mean, I know it can be silly, but sometimes things like names matter a lot.
O'LEARY: No, if I'm -- if I'm Google and my policy is to take government issued data and put it into my mapping product, I'm not going to change my policy just because Trump's decided to rename this gulf, Gulf of America. But when I look the same gulf up when I'm in the UAE or Britain, it's going to say Gulf of Mexico because they haven't changed their policy over there in terms of what they name these oceans.
So it makes sense to me. I don't think its that controversial. I think, you know, if people don't understand Trump after 12 years, they're never going to understand Trump. You got to separate the noise from the signal. The signal is important. The noise is bombastic, interesting.
BURNETT: All right. Well, Kevin, it's great to see you.
O'LEARY: Thank you.
BURNETT: All right. And an OUTFRONT exclusive next, for the first time, we're going to take you inside what the North Korean soldiers on the ground there are thinking, what they're seeing because they're actually talking to us. And that's right after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:55:45]
BURNETT: Tonight, an OUTFRONT exclusive, disturbing and graphic new images of a North Korean soldier setting off a grenade under his face as he fights alongside Russians in Ukraine. He blew himself up to avoid capture. Just think about that.
Nearly 12,000 North Korean soldiers are fighting as part of Kim Jong- un's alliance with Vladimir Putin, and CNN has gained extraordinary and rare access as North Korean soldiers, in their own words, reveal their brutal and sometimes suicidal tactics.
Nick Paton Walsh is here tonight with this exclusive story. You will see first here, OUTFRONT.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
NICK PATON WALSH, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): These are the first images on the ground of the capture of North Korean troops by Ukraine. The soldier is injured, can hardly walk but they spirit him away. Russian shelling intensifies to prevent capture.
A wild prize pulled through their wires here from brutal fighting in Russia's Kursk region against a radicalized, near suicidal enemy but one who'd never seen drones in war before. The special operations forces who fought them told us.
"POKEMON", GROUP COMMANDER, UKRAINIAN SPECIAL OPERATIONS FORCES (from captions): They are all young, fresh and hardy. But they're only prepared for the realities of an Eighties war. Despite all attempts to call them to surrender they continue to fight.
WALSH: There's a unique challenge here. Ukraine wants to take captives but the North Koreans seem to prefer to die. They shoot one here in caution. In the distressing images that follow, they pull one injured Korean's leg, then realize he has a grenade he detonates under his chin.
His last words were to scream North Korean leader Kim Jong-un's name, South Korean officials say.
We meet the Ukrainians who show us the faked Russian military papers he was carrying, suggesting he was from Russia's Far East and his military radio codes. Another paper, handwritten pledges of brainwashed courage.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (from captions): The hammer of death to the unknown and the puppet trash is not far off. We wield the powerful force that makes them tremble in fear. World, watch closely.
WALSH: These notes from a soldier killed, really a snapshot of the mindset inside the hermit kingdom. Declarations of loyalty, even tactics on how to fight Ukrainian drones. And also the suggestion that their presence here is about helping North Korea prepare for war.
It's a remarkable insight but also a reminder of how this biggest land war in Europe since the '40s is becoming more global.
But also a glimpse of the fear they live under, how they inform on each other. Notes from an officer writing a critique of his fellow soldiers.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (from captions): He engaged in a unimaginable disgraceful act by stealing supplies. (Another soldier) failed to uphold the Supreme Commander's dignity and placed his personal interest above all.
WALSH: Ukrainians film themselves taking DNA samples from the dead, which they say proved these were Korean. Ukraine says up to a third of the 12,000 here are already dead or injured and more are coming.
Amur shows us the newish AK-12 rifle and backpack Russia gave the North Koreans. They are over-laden with ammo, he says but sometimes no body armor or warm clothes and minimal water.
AMUR, COMPANY COMMANDER, UKRAINIAN SPECIAL OPERATIONS FORCES (from captions): We have seen cases when fighters from North Korea ran without body armor. They often don't wear helmets which we find strange as well. They're very maneuverable, they run and move very quickly. They're hard to catch, especially with a drone.
WALSH: This thermal drone video shows that speed of attack. Below are seven Ukrainians in a trench facing 130 North Koreans above, who race at them and then try to flank them. Many died here but they seem to be learning.
BANDIT, BATTALLION COMMANDER, UKRAINIAN SPECIAL OPERATIONS FORCES (from captions): They have a plan of what to do if they are attacked by a drone. It's one person who takes the hit. Two or three people stand on the side and shoot directly. It is worth noting that they shoot quite well. This suggests that they were trained.
WALSH: Ready to die, everybody checked for grenades. But not ready for this modern warfare. On a training mission, many won't survive, for a future war not even glimpsed yet.
Nick Paton Walsh, CNN, Sumy, Ukraine.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BURNETT: It's incredible access and reporting by Nick and we're grateful for it.
And thanks so much to all of you.
"AC360" starts now.
